Car repair/replacement advice please!

[juliette]

Hello,
Our only car is Honda Accord 2005 EX, V6, 4-doors, with only 70K miles on it. I am not very skilled or knowledgeable regarding car repairs. I need advice from this community, especially from those who know a lot about cars and car repairs. I have three main questions.
1.   It looks like it is time to replace the timing belt (first time). The car is 14 years old. When I talked to a car mechanic (many years ago) about timing belt replacement, he said to wait until 110K miles. But during an oil change two years ago I was told about the color change of the timing belt (it looked sort of brownish). I was told that I need to replace the timing belt within one year. The price they quoted back then was $1,200. He mentioned that he will have to take out the engine and will replace some other hard to access parts in addition to the timing belt. I would have to leave the car there for one or two days. Should I go with a dealer instead? Honda dealership will provide transportation to/from home. I know that it will be more expensive, but the job sounds like a serious job. I need it to be done right.

2.   I had brake job done last November. More specifically, they “replaced front brake pads and resurfaced front rotors”. While I was driving with closed windows, I could not hear it. But later I discovered the embarrassing head-turning screeching (metal on metal) while breaking. I did not have time to get it checked. The brakes work fine. It is just the noise. I can also hear some very low beeping sound when I break. Maybe it has something to do with the ABS breaks? Could somebody tell me if I should worry about this. Or perhaps it can wait till next oil change. The positive side of this is that pedestrians hear me approach and let me pass.   

3.   Perhaps I should just replace this car with something hybrid or minivan. Can a minivan be hybrid? I heard that once a car is 20 or more years old, it is hard to find parts to repair. I like my car, despite scratches and dents. My relative says that once they start replacing factory-installed parts, taking out an engine for repairs, etc., the car is doomed. Also, I anticipate relocation to a different state within a year (1700 miles). This is when minivan (with a towing package) could be useful.

Your advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Sibley]

1. I would question if the timing belt really needs to be replaced. 2 years ago they told you it would need to be replaced within a year. It's obviously still going. Regarding HOW to replacing the timing belt, do some research. I'm sure you can find something on youtube, etc about what exactly is needed. Yeah, the engine may need to be pulled. Or it may not.

2. If your breaks fail, you could die. Or you could kill someone. Get those checked out by a mechanic you trust.

3. Go look around and see how many 20+ year old cars are on the road. You don't have some obscure vehicle, as far as I know Honda Accords have been around forever. Parts are likely readily accessible. And every car is doomed, just like every human will eventually die.

Look, I don't know much about cars either. But at least I'm not blindly trusting what various people are telling me without doing some research.

[BuddyXL]

The one thing to consider about the timing belt is if that model engine can suffer any damage from a timing belt break?  Years ago most cars would bend a valve (valves) if the belt broke under any RPM but thats not a risk on all cars anymore.  You could go to some of the Honda forums to see what folks are talking about for their year and engine similar to yours.  A car of that age will have A LOT of dicussion posts about people working on them.  $1200 is a lot to spend on a 20 year old engine for the timing belt in my opinion.

What I am getting at is if its not a risk of further engine damage just drive it and don't worry about it and then just fix it if it breaks.  Heck you might even do that anyway and even if it breaks and bends a valve you then just go and use that $1200 towards a new car.

Its a give and take decision its just after working on cars for 30+ years as a hobby, don't let anyone scare you about what MIGHT happen and blur reality.

[juliette]

Thank you very much for your responses! I got scared about your response regarding brakes. So I have an appointment for tomorrow to check them.

[never give up]

I’m no car expert but my understanding of timing belts is that it’s either 100k or ten years. If it has gone fourteen years then I would say get it changed. It is a more complex job than a lot of repairs so there is more involved. Your car isn’t doomed at that age and mileage.

You can get the brakes checked at the same time. You don’t need to go to the dealer if you trust the mechanic you use.

I’m not sure of the 20+ year reference. Your car is only 14 years old so I think this is a non-issue.

Edit: sorry just seen you have a brake appointment. Great stuff.

[MilesTeg]

Hello,
Our only car is Honda Accord 2005 EX, V6, 4-doors, with only 70K miles on it. I am not very skilled or knowledgeable regarding car repairs. I need advice from this community, especially from those who know a lot about cars and car repairs. I have three main questions.
1.   It looks like it is time to replace the timing belt (first time). The car is 14 years old. When I talked to a car mechanic (many years ago) about timing belt replacement, he said to wait until 110K miles. But during an oil change two years ago I was told about the color change of the timing belt (it looked sort of brownish). I was told that I need to replace the timing belt within one year. The price they quoted back then was $1,200. He mentioned that he will have to take out the engine and will replace some other hard to access parts in addition to the timing belt. I would have to leave the car there for one or two days. Should I go with a dealer instead? Honda dealership will provide transportation to/from home. I know that it will be more expensive, but the job sounds like a serious job. I need it to be done right.

2.   I had brake job done last November. More specifically, they “replaced front brake pads and resurfaced front rotors”. While I was driving with closed windows, I could not hear it. But later I discovered the embarrassing head-turning screeching (metal on metal) while breaking. I did not have time to get it checked. The brakes work fine. It is just the noise. I can also hear some very low beeping sound when I break. Maybe it has something to do with the ABS breaks? Could somebody tell me if I should worry about this. Or perhaps it can wait till next oil change. The positive side of this is that pedestrians hear me approach and let me pass.   

3.   Perhaps I should just replace this car with something hybrid or minivan. Can a minivan be hybrid? I heard that once a car is 20 or more years old, it is hard to find parts to repair. I like my car, despite scratches and dents. My relative says that once they start replacing factory-installed parts, taking out an engine for repairs, etc., the car is doomed. Also, I anticipate relocation to a different state within a year (1700 miles). This is when minivan (with a towing package) could be useful.

Your advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

If your timing belt fails, your engine explodes (not in a fiery ball of death, just in a "this engine is completely and utterly ruined" kind of way). As with most car parts, there is a replacement interval for both mileage and age. Timing belts, even in a low mileage engine degrade over time and need to be replaced.

And, unlike many other parts, they generally either are 100% working or 100% failed so you can't wait for "symptoms" you need to follow the manufacturers service interval.

I can't speak to whether the quoted prices are fair or not. They could be, or might not be. Shop around.

As far as the brakes go: Wise man say "car no go, have inconvenience. car no stop, have emergency"

[Bernard]

I'm a lifelong car guy. My daily driver for the past 20+ years is a 1962 Volvo with about 600K miles on it. Love that car. Since there are no electronics and black boxes that can fail, my average operating costs monthly are equal to two Starbucks Mocha Frappucinos, and of course there is zero depreciation. On the contrary.

I also own an old Dodge diesel pickup that I bought 18 years ago. It does everything I can hope for, and without complaint. Pretty trouble free all this time. I can sell it for more today than I paid for it 18 years ago. It now has 210K miles on the clock, and given that I only drive it about 3K miles a year, the engine should last another 25 years, give or take. I'll keep these two vehicles 'till I'm too old to drive or die, whatever comes first.

That out of the way, let's focus on your case.
As cars get more modern, they become more complex and more demanding (= expensive) to repair. A 2005 Honda with low miles is a fantastic car to own. It will last another trouble free 180,000 miles if you take care of it. The only reason to get rid of it is if you can't impress the neighbors anymore, if you care about such a thing.

Yes, the timing belt on the V6 is a b*tch to change, and because that's the case, you'll also change the chain tensioner and water pump while you're in there. The quoted price is a bit on the high side, but not ridiculously so. But if you can upgrade to a modern hybrid-powered (super complex = insanely expensive to repair) minivan for not much more than $1,100, go for it. Otherwise, invest the $1,100 and look forward to another decade or two of trouble free Honda motoring. Beats spending $5K on a new battery pack for that spiffy hybrid, yes?

Looks like you need some anti-squeek paste on the brake calipers. Costs about $12 and the guy who did the brake job should put it on, free of charge. If he refuses, find another mechanic. There are tons of those on Craigslist who will moonlight for $30 an hour. Cash is king.

Cheers!

[Syonyk]

I also own an old Dodge diesel pickup that I bought 18 years ago. It does everything I can hope for, and without complaint. Pretty trouble free all this time. I can sell it for more today than I paid for it 18 years ago. It now has 210K miles on the clock, and given that I only drive it about 3K miles a year, the engine should last another 25 years, give or take. I'll keep these two vehicles 'till I'm too old to drive or die, whatever comes first.

My truck is the same way - a '97 Ford F350, couple thousand miles/yr, 110k miles or so on a 7.3 Powerstroke.  I intend to keep that truck an awful long while, and if anything the value is going up over time as I don't put many miles on.

=====

As for the OP, a timing belt is one of very few maintenance items I suggest people change on schedule - unless you know it's a non-interference engine, and are willing and able to replace it on the side of the road.  Old EA82 Subaru?  Pull the timing covers, toss a spare set of belts and a flashlight in the back, run it to failure.  Anything interference?  Replace the belt on schedule, because it will do catastrophic damage when it fails.  They don't fail at idle when things might survive - they fail under stress, so high RPM, and at that point the engine is trash.

[use2betrix]

We bought a car and were in your almost exact situation 6 years ago.

6 years ago we bought a 1999 Toyota Camry with 88k miles. We immediately did the timing belt ($1000). Since then we’ve also done struts, brakes, tires, transmission fluid, and most all other “general maintenance” items that need to be done on a 20 year old car. Our actual “repairs” has been pretty minimal, most notably a steering issue that was around $500-$600.

Our car just rolled over 150k miles a week or two ago. You are going to need to replace quite a few “maintenance” items over the next few years, many of which I listed above. Most of those are things that need to be replaced every 100k miles or so on any car, and should then last another 100k.

I would suggest keeping up with the maintenance items needed and driving the car. Unless you frequently need the more capacity, you can easily and cheaply rent a u-haul, Home Depot truck, etc.

[chemistk]

Your situation is a lot less "dire" than your OP makes it out to be.

First off, shed your fears and stop listening to everyone's preconceived (and erroneous) notions about the safety, reliability, and the ability to repair an older car. Those fears that most people spout have long, long, long been rectified by the reliability of cars of the past 25 years. You can safely drive your Honda for another 20 years and 1) be confident in its safety and reliability and 2) easily find replacement parts everywhere.

Now, about these timing belts: the short story is that you should pay whatever that shop is asking to replace the belt, and with it have them replace your water pump (some of them don't). In general, if your vehicle has a timing belt and especially if it's an interference (if the belt snaps your engine is toast) engine, you should absolutely adhere to the conservative side of the belt replacement schedule. If you vehicle has a timing belt but is non-interference (you'll lose all power but your engine will most likely be fine), you can choose to play it a little more fast & loose with replacement intervals. If your vehicle has a timing chain (your Honda doesn't), usually replacement isn't necessary but it's always important to follow the manufacturer recommendations.

That Honda V6 that you're rocking appears, in some form or derivation, in many, manyl Honda & Acura V6 vehicles manufactured since the late 90's. It is well known and well documented that these engines should ABSOLUTELY have their timing belts replaced around the 100k mile mark, and in cases like yours, after the belt begins to show signs of wear. Yours is not an uncommon maintenance item and neither the independent shop nor the dealer are trying to fleece you. The cost you quoted is par for the course for replacement.

[ericrugiero]

First of all, a Honda Accord is a great car that is well known for reliability.  If you maintain it there is still a ton of life left in that vehicle.  They are common cars so parts shouldn't be hard to find for a while.  Replacing parts doesn't mean the car is on it's last legs.  Also, don't upgrade to a different vehicle just for a one time event (like moving in a few months).  Rent a moving truck or whatever you need at that point. 

Brakes are the first thing I would get checked out.  If those fail it's a huge deal.  Most likely it's not anything major but you don't want to take a chance on them. 

Your car does have an "interference engine" which means if the piston and valves don't move in sequence they can hit each other and ruin the engine.  That will happen if the timing belt breaks which is why you should replace that before it fails.  Ask friends for shop recommendations and call around for pricing.  It is a pretty big job so it won't be much cheaper than what was quoted. 

The cheapest long term solution is almost certainly to do the scheduled maintenance and keep driving your Accord.  You can upgrade but it's not required. 

[doingfine]

These are maintenance items, not even repairs so you should absolutely do them. You should budget for these costs every month as every car you own will need this kind of work.

Quoted price for the timing belt seems reasonable.

[zolotiyeruki]

I own a 2006 Honda Odyssey, which has a similar V6 to your Accord.  I replaced the timing belt a year and a half ago, and I do almost all my own car repair.  Here's what I can tell you:

1) Yes, you'll want to go ahead with the timing belt change.  You have an interference engine, which means if the timing belt breaks, it'll wreck your engine.  $1,200 is on the high side, yes.  The engine absolutely does NOT need to be removed in order to do it, and either you misunderstood your mechanic, or he's taking you for a ride.  It is definitely worth the extra few bucks to replace the water pump and timing belt tensioner at the same time, as it adds very little labor.

2) You're already on top of this one.

3) There's one hybrid minivan on the market that I'm aware of:  The Chrysler Pacifica.  No, it is not hard to find parts for older cars.  I've replaced several things on our '06 Odyssey (now with almost 180k miles!), and I have no issue finding parts for my '95 Toyota Corolla.  Many mechanics will only use OEM parts (and the reasons may or may not be justified, depending on the part), in which case parts will gradually become less available, but your Accord is nowhere near old enough to be affected by that.

Last thoughts:  You're driving about 5,000 miles/year on a car renowned for its reliability.  As long as you keep up on the maintenance (and it sounds like you are!), that car will last you basically forever.  Many people get to the 80-100k mile mark and get spooked by a bunch of maintenance items coming up at once (transmission fluid, antifreeze, brakes, tires, timing belts, air filters, battery, maybe shocks, etc).  It's important to realize that once you get past this "maintenance hump," the costs will revert back to just your normal fluid changes, and the car will run just fine until the next hump.  In my experience, that's around the 175-200k mile point, when the timing belt needs to be done again. 

doingfine is right--these are all maintenance items, and need to be done at some point on all cars.  Don't be intimidated when a few of them happen to coincide!

...or if you're still not convinced, maybe I can buy it from you! :D

[theglidd]

I'm an avid car DIYer. I actually just did a timing belt job on our 2005 honda.

1. Get the timing belt done. Should be around 1000 bucks plus or minus depending on location. Ensure they include belt (and other drive belts), water pump, tensioner, (maybe pulleys depending on condition)

2. Just get the brakes checked out. If they were just replaced it's likely i minor issue with something rubbing.

[Kem]

Great car with low miles!  i take my 2002 Accord to a single bay mechanic.  He is fully certified, all work and parts are warrantied, etc... and the cost is a FRACTION of the bigger fleecers.

That engine should have the timing belt & tensioner, water pump, and thermostat replaced on a fixed schedule.  I do every 75K.   The last time cost less than $500.  I would also replace ALL the fluids every 75K/5 years (brakes should be flushed, the rest just drained).

Maintenance (other than oil changes & washing) averages to less than $50/month

•   222K 2019.05 1AAuto Distributor (Hitachi D4T97-03)
•   222K 2019.05 Moog Outer tie rods & Central Auto Repair Alignment, & Pure Silicon Wiper Blades
•   220K 2019.02 Tiny Oil Change.   
•   215K 2018.09 Tiny PGM-FI / Main Injection Relay
•   215K 2018.06 Tiny Oil Change.   SRS light code indicates that Drivers side seat belt buckle switch is faulty.  A bit of rubbing alcohol cleaned and working again.
•   213K 2018.06 Tiny Front Left Wheel Bearing.  Both CV Axles.
•   210K 2018.03 Tiny FRONT Moog Stabilizer End Link, Moog Sway Bar Bushings, and KYB Shocks/Strut-Plus
•   210K 2018.03 Tiny Alignments, Oil Change, Oil pan Gasket
•   210K 2018.03 REAR Moog Stabilizer End Link, Moog Sway Bar Bushings, and KYB Shocks/Strut-Plus
•   207K 2017.09 HeadlightsDepot DS-HD412-B1WHA (H3 low beam, H1 high beam)
•   207K 2017.09 Tiny Oil & Filter
•   203K 2017.05 Spare Tire replacement (was no longer holding 60psi, never used)
•   202K 2017.04 Tiny Power Steering Flush, Oil & Filter
•   200K 2017.02 Front Brake Calipers, Pads (Akimbo Euro), Rotors (SP-Performance Diamond ZRC), Hoses (Russell)
•   198K 2016.12 Tiny Transmission: Flywheel, Clutch Disk, Pressure Plate, Throw Out Bearing, Master & Slave Cylinders, Flush with Synthetic.  Front Lower Ball Joints
•   197K 2016.12 Tiny Front Wheel Bearings, Weld Catalytic Convertor heat shield (nut cracked)
•   197K 2016.12 Rear Wheel Bearings, Brake Calipers, Pads (Akimbo Euro), Rotors (Hawk), Hoses (Russell)
•   197K 2016.11 Tirebarn Pirelli - Cinturato P7 A/S Plus 215/45R17 
•   195K 2016.08 Oil & Filter, Brake Flush, OEM Spark plug, wires, distributor cap, rotor, PCV valve.
•   191K 2016.03 Oil & Filter
•   191K 2016.03 Front Right Upper Control Arm & Front Right Upper Ball Joint
•   191K 2016.02 Honda Dealer Recall R54 (A/S Drivers Airbag Inflator)
•   191K 2016.01 Duralast Gold Battery
•   186K 2015.03 Rear Brakes OEM Rotors & Pads, Rear Left Caliper, Rear Left Bearing
•   181K 2014.07 Timing Belt, Water Pump, Serpentine Belts, Cooling System Flush
•   180K 2014.05 Tires 215/45ZR-17 91W
•   178K 2014.03 Front Brake OEM Pads
•   135K 2010.02 Tires 215/45R-17XL 91H BSW & Wheels (17x7). 
•   105K 2007.07 Timing Belt, Water Pump, Serpentine Belts, Cooling System Flush

[juliette]

Thank you very much for your responses. This is very helpful. I had both rear breaks replaced yesterday for $175. Rear breaks caused the screeching sound. The mechanic told me that there should be no break work done for a very long time. I am currently waiting for an estimate for the timing belt replacement. I hope to have this done next week. 

I want to keep this car for another 15-20 years. Your comments helped me to decide. My son is 8 years old. In about 8 to 10 years we will have to buy a used car for him anyway. I might decide to buy a second car or van at some point. It would have to be hybrid, something I could charge at home using a regular electical outlet. I want to save money on gas. Do hybrids eat a lot of electicity (while charging)? And what happens to the gas in the tank if I just keep running on battery? Isn't it true that gas can spoil if not used for two weeks or more?   

[BudgetSlasher]

1) A quick google indicates says that the time belt is scheduled to be replaced at 100,000 miles OR 10 years. Some engines can tolerate a timing belt failure and others are destroyed (pistons slam into valves) in either case it is not ideal for the engine. I would say it is probably well past time for this routine maintenance. I am not familiar with the 2005 accord V6 to know if it really requires an engine out service. But, it is standard practice to parts (like the water pump) that are located behind the timing belt. The thought is they are inexpensive parts and the majority of the labor is already done.

2) The brake behavior you describe is not normal. I would have it checked out. It could be something broken or it could be the wear indicator for the rear brakes (that you didn't have replaced).

3) I would not worry about parts availability for an Accord, even if they no longer have new parts there will be plenty of parts from parts recyclers for decades to come.  It is likely that many of the parts in your car where used in multiple cars over many years and are well stocked both new and in junk yards. Even if Honda no longer makes or supplies them the market is big enough that someone will find a way to fill the need. I would not worry about this if or until you actually encounter this problem.

[Just Joe]

Some great responses here. I'm a long time multiple Honda owner.

Call up a Honda dealer and ask what they would charge for a water pump, tensioner and timing belt replacement. They will naturally try to sell you a ton of other services but tell them you have a limited budget (true or not) and that this is all you can afford right now. This is simply your way of getting the boiled down price for the maintenance without them layering in a ton of other stuff. If you have several Honda dealers in your area, do some cost comparison between them.

I use Majestic Honda online to look at OEM part prices. Usually cheaper than my local dealer. Sometimes the cost of the OEM parts online will be similar to aftermarket prices from places like Autozone. I prefer the OEM parts. Brake pads for example are sometimes thicker (longer lasting) than the generic aftermarket parts. That said I recently bought aftermarket brake rotors for a nice price via Amazon.

The simplified timing bent process: a few plastic covers need to be removed. A jack is placed under the engine and one of the engine mounts is removed. Then the engine is rolled to a timing mark using a wrench. Then the tension on the belt is released, the belt slipped off, the water pump removed (bunch of small bolts), the tensioner replaced (one bolt), and then it is all reassembled. I've done this task many times on my timing belt cars - about 6-8 times on Honda products. It is not a fun task but with some experience is not a difficult task.

It is a necessary task though b/c if the belt breaks or the belt teeth break off, the cams and the crankshaft will go out of timing causing the pistons to collide with the open valves. It ruins the engine and it won't be economical to replace the engine for you paying for labor.

A shadetree mechanic could then take the car as a labor of love and replace the engine with one from a JDM importer or a junkyard and get many, many more miles out of the car if they can get the car cheap enough from you once the damage is done. The valves and the pistons do this very choreographed dance where the valves close at the split second moment when the pistons rise to the top of the cylinder. Anything that upsets that (worn or broken belt) leads to instant BANG and $$$$.

I paid the Honda dealer once to do a timing belt for me and it was $350 labor plus their parts. Just looked on RockAuto and they have the whole timing belt kit for prices between $130 and $230. Don't go cheap. A good Honda brand waterpump has lasted me 150K+ miles repeatedly. That's why I like OEM Honda parts. 

Majestic Honda: $70 for the belt, belt tensioner for $100, water pump for $130. The second time you do this maintenance in the future, I would consider replacing the cam seals and crank seals. Seals are cheap, good insurance. Go ahead and replace the alternator and a/c belt too as they need to be removed to do the timing belt.

Your squealing brakes are probably just at the end of the brake pads' life. Disc brake pads have a bent metal tab that hangs off of one end and rubs the brake rotor when the pads get worn out. It is supposed to be irritating to you so that you know that you need new pads. It is a dead simple task. Buy quality pads (online Honda OEM is my preference) and replace them. If the steering wheel is shaking when you try to stop - especially when the brakes are hot - then go ahead and replace the brake rotors. I used "Concentric" brand recently with excellent results. Don't cheap out on "whitebox" generic parts. The cheap rotors don't last. They warp in a matter of months in my experience.

The timing belt replacement and brake replacement is dead simple for an experienced mechanic. $1200 sounds really expensive. I'd shop around. I do 100% of my own maintenance and avoid the franchise repair shops. That said I have used some Mom and Pop shops with good value. Does your area have any import shops?

Whether you should just replace the car is up to you. The maintenance cost will be equal to just a few payments on something newer. I personally don't think you'll save enough fuel to really justify something newer than your tried and true Accord - assuming the Accord is in good shape and only requires maintenance. If it is rusty then you might have good reason to replace it. We have driven various Hondas over 300,000 miles with little trouble beyond maintenance.

[Bernard]

Thank you very much for your responses. This is very helpful. I had both rear breaks [brakes] replaced yesterday for $175. Rear breaks [brakes] caused the screeching sound. The mechanic told me that there should be no break work done for a very long time. I am currently waiting for an estimate for the timing belt replacement. I hope to have this done next week. 

I want to keep this car for another 15-20 years. Your comments helped me to decide. My son is 8 years old. In about 8 to 10 years we will have to buy a used car for him anyway. I might decide to buy a second car or van at some point. It would have to be hybrid, something I could charge at home using a regular electical outlet. I want to save money on gas. Do hybrids eat a lot of electicity (while charging)? And what happens to the gas in the tank if I just keep running on battery? Isn't it true that gas can spoil if not used for two weeks or more?

Glad that the rear brake job solved the problem. Yes, they should be good for a very long time.
Gasoline shows signs of varnishing after about a year. This can be prevented by using an additive.
Let me explain what a hybrid is.
A hybrid has a gasoline engine, just like your current Honda. It also has an electric engine. And on top of it, it has a computer system that controls how these two engines work together. So you have potentially 3 times the issues a gasoline or Diesel car has. What every electric car and hybrid car needs is a battery pack at some point. They used to be insanely expensive, but prices have come down. Still, a new battery pack for your hybrid will cost as much as a good used car for junior.

[BicycleB]

If you drive this car until Junior has a driver's license, the costs of various options will be clearer then. It's possible a lot more hybrid and electric cars will be around, changing the prices at which the cars are available.

My suggestion is to repair your current vehicle (do the timing belt and all those repairs), then keep going for the next eight years.