Cancer!.. Another reason to be FI

[Exflyboy]

I was watching the new Ken Burns documentary which gave a "state of the nation" type report on where we are in the battle against cancer.

To be honest even though we have made a huge amount of progress we are still barely scratching the surface. We still have only a handful of therapies which are effective and from a radio show I heard back in 1996 cancer was comprised of 246 different diseases.

I did not hear the above statistic in the KB's movie but I did see that cancers mutate (at least 4 times in one case) depending on when it was discovered.. well 246 * 4... you do the math!

One part that struck me is they said "Getting cancer in America can be financially devastating". Despite the fact that now everybody (in theory) should have medical insurance,  I do know from a friend of mine that you have to be very careful to make sure your Dr's proposed course of treatment is covered. In his case his Wife went in with a lump and it was breast cancer. They had the first round of chemo only to get the claim denied by the insurance company.

Bottom line it cost them over $100k to get her back into remission!

I asked him why he didn't get it pre-approved and he told me the last thing on their minds was the cost of the treatment!

I have another friend who has just been diagnosed as terminal.. the only drug they can offer is one of the new fancy drugs which has at best shown a two month life extension expectancy.. for a mere $150k.. No way the insurance is picking that tab up.

Also of note.. 1 in 3 women and 1 in 2 men can expect to have cancer in their lifetimes!

I have seen this tradgegy play out numerous times. A young friend (28 years old two babies) we told by the oncologists not to lose hope and here are all these treatments we can try.

None of them worked and a senior cancer nurse I know told me point blank 6 months before he died his case was incurable.. but he was never told this.

Bottom line is his widow is now financially destitute (had to sell the house) with two little kids to raise..

So make sure you have those colonoscopies, breast exams and prostate exams done, don't smoke, don't be overweight and be lucky!

[Allen]

The book I'm about to recommend (to everyone) sounds honestly like the most depressing, worst book you could ever possibly want to read.

It is however fascinating, a biography of Cancer and our battle with it.  It is excellent and I recommend it.

The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer by Siddhartha Mukherjee

I learned a lot.

For some types of cancer, we have very effective treatments.  For others, you are no better today than you were 4,000 years ago.

[deborah]

To a certain extent cancer is a word - they say that some enormous percentage of men die with prostate cancer - not of it, because you tend to get it late, and it tends to move slowly, so treatment is often worse than just leaving it. We also have marvelous success with some forms - like breast cancer.

But others are a sentence. I'm thinking of pancreatic cancer that a friend died of, with 95% dieing within 5 years. She died in six weeks.

One trouble is that people who are told they only have a short time to live are given such expensive experimental treatments, rather than just accepting that they will die soon. In every case I have seen, the person has died anyway, it has cost a lot, and their remaining time was a drug filled haze of hospital visits rather than the death they actually wanted (not that anyone wants death).

[anon-e-mouse]

We had full insurance and our bills were still about $20,000 for one year of treatment.
Two of her doctors didn't even want to order her mammogram since they assumed she was too young for cancer.
Unfortunately, they were wrong.

Trust me when I say that once your partner has been diagnosed.... money is probably the LAST thought on your mind.

[Exflyboy]

We had full insurance and our bills were still about $20,000 for one year of treatment.
Two of her doctors didn't even want to order her mammogram since they assumed she was too young for cancer.
Unfortunately, they were wrong.

Trust me when I say that once your partner has been diagnosed.... money is probably the LAST thought on your mind.

Very true, and I would not dream of critisisng anyone's choices who got thi most devastating news. In fact one of the Dr's in the film said that it is absolutely a partly financially driven choice.. Does the patient want to spend $150k in order to see the birth of their grandchild, even if the treatment will only give them a couple of months?.. Maybe.

For me I would like to think that I could not financially devastate my Wife in order to give myself another couple of months.

One thing is sure though, if you have $1M liquid net worth then $20k is a lot less financially painful than if your living paycheck to paycheck.

[mustachianteacher]

The book I'm about to recommend (to everyone) sounds honestly like the most depressing, worst book you could ever possibly want to read.

It is however fascinating, a biography of Cancer and our battle with it.  It is excellent and I recommend it.

The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer by Siddhartha Mukherjee

I learned a lot.

For some types of cancer, we have very effective treatments.  For others, you are no better today than you were 4,000 years ago.

The Ken Burns doc is based on the book. I agree -- fantastic book, and I look forward to watching the documentary.

My father-in-law and brother-in-law both passed away from cancer, and if I'm being brutally honest (and not sticking my head in the sand as I would prefer) my husband has a greater-than-50% chance of developing cancer at some point due to a pretty scary family history. A large part of my desire that we retire early is based on that suspicion, so I plan accordingly. (The only reason I say "I" and not "we" is because my husband doesn't want to talk about it at all.) My FIL actually retired early, and he died at 63; had he retired at a more traditional age, he might never have enjoyed much of a retirement at all.

[Sunnymo]

To a certain extent cancer is a word - they say that some enormous percentage of men die with prostate cancer - not of it, because you tend to get it late, and it tends to move slowly, so treatment is often worse than just leaving it. We also have marvelous success with some forms - like breast cancer.

But others are a sentence. I'm thinking of pancreatic cancer that a friend died of, with 95% dieing within 5 years. She died in six weeks.

This may be true but still more men die of prostate cancer than women die breast cancer as far I know.

I have often quoted the 'with than of' statement in relation to prostate cancer. We have seen that in our family with an uncle (married in to the family, not blood related) surviving through (I believe) radiotherapy a few years back. This will be tested again soon as on Wednesday we will find out if my father has it as well. His specialist has told him that there is an 80% likelihood of a positive diagnosis. Due to age he has been regularly screened and we are hopeful that it has been caught early and is well contained. No treatment planned yet, more like 'watch and see' at this stage.

They are in a good position financially and have full health cover so are well positioned should the money be needed. The other key consideration for our family will be my mother. She has severe mobility issues and cannot live solo. Again the financial backing will come in handy for her. My dad retired 21 years ago but through prudent spending and regular side hustles they have roughly the same in their retirement savings as they did on dad's original retirement. I am not being morbid; my mother's issues are long term so there has been planning in place for years.

Pancreatic cancer is vicious; a local mayor was diagnosed with pancreatic, liver, stomach and one other cancer and was gone within 7-8 weeks.

[GetItRight]

A colleague and friend of mine wrote a book about his experience with cancer which I highly recommend. You may walk away a bit more positive about things, I certainly did. http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Lecture-Randy-Pausch/dp/1401391443

[Retired To Win]

We had full insurance and our bills were still about $20,000 for one year of treatment.
Two of her doctors didn't even want to order her mammogram since they assumed she was too young for cancer.
Unfortunately, they were wrong.

Trust me when I say that once your partner has been diagnosed.... money is probably the LAST thought on your mind.

Which is why you have to get as financially ready as possible ahead of time.  And make regular medical checkups part of your life routine.  (I have checkups every 3 months, including bloodwork.)

[PawPrint3520]

We were lucky enough to have insurance that covered all the bills except for our out of pocket maximum, which I think was $3k. My husband was one of only several thousand men per year diagnosed with breast cancer. He followed that up with a prostate cancer diagnosis three months after finishing up his breast cancer treatment. Talk about unlucky. Thankfully we had the insurance and the resources to weather those 18 months of illness (oh,yeah, I forgot to mention he crashed on his bike commute to work and broke his hip right before his first cancer diagnosis).

[Daisy]

One trouble is that people who are told they only have a short time to live are given such expensive experimental treatments, rather than just accepting that they will die soon. In every case I have seen, the person has died anyway, it has cost a lot, and their remaining time was a drug filled haze of hospital visits rather than the death they actually wanted (not that anyone wants death).

This is my thinking as well. If I get a disease so dire as to require expensive and drug-filled treatments, I think I'd say a little prayer and come to terms with my fate. Of course, I am saying this as a healthy 40-ish person. But I really think even if it happened tomorrow, I'd be OK with that course. I don't have children and have lived a wonderful life.

I've seen others spend a fortune and still not get better and spend the last few moments of their life in constant medical care.

I hope I have the strength to accept death as a normal course of life.

The tough diseases are the ones that are not life critical but life quality damaging such as mobility issues. Then, you are suffering a long time with your disease.

Cancer - another reason to be FI since you may actually get to enjoy some off years before getting old and sick.

[lifejoy]

A colleague and friend of mine wrote a book about his experience with cancer which I highly recommend. You may walk away a bit more positive about things, I certainly did. http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Lecture-Randy-Pausch/dp/1401391443

I am so sorry you lost such an incredible friend. I've seen the Ted talk, and at work we selected his book for our leadership learning reading club :) Fantastic book!

[iwasjustwondering]

The book I'm about to recommend (to everyone) sounds honestly like the most depressing, worst book you could ever possibly want to read.

It is however fascinating, a biography of Cancer and our battle with it.  It is excellent and I recommend it.

The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer by Siddhartha Mukherjee

I learned a lot.

For some types of cancer, we have very effective treatments.  For others, you are no better today than you were 4,000 years ago.

The Ken Burns documentary is based on this book. 

[Unique User]

We'll never be without good insurance.  We had a short period of time with crappy insurance 7 years ago and DH had a major sudden health issue.  I was begging neurologists for an appointment and had been told our insurance wouldn't cover it.  Bottom line was, without insurance you can't even get an appointment.  I had the person at the front desk actually tell me that it could run $10,000 for them to see him and who has that kind of money.  I told her that I did and would pay anything to get my husband in a better place.  Needless to say she didn't believe me and offered me an appointment, reluctantly, 10 months in the future.  What we didn't realize was that if we had gone to the ER and taken things from there it would have been covered.  My hope is that the days of crappy insurance are long gone. 

Last year he was diagnosed with aggressive prostate cancer that had spread to his lymph nodes in his early 50s.  We had an HDHP at work, no questions, everything covered.  Luckily only ended up costing us $10k, total was at least $50k.  I agree that most prostate cancers are benign, my FIL died at 85 with it, but I hope everyone takes those diagnoses in their early 50s seriously. 

[Gone Fishing]

For me I would like to think that I could not financially devastate my Wife in order to give myself another couple of months.

This. 

[MandalayVA]

A colleague and friend of mine wrote a book about his experience with cancer which I highly recommend. You may walk away a bit more positive about things, I certainly did. http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Lecture-Randy-Pausch/dp/1401391443

I read that book.  I hope I face death as gracefully.

I'm fortunate that cancer doesn't run on either side of my family--we tend to stroke out in our eighties--but I know people who did.  It's awful.  Pancreatic cancer is particularly brutal.  A boss of mine literally went from zero to dead three weeks after he was diagnosed.  He was in his fifties, but had a young trophy wife and two little girls.  It was so sad.

[CopperTex]

This is a timely post as my husband just wrapped up chemo about 3 weeks ago. Our deductible is $5000 but so far have been hit with several bills for things that we were told we were covered for and then later told we were not. The whole system is pretty confusing to me. He has also needed mental help, meds, etc. to deal with the anxiety and insomnia he has developed and that is all out of pocket. Overall the experience has taught me that you better have your ass covered for a situation like this financially, especially if you are considering ER. We are fortunate we were so far into the process that the finances haven't been stressful and he has been able to take time off work. Any medical bills will be covered. But I can see how this would be a devastating situation for someone living paycheck to paycheck or someone retiring on 4% with no consideration to a major life event such as this. I don't care how much paleo, vegan, crossfit, smoothies, voodoo, whatever you do, no one is immune to cancer.

[zoltani]

The cost of healthcare in this country is sickening. I honestly think that if my wife or i were diagnosed with cancer we might consider moving back to France. 

[Secretly Saving]

Cancer is the exact reason that I am so focused on FIRE.  Losing so many brings into perspective how little time we have.

[Shane]

If I get a disease so dire as to require expensive and drug-filled treatments, I think I'd say a little prayer and come to terms with my fate. Of course, I am saying this as a healthy 40-ish person. But I really think even if it happened tomorrow, I'd be OK with that course. I've seen others spend a fortune and still not get better and spend the last few moments of their life in constant medical care. I hope I have the strength to accept death as a normal course of life.

This is how I feel too.

Right now, my dad's got lung cancer that's metastasized to his brain. Although the radiation treatments his doctors have prescribed for him have kept him alive, his quality of life has gone downhill significantly since he started accepting treatments.

For me, quality of life is MUCH more important than length. If I died today, I wouldn't have any regrets. I've lived a good life. My wife and daughter would get along without me. I have no interest in spending a bunch of money on chemotherapy and radiation, just so I can get really sick and then end up dying from the cancer anyway.

[rocketpj]

Every time one of these threads comes up in MMM I thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada.

[MrsPete]

For me I would like to think that I could not financially devastate my Wife in order to give myself another couple of months.

Thing is, for every spent-100K-to-live-an-extra-six-months-in-misery case you hear, you also hear about someone like my uncle, who had a very devestating cancer diagnosis, took the expensive treatment, and now 15 years later is still going strong and living healthy.  For him, that expensive treatment was the right choice! 


If you could use a crystal ball to see which ending you'll get, you'd be able to spend more wisely! 

[deborah]

For me I would like to think that I could not financially devastate my Wife in order to give myself another couple of months.

Thing is, for every spent-100K-to-live-an-extra-six-months-in-misery case you hear, you also hear about someone like my uncle, who had a very devestating cancer diagnosis, took the expensive treatment, and now 15 years later is still going strong and living healthy.  For him, that expensive treatment was the right choice! 

Thing is, your uncle is probably only a one-in-ten rather than a one-in-two chance. All people I knew with bad diagnoses are dead - often earlier than predicted.

[Lynne]

I was diagnosed with a really rare form of breast cancer at 31.  I don't drink, I don't smoke, I've always been pretty healthy, and I don't have a strong family history of cancer.  It just can hit you out of the blue.  Genetic lottery, maybe.

I was so grateful for our healthcare system;  it was a little hard, financially, but nowhere near devastating, and I could focus on my health and not my bills (and I had excellent care, too).  I don't know what my chances of recurrence are (see: really rare cancer, sigh), but I don't regret spending a year being sick in exchange for the chance at many more years of health.  There is so much I still want to do with my life.

From an individual perspective, I can see not wanting to go through difficult and expensive treatment when you're unlikely to survive anyway, and you should definitely make the choice that's best for you.  From a societal perspective...if we keep trying to cure bad diagnoses, then maybe someday many of them won't *be* bad diagnoses anymore, but fairly routine and fixable things.  So I think if someone wants to pursue treatment, they should have that opportunity, and without the risk of financial ruination either (but that's the Canadian in me speaking, and getting cancer didn't change my opinion on that one iota).

[geekette]

So much depends on the type and staging, though.  Sometimes it's worth the attempt.  Sometimes, as with a friend who had small children, she reached for every possibility.  Yes, she died, but the information gathered from study she was in, even though it didn't help her, could well have helped those after her. 

Look at the GBM study at Duke!  That cancer is (was?) a death sentence. My father died of it 10 years ago.  Researchers are adding something new to the old slash, burn, and poison treatments.

I've had 5 family members diagnosed with cancer in the past 10 years - 3 lived (bladder, breast, brain), 2 died (lung, brain).  All in the US, and none were bankrupted by treatment, either.

[scrubbyfish]

Every time one of these threads comes up in MMM I thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada.

Yes, we're very, very fortunate to have some coverage for some medical visits, tests, and interventions here. It does save us a tremendous amount!

On the other hand, our system doesn't come near to covering everything, so we too need to be financially prepared for medical stuff. For my son (not cancer, thank god), I've had thousands and thousands in out of pocket medical expenses. Four family members -all of whom have survived shocking cancer diagnoses ("incurable", "terminal", Stage 4 colon in a weak body, etc)- have had heaps in out of pocket costs.

And a big cost in cancer is time off work, which is not covered at all for lots of us (contract workers, self-employed, etc) or covered only partially for many. Cancer itself and cancer treatment can be exhausting, to say the least, so a lot of people lose their financial reserves just getting through that unemployed period.

So, yes to self-insuring any potential disability periods!

[MrsPete]

For me I would like to think that I could not financially devastate my Wife in order to give myself another couple of months.

Thing is, for every spent-100K-to-live-an-extra-six-months-in-misery case you hear, you also hear about someone like my uncle, who had a very devestating cancer diagnosis, took the expensive treatment, and now 15 years later is still going strong and living healthy.  For him, that expensive treatment was the right choice! 

Thing is, your uncle is probably only a one-in-ten rather than a one-in-two chance. All people I knew with bad diagnoses are dead - often earlier than predicted.

Maybe.  I really don't know numbers, but he had cancer of the lymph nodes -- and it was unusual because it was the original cancer, not something spread from elsewhere in the body.  I know I didn't use the right terms there.  Not long ago it used to be lymph nodes meant death, but today I know two people -- my uncle and a casual aquaintance who both had excellent outcomes with lymph node cancer. 

I'd also say that both my uncle and my aquaintance survived because it was caught EARLY, so they had the best possible chance of treatment being effective.

In contrast, my other uncle found out he had colon cancer and was dead literally within a week.  He admitted that he'd known he had some bad signs, and he'd chosen to ignore them.  We all think he knew, but he chose to live with fear and dread rather than face the treatment.  He didn't want the doctor to tell him to stop drinking and smoking.  Also, in that uncle's case, money was a big factor.  He just plain didn't have any. 

[Lynne]

So, yes to self-insuring any potential disability periods!

Absolutely.  I had to pay thousands in out of pocket costs during my cancer treatment, and then there was the lost income.  It's important to have an emergency fund.  Still, I never had to worry about paying hospitals or doctors anything, and I think it's extremely helpful to at least remove that aspect from the equation of what you might need to prepare for.

[scrubbyfish]

Thing is, your uncle is probably only a one-in-ten rather than a one-in-two chance. All people I knew with bad diagnoses are dead - often earlier than predicted.

It's so unknowable... All people I knew (know) with bad diagnoses are alive! One 17 years after his dx of "terminable, incurable brain cancer" with a prognosis of "death within six months, max", and despite his absolutely awful lifestyle. The other two "bad" cases had surprise happy outcomes too. (The fourth was expected to be a-okay and is.)

I probably wouldn't spend a lot of money prolonging my life if I truly expected to die or suffer, but I think I would set aside an official prognosis in my evaluation. I would wrap up the spending based only on my own best sense of what was about to happen.

[deborah]

Certainly the people I knew who had bad diagnoses all had multiple sites - for instance my friend with pancreatic cancer had it in the liver and three other places as well. They said she had 3 months to live, but with treatment she would last 6 months. She died six weeks later, having spent at least part of every day at hospital having various treatments. The treatments stopped her from being able to sort out her finances (which as a single mother she desperately wanted to do).

I would consider cancers that had not spread to other places treatable - no matter what the prognosis.

[Abe]

In general, solid organ cancers that have spread to other organs (with some exceptions) have 5 year survival of 10-20% with chemotherapy and surgery. Half of people will die within 1-2 years despite the best therapy available. Thus the question is what is the worth of those extra years, knowing that the first year after treatment will probably be quite uncomfortable due to side effects of treatment? The major driver of expense with cancer treatment these days are antibodies that are quite specific, have few(er) side effects than conventional chemotherapy, but generally extend life by a few months at most and are extremely expensive.

[agent_clone]

To a certain extent cancer is a word - they say that some enormous percentage of men die with prostate cancer - not of it, because you tend to get it late, and it tends to move slowly, so treatment is often worse than just leaving it. We also have marvelous success with some forms - like breast cancer.

Interestingly apparently there is some evidence that the regular testing of people without symptoms of prostate cancer leads to more death than prostate cancer does in Australia... This is because the method required to test for prostate cancer leads to infection in 1/10 cases, which then can lead to death.  The suggestion is that prior to doing a biopsy the person should have symptoms first rather than the generic screening.

[The Great Dane]

Oh my goodness!  I am literally crying as I read this post.  So much to share, please forgive me as I hope it all makes sense.  I literally found MMM this weekend while bed-ridden after my 4th cycle of chemotherapy. I am 39 years old and was diagnosed with breast cancer over Christmas.  I am a stay at home mom, who had just start my own business in the just a few months before I received the news.  My husband supports a family of 4 on his small salary, and although we incorporate the MMM lifestyle habits, we live in California and so live paycheck to paycheck even with 1 used car, 4 bikes, no tv/cable, don't eat out, don't consume, no iPhones, etc.  Paychecks are for rent, food, credit card, phone.  A cancer diagnosis was the furthest thing from our minds, and I am literally crying as CopperTex posted above " I don't care how much paleo, vegan, crossfit, smoothies, voodoo, whatever you do, no one is immune to cancer."  I am an otherwise completely healthy woman, vegetarian, green smoothie, yoga, woo woo, spiritual, etc.  I am a Life Coach for goodness sakes!  We were just starting to recover financially from the 2008-10 madness, and then this happened.  I have terrible health insurance and there are so many associated costs.  Also, when my husband has to take off work to care for me, he doesn't get paid, so we lose the money we need to live on, in addition to increased costs that we didn't have before like childcare, or outside meals during treatment.  This all happened so fast and these things were mandatory so we started using the credit card again. (We only used the credit card before for basic living expenses like food, etc during 2008 which we are still paying off now).  A friend suggested that I should set up an online donation fund to allow people donate money and share the link with others (https://life.indiegogo.com/fundraisers/danette-s-healing-fund).  I had never heard of it before, but am really thankful that I did because otherwise, I would be trying to pay for all of this on my credit card (about $36k for the year of treatment).  So far I haven't raised much money, so I still need to consider other options.  My father in law died suddenly of a heart attack 3 weeks ago, and now, with my own survival in question, I feel 'emotionally' I will do ANYTHING I can to survive, including financial ruin.  But then while lying in bed this week I realized something. I was so sick from the chemo I couldn't even move, but then, after a week, it passed and now I am up again.  The same will happen for my entire treatment this year if I survive.  It will be a hard year while I am down, but then I will get up again.  And I realized when I get up, I don't want to have $36k more in debt.  That is when I started searching for other options.  And I came across MMM and this community.  I am very new here, and haven't even introduced myself, but saw this post and it immediately hit home for me.  I don't want to hijack this topic, so I will post another topic in the forum, but if you can help me with this, please feel free to message me or reply to my new post.  I am looking for help with the following:
What is any advice to help me avoid dire financial consequences for next year?  Like, should I take out a personal loan, or just keep asking for help with the donation page.  For example, are there any institutions that offer low-interest loans for medical reasons?
This situation has made me more determined than ever to become financially independent, where is the best way to start?  If it is to pay down credit card debt, then I should be avoiding debt as much as I can this year? 
--  This year is all about surviving.  I know nothing is guaranteed, but the fact that my husband just lost his father, I am not about to let him lose his wife and raise our two boys alone.  I will do everything on my end to prevent that, but try to avoid a financial disaster.  I'm just trying to get ahead of it, but not sure if I can.  This group seems pretty great and I am so happy I found you.  I can't wait to get to know all of you and next year celebrate with you as I am cancer free, and the years after that when I am debt free, and making investments and a home owner.

[Cassie]

Thanks so much for including the link to your donation page so I could donate. I have known people that are going through what you are & you are right that so many of the costs are not covered by insurance but incurred none  the less. I have a good friend that was given 6 months to live 14 years ago from stage 4 ovarian cancer. Keep fighting & much love.

[The Great Dane]

Thanks so much for including the link to your donation page so I could donate. I have known people that are going through what you are & you are right that so many of the costs are not covered by insurance but incurred none  the less. I have a good friend that was given 6 months to live 14 years ago from stage 4 ovarian cancer. Keep fighting & much love.

What?!!! You have no idea how much hope this gives me!  THANK YOU!!!  (and thank you deeply for your kindness).  Yes, there are so many costs that people don't even realize.  But I am striving forward now with much more awareness and a determination :-)

[scrubbyfish]

I am 39 years old and was diagnosed with breast cancer over Christmas.

I'm so sorry this is your situation. Very, very hard indeed.

To answer your question, a few ideas:

1. I'm not in the States, but one thing that's come up regularly for people there is to negotiate with hospitals, clinics, etc, to pay less than invoiced. Some people have had terrific reductions by offering a lump, immediate, reduced sum vs the whole thing over time. Etc.

2. Even though you're going through lots already, I would -when you feel up for it- move to the cheapest housing option you can. This can make such a dramatic, positive income on lifestyle, family closeness, available energy, and finances. (But I would make sure that it is still a lovely, homey, comfy place, as that's important in recovery.)

3. For medication, supplements, etc, call the manufacturer directly. Many of them have "compassion" programs that allow them to provide the item at a dramatically reduced cost (even free sometimes). I saw one client have $3000/mo in one medication's cost waived entirely, which was the difference between maintaining her (modest) lifestyle with her husband and young children and becoming homeless. It was, of course, such a relief to her!

4. All of these noted, I wouldn't put too much on yourself about the finances right now. Your family would rather have you alive and relaxed even with a biggish medical debt than worrying about money while you recover.

5. For each expense that you deal with, start a fresh thread on Ask a Mustachian. One thread re: medications, one thread re: hospital/care bills, one thread re: child care during cancer treatment, etc. People may have knowledge or ideas about each aspect.

[The Great Dane]

3. For medication, supplements, etc, call the manufacturer directly. Many of them have "compassion" programs that allow them to provide the item at a dramatically reduced cost (even free sometimes). I saw one client have $3000/mo in one medication's cost waived entirely, which was the difference between maintaining her (modest) lifestyle with her husband and young children and becoming homeless. It was, of course, such a relief to her!

Oh Scrubbyfish, I could kiss you!  This is such a great idea!!!  (all of your ideas are good, but we are already at the lowest housing option and yes, my situation is the same as your friends)  And I will post the separate threads as you suggested.

Thank you!

[scrubbyfish]

Oh Scrubbyfish, I could kiss you!

Lovely! Kiss joyfully received :)   You will find a very caring community here.

[Lynne]

Oh, Danette, I am so sorry to hear that.  Scrubbyfish had some excellent suggestions. The only thing I would add is, do you have someone at your hospital who might be able to help you access assistance?  There was a social worker at the cancer centre here who was very helpful to me and gave me info on the available programs (I did get the cost of my Neulasta injections mostly waived by the manufacturer, since my health plan's drug coverage wasn't enough for that;  sounds to me from your Indiegogo site like you might have been prescribed that one, so do look into that).

Chemo is really hard, especially some days.  Hang in there, and be kind to yourself.  There were times all I could make myself eat was ice cream, obviously not ideal but I just went with it.  All you can do is all you can do.

The forums over at www.breastcancer.org are great too, if you're looking for support or advice from women who are going through the same thing.

[Paul der Krake]

We had full insurance and our bills were still about $20,000 for one year of treatment.
Two of her doctors didn't even want to order her mammogram since they assumed she was too young for cancer.
Unfortunately, they were wrong.

Trust me when I say that once your partner has been diagnosed.... money is probably the LAST thought on your mind.

Please explain to me how this is even possible. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but as someone who's never set foot in a US hospital, I just can't grasp it.  Wouldn't your insurance cover everything after your deductible (which seem to max out around 10k for a family in these ACA days)? Or do you have a plan with coinsurance that isn't capped?

I just don't get it. Do they not tell patients in advance what's covered and what's not? How the !@#$ is it possible?

[The Great Dane]

Thank you Lynne!  Yes, Nuelesta is going to be my first call on Monday morning (and also why I was so excited to learn about that from Scrubbyfish).  Unfortunately, I am not being treated at a hospital or cancer center where they have those programs.  I have contacted a social worker from two of the nearby hospitals and one said she only works with their hospital patients, and the other was not really helpful and I am still waiting on a return call from her.  Thank you for the advice. I am trying.  These last few weeks, I could barely move from the chemo, but had to because my 8 year old was sobbing every night because his grandfather died, and then my husband was away dealing with the funeral and then he comes home and is stressed and freaking out because he hasn't worked in a few weeks, lost that income, his father died, his wife is in bed (and bald) and his son is crying.  My poor husband. It is all too much.  And then my body can't physically move but I still have to care for my family.  These last few weeks I have felt like I was drowning.  I am trying not to get sucked under the weight of it all.  There is no 'safety net' for us.  I am overall a very positive person, but honestly, this last few weeks have shaken me to the core.  This new reality is what is making me more determined to fix my finances, so I won't ever be in this position again.

Hugs to you beautiful soul!  I am so happy to see you on the other side.  "All you can do is all you can do".  Got it!

[Lynne]

I think you have a harder row to hoe than I did, in my child-free and single life, especially with your father-in-law's death happening at the same time.  Hugs!  I think you are a very strong person and you'll get through this.

I did a little Googling on what might be available to you in the U.S. - take a look at the resources listed here:  http://www.northshoreoncology.com/patientassistance.shtml#amgen
(I linked directly to the Neulasta one on that page, but note there are other programs that might be helpful too;  definitely read through the top of that page.)

Looks like the American Cancer Society has a patient navigator service, among other things - http://www.cancer.org/treatment/supportprogramsservices/index .  You might find that helpful if you don't have another such service available to you;  my hospital had a couple of nurse navigators on staff and they were great, though they were more focused on the surgery end of things.

[Lynne]

/compulsive reference librarianing :)  (I'm not even a reference librarian anymore! but old habits die hard.)

[lovesasa]

What is any advice to help me avoid dire financial consequences for next year?  Like, should I take out a personal loan, or just keep asking for help with the donation page.  For example, are there any institutions that offer low-interest loans for medical reasons?

First of all, let me say how sorry I am for all that you and your family are going through. This must be a very difficult time for you, and my heart goes out to all of you.

No one seems to have really addressed this part. I would DEFINITELY look into personal loans - the rates would be significantly better than a credit card, and as others have said, might help you negotiate a lower price if you can pay the hospital up front. It is my understanding that credit cards charge companies 5% so at the absolute minimum they should be able to give you a 5% discount for paying cash.

I would also keep up the indiegogo donation page. Put it in your signature on any forums you are a part of. Definitely research as much online as you can about resources available to people in your situation, check out the links Lynne posted.

Make sure your family and friends are aware of your situation, see if there is anything they can do to help out your husband. Even simple things like bringing him meals or taking the kids to school or other activities (maybe their friends' parents will carpool them) could take a big burden off of him.

[shusherstache]

My parent was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer very suddenly two weeks ago.  Part of the benefit of having a huge slush fund and my house paid off (in December! jeez, it seems so long ago) was the knowledge that if needed, I could drop everything and go be with them.  And I did, for a week, while things were very grim.  For now, they are stable and healing from emergency surgery and ready for the next step and I am readying myself here/getting ready for the ride ahead.  Now if it weren't for that pesky job (though I did switch to a higher quality of life job that is being VERY accommodating with all this craziness).

[deborah]

My parent was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer very suddenly two weeks ago.  Part of the benefit of having a huge slush fund and my house paid off (in December! jeez, it seems so long ago) was the knowledge that if needed, I could drop everything and go be with them.  And I did, for a week, while things were very grim.  For now, they are stable and healing from emergency surgery and ready for the next step and I am readying myself here/getting ready for the ride ahead.  Now if it weren't for that pesky job (though I did switch to a higher quality of life job that is being VERY accommodating with all this craziness).

One of the major benefits of FIRE for me was being able to deal with this sort of stuff when it happened to my own father. Hope everything goes well.

[BunnyBoi]

Hi there,

I turned 20 in December and was diagnosed with Appendix Cancer (less than 1,000 Americans diagnosed with it a year) in January.

Had an emergency surgery and undergoing 6 months of chemotherapy right now.

Honestly with my whole experience so far, I would recommend to get to FI  ASAP to anyone.

Cancer can hit anyone at any age. My cancer is obviously due to genetics based on my young age (no family history though) but regardless, cancer is simply one of those unlucky things that some people get and others do not.

I am seriously lucky to come from a country with universal healthcare but while my medical costs are thankfully covered my living expenses are not (no welfare or unemployment or charity available where I am from).

Day to day living is very interesting. I am again lucky to have had a mustachian parent (deceased) so we were already FI and my living expenses are covered. But due to the fact I am not working and cannot earn an income (besides still being a student) during chemo, I do notice my emergency fund depleting gradually.

Having cancer brings on additional expenses, in my case I have had to take a taxi to the hospital for chemo because I have no family and nobody who can send me (prices are highly inflated due to it being considered a luxury here), food expenses thankfully decreased (but due to incorrect information in the beginning of treatment, I wasted money on the wrong food products), staying at home all day meant having to go for cable and internet (no Netflix where I live) and a lot more.

As fellow new MMM @The Great Dane mentioned, having cancer truly is both financially and emotionally stressful. Being FI before being diagnosed with cancer will at least help eliminate one stress if possible for some people.

Than there is the post Chemo cost and expenses, having to suddenly buy exclusively organic products (optional but for people who want to avoid pesticides that could encourage cancer recurrence), medical cost of yearly check ups, possible risk of a recurrence which would mean surgery/chemo/radiotherapy again and lack of income if going for treatments all over again.

Here is my blog https://thebucketliststory.wordpress.com/ if anyone is interested, only on Cycle 2 of Chemo though so not much written in the blog yet.

[Miamoo]

Danette my heart goes out to you.  Without going into great detail about my situation I totally understand what you're going through and it's really tough.  Really, really tough at times.

I wanted to suggest that you check out a support site that I belong to that's a wealth of information on finances, alternative and adjunct therapies, If you just need to vent . . . Inspire.com.  You can sign up anonymously if you choose or put in your details if you choose.  You can sign up and start a new thread something like "New Here, Stage III, Need Help" or something like that and explain your situation, stage, type (ER+?  ER-? PR+? Triple Negative?) and concerns.   You'd be surprised at the responses you'll get. I would suggest you sign up for the breast cancer and advanced breast cancer forums. Search "financial" for information.  But it would be easier to just start your own query.

Just a suggestion.

There's no way your wheatgrass therapy should be $800/month.  (Or did I read that wrong?)

Healing thoughts and cyber hugs coming your way.

[The Great Dane]

Danette my heart goes out to you.  Without going into great detail about my situation I totally understand what you're going through and it's really tough.  Really, really tough at times.

I wanted to suggest that you check out a support site that I belong to that's a wealth of information on finances, alternative and adjunct therapies, If you just need to vent . . . Inspire.com.  You can sign up anonymously if you choose or put in your details if you choose.  You can sign up and start a new thread something like "New Here, Stage III, Need Help" or something like that and explain your situation, stage, type (ER+?  ER-? PR+? Triple Negative?) and concerns.   You'd be surprised at the responses you'll get. I would suggest you sign up for the breast cancer and advanced breast cancer forums. Search "financial" for information.  But it would be easier to just start your own query.

Just a suggestion.

There's no way your wheatgrass therapy should be $800/month.  (Or did I read that wrong?)

Healing thoughts and cyber hugs coming your way.

Thank you so much for caring and for the resource. I had never heard of them, but they sound great and I will check it out.  Regarding the wheatgrass, since I don't have any white blood cell, I can't eat raw food because I can get an infection from bacteria. I have already been hospitalized for this once.  In order to get the therapeutic benefits of wheatgrass, I have to take a lot, but I also have to buy a brand that does not have mold or bacteria like most wheatgrass has. So yep, I found a great company and it is expensive, but it is helping me tremendously so I do it.  The high price of health I guess :-)

[The Great Dane]

(I did get the cost of my Neulasta injections mostly waived by the manufacturer, since my health plan's drug coverage wasn't enough for that;  sounds to me from your Indiegogo site like you might have been prescribed that one, so do look into that).

Can't get into the full story right now, but Lynne, you kinda saved my life! I was researching this and called the program, only to find out I can have a SEVERE reaction to this medicine (something no one told me before).
THANK YOU doesn't begin to cover it!!  THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!  THANK YOU!!!