Author Topic: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?  (Read 9236 times)

iwasjustwondering

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Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« on: October 21, 2015, 06:32:01 PM »
Hi all, my older son is going to be taking driver's ed soon, and will get his driver's license next year.  I'm a single parent, and it would be really lovely to have a second car in the family.  The high school is six miles away over a highway and on very busy roads, and my son does sports and activities that sometimes get out late.  It's sometimes a struggle for us to get him home (and I travel for business).  So I can't wait for him to be more mobile, and even help me out with driving my other son (who does a regional band every spring, a good 8 miles in the exact opposite direction).

Now that I have justified the car, here are the facts as I know them to be true:

I drive a 2010 Subaru Forester.  It has 94,000 miles on it.  I drive around 15K per year now, but for the first four years I drove it, I had a 20-mile-each-way commute.  So the miles added up.

I think the best bet is for me to keep the Subaru (no car loan), and buy my son a used car of some kind.  Alternatively, I could get myself another car, and give the Subaru to my son. 

What would you do?  What's a good used car for around $3 to $5K?  I am primarily looking for safety.  He won't put a ton of miles on it, I don't think.

SwordGuy

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2015, 06:42:49 PM »
I think it is a mistake to buy your son a car and give it to him.

It is a good idea to buy yourself another car and sell it to him - perhaps at a generous discount.   He needs to have skin in the game.

(And you can use the payments as college money...)

Turnbull

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2015, 06:45:43 PM »
The answer in that price range is always a 5 spd Civic, Corolla, Vibe, or Matrix.

I agree with the previous poster that your son should have to pay for at least something. My sister and I bought our own cars when we turned 16 and paid for our own insurance and gas. We hated it at the time but our mother told us we would appreciate it later. She was right.

iwasjustwondering

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2015, 06:56:32 PM »
The answer in that price range is always a 5 spd Civic, Corolla, Vibe, or Matrix.

I agree with the previous poster that your son should have to pay for at least something. My sister and I bought our own cars when we turned 16 and paid for our own insurance and gas. We hated it at the time but our mother told us we would appreciate it later. She was right.

Thanks for your thoughts.  Couple of questions.  Where is he going to get the money to pay for a car, though?  It's hard to work without a car in my town.  The time he spends working could be better spent studying, IMO, and the benefits to that are much higher (getting into a better school, getting a scholarship, or whatever).

I say this as someone who put herself through college and grad school completely on my own (full tuition scholarship, and I paid for room and board with loans/working 40 hours per week as a waitress).  I didn't buy a car till I was 26.  In fact, I bought my first condo before I bought my first (used, Corolla) car. 

My personal feeling is that kids should either not have a car or have one with substantial financial support from the parents.  Taking on a huge financial burden at a young age is not a great idea.

iwasjustwondering

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2015, 06:58:54 PM »
I think it is a mistake to buy your son a car and give it to him.

It is a good idea to buy yourself another car and sell it to him - perhaps at a generous discount.   He needs to have skin in the game.

(And you can use the payments as college money...)

Oh, sure.  Technically it would be my car.  In fact, I doubt he'd be able to bring it to college when he's a freshman.  At that point we would pass it down to my younger son. 

I don't like the idea of kids working during the school year at all.  I really don't.  Maybe over the summer.  I say this as someone who worked entirely too many hours from the age of 13, all through high school and college. 

MrsPete

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2015, 06:59:05 PM »
When our oldest turned 16, we bought ourselves a new car and made our old car the "extra car".  We made it clear that it was not "her car", but a family car.  She had to pay for gas, but that was it.  Our kids didn't work during the school year, a choice we'd make again in a heartbeat.  Though it was an expensive choice, we were happy with it. 

One thing we think worked well (and would work whether you're buying a car or just letting a kid use yours occasionally):  We had a written contract between us and our daughter.  We specified things like asking permission to go out, keeping the car clean, reporting maintenance problems to us right away, speeding, texting, and -- of course -- finances.  A friend at church gave us a copy of a contract he'd used with his two children, and we adapted it to our own wishes.  We never had a minute's trouble with kids and that car, even when the youngest was old enough to drive and they shared it, and I really think one of the big reasons we were successful was that we spelled out our expectations so clearly. 

Turnbull

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2015, 07:08:11 PM »
The answer in that price range is always a 5 spd Civic, Corolla, Vibe, or Matrix.

I agree with the previous poster that your son should have to pay for at least something. My sister and I bought our own cars when we turned 16 and paid for our own insurance and gas. We hated it at the time but our mother told us we would appreciate it later. She was right.

Thanks for your thoughts.  Couple of questions.  Where is he going to get the money to pay for a car, though?  It's hard to work without a car in my town.  The time he spends working could be better spent studying, IMO, and the benefits to that are much higher (getting into a better school, getting a scholarship, or whatever).

I say this as someone who put herself through college and grad school completely on my own (full tuition scholarship, and I paid for room and board with loans/working 40 hours per week as a waitress).  I didn't buy a car till I was 26.  In fact, I bought my first condo before I bought my first (used, Corolla) car. 

My personal feeling is that kids should either not have a car or have one with substantial financial support from the parents.  Taking on a huge financial burden at a young age is not a great idea.

Is there nowhere he could work that he could walk or ride a bike to get there? I started working at a retired man's greenhouse close to my school and about a mile from my house when I was 12. I walked over there after school, worked a few hours, and then walked home afterwards. In the summers I rode my bike there and back. I realize that was a unique situation but there may be something he could do to earn money without a car until he saves up some cash.

What do you mean by "taking on a huge financial burden?"

regulator

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2015, 07:21:41 PM »
If you are dead set on buying a kid car, I would look for a Buick Regal, LeSabre or Park Avenue with the 3800 engine and not too much hair on it.  These are boats, but they have all the safety doodads, most were owned by older people who drove little and took care of their cars, every mechanic in the country can work on them, and the drivetrain is well known as hard to kill.

daverobev

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2015, 09:27:18 AM »
The answer in that price range is always a 5 spd Civic, Corolla, Vibe, or Matrix.

I agree with the previous poster that your son should have to pay for at least something. My sister and I bought our own cars when we turned 16 and paid for our own insurance and gas. We hated it at the time but our mother told us we would appreciate it later. She was right.

Vivirolix. I like it!

Cirolberix?
Mivrobe?

Michread

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2015, 10:20:56 AM »
Toyota Camry or Corolla 2005 whichever you can get cheaper. 


cars+FIRE

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2015, 10:28:24 AM »
The answer in that price range is always a 5 spd Civic, Corolla, Vibe, or Matrix.

I agree with the previous poster that your son should have to pay for at least something. My sister and I bought our own cars when we turned 16 and paid for our own insurance and gas. We hated it at the time but our mother told us we would appreciate it later. She was right.

Thanks for your thoughts.  Couple of questions.  Where is he going to get the money to pay for a car, though?  It's hard to work without a car in my town.  The time he spends working could be better spent studying, IMO, and the benefits to that are much higher (getting into a better school, getting a scholarship, or whatever).

I say this as someone who put herself through college and grad school completely on my own (full tuition scholarship, and I paid for room and board with loans/working 40 hours per week as a waitress).  I didn't buy a car till I was 26.  In fact, I bought my first condo before I bought my first (used, Corolla) car. 

My personal feeling is that kids should either not have a car or have one with substantial financial support from the parents.  Taking on a huge financial burden at a young age is not a great idea.

I can appreciate your perspective, but all I can do is offer up what I experienced.

When I turned 16 I got a hand-me down car (about 14 years old at the time) and I needed to pay for gas and insurance.  Which meant that I had to get a job.

I had to learn how to balance school obligations with financial obligations, which IMO is even more important than maxing out school related objectives.  Also, getting a "real" job (instead of an allowance) and seeing a paycheck come in, and expenses go out, really started to cement my understanding in how to earn and save.  I'm glad I had 2 years to practice this before I went off to college, away from my parents, and into the hornets nest of predatory corporate influence (loans, credit cards, etc.)

Edit: I didn't necessarily feel like my parents were heavy handed in my purchased decisions back then, but I do imagine now in hindsight they knew how many hours I was taking on at work to see if it was realistic, and how much my financial commitments were, to see if it was sustainable.  I do feel like you need an adult providing that framework in the background.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 10:31:08 AM by cars+FIRE »

margarita

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2015, 10:38:20 AM »
Please call your insurance company and find out the cost of insurance on a (blank car - just pick a year/model of a car he is likely to get).

I don't know about your insurance company but mine would not allow him to be a secondary driver on   a second car in the household - he had to be primary driver. 

The cost was through the roof (can't remember but something like $600 or $700 per month) so we did not go ahead. 

Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.

takeahike

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2015, 11:31:46 AM »
Please call your insurance company and find out the cost of insurance on a (blank car - just pick a year/model of a car he is likely to get).

I don't know about your insurance company but mine would not allow him to be a secondary driver on   a second car in the household - he had to be primary driver. 

The cost was through the roof (can't remember but something like $600 or $700 per month) so we did not go ahead. 

Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.

This. You will be shocked.

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2015, 11:38:45 AM »
Just throwing in a younger guy's perspective here.  I was pretty involved in a lot of after-school stuff, so when I turned 16 my dad bought a Pontiac Grand Am with about 76K miles on it from a family friend who was having his 3rd kid and upgrading to a minivan (because apparently you can't use the middle back seat).  I believe it cost $3,500 and was a good deal.  My parents paid the insurance and registration, and I was responsible for gas.  I still have the car today, and my dad refuses to let me actually buy it off him lol.

The deal was that the car was mine to drive as I wished so long as I let them know where I was going to be, and if I was going to be out later than when they went to bed I had to call and let them know.  It was implied that if my grades slipped or I did something stupid they'd take the keys.  I didn't work while in school, but had full time jobs during the summers and didn't really buy much beyond a few big ticket items like a few video games a year or dates/outings with friends.  My parents were pretty frank about how much they were paying for insurance, and I was always aware of how generous they were being.  Different arrangements will work for different families, but as long as the kid doesn't take it for granted, I'd say you'd be fine buying your son a (used, reasonable) car.

With regards to insurance for kids, I don't recall it ever being as high as $500/month.  I'm a single guy under 25, and mine is currently about $85/month (bundled with my renter's insurance which makes up about $10 of that) for what it's worth.

Jack

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2015, 11:51:05 AM »
Please call your insurance company and find out the cost of insurance on a (blank car - just pick a year/model of a car he is likely to get).

I don't know about your insurance company but mine would not allow him to be a secondary driver on   a second car in the household - he had to be primary driver. 

The cost was through the roof (can't remember but something like $600 or $700 per month) so we did not go ahead. 

Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.

This is also a reason to consider regulator's "big-ass boat of a Buick" suggestion. The less typical it is for teenagers to drive that model of car, the lower the insurance would probably be. (Just for fun, you could even ask your insurer to compare a used 2-door Civic SI vs. something like a brand-new Porsche... you might be surprised which one is cheaper to insure.)

TrMama

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2015, 11:51:58 AM »
I agree that getting him a car is a good idea. I also agree that you need to get an insurance quote before committing. Ask if completion of a driving course will lower the premium. When I was a teen, this was the case and my mom paid for lessons. 

Then I'd get a small, old, fuel efficient car, or an older small truck. My parents bought me a Chevy S10 when I went to college, so I could move myself. Kids that age tend to move around a lot and it was really easy with the truck. Plus, it had limited seating, so I couldn't drive around with a big group of friends, which is a situation that can cause accidents with young drivers.

Do not put collision or comprehensive on it. This will keep the insurance premiums down. I like the idea of clearly spelled out expectations and making him pay for gas and either all (or part) of the insurance. If he's in an at fault accident and his insurance rates go up, he becomes responsible for the entire insurance premium.

k290

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2015, 01:05:32 PM »
or I did something stupid they'd take the keys.

I did something stupid and couldn't take my car out on weekends for well over a year lol.

Having a car paid for me during my years of study reduced my financial burden and allowed me to start saving 40% of my income as soon as I started working. It also allowed me to not have to work much in varsity and rather focus on my studies instead. which ultimately got me good grades and a top dollar job. And I still turned out to be a well-balanced frugal mustachian who knows the value of money in the end :)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 01:11:23 PM by k290 »

NeverLost

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2015, 01:20:13 PM »
My kids are a bit young for me to give advice on this, however I can share my story.  When I was about a year from driving my dad told me he'd buy me a car only after I'd saved $1000 so I could take care of it.  I would mostly work for him and my grandparents on weekends and they'd grossly overpay me.  Toward the end, when I had a license but no car quite yet, I got a job at a pizza place working maybe 1 weekday evening and weekends.  I would use one of my parents cars to get there.  When I'd saved my $1000, my dad bought me a 7 or 8 year old 5-speed civic.  They paid for insurance, however I was responsible for repairs, oil changes and gas.  I remember when I was a senior in high school I had to buy a new timing belt, man did that sting, but I had the money to do it!  I was a straight A student with a boyfriend, on student counsel and the softball team, living 20 minutes from anything and working 3 evenings a week didn't overwhelm me.  In fact, I made different friends outside of school and when it was slow, got my homework done :)

iwasjustwondering

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2015, 08:15:19 PM »
Please call your insurance company and find out the cost of insurance on a (blank car - just pick a year/model of a car he is likely to get).

I don't know about your insurance company but mine would not allow him to be a secondary driver on   a second car in the household - he had to be primary driver. 

The cost was through the roof (can't remember but something like $600 or $700 per month) so we did not go ahead. 

Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.

WHAT?!?  That's insane. 


WildHare

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2015, 08:54:54 PM »
A year or so before our youngest turned 16 we bought an accord.  I picked it because it was one of the safest choices.  We shared it through the high school years. It went to college, and grad school. That kid is now a married adult who is still driving that car and called just the other day to thank us for teaching the value of a paid off car. 

MrsPete

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2015, 11:08:01 AM »
Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.
Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago. 

However, yes, it'll be high.  When our oldest got her license, her insurance was as much as my insurance, my husband's insurance AND our homeowner's insurance COMBINED.  The bill literally doubled.  It went down a notch when she turned 18, then went down another notch at either 20 or 21 -- I can't remember which -- of course, that was about the time our youngest was added to our policy.  It's outrageous, and if they have an accident, it's really outrageous. 

I understand why it's high though:  So many of my students get themselves into wrecks (wrecks plural).  Some of these were entirely predictable:  Some kids are still very irresponsible at 16, and those kids aren't ready to drive, but you can't tell their parents that.

2lazy2retire

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2015, 12:05:36 PM »
Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.
Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago. 

However, yes, it'll be high.  When our oldest got her license, her insurance was as much as my insurance, my husband's insurance AND our homeowner's insurance COMBINED.  The bill literally doubled.  It went down a notch when she turned 18, then went down another notch at either 20 or 21 -- I can't remember which -- of course, that was about the time our youngest was added to our policy.  It's outrageous, and if they have an accident, it's really outrageous. 

I understand why it's high though:  So many of my students get themselves into wrecks (wrecks plural).  Some of these were entirely predictable:  Some kids are still very irresponsible at 16, and those kids aren't ready to drive, but you can't tell their parents that.

"Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago." - see what happens when you ask for equal rights :)

regulator

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2015, 01:00:08 PM »
Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.
Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago. 

However, yes, it'll be high.  When our oldest got her license, her insurance was as much as my insurance, my husband's insurance AND our homeowner's insurance COMBINED.  The bill literally doubled.  It went down a notch when she turned 18, then went down another notch at either 20 or 21 -- I can't remember which -- of course, that was about the time our youngest was added to our policy.  It's outrageous, and if they have an accident, it's really outrageous. 

I understand why it's high though:  So many of my students get themselves into wrecks (wrecks plural).  Some of these were entirely predictable:  Some kids are still very irresponsible at 16, and those kids aren't ready to drive, but you can't tell their parents that.

"Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago." - see what happens when you ask for equal rights :)

Wake me when women are required to register for Selective Service.

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2015, 01:17:37 PM »
Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.
Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago. 

However, yes, it'll be high.  When our oldest got her license, her insurance was as much as my insurance, my husband's insurance AND our homeowner's insurance COMBINED.  The bill literally doubled.  It went down a notch when she turned 18, then went down another notch at either 20 or 21 -- I can't remember which -- of course, that was about the time our youngest was added to our policy.  It's outrageous, and if they have an accident, it's really outrageous. 

I understand why it's high though:  So many of my students get themselves into wrecks (wrecks plural).  Some of these were entirely predictable:  Some kids are still very irresponsible at 16, and those kids aren't ready to drive, but you can't tell their parents that.

"Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago." - see what happens when you ask for equal rights :)

Wake me when women are required to register for Selective Service.
Can we just do away with the SS entirely?

regulator

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2015, 01:20:12 PM »
Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.
Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago. 

However, yes, it'll be high.  When our oldest got her license, her insurance was as much as my insurance, my husband's insurance AND our homeowner's insurance COMBINED.  The bill literally doubled.  It went down a notch when she turned 18, then went down another notch at either 20 or 21 -- I can't remember which -- of course, that was about the time our youngest was added to our policy.  It's outrageous, and if they have an accident, it's really outrageous. 

I understand why it's high though:  So many of my students get themselves into wrecks (wrecks plural).  Some of these were entirely predictable:  Some kids are still very irresponsible at 16, and those kids aren't ready to drive, but you can't tell their parents that.

"Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago." - see what happens when you ask for equal rights :)

Wake me when women are required to register for Selective Service.
Can we just do away with the SS entirely?

Makes sense to me.  If you ask career military folks (especially officers), the last thing any of them want is a bunch of unwilling conscriptees.

Dee18

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2015, 08:08:58 PM »
When my daughter was 15 I went to a great talk about teens and cars.  The speaker said to be sure to not have teens drive SUVs as they were more likely to be killed in a rollover than other accidents.  He also said studies showed that when a teen had "his or her car" they were way more likely to be in an accident, even if they drove the same amount of miles, than when they were driving the family car.   He also suggested that you do a driving contract with gradual increasing freedom, such as two months only to school and work with no passengers, then add siblings or one passenger.  He said accidents were much more likely with more passengers and the later at night the driving occurred.

unno2002

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2015, 08:27:06 PM »
A risk of course of a vehicle in your name, driven by your child, is your insurance or other liability for his accidents.  While our daughter still lived with us, we bought and allowed her to use an extra vehicle.  When she got a job, and decided to move out, we sold the vehicle to her.  She got her own insurance, makes payments (to us, which we save), etc.

We like Suzuki’s.  For example, I have a 27+ year old Samurai, that still runs every time I turn the key. Something like 250,000 miles on it.

chouchouu

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2015, 02:55:55 AM »
The answer in that price range is always a 5 spd Civic, Corolla, Vibe, or Matrix.

I agree with the previous poster that your son should have to pay for at least something. My sister and I bought our own cars when we turned 16 and paid for our own insurance and gas. We hated it at the time but our mother told us we would appreciate it later. She was right.

Thanks for your thoughts.  Couple of questions.  Where is he going to get the money to pay for a car, though?  It's hard to work without a car in my town.  The time he spends working could be better spent studying, IMO, and the benefits to that are much higher (getting into a better school, getting a scholarship, or whatever).

I say this as someone who put herself through college and grad school completely on my own (full tuition scholarship, and I paid for room and board with loans/working 40 hours per week as a waitress).  I didn't buy a car till I was 26.  In fact, I bought my first condo before I bought my first (used, Corolla) car. 

My personal feeling is that kids should either not have a car or have one with substantial financial support from the parents.  Taking on a huge financial burden at a young age is not a great idea.

You should read "the millionaire next door". There is a substantial inverse correlation between monetary gifts and propensity to save. Helping out your kid with financial burdens deprives them of the joy of independence and worth from making it on your own. Kids learn resilience and adapt if you're not helping them out, like you did and appreciate the value of money more. Just my two cents.

use2betrix

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2015, 09:15:43 AM »
Please call your insurance company and find out the cost of insurance on a (blank car - just pick a year/model of a car he is likely to get).

I don't know about your insurance company but mine would not allow him to be a secondary driver on   a second car in the household - he had to be primary driver. 

The cost was through the roof (can't remember but something like $600 or $700 per month) so we did not go ahead. 

Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.

Hahaha, youre either not in the US or your insurance company is bending you over hard. Did you get zero 2nd opinions?

My fiancé is 21 and has been on my vehicle insurance since she was 19. I purchased a 2nd car for us (her) and she is the primary driver. A 1999 Camry. Full coverage is around $110/mo.

I am 27 and have been paying for my own insurance since I was 20. When I was 20 I had a 4 year old Mustang GT (v8 2wd sports car) and my insurance for full coverage was 170/mo.

600-700/mo? You're kids are without a vehicle because you can't shop around or you're downright exaggerating.

Turnbull

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2015, 09:55:10 AM »
Please call your insurance company and find out the cost of insurance on a (blank car - just pick a year/model of a car he is likely to get).

I don't know about your insurance company but mine would not allow him to be a secondary driver on   a second car in the household - he had to be primary driver. 

The cost was through the roof (can't remember but something like $600 or $700 per month) so we did not go ahead. 

Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.

This is also a reason to consider regulator's "big-ass boat of a Buick" suggestion. The less typical it is for teenagers to drive that model of car, the lower the insurance would probably be. (Just for fun, you could even ask your insurer to compare a used 2-door Civic SI vs. something like a brand-new Porsche... you might be surprised which one is cheaper to insure.)

I'm pretty sure the one that's a lot faster and worth twenty times as much will be more expensive to insure.

paddedhat

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2015, 03:25:20 PM »
You should read "the millionaire next door". There is a substantial inverse correlation between monetary gifts and propensity to save. Helping out your kid with financial burdens deprives them of the joy of independence and worth from making it on your own. Kids learn resilience and adapt if you're not helping them out, like you did and appreciate the value of money more. Just my two cents.

This is something I wrestled with as both kids hit that age. On one hand, my step dad was a prick, and  believed that teenagers should not be "given" anything other than food, clothing and shelter. Of course, this was back when I could pick up a usable VW bug for $300-400, an insure it for a similar amount for the year. OTOH, both of my kids are responsible, had jobs by the time they were fifteen, and waited until they were 17 and 18 to get licenses. I bought decent vehicles for both of them, and provided everything but fuel. Fast forward 6-8 years and they both are independent adults with four year degrees, jobs and serious relationships. They both see what it's like for their friends and partners to struggle with student loans, and car payments, which are non-issues for them. As for being thrifty and responsible? My son is an engineer who is maintaining an impressive savings rate. My daughter just announced that she picked up an side job for 15 hours a week, since she wanted to start putting some money away.

Statistics in a book are one thing, but if you are honest with yourself as  parent, you know the likely outcome of deciding to offer, or decline, assistance to your teenagers in matters like this. My kids grew up in a neighborhood full of similar aged teenagers. Well before high school graduation, I could easily predict which ones were going somewhere and would be successful young adults in a few years, and who wasn't as likely. Deciding to gift big ticket items like cars and tuition is no different. Both were good investments for me, but I can see the other side of the issue.

iwasjustwondering

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2015, 03:37:12 PM »
You should read "the millionaire next door". There is a substantial inverse correlation between monetary gifts and propensity to save. Helping out your kid with financial burdens deprives them of the joy of independence and worth from making it on your own. Kids learn resilience and adapt if you're not helping them out, like you did and appreciate the value of money more. Just my two cents.

This is something I wrestled with as both kids hit that age. On one hand, my step dad was a prick, and  believed that teenagers should not be "given" anything other than food, clothing and shelter. Of course, this was back when I could pick up a usable VW bug for $300-400, an insure it for a similar amount for the year. OTOH, both of my kids are responsible, had jobs by the time they were fifteen, and waited until they were 17 and 18 to get licenses. I bought decent vehicles for both of them, and provided everything but fuel. Fast forward 6-8 years and they both are independent adults with four year degrees, jobs and serious relationships. They both see what it's like for their friends and partners to struggle with student loans, and car payments, which are non-issues for them. As for being thrifty and responsible? My son is an engineer who is maintaining an impressive savings rate. My daughter just announced that she picked up an side job for 15 hours a week, since she wanted to start putting some money away.

Statistics in a book are one thing, but if you are honest with yourself as  parent, you know the likely outcome of deciding to offer, or decline, assistance to your teenagers in matters like this. My kids grew up in a neighborhood full of similar aged teenagers. Well before high school graduation, I could easily predict which ones were going somewhere and would be successful young adults in a few years, and who wasn't as likely. Deciding to gift big ticket items like cars and tuition is no different. Both were good investments for me, but I can see the other side of the issue.

I agree with you.  My son is a good kid who works very hard.  He has a 4.4 GPA, runs cross country and track, and does some other activities.  He's already starting to get tired from all the homework he does after he gets home from xc, and I'm very glad the season is ending soon.  He also has a youtube channel, and has been approached by a management company that wants to represent him.  He hasn't signed on because he's heard they're scammy, but it's another thing he works quite hard at. I am sure he will work next summer, but I don't want either of my kids working during the school year, apart from the youtube thing that might possibly make money one day. 

BTW, he *does not* want me to buy him a car, because he thinks it's a shocking waste of money when there are starving people in the world.  The car is for me, not him.  I need another car and another driver in the family. 

Thanks everyone for the advice.  I appreciate it. 

MrsPete

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2015, 08:55:44 PM »
"Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago." - see what happens when you ask for equal rights :)
Oh, I'm not arguing with you.  I think we women actually have it better than you guys in today's society.

 
Wake me when women are required to register for Selective Service.
Big whoop.  You have to go to the post office on your 18th birthday.  When was the last man drafted?  Vietnam? 

He also suggested that you do a driving contract with gradual increasing freedom, such as two months only to school and work with no passengers, then add siblings or one passenger.  He said accidents were much more likely with more passengers and the later at night the driving occurred.
Oh, yes, I agree.  By letting our kids know EXACTLY what we expected of them behind the wheel, we avoided so much trouble -- and,  yes, passengers were one thing we addressed.  I teach high school, and I probably see a wreck outside the school every 2-3 weeks (and that's just in the immediate vicinity of the school).  It's almost always the same story:  3-4 kids piled into the car, the young and inexperienced driver involved in laughing and talking instead of keeping his or her eyes firmly on the road.  These are usually just fender benders with one kid running into the back of another, but they're still bad for the family's insurance bill! 

You should read "the millionaire next door". There is a substantial inverse correlation between monetary gifts and propensity to save. Helping out your kid with financial burdens deprives them of the joy of independence and worth from making it on your own. Kids learn resilience and adapt if you're not helping them out, like you did and appreciate the value of money more. Just my two cents.
You know your own kid, and you know where you've taught him (or haven't taught him) these things along the way. 

We gave our kids the use of an old car when they were in high school, and they only had to pay for gas.  We didn't want them to spend their high school years working to pay for transportation.  Today they're both in college, both on scholarship; my total outlay for both to attend college this semester was $330.  They're both very frugal and appreciative of what they've been given.  As my oldest approaches graduation, she's asking me questions like, "If I move back home, how much do I need to pay in rent?" and "When will my car insurance be due, and how much should I have ready?" and "Can I stay on your phone plan?  Of course I'd pay my share."  She also asked me to give her some books I had around the house on money management.  Clearly they've learned some positive lessons along the way in spite of not having spent their teen years working to pay for things we can easily afford to give them. 

Cole

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2015, 10:03:53 PM »
As someone who has worked since I could legally get a job and has siblings who didn't have to work I would say help your kids not have to work through high school. It has always been stressful for me to complete my homework. If it's not a large burden to you give your kid the gift of a less stressful high school experience.

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2015, 07:30:18 AM »
Wake me when women are required to register for Selective Service.
Big whoop.  You have to go to the post office on your 18th birthday.  When was the last man drafted?  Vietnam? 
It's more the principle of the thing at this point.  I think the reason it isn't argued more often or hotly is precisely because there hasn't been a draft in so long.  That said, registering with the SS is essentially signing a contract that gives someone the right to screw you over and just trusting that they won't, because they *probably* won't need to.  It's kind of sad that such a thing even exists, but it's comical that men are the only ones required to register when you think about the supposed social values of today being what they are. /rant

mm1970

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2015, 10:58:00 AM »
I think it is a mistake to buy your son a car and give it to him.

It is a good idea to buy yourself another car and sell it to him - perhaps at a generous discount.   He needs to have skin in the game.

(And you can use the payments as college money...)

Oh, sure.  Technically it would be my car.  In fact, I doubt he'd be able to bring it to college when he's a freshman.  At that point we would pass it down to my younger son. 

I don't like the idea of kids working during the school year at all.  I really don't.  Maybe over the summer.  I say this as someone who worked entirely too many hours from the age of 13, all through high school and college.
I think your own experience is clouding the issue.  Which, you know, is typical.  People tend to want the opposite for their kids or the exact same, depending on their own experiences.

I worked in HS, but in a small town, so it took until mid-senior year to GET a job.  I only worked about 10 hours a week, on weekends, during the school year.

My nephew wanted a car in HS, and he got a job washing dishes on the weekends to afford it.

It's not "either/or".  I think it is just fine for your son to go and find a job during the school year AND spend time studying. I know plenty of HS students who babysit, work at the pizza place, or whatever during the school year.  They just don't work on school nights, or if they do, only for a couple of hours (from 4 to 7, for example, and not every day, leaving time for homework).

mm1970

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2015, 11:04:40 AM »
Male under 25 years and unmarried is very expensive for car insurance.
Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago. 

However, yes, it'll be high.  When our oldest got her license, her insurance was as much as my insurance, my husband's insurance AND our homeowner's insurance COMBINED.  The bill literally doubled.  It went down a notch when she turned 18, then went down another notch at either 20 or 21 -- I can't remember which -- of course, that was about the time our youngest was added to our policy.  It's outrageous, and if they have an accident, it's really outrageous. 

I understand why it's high though:  So many of my students get themselves into wrecks (wrecks plural).  Some of these were entirely predictable:  Some kids are still very irresponsible at 16, and those kids aren't ready to drive, but you can't tell their parents that.

"Male hasn't mattered for years.  They raised girls' prices to match the guys' prices years ago." - see what happens when you ask for equal rights :)
Considering the advent of cell phones, it's a good choice.

MayDay

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2015, 11:28:54 AM »
My siblings and I shared a '88 Subaru GL in high school.  My parents covered insurance *as long as we didn't get in any accidents* and we covered gas.  We all worked in the summer but not the school year- if kids are in sports, working is very difficult, with the exception of stuff like babysitting on weekend evenings, and reffing in whatever sports they play.  We also weren't allowed to take friends places, just siblings, and had to earn the right to do anything other than drive to/from school.

In terms of specific cars, we recently sold our '03 Civic for 5k.  It had antilock breaks but not ESC or side air bags.  We still own our other '03 Civic. It has neither antilock breaks, nor ESC, nor side airbags.  It will probably chug along for another decade, but I won't let my teenagers drive it (they are 8 and 5 now).  We'll replace it with a bit newer Accord or Camry most likely, or maybe a wagon.  Its honestly just not that safe compared to cars just 2 years newer that have those 3 features.  So long story short, I'd look for a small to medium sized sedan, preferably Honda or Civic for the ages you are looking at, with those 3 features. 

regulator

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2015, 12:44:58 PM »
Wake me when women are required to register for Selective Service.
Big whoop.  You have to go to the post office on your 18th birthday.  When was the last man drafted?  Vietnam? 


If it is no big whoop then sign all the 18YO women up, toot sweet.

zephyr911

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2015, 12:53:50 PM »

eyePod

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2015, 01:01:35 PM »
My wife's dad did it the best. ~$3,000 older Cavalier from an old lady which had great gas mileage, not tons of room for screwing around, cheap insurance since it was older and wasn't a sports car, and then he gave it to each of his next daughters too. He ended up selling it for close to the original price even though it got a few dings over the years.

My parents bought a Camry at 11k which was too much, it was fun, i took good care of it, and they finally got rid of it last year when the engine seized, but they should have looked for an older model car to save on the up front cost.

Both my wife and I turned out well. 200k net worth before age 30 even though we had our cars paid for us!

Giro

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Re: Buying my son a car -- recommendations?
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2015, 01:24:44 PM »

Both my wife and I turned out well. 200k net worth before age 30 even though we had our cars paid for us!

agree.  I bought both of my kids cars.  For awhile, they had nicer cars than I had.  They are both pretty darn good adults and they have more saved for retirement at 21 than I had at 30.

I don't like the whole idea of 'don't give kids shit (cars, college, phones, etc) because they won't learn to appreciate it'.  I don't think that is true.  I think some kids are just dicks and some kids are awesome.


 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!