Buy a Vespa?

[Baylor3217]

My commute is about 10 miles each way.  A bicycle isn't a safe option.

Seems a 150cc Vespa can be had for < $1,000 and gets about 80 MPG.

How durable are they?

Anyone have experience using one of these as a commuter vehicle?

[Eric]

I've never bought one or ridden one.  However, I was considering purchasing one last year, followed prices on Craigsllist for a few months, and I rarely saw a 150cc under $4000.  Lots of 50cc's for cheap, but not the 150cc.  Be cautious, as that deal seems a little too good to be true.

[capital]

Plenty of people do it in big urban areas, and I've chatted with a guy who used one with a big engine on the freeway (in a turn lane; I myself had just gotten off the freeway on my bicycle as San Diego has terrible bike infrastructure). If a bike isn't a safe option a Vespa might not be that much better, as you run into similar visibility issues and similar issues with big weight differences at high speeds.

By a Vespa do you mean any motorscooter? Because Vespas themselves are siginficantly more expensive than Japanese/Taiwanese models, and used motorcycles (like a Rebel or Ninja 250) are often price-competitive. If you're safety-concious you also need to add in the price of good gear-- a helmet, a jacket (or maybe two for changeable weather), boots, gloves, etc.

[frpeebles]

Decent gear will save your ass when you go down. Note that I said "when" not "if." That said, if you can be patient Craigslist will provide lots of lightly used, expensive gear for good prices. Additionally, most gear sold used has lost more or less all the value it's going to lose. If you don't destroy it you can generally resell it for what you paid for it. Minimal gear is probably find for low speed surface street commutes. If you are going to run on the highway... I hope you plan to look like a power ranger.

$250+$40 for my helmet and goggles new? Fuck that $70 off CL in brand new condition.
$230 for my boots new? $80 barely used.
etc...

There is a mentality you need to have when riding on the street. You should also find a motorcycle safety course.
I ride off-road and have no interest in riding around other vehicles.

http://rideapart.com/2013/10/10-things-ive-learned-10-motorcycle-crashes/

Keep in mind the mainentenace schedule for single cyclinder, high revving vehicles will be more intense than that of a modern car. I change my bike's oil ever ten hours and I'd bet most small to medium sized scooters go 500-1000 miles between services.

[Khan]

I have experience using a scooter(49cc), motorcycles(Ninja 500, 800 and 1000cc bikes), and bicycles.

It depends. If you think a bicycle isn't safe(or particularly fun at 10 miles daily), scooter is an iffy proposition. Doubly so because my 49cc one could barely hit 40mph going down a hill. It topped out I think ~34mph on a level area, so if you're on roads with 45mph speed limits... no, I would not particularly enjoy that.

Scooters at that range(low end 50cc) are also useless if you want to use them for any distance that involves highways/faster speeds, and they just feel slow and annoying. I'd highly recommend checking out 250cc-500cc low end motorcycles, they still get 50-60mpg, can go at highway speeds, don't feel recklessly dangerous in an underpowered fashion, and come in at awesome prices used which you can almost always sell back for around the same price you bought them for.

Also, safety gear is a must. And this is an important point, as everytime you get on the vehicle you should at an absolute minimum have a helmet(I wear jacket + gloves, slacking on riding pants + proper ankle protection), which means that you have to deal with handling a helmet everywhere you're going, whether it be locking it onto the vehicle at your destination, carrying it with you, etc. Any trip involving the vehicle is a little more complicated then just hopping in your car. Also, being exposed to the elements, right now at night it quickly hits 50F here in Phoenix, and that's cold as **** on a bike. I'm wearing non-permeable leather jacket, and about to switch back to my leather gloves and soon a balaclava underneath my helmet because it's so uncomfortable. And that's just Phoenix.

[olivia]

What is the speed limit on the roads you'd be taking?  I lived in a city with 25-35pmh speed limits and had a 50cc Genuine Buddy scooter and I liked it, but it wasn't a whole lot safer than biking IMO.  It was probably less safe because there were bike lanes, but on a scooter you ride like a car, and plenty of people just don't see you. 

I had the scooter derestricted and could get it up to almost 50 mph, which made it safer, because you can accelerate a lot faster and make it up hills a lot easier.  (That said, if I had ever gotten pulled over by the cops for speeding I would have gotten a ticket for speeding, for not having a motorcycle license and for not having it registered as a motorcycle, because anything that can go above a certain speed (I think 35-40 mph?) was considered a motorcycle in my old state.)

Dealing with the elements is the worst part of using a scooter...I think a bike is less painful, really.  On the scooter if you ride in the rain, the rain seriously hurts when it hits you, the cold feels a lot colder when you're going 40 mph vs. when you're biking, etc..  Plus it SUCKS when it's hot because if you're being safe and wearing appropriate gear, you're sweating to death. 

So it probably won't shock you when I tell you that I sold it after about a year and a half.  If you buy one used off Craigslist you can probably sell it for about what you bought it for if it ends up not working out, so I think it's worth a try.  I wouldn't get a Vespa though-they're quite pricey.  I was happy with my Genuine Buddy (you can store the helmet underneath the seat and get a topcase for your briefcase/purse), and I knew a few people with Honda Ruckuses that liked them.  Those are more minimal looking though, so I doubt there's any storage under the seat.

ETA oh and they're light and very easy to steal, so you need to lock them up just like a bike unless you have a safe parking/storage option.  This was not always easy, and sometimes the cops near my work hassled me about locking it up to the bike rack. 

[ichangedmyname]

My husband bought a scooter, not a Vespa but a Kymco (sp?) and we both love it. He doesn't do highways but since I live so close to work he can take me and I don't have to pay $1.75 for the bus. He fills it up with gas every 3 weeks or so for a whopping $3. We ride it to the store and around our neighborhood, if the weather's nice we ride it up a few places but never highways. Winter's coming though so not a lot of scooter rides til Spring.

[krenwren]

I had a 150cc vespa for a few years and loved it.  New,  they are over 5000, so I would check to make sure that it's a 150 you are getting. I sold mine for 2500 a couple of years ago, that was a steal.  Because of it's size, I had to get a motorcycle license.  It was great for commuting but as with the other commenters, people do not see you!  You need to take great care.  The longest distance I rode routinely was about five miles, very comfortable.  If you want save money on gas, it's definitely the way to go.

[mpbaker22]

A bicycle isn't a safe option.

What makes it not safe?

[Eric]

Also, have you read this?

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/08/19/guest-posting-get-rich-with-scooters/

[dcheesi]

I thought about it a while back. But as others have said, if your commute is not safe for a bicycle, it's probably not safe for a low-powered scooter either.

And since this is the MMM forum, someone is obligated to point out that the bike uses less gas and gives you free exercise ;-)   [Personally I question the net health value of exercising while breathing in everyone else's exhaust fumes, but that's a discussion for another thread.]

[Freedom2016]

Baylor, where are you located?

If in the Boston area, we have a Vespa we are looking to sell and we would make you a good deal. :)

[livetogive]

If a powered 2 wheeled vehicle makes sense then I always recommend just getting a ninja 250 or similar.  Much better equipment and I feel they are way safer (bigger tires and wheels,  more power,  better design,  bigger brakes,  beefier components.)

Insurance on a very low end motorcycle is negligible and their resale value is the same if you buy used.  They're also very cheap and easy to work on yourself.

[vespito]

I love my vespa.  Good gas mileage, fun and finding parking is a lot easier.  You will still need to save some money for maintenance though - depends on age/model/miles.  I have a 2007 LX 150 and put aside $35/month.  I have a bit extra which may fund any replacement scoot.  A trickle charger for the battery is a great accessory if you will be taking lots of small trips.

I'd recommend 2 things:
1) Motorcycle safety class - they may have scooters you can use.  I took the class using their motorcycles and it was a huge help.  You may also receive a discount on your insurance.
2) Modern Vespa forums.  Lots of knowledgeable people there.  I haven't read/posted in ages, but it's a good source of info.

edit:I agree with frpeebles.  Good equipment is important.  My full face helmet costs a fortune and I'm ok with that.  I replace my helmets every 4 - 5 years.  I set aside $7/month just for a new helmet.  A bright orange helmet.

[jamface10]

I ride a Piaggio Zip 50cc on my car licence and prefer it to busing, although when the opportunity arises (starting full time work) my first priority is getting a car. On nice sunny days I love scootering, but as soon as its cold, windy or raining it becomes a real drain. Biggest plus is cheap petrol, free parking everywhere, and in my city you can drive down the bus lanes. I'm hoping next year I can drive a combination of the two, but I feel once I get a car it might be time to sell.

If you get one I really recommend a top box, it means you can store pretty much all your safety gear (which I think is a necessity). Everytime I see someone without gloves it makes me cringe.

[capital]

Thumbs up on the motorcycle safety course. They're often subsidized by the state, practicing handling and different scenarios in a safe environment is really helpful, and a lot of things translate well to bicycling.

[simpleeconomist]

Man, it seems like people get really excited and super protective about their scooting. I have owned 20+ scooters over the years and I'm currently riding a 2001 Vespa ET4 150cc (for about 2 years now).  I ride it all around town when I'm not biking. I bought it for $1200 and they normally sell for around $1400-1900 in my area. It has 3k miles on it when I bought it. The advantage to buying/riding a 'vespa' instead of another brand is that, if purchased cheaply, they don't really depreciate in the ~$1500 range. It came with a helmet (~$50ish) and I use it when I ride. Maintenance has been almost non existent on the machine, just oil changes and a spark plug (About $15 over the last two years). I did get my motor cycle license (which was too easy on the scoot) and we do have to have insurance in our state ($6 a month). I feel very safe and I always drive like no one sees me. If you have ridden a bike on the road much you will not feel very threatened. It will go 80+ on the interstate behind a truck but that feels a little crazy on 12inch wheels. I feel pretty comfortable cruising around the 55mph range on it.

[SavingMon(k)ey]

simpleeconomist, what would you say is the mileage you can put on a good quality Vespa like that before it's considered "really old" and not running well anymore?

[simpleeconomist]

If you follow the vespa fourms or go outside the US mileage for scooters is much higher. I've ridden Honda C70s with 200,000+ miles and seen 100s of them (thanks to living in the philippines and traveling in vietnam). I would suspect 50k miles before any major issues but there are plenty of people that can get to 100k stock with only scheduled maintenance. It does depend on it has been well cared for or abused just like a car. I would also suggest a 'modern' vespa, year 2000+ for less maintenance. The older ones will run forever but will need constant tinkering (go for it if you like that kinda of stuff).

[Everything in Moderation]

"A bicycle isn't a safe option. "

I would argue that a bicycle is safer than any other mode of transportation, even if you ride on busy streets.  Wear a helmet. 

Do you really think it is not safe, or is that an excuse not to make the effort and bicycle to work, or are you just uncomfortable on a bicycle on a road?  If you are uncomfortable, I suggest trying it and it will get easier. 

[Marmot]

I would recommend considering a Sym or a Lance. I owned a Sym, in Taipei, Taiwan which topped out at about 60 mph for 6 months and loved it. It was either 125cc or 150cc. Scooters are a lot of fun; if you have at least 125ccs, you can accelerate faster than the average car. Unfortunately, the laws and norms in the US are a lot less scooter friendly (ie no scooters only designated box at the front of where traffic waits at each intersection with a traffic light).

"A bicycle isn't a safe option. "

I would argue that a bicycle is safer than any other mode of transportation, even if you ride on busy streets.  Wear a helmet. 

Do you really think it is not safe, or is that an excuse not to make the effort and bicycle to work, or are you just uncomfortable on a bicycle on a road?  If you are uncomfortable, I suggest trying it and it will get easier.

I agree that the more people that bike in general, the better for society, for their health and for their pocketbooks, though I would suggest a little more "moderation" in pushing your agenda.

Biking is safe enough in urban areas when there are bike lanes, bike paths or roads that have a lot of unused parking spots. It is definitely not on roads that do not have a bike lane and have 35mph+ speed limits. Also, whether or not you have to travel through a very dangerous neighborhood (ie some of the neighborhoods on the S. or W. sides of Chicago), is another major factor to consider. For example, I live in a suburb that touches the west side of Chicago and work downtown (roughly 7 miles away). I would not consider biking to work as I would have to travel through some very rough neighborhoods (ie the Austin neighborhood of Chicago http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/community/austin) on roads that do not have bike lanes, where cars regularly go 40+ mph and also roads where cars would not normally expect many bikers. The risk of being doored and the lack of airbags and a steel frame surrounding you are also a factor.

I am open to hearing your counter arguments and would try to read them with an open mind.

[frompa]

Ditto to those who've encouraged the bicycle option over a vespa.  Ten miles each way is an excellent length commute... long enough to be a real ride, you get to work feeling chill, and you get home feeling chill.  I did it for years. 

[Everything in Moderation]

Marmot:  West/South side of Chicago..you have a valid point there.  I would NEVER ride a bike there.  I was only asking the question because perhaps the OP lives in a safer area, where murder is not the most popular hobby.   

Also, I personally do not think it is dangerous to ride a bike on busy roads with no bike lane.  I live in the suburbs and although I do travel on busy road at times, I work my commute out to where I can take sidewalks and backroads 1/2 of the way. 

I am not opposed to a Vespa (they are better than a car and just so darn cute!), just wanted to nicely challenge to OP and ask if the danger in riding a bike was more in their head. 

[GuitarStv]

I agree that the more people that bike in general, the better for society, for their health and for their pocketbooks, though I would suggest a little more "moderation" in pushing your agenda.

Biking is safe enough in urban areas when there are bike lanes, bike paths or roads that have a lot of unused parking spots. It is definitely not on roads that do not have a bike lane and have 35mph+ speed limits. Also, whether or not you have to travel through a very dangerous neighborhood (ie some of the neighborhoods on the S. or W. sides of Chicago), is another major factor to consider. For example, I live in a suburb that touches the west side of Chicago and work downtown (roughly 7 miles away). I would not consider biking to work as I would have to travel through some very rough neighborhoods (ie the Austin neighborhood of Chicago http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/community/austin) on roads that do not have bike lanes, where cars regularly go 40+ mph and also roads where cars would not normally expect many bikers. The risk of being doored and the lack of airbags and a steel frame surrounding you are also a factor.

I am open to hearing your counter arguments and would try to read them with an open mind.

I bike 10 miles to work on busy city streets with speed limits higher than 35 mph regularly.  It's not dangerous if you bike safely.

If you are at risk of being doored, you are biking too closely to parked traffic.  Take the whole lane until it is safe to move back to the side of the street.  Bike visibility is your best defense in traffic.  Wear bright, reflective stuff.  Use lights whenever conditions are dark or overcast.  Don't hug the far right of the lane if it's causing traffic to pass close to you.  Don't pass large vehicles or cars on the right when you're near intersections (you'll probably get run over because they'll turn unexpectedly).  As far as traffic, I regularly cycle through the #3 most dangerous of Toronto's 'Priority Neighbourhoods' according to Police reports.  I haven't had any problems or issues with locals.  Actually, I feel a lot safer biking on the road than I do walking on the sidewalk late at night.  Granted, this is Toronto and not the gun crazy US . . .

[berrysteevan]

The definiton of safety depends on how you ride a bike or bicycle or scooter. I would say that if you can ride it safely enough then you can surely opt for a vespa!