Author Topic: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?  (Read 6676 times)

TheAnonOne

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #100 on: August 12, 2018, 10:10:35 PM »
This board has gotten so damn soft.

Buying a new car is NEVER the most prudent choice. You probably could have found one 1-3 years old for 5k less with hardly any miles, or even better something with 50k+ miles for barely 10k.

I'm bad at seeing the future. I've spent $4K+ trying to keep three separate used cars on the road. I'm not saying that I'll never buy another used car, but I am saying that I'd much rather accidentally pay an extra $2K for a new car then accidentally spend $3-4K not keeping a used car on the road.

I completely agree that all cars are really expensive, and at any minute can cost you thousands of dollars. When I FIRE it will be in a place that I don't need to own a car.

This board ideally pushes people to buy 4-6 year old cars with 50-100k miles for <10k (likely MUCH cheaper)

Your example is a bad cop-out. It is financially terrible to buy a new car against my example 99.99% of the time. This isn't a comparison of new vs 1 year old, saving a few grand and getting screwed on repairs. It's likely saving TEN THOUSAND or more on the purchase. Not even including what you save on taxes, dealer fees, and tabs.

If you have a commuter car need $10,000+ in repairs even from a high-priced dealer shop you are likely one of the most unlucky people I've certainly 'met'.

Lmoot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 640
    • Journal
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #101 on: August 13, 2018, 01:51:01 AM »
Facepunch. A camry drops $5000 in year one (and the 2018 are 11 months old) and another $4000 in year 2 according to the link provided. The first year of driving the car will have $0.31/mile depreciation. The next year is $0.17/mile, you always pay extra for that new car smell.

https://usedfirst.com/cars/toyota/camry/

The 2019 camry's are coming out in the next 2 months, at which point the 2018 models are worth about $20,000...you didn't get any deal at all.  So you paid full price on last years model. A quick google search will show you got standard finance rates and the standard price for July. That's what my local online listing are; $20,000 and 0.9% financing for 2018 models. I don't even need to ask the salesmen, thats the full local list price on a car that was $25,000 last fall when it came out.

This board has gotten so damn soft.
The facepunch is deserved 100% you have failed MMM class today.
pretty much, paying full price for a new car is strange to endorse.

I plan on getting a new car for the first time. My rationale is, I work from home, for the meantime anyway, and nobody will be putting less miles on a car in the first couple years than myself.  Since most major maintenance checks are based on mileage, the lower mileage I start out with, the longer I can put off expensive repairs. If you plan on driving a car for 10+ years, the cost savings between buying brand new and buying a couple years used, amortized, is not that much of savings. There are also perks for buying new; for example I will only buy new if I qualify for 0% financing for two or more years. The longer I can keep my own cash, the better. And it will help cut into the cost difference between new and slightly used.

I feel like the people that would get hurt the most from depreciation, are those wanting to trade in every few years. Thatís not me. Iím driving into the ground, like most people here would.

 Also, I have found that cars with more expensive options are more widely available used. And their used car pricing is compared to their original pricing, which is higher than what I would have paid simply because I would pick the basic model. There just arenít as many basic model options available used, so then you have to factor in paying extra for features you donít want, because the previous owner wanted them. The type of people that will buy basic cars are the type to most likely hold onto them for really long time.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 01:53:25 AM by Lmoot »

Lmoot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 640
    • Journal
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #102 on: August 13, 2018, 02:04:01 AM »
This board has gotten so damn soft.

Buying a new car is NEVER the most prudent choice. You probably could have found one 1-3 years old for 5k less with hardly any miles, or even better something with 50k+ miles for barely 10k.

I'm bad at seeing the future. I've spent $4K+ trying to keep three separate used cars on the road. I'm not saying that I'll never buy another used car, but I am saying that I'd much rather accidentally pay an extra $2K for a new car then accidentally spend $3-4K not keeping a used car on the road.

I completely agree that all cars are really expensive, and at any minute can cost you thousands of dollars. When I FIRE it will be in a place that I don't need to own a car.

This board ideally pushes people to buy 4-6 year old cars with 50-100k miles for <10k (likely MUCH cheaper)

Your example is a bad cop-out. It is financially terrible to buy a new car against my example 99.99% of the time. This isn't a comparison of new vs 1 year old, saving a few grand and getting screwed on repairs. It's likely saving TEN THOUSAND or more on the purchase. Not even including what you save on taxes, dealer fees, and tabs.

If you have a commuter car need $10,000+ in repairs even from a high-priced dealer shop you are likely one of the most unlucky people I've certainly 'met'.

I would never pay cash for a car because I would want to use that cash towards investments, specifically real estate investment. So I prefer paying it off over several years, at 0%. This financing just doesnít exist for used cars.  Also, as I am just coming out on the other side of the expensive years of my 2003 Honda, I want to start off as far away from expensive maintenance as possible. Once you get into six years, depending on the car, you certainly are looking at some expensive maintenance a lot sooner than if you bought new; Not just because you are further along on the maintenance schedule, But because depending on the model the maintenance schedule is improved with newer vehicles, with less parts needed to be repaired or replaced, with much further time in between .

Not to mention the savings potential for improved fuel economy on a new versus used cars of the age you are talking about. Iím not saying all this to say new is definitely better, but there are some thoughtful reasons why people might consider buying new a more financially beneficial option for them. Itís not always about having the newest in the fanciest. I feel like most of the rules people here are arguing against for buying new, just simply donít apply or are highly mitigated by this group and anyone else who intends to drive their cars all the way to the end.

MMMarbleheader

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 152
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #103 on: August 13, 2018, 03:58:45 AM »
In a vacuum it's not face punch worthy but there are hidden costs of a new car depending on where you live. In Massachusetts the big things are collision insurance (you lender make you buy it) and excise tax. Combined these could be $1000+ the first year or two.

dustinst22

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #104 on: August 13, 2018, 09:04:21 AM »
In a vacuum it's not face punch worthy but there are hidden costs of a new car depending on where you live. In Massachusetts the big things are collision insurance (you lender make you buy it) and excise tax. Combined these could be $1000+ the first year or two.

Great point and reminder on the higher insurance premiums with new cars.  And for those who are advocating financing their vehicle, the banks require higher coverage amounts increasing your insurance premium even further.  It's easy to get overly focused on purchase price and lose the forest for the trees.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 09:16:15 AM by dustinst22 »

inline five

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #105 on: August 13, 2018, 09:48:05 AM »
You guys really need to go buy a small assortment of hand tools and learn to work on cars yourself.

They are really fairly inexpensive to work on as long as you don't have a newer European car. Tons of YouTube videos on how to fix the common cars yourself.

I replaced my spark plugs for $5.50 for example. A new coil for my neighbors car was $10. I even replaced my transmission over a weekend using one from a car I bought for $250 with a bad motor. Stole all the sensors off if it too so when mine go I have a backup. That actually ended up being free because it came with a new radiator and my original one had just developed a leak. I replaced my wife's air compressor and drier for under $250 including the refill which I did myself with a $45 gauge set.

I live in typical suburbia with a two car garage. I park both cars inside.

Right now for me the sweet spot would be a $6k-$8k Toyota Matrix or similar. Fairly simplistic without major electronics.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 09:50:03 AM by inline five »

the_fixer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • Location: Colorado
  • mind on my money money on my mind
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #106 on: August 13, 2018, 09:56:15 AM »
People on this board seem to be environmentally friendly as well and I see buying a used car as more environmentally friendly compared to buying a new car. A large portion of the environmental impact has already been expended during the manufacturing process and the less new cars that need to be produced the less materials need to be mined, refined, applied and consumed.

Also the newer the car the higher registration and taxes and the first few years they really sock it to you here in Colorado.

An example of buying at the bottom of the depreciation curve is my mom buys older Toyota trucks the most basic options she can find for her cleaning company and her daily driver no power options, 2wd, single cab manual transmission typically 10 - 15 years old with around 120k miles on them.

She keeps them until they die or the cost of a repair is more than the truck is worth to her around 400k to 500k miles.

She spends very little on the purchase, very little to maintain them and typically sells them for close to what they cost her to buy them when she is done with them.

Since I am a car person she calls me with questions about repairs for anything other than normal maintenance and I would estimate that she has about 1 repair per vehicle per year beyond the normal maintenance such as oil changes, tires, wipers and stuff like that.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


MrFancypants

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 565
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #107 on: August 13, 2018, 10:11:14 AM »
You guys really need to go buy a small assortment of hand tools and learn to work on cars yourself.

They are really fairly inexpensive to work on as long as you don't have a newer European car. Tons of YouTube videos on how to fix the common cars yourself.

I replaced my spark plugs for $5.50 for example. A new coil for my neighbors car was $10. I even replaced my transmission over a weekend using one from a car I bought for $250 with a bad motor. Stole all the sensors off if it too so when mine go I have a backup. That actually ended up being free because it came with a new radiator and my original one had just developed a leak. I replaced my wife's air compressor and drier for under $250 including the refill which I did myself with a $45 gauge set.

I live in typical suburbia with a two car garage. I park both cars inside.

Right now for me the sweet spot would be a $6k-$8k Toyota Matrix or similar. Fairly simplistic without major electronics.

Some newer European cars arenít that bad. For example, a five cylinder Volkswagen as found in a Golf or Jetta is just as solid as the equivalent Toyota (IMO).

Also, electronics arenít so bad. With them the car will often just tell you whatís wrong with it.

PDXTabs

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 697
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #108 on: August 13, 2018, 10:44:56 AM »
Great point and reminder on the higher insurance premiums with new cars.  And for those who are advocating financing their vehicle, the banks require higher coverage amounts increasing your insurance premium even further.

My 2014 Focus (even when it was brand new) cost exactly the same as our 2005 Subaru Impreza for the same coverage. Now, depending on the used car you might not want or need the same coverage, I get that.

dustinst22

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2018, 10:57:22 AM »


My 2014 Focus (even when it was brand new) cost exactly the same as our 2005 Subaru Impreza for the same coverage. Now, depending on the used car you might not want or need the same coverage, I get that.

Two completely different vehicles so its not really comparable.  Compare two exact same makes, one new and one several years old.  Make sure to also compare the coverage necessary when financing the vehicle. 

PDXTabs

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 697
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #110 on: August 13, 2018, 12:59:52 PM »
Two completely different vehicles so its not really comparable.  Compare two exact same makes, one new and one several years old.  Make sure to also compare the coverage necessary when financing the vehicle.

That was really hard when I wanted to buy a new or gently used manual transmission hatchback in 2014. Specifically, the mk3 focus was only introduced in 2012, so I couldn't magically make them older - just like the previous poster couldn't magically get a 0% loan on a used car. I chose the best car that I could find on my local market at the time that fit my needs. Now that the mk3 focus has been out a little longer I would happily re-buy the exact same car (used).

NorthernBlitz

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #111 on: August 13, 2018, 01:11:55 PM »
People on this board seem to be environmentally friendly as well and I see buying a used car as more environmentally friendly compared to buying a new car. A large portion of the environmental impact has already been expended during the manufacturing process and the less new cars that need to be produced the less materials need to be mined, refined, applied and consumed.

Also the newer the car the higher registration and taxes and the first few years they really sock it to you here in Colorado.

An example of buying at the bottom of the depreciation curve is my mom buys older Toyota trucks the most basic options she can find for her cleaning company and her daily driver no power options, 2wd, single cab manual transmission typically 10 - 15 years old with around 120k miles on them.

She keeps them until they die or the cost of a repair is more than the truck is worth to her around 400k to 500k miles.

She spends very little on the purchase, very little to maintain them and typically sells them for close to what they cost her to buy them when she is done with them.

Since I am a car person she calls me with questions about repairs for anything other than normal maintenance and I would estimate that she has about 1 repair per vehicle per year beyond the normal maintenance such as oil changes, tires, wipers and stuff like that.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I think the environmental impact is more about how long you keep the car than whether you buy new used.

If you keep a car until it's 12 - 15 years old, you're probably doing well financially and environmentally regardless of whether you bought it new or used.


Also: do they salt the roads where your Mom lives? My experience in Ontario Canada and upstate NY has been that cars fail based on frame rust more often than mileage (I drive close to the average number of miles / year). I think that vehicle life is a function of where those vehicles were driven.

I do know people here that will fly down to CA or FL to buy older used cars and then drive them back up north, but I've never done that myself.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 01:15:59 PM by NorthernBlitz »

inline five

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #112 on: August 13, 2018, 01:43:49 PM »
You guys really need to go buy a small assortment of hand tools and learn to work on cars yourself.

They are really fairly inexpensive to work on as long as you don't have a newer European car. Tons of YouTube videos on how to fix the common cars yourself.

I replaced my spark plugs for $5.50 for example. A new coil for my neighbors car was $10. I even replaced my transmission over a weekend using one from a car I bought for $250 with a bad motor. Stole all the sensors off if it too so when mine go I have a backup. That actually ended up being free because it came with a new radiator and my original one had just developed a leak. I replaced my wife's air compressor and drier for under $250 including the refill which I did myself with a $45 gauge set.

I live in typical suburbia with a two car garage. I park both cars inside.

Right now for me the sweet spot would be a $6k-$8k Toyota Matrix or similar. Fairly simplistic without major electronics.

Some newer European cars arenít that bad. For example, a five cylinder Volkswagen as found in a Golf or Jetta is just as solid as the equivalent Toyota (IMO).

Also, electronics arenít so bad. With them the car will often just tell you whatís wrong with it.

Holy hell please don't own a VW out of warranty!!!

Yes they are nice cars to drive but parts are expensive and the cars just fall apart!!

Just look at the coolant and power steering fluid VW specs...ridiculous. Over-engineered POS.

Look at what sort of damage the high pressure fuel pump grenading does to their TDi's. It's a $10k+ repair normally out of warranty effecting 1:20 cars.

martyconlonontherun

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 169
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #113 on: August 13, 2018, 01:59:32 PM »
Since we are talking new versus used, I was looking for used but want a newer car that will last 6 years before any real issues. I have a job where I can't mess around we it not starting in the winter. I know there must be a lot of rebates in the new price I don't qualify for, but there doesn't seem to be much of a break on the used car market. Am I missing something here? I feel the depreciation of the new car is taken from trade-ins, not buying. Any advice? I'm looking for a car where I can get a car around $16k or less. Open to suggestions. 

New (Demo'ed for 3k): https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/742781478/overview/

Used: https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?localVehicles=true&mdId=21413&mkId=20053&mlgId=28869&page=1&perPage=50&rd=200&searchSource=GN_REFINEMENT&showMore=true&sort=price-lowest&yrId=30031936&yrId=35797618&zc=53209

the_fixer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • Location: Colorado
  • mind on my money money on my mind
Re: Bought a New Car- Do I Deserve a Facepunch?
« Reply #114 on: August 13, 2018, 09:07:59 PM »
People on this board seem to be environmentally friendly as well and I see buying a used car as more environmentally friendly compared to buying a new car. A large portion of the environmental impact has already been expended during the manufacturing process and the less new cars that need to be produced the less materials need to be mined, refined, applied and consumed.

Also the newer the car the higher registration and taxes and the first few years they really sock it to you here in Colorado.

An example of buying at the bottom of the depreciation curve is my mom buys older Toyota trucks the most basic options she can find for her cleaning company and her daily driver no power options, 2wd, single cab manual transmission typically 10 - 15 years old with around 120k miles on them.

She keeps them until they die or the cost of a repair is more than the truck is worth to her around 400k to 500k miles.

She spends very little on the purchase, very little to maintain them and typically sells them for close to what they cost her to buy them when she is done with them.

Since I am a car person she calls me with questions about repairs for anything other than normal maintenance and I would estimate that she has about 1 repair per vehicle per year beyond the normal maintenance such as oil changes, tires, wipers and stuff like that.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I think the environmental impact is more about how long you keep the car than whether you buy new used.

If you keep a car until it's 12 - 15 years old, you're probably doing well financially and environmentally regardless of whether you bought it new or used.


Also: do they salt the roads where your Mom lives? My experience in Ontario Canada and upstate NY has been that cars fail based on frame rust more often than mileage (I drive close to the average number of miles / year). I think that vehicle life is a function of where those vehicles were driven.

I do know people here that will fly down to CA or FL to buy older used cars and then drive them back up north, but I've never done that myself.
They use mag chloride which is corrosive but we have a dry climate so rust is less of an issue compared to the rust belt

 https://www.hcn.org/issues/270/14621

----------

RE environmental impact of buying a new VS used car.

Manufacturing a new car takes an amazing amount of energy and materials such as wires, metal, plastic and glass each requiring a manufacturing process of it's own.

I get where you are coming from someone needs to be the first person to buy a car but by doing so they are commissioning the manufacturing of a massive amount of materials that are then assembled into a car

There are plenty of great used cars out there but we all want the latest and greatest.

A comparison would be buying a pure breed vs a pet that needs adoption.



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk