Biggest spending category - taxes!

[Gin1984]

Here's the facts: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

Using the table, someone going from 5% to 10% savings rate shaves 14 YEARS of working. 10% to 15% shaves AN ADDITIONAL 8 years. How does this compare to a 6.2% soc security tax that is mostly squandered?

It is your opinion it is squandered.  People elderly live mostly on SS and I feel that part of being a developed nation is not having people die like they did in the depression because they are too old or too sick to work.  I am happy to pay it, as a safety net that many need.  And I am young, I'll likely never need it, but I think safety nets for our weak are part of being civilized.  If you don't want to pay taxes go move somewhere that does not have them and give up your US citizenship, then tell us how great it is.

[DoubleDown]

I have never heard the Parable of the Poor Widow (a profound lesson in giving, compassion, and eternal rewards) related and then a response given of, "Jesus and the widow are dumbasses." That's the saddest thing I've heard all month (unless the Jordanian pilot was burned alive this month, then it's a close second to the saddest thing I've heard).

I see no profound lessons or eternal rewards here.

Please explain what is sad about it? I still see no good refutation of the facts that:
1) Someone poor giving away all of their money isn't a good idea - assuming they need to actually... I don't know... eat and live?
2) A few cents of giving is worth less than large amounts to those recieving the chairty

Jesus should have said "Hey poor widow, nice gesture but you can't help others (for long) if you can't even feed yourself." and "Hey rich guys, thanks for helping out! Try to help out more!"

Then I would have no problem with the parable.

Instead he is chastising the people giving away significant quantities because he apparently can't compute that lots of money > little money. The relative amount given compared to the wealth of the giver means nothing to those receiving the aid - the people receiving the charity is who Jesus should care about the most.

I tend to always look at results.

e.g. Let's say you're starving and some other starving person gives you 2 pennies - all that they had, you are still starving and they are still starving. Are you better off with that or better off with a rich dude dropping $1k in your lap even though it's 0.001% of his wealth? Now you can eat and you can get the 2 penny guy some food too - a much better result. That's how I look at it.

So yes, if someone poor (i.e. can't make ends meet) gives away all of their money, I consider them a dumbass.
If someone encourages poor people to give away all their money I consider them a dumbass as well.

I'm continuing the off-topic derailment, but the point (and beauty) of the story is exactly what you're railing against. It's a beautiful thing to give everything you have, even if it's not the most logical thing to do. The widow has given everything because she believes there are others worse off than her. She put it all out there. It's about her soul, not how many lives she is actually able to help or save with her (meager, relative to others) contribution. A central theme of Jesus' message to mankind is that we should be seeking eternal rewards (in heaven) by doing good things like the poor widow, and not seeking material rewards in this life -- i.e., "You can't take it with you."

You may disagree, but your alternative message ("You'd have to be a dumbass to put everything in there!") probably would not have astounded and transformed humanity like Jesus did.

[GuitarStv]

If you truly believe that giving is the most important thing that can be done, the most Godlike, and something that will get you into heaven, how are you able to type this on an internet forum while living in poverty on the street after having given away all your worldly possessions?  Hypocrisy?

[Gin1984]

I have never heard the Parable of the Poor Widow (a profound lesson in giving, compassion, and eternal rewards) related and then a response given of, "Jesus and the widow are dumbasses." That's the saddest thing I've heard all month (unless the Jordanian pilot was burned alive this month, then it's a close second to the saddest thing I've heard).

I see no profound lessons or eternal rewards here.

Please explain what is sad about it? I still see no good refutation of the facts that:
1) Someone poor giving away all of their money isn't a good idea - assuming they need to actually... I don't know... eat and live?
2) A few cents of giving is worth less than large amounts to those recieving the chairty

Jesus should have said "Hey poor widow, nice gesture but you can't help others (for long) if you can't even feed yourself." and "Hey rich guys, thanks for helping out! Try to help out more!"

Then I would have no problem with the parable.

Instead he is chastising the people giving away significant quantities because he apparently can't compute that lots of money > little money. The relative amount given compared to the wealth of the giver means nothing to those receiving the aid - the people receiving the charity is who Jesus should care about the most.

I tend to always look at results.

e.g. Let's say you're starving and some other starving person gives you 2 pennies - all that they had, you are still starving and they are still starving. Are you better off with that or better off with a rich dude dropping $1k in your lap even though it's 0.001% of his wealth? Now you can eat and you can get the 2 penny guy some food too - a much better result. That's how I look at it.

So yes, if someone poor (i.e. can't make ends meet) gives away all of their money, I consider them a dumbass.
If someone encourages poor people to give away all their money I consider them a dumbass as well.

I'm continuing the off-topic derailment, but the point (and beauty) of the story is exactly what you're railing against. It's a beautiful thing to give everything you have, even if it's not the most logical thing to do. The widow has given everything because she believes there are others worse off than her. She put it all out there. It's about her soul, not how many lives she is actually able to help or save with her (meager, relative to others) contribution. A central theme of Jesus' message to mankind is that we should be seeking eternal rewards (in heaven) by doing good things like the poor widow, and not seeking material rewards in this life -- i.e., "You can't take it with you."

You may disagree, but your alternative message ("You'd have to be a dumbass to put everything in there!") probably would not have astounded and transformed humanity like Jesus did.

Jesus' message gain popularity because of Constantine the great making it his religion and forcing the factions to compromise and St. Paul for making Jesus' message palatable for the Romans.  How exactly did his message astound and transform?   

[dividendman]

I see no profound lessons or eternal rewards here.

Please explain what is sad about it? I still see no good refutation of the facts that:
1) Someone poor giving away all of their money isn't a good idea - assuming they need to actually... I don't know... eat and live?
2) A few cents of giving is worth less than large amounts to those recieving the chairty

Jesus should have said "Hey poor widow, nice gesture but you can't help others (for long) if you can't even feed yourself." and "Hey rich guys, thanks for helping out! Try to help out more!"

Then I would have no problem with the parable.

Instead he is chastising the people giving away significant quantities because he apparently can't compute that lots of money > little money. The relative amount given compared to the wealth of the giver means nothing to those receiving the aid - the people receiving the charity is who Jesus should care about the most.

I tend to always look at results.

e.g. Let's say you're starving and some other starving person gives you 2 pennies - all that they had, you are still starving and they are still starving. Are you better off with that or better off with a rich dude dropping $1k in your lap even though it's 0.001% of his wealth? Now you can eat and you can get the 2 penny guy some food too - a much better result. That's how I look at it.

So yes, if someone poor (i.e. can't make ends meet) gives away all of their money, I consider them a dumbass.
If someone encourages poor people to give away all their money I consider them a dumbass as well.

I'm continuing the off-topic derailment, but the point (and beauty) of the story is exactly what you're railing against. It's a beautiful thing to give everything you have, even if it's not the most logical thing to do. The widow has given everything because she believes there are others worse off than her. She put it all out there. It's about her soul, not how many lives she is actually able to help or save with her (meager, relative to others) contribution. A central theme of Jesus' message to mankind is that we should be seeking eternal rewards (in heaven) by doing good things like the poor widow, and not seeking material rewards in this life -- i.e., "You can't take it with you."

You may disagree, but your alternative message ("You'd have to be a dumbass to put everything in there!") probably would not have astounded and transformed humanity like Jesus did.

Yeah, well, it may be fine and dandy as advice on the MrJesusMustache forum on how to best plan to make sure your soul is on the up and up, but this is the MrMoneyMustache forums where we care about money. Of course I am only talking about the financial advice Jesus gave there - is it good financially? No. Am I talking about the logic of what Jesus said? Yes. The logic is poor and does not result in a better life for either the widow, the people she is trying to help, the rich people, or Jesus himself - so it is a poor piece of advice on how to live. I agree it is great advice on how to die. If I was dying tomorrow I'd give it all away.

I'd say Jesus is mustachian on the frugalness/humbleness part (and he seems to rock a pretty sick mustache and beard) but sucks shit on his wealth management and hence his crappy story with the widow. Hopefully that poor woman didn't end up on the street dying of disease because she gave away what little she had!