Author Topic: Being frugal in a non frugal family  (Read 6031 times)

Melayahm

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Being frugal in a non frugal family
« on: March 08, 2015, 08:11:38 AM »
Hi

I guess my first post is going to be a question I always come up against whenever I consider going frugal. My other half, and to a lesser extent, my daughter, are not interested in living this way. My partner grew up in poverty, basically, and I have a feeling that this past has lead to his rather spendthrift nature now that he's in a well paid job. He has a bad ebay habit, and just buys whatever takes his fancy. Apart from filling the house with clutter that I cannot ever defeat (If I tidy a clear space, he just fills it up again), it also means that he could have probably paid off the mortgage by  now, or we could have gone on holidays here and there (although working hours have hampered that idea a lot in any case). So whilst I might like to live frugally, (and in a way, have to, as I earn just over a 10th of what he does), I would be trying to bale the ocean with a thimble by trying to do it alone. Daughter is used to, through no real fault of her own, getting whatever she needs or asks for and so wouldn't know frugality if it spoke to her on Skype. Any thoughts, ideas, tips from others in similar positions? Thanks
Caroline

caliq

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2015, 08:20:38 AM »
Will your husband agree to having a certain % of the monthly income automatically diverted out of whatever account he's spending from and towards mutually agreed upon goals, like the mortgage or investment accounts or something? 

If it's not there, they can't spend it?

Also, if you're not maxing tax advantaged accounts, would sitting him down and showing him how much more money the tax savings would get you make a difference?

If his retirement plan is essentially to live off Social Security, you can go to their website and estimate your monthly benefit.  It's really not very high, so that might be a big shock to him -- he might realize that he has to cut back some now in order to be able to spend on any "wants" later in life. 

YoungMoney

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 10:50:35 AM »
Hi

I guess my first post is going to be a question I always come up against whenever I consider going frugal. My other half, and to a lesser extent, my daughter, are not interested in living this way. My partner grew up in poverty, basically, and I have a feeling that this past has lead to his rather spendthrift nature now that he's in a well paid job. He has a bad ebay habit, and just buys whatever takes his fancy. Apart from filling the house with clutter that I cannot ever defeat (If I tidy a clear space, he just fills it up again), it also means that he could have probably paid off the mortgage by  now, or we could have gone on holidays here and there (although working hours have hampered that idea a lot in any case). So whilst I might like to live frugally, (and in a way, have to, as I earn just over a 10th of what he does), I would be trying to bale the ocean with a thimble by trying to do it alone. Daughter is used to, through no real fault of her own, getting whatever she needs or asks for and so wouldn't know frugality if it spoke to her on Skype. Any thoughts, ideas, tips from others in similar positions? Thanks
Caroline

To the bolded part, are you keeping your finances separate? Do you have a say in household finances or just the money you bring home? I'd work on getting things combined and getting on the same page (even if it takes some time).


lizzie

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2015, 11:32:21 AM »
This has been a challenge for me too. Here are a few things that have helped and some things I've learned not to do:

1. The most important step I took was figuring out some financial goals, creating a plan for getting us there, and making a spreadsheet to show how it would work. I showed it to DH as part of a "date night" we set aside for the purpose. With the spreadsheet, he could really see what we needed to do to get to where we want to be. I think a lightbulb went on for him at that moment, although it was still really the beginning of the process.

2.  The main focus of the financial plan involved automatic deposits into investment accounts. I didn't focus so much on budgeting or cutting back in specific areas. Instead I showed how much we'd have to live on overall aside from what we'd be stashing away. Focusing on individual things, like cutting this or that area of spending, just caused DH to feel like I was trying to take things away. Also, automatic investing takes away the temptation DH has to spend $ on stuff just because $ is sitting around in the checking account. So rather than me having to be the scold, there's just a natural limit on our budget.

3. After I got DH on board with this new plan, then I started looking for ways to cut fat out of our budget. I think this helped because rather than feeling like something was being taken away, it felt like we were adding $ to our budget by identifying where $ was going to waste and recapturing it.

4. If you can, try to let some little things/small luxuries go. For example, my DH and DDs love them some Starbucks and it's something they kind of bond over. I know DH has been making an effort not to go so often so when they do I just bite my tongue.

5. Depending on how old your DD is, you can just be upfront about changes you're making and why. With us, we plan to pay for our DDs to go to college, so I can just explain that it's very expensive and we need to set aside $ for it. I also talk to them about how luxurious our lives really are compared to most of the world. I've also explained that when they go out into the world they're not going to have much money and it's better for them to know how to operate on a budget. They don't necessarily like it but I think they get it. All of this has to wait until you get your DH on board though. If kids know you have conflict over $ they can exploit that to their advantage in a hot second.

Westoftown

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2015, 12:26:14 PM »
Sounds like, since you two aren't on the same page, you should budget.  Then, whatever is in his budget for fun things, he can spend.  You shouldn't question him on it- as long as its in his budget.  Meanwhile, he can't overspend and you'll have money for saving/retirement.  In any case, you both need to get on the same page or this is going to cause a lot of issues.  Also it shouldn't matter how much each of you contributes.  My wife doesn't earn as much as I do - but it doesn't give me the right to spend more.

Melayahm

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2015, 01:51:26 AM »
Thanks for all your replies.

Yes, we definitely aren't on the same page. I've never wanted a joint bank account, (which I think is what some were suggesting) because his account pays all the bills, and I would be leary of spending too much myself, unknowingly and leaving us short for those, although that would probably be unlikely. I'm pretty sure if I asked him, he'd say he has the money under control, and I definitely don't have a head for money, if he tried explaining all the ins and outs, my brain would freeze up. I don't think that there's a problem with things like his pension, he definitely won't be on just the state pension, and hopefully the mortgage will be paid off by then (we have an endowment mortgage and a repayment mortgage, people in UK will know what those mean, I don't know if you have the same in the US. The repayment one was to make up the estimated shortfall  of the endowment one).

I guess what I'm more asking about is the difference in our ways of thinking, that I can see that if he didn't spend so much on not only his hobbies which everybody needs, including me,  but on whims and crap that just clutters up the house, we could have the little holidays that my sister has. And he doesn't seem to see how much the value of the house, when we eventually sell it, is adversely affected by the state that it's in. I need to think how to, subtly, educate him in the ways of the Mustachian, as I have learned, most certainly, that he does NOT like to be 'told' how to do Anything. He needs to think that he has thought of it for himself.

Merrie

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2015, 02:06:12 AM »
My husband and I are definitely not on the same page either. Our kids are still really little so too small to have an opinion, though I'm working already to teach the older one (3 1/2) the idea that we don't buy whatever we want just because we happen to see it, and the phrase "That's not what I want to spend our money on" makes a frequent appearance.

But my husband... He thinks debt is just a part of life and something you always have, and he is really resistant to any attempts to alter the level of luxury he lives at. I can only make changes if they cause basically no inconvenience and don't require him to do anything differently. He knows that he has to ask me first on the big things, but he fritters away $5 here and $10 there on (in my opinion) stupid crap, and doesn't get why it bugs me. In the past we've had an allowance system for him, but we disagree on how much it should be and what it should cover... probably need to get back to that though. I know I need to sit him down with me and have him help pay the bills so he can really see where the money is going.

He just doesn't get the same charge out of finding a deal, or finding a way to cut back, that I do. We can pay our bills and so he doesn't see the big deal. While he understands that I despise my student loan debt (72k @ 5.3%, which is down from the previous 6.8%!) he doesn't find saving money to sink extra money into the loan to be motivating... I think it is too big a goal. I have to get that loan gone before I can even think about pursuing FIRE, but the idea of me being able to cut back at work isn't motivating for him either, even though he knows my job really frustrates me sometimes.

Other possible approaches I have entertained include when he does something to save money, allocating that saved money instead to something he does want--for instance, a repair to our fireplace, which he has been agitating for for years. 

Retired To Win

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2015, 06:57:09 AM »
Lead by example.

(1) Be frugal whenever you find it reasonable to be -- and then show/announce/document it to your family.  Make what you are doing -- and what you have saved -- public.  Lead by example on spending.

(2) Sequester your frugality savings.  Find a way to take the money you save from each frugal action you take and separate it from your family's core spendthrift cash flow.  Set up a savings or investment account and put that money in it. On a weekly basis, maybe.  Just calculate it from your receipts, write a check* from your family account to your sequestered account, and announce it.  Again, lead by example on saving.

*And I would not take any guff about this.  If your husband can write a check for an impulse EBay buy, you can write a check for a "non-impulse" frugal saving.

Good luck!

fartface

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2015, 07:12:53 AM »
Aargh...this one was difficult to read.

I don't think I could stay in a marriage where all I was surrounded by was SPEND - SPEND - SPEND.

You have two choices: try not to let it bother you and carry on as you are -- let your husband be who he is

OR

Leave. Get yourself a place and lifestyle where you're in control.

I really don't know what I'd do if I had to co-habitate with a partner like this. Why does he think it's ok to spoil your daughter? Has he read ANY MMM? You do your children NO favors by making their lives so easy, they have nothing to earn for themselves. As a matter of fact, you're very likely sentencing your daughter to a life of UNHAPPINESS and dependency.


WynnDuffy73

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2015, 07:51:11 AM »
I got my wife to agree to her own set monthly spending limit.   I transfer that amount of money to a prepaid debit card each month.   She spends that and only that on whatever she wants.  It's worked very well for us so far.

Doing the same thing with a credit card didn't work for her because she kept over our agreed upon limit.  With a prepaíd debit card we no longer have that problem.  We haven't really argued about money in 2 years. 

Livewell

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2015, 10:19:27 AM »
My gap is not as large a gap to bridge as yours, however I have some of the same challenges.  Take it slow, lead by example, take deliberate steps (like the sequester suggestion).  Lifestyles do not change overnight for anyone.

My wife and I both work, and while somewhat frugal she has not gotten the MMM bug like me.  I'm the finance guy in our house, and while her saving rate is not as high as mine (I make more money than she does) she does let me manage her investments.  I forget the exact article but mmm mentioned a reader that did a PowerPoint summary of the path to FIRE for his spouse, which I did (high level, lots of fun pictures and comments in with the serious dry stuff) and had success with it.

When I first found the FIRE community I was instantly into it.  I shared this with her and let's just say all the typical responses followed.  I learned I had to back off and lead by example.  In the two years since she now talks a lot more about the crazy lifestyles of some of her "earn and spend" friends and I talked her out of a bigger house.  So some progress. 

Stay at it!  If you love them be patient and let them close some of that gap on their own...
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 10:22:59 AM by Livewell »

HappyMargo

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2015, 12:07:44 PM »
My husband and I are definitely not on the same page either. .... the idea that we don't buy whatever we want just because we happen to see it, and the phrase "That's not what I want to spend our money on" makes a frequent appearance.

But my husband... He thinks debt is just a part of life and something you always have, and he is really resistant to any attempts to alter the level of luxury he lives at. I can only make changes if they cause basically no inconvenience and don't require him to do anything differently....

He just doesn't get the same charge out of finding a deal, or finding a way to cut back, that I do....


Oh Merrie (and Melayahm too), so much of what you've written hits so close to home for me!

My DH is truly a spendy pants, while even as a young child I was a frugal saver by nature.  Complete opposites!

I'd begun to worry that we'd both be working till 70 years old (neither of our jobs provide pension, just soc.sec.)   But then I found ERE, MMM & ER sites about 3 years ago & realized there was another way to live & picked up great ideas from others that are frugal.  Now I'm saving with a blazing purpose!

Please be patient & don't give up on your family.  It has taken over these past 3 years of slow & steady progress with DH, but he is finally coming around! 

He still has no interest in reading MMM or any personal finance info at all.  So instead I've lead by example.  Maxing out 401k & HSA & Roth myself.  Then I started showing some illustrations on calculators how easy it is to tuck away a little $$ each month, pretend it's not there & let it grow. 

We had "a date" with some nice red wine & we casually chatted over a presentation I prepared outlining an awesome future we can share together. I let him make up the numbers he felt were do-able to contribute monthly, plugged into calculators to see the outcome... It worked!! He finally set up a pre-tax retirement account & has it auto-deducted. YAY!   The next step is opening a Vanguard account for him too.

After YEARS of patient gentle persuasion, DH now sees the future goal too & has changed his spendy pants ways (not entirely, but an amazing amount for him!)   I will be completely FIRE at age 53 (instead of 70.)  And he wants to aim for 62 for his FIRE date, maybe even 60.  I'm so proud of his progress!!

So keep reading these forums (I have found great ideas here) & don't give up.  Progress may seem glacially slow, but it can happen.  You can still create a future together your whole family can get behind.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 12:10:42 PM by HappyMargo »

lise

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Re: Being frugal in a non frugal family
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2015, 12:36:11 PM »

You have two choices: try not to let it bother you and carry on as you are -- let your husband be who he is

OR

Leave. Get yourself a place and lifestyle where you're in control.


Life is not as black and white as this ...