Author Topic: Becoming a Pilot for Fun  (Read 21825 times)

BlueMR2

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2017, 05:46:31 AM »

You don't have to overinflate anything if straight up comparing single trips.  If you're going places that aren't main route, the commercial costs are ridiculous.  Going from my town to where the in-laws live (for 2 of us) was going to be $900 commercial.  We did it total cost for $360, and were able to take 6 people instead of just 2!  (gotta love the PA32-300!). 


If you only spent $360 on a round trip Cherokee rental you could've driven it for about $30. For maybe an extra hour or two total travel time in most instances.

Airplanes are time machines. Buying time costs money.

1.25 (headwind side) hour flight each way.  The drive is 4.5 hours each way.  This is one of those perfect edge cases for flying.  There's no direct way to get there by road, but you can go direct by air.  Didn't have that many extra hours available for the trip that time.  That's why we were looking commercial.  The fact that flying ourselves came out as a winner was quite the surprise to all of us.  Your drive cost is totally wrong too.  I've got old small paid for 4 cylinder cars that get pretty good gas mileage and the per mile cost is still slightly over 25 cents a mile.  With 6 people we could have needed 2 vehicles and the other people have new cars with poor gas mileage, so are probably closer to 50 cents a mile.  520 miles round trip by road assuming the low end 25 cents a mile makes it at least $130 to get 2 of us there and back (which, to your point, would have been cheaper than flying even the cheaper airplanes available.  However, the trip as completed requires adding in the anti-mustaches and we're up to $390 driving for 6.

Normally we do the drive, but occasionally making the flight can make sense *if* all your other costs leading up to it were already paid for.  :-)  To learn to fly to save money, no.  There's no way that makes sense!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 06:24:39 AM by BlueMR2 »

Goldielocks

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2017, 07:04:21 PM »
The point is -- why did you HAVE to go to that specific location?   There are usually other options.

Syonyk

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2017, 07:05:48 PM »
Family? Friends?

ryantids

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2017, 09:33:07 PM »
Interesting topic, I had fun reading it.  I am an airline pilot with -11,000 hrs.  I have not flown GA in about 12 years.  I think about it sometimes but the cost and some safety considerations always reel me in. Maybe someday, I am sure it would be fun!

Syonyk

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2017, 10:11:49 PM »
Yeah, your single engine gross weight climb beats my solo winter climb...

Goldielocks

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2017, 11:53:40 PM »
Family? Friends?
LOL,  are you unsure if you have family or friends in the location that you can't drive to? 

The times that we flew to visit family or friends instead of driving were quite few, and an alternate method, including adding a day to a trip, could easily be found if we drove..., or the trip was not a very vital one to take (because weather could cancel plans on short notice, so you don't entrust vital trips to private personal aircraft....)   Usually the flight / trips were for a fun sight seeing day or even overnight to a remote location... a day that could have easily been replaced with an alternate activity that did no involve flying, anyway.

I met one fellow that flew to a remote job in california each week   / day, it allowed him to be home with famlly a few times a week instead of living in a motel next to the construction site 4 hr drive away.  He said it was cheaper than a motel... IDK.   There were still challenges about weather and missing work a few times, though.

:-)

inline five

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #56 on: August 28, 2017, 05:35:54 AM »
Yeah, your single engine gross weight climb beats my solo winter climb...

Not in an A321

dycker1978

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2017, 09:11:24 AM »

You don't have to overinflate anything if straight up comparing single trips.  If you're going places that aren't main route, the commercial costs are ridiculous.  Going from my town to where the in-laws live (for 2 of us) was going to be $900 commercial.  We did it total cost for $360, and were able to take 6 people instead of just 2!  (gotta love the PA32-300!). 


If you only spent $360 on a round trip Cherokee rental you could've driven it for about $30. For maybe an extra hour or two total travel time in most instances.

Airplanes are time machines. Buying time costs money.

1.25 (headwind side) hour flight each way.  The drive is 4.5 hours each way.  This is one of those perfect edge cases for flying.  There's no direct way to get there by road, but you can go direct by air.  Didn't have that many extra hours available for the trip that time.  That's why we were looking commercial.  The fact that flying ourselves came out as a winner was quite the surprise to all of us.  Your drive cost is totally wrong too.  I've got old small paid for 4 cylinder cars that get pretty good gas mileage and the per mile cost is still slightly over 25 cents a mile.  With 6 people we could have needed 2 vehicles and the other people have new cars with poor gas mileage, so are probably closer to 50 cents a mile.  520 miles round trip by road assuming the low end 25 cents a mile makes it at least $130 to get 2 of us there and back (which, to your point, would have been cheaper than flying even the cheaper airplanes available.  However, the trip as completed requires adding in the anti-mustaches and we're up to $390 driving for 6.

Normally we do the drive, but occasionally making the flight can make sense *if* all your other costs leading up to it were already paid for.  :-)  To learn to fly to save money, no.  There's no way that makes sense!
25 cents a mile in a 4 cylinder?  That seems really high.  Here gas is about $4 a gallon, so at .25 a mile that would mean you get 16 MPG.  That seems really low.  My car get 45 MPG... 

sokoloff

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2017, 09:22:22 AM »
25 cents a mile in a 4 cylinder?  That seems really high.  Here gas is about $4 a gallon, so at .25 a mile that would mean you get 16 MPG.  That seems really low.  My car get 45 MPG...
Does your car not have tires and brakes that wear, oil that needs changed, value that decreases as additional miles accumulate, etc?

Syonyk

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2017, 10:12:04 AM »
25 cents a mile in a 4 cylinder?  That seems really high.  Here gas is about $4 a gallon, so at .25 a mile that would mean you get 16 MPG.  That seems really low.  My car get 45 MPG...

That's about right.  But you can take a shorter path as well flying vs driving, and it's a lot faster.  In Iowa, I could do a 3+ hour drive in under an hour easily (moving faster plus less distance as I could fly straight line).

Goldielocks

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2017, 11:19:37 AM »
25 cents a mile in a 4 cylinder?  That seems really high.  Here gas is about $4 a gallon, so at .25 a mile that would mean you get 16 MPG.  That seems really low.  My car get 45 MPG...

That's about right.  But you can take a shorter path as well flying vs driving, and it's a lot faster.  In Iowa, I could do a 3+ hour drive in under an hour easily (moving faster plus less distance as I could fly straight line).
Maybe iowa has more convenient airport locations, but after you land, you need to get from the airport to your destination...  Taxi?

sokoloff

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2017, 11:26:11 AM »
Maybe iowa has more convenient airport locations, but after you land, you need to get from the airport to your destination...  Taxi?
For personal visits, we can usually get picked up by whomever we're visiting (no different than when out-of-towners fly in to visit us; we generally pick them up at the airport or train station). If that doesn't work, Uber or cab. For very short visits, the airports often have a "courtesy car" that you can borrow for 60, 90, or 120 minutes [depending on airport] for a quick run into town, going out to grab lunch, etc. The car itself is free, though decency compels me to put some gas in or tip the line service agent who provides it.

For business trips, cab, Uber, or rental car.

Syonyk

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2017, 11:54:19 AM »
Maybe iowa has more convenient airport locations, but after you land, you need to get from the airport to your destination...  Taxi?

Most of the little airports had a crew car of some variety that usually ran.  Bring it back with a full tank and you were fine.

I knew a lot of people with folding bicycles as well for getting around at their destination.

Goldielocks

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2017, 06:11:30 PM »
Maybe iowa has more convenient airport locations, but after you land, you need to get from the airport to your destination...  Taxi?

Most of the little airports had a crew car of some variety that usually ran.  Bring it back with a full tank and you were fine.

I knew a lot of people with folding bicycles as well for getting around at their destination.
Yeah, my dad eventually bought the folding bicycles.  Most of his destinations did not have an actual staffed airport, so no convenience car, just a strip next to an awesome beach or mountain view, with a 20 minute ride to the local town by taxi... for which you paid the taxi for the round trip and waited over an hour to be picked up.

TempusFugit

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2017, 08:27:25 PM »
I haven't read through all of these responses, but hopefully someone has recommended learning to fly in a glider (sailplane).  I learned to fly at a local glider club about 18 years ago.    At most clubs, you can learn the fundamental stick and rudder skills along with the basics of flight planning and weather.  It is generally not very expensive (relative) if it's a member operated club.  When I learned, for example, there was no instructor fee, just rental of the club owned glider.  No fuel expense either.  So it was nowhere near as expensive as hourly instructor + rental costs at local airports for power lessons.   

If you want to go on a get power certified, you can do so much more quickly (meaning far less expense renting a plane and instructor hours) because you will already know the basic skills.  You will probably also get some inside information from your new flying friends about good instructors and programs. 

If you want to fly in order to travel by air, then you will want to get a powered license, but if you just want to experience the majesty of flight, gliders are the jam. 

It's been several years since I was active in flying gliders, but I've recently been drawn to paramotors, which look like an absolute blast.  They seem to be even one step closer to 'pure' flight than gliders.  I may have to give those a go. 

Uturn

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2017, 06:59:50 AM »
I recommend all pilots take at least a few glider lessons, even if you have no interest in flying gliders.  I learned more about how a plane flies and how to manage energy in 3 glider lessons than I did in the whole of my primary powered training. 

TempusFugit

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #66 on: August 29, 2017, 07:40:53 AM »
Gliders really are a great way to learn to fly. I don't have a power license (color blind) so I can't speak to the comparison other than to say that I have flown as a passenger in many small powered aircraft, and a glider is a lot more fun.  No engine noise, no console blocking your view.  It's very much like the comparison of a sailboat vs a power boat.   

Most people are surprised to learn that gliders can travel hundreds of miles and remain in the air for hours depending on the conditions. 

If you live anywhere near a glider club (google 'soaring society of america' to find local clubs) there's a good chance that they offer introductory flights for a very reasonable fee.  Back when I was in the club it was about $50 to get a ride in a 2-seater with one of the club pilots just to see what it was like. 


BlueMR2

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #67 on: August 29, 2017, 04:19:33 PM »
Most of the little airports had a crew car of some variety that usually ran.  Bring it back with a full tank and you were fine.

I knew a lot of people with folding bicycles as well for getting around at their destination.

Never done the bicycle thing as normally between crew car and walking we've always been fine.  Have rented a car before at our destination when we flew ourselves from the Great Lakes down to Florida.  You know, one of those routes that has stupid cheap commercial airfare.  That was a good example of a trip that was truly anti-mustachian!  Don't do that.  :-)

gliderpilot567

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #68 on: August 29, 2017, 06:32:07 PM »
There are mustachian ways to fly. I disagree with the argument that pleasure flying (or even utility flying - such as, to do a weekend commute) is automatically facepunch worthy; although not cheap, there are ways to do it at reasonable expense.... Now, the path is not extremely straightforward, but if you "hack the problem" intelligently enough you can pull it off.

There are two main barriers to entry.

1. Quals (getting certified as a pilot)
2. Iron (finding and paying for a plane to fly)... impacts #1, because usually you have to rent a plane hourly to get training

#2 has a lot of hidden costs: hangaring, insurance, maintenance for example.

Getting someone (like the USAF) to pay for your training and lots of flying is a great way to do it; but not open to everyone.

The other best way to do it is - don't go it alone. Find a club or a community. Hang out at the local airport, be an airport bum.... get to know all the old guys who work on and fly their planes on the weekends (hint - many of them are or were once instructors, and many are either licensed mechanics or built their own planes). Help them turn wrenches, wash airplanes (there is a reason they are called bugsmashers!), be a spare hand helping someone rebuild engines or install avionics, haul stuff around the airfield, do odd jobs. You will learn lots along the way, and in turn may get some flying time. It's a long game - it will take you a while; but in addition to getting a little flying you will build relationships and friendships, and learn a lot from the experienced old heads.

Learn about experimental aviation. Don't get thrown off by the word "experimental"... yes, there are idiots who build and fly deathtraps, but there is also a HUGE community of experienced and very skilled airplane builders and pilots in the US, and many well proven designs - some of which are more efficient, better performing, and *BY FAR* less expensive to operate and maintain than certificated types. Stroll down the shade hangar at the local airport: most of the old, beat up, rusted airplanes with flat tires and leaking oil fading away in the sun are the certificated types. The experimental ones are typically much better maintained (and more often flown!)

Glider/soaring clubs are probably really the only true mustachian flying answer. In addition to all the club/community benefits I mentioned above, you get to fly super cheap if you find a good club. As always, getting instruction will cost you some, but pound for pound and hour for hour gliders are cheaper than any other planes. You still learn airmanship skills that translate directly to powered flying should you take that step. For example, there is a club near me that requires $65 dues and 4 hours of duty, per month. For this you get free access to all the gliders, and only pay $1/100 feet for towing. On a good summer afternoon you can fly 4-5 hours for 20 bucks. By comparison, most powered light aircraft rent for well over $100 per hour, counted any time the engine is running (even during taxi), and that doesn't always include fuel.

Beware of the pitfalls of the money furnace: hangaring and insurance are big ones; maintenance (most especially for certificated types) is another. Fuel isn't cheap - if you can find an airplane that can run on car gas (learn about whether/how ethanol impacts your engine) you can cut fuel costs almost in half. By joining a club, you eliminate (or at worst, share) many of these costs.

Long story short, it is possible, but there are tons of things to learn and it's a very gnarly problem to figure out. It is an entirely different problem for every person and every location. But figure it out in a way that gets you into friendships/community, and you'll have a lot more fun while not spending as much as you would by just diving in alone.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 06:34:59 PM by gliderpilot567 »

Goldielocks

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #69 on: August 29, 2017, 09:37:16 PM »
Hey gliderpilot -- yep, I have thought off and on about getting my glider license, but the club / situation around here is a bit more challenging due to terrain (mountains, distance to club).  I have been a passenger on quite a few flights over the prairies growing up, and remember them fondly.  (and I hate reverb. engine noise).  Maybe one day.  It is about $2k here for the first season, including membership, lessons and airtime.

The OP was asking about a $12k spend.   He is (I assume) about 2 years out of masters degree in the workforce, has SLs, is married, has a toddler, and only about $40k equity on his home.   Early success with paying off some of the SL debt significantly over 2 years has led to desire to start spending money.    I know that the thread deviated from this quite a bit... but need to remind all here what the original request was..


In general, any expensive hobby (or pricey car or expensive travel) is best left until one has their debts paid off, is at least financially independent if not FIRED, and is able to free up free cash flow while making major life goals happen.

VoteCthulu

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #70 on: September 02, 2017, 11:36:36 AM »
Yeah, nope.  It's $12k!!    Twelve Thousand Dollars.  THOUSANDS of DOLLARS.   For an experience...you don't even get transportation to work or a place to live out of this...    This is something for when you FIRE.   In the meantime, just take ground school and  / or glider lessons...

$12k at 5% per year (net of inflation), for 25 years grows to $40k in today's dollars, for some, that is FIRE happening 1 year early.   Is your own pilot's license really worth an extra year of working to you?
I looked into it, and it wasn't worth it to me, but it certainly is to others.

I'm always amazed at how critical people can be of other people's value decisions while spending thousands on unnecessary conveniences like disposable diapers and air conditioning. Personal happiness is one of the most important things we buy every day, it's the money we spend that doesn't make us any happier that needs to be eliminated.

Flyingkea

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #71 on: September 03, 2017, 07:41:11 AM »
I must confess, I am amazed at how cheap some of these prices are sounding.

I work as a flight instructor in Australia, and students are charged $120 per hour of my time (more if they are in advancd training) and adding aircraft hire on top of that (our cheapest aircraft is $215 per hour, and it goes rapidly up from there). Yet, somehow we are one of the cheapest schools on the field. For an RPL it costs about 13k with us.

Anyway, back to original topic - learning to fly is something you need to do for the right reasons - you do need to be really in love with flying to do it. Some people can use it, but I would be writing off those costs.

Currency is a really really big thing. I took a break from flying, and while my stick flying skills didn't deteriorate too much, due my having a fair swag of hours, my operational knowledge was pretty poor, and I am still struggling to get it back. Additionally, I have flown with the old weekend warriors, and they were the people who scared me the most - the guys who would fly irregularly, barely enough to remain current, and had pretty poor handling skills, yet any attempt to help them improve was ignored or brushed off. (Don't be that kind of Pilot!)

And staying current costs money, so, I would only do it if I had the cashflow to spare. From other posts on here, I don't think you are that point just yet. But do go visit a local school, get to know them, you can often join with a non-flying membership, which will allow you to get to know the people, and possibly backseat a few flights.

GenXbiker

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #72 on: September 03, 2017, 10:19:25 AM »
In general, any expensive hobby (or pricey car or expensive travel) is best left until one has their debts paid off, is at least financially independent if not FIRED, and is able to free up free cash flow while making major life goals happen.

True.  There should be more face punches here.

sokoloff

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2017, 12:59:21 PM »
I must confess, I am amazed at how cheap some of these prices are sounding.
There's a reason aspiring pilots come from all over the world to train here. FL and AZ (great weather states) are positively thick with foreigners training, often ab initio through Commercial Multi-Engine Land.

Lnspilot

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2017, 02:36:19 PM »
Some of these replies are difficult to read. Are people forgetting about the value of time? I'll happily spend money if it leads me to happiness and personal growth. Stop obsessing about what MMM does all the time and think about your own path with FI.

Not all types of aviation are so expensive. I'm a paraglider pilot in Utah and these are my amortized expenses:

$4,700 - Brand new paraglider, harness, and reserve parachute (each easily good for four years before a need to upgrade)
$210 - US and Utah club annual dues
$200 - Annual glider inspection and reserve parachute repack
$150 - Annual SPOT membership (GPS tracking and rescue device)
~$100 - Retrieve and driver fees (uber/lyft, train, or driver wages after flying long distances)

This hobby cost me less than $2k a year, but what I get out of it is worth so much more than the price of admission.


It helps me stay fit by hiking up a mountain in order to fly. It's so much more satisfying when you've earned the flight that way. Hiking is free.
You'll meet people and start great relationships with new friends.

I've seen mountains and places from perspectives most people never see. We are so fortunate.

You'll gain an appreciation for weather and nature that wasn't so immediately noticeable before becoming a pilot. It's humbling.



OP, if your situation allows it, what are you waiting for?

Goldielocks

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #75 on: September 03, 2017, 03:45:10 PM »
Yeah, nope.  It's $12k!!    Twelve Thousand Dollars.  THOUSANDS of DOLLARS.   For an experience...you don't even get transportation to work or a place to live out of this...    This is something for when you FIRE.   In the meantime, just take ground school and  / or glider lessons...

$12k at 5% per year (net of inflation), for 25 years grows to $40k in today's dollars, for some, that is FIRE happening 1 year early.   Is your own pilot's license really worth an extra year of working to you?
I looked into it, and it wasn't worth it to me, but it certainly is to others.

I'm always amazed at how critical people can be of other people's value decisions while spending thousands on unnecessary conveniences like disposable diapers and air conditioning. Personal happiness is one of the most important things we buy every day, it's the money we spend that doesn't make us any happier that needs to be eliminated.

I hear what you are saying.   Just your example is not a great way to support your point. ... Diapers and A/C would benefit more than one person in the family....   can you think of another, better example for your point?

Goldielocks

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #76 on: September 03, 2017, 03:49:58 PM »
Some of these replies are difficult to read. Are people forgetting about the value of time? I'll happily spend money if it leads me to happiness and personal growth. Stop obsessing about what MMM does all the time and think about your own path with FI.

Not all types of aviation are so expensive. I'm a paraglider pilot in Utah and these are my amortized expenses:

$4,700 - Brand new paraglider, harness, and reserve parachute (each easily good for four years before a need to upgrade)
$210 - US and Utah club annual dues
$200 - Annual glider inspection and reserve parachute repack
$150 - Annual SPOT membership (GPS tracking and rescue device)
~$100 - Retrieve and driver fees (uber/lyft, train, or driver wages after flying long distances)

This hobby cost me less than $2k a year, but what I get out of it is worth so much more than the price of admission.


It helps me stay fit by hiking up a mountain in order to fly. It's so much more satisfying when you've earned the flight that way. Hiking is free.
You'll meet people and start great relationships with new friends.

I've seen mountains and places from perspectives most people never see. We are so fortunate.

You'll gain an appreciation for weather and nature that wasn't so immediately noticeable before becoming a pilot. It's humbling.



OP, if your situation allows it, what are you waiting for?

1) Twelve Thousand dollars is a lot more than two thousand.
2)  OP has only been working a few years, has significant student loans with his wife, and a small child, and very little home equity.  OP has done a terrific job thus far smashing through about half of their SL's,  but not yet in $12k "hobby spend" point of life, IMO.

VoteCthulu

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #77 on: September 04, 2017, 12:09:34 AM »
I hear what you are saying.   Just your example is not a great way to support your point. ... Diapers and A/C would benefit more than one person in the family....   can you think of another, better example for your point?
What's the diffierence whether one or two+ people are spending money for enjoyment? If it makes any difference at all, imagine the OP has a family that loves flying too.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 12:11:22 AM by VoteCthulu »

Goldielocks

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #78 on: September 04, 2017, 12:50:42 AM »
I hear what you are saying.   Just your example is not a great way to support your point. ... Diapers and A/C would benefit more than one person in the family....   can you think of another, better example for your point?
What's the diffierence whether one or two+ people are spending money for enjoyment? If it makes any difference at all, imagine the OP has a family that loves flying too.

Ha, ha.  Highly unlikely in my limited and personal experience growing up in a flying family.  Most of the pilots have darned hard time convincing spouses to fly with them after a couple of years, unless it is to a specific destination like a family cottage.  Family members fly to be "polite"..to share the other's passion, but not out of personal choice I have found.

I think it makes a tremendous difference if one person in a family is spending $12k and the other is at home with minimal funds and a baby, versus spending on things like A/C that indeed, all can enjoy together... (if even that made sense for the given financial scenario).

Can you think of another example, to support your point?

Syonyk

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #79 on: September 04, 2017, 06:15:55 PM »
Saw an thing on the news last night that the UK and some other countries have the plane equivalent of Uber now. Small private planes to transport one or two people between cities. It was called Wingy or Skyuber and each trip cost the passenger around $50 and they used it just like Uber. So if someone is just tootling around in their plane anyways maybe they can earn some $$s.

Not without a commercial license, you can't (at least in the USA).  The FAA is quite, quite clear on that - and rather vague on the details of what "hanging out your shingle" means, because they know pilots will skirt the edge of any hard and fast rule.

... and I took my kid up for her first flight today.  She loved it. :)  0.6 hours on the hobbs, $44 total cost.

Flyingkea

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #80 on: September 04, 2017, 06:21:16 PM »
Saw an thing on the news last night that the UK and some other countries have the plane equivalent of Uber now. Small private planes to transport one or two people between cities. Can't remember the name (started with a T) but each trip cost the passenger around $50 and they used it just like Uber. So if someone is just tootling around in their plane anyways maybe they can earn some $$s.
They can't earn $$$$ doing that without a commercial licence - the best they can hope for is to split the costs of the flight with the passenger.
Also, it is illegal in the US - there was a company in the US that did this, but got shut down, as the FAA and the US courts ruled it illegal. (You can do it privately, but cannot advertise online)

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/4xadpg/faa-grounds-uber-for-planes

sokoloff

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #81 on: September 04, 2017, 06:48:07 PM »
In the US, you'd need more than just a commercial certificate; you need the airplane to be on a part 135 (on-demand charter) operating certificate, which is a large amount of paperwork and bureaucracy.

Flyingkea

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #82 on: September 04, 2017, 07:02:14 PM »
The news report made it sound like you could do it on.a private pilots license in.the UK but guess you guys are saying that's not the case even in your own 2 seated private plane. I think this was the company they wete talking about:  https://en.wingly.io/index.php
Arguably you can but it's a very grey area, and the FAA has said you can't advertise online, because it then runs the risk of becoming RPT (regular public transport),  or charter which is basically flying that anyone with the money can go on.

So, if you had a mate who wanted to go flying, you could legally split the cost of the flight 50/50 with them, but you cannot advertise to just anyone.

Goldielocks

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #83 on: September 04, 2017, 07:40:32 PM »
Saw an thing on the news last night that the UK and some other countries have the plane equivalent of Uber now. Small private planes to transport one or two people between cities. It was called Wingy or Skyuber and each trip cost the passenger around $50 and they used it just like Uber. So if someone is just tootling around in their plane anyways maybe they can earn some $$s.

Not without a commercial license, you can't (at least in the USA).  The FAA is quite, quite clear on that - and rather vague on the details of what "hanging out your shingle" means, because they know pilots will skirt the edge of any hard and fast rule.

... and I took my kid up for her first flight today.  She loved it. :)  0.6 hours on the hobbs, $44 total cost.

Did you do the loop de loop?  I will never forget my first loop de loop....  and the "Shhhh don't tell you mother!".

Syonyk

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #84 on: September 04, 2017, 07:49:33 PM »
No, just took a 172 around to see our house and back. Then she helped put it away and clean it.

Visibility with the smoke is only 5-7 miles, and that might be optimistic.

cchrissyy

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Re: Becoming a Pilot for Fun
« Reply #85 on: September 04, 2017, 07:58:32 PM »
My XH did this in college. He sold his car ($10k?) because we could share mine, and put the entire proceeds toward flight lessons and plane rentals.  I know he enjoyed it but it was a short-lived hobby that now has no impact on his life anymore. And there were far smarter uses for the money, like, he could have paid off his student loans instead, or invested towards our future together instead of blowing it on individual fun. But maybe he still feels it was worth doing. He's XH for good reasons, so I don't know : )