The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: trailrated on July 17, 2017, 04:48:26 PM
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Just got married (wooooo!!!) and returned from the honeymoon not too long ago, finally getting back into the grind of "normal" life. Last night my wife and I were eating dinner in the back yard and she told me she had an uneasy feeling she couldn't quite shake and after connecting the dots on some things I have to admit... where there's smoke there may be fire. However... I can't figure out if we should just shrug our shoulders and let it go or look into things more.
We had a backyard laid back wedding with around 115 people. About half the people traveled and half were within driving distance to said wedding. Knowing that some traveling was to be done we let people know we were more than happy with their presence in lieu of presents. Even with that people kept asking what we wanted so we threw together an online registry for gifts.
The wedding was amazing, had so much fun surrounded by people we love. The next morning my Mother in law who stayed at the venue that night handed us a box with all of the cards that people had brought. I didn't think much of it at the time but there were 5 cards and 2 gift bags (one of which had no card attached). We kept a spreadsheet to detail the invite list, addresses, gifts etc. to use when we wrote our thank-you cards to everyone so they would be more personal.
My wife said that she had a gut feeling that there were more cards than that and that her mother may have taken them. Her mother has a history of doing some pretty dishonest things in the past along with ongoing issues with drug and alcohol abuse and money problems.
Here is what doesn't quite add up:
1) I thought the bag without the card was a bit odd, we had no idea who got that gift for us
2) Her mother stayed at the venue (another family members house)
3) I paid for the cab for her mother to go get make-up done with the bridal group because she could not afford the $15 cab ride.
4) Her mother lives across the country (her x husband bought her plane ticket to attend said wedding). She was supposed to be in town for another week and a half after the wedding but on a whim bought a last minute same day plane ticket that left 2 days after the wedding. If she didn't have $15 to cover a cab ride where did several hundred come from to cover this flight?
5) We found out after landing from the honeymoon that her mother was in the process of being evicted from her place with the landlord claiming rent not being paid and alleging that meth was being sold out of the house. This isn't quite proof of anything just paints the picture of what is not outside the realm of possibility to comprehend with her.
6) Several of the brides close friends who's weddings we traveled to and attended did not get anything on the registry or give cards (This is the one that seems way off to me. We would not be upset if we didn't receive anything from them but knowing this group for years it seems odd because the girls love writing each-other cards for everything, birthdays, christmas, thank you cards, feel better cards, congratulations on getting engaged cards. They single handedly keep the post office busy during the non-holiday months.)
Anyways after talking about these oddities I kind of shrugged my shoulders and said ehhhh I am in favor of just dropping it and moving on. If there was money in the missing cards (if there were missing cards) we don't need it because the mustachianism has made sure we are more than comfortable financially, and I highly doubt the cards would have been held onto after whatever was inside of them was taken if that did happen. She was more in favor of trying to seek some more info but I don't think there is a tasteful way of doing that. How do you go up to a friend and say... hey did you get my anything for my wedding? It just seems cringeworthy to me to do that. However in this case it's not coming from a feeling of "I deserve something from you how dare you not bestow gifts upon me! It is more of a, hey we really wanted to compile all the cards and everything within our wedding scrap book...was there a card to add to it?"
Even if it does come to light that some people gave cards that seemingly vanished... then what? We have no proof beyond a gut feeling who is to blame.
Anyways I figure some fellow mustachians might have some words of wisdom in this awkward post-wedding feeling of intuition. Regardless of what happens we had an unbelievably fun and memorable wedding and I am more than thankful I get to spend my life with my amazing wife.
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Is it possible for your wife to ask one of the bridal party members? Presumably if they were in her bridal party, they're close enough friends/family with your wife that she could explain the situation and ask them without an accusatory tone.
As to what you do with that information, I don't know that there's much to be done other than never letting your MIL near any cash/checkbooks/credit cards in the near future.
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Yikes, how incredibly awkward. I think you should definitely bring up that gifts may have gone missing in the sense that you should be writing thank-you notes for all gifts.
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Is it possible for your wife to ask one of the bridal party members? Presumably if they were in her bridal party, they're close enough friends/family with your wife that she could explain the situation and ask them without an accusatory tone.
As to what you do with that information, I don't know that there's much to be done other than never letting your MIL near any cash/checkbooks/credit cards in the near future.
I have come to appreciate the long distance relationship there. And good advice, I will be sure to keep you all updated on how this one turns out.
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People are going to think you guys are ungrateful for not writing thank you notes. Ugh! What a terrible situation. I would ask someone close if they brought a card. Sorry this happened to you both.
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Yeah, it makes no sense that you had 115 guests and only 5 cards. It sounds like your mother-in-law ripped you off. You'll have to try to keep her on the Planet Neptune in the future--or perhaps in the Andromeda galaxy somewhere--as much distance as possible. I think you need to talk to one or two of the closest friends who attended the wedding (who didn't apparently give you anything) and just preface the conversation by acknowledging that it is super-awkward...but...and just ask. Talk it over with them and see what turns up. It's a shame that you will forever be made to look like you have bad manners in not sending thank you notes...but maybe some of your friends can spread the word under the table that some of your gifts were apparently stolen. Sheesh...you can't make this stuff up.
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People are going to think you guys are ungrateful for not writing thank you notes. Ugh! What a terrible situation. I would ask someone close if they brought a card. Sorry this happened to you both.
At the very least we will send a thank-you note for everyone that came. I am just hoping it doesn't rub someone the wrong way if we mention having a blast with them but leave out gift x we didn't know about. Hopefully it's just overthinking the whole thing but my wife has been right about gut feelings every time she has brought them up with me.
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People are going to think you guys are ungrateful for not writing thank you notes. Ugh! What a terrible situation. I would ask someone close if they brought a card. Sorry this happened to you both.
At the very least we will send a thank-you note for everyone that came. I am just hoping it doesn't rub someone the wrong way if we mention having a blast with them but leave out gift x we didn't know about. Hopefully it's just overthinking the whole thing but my wife has been right about gut feelings every time she has brought them up with me.
No.
If someone gave you a gift of money, prepaid cards, or a physical thing, then you must acknowledge it in any thank-you note. A blanket "Thanks for everything" won't cut the mustard. You need to get to the bottom of this.
I appreciate the need to "right the wrong" here but what if we find out things have gone missing. We don't know from who unless we ask every person in attendance. And then what... Compile a list of things we could have had? Apologize to the people that attempted to make a kind gesture and tell them... We assume it was her mom... but have no proof and she is on the other side of the country. I get where you are coming from here but either way it seems like a lose-lose.
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It seems very likely that your wife is correct about what happened. Whether she is correct or not, keep a very, very safe distance from her mother.
Your plan to write thank you cards to all who attended is an excellent one.
If you do uncover from some of your close friends that they gave a card you never received, then you can be pretty sure that you will indeed accidentally offend someone by not thanking them for their generosity. In your shoes, I guess I would address it at that point by contacting each person (in person, phone, whatever) to thank them again for coming to the wedding. Tell them how grateful you both are that they shared your special day with them. You could tell them how you enjoyed your honeymoon, how much fun you had dancing with them at the wedding (or whatever), and then mention that a crazy thing happened: it seems a few people gave cards that definitely went missing . . . I would then probably downplay it with "they say something always "goes wrong" on wedding day, so I guess that is what went wrong on ours? Everything else was perfect! I'm so glad you were there!")
That gives the other person an opening to say "I was wondering why you never cashed my check!" or "Oh no! That's terrible! Please tell me my card wasn't stolen! I put something in there for you!" Then you can say "Oh dear! I guess it was! I'm so sorry that happened, and I wish we had had a better system for keeping an eye on the gift table. Live and learn, I guess, but who knew someone could do something like that? It's a mystery, but the main thing is that we are very happy you were able to join us that day. Thanks again!"
You pretty much know who did it, but I wouldn't blame anyone publicly . . . I'd just call it "The Mystery of the Missing Cards." If someone presses you about it, asks you who you think took them, you can just keep repeating "We don't know. I guess it's just the Mystery of the Missing Cards." That's what we did when our pet toad disappeared. My son was fairly sure one particular friend stole it, and he could be right based upon all the other things that "friend" did, but I knew we couldn't be sure because a couple of other people had been through his room (like other friends and an apartment maintenance guy, although it seemed very odd he would have taken an amphibian). I also knew it was possible the toad had suddenly learned to climb the glass wall and somehow escaped out of the blue despite the lid. I told him we'd never know, and that he shouldn't accuse his "friend", and that he should stop trying to solve it in his head. We agreed to just call it "The Mystery of the Toad." Once we named it that way, he stopped being so upset, felt better, and could just let it go. The toad never appeared (dead or alive.) It remains a mystery to this day.
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Great advice from Zamboni.
I agree there is no need to look for more info or confront new MIL. Just clean up the damage she left behind. Don't waste any emotional effort on behavior like this. Just accept it and move on.
I have experience with addict family members. This is what they do. They selfishly destroy things and leave others to clean it up. When you finally accomplish keeping her a hella-long way from you in every respect she will sense the distance, resent it and viciously attack you (physically and mentally in my experience). She'll probably try to ruin your marriage as well.
I know it sounds bleak, but that is just how that kind of thing goes down. Mentally prepare yourself and make sure your wife knows this is a true journey and it will certainly hit "Rock bottom" at some point. Don't let yourself be sucked in. They need you to engage in their negativity. When you refuse, they go find someone else to be toxic with. By the way, that is the reason you DO NOT ever say anything to her about this. It never gets better FOR YOU. Do not engage.
I am on the other side of mentally and emotionally abusive relatives and in-laws that did try to destroy my marriage and guess what? What did not kill us made us stronger. I'm very happy :)
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Second that you don't need to "finger" anyone as the culprit. Honestly, even a mass email could be sent out saying "we've realized some gifts and cards went missing during the course of the festivities. We are sending out thank yous to all who came,, and we appreciate that you made the effort to attend and celebrate our wedding"
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We had a wonderful time at our wedding and hope you did to, I appreciated seeing you there.
I am writing to let you in on something that I don't want you to take any action on or try to correct. This seems to have happened and we want to put behind us. If you didn't get a thank you card from us after the wedding here is why.
I afraid some of our wedding gifts and/or cards were stolen. …
Argh
Sorry I give up, I don't know how to present this.
Here's what I would want the recipients to know:
Glad you attended
Sorry if we didn't send you a personalized thank you card. (we don't have the card to respond to)
Many of the gifts were was most likely stolen, but we will handle the theft/thief in our own way.
We certainly don't want any one to buy another gift!
We need to handle this person our own way.
Thank you for your attendance
and then try to add some/lots of positive information, the honeymoon. And more to lighten up the negative.
Otherwise, you are the person that didn't send out thank you notes.
As the giver of a gift, that would not bother me at all, but I guess that is a faux pas
regarding wedding gifts. Maybe because I would forget about it before any thank you card would arrive.
It's a tough situation, no right or wrong if you feel you must protect the thief.
As I see Lizzzi addressed;
You might have two or three people you could confide in about the theft
and ask if they did give a gift, you don't have it and are trying to verify the theft.
Maybe better? if you had a small party with 5 or 10 people that you know you don't have a card or gift from and tell what you think happened (without personal details). Pass out a folded card to each, with a 3 lines,
and a box next to each line.
Please check the box that applies.
What did you bring to my wedding?
I brought you all my love
I brought you a gift
I brought you a card with a gift inside.
From that you will find 0 to 10 gifts missing.
Bottom line, I think you know what happened but don't want to admit it.
Sorry this happened to you, you just need to get this done and forget it.
Have a great Mustachian Marriage, Congratulations.
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I agree with putting in the cards a blanket statement that it appears some cards/gifts unfortunately went missing as y'all were leaving the venue and apologize to anyone for gifts or cards that you have not specifically acknowledged.
But I also think you should considering asking anyone that left you a card or gift to contact you.
At least that way, you'll know for sure one way or another if money/gifts were stolen. If you can find out for sure, then you could confront her, and hopefully this would prevent her from ever doing this to you again.
A further caution: In the future, do not allow this relative (or really any relative that has this kind of history) alone in your house. Or around any of your belongings unsupervised. There is a tradition of assigning a friend or family member to wrangle the "special" folks that have light fingers, drink too much, or cause fights but otherwise are lovely, so do this going forward if you still want to invite her anywhere.
Honestly tho, I'd never allow that person in my house or around my family ever again, but your wife might waffle about it depending on how well she's been trained to put up with this type of behavior.
This is even more vitally important to do if you ever have children. No access without you there as well, so she can't rifle through files, pick up a bill or get your new baby's social security number. I've had a coworker that this happened to, and it was horrible. (His MIL came to "help" with the new baby and stole the baby's SS# and it came out that the MIL had also stolen her own daughter's when she was a minor too, so it shouldn't have been a surprise)
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+1 to everything that Frankies Girl just said.
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Wow. I'm so sorry this happened to you.
115 guests and 5 cards? No. That absolutely cannot be right. I trust your wife's intuition on this. Almost nobody would attend a wedding without bringing a card (with cash or check...far too often cash) or a gift.
You've gathered some great thoughts/ideas in this thread. Not sure I have anything to add.
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Lots of great advice above, and you absolutely need to send out some sort of thank you with a brief, but honest explanation.
Undoubtedly there will be checks in some of those cards, now whether your MIL tries to cash them is another matter, but if I gave someone a check as a gift and it was never deposited, I'd be wondering what the deal is.
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Also I don't suppose wife wants to take the matter up with the police.....I mean that's theft on a large/blatant/just plain icky scale. What if MILs next victim isn't her own daughter? (And I mean if you're willing to do that to your own kid then what else are you willing to do?).
And dear heavens, if you intend for this woman to stay in your life...figure out now with your wife what you're going to make the boundaries when you have children. Don't wait until kids are on the way and things are emotional to decide.
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OP here, wow a lot to think about and consider. I really appreciate all of the responses, I have a lot of great advice to work with. Also thank you to those who have dealt with similar types of people in their family. The ssn# thing is frightening to think about. I will be sure to keep you all updated with what we find out and how we end up going about this. Thank you again.
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Shitty situation. Bummer that something like this had to happen on such a great occasion. I would write thank you's to all the guests and add an insert explaining the situation. After that try to move on and focus on the good parts of your marriage.
One reason you should let people know is if they wrote checks. That way they can contact their bank, attempt to cancel it, and possibly get their money back.
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Thats just super messed up :\. Sorry that happened, yikes.
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Posting to see how this turns out.
115 guests should result in much more than 5 cards, even if you specifically requested no gifts. We asked for no gifts, but still received cards w/ money from ~50% of the guests.
Sorry you've got something stressful to deal with. I hope you can put it behind you eventually.
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Hmmm.. Those that know me know I have a zero tolerance policy to abusive family members.. so..
1) Send a blanket email saying it appears stuff was "misplaced"
2) To contact you if a check was enclosed, check to see if it was cashed, cancel check if possible.
3) File a police report on the cashed checks that you find out about.
Bottom line is this is possibly fraud and the perp needs to be held accountible.
I turned my own MIL in for Sales tax fraud when she tried to registered her car at my house in Oregon to avoid Colorado sales tax. I.e using MY assets to commit fraud and I to be honest I had zero remorse for doing so.
My personal view is if you don't apply the big stick when required they will think nothing of doing this sort of thing again.
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1) Send a blanket email saying it appears stuff was "misplaced"
2) To contact you if a check was enclosed, check to see if it was cashed, cancel check if possible.
3) File a police report on the cashed checks that you find out about.
At least do 1 and 2. I might come out and say that a bag (or whatever) of cards has gone missing and ask anyone who gave a card or gift to contact you. Then you can work out with the individual whether they need to cancel the check. If they gave cash, at least you know how much they gave and can write a thank you note. Then you can decide whether to file a police report, which I think you should do if someone is fraudulently cashing checks in your name.
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Lots of great advice above, and you absolutely need to send out some sort of thank you with a brief, but honest explanation.
Undoubtedly there will be checks in some of those cards, now whether your MIL tries to cash them is another matter, but if I gave someone a check as a gift and it was never deposited, I'd be wondering what the deal is.
Yeah, me too. Also is there much risk of MIL having all the bank information and addresses on the checks? If I gave someone a check and it was stolen I'd want to be aware of it.
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I'm not sure I'd want to tread as lightly as saying some things have "gone missing." That makes you look like an airhead who isn't even grateful enough for gifts/cards to keep track of them. I would word it in a way that makes it clear that this was an intentional thing done by someone else, though your suspicion as to who that is doesn't need to be mentioned.
I'm also in favor of getting the police involved.
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Thats why I said "misplaced"..:)
And I don't think it makes you look like an airhead. Almost everybody I know delegates looking after the gifts to a family member while the happy couple jet off on their honeymoon.
So coming back from the honeymoon and only then having a "WTF?" moment is perfectly reasonable.
But basically checks may have gone missing, people might be at risk for identity theft so you owe it to your friends to alert them to the possibility and to work with them to resolve any possible problems.
That means reporting any crime you know about to the appropriate authorities.. Regardless of family relations.
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I am really sorry you were probably robbed by a family member. A guest list of 115 and only a handful of gifts just does not compute at all. I definitely would approach some people close to you who you are almost certain would have left you a gift. If I was a guest, I would absolutely want to know that my gift was stolen (so I could give them a new gift, but also in case some thief now has my checking account number or something). You might have to buck up and tell them that you *think* they were stolen and are desperately trying to locate them (you do not have to say who you suspect though). Apologize profusely. Yes, you were robbed but in a way, you also allowed your guests to be robbed as well. They need to be protected too.
Once you get a confirmation or two under your belt that yes, gifts are missing, I would take a stepwise approach. First, call the owner of the home and tell them gifts are missing. Ask if they saw anything or found any. If they say no, move on to confront MIL. I wouldn’t accuse, but I would definitely let her know you are on to her (“Hey I know you were managing the gifts for us – did you happen to see if any got misplaced? We have quite a few guests who gave us gifts but they weren’t in the bag of cards you gave us”). Make inquiries with the rest of the bridal party or anyone who might have seen anything or had more hands on involvement helping you with wedding organization that day. Do this quickly, over the next couple of days. If you still haven't located more gifts, then you need to call everyone on your list who is not accounted for and tell them. It's the right thing to do, even if painfully embarrassing. Do not let this languish or procrastinate because you dread doing it...that will only make it 10x worse when people do realize you and they were robbed and you didn't alert them immediately.
But this scenario points to another uncomfortable situation – why would you and your wife let someone like this near the gifts in the first place? Are you in denial about who you are dealing with?
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Not to quibble, I think saying that they are misplaced suggests that they have innocently been lost and will turn up somewhere, and does suggest a carelessness that I wouldn't want to convey in this situation. Gone missing suggests that they may have been stolen, at least it does to me, but maybe stronger wording needs to be used.
I would personally send an email to all the guests (from whom you did not receive anything), not call each guest individually. That would really put someone on the spot if they did not bring a gift.
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Did you guys have a wedding shower? When I give a gift at the shower I generally don't give another at the wedding, although I would leave a card. Maybe it's a millennial thing, but my friends and I do way less gift giving than I think previous generations did. I had a small wedding of maybe 40 people and didn't get a single gift the day of, but got many at the shower.
I would tell MIL that you think you are missing a bunch of gifts. Don't point a finger at her, but let her know that you know it happened and that youre disappointed. I would hate for her to think she got away with it without anyone noticing. It might scare her straight if she actually did it.
I'm so sorry this happened.
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"Misplaced" is the wrong terminology. Just say you suspect some gifts were stolen, and then take it from there with whatever you choose to do.
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"Misplaced" is the wrong terminology. Just say you suspect some gifts were stolen, and then take it from there with whatever you choose to do.
I agree.. The important part is to make sure this is dealt with appropriately, which means involving the police if you suspect a crime has been committed.
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Yikes! Posting to follow.
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"Misplaced" is the wrong terminology. Just say you suspect some gifts were stolen, and then take it from there with whatever you choose to do.
I agree.. The important part is to make sure this is dealt with appropriately, which means involving the police if you suspect a crime has been committed.
+ 1
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Posting to follow. Great advice above.
I firmly agree that you shouldn't just let this go, but start take appropriate (and cautious) steps to dig into what happened. For the sake of your guests, and your MIL future victims.
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They aren't misplaced (which implies you had them in your hand to place them somewhere). . . you never saw them so somehow they have vanished in unsavory circumstances.
I would not do anything blanket for all guests until I confirmed with my closest friends that some things were indeed stolen. Once confirmed, I would probably preface whatever I said or wrote about the gifts by noting something like "Some of our friends and family have asked why we requested "no wedding gifts. (insert reason here: we already have much to be grateful for in our lives blah blah blah.) We understand why some of our friends and family were compelled to bring gifts anyway, and unfortunately we have confirmed that some of those generously bestowed cards were stolen by a unknown dirty rotten scoundrel . . . " Don't speculate, when pressed, about the identity of the scoundrel. Just name it a mystery and offer to file a police report if individuals reply that they are concerned about their gift being stolen (or you can say a police report has already been filed, and now you'd really just like to move on with your happy marriage fully reconciled with the fact that the mystery will probably never be solved.)
The whole situation is a drag . . . that they either were stolen or that you have such a disreputable MIL that you have to worry that she might have stolen something. For contrast, if my mom or ex-MIL turned up with 5 cards in a basket in a similar situation, I would know without a doubt that there is no way there were more when she got said basket. Neither of them would steal from us, ever. Just as I will never ever steal from my own children.
As others have noted, though, there are people who will. I also know of a specific situation where a couple of neighbors used both of their young children's SS numbers to open all kinds of accounts they never intended to pay. We found out when they abandoned their foreclosed home in the dead of night, leaving all kinds of garbage in both the yard and on the porch. The bank/city was taking forever to clean it up, and it truly was an eyesore (especially the front yard), so we took a box of trashbags over and picked trash out of the yard, finding all sorts of bills of this type. Crazy.
Just chalk it up as a lesson learned, and be sure you learn from it. I'm glad MIL lives far away from you . . . . keep it that way!
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I agree with the consensus here that you should confirm things were stolen before you send out a response to everyone.
Hopefully there are folks in the bridal party that you are close enough to that you can ask if they gave a gift, or if they know of other friends that did. I think if you explain the situation - you suspect gifts were stolen, but don't mention by whom - close friends will give you a pass on asking about whether they gave gifts.
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But this scenario points to another uncomfortable situation – why would you and your wife let someone like this near the gifts in the first place? Are you in denial about who you are dealing with?
Good point, to be honest we were both just so busy caught up in the moment and talking to everyone and drinking and dancing having a great time we never really comprehended something like that could happen. Her and her mom have a strained relationship as is and I found myself running some damage control in the lead up to the wedding along with the rehearsal dinner the night before. She kept going to up to the caterers or dj etc. and telling them she was the mother of the bride and in charge which I found to be odd cause we had everything mapped out and she was telling them to do different things. I pulled each aside and told them what we wanted and that I was the person paying them so to go by my instructions. When it came to the gift/card table it was kind of off to the side, we didn't want it to be a prominent display piece to make people feel awkward if they didn't bring anything as we told them they didn't need to. Hindsight is 20/20 but yeah that was definitely a planning oversight. One thing I am very thankful for is knowing in advance about two larger financial gifts. These people we talked to prior to the wedding and said it would be best to just wait till after the honeymoon because we were leaving the country the night after the wedding anyways and didn't want to have to travel and risk a mishap while we were gone. Sorry for the long semi-rambling response. :)
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Hah.. I had to warn my MIL that should would be un-invited if she pulled one more of her outrageous stunts prior to OUR wedding.
Take your pick.. She went to the Brides heairdresser and demanded how she wanted the bride's hair done. Went to our caterers and made changes. Went to the florist etc etc.
Only when my now Wife sat down in front of the hairdresser did we find out what she had been doing!
As she was leaving I later learned that she told my Mum and Dad that their Son's house was not suitable for HER Daughter and they should persuade me to move.
My Dad came unglued at this point and let her have it both barrels!.. I would loved to have been a fly on the wall..:)
I have had to apply the velvet covered baseball bat numerous times to dw's family post wedding as well.. "Fuck with me and this dog bites!"
Oh MIL then without our knowledge registered her new car at our house in Oregon to avoid Colorado Sales tax!.. My response.. I turned them into the Oregon DMV for an illegal registration..
They are much better behaved now..:)
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Congratulations!
You are getting lots of good advice here. The importance of Thank You notes as well. None of my cohort has written me any and I would really like to know if the gift/money arrives - for reasons like this.
My brother bought a college friend a lovely wedding present, but never got a note. Assumed friend was a little lazy and let it go. About 10 years later they were chatting online and the lack of a gift got brought up. My brother said he sent XYZ gift but never got a note. Friend recognized the gift, it was in his brother in laws house. They used his addresses to receive gifts while all the moving and traveling happened. The BIL stole it. Friend finally got it 10 years later, when he went over and took it back.
I always write Thank You Notes, 'cause my mother told me too :).
LV
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You've gotten great advice, but I wanted to add one thing I didn't see mentioned. Another easy way to find out if people bought you gifts is to look at your registry to see which/how many items have been purchased. Many stores will now ask guests buying gifts for their address to allow the bride and groom to easily write thank-you notes. You could try contacting the registry for the that list. At the very least, you'll be able to confirm that gifts were purchased and you could write more specific thank-you notes to those people.
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Did you talk to MIL and specifically ask her if there were any other gifts? Not accusing, but asking? It sounds like she is a piece of work, but is there any possible chance she may have left a bag of cards on the backseat of the car or in the trunk and not realized what they were?
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Ugh, I've always hated unattended gift tables at weddings for exactly this reason. We usually give a check in a card and I know how easy those are for some unscrupulous person to cash.
You've gotten some great advice here, but the main takeaway for me has been that for future weddings, I'll be sending our check in the mail directly to the bride and groom's home.
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That's awful. For what it's worth, I'd check with someone close to you to ask, in context, if anything happened.
Your MIL will be fully aware of what she has done. Expect a full scale attack of some kind in the near future (to retroactively justify the actions to herself). Yes, I have some experience with people like that.
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Is it possible that someone may have snapped a picture of the gift table? That way you could get a visual of what was there which could help before sending out a message.
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How about just be upfront in the thank you notes about how your mother in law has a drug addiction and very likely stole gifts that were intended for you.
I think it's a teachable moment about the peril of addiction.
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OP, I understand you have a lot on your plate with this situation. I agree with almost all of the advice given (contact close friends, talk to your MIL, etc.). Be honest in your conversations with everyone. Here is what I would do:
Contact all of the guests about gifts going missing, specifically cards that might have personal checks in them. Don't ask the guests if they gave you a gift, thats not your main concern anyways. Tell them you are concerned about ID Fraud and wanted them to know right away. Have them keep a look out for any checks cashed or ID fraud and to let you know right away.
This will give your guests the reason why you didn't send a thank you note right away and allow you to explain it easily. Hopefully, during your PHONE CONVERSATION (not something done over email) you can learn if the guest did get you something or not. Finally, if it is your MIL, turn the information over to the police and let them handle it.
Good luck!
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OP UPDATE:
Confirmed one card that went missing. This was from a phone call DW had with her mother's roomie who called to talk about the wedding and mentioned not being able to attend and that she was glad she could at least do something... which was a card with a $50 Target gift card that was sent with her mother that we never received. We are going to begin contacting other attendees today.
Side update... MIL just asked to come visit next month.
more to follow.
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Oh this woman, I'll bet she did .... so she can take things while you're at work
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posting to follow this ...
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But that actually might be an easy way to breach the conversation with her. "Oh we talked to so-and-so who said she had sent along the gift card with you. We didn't see it with the gifts so wanted to know if it was just something you forgot to take out while we were having so much fun or if it's something we need to be looking into further". I can't imagine it's worth getting your hopes up...but at least an option for her to come clean.
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OP UPDATE:
Confirmed one card that went missing. This was from a phone call DW had with her mother's roomie who called to talk about the wedding and mentioned not being able to attend and that she was glad she could at least do something... which was a card with a $50 Target gift card that was sent with her mother that we never received. We are going to begin contacting other attendees today.
Side update... MIL just asked to come visit next month.
more to follow.
Oh, this could be quite interesting keep good notes!
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Posting to follow. I agree with notifying the guests, awkward as it is. You've been given a lot of excellent advice here.
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I'm posting just to follow.
Though I'll add that my wife had a lifetime of dealing with this kind of crap, her mother wasn't invited to our wedding (which wasn't a decision that was taken lightly) so I fully appreciate the situation you find yourself in.
Reassure your wife that she is in no way responsible for her mothers behavior. It may be difficult for her, particularly if she has spent a lifetime apologising for her.
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PTF. I will say, if I gave a gift at a wedding and got a generic thank you note that didn't mention it, I would be fine with that politeness-wise. The bride and groom have loads of notes to write, I'm not going to demand that mine is super-personal. So if you did want to send out "Thank you for coming" notes now and investigate later so as not to bother guests who don't need it and to be prompt about thank yous, I think that's fine.
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Posting to follow, and the best of luck to you in this horrible situation!
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PTF. Good luck.
My mother was never a thief, but was / is a terrible enough mother that I stopped all contact seven years ago, including not inviting her to my wedding last year. So your wife has my very heartfelt sympathy.
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Ask her to bring the cards back when she comes to visit....
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^lol! Wait, okay it's really not a funny situation . . . you have my sympathy.
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Ask her to bring the cards back when she comes to visit....
Indeed. That lets her know that you're on to her. Oh, and don't let her loose in your home unsupervised unless you want your socks stolen too.
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My 2cents. This is for your wife to handle for the most part.
You should get additional confirmation that other cards or gifts are missing, so contact a small group of maybe 10 or 15 people you are close to and chat, let them know there might have been a theft, (do not mention anything about who) and chat about it and see where things stand. Make sure that it's a positive conversation overall about life and things, but also a check in on what happened re the cards.
Your mother in law should not visit. If you determine that she took your cards, you can never ever trust her again.
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Visit?! I would someone who did this to me 100% out of my life forever. Never mind the genes, etc.
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Visit?! I would erase someone who did this to me 100% out of my life forever. Never mind the genes, etc.
FTFY
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Why not inform everyone that some gifts were stolen, so they need to realize that if they gave a gift without getting thanked, their gift was one of the stolen ones?
Example:
Having forgiven the people who disobeyed our suggestion and brought gifts, we feel duty bound to report that some of the gifts appear to been stolen. For reasons of identity theft as well as human caring, anyone who left a gift and isn't specifically getting thanked needs to be aware that the gift was stolen. Any information on what was given and not thanked is helpful in tracking the crime, but as a personal matter, please limit followup on this to information - no double gifts allowed, unless patience counts as a gift. In any case, we are so glad for the many friends and loved ones who attended! Your company has given our marriage a great start.
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Sorry to throw this is but I must say MIL lacks all common sense or must be extremely desperate and in need of her fix. She should have taken 1-2 items but instead got greedy and I would be very careful around this woman. Someone who will rob their daughter blind on their wedding day with no fear of getting caught seems desperate enough to be dangerous.
Out of 115 people /2 as usually 1 gift per couple you would expect 57 gift. A few couples would forget or not bring anything day of perhaps to be sent later. So by my estimation you would expect 50-55 gifts. You got 7....
Without taking too much time to estimate the value (1 generous uncle or two can really throw things off) it's likely she took at least $5k from you but possibly way more. It's not unheard of that a well off relative will often leave $500- several thousand.
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Well, what a crappy situation to be in on what is supposed to be one of the happiest days of your lives.
I think in that situation I would first contact my close friends and family by phone call and be honest about the situation of a suspected theft, without saying that you suspect anybody, and ask if they left a card or gift/cheque etc. Ask your wife to do the same with her friends & other family. Document what they tell you. Having told them this you can send a more generic thank you card and they will understand if it doesn't specifically mention their gift. For those you know less well a generic "thank you" card is probably fine anyway.
If you do clearly establish that a number of cards/gifts are missing, which it seems you almost certainly will, you then have a decision point.
Either it is a criminal theft, so you will report it to the police. Your wife might have the option of calling her mother in tears etc. saying what has happened etc. before contacting the police, in case her mother wants to own up at that point to avoid police involvement. Once the police are involved you then have to be prepared to press charges against the MIL. The police would likely be able to establish who did it e.g. by tracing the cheques and/or tracing the serial numbers of gift cards, if they are willing to investigate it that far (but they may see it as a family dispute not worth their time).
That your mother in law one day had no money and after the wedding had enough for a plane ticket has no reasonable explanation short of a lottery ticket win.
Or, as you say, you decide to drop the matter as you don't need the money and the hassle and implications on family relationships are too severe.
I think I would discuss with your wife but make it clear it is ultimately her decision as it's her mother, and you will support her decision either way. Going down the route of the police investigation is effectively saying you will both terminate the relationship with the MIL.
A person with an ongoing addiction is unfortunately likely to be a very difficult and stessful person to deal with, I would be inclined to minimize contact, meet them only in neutral places and not have them in my home, unless the person is willing to seek professional help and turn their life around.
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Agreeing with everyone here about the need -- in the course of thanking them -- to inform guests that you had gifts and cards stolen, and quantify as much as possible what went missing. I think people will be very helpful if they understand the situation.
Because it may be that the best thing, long-term, is to press charges. It also may be that it isn't worth the emotional cost to you and your wife, but to let this go completely is enabling MIL's behaviour and educating her that she can rob you without consequence. Pressing charges would be hardest on your wife, and i think it's worth talking to an addictions counsellor - one who has worked with people who have fully destroyed their lives, not just 'functional' addicts - for some perspective on the value of possible courses of action.
People don't seek help until they hit bottom. What you do here could help MIL hit bottom... or keep her floating along a good while longer.
The other thing is, if MIL has a bunch of names and addresses, she now has the ability to scam them 'on your behalf'. She can call them and say how she is the bride's mom, how nice it was to meet you. She has such an awkward request... her daughter and her new husband are in financial trouble. They would never admit it, her husband is too proud. But they are in real difficulty and (insert great story here) she wonders if they can help. A little. Just send her the money and she'll forward it on, they never need to know it's from you.
So as much as you might not want to say anything about who did the stealing, I think you may need to, to protect your relationships.
I remember reading a story about a girl whose mother solicited funds on her behalf from extended family and friends for years 'for college'. She never saw any of the money, and only found out about it when her (grandfather?) called her out for never saying thank-you for the thousands all her relatives had given her.
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Agreeing with everyone here about the need -- in the course of thanking them -- to inform guests that you had gifts and cards stolen, and quantify as much as possible what went missing. I think people will be very helpful if they understand the situation.
Because it may be that the best thing, long-term, is to press charges. It also may be that it isn't worth the emotional cost to you and your wife, but to let this go completely is enabling MIL's behaviour and educating her that she can rob you without consequence. Pressing charges would be hardest on your wife, and i think it's worth talking to an addictions counsellor - one who has worked with people who have fully destroyed their lives, not just 'functional' addicts - for some perspective on the value of possible courses of action.
People don't seek help until they hit bottom. What you do here could help MIL hit bottom... or keep her floating along a good while longer.
The other thing is, if MIL has a bunch of names and addresses, she now has the ability to scam them 'on your behalf'. She can call them and say how she is the bride's mom, how nice it was to meet you. She has such an awkward request... her daughter and her new husband are in financial trouble. They would never admit it, her husband is too proud. But they are in real difficulty and (insert great story here) she wonders if they can help. A little. Just send her the money and she'll forward it on, they never need to know it's from you.
So as much as you might not want to say anything about who did the stealing, I think you may need to, to protect your relationships.
I remember reading a story about a girl whose mother solicited funds on her behalf from extended family and friends for years 'for college'. She never saw any of the money, and only found out about it when her (grandfather?) called her out for never saying thank-you for the thousands all her relatives had given her.
+1. For this reason alone, I believe you have an obligation to let guests know that some gifts appear to have been stolen, and to caution them about identity theft or anyone contacting them on your behalf.
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Oh boy... P2F.
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I think you'll need to confront MIL so that you have a legitimate reason for why she CAN'T visit!
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If it walks like a duck...
To be completely fair though - anyone could have taken the cards between the ceremony and when your MIL gave them to you. Was the box secure inside all night?
I attended a wedding a few weeks ago and the newlyweds were missing a ton of cards - their guess was someone who worked at the venue did it but they haven't found any concrete answers yet either.
Good luck to you - terrible situation regardless
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OP UPDATE:
Confirmed one card that went missing. This was from a phone call DW had with her mother's roomie who called to talk about the wedding and mentioned not being able to attend and that she was glad she could at least do something... which was a card with a $50 Target gift card that was sent with her mother that we never received. We are going to begin contacting other attendees today.
Side update... MIL just asked to come visit next month.
more to follow.
On the very unlikely chance this person saved their receipt, gift cards can be canceled and reissued. Some store can even look up reciepts using your credit cards. You need to communicate there was a problem to your guests. Most will want you to get the gift, not a thief.
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A police report should absolutely be filed... I'd think the police could track down the thief, by tracking any attempts at cashing the cheques, or even from gift card usage if any of your guests are able to provide the police with the gift card receipts.
If you don't want to get the police involved... Keep an eye on Craigslist, Kijiji(Canada), Facebook buy and sells, etc in your MIL's hometown to see if you can catch her in the act of selling any of the gift cards or presents from your registry. If you can get any gift card receipts, you might be able to log in to view the gift card online... Rather than cancel it you could track it to see where it was used? If it's used in your MIL's hometown, you have a relatively definitive answer to the whodunit question.
We had a similar sized wedding... There were only 3 couples who didn't give us anything, so the 5 cards you received is definitely WAY low.
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Very curious to follow this one as well. I don't have anything to add to all of the good advice here so far. I do find myself wondering how someone like Miss Manners would advise you to handle the situation. Any idea if there are advice columnists out on the internets who have tackled this issue? This can't be the first time it has happened to someone.
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Posting to follow. I'm so sorry you're in this situation--but it could end up being a blessing in disguise if you do learn that she did engage in this behavior, because then you know you have to be wary of recurrence and take steps to forestall it.
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It might be worth contacting the venue too (not sure if "backyard type wedding" and "venue" from your OP suggest it was your backyard or a paid venue).
They may be able to confirm what happened at the venue and narrow things down, particularly if they have any security footage.
Regarding contacting people, you can break the awkwardness even by sending a card that straight up acknowledges it:
Thank you for coming to our wedding. We really appreciate your spending time to come celebrate our special day with us.
We are in a rather embarrassing situation right now though and would love your help - a bunch of cards seem to have gone missing and we are trying to track them down to understand what has happened. It's really awkward to ask but because of this, if you did give us a card can you please let us know, so we can keep investigating.
Thank you again for choosing to spend your time with us!
Also, this makes me question my policy of cash gifts at weddings. I've preferred cash over checks in recent years, but this makes me want to give a check at future weddings.
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OP UPDATE:
Confirmed one card that went missing. This was from a phone call DW had with her mother's roomie who called to talk about the wedding and mentioned not being able to attend and that she was glad she could at least do something... which was a card with a $50 Target gift card that was sent with her mother that we never received. We are going to begin contacting other attendees today.
Side update... MIL just asked to come visit next month.
more to follow.
Ow, what an awful situation, i feel for you and your wife.
I have come to appreciate the long distance relationship there.
This tickled the darker sides of my humor.
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Out of 115 people /2 as usually 1 gift per couple you would expect 57 gift. A few couples would forget or not bring anything day of perhaps to be sent later. So by my estimation you would expect 50-55 gifts. You got 7....
I think your math is off...? At my wedding, we had 70 people attend, but there were quite a few families, so 1 card per 3 people was more like it. If I had said "no presents", maybe cut that in half, so that it would be 1 card per 6 people.. Although I would say that I would definitely get a card to the couple either before the wedding or at it, even if I was not giving a gift. As another posted, getting a nice card at a shower / engagement could be all.
115/6 = 19 ish cards, some with money or gift, some without.
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Out of 115 people /2 as usually 1 gift per couple you would expect 57 gift. A few couples would forget or not bring anything day of perhaps to be sent later. So by my estimation you would expect 50-55 gifts. You got 7....
I think your math is off...? At my wedding, we had 70 people attend, but there were quite a few families, so 1 card per 3 people was more like it. If I had said "no presents", maybe cut that in half, so that it would be 1 card per 6 people.. Although I would say that I would definitely get a card to the couple either before the wedding or at it, even if I was not giving a gift. As another posted, getting a nice card at a shower / engagement could be all.
115/6 = 19 ish cards, some with money or gift, some without.
I missed the part about "no gift". All bets are off then - without asking everyone, who knows what was actually received. You would think most people would bring a card though like you said.
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Anyone else anxiously awaiting an update from the OP?
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Anyone else anxiously awaiting an update from the OP?
~Raises hand~
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Anyone else anxiously awaiting an update from the OP?
~Raises hand~
me too. I want to know how this ends.. I'm guessing not well
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Anyone else anxiously awaiting an update from the OP?
~Raises hand~
me too. I want to know how this ends.. I'm guessing not well
Me three.
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People have mentioned SSN issues a few times. Have you and your wife both gotten credit freezes? I would assume that MIL knows your wife's SSN. You should be proactive on this, as it sounds like MIL is falling into worse and worse paths.
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So sorry to read about your situation:-( Posting to follow.
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Your MIL staying with you "for a month" should be absolutely out of the question in this case, especially since "for a month" is likely code for "I fucked up my living situation so I'll stay with you guys indefinitely".
Agree with the previous advice of notifying guests that some gifts may have been stolen, then putting as much distance (physical, emotional and financial) between you guys and your toxic MIL as possible.
Good luck!!!
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I am so sorry this happened, sucky situation all round, I don't have any helpful advice beyond what has already been offered
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Loads of great advice in this post.
My 2cents. This is for your wife to handle for the most part.
I am not entirely sure that is always the right way. I think they should absolutely talk about it and establish whether or not the wife wants to handle it on her own or not. Some times (often) it is easier for an outsider to put up healthy boundaries. The wife has to agree to the boundaries, of course, but it can be helpful to have someone support you absolutely and give a helping hand when it's difficult. Even just knowing that husband will say no if wife is not able to can be the mental kick needed to take a deep breath and say that "no" yourself.
I grew up in a mentally abusive household with certain abusive extended family as well. Then I blundered into an abusive friendship as a teen. It took over ten years and moving to the other side of the country, plus finally building a healthy circle of friends, before I was able to tear away to a level I was actually comfortable with. It is damn difficult and takes a whole lot of practice/trying/failing, even when you really want to tear yourself away from it.
I am sincerely sorry you have to deal with this kind of thing.
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Dunno, I'm sorry this happened, but if it kept you from letting your MIL come for what she hoped to turn into a permavisit (IF that was her intent and IF she did it), you may have dodged a bullet.
Another thought to add: if you do reach out to your guests, be sure to lead with an acknowledgement that you did not ask for gifts. You don't want this pinata to explode into something that looks like a reverse gift grab. Plus, everyone's heard stories of gifts being stolen, so this is, sadly, somewhat familiar territory.
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posting to follow. So glad we got married in Vegas.
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posting to follow. So glad we got married in Vegas.
We eloped close to home. Best idea ever.
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I am so sorry this happened- I always give gifts by check in these situations- I would want to know so I could stop payment or see if it has been cashed.
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People will see the thank you as a confirmation that you got their gift. If you skip over thanking them for a gift in the thank you card, they will wonder what happened. At least, that happened for us. Several people reached out to say they were glad to (finally!) know we had gotten their gifts. This was 3 months after the wedding, after a 2 week honeymoon, almost another 2 weeks without water at our house, and then busy season at our jobs. People were beginning to wonder if we'd ever gotten some things!
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Hey trailrated, any update?
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PTF. I will say, if I gave a gift at a wedding and got a generic thank you note that didn't mention it, I would be fine with that politeness-wise. The bride and groom have loads of notes to write, I'm not going to demand that mine is super-personal. So if you did want to send out "Thank you for coming" notes now and investigate later so as not to bother guests who don't need it and to be prompt about thank yous, I think that's fine.
Same here. Truth be told, no note would be fine by me as well - If I attend a wedding and/or give a gift it's to benefit the happy couple, not inconvenience them with complicated note writing.
Most importantly, however, is communicating frankly with your wife about her mother as similar situations might plague you for years to come. I am surprised she's OK with your MIL visiting so soon after stealing some/most of your wedding gifts.
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PTF.
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posting to follow. I also think as a courtesy would be good to send out a message to all, saying cards went missing and if sent gift not acknowledged please contact. Also suggest if ones gone missing to cancel check or gift card if possible. I know if my gift did not go to intended recipient I would want to be informed.
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Also posting to follow!