Author Topic: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?  (Read 7420 times)

CindyBS

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
Just curious who else out there is in a bad spot while simultaneously working towards FIRE?  Or trying to?  Or FIRED?

My personal situation is that I have a 14 year old son who was diagnosed with cancer in the summer of 2016 and then after extended chemo that had not worked as we hoped, he got a bone marrow transplant in June 2017.  He is still recovering from transplant (can take up to a year), not able to go to school, many Dr. appts, etc.   I quit my job to become a full time caregiver.   We do fine financially, this is the ultimate use of FU money, but month after month knowing what it could be is hard and the FIRE date just keeps getting pushed back.   One more thing to mourn the loss of.

My son had a minor setback last week, he's fine, but it just postponed me trying to get back to work by at least a month.   

pbnj

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 88
So sorry about your son's diagnosis and for your hardships.  I hope the transplant is successful.

I wish you and your family all the best.

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4385
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Florida
I'm so sorry for what you're going through

To answer your question, me!   Not cancer, but my wife and I hit our FI number then she suffered a rare spine injury while working out. 
(spinal csf leak) Misdiagnoses for months, ER trips, incorrect diagnosis, then finally got the right diagnosis and dealt with long wait lists, six procedures, and three cross country trips to high end specialists.   We think we got it sealed in late August and today is the eight week anniversary.  Recovery is tough, we're not out of the woods yet.

I wish I could say I never thought about FI, the dates being pushed out, or that all of our hard work may never be enjoyed, but all of those thoughts happened and they're real.  Don't for a minute feel guilty for thinking it, that's part of being human and having goals.   This has changed my perspective though of whats important.  I even logged some of my random thoughts in the journal below.   I really appreciated the people I worked with, struggled with balancing everything, but ultimately my wife has to come first.  I can get another job if they decide they don't want me.  My boss and company have been supportive and I think I'll end up reaching some financial milestones that'll cover any additional medical costs in early retirement.

I wish you and your son the best in your healing.  The only advice I can share is to look after your own mental and physical health too.

Astatine

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3676
  • Location: Australia
  • Pronouns: they/them
Sorry to hear about your son, hope he gets the best possible outcome from his treatment.

I sort of had something similar, but my perspective is a bit different. I've had a whole bunch of different serious health issues since 2012. One of them was a stage 2 cancer diagnosis 2 years ago which required surgery, chemo, radiation and then I had a further minor surgery this year to help prevent recurrence. We didn't go financially backwards while I went through treatment (I was still able to work p/t from home and DH worked from home nearly f/t) but we didn't add much to savings during that time.

My main problem is juggling the survival stats vs FIRE date. If I knew I only had a few years to live, I'd quit my job now (approx 15% chance of this). But if I have a few decades left in me, then I need to keep working for quite a while longer (approx 85% chance of this).

AnnaGrowsAMustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1941
  • Location: Noo Zilind
This is exactly what some of the people on this board so far fail to understand - life. If I were in your position, I wouldn't be bothered about FIRE. Much more important things to think about. Sometimes you just have to focus on the present, right?

Best wishes for your son's swift recovery.

Milizard

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 769
  • Location: West Michigan
So sorry about your son.  That must be so hard.

As to your question,  absolutely.  I never made much, so thought FIRE was off the table for me, despite being a good saver all of my life.  When my dad died, I inherited a sum that was far from getting me there, but more than 10% got me there. I had almost as much saved on my own, so FIRE seemed to come back into the realm of possibility.  I also inherited caring for my elderly  mother. As her health was fading, I was having a second baby.  Fast forward a  few months, and I decided to quit work and go back to school for a year to buy some time.  2/3 of the way through, mom health was in jeopardy.  Was told she had maybe 6-12 months.  Finished my degree and hung tight, cause who can do well at a new job and deal with all that succesfully?  Well, it's been over 3 years now that I'm caring for her, and I'm middle-aged. My degree is growing stale and I'm nearing the unemployable age. I finally managed to get a job paying 75% of my old salary.  Figured out the net just wasn't worth the trouble. I'm afraid I'll never get back to my modest prior salary when it's all said and done.  And I'm afraid I won't be able to provide help with my kids college when the time comes for that.  So, my dreams of FIRE are rapidly diminishing.  I am required to take small RMDs from my inheritance each year, which I need for expenses, as my DH's salary is also modest.  We had very old vehicles that has to be replaced as well.  The drain on it is as minimal as I can make it without going full on mustachian.

CindyBS

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
Thanks for all the responses and I'm sorry you all have been going through.

I feel so fortunate that my husband has a well paying job and good health insurance and that we lived for years below our means.  FU money buys a lot of peace of mind in this situation. 

However, I also feel very isolated.  I spent a lot of time online b/c of my limited ability to go out in the real world.   The majority of the parents in my support groups are barely scraping by financially - there is definitely no space to talk about things like how to maximize your HSA useage when you have thousands and thousands of $$ of medical expenses each year.   

But then sometimes I feel like I can't relate to people on this board either.  We all have troubles in life and I'm sure people here have some they are not sharing publicly.  But I hear a lot of "how do I maximize this vs maximize this", which is not bad in itself - but on a day when I struggle to psychologically put 1 foot in front of the other, I need to talk about "how do a maintain a dream in spite of everything".   I also get a lot of well meaning people who say I shouldn't worry about FIRE.  I have lost a lot in life, I am not willing to give up my dreams either.   Dreams are like hope for a cure - they get you through the tough days. 

Anyway, thanks for listening.  Maybe we should have our own thread.  Fire through tragedy or something like that. 


chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4385
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Florida
Cindy - Good luck to you.   We 100% felt the same way when we saw others on the support group with their struggles and even when we met someone in person from the group who was in the room next to us at the hospital.  I could tell she was struggling with long term disability filings and denials and here we are with my income covering all our expenses and not needing a job.

Its very isolating and its okay to want an outlet!

ooeei

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1142
There has been lots of cancer in my family, and I'm sorry to hear about your son. Luckily you live in a time with the best cancer medicine in all of human history, so there are a lot of treatment options out there depending on the specifics of the situation.  It's expensive and it sucks, but I can't think of a better use of money than saving your son's life.

At the risk of sounding insensitive, if you've ever considered writing a book or blogging, this is a financial niche that I haven't heard much of before. I'm sure there are people who'd like to read your story and how you deal with everything while still keeping your finances in order.

Every week or two we get someone coming on these forums who wants to start a blog or write a financial independence book, and the answer is always to find a niche that hasn't been done already. You've already got that, maybe it's the (very thin) silver lining to your (very large) cloud.

One benefit of a blog might be finding more like minded people, or at least people who can relate more to your struggles. Then again, there will be some assholes out there as well.

Schaefer Light

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1328
It's probably not as painful as what you're dealing with, but I'm going through a divorce right now.  The legal bills, asset split, and alimony payments will probably delay my FIRE plans, but the more painful issue is that I now lack a vision about what I want to do when I retire.  My wife and I had hoped to move to a warmer climate where we could spend lots of time enjoying the outdoors year round.  While there are still outdoor activities that I enjoy doing alone (or with friends) and I'd like to have more time for them, retirement doesn't seem like nearly as big a deal without a spouse to enjoy it with. 

I'll continue to pursue financial independence, but now I've got some thinking to do about the early retirement side of things.

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22421
  • Age: 66
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 09:41:58 AM »
Not to minimize your situation in any way, but there are also people who achieve FIRE and then become full-time caregivers to elderly parents with failing health...

There is hope for your son's recovery, which is awesome. Yeah, your FIRE dream might take longer to achieve, but the gift of having time to nurture your son is priceless. There really is no guarantee that your FIRE dreams are going to look exactly as you imagined, because life is just too damn random.

I use this forum to keep from feeling trapped or isolated. It really, really helps.

Best wishes to you and your family as you work through this.

honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 09:56:37 AM »
Cindy - best wishes to your son and I hope he is cured soon.

My spouse was diagnosed with cancer about a year ago. He had extremely invasive surgery and radiation. We are doing well now, but it was hard for a long time. Lots of 'fuck it' grocery deliveries and money expenditures (see: Vitamix thread) that I just didn't worry about. Luckily our finances supported our needs and we are well insured, etc. The emotional toll of being essentially a single parent and caregiver for a 6 month stint... it was hard. FIRE was the furthest thing from my mind.

You mentioned being lonely. Are there any cancer-caregiver support groups in your area? I've been going to one and it was really beneficial to be around people who REALLY understood.


tipster350

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2017, 10:01:33 AM »


But then sometimes I feel like I can't relate to people on this board either.  We all have troubles in life and I'm sure people here have some they are not sharing publicly.  But I hear a lot of "how do I maximize this vs maximize this", which is not bad in itself - but on a day when I struggle to psychologically put 1 foot in front of the other, I need to talk about "how do a maintain a dream in spite of everything".   I also get a lot of well meaning people who say I shouldn't worry about FIRE.  I have lost a lot in life, I am not willing to give up my dreams either.   Dreams are like hope for a cure - they get you through the tough days. 

Anyway, thanks for listening.  Maybe we should have our own thread.  Fire through tragedy or something like that.

I can and do relate.

I don't even have a partner to share my thoughts/struggles with, and I had no choice but to continue working through all the caregiving and associated stress, so it's been incredibly isolating.

I fully understand about wanting to keep the goal of FIRE in place despite everything. If I put it aside it would be one more sacrifice, the one gift to myself I had in process.

I put one foot in front of the other. Progress slowed to a crawl but it didn't stop. I made decisions that made it harder for me in the short term but better in the long run, that a lot of people didn't understand. I'm not completely on the other side of it, but mostly am. And I do not regret my decisions.

I'm back to saving at a high rate/

I think a lot of members on this site, especially the younger ones, may not have a full appreciation of the fact that this type of situation IS real life. Anything can happen. Your FI number needs to encompass changes in health and circumstances over the course of a lifetime. There are needs you will have that you cannot anticipate.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 10:08:38 AM by tipster350 »

Adventine

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2425
  • Location: Memphis, USA
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2017, 10:04:16 AM »
Hello Cindy. Sorry to hear about your troubles. You're not alone.

Other posters have mentioned their own struggles with FIRE. I've recently become one of those Mustachians in crisis (full story here in my journal).

We're here for you, and we're rooting for you, and this is a safe space to rant about all the shit that life throws at you.

elaine amj

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5576
  • Location: Ontario
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2017, 11:04:10 AM »
(((big hugs)) I think medical crisis in children is even more heartbreaking and challenging than in adults. I cannot even imagine. I am so very, very sorry for what you're dealing with.

*Warning - this got a little lengthy. Obviously I feel more passionately than I had expected!*

We have been well on our way to FIRE. Was even considering FIRE on a bare bones budget last year. Then last February, DH got diagnosed with cancer. We went through treatment and everything and he got the all clear in October and he went back to work in November. Two weeks later, he was off work again with symptoms his doctors could not understand. Several months later, new scans showed that the cancer has returned.

It's been a journey. And has definitely cost a little more - so many expensive health supplements, eating out more to tempt his appetite, and a very splurgy vacation (he asked for some upgrades) this year. Thankfully, the very fact that we had been working on a path to FIRE set us up in a very comfortable spot financially. At the very beginning when he first got diagnosed, I was able to turn to my husband and say, "the one thing we do not have to worry about is finances. You can stop working, I can stop working, whatever it takes - we'll be all right financially". The comfort in being able to say something like that was a wonderful gift to our family.

Last night, my husband was filled with self pity. We had a long talk about it as we were prepping our made-from-scratch dinner and spending the hours it takes to prepare nutritious smoothies and healthy vegetable juices for the next few days. Despite his illness, we have been blessed with so very, very much, including our faith in a God who gives us peace and joy that really does surpass all understanding. So instead of a long night filled with the drudgery of never-ending chores revolving around his illness, we had a joy-filled night where we worked together to tackle the tasks to provide him what he needs with love and a dash of good humor.

I'd suggest rather than counting this as a loss of your FIRE dreams, to consider what an incredible blessing your FIRE dream was to your family. It is so amazing that you were able to quit your job to be there with your son and to still be comfortable financially. Also, are you able to find some joy in not having to go to work every day? I know it's a far cry from being able to FIRE to have fun every day though. Still, even my husband admits it's nice to be able to sleep in some days (when he doesn't have health-appointments), to be able to spend time messing around the garden, and not have to care about what to wear or how his hair looks like.

We still plug away at FIRE. I still work away at maximizing such-and-such and reducing my grocery expenses, and find a more economical way to do something or say XX purchase does not bring enough value to our lives. With a medical crisis, I think being careful with expenses is even more important. The last thing I want is to come out at the end of this tunnel to find my financial life in a shambles. Even though it is very tempting to throw money at every problem and to splurge for every bucket list dream. Whether my husband survives this or not, my children and I will still be here and we need to be responsible for them too. Besides, if there is one thing Mustachianism taught me - it's that you can find joy and happiness in so many things that don't cost a penny.

Likewise, I have been clear to my husband that while we will all do whatever it takes to work together to beat this, if there is another option, we will not be sacrificing our children's childhood. Yes, they are in their teens but they still need our love and attention. It's a tough balance when the temptation is there to put all the attention on my husband's illness. But they still need to be able to agonize over what dress to wear for that party or help studying for that tricky test. On that same note, I have my own needs too. Last year, while he was going through daily radiation, I was training almost daily for a grueling 8 hour adventure race. Maybe it was a little selfish as it made me a little less available to help my husband and I was stretched pretty thin but it was an important goal for me and I did not want the cancer to take away yet another important thing.

So, I still say, "maybe next year, we'll FIRE..." and I'm still hopeful even though I've bumped up our FIRE number considerably to include a more generous budget for possible medical expenses. I realized we are not quite as invincible as I had previously believed. I still retain the hope of being able to FIRE/switch to part-time next year to be able spend more time with my DH, come what may.

joonifloofeefloo

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4865
  • On a forum break :)
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2017, 11:14:56 AM »
We're no longer in crisis -are doing very well currently- but have been dealing with pretty tough stuff for many years. I wrote my experience and strategies here: https://brainquirkcash.com/book-reviews/ 

I agree that holding the dream, while balancing that with sufficient rest and support, is important. I think it is indeed a very different journey than that of the high-paid engineer with a straightforward life. At the same time, there are heaps of us in this boat, so none of us is alone in it.

dresden

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 126
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2017, 11:48:16 AM »
I am so sorry your son has to go through this, but glad to hear he is recovering.
Our situation is minor in comparison but is thwarting our plans.

1200 / month to my dad who would do the same if he was in my shoes.  We also send money to my mom from time to time.   

I was in a car accident in February and banged up with multiple fractured vertebrae,non stop headaches among other issues.   Full time has been too much for me since and going part time starting 1/1, but not sure I can keep working until 60 when my pension starts.  Due to frugal lifestyle we will still be cash positive each month when I go part time on 1 salary helping out parents.  Still circumstances are setting us back but not derailing us.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 11:50:26 AM by dresden »

tipster350

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2017, 11:53:50 AM »

I agree that holding the dream, while balancing that with sufficient rest and support, is important. I think it is indeed a very different journey than that of the high-paid engineer with a straightforward life. At the same time, there are heaps of us in this boat, so none of us is alone in it.

It's also different for those with pensions in the mix.

I find myself skimming the posts of the high paid engineers/pensioners for potential nuggets but getting more from those with experiences more closely related to mine.

Bee21

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 609
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2017, 03:33:24 PM »
It is hard to deal with this. Concentrate on the well being of your child (and yours) and reasess the financial plans regularly. At least you don't have financial problems to deal with.

we are currently sitting on a fence as I have just requested testing for my husband (who makes 3x more than what I do) and one of my kids for a very nasty genetic condition. He never suspected that something might be wrong with him. They are never sick. And now this. There are a lot of expensive medical appointments in our future as this thing affects multiple systems and is difficult to diagnose but it can be  life threatening so we need to know. We are just about to begin the testing and we are freaking out. Big time. All i can say, with that disaster looming,  I am glad that we are financially secure and debt free, and sitting on a large pile of cash. We will deal with the rest somehow. 

Lathome

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2017, 09:56:32 PM »
I agree that crisis or long term disability issues require a different approach to FIRE. Our son has a high level of disability and in addition to having affected my career choices, it has come with significant costs. It also will require a certain degree of ongoing financial support for him as he will never support himself independently. I run numbers endlessly but have accepted that there’s no way to ignore the differential impact that health issues can bring. I also see a tremendous amount of financial crisis in families dealing with health crises and/or chronic disability in children. Frequently one parent quits work or they are single parent families. Compassionate, realistic and empathetic financial advice that could translate some of the “frugal principles” around Mustachians without bringing excess stress could be a great niche.

I hope your son continues to show progress and that you find the strength and space you need as a caregiver

joonifloofeefloo

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4865
  • On a forum break :)
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2017, 10:45:18 PM »
Compassionate, realistic and empathetic financial advice that could translate some of the “frugal principles” around Mustachians without bringing excess stress could be a great niche.

This is what my book is :)
It's had a couple of free days, and was tweeted by Mr Money Mustache. Would love for anyone here to check it out!

Erica

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
  • Married
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2017, 11:31:13 PM »
Wow so sorry you're family is enduring this. I'll pray for you all, and especially, your son.

About FIRE, I would memorize the state handbook. We are in California so it's called a Manual of Policy and Procedures MPP. Also good to read the County letters. Should be posted on your state website. You should make assumptions you don't want to make and protect your assets accordingly. He may need to get onto the states medicaid program. Cancer can wipe a family out. It won't hurt to visit an attorney who specializes in this just to get a consultation. Somehow educate yourself enough to plan for the unpredictable future. Learning about countable income, and the assets are very flexible now with medicaid expansion. Otherwise I have nothing else to offer, sorry.

Maybe I am being cynical but here are a few hypothetical questions to consider- what would happen if a job loss occurred? what would happen regarding your sons health insurance? Can you afford COBRA? Can you afford to donate so much $$ to a 401k, retirement account, to lower MAGI if needed, if possible? Not trying to place more weight to your heavy burden.

My preferable answer would be to ensure your son is saved. If you all are not involved in a good bible believing church, this is the most important. The here and now is a blink of an eye compared to eternity. ((Blessings to your family)).
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 11:40:59 PM by Erica »

snacky

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10872
  • Location: Hoth
  • Forum Dignitary
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2017, 11:51:30 PM »
As you can see, you are not alone. I got sick in early 2016 and have been unable to work. Life and priorities are a lot different for me than they are for some of the others on these boards.

The journals section is full of kind, compassionate people. Many haven't been through anything like what I am experiencing, but all are wonderfully supportive. Come join us, if you want to.

CindyBS

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2017, 07:45:57 AM »


My preferable answer would be to ensure your son is saved. If you all are not involved in a good bible believing church, this is the most important. The here and now is a blink of an eye compared to eternity. ((Blessings to your family)).

While I believe you intentions are good, this is an extremely inappropriate thing to say to someone in my circumstances.  Unless the person in a crisis mentions a belief in god, all these types of comments and discussions should be avoided.

Imagine the worst thing that has ever happened to you.  Now imagine in that moment, I came to you and told you to stop believing in fairy tales and the most important thing would be for you to turn to reason and accept there is no god at all.  If you just give up all the nonsense, you will be fine. 

That would be hurtful and insulting, right? 

That is how those types of comments like yours read to an agnostic or atheist in my situation.  While I speak for myself only, I am in a support group for parents of kids with cancer who are non-believers and that opinion has been expressed time and time again.  Don't kick us while we are already down, no matter how well intentioned, it is a crappy thing to do.  Even worse is to say this type of thing to my kids, because on top of being hurtful, then you are undermining my right to teach my child as I see fit in the realm of religion. 

I am trying to say this in a respectful way, please don't make comments like that going forward.

onehair

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2017, 09:28:42 AM »
I wasn't planning on full on FIRE before this forum other than avidly reading MMM's blog but I had been saving my tail off and smirking over my little gains.  Then my son got sick and my sort of SO managed to get in dutch at work be forced to retire and this threw my plans into chaos.  I hope for your son's full recovery and completely understand.  I had to take loans from my retirement and the credit union to get by which I hated but he needed meds and rent had to be paid plus groceries.  Even if you don't fully FIRE it puts quite the crimp in it doesn't it?

You will get past this maybe not be able to do as much you'd hoped but like John Lennon said life is what happens when you're making other plans.  I don't need to tell you to focus on your son. 


Us2bCool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 88
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2017, 09:57:38 AM »
Yes, we're in that boat right now. My husband was diagnosed with cancer this June.

He's disappointed that this will set us back from our ER date, but I'm just thankful that we have the cash to pay the expenses coming up. Like you, he's going to have a bone marrow transplant, and we're going to have to get an apartment near the hospital for 3-4 months. The amount of rent is more than you can imagine...like take what you think is the most outrageous price for a 1-bedroom apartment and double it. We can't rent out our house because our daughter is still in high school, so she has to stay there (with relatives coming in to stay with her).  So we're just going to have to pay out of pocket. Ouch

That said, it was a good feeling telling our friends that they don't have to set up a GoFundMe for us.


JanetJackson

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 733
  • Location: United States
    • How I actually made $50 just for taking a survey and being in the healthcare marketplace
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2017, 10:08:00 AM »


My preferable answer would be to ensure your son is saved. If you all are not involved in a good bible believing church, this is the most important. The here and now is a blink of an eye compared to eternity. ((Blessings to your family)).

While I believe you intentions are good, this is an extremely inappropriate thing to say to someone in my circumstances.  Unless the person in a crisis mentions a belief in god, all these types of comments and discussions should be avoided.

Imagine the worst thing that has ever happened to you.  Now imagine in that moment, I came to you and told you to stop believing in fairy tales and the most important thing would be for you to turn to reason and accept there is no god at all.  If you just give up all the nonsense, you will be fine. 

That would be hurtful and insulting, right? 

That is how those types of comments like yours read to an agnostic or atheist in my situation.  While I speak for myself only, I am in a support group for parents of kids with cancer who are non-believers and that opinion has been expressed time and time again.  Don't kick us while we are already down, no matter how well intentioned, it is a crappy thing to do.  Even worse is to say this type of thing to my kids, because on top of being hurtful, then you are undermining my right to teach my child as I see fit in the realm of religion. 

I am trying to say this in a respectful way, please don't make comments like that going forward.

+1

Trifle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5975
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Outside, NC, US
    • In The Garden
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2017, 10:47:54 AM »
Hi Cindy
You are not alone.  Crisis situations don't often get a lot of ink on this forum, but many of us are in them.  A year and a half ago I had a stage 2 cancer diagnosis with all of the shitty treatments and scary statistics that follow that.  I have young kids.  I am still chugging along toward FIRE, without knowing if I will live to enjoy it.  The way I cope with the anxiety most of the time is by pushing it away mentally and doing my best to somehow, somehow believe that I might be ok.  At the same time as I am doing that, another part of my brain is doing all the thought experiments of what it will be like if and when the cancer grows again and I run out of time.   That constant push-pull of optimism, fear, and anxiety really wears me down sometimes.  I find that talking about it doesn't usually help, so I generally don't.  I just keep putting one foot in front of the other. 
Your situation is definitely tougher than mine, as it involves your child.  Many hugs and best wishes.
T
   

honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2017, 10:57:21 AM »


My preferable answer would be to ensure your son is saved. If you all are not involved in a good bible believing church, this is the most important. The here and now is a blink of an eye compared to eternity. ((Blessings to your family)).

While I believe you intentions are good, this is an extremely inappropriate thing to say to someone in my circumstances.  Unless the person in a crisis mentions a belief in god, all these types of comments and discussions should be avoided.

Imagine the worst thing that has ever happened to you.  Now imagine in that moment, I came to you and told you to stop believing in fairy tales and the most important thing would be for you to turn to reason and accept there is no god at all.  If you just give up all the nonsense, you will be fine. 

That would be hurtful and insulting, right? 

That is how those types of comments like yours read to an agnostic or atheist in my situation.  While I speak for myself only, I am in a support group for parents of kids with cancer who are non-believers and that opinion has been expressed time and time again.  Don't kick us while we are already down, no matter how well intentioned, it is a crappy thing to do.  Even worse is to say this type of thing to my kids, because on top of being hurtful, then you are undermining my right to teach my child as I see fit in the realm of religion. 

I am trying to say this in a respectful way, please don't make comments like that going forward.

You are too nice. The comment is obnoxious and rude and has no place anywhere in life or on the internet.

joonifloofeefloo

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4865
  • On a forum break :)
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2017, 11:22:02 AM »
CindyBS, your response to the inappropriate comment was incredible. Kind, assertive, balanced, clear. A beautiful contribution to the forum. Thank you!

Caoineag

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Michigan
    • My Journal
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2017, 11:57:39 AM »
Not in crisis now, but have been through an amount that seems quite absurd and expect at least a few more (hopefully after FIRE). For awhile, keeping my head (mostly) above water was my main accomplishment (aka not drowning). During that period, I just focused on working with what I had. For me, it was easier to focus on doing what I could, then focusing on what goals I was not going to be able to accomplish.

That's part of what drives me to FIRE. I want the freedom to be able to handle life's emergencies without having a financial component complicating things. A +1 to the comment about checking out the journals, a lot of people discuss the more nuanced issues of life in that section in a way you don't see in the main forum areas.

Be kind to your self. While it's true that a crisis can set you back, a future good event may erase that impact. Life is long and things can change a lot along the way.

CindyBS

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2017, 02:59:14 PM »
Yes, we're in that boat right now. My husband was diagnosed with cancer this June.

He's disappointed that this will set us back from our ER date, but I'm just thankful that we have the cash to pay the expenses coming up. Like you, he's going to have a bone marrow transplant, and we're going to have to get an apartment near the hospital for 3-4 months. The amount of rent is more than you can imagine...like take what you think is the most outrageous price for a 1-bedroom apartment and double it. We can't rent out our house because our daughter is still in high school, so she has to stay there (with relatives coming in to stay with her).  So we're just going to have to pay out of pocket. Ouch

That said, it was a good feeling telling our friends that they don't have to set up a GoFundMe for us.

Do you have a Hope Lodge available?  It is like a Ronald McDonald House for adults.

https://www.cancer.org/treatment/support-programs-and-services/patient-lodging/hope-lodge.html


Good Luck with the transplant - Auto or Allo?  My son had an Allo.  Luckily we lived close enough to the hospital we were allowed to go home after transplant, although we had to be able to get him into the hospital within 60 minutes at all times for the first 100 days, which kind of limited our ability to even go 30 minutes away from home. 

Best of Luck. 

frugalmom

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 89
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2017, 05:59:31 PM »
Cindy--

Feel free to PM me any time.  While I have not had a sick child---which would be way worse.  I have had cancer, failed IVF, a ridiculous divorce after 18 years of marriage, and just to add icing to the cake of fun I massive car accident (took the fire department 2 hours to get me out of the car).  Add to that I went back to work full time.  I could FIRE, but I am hanging out right now because I am afraid of medical costs in the long term.  I am only 40.  My daughter is 7.  I am working in the health insurance industry, because I am very curious about the industry as a whole. 

Bateaux

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2324
  • Location: Port Vincent
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2017, 10:30:42 PM »
Cindy it's tough.  We've discussed having transplant kids before.  The Allo transplant is more powerful as a cancer fighter.  Even a little GVHD can be a good thing.  Our son had a lot of GVHD unfortunately and 9 years post transplant he suffers bone and joint problems.   He just had a knee operation and will need another.  We were more worried about a GVHD flare up than the knee.  It's good thusfar.  This is a very tough journey to travel no doubt.  You have no choice but to fight on and encourage your child fight harder.  We know several transplant kids now and many of them are now young adults with college degrees and careers.  Come to us anytime you need to vent.  Good luck.  Stay strong.

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4385
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Florida
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2017, 07:51:04 AM »
Wow, I am really impressed with the amount of support and compassion here!

concealed stache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • Do you have a permit for that thing?
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2017, 07:01:36 PM »
Some moving stories here. Seeing what people are dealing with, day in, day out, and yet still moving forward one step at a time makes me realize how trivial some of the "problems" that we face truly are in comparison to the big events in life. I know that the good wishes of someone on the other side of the globe aren't worth much, but even so, you have them.

Life hasn't been that great here the last few months either... I have a young daughter, less than a year, born to me and an ex (she discovered she was pregnant shorlty after we split up and efforts to reconcile eventually came to nothing - I was strongly against bringing a child into the world between two separated parents, but it wasn't my choice to make). We live in a jurisdiction where there is no joint custody, and as the unmarried father my chances for challenging for custody are vanishingly small - which was fine until recently, as we had a very cooperative parenting style and I was able to get lots of time with my daughter. However, in recent months she seems to have decided that I am an unwelcome influence, as far as I can tell not because I have done anything recently but because she regrets ever being with me in the first place - understandable feelings no doubt, but this has resulted in much reduced chances to see my little angel. Her mother broke contact for 3 weeks and I had no idea when I might next be able to see my daughter - the wraithlike existence when you don't even know if you will ever see your child again is quite hard to put into words. When I finally did have a chance to see her, I was terrified that she might not even know who I was, although I'm happy to say that wasn't the case and she snuggled sraight into dad's shoulder.

It's hard to take for myself, but I also feel distraught that my daughter is missing out on half the love she deserves and everything else I can provide (to be clear, I am of course providing financially regardless). The research seems very clear on the effect on life outcomes of single-parent children, as a group, regardless of the heroic efforts of the parent. I just don't understand why things have to be this way and I am not getting much dialogue from her mother. Apparently her mid-term plan is to leave the country, which would really seal the deal. I resigned from my job to transition into FIRE as planned for so many years, but it doesn't look all the free time I will have is going to be filled up in quite the way I had hoped...

OK rant over. I know I am still ridiculously fortunate in so many ways and I try not to lose sight of that. But being optimistic about this is... hard.

calimom

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1364
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2017, 07:41:28 PM »
Concealed Stashe: I'm sorry to hear of the challenges and heartbreak you're experiencing. You sound like a good and concerned dad. Hopefully things work out better for you and your child. Cindy, I am pulling for you and your family. You guys are going through a very rough time and you seem to be handling things well under such horrifying circumstances.

I was widowed 10 years ago at 31. My 37 year old husband was killed by a drunk driver on his way home from work. Our kids were 1, 5 and 14 - the eldest was his daughter from his previous marriage who I became the legal guardian for after his death. We had to undergo some major life changes, primarily moving to a LCOL are where we have extended family for support, and also to realize and adapt to our new financial normal, which was not great. Not terrible, but certainly not on the track we were living in Silicon Valley. I'm pretty scrappy and wanted to do anything I could to salvage my kids' childhood. I've started a small business as well as a side hustle, and done some lower level investing in real estate. Having a somewhat flexible schedule has allowed me to participate in kid activities; I've never missed a swim meet or after school activity. After my youngest matriculated out of daycare I never had to have kids in aftercare.

And yet I have felt apart from other parents. It's been hard not to compare circumstances. Seeing happy healthy families with two living heathy parents and kids has caused me some envy (I'm not proud of that).  Even in my young-widowed community I have at times been aware of differences. Some years back I went to a widowed gathering generously hosted by a slightly older young widow with a house on the ocean in Santa Barbara. As others showed up: a 50-ish engineer dad with twin daughters, a 45-ish woman with only one child and a few fresh faced childless ladies. I remember thinking poor me! These little children, not rich, years from not having to make every single decision alone and not worry about finances. And then a 25 year old pregnant widow showed up and I had to rethink my pity party. We just never know what others are going through. Hopefully you continue to participate and give and get support from your online groups; it has helped me over the years.

Onward and upward, yes? I'm not one given to prayer or religion (like you it seems!) but can send good thoughts and hope for good health for your boy and a happy outcome for your family.

concealed stache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • Do you have a permit for that thing?
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2017, 08:51:18 PM »
calimom, I am honestly amazed at what you have been able to achieve. I mean, I know in a sense you have no choice but to make it happen as what else can you do but keep on doing your best every day, but to recover from your loss, work multiple income streams AND fully participate in the lives of 3 children - how lucky they are to have you as their mother.

I can understand how easy it is to envy people who seem to have the "normal" life. I just think you have to forgive yourself for that kind of minor indiscretion when you're making such a significant effort for the overwhelming majority of the time.

Astatine

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3676
  • Location: Australia
  • Pronouns: they/them
Re: Are you in a crisis (medical, caregiver, etc.?) and working towards FIRE?
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2017, 01:42:05 AM »
I can understand how easy it is to envy people who seem to have the "normal" life. I just think you have to forgive yourself for that kind of minor indiscretion when you're making such a significant effort for the overwhelming majority of the time.

I like this. I do sometimes envy people who have had a much more straightforward and simple life with no major health crises and actual loving supportive family. But I guess as long as I don't wallow in it and recognise I'm not going to be able to provide emotional support for some things*, it's a normal reaction and maybe part of the grieving process of not having the life you thought you would.

*eg I'm not the person to complain to if you now have to take a tablet per day (and you don't have any side effects)

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!