The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: Unionville on December 01, 2015, 10:17:31 PM
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Is it my imagination or are men's clothes better made than women's? Whenever I wander over into the men's departments, the clothes are thicker, have better material, and feel more substantial. I'm wondering if it makes sense to buy men's clothes and alter them. I'm tired of women's clothes that tear or wear out in just a few years.
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Comparing like with like tends to show that they are just as well made as one another - for instance plain t-shirts. However, women's clothing is more fashionable and therefore doesn't need to last as long (you will discard it next year for something more fashionable), and has more tizz on it (which increases its price) instead.
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Yes. If you compare price-point to price-point, men's clothes are made from better fabric. Not sure if the actual construction is always better, but the natural fibre content will be higher and the fabric will be thicker.
However, unless you have a very "manly" body shape, altering men's clothes to fit is likely to result in a lot of work for not-very-good-looking clothes. If you're going down that path, consider making your own from scratch! The time and skill taken to make something up from a bought pattern is not as much as people think. You can also put in a few details, like run and fell seams, which will make them more durable.
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Better fabric, better finishing (seam allowances,etc), better design (think pockets, ability to move). Yep.
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OMG YES POCKETS.
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My dad rarely has a button fall off. I'm constantly sewing them back on, or I would be if I hadn't already done all of them. Tells you something.
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My wife's clothing is very light weight and sheer in comparison to the stuff that I wear. It feels noticeably more flimsy to the touch.
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The fabric used for men's shirts and pants feels much thicker. However, I think the overall quality of women's clothing has declined in recent years. And the pricing seems to skew higher. Very frustrating.
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On my days off work, only the dogs/horse/burros/chickens/ducks see me.
They appear to have no aversion to me wearing Carhartts.
Which is good, as they wear like iron: I doubt I'll have to buy many more in my lifetime.
Agree with whomever posted that the 'expectation' with women's clothing is that you'll throw it out (!!!!) next year when it goes out of style.
As if!
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Glad someone posted this. When handle my wife's clothes I'm blown away by how thin and flimsy they feel compared to mine. I have some t-shirts that are more thin/stretchy and even they pale in comparison to how light my wife's stuff is.
Don't ya'll get cold???
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Glad someone posted this. When handle my wife's clothes I'm blown away by how thin and flimsy they feel compared to mine. I have some t-shirts that are more thin/stretchy and even they pale in comparison to how light my wife's stuff is.
Don't ya'll get cold???
YES
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This is definitely true for winter clothes. I have been buying men's flannel shirts (mostly Woolrich and Moose Creek) for years when I find them on sale, I just get 2 sizes smaller. It gets cold here in the winter, as we are at 5000 feet, and I have yet to find a decent heavy women's flannel shirt. I do wear the Carhartt women's flannels in early fall and spring, but they are not warm enough for winter. (I don't like being cold and I hate sweaters, they are itchy and get too hot when you are inside!) Fortunately I work in a casual environment, so I don't have to be "fashionable". The only downside with buying the men's is the colors are not the greatest, I usually only find 1 or 2 colors/patterns per season that I like.
It really annoys me, its like they don't think women ever go outside in the winter.
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I think this may be a matter of perception. There are some really crappy men's clothes at places like Banana Republic, but there are a lot more stores, and lot more floor space, dedicated to women's clothes. I bet the ratio of quality to crap is higher for men, but I bet the quantity of quality clothes are more or less equal, with the difference being that women have more options for fashionable garbage.
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I think this may be a matter of perception. There are some really crappy men's clothes at places like Banana Republic, but there are a lot more stores, and lot more floor space, dedicated to women's clothes. I bet the ratio of quality to crap is higher for men, but I bet the quantity of quality clothes are more or less equal, with the difference being that women have more options for fashionable garbage.
For the same brand, I can find quality men's clothes that last longer than women's. Hell, even at the low price point, the boy's jeans at target lasted longer than the women's.
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I think this may be a matter of perception. There are some really crappy men's clothes at places like Banana Republic, but there are a lot more stores, and lot more floor space, dedicated to women's clothes. I bet the ratio of quality to crap is higher for men, but I bet the quantity of quality clothes are more or less equal, with the difference being that women have more options for fashionable garbage.
But the PRICE is higher, significantly, for those rare items of quality women's clothing. And they really *aren't* that much higher quality than the crap. I've had nice brand clothing fall to bits on me with alarming frequency. It's the pink tax. And those "sturdier" clothes are tucked in the side and back of the stores, away from where they might contaminate the fashionable stuff, and the sizing is mysterious and made of black magic and demon writing. It sucks giant monkey balls and I hate it. (And mostly don't shop until suddenly I'm out of pants because every single one of them has split at the crotch and I've worn the butt off... and then it's to the thrift store)
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I'm only basing my guesses on my own experience. Also, for what it's worth, I am a man, although I frequently join my wife for shopping trips when they happen. I tend to shop mostly at Macy's, LL Bean and Jos. A Bank. I find that LL Bean has high quality stuff for men and women. Most Macy's clothes for men are good, and there are good clothes for women in amongst the racks and racks of junk. Jos. A Bank is obviously a different situation. I do agree about price, especially for jeans. My wife will easily spend $75 for a pair of jeans that are inferior to my $30 pair.
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What men's clothes last for years? I buy most of my clothes at Kohl's. I think it is good if I can get two years out of any of my clothes.
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What men's clothes last for years? I buy most of my clothes at Kohl's. I think it is good if I can get two years out of any of my clothes.
Khols is mostly crap.
Try the stores gReed Smith suggested: LL Bean, Macy's etc.
Or try thrift stores and look for thick fabric, good seams, and solid buttons.
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What men's clothes last for years? I buy most of my clothes at Kohl's. I think it is good if I can get two years out of any of my clothes.
I'm currently wearing a pair of khakis that I (read: my mom) bought 7 or 8 years ago from Sears. I didn't wear them much in college, but I put a good 2-3 years of wear on them when I was in high school (dress code, blegh) and now wear them to work. That's just walking around and sitting on my ass most of the day, though. The jeans I've gotten from Sears and/or JC Penny have lasted a good 4-5 years of normal wear and tear with occasional non-office type work.
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I think this may be a matter of perception. There are some really crappy men's clothes at places like Banana Republic, but there are a lot more stores, and lot more floor space, dedicated to women's clothes. I bet the ratio of quality to crap is higher for men, but I bet the quantity of quality clothes are more or less equal, with the difference being that women have more options for fashionable garbage.
But the PRICE is higher, significantly, for those rare items of quality women's clothing. And they really *aren't* that much higher quality than the crap. I've had nice brand clothing fall to bits on me with alarming frequency. It's the pink tax. And those "sturdier" clothes are tucked in the side and back of the stores, away from where they might contaminate the fashionable stuff, and the sizing is mysterious and made of black magic and demon writing. It sucks giant monkey balls and I hate it. (And mostly don't shop until suddenly I'm out of pants because every single one of them has split at the crotch and I've worn the butt off... and then it's to the thrift store)
Don't confuse quality with brand names, its not a pink tax its a fashion tax. It happens to fashionable men too, if you go to thrift stores you'll see lots of barely worn clothing for men, I've seen stuff with tags on which amazes me. Keep track of brands only so you can repurchase good quality items, same product forever! For sizes, just look at the tag of the ones you're wearing while shopping and purchase again. If they become small find the next size bigger...
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Generally, yes.
I have altered several thrift store men's button downs to fit me so I can have shirts with nice fabrics, matched plaids, and pockets that are actually big enough to fit something in! If I can find a shirt that is just a little bit too big, it's a simple matter of shortening and hemming the bottom, and taking in the side seams and underarm seams a little. I've also cut down Men's L/XL shirts and resewed as women's M, which is a lot more involved and basically meant resewing the entire garment (although I could typically leave details like collars and sleeve plackets intact to save time). Major resizing like this is probably only worth it if you enjoy sewing, but I think minor resizing of shirts that almost fit and only need small changes is definitely worth it.
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I think this may be a matter of perception. There are some really crappy men's clothes at places like Banana Republic, but there are a lot more stores, and lot more floor space, dedicated to women's clothes. I bet the ratio of quality to crap is higher for men, but I bet the quantity of quality clothes are more or less equal, with the difference being that women have more options for fashionable garbage.
But the PRICE is higher, significantly, for those rare items of quality women's clothing. And they really *aren't* that much higher quality than the crap. I've had nice brand clothing fall to bits on me with alarming frequency. It's the pink tax. And those "sturdier" clothes are tucked in the side and back of the stores, away from where they might contaminate the fashionable stuff, and the sizing is mysterious and made of black magic and demon writing. It sucks giant monkey balls and I hate it. (And mostly don't shop until suddenly I'm out of pants because every single one of them has split at the crotch and I've worn the butt off... and then it's to the thrift store)
Don't confuse quality with brand names, its not a pink tax its a fashion tax. It happens to fashionable men too, if you go to thrift stores you'll see lots of barely worn clothing for men, I've seen stuff with tags on which amazes me. Keep track of brands only so you can repurchase good quality items, same product forever! For sizes, just look at the tag of the ones you're wearing while shopping and purchase again. If they become small find the next size bigger...
Just to clarify, when I say the sizing is demon writing I don't mean that I don't know what my size is in this particular pair of pants, or what my dress size is in that particular dress. I'm more than capable of reading.
It's that there's no standardization, at all. Things run small or wide or big or long with nooooo warning. I am an 8 in this brand, and a 12 in another. I call that the pink MENTAL tax. I would really prefer NOT to try things on and spend that long shopping, but the alternative is to deal with returns, because at least 50% of what I pick up will not fit. I have fluxuated maybe 5 pounds in the last 5 years. It's an exhausting, weird, and body-shaming thing.
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Wow, I've never heard of the "Pink Tax" before.
When I looked it up on google I was stunned. You are right. Here are photos of the same items sold for 2 different prices in a store, one intended for men, the other for women (unfortunately in French, but you get the idea). http://womantax.tumblr.com/
Here's another stunning article:http://groundswell.org/ever-heard-of-the-pink-tax-4-items-women-pay-more-for/ Women shoe imports even have higher tariffs!
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I think this may be a matter of perception. There are some really crappy men's clothes at places like Banana Republic, but there are a lot more stores, and lot more floor space, dedicated to women's clothes. I bet the ratio of quality to crap is higher for men, but I bet the quantity of quality clothes are more or less equal, with the difference being that women have more options for fashionable garbage.
But the PRICE is higher, significantly, for those rare items of quality women's clothing. And they really *aren't* that much higher quality than the crap. I've had nice brand clothing fall to bits on me with alarming frequency. It's the pink tax. And those "sturdier" clothes are tucked in the side and back of the stores, away from where they might contaminate the fashionable stuff, and the sizing is mysterious and made of black magic and demon writing. It sucks giant monkey balls and I hate it. (And mostly don't shop until suddenly I'm out of pants because every single one of them has split at the crotch and I've worn the butt off... and then it's to the thrift store)
Don't confuse quality with brand names, its not a pink tax its a fashion tax. It happens to fashionable men too, if you go to thrift stores you'll see lots of barely worn clothing for men, I've seen stuff with tags on which amazes me. Keep track of brands only so you can repurchase good quality items, same product forever! For sizes, just look at the tag of the ones you're wearing while shopping and purchase again. If they become small find the next size bigger...
Just to clarify, when I say the sizing is demon writing I don't mean that I don't know what my size is in this particular pair of pants, or what my dress size is in that particular dress. I'm more than capable of reading.
It's that there's no standardization, at all. Things run small or wide or big or long with nooooo warning. I am an 8 in this brand, and a 12 in another. I call that the pink MENTAL tax. I would really prefer NOT to try things on and spend that long shopping, but the alternative is to deal with returns, because at least 50% of what I pick up will not fit. I have fluxuated maybe 5 pounds in the last 5 years. It's an exhausting, weird, and body-shaming thing.
That happens with men's clothing too, different brands fit differently. I wear size 32 or 33 Jeans depending on the brand, 18 years of the same size so I've tried a few different brands. There's also different cuts; relaxed, slim, boot cut etc. that all fit different and I can be a different size because I switch cuts. One chain store has names like "Alex, Mark etc." for their styles, shopping elsewhere is the easy out. My solution is to not change your wardrobe and buy the same article as the last time i.e. if I'm wearing Levi Jeans I look at the tag and buy another pair of Levi jeans.
As for the pink tax, its consumer choice still. I saw pacifiers in blue and pink in the link, with pink costing more, fashionable people say pink is for girls and pay extra. My daughter came home in a blue blanket because it was cheaper...feel free to insist all little girls need pink and pay extra for the stereotype. Society can make up a term like "Pink Tax" because all girls wear pink and consumers agree to it. Its shrewd marketing to get women to pay extra for the same item just because of a color, that's the consumers choice though.
Now if you called it a gender tax I'd buy into that.
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That happens with men's clothing too, different brands fit differently. I wear size 32 or 33 Jeans depending on the brand, 18 years of the same size so I've tried a few different brands. There's also different cuts; relaxed, slim, boot cut etc. that all fit different and I can be a different size because I switch cuts. One chain store has names like "Alex, Mark etc." for their styles, shopping elsewhere is the easy out. My solution is to not change your wardrobe and buy the same article as the last time i.e. if I'm wearing Levi Jeans I look at the tag and buy another pair of Levi jeans.
As for the pink tax, its consumer choice still. I saw pacifiers in blue and pink in the link, with pink costing more, fashionable people say pink is for girls and pay extra. My daughter came home in a blue blanket because it was cheaper...feel free to insist all little girls need pink and pay extra for the stereotype. Society can make up a term like "Pink Tax" because all girls wear pink and consumers agree to it. Its shrewd marketing to get women to pay extra for the same item just because of a color, that's the consumers choice though.
Now if you called it a gender tax I'd buy into that.
Re: the pink tax issue
Yes. A lot of it is because women want things that look flattering on them (women's clothes rather than gender neutral ones) or because they've been told that X razor shaves their legs better than Y razor for example (when that is probably not even true). This is partially conforming to society's expectations.
But it's still a nasty system that preys on people. You want something designed for your body, has room for your hips? Pay 20% more if you're a woman who still goes to work in a professional setting and needs to have pants that fit.
You wrapped your daughter in a blue blanket. That's awesome! Gendering babies is weird anyhow, and using arbitrary colors to do it is even weirder.
But someone still made that pink blanket more expensive. Someone thought and *implemented* the idea that "girl" items should cost more. That sucks! That's horrible! It's not that people are conforming to a stereotype that's bad (people can do whatever they want, and gender expression is really important to some people; I'm not going to take that away from folks) it's that someone, out there, is using it to make money off of women.
That's not. okay.
It's not the color pink (although that is frustratingly used). "Pink tax" Is short hand for allll the little things women get upcharged on. My favorite from meteor's second link was laundry/dry cleaning services for women's clothes, or plus sized women's clothes costing more when men's plus sized clothes don't. This is not pink versus blue color choices. This is just... life for lots of women.
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What men's clothes last for years? I buy most of my clothes at Kohl's. I think it is good if I can get two years out of any of my clothes.
I have a ton of 3-5 year old stuff in my closet, short list off the top of my head:
Bunch of hoodies: North face, billabong, etc.
Levis and Mavi jeans
Random t-shirts
American giant hoodie (how all clothing should be made!)
Some random slacks I got at marshalls and wore on the job (2 days in a row for each, lol!)
Various tech base layers for biking and running
Couple of columbia light shells for biking and running
Several pairs of sport shorts and cargo shorts
I have doubts as to whether anything in my wife's closet is 3 years old, lol!
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Glad someone posted this. When handle my wife's clothes I'm blown away by how thin and flimsy they feel compared to mine. I have some t-shirts that are more thin/stretchy and even they pale in comparison to how light my wife's stuff is.
Don't ya'll get cold???
YES
YES.
We are also fed up with it being such a mission to find clothing you can't see our underwear through.
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Yup, and it even extends to little girls/little boys clothes. I am so, incredibly tired of looking for clothes for my girls that aren't paper thin and so tight they end up outgrown within a couple months. Boys clothes are sturdier and sized more generously. Apparently little girls are supposed to wear thin, skin tight clothing at all times.
Luckily, I can sew a lot of our clothes. The tricky part is finding fabric that isn't paper thin.
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I am going to stoke the fire a bit by suggesting that woman's clothes have to work harder than men's clothes. I love my wife, but she will insist on buying a certain sized garment and then force herself into it. This may involve various body shaping undergarments. Can you expect a pair of pants to last as long when the fasteners and fabric are under such strain?
I assume that I am like most guys, and steer towards comfort. I have very few garments that are so tight that I feel my movements limited. Yes, jeans are heavy vs. shorts, but I can still move around freely without feeling like a button or seam is going to fail.
Also, +1 to men's clothing being thicker (more quality?) than a woman's. I would feel uncomfortable wearing the thin and sheer blouses my wife wears to work everyday.
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Glad someone posted this. When handle my wife's clothes I'm blown away by how thin and flimsy they feel compared to mine. I have some t-shirts that are more thin/stretchy and even they pale in comparison to how light my wife's stuff is.
Don't ya'll get cold???
You've heard about the Thermostat Wars, right?
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I am going to stoke the fire a bit by suggesting that woman's clothes have to work harder than men's clothes. I love my wife, but she will insist on buying a certain sized garment and then force herself into it. This may involve various body shaping undergarments. Can you expect a pair of pants to last as long when the fasteners and fabric are under such strain?
I assume that I am like most guys, and steer towards comfort. I have very few garments that are so tight that I feel my movements limited. Yes, jeans are heavy vs. shorts, but I can still move around freely without feeling like a button or seam is going to fail.
Also, +1 to men's clothing being thicker (more quality?) than a woman's. I would feel uncomfortable wearing the thin and sheer blouses my wife wears to work everyday.
Haha, you said you were going to stoke the fire. ;) I'll rise to the occasion.
Why should I expect my clothing to fall apart simply because I have boobs or hips? Skin tight jeans are under some additional strain, sure, but they should then be designed to deal with that. Isn't that the point? Why are inferior products acceptable? Men's clothing is often advertised as being able to deal with Tough Jobs and mud and crap seen on most truck commercials. Ready For Your Manly Lifestyle. Women's jeans should then be able to deal with the Tough Job of remaining intact, yes? It is far less intense. If fasteners and fabric are under the monuments, hulk-like strain of my body existing inside of them, they should be built with that in mind.
My skirt? The hem fell out in the first two months I owned it. There ain't no strain there.
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It's not the color pink (although that is frustratingly used). "Pink tax" Is short hand for allll the little things women get upcharged on. My favorite from meteor's second link was laundry/dry cleaning services for women's clothes, or plus sized women's clothes costing more when men's plus sized clothes don't. This is not pink versus blue color choices. This is just... life for lots of women.
Oh yes, don't even get me started!!1!11!1!!!
I was shopping for some wine and anything that was pink in the same brand cost way more!1!!1
;)
Seriously though, I think we may be reading a little bit too much into the pricing of different color items.
Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
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It's not the color pink (although that is frustratingly used). "Pink tax" Is short hand for allll the little things women get upcharged on. My favorite from meteor's second link was laundry/dry cleaning services for women's clothes, or plus sized women's clothes costing more when men's plus sized clothes don't. This is not pink versus blue color choices. This is just... life for lots of women.
Oh yes, don't even get me started!!1!11!1!!!
I was shopping for some wine and anything that was pink in the same brand cost way more!1!!1
;)
Seriously though, I think we may be reading a little bit too much into the pricing of different color items.
Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
As someone has previously said, men have a different shape to women, so men's clothes don't fit most women.
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It's not the color pink (although that is frustratingly used). "Pink tax" Is short hand for allll the little things women get upcharged on. My favorite from meteor's second link was laundry/dry cleaning services for women's clothes, or plus sized women's clothes costing more when men's plus sized clothes don't. This is not pink versus blue color choices. This is just... life for lots of women.
Oh yes, don't even get me started!!1!11!1!!!
I was shopping for some wine and anything that was pink in the same brand cost way more!1!!1
;)
Seriously though, I think we may be reading a little bit too much into the pricing of different color items.
Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
I used to, then I gave birth and I can't fit in them anymore because I have hips. Either they are too loose around my waist or they don't fit around my hips.
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Clothing stores produce whatever the demand is for. Clothes made from the thinner, more flimsy materials seem to flatter women's figures more in my experience, and also (at least around here) layering is in fashion right now, so people don't want stuff that's too thick. But I do see durable stuff around frequently as well - there just not much demand for it.
I prefer durability over fashion, and find that in Canada Old Navy and Warehouse One both seem to have stuff that both fits me well and last for years.
I think how long your clothing lasts depends a lot on how well you take care of it. Both my boyfriend and I find that our clothes last for years and years because we 1. wear things more than once before washing, 2. don't wash in hot water, and 3. hang everything to dry. We've been together for about 6.5 years, and both have clothing predating our relationship that's still in decent condition, so we must be doing something right.
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I'm nodding along to the people who are explaining that men's clothes don't fit them.
Men's T's don't fit women with larger breasts; the arms of dress shirts for men can fit whole babies where my arms swim around the shoulders; pants don't have room for hips and inseams have room for things I don't have. It's not a perfect 1 to 1 translation of don't like A buy B.
Also, I dislike the fact that it, however unconsciously, demonizes the feminine. Don't like paying more? Just be a man. (Yes I know this is hyperbole, but in the end, men's clothing being the 'default' sucks too.)
Women should be able to wear things they feel and look good in, without paying 20% more than men do for wearing things they feel and look good in.
I vacillate pretty strongly on how feminine I want to present. Some days it's a dress shirt tucked in to pants and flats and a sports bra or binder to keep everything ~in place~. Some days it's a dress and leather boots. I'm not a fashionista by annnny stretch of the means. But getting charged for wanting to be pretty when that makes me feel better... is not good.
(And I know, yes, it's true: Being Pretty (caps included) is a social construct. I'm not unaware of this, as I'm sure my comment will incite this discussion.)
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I'm a tall woman (5'9") and I'm a downhill skier. I only buy Columbia system jackets. The last one I bought was actually a men's coat. I love it because it has longer sleeves and is longer in the torso. The women's jackets are too short and although they are cute colors, I'll take my dark man looking coat over them because I am so much more comfortable in it. Although, now that I cut my hair short, I get called sir a lot! I can take it though because I am a mustachian and have good self esteem!
Miss Prim
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I generally see men's clothes advertised as being comfortable and durable, think Duluth Trading Co. Commercials or Wranglers commercials with Brett Favre. Women's clothes tend to be advertised as being cheap. Big sale this weekend! Come buy all the crap you can carry! This suggests to me that Mustachian women are in a bind because they don't conform to the largest swath of their demographic. Women as a group probably desire quantity over quality, so the manufacturers are not driven to improve quality. I would also venture a guess that women as a group spend a larger percentage of their disposable income on clothes because shopping is seen as entertainment, so they can charge more for women's clothes because demand is higher. Again, Mustachian women don't fit the general demographic.
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I am STILL mad about the difference in the dress uniforms I had to wear in the army 30 years ago. There's no reason the women's dress pants shouldn't have the same pockets as the men's pants. It's the army, not a freaking fashion adventure.
And the shirts, omg the stupid stupid dress shirts for women are cut to end abruptly right below the belt buckle in front and can't be tucked in, like the men's shirts can. I was the only woman in my reserve unit, and when we all got to climb into a T-72 tank and check it out, I had to bow out. The only way to lower ourselves into the turret would have involved lifting my elbows up to my shoulders - and I would have been flashing my chest to every dude I worked with.
Fashion owes me a visit inside a soviet tank, dang it.
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I read this (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704405704576063962680112114) Wall Street Journal article a few months ago. It touches on most of the issues touched on in this thread - trendiness equalling lower quality, flimsy fabric, etc.
We also seem to be experiencing the birth of a new clothing market, where traditionally masculine styles are being cut for women's shapes. Generally marketed as a 'butch' style, but maybe it will become a movement that can serve larger womenkind. Everyone deserves to own one really flattering (aka: well fitting) outfit, in whatever style makes them feel supercalafragalisticly hot.
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It's not the color pink (although that is frustratingly used). "Pink tax" Is short hand for allll the little things women get upcharged on. My favorite from meteor's second link was laundry/dry cleaning services for women's clothes, or plus sized women's clothes costing more when men's plus sized clothes don't. This is not pink versus blue color choices. This is just... life for lots of women.
Oh yes, don't even get me started!!1!11!1!!!
I was shopping for some wine and anything that was pink in the same brand cost way more!1!!1
;)
Seriously though, I think we may be reading a little bit too much into the pricing of different color items.
Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
I do, at work and at home. It's how I know they're better made.
But not everyone can, and now that I'm losing weight, I'm finding my men's dockers are less and less comfortable as I have to belt them tighter and the fabric bunches up. We'll see. I actually bought (thrift store) a pair of women's slacks to make a presentation at a major conference this weekend because of the problem. But I'm wearing men's on all the non-presenting and travel days.
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We also seem to be experiencing the birth of a new clothing market, where traditionally masculine styles are being cut for women's shapes. Generally marketed as a 'butch' style, but maybe it will become a movement that can serve larger womenkind. Everyone deserves to own one really flattering (aka: well fitting) outfit, in whatever style makes them feel supercalafragalisticly hot.
My wife wears some of the 'boyfriend style' stuff. Drives me nuts, I tell her straight up its not her best look but she loves the comfort and style. She is def not 'larger womankind' but I think regardless of body type a break from tight fitting thing clothes is probably nice.
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In the context of my post, larger meant a mainstream population, not weight. Guess that was lost.
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"Pink tax" Is short hand for allll the little things women get upcharged on. My favorite from meteor's second link was laundry/dry cleaning services for women's clothes, or plus sized women's clothes costing more when men's plus sized clothes don't. This is not pink versus blue color choices. This is just... life for lots of women.
Yes, yes, yes.
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I am STILL mad about the difference in the dress uniforms I had to wear in the army 30 years ago. There's no reason the women's dress pants shouldn't have the same pockets as the men's pants. It's the army, not a freaking fashion adventure.
And the shirts, omg the stupid stupid dress shirts for women are cut to end abruptly right below the belt buckle in front and can't be tucked in, like the men's shirts can. I was the only woman in my reserve unit, and when we all got to climb into a T-72 tank and check it out, I had to bow out. The only way to lower ourselves into the turret would have involved lifting my elbows up to my shoulders - and I would have been flashing my chest to every dude I worked with.
Fashion owes me a visit inside a soviet tank, dang it.
What the FUCK?!?!?! I cannot believe the ARMY did this. That is just... I really honestly am struggling to compute that. The ARMY.
I can't wear men's clothes. 5'2", tiny feet, pear shaped. Trousers don't fit my hips and waist (though I struggle with women's trousers not having enough shaping too, they are better). Shirts are comically baggy with really long arms. I have, however, had some success buying good children's tops and knitwear.
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Perhaps a large part of the reason women's clothes are less durable is because the average women buys so many clothes and thus doesn't wear any one item very much. I know that most of the women here don't buy very many clothes and would rather have them last longer.
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In the context of my post, larger meant a mainstream population, not weight. Guess that was lost.
Haha, I guess so. My bad. :)
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I wonder if there is an economy of scale effect at all with regard to the 20% "pink" tax.
Men, in general, tend to be a bit boring with a lot of fashion. Clothes come in three colors: blue, black, or grey. We tend to buy lots of tshirts and jeans, and are upset when the Levi's cut of "straight leg, comfort fit" jeans changes for the first time in 30 years to reflect updated styles. This also carries over to dress shirts, suits, shoes, etc.
Could it be that men's clothes are more rugged and cheaper because they can produce a lot more of the same and no one cares? Conversely (mustachian women aside), women's clothing lines tend to be shorter, smaller runs of product due to fashion changes, and tend to encompass a wider variety of colors and styles.
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I'd say that my clothes do seem to be significantly more durable than my wife's.
On the fit side of things, I like to say that men's clothes are designed by women that hate men... I swear, nobody can even get the basics of men's clothes right. Pockets that are angled so all your stuff falls out when you sit down. Pockets that are too small for hands, etc. The sizes are so ridiculously inconsistent. I have 36 waist jeans I can't squeeze in to, but also have 33s that are fine. My shirt size is a M, L, or XL depending on the individual shirt (even brands aren't consistent).
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It is not just men's clothes, plus sizes in the same brand are far better constructed, too!
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I'd say that my clothes do seem to be significantly more durable than my wife's.
On the fit side of things, I like to say that men's clothes are designed by women that hate men... I swear, nobody can even get the basics of men's clothes right. Pockets that are angled so all your stuff falls out when you sit down. Pockets that are too small for hands, etc. The sizes are so ridiculously inconsistent. I have 36 waist jeans I can't squeeze in to, but also have 33s that are fine. My shirt size is a M, L, or XL depending on the individual shirt (even brands aren't consistent).
That just sounds like men's clothing are starting to have some of the downsides women's clothing have had decades. You know, "but if you fill up a large pocket, it'll mess up the line! Carry a bag instead" and "look at you fitting into a 33! You're sooo trim. Don't you want to keep shopping with us because we make you feel good about your size?"
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I'd say that my clothes do seem to be significantly more durable than my wife's.
On the fit side of things, I like to say that men's clothes are designed by women that hate men... I swear, nobody can even get the basics of men's clothes right. Pockets that are angled so all your stuff falls out when you sit down. Pockets that are too small for hands, etc. The sizes are so ridiculously inconsistent. I have 36 waist jeans I can't squeeze in to, but also have 33s that are fine. My shirt size is a M, L, or XL depending on the individual shirt (even brands aren't consistent).
That just sounds like men's clothing are starting to have some of the downsides women's clothing have had decades. You know, "but if you fill up a large pocket, it'll mess up the line! Carry a bag instead" and "look at you fitting into a 33! You're sooo trim. Don't you want to keep shopping with us because we make you feel good about your size?"
Woot! Equality! </sarcasm> Seriously, though, women have been battling this for decades. It sucks that men have to deal with it as well now. Especially as, theoretically, your clothes are measured in actual inches (e.g. 36"/32" trousers) rather than made up numbers (8 or 10) which you would think would have a basis in the reality of those actual inches.
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Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
You FIND them, and I'll buy them. Men's clothes don't fit me. If they fit in the chest, the sleeves fall to my knees.
Now LL Bean, REI and my normal go-to places have started making paper thin shirts for women. I can't find thick cotton shirts.
I'd rather have only 5 pieces of clothes in my closet that are well made, not 50 that are so-called trendy but crappy made.
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Clothing is being made in a much cheaper manner across the board, but I see so much womens' stuff that is made out of synthetic fibers that just falls apart. Men's clothing just isn't made out of this material as often because the same variety isn't demanded as much. We as consumers have been demanding an insane volume of clothing so the suppliers make it cheaper and more often. It is insane that we expect a shirt to cost $15. There's no way this happens without many people sacrificing a decent living wage along the way. I think buying cheap clothes is bad for our budgets and bad for the people that make the clothing and bad for the environment. It is bad across the board!
I pretty much guarantee that if you go to most stores in a mall, you're going to find crap. Look at nicer department stores when they have sales/clearances. Look for clothing that is made in the US! Shop consignment stores. Look at the tag on the inside seam to figure out where the garment was made and what it is made out of. If you can find clothing from countries that have decent labor laws and that are made out of natural or recycled fibers, you're on the right track. Look at stitching, seam allowances, and quality of buttons and zippers.
I spend at least 20-30 bucks on an item of clothing, even secondhand. I think that anything cheaper is actually non-mustachian!
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May not be everyone's cup of tea, but I would recommend checking out stores geared towards agriculture. Around here those would be Murdock's, Quality Supply, etc. There are well made women's clothes at those stores, as they are intended to be used roughly. Now there is quite a bit of cheaper, sequin-y stuff too, but most of the work clothes are well built. Of course, you'll have to be ok with looking a bit like a rancher...
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On a side note: I'm so frustrated with crappy made clothes, and overpriced cloth at the fabric store, I decided to go to the thrift store to look for the biggest clothing item I could cut up for cloth. I found new this huge dress with really thick cotton for for $1. When I got it home I looked at the label and it said Laura Ashley, Made in England. I've seen that brand before in stores and dresses can easily run $100.
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L.L. bean still has thick cotton shirts, but they also sell the thinner shirts now too, which is disappointing.
I tend to buy clothes from Eddie Bauer, L. L. Bean and a few Old Navy things.
I agree that women's clothes suck when it comes to pockets. It's ridiculous.
P.S. If you want your clothes to last longer, don't wash them as often. I promise you, as long as you wear deodorant, you won't stink if you wash your shirts and pants every third time you wear them.
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I'm only basing my guesses on my own experience. Also, for what it's worth, I am a man, although I frequently join my wife for shopping trips when they happen. I tend to shop mostly at Macy's, LL Bean and Jos. A Bank. I find that LL Bean has high quality stuff for men and women. Most Macy's clothes for men are good, and there are good clothes for women in amongst the racks and racks of junk. Jos. A Bank is obviously a different situation. I do agree about price, especially for jeans. My wife will easily spend $75 for a pair of jeans that are inferior to my $30 pair.
why are you going to stores... if you NEED something put an alert for it on slickdeals.net. wait for a good price have it shipped to your door. Yes you cant try it on but guess what you can order multiple sizes of differnt items and MOST stores let you return it to store for full refund. been shopping this way for years. only time i go to a store is to return what didnt fit.
ALSO FYI - if Kohl's has a sale you can buy all the clearance crap you want. then take it to the store and as long as the non clearanced crap price matches an article you want to buy you can do an even exchange. super easy but the retail prices must be identical.
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Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
You FIND them, and I'll buy them. Men's clothes don't fit me my style.
FTFY.
They do fit you, you just don't like the "sleeves to knees" style. :)
Could it be that men's clothes are more rugged and cheaper because they can produce a lot more of the same and no one cares? Conversely (mustachian women aside), women's clothing lines tend to be shorter, smaller runs of product due to fashion changes, and tend to encompass a wider variety of colors and styles.
YES!
There is no conspiracy against women clothing.
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If you want your clothes to last longer, don't wash them as often. I promise you, as long as you wear deodorant, you won't stink if you wash your shirts and pants every third time you wear them.
My experience has been that drying stuff is much harder on it than anything else. My clothing longevity improved significantly after we stopped using the dryer.
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On my days off work, only the dogs/horse/burros/chickens/ducks see me.
They appear to have no aversion to me wearing Carhartts.
Which is good, as they wear like iron: I doubt I'll have to buy many more in my lifetime.
Agree with whomever posted that the 'expectation' with women's clothing is that you'll throw it out (!!!!) next year when it goes out of style.
As if!
I wear Carhartts, too. All the women's pants I have purchased from them wear out within a calendar year. It's not just thinning fabric, either--we're talking fraying seams and holes. I'm on my feet a lot at work but what I do still qualifies as an "office job."
And I never use clothes dryers.
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Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
You FIND them, and I'll buy them. Men's clothes don't fit me my style.
FTFY.
They do fit you, you just don't like the "sleeves to knees" style. :)
If you can't pull up the pair of pants that matches your waist size over your butt & hips, I'd very much call that "not fitting." I mean, it's indecent not to pull your pants up!
For The_path_less_taken and Inkedup:
My husband tried buying Carhartts instead of Dickies a couple years ago. They're narrower in the leg and hips/butt, so they were restricting, and the fabric also wore out at the seams--dead in a year.
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Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
You FIND them, and I'll buy them. Men's clothes don't fit me my style.
FTFY.
They do fit you, you just don't like the "sleeves to knees" style. :)
If you can't pull up the pair of pants that matches your waist size over your butt & hips, I'd very much call that "not fitting." I mean, it's indecent not to pull your pants up!
Welcome to the world of cyclists. Upsize and get a belt.
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Upsize and get a belt.
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding something here. Men's pants sometimes fit to a certain extent, but they are just *not* designed for women with substantial hips or butts. Which happens in women. Frequently. It's part of or frankly small sexual dimorphism from men.
What you are, in practice rather than theory, suggesting is wearing elephant pants that need 6 inches hemmed off and a belt with folds of extra fabric trapped under it because hip and waist inches are often quite, quite different.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but you really just don't seem to understand that.
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Upsize and get a belt.
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding something here. Men's pants sometimes fit to a certain extent, but they are just *not* designed for women with substantial hips or butts. Which happens in women. Frequently. It's part of or frankly small sexual dimorphism from men.
What you are, in practice rather than theory, suggesting is wearing elephant pants that need 6 inches hemmed off and a belt with folds of extra fabric trapped under it because hip and waist inches are often quite, quite different.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but you really just don't seem to understand that.
Agreed. I have found that it is easier to make my own trousers from scratch (simple design, side zip (no fly) and two LARGE side pockets in the seam, none at the back) than to buy a pair of men's trousers that fit at the hips and alter them to fit at the waist. There is about eight inches of fabric to remove, and once you get into that level of alteration you just run out of space between all the pockets. I can't just wear a belt because the waist is EIGHT TO TEN INCHES too big and I would end up spending the whole day adjusting them, pulling them up and fiddling with the extra fabric to make it comfortable.
I have bought XXL men's clothes in charity shops for the fabric, though. You do end up remaking it from scratch but it's actually hard to find a quality, thick, plain cotton fabric in the shops. You really have to search!
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Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
You FIND them, and I'll buy them. Men's clothes don't fit me my style.
FTFY.
They do fit you, you just don't like the "sleeves to knees" style. :)
If you can't pull up the pair of pants that matches your waist size over your butt & hips, I'd very much call that "not fitting." I mean, it's indecent not to pull your pants up!
Welcome to the world of cyclists. Upsize and get a belt.
As a woman who struggles to fit into the woman's pants designed for curves because the ones I can squeeze my ass into have enough slack around the waist that I could probably do a fairly good kangaroo impression, men's pants are an impossibility. Apparently, would you believe, men don't have childbearing hips and it also seems that they are cut with the expectation of a flat ass. A men's pant with the correct waist dimension would be lucky to get much higher than mid thigh (with the zip down). Whereas something that will fit over my ass is shaped like an upside-down triangle and no belt in the world is going to help and the alterations far exceed my skill set.
So no. Men's pants not an option. Never going to fit. They either won't go on all the way... or would immediately fall off. Is it too much to ask for same priced same quality pants?
It's bullshit. And trying to call it anything else and pretending it's not a problem with the many comments to the effect of well just buy the horrendously expensive quality(ish) women's clothes or 'suck it up' just wear men's. Your not solving the problem, just scooting around pretending it isn't the big issue that it really is.
Rant over
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L.L. bean still has thick cotton shirts, but they also sell the thinner shirts now too, which is disappointing.
I tend to buy clothes from Eddie Bauer, L. L. Bean and a few Old Navy things.
I agree that women's clothes suck when it comes to pockets. It's ridiculous.
P.S. If you want your clothes to last longer, don't wash them as often. I promise you, as long as you wear deodorant, you won't stink if you wash your shirts and pants every third time you wear them.
Umm, I like those thinner LL Bean shirts. I'm wearing one right now. It's very nice.
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Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
You FIND them, and I'll buy them. Men's clothes don't fit me my style.
FTFY.
They do fit you, you just don't like the "sleeves to knees" style. :)
If you can't pull up the pair of pants that matches your waist size over your butt & hips, I'd very much call that "not fitting." I mean, it's indecent not to pull your pants up!
Welcome to the world of cyclists. Upsize and get a belt.
As a woman who struggles to fit into the woman's pants designed for curves because the ones I can squeeze my ass into have enough slack around the waist that I could probably do a fairly good kangaroo impression, men's pants are an impossibility. Apparently, would you believe, men don't have childbearing hips and it also seems that they are cut with the expectation of a flat ass. A men's pant with the correct waist dimension would be lucky to get much higher than mid thigh (with the zip down). Whereas something that will fit over my ass is shaped like an upside-down triangle and no belt in the world is going to help and the alterations far exceed my skill set.
So no. Men's pants not an option. Never going to fit. They either won't go on all the way... or would immediately fall off. Is it too much to ask for same priced same quality pants?
It's bullshit. And trying to call it anything else and pretending it's not a problem with the many comments to the effect of well just buy the horrendously expensive quality(ish) women's clothes or 'suck it up' just wear men's. Your not solving the problem, just scooting around pretending it isn't the big issue that it really is.
Rant over
You literally just described a pair of pants that's harder to manufacture. So the pants you wear are not str8 and have curves. And you think that it should cost the same why ?
Not saying this applies to all women's clothing but the pants you just described take more design and manufacturing time.
This is like an I want to be paid the same argument. When the national numbers quoted there include women who maybe took a few years off for their kids.
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Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
You FIND them, and I'll buy them. Men's clothes don't fit me my style.
FTFY.
They do fit you, you just don't like the "sleeves to knees" style. :)
If you can't pull up the pair of pants that matches your waist size over your butt & hips, I'd very much call that "not fitting." I mean, it's indecent not to pull your pants up!
Welcome to the world of cyclists. Upsize and get a belt.
As a woman who struggles to fit into the woman's pants designed for curves because the ones I can squeeze my ass into have enough slack around the waist that I could probably do a fairly good kangaroo impression, men's pants are an impossibility. Apparently, would you believe, men don't have childbearing hips and it also seems that they are cut with the expectation of a flat ass. A men's pant with the correct waist dimension would be lucky to get much higher than mid thigh (with the zip down). Whereas something that will fit over my ass is shaped like an upside-down triangle and no belt in the world is going to help and the alterations far exceed my skill set.
So no. Men's pants not an option. Never going to fit. They either won't go on all the way... or would immediately fall off. Is it too much to ask for same priced same quality pants?
It's bullshit. And trying to call it anything else and pretending it's not a problem with the many comments to the effect of well just buy the horrendously expensive quality(ish) women's clothes or 'suck it up' just wear men's. Your not solving the problem, just scooting around pretending it isn't the big issue that it really is.
Rant over
You literally just described a pair of pants that's harder to manufacture. So the pants you wear are not str8 and have curves. And you think that it should cost the same why ?
Not saying this applies to all women's clothing but the pants you just described take more design and manufacturing time.
This is like an I want to be paid the same argument. When the national numbers quoted there include women who maybe took a few years off for their kids.
Oh, now you've gone and done it. *fetches popcorn*
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This whole thing is just honestly confusing to me. Is Canada just totally different than the US in this regard? I bought a pair of dress pants for work for $33 last month to replace a pair that is over three years old, and the only reason I had to replace it at all was because I lost a significant amount of weight and it was a design that couldn't accommodate that. The pants I'm wearing right now are also three years old and in perfect shape still. The shirt I'm wearing right now is over seven years old and not showing any signs of wear. I can think of at least four or five stores off the top of my head that have local stores where I could easily find quality replacements for anything.
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Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
You FIND them, and I'll buy them. Men's clothes don't fit me my style.
FTFY.
They do fit you, you just don't like the "sleeves to knees" style. :)
If you can't pull up the pair of pants that matches your waist size over your butt & hips, I'd very much call that "not fitting." I mean, it's indecent not to pull your pants up!
Welcome to the world of cyclists. Upsize and get a belt.
As a woman who struggles to fit into the woman's pants designed for curves because the ones I can squeeze my ass into have enough slack around the waist that I could probably do a fairly good kangaroo impression, men's pants are an impossibility. Apparently, would you believe, men don't have childbearing hips and it also seems that they are cut with the expectation of a flat ass. A men's pant with the correct waist dimension would be lucky to get much higher than mid thigh (with the zip down). Whereas something that will fit over my ass is shaped like an upside-down triangle and no belt in the world is going to help and the alterations far exceed my skill set.
So no. Men's pants not an option. Never going to fit. They either won't go on all the way... or would immediately fall off. Is it too much to ask for same priced same quality pants?
It's bullshit. And trying to call it anything else and pretending it's not a problem with the many comments to the effect of well just buy the horrendously expensive quality(ish) women's clothes or 'suck it up' just wear men's. Your not solving the problem, just scooting around pretending it isn't the big issue that it really is.
Rant over
You literally just described a pair of pants that's harder to manufacture. So the pants you wear are not str8 and have curves. And you think that it should cost the same why ?
Not saying this applies to all women's clothing but the pants you just described take more design and manufacturing time.
This is like an I want to be paid the same argument. When the national numbers quoted there include women who maybe took a few years off for their kids.
Oh, now you've gone and done it. *fetches popcorn*
Are peanuts ok? I'm on a low carb diet
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Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
You FIND them, and I'll buy them. Men's clothes don't fit me my style.
FTFY.
They do fit you, you just don't like the "sleeves to knees" style. :)
If you can't pull up the pair of pants that matches your waist size over your butt & hips, I'd very much call that "not fitting." I mean, it's indecent not to pull your pants up!
Welcome to the world of cyclists. Upsize and get a belt.
As a woman who struggles to fit into the woman's pants designed for curves because the ones I can squeeze my ass into have enough slack around the waist that I could probably do a fairly good kangaroo impression, men's pants are an impossibility. Apparently, would you believe, men don't have childbearing hips and it also seems that they are cut with the expectation of a flat ass. A men's pant with the correct waist dimension would be lucky to get much higher than mid thigh (with the zip down). Whereas something that will fit over my ass is shaped like an upside-down triangle and no belt in the world is going to help and the alterations far exceed my skill set.
So no. Men's pants not an option. Never going to fit. They either won't go on all the way... or would immediately fall off. Is it too much to ask for same priced same quality pants?
It's bullshit. And trying to call it anything else and pretending it's not a problem with the many comments to the effect of well just buy the horrendously expensive quality(ish) women's clothes or 'suck it up' just wear men's. Your not solving the problem, just scooting around pretending it isn't the big issue that it really is.
Rant over
You literally just described a pair of pants that's harder to manufacture. So the pants you wear are not str8 and have curves. And you think that it should cost the same why ?
Not saying this applies to all women's clothing but the pants you just described take more design and manufacturing time.
This is like an I want to be paid the same argument. When the national numbers quoted there include women who maybe took a few years off for their kids.
Oh, now you've gone and done it. *fetches popcorn*
Are peanuts ok? I'm on a low carb diet
I'll allow it.
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Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
You FIND them, and I'll buy them. Men's clothes don't fit me my style.
FTFY.
They do fit you, you just don't like the "sleeves to knees" style. :)
If you can't pull up the pair of pants that matches your waist size over your butt & hips, I'd very much call that "not fitting." I mean, it's indecent not to pull your pants up!
Welcome to the world of cyclists. Upsize and get a belt.
As a woman who struggles to fit into the woman's pants designed for curves because the ones I can squeeze my ass into have enough slack around the waist that I could probably do a fairly good kangaroo impression, men's pants are an impossibility. Apparently, would you believe, men don't have childbearing hips and it also seems that they are cut with the expectation of a flat ass. A men's pant with the correct waist dimension would be lucky to get much higher than mid thigh (with the zip down). Whereas something that will fit over my ass is shaped like an upside-down triangle and no belt in the world is going to help and the alterations far exceed my skill set.
So no. Men's pants not an option. Never going to fit. They either won't go on all the way... or would immediately fall off. Is it too much to ask for same priced same quality pants?
It's bullshit. And trying to call it anything else and pretending it's not a problem with the many comments to the effect of well just buy the horrendously expensive quality(ish) women's clothes or 'suck it up' just wear men's. Your not solving the problem, just scooting around pretending it isn't the big issue that it really is.
Rant over
You literally just described a pair of pants that's harder to manufacture. So the pants you wear are not str8 and have curves. And you think that it should cost the same why ?
Not saying this applies to all women's clothing but the pants you just described take more design and manufacturing time.
This is like an I want to be paid the same argument. When the national numbers quoted there include women who maybe took a few years off for their kids.
Fair enough. I definitely agree that straight up men's pants are simpler (it's even within the bounds of my sewing prowess! ) so maybe the cost difference is fair.
Still pisses me off the difference in quality and durability. Or maybe they only bother to import the crap stuff to NZ :(
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Even if everything was equal in quality etc your clothes would still COST more. WHY you may ask. Bc this is America and its capitalism. If you walk into a store and it has men's and women's clothing which section is bigger. The women's WHY bc you shop more than men and buy more clothes.
I'm not saying the women on here do.
If I'm a clothing manufacturer and I know you're gonna buy crap I put out in higher volume and lower quality for the same price. I'm going to manufacture cheap shit and charge you Barney's prices.
Cut the demand for cheap overpriced clothing you're complaining about and the supply will decrease bc that's how economics work.
Again not saying the women on this counter culture blog fit the stereo type. But guess what stereo types exist for a reason and its not bc there is just some dude in a corner typing up new ones every day like
"all Peruvians can shoot lazer beams out of their eyes"
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This whole thing is just honestly confusing to me. Is Canada just totally different than the US in this regard? I bought a pair of dress pants for work for $33 last month to replace a pair that is over three years old, and the only reason I had to replace it at all was because I lost a significant amount of weight and it was a design that couldn't accommodate that. The pants I'm wearing right now are also three years old and in perfect shape still. The shirt I'm wearing right now is over seven years old and not showing any signs of wear. I can think of at least four or five stores off the top of my head that have local stores where I could easily find quality replacements for anything.
I've discarded more clothes due to either size changes or changes in style/taste than true wear and tear. The last clothing items in my house to really start wearing out:
1. A hand me down baby sleeper that ripped on the seam. Fabric was too fragile to sew back up and it was free anyway, so forget it.
2. My husband's shoes. He's got an exotic shoe size, the only shoe that works is poor quality, and he just wears through multiple pairs a year.
3. My husband's winter coat is wearing out at the lower back from the fricton of his backpack, but I think we'll get a couple more years out of it.
4. My husband's Lands End pants that sprang holes. I just switched him to Duluth Trading pants.
5. Pantyhose, but I don't think you can expect fragile gauze hosiery to last under any circumstances.
6. My bras. Eventually the elastic wears and they lack the ability to hold things up properly.
The only clothes I can remember really killing dead before that were a couple Talbots cashmere cardigans, but shitty Chinese cashmere is shitty Chinese cashmere and it wears out on my husband too, which is part of why I no longer buy it. When I wore pants, I could wear through the inner thighs on a pair of jeans in a year, but my thighs rubbed together, which I think is less common in men anyway. But I never owned more than one pair of jeans at a go and I was wearing them 3+ times a week.
Higher quality clothing tends to feel nicer (ime Gap t-shirts tend to be softer than Old Navy, for instance), but really cheap stuff can last a surprisingly long time. I still am wearing Old Navy flannel PJ pants from high school and I graduated a decade ago.
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Umm, I like those thinner LL Bean shirts. I'm wearing one right now. It's very nice.
I bought several llbean long sleeve Tshirts 25 years ago that are just now wearing out. They were very thick (so I did not have to wear a bra). Now the thin ones don't last at all. (And there is *not* an option of not wearing bra. Might as well be naked.) I'd rather pay 4x as much for another 25 year LLBean shirt from the old days. I think clothes should be made to last for decades. Mine used to.
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6. My bras. Eventually the elastic wears and they lack the ability to hold things up properly.
I blew $100 on a fancy local boutique bra place last year and have 0 regrets. Might be worth it? I wear that thing if not daily, then every other day, and it's going strong after some hard use for the last 1.5 years. The straps are thick and clearly designed to last, and I've had no underwire pop-outs or tears in any of the fabric. Even the elastic hasn't stretched that badly (and I can just tighten for awhile as it does).
I'm a 32DD, and support is... important. Nice undergarments that actually do what they're meant to and aren't made out of spider webs and hope is totally worth it imo.
Place I went to is local, but tiny little lingerie shops where they get you propperly fitted exist all over. Highly recommend.
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Umm, I like those thinner LL Bean shirts. I'm wearing one right now. It's very nice.
I bought several llbean long sleeve Tshirts 25 years ago that are just now wearing out. They were very thick (so I did not have to wear a bra). Now the thin ones don't last at all. (And there is *not* an option of not wearing bra. Might as well be naked.) I'd rather pay 4x as much for another 25 year LLBean shirt from the old days. I think clothes should be made to last for decades. Mine used to.
I remember Bean turtlenecks from my childhood (so, 20 years ago, not 25). Never liked them. The cotton was too thick and stood way from the body and was rather stuff, but I would not be surprised if they lasted decades had they not been outgrown. But judging by the prevalence of thinner garments, a lot of people either like them, or like the fact that they're cheaper since they use less material.
Clothing used to be much more expensive in real terms. I was looking at a Sears catalog from the fifties, and dresses for teenaged girls (so, not a demographic that's going to fit the garment for decades) ran $150-200 in today's dollars, and Sears was not a high end store. Relatively few people today have the ability or willingness to pay for BIFL quality in clothing, and it's unsurprising that relatively few manufacturers want to serve the demographic.
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6. My bras. Eventually the elastic wears and they lack the ability to hold things up properly.
I blew $100 on a fancy local boutique bra place last year and have 0 regrets. Might be worth it? I wear that thing if not daily, then every other day, and it's going strong after some hard use for the last 1.5 years. The straps are thick and clearly designed to last, and I've had no underwire pop-outs or tears in any of the fabric. Even the elastic hasn't stretched that badly (and I can just tighten for awhile as it does).
I'm a 32DD, and support is... important. Nice undergarments that actually do what they're meant to and aren't made out of spider webs and hope is totally worth it imo.
Place I went to is local, but tiny little lingerie shops where they get you propperly fitted exist all over. Highly recommend.
I have one of those fancy bras for special occasions and it's great, but day to day I wear pullover merino bralettes and I like those.
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As someone who has made all her own clothes for many years, and has studied Fashion Design at a Tertiary Institution, I know men's clothes are just as difficult to sew as women's clothes if you are comparing like with like. Each has their problem areas.
I was a bit of an anomaly at the Fashion Design course, far older than them, and really not interested in the fashion industry (I was accepted as a mature age student when I retired), but I got a lot out of it. Some of the clothes I am still wearing were made more than twenty years ago, but these are all things that were hand made (either from craft shops or that I made myself) - except for the twenty-seven year old socks that I am still wearing.
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As someone who has made all her own clothes for many years, and has studied Fashion Design at a Tertiary Institution, I know men's clothes are just as difficult to sew as women's clothes if you are comparing like with like. Each has their problem areas.
I was a bit of an anomaly at the Fashion Design course, far older than them, and really not interested in the fashion industry (I was accepted as a mature age student when I retired), but I got a lot out of it. Some of the clothes I am still wearing were made more than twenty years ago, but these are all things that were hand made (either from craft shops or that I made myself) - except for the twenty-seven year old socks that I am still wearing.
That's awesome! And some really useful insight. :)
Now you're making me want to check out and see if the tech college around here has any sewing/design classes. I'd love to learn to alter my own things or make fun and weird shit that no one would sell but that I desperately want...
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Upsize and get a belt.
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding something here. Men's pants sometimes fit to a certain extent, but they are just *not* designed for women with substantial hips or butts. Which happens in women. Frequently. It's part of or frankly small sexual dimorphism from men.
What you are, in practice rather than theory, suggesting is wearing elephant pants that need 6 inches hemmed off and a belt with folds of extra fabric trapped under it because hip and waist inches are often quite, quite different.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but you really just don't seem to understand that.
I have a gigantic ass and tiny waist. Usually pants off the rack are about three or four inches too wide in the waist to be big enough to fit by ass. Should I be buying women's pants?
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Upsize and get a belt.
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding something here. Men's pants sometimes fit to a certain extent, but they are just *not* designed for women with substantial hips or butts. Which happens in women. Frequently. It's part of or frankly small sexual dimorphism from men.
What you are, in practice rather than theory, suggesting is wearing elephant pants that need 6 inches hemmed off and a belt with folds of extra fabric trapped under it because hip and waist inches are often quite, quite different.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but you really just don't seem to understand that.
I have a gigantic ass and tiny waist. Usually pants off the rack are about three or four inches too wide in the waist to be big enough to fit by ass. Should I be buying women's pants?
Sure! Try some on! Women try on men's clothes all the time, and sometimes have success; I don't see any reason the reverse can't be true. If you don't want traditionally 'feminine' looking pants but that are still made for women, the general places people have already mentioned would be a good place to start (LLBean, etc.) that sell 'basic' clothes that are sometimes stylistically similar between ladies and fellas.
If you are very tall, I think you might have problems, but it doesn't hurt to give it a go. :)
Thing to watch out for: lack of pockets.
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Just stop buying expensive cheaply made clothes! You like the durability of men clothes? BUY THEM and WEAR THEM. This is the only way to break the stereotypes and so called "pink tax".
You FIND them, and I'll buy them. Men's clothes don't fit me my style.
FTFY.
They do fit you, you just don't like the "sleeves to knees" style. :)
If you can't pull up the pair of pants that matches your waist size over your butt & hips, I'd very much call that "not fitting." I mean, it's indecent not to pull your pants up!
Welcome to the world of cyclists. Upsize and get a belt.
As a woman who struggles to fit into the woman's pants designed for curves because the ones I can squeeze my ass into have enough slack around the waist that I could probably do a fairly good kangaroo impression, men's pants are an impossibility. Apparently, would you believe, men don't have childbearing hips and it also seems that they are cut with the expectation of a flat ass. A men's pant with the correct waist dimension would be lucky to get much higher than mid thigh (with the zip down). Whereas something that will fit over my ass is shaped like an upside-down triangle and no belt in the world is going to help and the alterations far exceed my skill set.
So no. Men's pants not an option. Never going to fit. They either won't go on all the way... or would immediately fall off. Is it too much to ask for same priced same quality pants?
It's bullshit. And trying to call it anything else and pretending it's not a problem with the many comments to the effect of well just buy the horrendously expensive quality(ish) women's clothes or 'suck it up' just wear men's. Your not solving the problem, just scooting around pretending it isn't the big issue that it really is.
Rant over
I'm skirts-only at this point, but I remember thinking the real solution to waist:hip ratios is to have more than one fly. Broadfall pants would be perfect for women's hips, because they can open way wider than single-fly pants. Alternatively, hakama. And today I found out there's a Japanese company making "chinobakama" or pants that are hakama at the waist and chinos (khakis) from the knee down.
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I was a teenager during the 90s when baggy jeans were in. Hakamas don't even look baggy to me. :P
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I forgot to rant about the complete lack of high-visibility safety clothes for women. For the last two years, I couldn't find that hi-vis green color in women's clothes for biking. I have a lot of bike shirts for 14 year old boys. :(
This year, finally it exists. But I still can't get things like the craftsman hi-vis sweatshirt with reflector stripes. They don't make it for women, and they don't make a men's small. http://www.sears.com/craftsman-reflective-sweatshirt/p-041M0501000P
Carhartt only makes them for giants: http://www.supercasuals.com/Carhartt/Carhartt_100503.cfm
There's an online retailer I found, but I don't want to spend 50 bucks on something without trying it on. In the meantime, I have a crappy little $3 one size fits all vest that's like a cross between a bib and a sandwich board to throw over my black winter jacket for biking at night, but because there's no front zipper it's a pain when I need to zip/unzip my coat below it as I alternate between freezing and overheating on my rides.
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I forgot to rant about the complete lack of high-visibility safety clothes for women. For the last two years, I couldn't find that hi-vis green color in women's clothes for biking. I have a lot of bike shirts for 14 year old boys. :(
This year, finally it exists. But I still can't get things like the craftsman hi-vis sweatshirt with reflector stripes. They don't make it for women, and they don't make a men's small. http://www.sears.com/craftsman-reflective-sweatshirt/p-041M0501000P
Carhartt only makes them for giants: http://www.supercasuals.com/Carhartt/Carhartt_100503.cfm
There's an online retailer I found, but I don't want to spend 50 bucks on something without trying it on. In the meantime, I have a crappy little $3 one size fits all vest that's like a cross between a bib and a sandwich board to throw over my black winter jacket for biking at night, but because there's no front zipper it's a pain when I need to zip/unzip my coat below it as I alternate between freezing and overheating on my rides.
I work for a construction company; we go through a shit ton of hi-vis. I'll check out which store we use as a company-sponsored clothier (I know it's not Sears but can't remember off the top of my head) and let you know if they have decent women's options for the hi-vis hoodies!
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OMG YES POCKETS.
How hard would it be to put pockets in dresses? Come on designers, you can do it!
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As someone who has made all her own clothes for many years, and has studied Fashion Design at a Tertiary Institution, I know men's clothes are just as difficult to sew as women's clothes if you are comparing like with like. Each has their problem areas.
I was a bit of an anomaly at the Fashion Design course, far older than them, and really not interested in the fashion industry (I was accepted as a mature age student when I retired), but I got a lot out of it. Some of the clothes I am still wearing were made more than twenty years ago, but these are all things that were hand made (either from craft shops or that I made myself) - except for the twenty-seven year old socks that I am still wearing.
I was going to post this too. Talking specifically about trousers, I think they are equally hard to make I you're trying to make what one can buy in a shop (I.e. Not my custom simplified design). Men's trousers have way more "fixtures and fittings" (POCKETS!!!) and I find the crotch/fly harder to get right. However, the curve of the hips and waist darts are slightly harder for women. I disagree that there would be any difference in manufacturing time if you made a women's version of men's chinos (possibly ten seconds on a factory line to put in longer darts but as you're paying your workers peanuts, ten seconds is only a tiny fraction of a peanut), and there would possibly be a slight increase in design time initially as the designers worked out how to cut for women. Nothing earth- or price-shattering.
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OMG YES POCKETS.
How hard would it be to put pockets in dresses? Come on designers, you can do it!
The few times I buy clothing in a real shop, I have started trying things on and then giving them to the shop assistant in the fitting rooms saying "They're quite nice but they don't have any pockets" in the hope that one day the message will get through. If I do actually like something I consider whether I could put pockets in it. Dresses/skirts, I guess so. Trousers too hard.
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I think men's clothes are defnitely of a higher quality than women's clothing. My husband has tops from 20 years ago that admittedly are faded from washing, but they are still wearable.
I used to buy the more fancy embroidered white men's dress shirts from charity shops and wear them with jeans as a teenager.:D
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I think men's clothes are defnitely of a higher quality than women's clothing. My husband has tops from 20 years ago that admittedly are faded from washing, but they are still wearable.
I used to buy the more fancy embroidered white men's dress shirts from charity shops and wear them with jeans as a teenager.:D
Hell, I have a Tshirt from 1982 that I wear semi-regularly. Admittedly in very...marginal... condition, but it was free (secondhand) about 1990. I only know the date because it's an event shirt with the date printed on it ;)
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I have boys jeans from before my pregnancy (about five years old) that are in better condition than women's jeans that I bought this year. Both new but the boy's jeans were $15 and the women's $40. I'd be fine paying more for the extra work of women's pants if they lasted as long as men's.
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Upsize and get a belt.
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding something here. Men's pants sometimes fit to a certain extent, but they are just *not* designed for women with substantial hips or butts. Which happens in women. Frequently. It's part of or frankly small sexual dimorphism from men.
What you are, in practice rather than theory, suggesting is wearing elephant pants that need 6 inches hemmed off and a belt with folds of extra fabric trapped under it because hip and waist inches are often quite, quite different.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but you really just don't seem to understand that.
Ok, I think I get it now. You don't like the style of men pants on you.
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Upsize and get a belt.
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding something here. Men's pants sometimes fit to a certain extent, but they are just *not* designed for women with substantial hips or butts. Which happens in women. Frequently. It's part of or frankly small sexual dimorphism from men.
What you are, in practice rather than theory, suggesting is wearing elephant pants that need 6 inches hemmed off and a belt with folds of extra fabric trapped under it because hip and waist inches are often quite, quite different.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but you really just don't seem to understand that.
Ok, I think I get it now. You don't like the style of men pants on you.
No, I don't like that I can have pants that fit properly and last. How about you put on a pair of pants from the women's department and see how it fits you?
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I think men's clothes are defnitely of a higher quality than women's clothing. My husband has tops from 20 years ago that admittedly are faded from washing, but they are still wearable.
I used to buy the more fancy embroidered white men's dress shirts from charity shops and wear them with jeans as a teenager.:D
Hell, I have a Tshirt from 1982 that I wear semi-regularly. Admittedly in very...marginal... condition, but it was free (secondhand) about 1990. I only know the date because it's an event shirt with the date printed on it ;)
Haha, nothing wrong with that.:)
I was inspired to buy some men's clothes today after reading this. I was buying a Christmas present and thought I would buy myself some men's pyjama shorts as the ones I had acquired holes in the crotch! Hopefully these will last longer.
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Upsize and get a belt.
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding something here. Men's pants sometimes fit to a certain extent, but they are just *not* designed for women with substantial hips or butts. Which happens in women. Frequently. It's part of or frankly small sexual dimorphism from men.
What you are, in practice rather than theory, suggesting is wearing elephant pants that need 6 inches hemmed off and a belt with folds of extra fabric trapped under it because hip and waist inches are often quite, quite different.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but you really just don't seem to understand that.
Ok, I think I get it now. You don't like the style of men pants on you.
No, I don't like that I can have pants that fit properly and last. How about you put on a pair of pants from the women's department and see how it fits you?
Does a tiny mouse fit in a human sized doorway? Yes, it does.
Is the doorway style appropriate for the mouse? No, it is way too big ( unless the mouse is really into "jack and the beanstalk" style).
....
Before this goes much further, let me just say that I was being facetious since the beginning as indicated by the smiley faces. I find the "persecution" mindset pretty funny given that most clothes are designed by women and for women. This is capitalism, the market offers what the consumers want. Stop buying crappy clothes and they will cease to be economically viable.... Or wear men's clothes :D
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The "persecution" mindset?
Dude, we're just explaining why some things don't work and why some things suck (and why some of your 'alternatives' are not always viable) and you're being a little belligerent about it. That is not "crying persecution" in any sense of the word. o_O; You have some fair points (it IS a capitalist system and our dollars ARE capitalism points) and I'm not undervaluing that. But what you are doing is being dismissive.
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I think men's clothes are defnitely of a higher quality than women's clothing. My husband has tops from 20 years ago that admittedly are faded from washing, but they are still wearable.
I used to buy the more fancy embroidered white men's dress shirts from charity shops and wear them with jeans as a teenager.:D
Hell, I have a Tshirt from 1982 that I wear semi-regularly. Admittedly in very...marginal... condition, but it was free (secondhand) about 1990. I only know the date because it's an event shirt with the date printed on it ;)
I have a shirt from my dad that he bought when he was in college. It's been worn thin from so many washings and there's a small hole by my right shoulder blade, but it's otherwise holding up just fine. It's actually the softest, most comfy shirt I have. I'd guess it's around 32-33 years old.
Haha, nothing wrong with that.:)
I was inspired to buy some men's clothes today after reading this. I was buying a Christmas present and thought I would buy myself some men's pyjama shorts as the ones I had acquired holes in the crotch! Hopefully these will last longer.
My lady friend occasionally wears men's boxers to bed, so technically a lot of her pants have holes in the crotch.
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I think men's clothes are defnitely of a higher quality than women's clothing. My husband has tops from 20 years ago that admittedly are faded from washing, but they are still wearable.
I used to buy the more fancy embroidered white men's dress shirts from charity shops and wear them with jeans as a teenager.:D
Hell, I have a Tshirt from 1982 that I wear semi-regularly. Admittedly in very...marginal... condition, but it was free (secondhand) about 1990. I only know the date because it's an event shirt with the date printed on it ;)
I have a shirt from my dad that he bought when he was in college. It's been worn thin from so many washings and there's a small hole by my right shoulder blade, but it's otherwise holding up just fine. It's actually the softest, most comfy shirt I have. I'd guess it's around 32-33 years old.
Haha, nothing wrong with that.:)
I was inspired to buy some men's clothes today after reading this. I was buying a Christmas present and thought I would buy myself some men's pyjama shorts as the ones I had acquired holes in the crotch! Hopefully these will last longer.
My lady friend occasionally wears men's boxers to bed, so technically a lot of her pants have holes in the crotch.
sounds like a win for you.
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I pretty much live in this dress. I have three, thinking about getting another if a good print goes on clearance. Not really exciting, as they are from lands end, or as I call it 'Forever 42'
http://www.landsend.com/products/womens-sleeveless-ponte-sheath-dress/id_289890?sku_0=::CQR
Thick, quality fabric. Even if it is a synthetic, they haven't pilled in two years of wear, which usually more my problem than wearing through. I kind of prefer the synthetic for my desk job as I don't get lap wrinkles in these, like I do in a cotton skirt/dress. I know dresses aren't for everyone and some have active jobs where they can't wear them. But for me, these dresses solved most of my work wardrobe problems. And they are stretchy enough to ride a bike in. Dressy enough for all but a suit required workplace. But don't look bad if I wear leggings and ankle boots instead of high heels and pantyhose. My holy grail dress.
Oh, yeah. They have pockets