Author Topic: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?  (Read 6254 times)

RusticBohemian

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Anyone living on less than 20k a year? What are your investments and withdrawal rate like? Got a paid-off home? How are you liking your life?

Sometimes I'm tempted by a smaller stache and smaller spending goal that could be quickly attained, but I'm curious about how that's played out for others. Do you feel constrained?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 01:07:01 PM by RusticBohemian »

Lan Mandragoran

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2018, 12:53:28 PM »
I know some people reportedly do this, but I'm still not sure how thats possible if they have health insurance. Maybe they dont buy health insurance.

jim555

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2018, 01:03:57 PM »
I'm under 20K in spending.  Paid off home and car.  I could spend a lot more if I wanted, but I actually like not spending.  ACA pays for all the health coverage.

I'm only constrained because I choose to be.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2018, 03:14:56 PM »
I know some people reportedly do this, but I'm still not sure how thats possible if they have health insurance. Maybe they dont buy health insurance.
Retired military, ACA with PCT & CSR, and Medicaid will keep those healthcare costs down.  With ACA, I could do it since my current bare bones expenses are $1350/mo.  I've spent under $20K/yr most years while maintaining a 70-80% savings rate.  But, I will have more opportunities and time for more entertainment and travel in FIRE, so I have no intentions on keeping my spending that low when I FIRE, even though I have been while still working.  $50K/yr is more like it.  Note - this is as a single person with no kids and a paid-off home.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 03:16:49 PM by DreamFIRE »

EngineeringFI

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2018, 03:54:23 PM »
Dr Doom's budget from livingafi.com was $18k per year if I remember correctly from his "draw down" series of blog posts. It would be interesting to hear how things are going, but the newest post is from 2016.

BTDretire

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2018, 05:38:14 PM »
I know some people reportedly do this, but I'm still not sure how thats possible if they have health insurance. Maybe they dont buy health insurance.
Retired military, ACA with PCT & CSR, and Medicaid will keep those healthcare costs down.  With ACA, I could do it since my current bare bones expenses are $1350/mo.  I've spent under $20K/yr most years while maintaining a 70-80% savings rate.  But, I will have more opportunities and time for more entertainment and travel in FIRE, so I have no intentions on keeping my spending that low when I FIRE, even though I have been while still working.  $50K/yr is more like it.  Note - this is as a single person with no kids and a paid-off home.

  It will be interesting to see if you can really spend $50k a year, after living a a much lower amount.

MilesTeg

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2018, 05:44:02 PM »
I'm under 20K in spending.  Paid off home and car.  I could spend a lot more if I wanted, but I actually like not spending.  ACA pays for all the health coverage.

I'm only constrained because I choose to be.

You have no qualms about mooching off of your fellow citizens?

PDXTabs

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2018, 05:45:43 PM »
I'm under 20K in spending.  Paid off home and car.  I could spend a lot more if I wanted, but I actually like not spending.  ACA pays for all the health coverage.

I'm only constrained because I choose to be.

You have no qualms about mooching off of your fellow citizens?

As the only western democracy that doesn't offer universal healthcare to every citizen, I have no qualms with jim555 utilizing this legal social program that is codified in law.

EDITed to add - If I don't mind "tax avoidance" strategies, why would I mind this? The law is the law. I don't tell you that your IRA is mooching.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 10:49:46 PM by PDXTabs »

jim555

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2018, 05:48:49 PM »
I'm under 20K in spending.  Paid off home and car.  I could spend a lot more if I wanted, but I actually like not spending.  ACA pays for all the health coverage.

I'm only constrained because I choose to be.

You have no qualms about mooching off of your fellow citizens?
No qualms.  I have been leached for 30 years, it is about time I got something back.

MasterStache

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2018, 05:53:37 PM »
I'm under 20K in spending.  Paid off home and car.  I could spend a lot more if I wanted, but I actually like not spending.  ACA pays for all the health coverage.

I'm only constrained because I choose to be.

You have no qualms about mooching off of your fellow citizens?

Do you?

Maenad

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2018, 06:32:10 AM »
Dr Doom's budget from livingafi.com was $18k per year if I remember correctly from his "draw down" series of blog posts. It would be interesting to hear how things are going, but the newest post is from 2016.

I thought that was his half of the household expenses, as his wife didn't want to RE. (I could be wrong, I'm just going from memory.)

Hirondelle

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2018, 06:37:21 AM »
I know some people reportedly do this, but I'm still not sure how thats possible if they have health insurance. Maybe they dont buy health insurance.

Some people live in countries that have actual affordable health insurance/health care systems. That makes spending less than $20k much and much easier :)

kpd905

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2018, 06:55:48 AM »
I'm under 20K in spending.  Paid off home and car.  I could spend a lot more if I wanted, but I actually like not spending.  ACA pays for all the health coverage.

I'm only constrained because I choose to be.

You have no qualms about mooching off of your fellow citizens?

Oh, here we go...

The ACA tax "subsidy" is just a tax credit.  If you take a child tax credit, the EITC, the Retirement savings credit, or even deductions like putting money into a pre-tax account, should you feel guilty for any of those?  If you have ever taken the mortgage interest deduction, do you feel guilty for living in subsidized housing?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 07:04:33 AM by kpd905 »

Mustache ride

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2018, 08:01:21 AM »
I'm under 20K in spending.  Paid off home and car.  I could spend a lot more if I wanted, but I actually like not spending.  ACA pays for all the health coverage.

I'm only constrained because I choose to be.

You have no qualms about mooching off of your fellow citizens?

Oh, here we go...

The ACA tax "subsidy" is just a tax credit.  If you take a child tax credit, the EITC, the Retirement savings credit, or even deductions like putting money into a pre-tax account, should you feel guilty for any of those?  If you have ever taken the mortgage interest deduction, do you feel guilty for living in subsidized housing?

Personally I don't have an issue taking advantage of the system and would do it myself, so no judgement here. But your comparison is a bit sloppy in that the intent of the ACA was not to subsidize people who found ways to take advantage of the rules. The other deductions/credits you mentioned are being utilized in the way they were meant to be when put into place by the government.

mathlete

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2018, 08:02:17 AM »
I can see both sides here. Calling someone a moocher for taking a tax credit is unnecessarily loaded. At the same time though, conflating tax credits and deductions is suspect. Especially when the tax credit is refundable, like the ACA.

It's all well and good to talk about how other Western countries do things differently. And yeah, perhaps the US should have a more robust social system too. But our lack of a more robust social safety net also favors owning capital to the point at which early retirement becomes significantly easier. Very low long term capital gains. Business friendly regulatory environment. Ample tax deductions available to higher income people. SS tax phases out North of $100K.

Our household makes over $100K and between FICA, FIT, and property taxes, we pay less than 20% of our gross income thanks to low taxes and deductions for aggressive saving and investing. I'd be lying if I said I had no reservations about whether I "pay my fair share". I think it is something we should all think about.

jim555

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2018, 08:22:09 AM »
Personally I don't have an issue taking advantage of the system and would do it myself, so no judgement here. But your comparison is a bit sloppy in that the intent of the ACA was not to subsidize people who found ways to take advantage of the rules. The other deductions/credits you mentioned are being utilized in the way they were meant to be when put into place by the government.
How does one "take advantage of the rules" by following the rules?  I am not lying or defrauding, just following the rules exactly.  Should I raise my income so I can pay more? 

I hate when threads go down this path.

PDXTabs

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2018, 08:29:43 AM »
I have not retired on $20k/yr, and I probably won't.

I do however plan to move somewhere that I have access to universal health care.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2018, 09:00:18 AM »
OP, have you read through the old Early Retirement Extreme posts? That tends to be more in the territory of the sub-$20k/yr.

There's also a journal I haven't followed, but the title is: Life on a Dime, or less than $25,000 a year. https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/i'm-back!-life-on-a-dime-or-less-than-$25-000-a-year/ Might have the type of info you're looking for.

Another forumer who I believe is sub-$20k expenses is monstermonster (she spends ~$1400/month). Here is her current journal: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/bikes-bowie-and-business-using-glitter-to-double-my-net-worth-by-30/

Mustache ride

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2018, 09:27:49 AM »
Personally I don't have an issue taking advantage of the system and would do it myself, so no judgement here. But your comparison is a bit sloppy in that the intent of the ACA was not to subsidize people who found ways to take advantage of the rules. The other deductions/credits you mentioned are being utilized in the way they were meant to be when put into place by the government.
How does one "take advantage of the rules" by following the rules?  I am not lying or defrauding, just following the rules exactly.  Should I raise my income so I can pay more? 

I hate when threads go down this path.

My intention was not to derail the thread, so this will be my last response on the subject. The government did not intend (my assumption, although likely) to give subsidized healthcare to people who saved a lot of money and can live on only a little bit who retire. It was meant to help low earning individuals or families get access to healthcare. You are playing by the rules, and as previously mentioned I don't have a problem with it and if in the same situation would do the same thing, but to compare it to pre-tax retirement savings or mortgage interest deductions is misleading.

Zikoris

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2018, 09:45:04 AM »
We happily spend $27,000/year for two people, and have for many years. Take out the fancy-pants international vacations and we're down to $18,000, or $9,000 each.

As far as what that looks like, our lives are great. As mentioned, lots of fancy-pants travel all over the world - for example, this year we explored central Mexico in January, leave for Europe in less than two weeks, and are going to Vietnam in the winter, in addition to a bunch of smaller trips within Canada. We live in a very nice minimalist studio apartment in a city we like. We don't have a car, but planned everything so we can walk everywhere, so it's no hardship. We have a cat. Lots of fun hobbies. We basically lead a very chill, relaxed lifestyle. Our net worth right now is around 350K, and my partner just quit his job yesterday to focus solely on his fun side gig.

jim555

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2018, 10:16:06 AM »
Once you have your housing and medical taken care of you can live on very little, it is not that difficult.  I am in walking distance to the stores and hardly drive any more.  Don't need work clothes or train/subway/gas for commuting.  Don't pay Federal taxes with low income and QDI/LTCG.  Don't have to save for retirement any more.  Don't pay Social Security.  Get low electric rates with low income.  Have time to shop for sales. 

Snake P. Jenga

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2018, 10:17:38 AM »
My last year of expenses while working was around $15,000. First 6 months of FIRE-battical travel were basically free - Medicaid expansion and no rent, so only cell phone, food, bus tickets and a couple plane tickets. I felt free, not constrained! I have very few needs, though, and am flexible on housing.

I'm back in a job and dang is this expensive. I could live much more cheaply in FIRE.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2018, 10:18:29 AM »
Personally I don't have an issue taking advantage of the system and would do it myself, so no judgement here. But your comparison is a bit sloppy in that the intent of the ACA was not to subsidize people who found ways to take advantage of the rules. The other deductions/credits you mentioned are being utilized in the way they were meant to be when put into place by the government.
How does one "take advantage of the rules" by following the rules?  I am not lying or defrauding, just following the rules exactly.  Should I raise my income so I can pay more? 

I hate when threads go down this path.

Agreed.  You would be a fool not to take the ACA tax credit that you qualify for just as someone would be a fool not to take the child tax credit that they qualify for.  I will take the ACA tax credit if I qualify when I FIRE if it's still available.  I didn't save >$1M just to spend it on healthcare while ignoring tax credits that could help.

monstermonster

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2018, 10:22:03 AM »
I will definitely be under $20K in retirement considering I am way under in living expense and barely above that in income  when paying for health insurance out of pocket.  I plan on Lean FIRE because I have always lived lean, but FIRE is far off for me.

The hope is a paid off house will contribute, right now rent is about 60% of my monthly expenses.

Check out early retirement extreme.

alex753

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2018, 10:30:34 AM »
Anyone living on less than 20k a year? What are your investments and withdrawal rate like? Got a paid-off home? How are you liking your life?

Sometimes I'm tempted by a smaller stache and smaller spending goal that could be quickly attained, but I'm curious about how that's played out for others. Do you feel constrained?

I'm not FIRED but living in a LCOL (Appleton WI) area where my expenses are as follows:

Rent   $780
Car ($4,570 remaining but I could pay it off) $400
Car insurance   $46
Gas   $30
Utilities   $60
Target   $80
Food   $565
Internet/Cable   $42
Cell Phone   $52
Savings   $0
Ent.,Netflix, Pandora, X   $43
Total:   $2,098

Less car payment is $1,698 or $20,376 yearly...

I live in a nice apartment and don't watch my food budget too closely. 

For me, this is the lifestyle I like living (although I hate the area). 

I eat healthy food, love the gym, reading thinking, learning, Netflix, BluRay movies, going for drives.  I'm still partial to and want to get back to SoCal but my lifestyle wouldn't change.  I'd just need to budget about another $1,300 month in housing or mortgage costs.   The other activity I like that would increase my costs is fly-fishing for trout in Colorado or similar areas in the Rocky Mountains, so that would add an additional yearly cost of $1,500 to $3,000 to travel and vacation.

So I know for a fact I could live my desired lifestyle well on 20K or less in a LCOL.  Vegas/Phoenix could work for me too.  And from what I've read there's tons of places in the South and South East, and other locations,  you can find those kinds of rents and costs.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 10:33:10 AM by alex753 »

monstermonster

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2018, 10:49:54 AM »
My SSO was FIRE'd (went back to work because he got an offer he couldn't refuse, but is saving 100% of his pay from that extremely well-paid job), and was living off about $25,000 annually, including $850 a month of rent. His stache is about a million, with more than half in real estate (commercial and residential). Once he finishes building a second unit on his rental property and using that hella fancy job to pay it off in the next 3 years, his expenses will likely drop below $20,000 a year.

My expenses are ˜16K a year right now, I make about $22K annualized, but am hoping to get that to $35K by the end of the year (run my own startup business).

Household & Insurance – $8,406
$7,380 – Rent
$330 – Water, Commons, Garbage, Sewer
$336 – Electricity
$240 – Internet
$140 – Renter’s Insurance
$120 – Household Items (detergent, TP, toothpaste, razors, etc)

Basic Food – $2,110

$1,860 – Groceries (including coffee/tea)
$250 – Annual farm half-share

Transport – $310

Bike Repairs & Parts – $250
Transit Trips – $60

Medical – $774
$100 – Copays before OOP Max reached in March (my drug is very very expensive so I hit my $7,500 OOP max via co-pay assistance early in the year)
$444 – Health Insurance (*with subsidy based on $22K income – I put the difference away in a Traditional IRA which keeps my AGI low- the market price for this is $284/month, last year I paid out of pocket each month and got the difference at tax time)
$230 – Dental Out of Pocket (no insurance, luckily good teeth)

Extra Food & Drink – $620

$360 – Restaurants & Bars
$180 – Tea/Coffee Out
$80 – Alcohol for hosting

Fun Stuff – $2,099

$564  – Fitness Membership
$500 – Clothing/Costumes
$250 – Dance Classes
$220 – Haircuts
$150 – Cosmetics (ugh) and Skin Care
$150 – Gifts
$120 – Entertainment (shows, movies)
$120 – “Spending Money”  (candy, library fines, flotsam)
$100 – My Own Birthday Treat (whatever that may be)
$45 – C02 Refills for Sparkling Water


Personal (Non-Work) Travel – $1,400

$1,200  – Savings for annual international 3-5 week trip
$200 –  Travel Hacking CC Fees

Charitable –  $600 - this is a minimum, usually it is higher, depending on income

Cell phone is $40/month but my business pays for it right now, I could get that down to about $20/month.


DreamFIRE

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2018, 12:01:48 PM »
I know some people reportedly do this, but I'm still not sure how thats possible if they have health insurance. Maybe they dont buy health insurance.
Retired military, ACA with PCT & CSR, and Medicaid will keep those healthcare costs down.  With ACA, I could do it since my current bare bones expenses are $1350/mo.  I've spent under $20K/yr most years while maintaining a 70-80% savings rate.  But, I will have more opportunities and time for more entertainment and travel in FIRE, so I have no intentions on keeping my spending that low when I FIRE, even though I have been while still working.  $50K/yr is more like it.  Note - this is as a single person with no kids and a paid-off home.

  It will be interesting to see if you can really spend $50k a year, after living a a much lower amount.

Indeed, I made a similar comment a few weeks ago:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/chalanging-the-4-'rule'/msg2031735/#msg2031735

I just checked my spending through 6 months, and at $1150/mo, that's a pace of $13,800 for the year.  However, I'm really needing to get some new appliances, a new sofa, and a large dead tree removed from my lawn, so even adding in those large expenses, my actual spending will probably be $18K to $19K for the year if nothing significant comes up unexpectedly in the next 6 months.  $50K/yr in FIRE is the spending level which gets me near 100% success rate based on current stash levels FIREing within the year, and I'll have so much more free time to do things and travel that I'm certain my spending will increase, albeit not necessarily to $50K/yr.

swampwiz

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2018, 12:22:08 PM »
Anyone living on less than 20k a year? What are your investments and withdrawal rate like? Got a paid-off home? How are you liking your life?

Sometimes I'm tempted by a smaller stache and smaller spending goal that could be quickly attained, but I'm curious about how that's played out for others. Do you feel constrained?

I am a childless bachelor spending about that, and I could drop that down to about $12K/yr if I gave up world traveling 8 months a year, skiing 1-2/3 months a year, and a few other disposable spending.  And I include $150/mo in beer as "essential", LOL.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 12:25:07 PM by swampwiz »

swampwiz

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2018, 12:27:39 PM »
I'm under 20K in spending.  Paid off home and car.  I could spend a lot more if I wanted, but I actually like not spending.  ACA pays for all the health coverage.

I'm only constrained because I choose to be.

You have no qualms about mooching off of your fellow citizens?

Yes, I have no qualms about it.

EAT YOUR HEART OUT.

Zikoris

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2018, 02:27:46 PM »
@Zikoris said it the right way above - $x household and $Χ/person. Although it would be interesting to see if she, or any other couple, could live alone (no roommates) in a similar manner they do now (except for downsizing if possible) and if they could still FIRE on a low amount.

Yes, I try to always be really really clear if I'm talking about joint or individual expenses, because we do track both, and sometimes I quote numbers for one versus the other - like if I'm talking specifically about haircuts, that's 100% me, versus personal care in general, which would include that plus everything else.

The single/couple spending is an interesting thought experiment. In our case, our spending is driven a lot higher by my partner's preferences and desires. For example, when we travel we tend to pay a premium for direct flights at convenient times, and pretty nice accommodations. He also likes to eat "fancier" stuff, get donuts pretty regularly, and generally have nicer apartments then I would go for on my own. He's just quite comfort oriented in general, which is fine - I can work around that. On my own, all that stuff would get axed. So I imagine on our own, his costs would go up substantially, and mine would drop or stay the same. Of course, it's impossible to know exactly how that would play out.

tipster350

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2018, 05:55:49 AM »
I've read that the average living expenses for a couple are 1.6 times the expenses for a single person. YMMV

If you're in a partnership with someone who has the same general goals and values when it comes to finances, it is far easier to reach FI. As a single person, I spend a lot on things that if I had someone to help me, I wouldn't spend at all. I don't want to keep imposing on friends to help all the time, as it gets old, plus we are getting old and the enthusiasm to help, say, with loading and unloading a piece of furniture diminishes with age. There are a lot of easy two-person jobs around the house that are difficult or impossible for one person to accomplish. Sure, a small amount of the extra expense for goods and services for one is offset by not having to accommodate the wishes of a spendier partner.


Arbitrage

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2018, 10:30:45 AM »
Re: ACA tax credits, I also fall into the camp of feeling like I've paid in/am paying in plenty (more than 'my share'), and don't at all feel bad about the prospect of getting some of that back via tax credit if/when I am able.  Since FIRE is still at least a few years off, and the ACA may not be long for this world in its current form, we'll see if I am able.

drudgep

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2018, 01:15:04 PM »
If you live on less than 20k per year in your accumulation phase, why wouldn't you be able to in fire? And under 20k you will get aca credits or medicaid in an expanded state. For now.

jim555

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2018, 02:21:28 PM »
Spartana, you can be my room mate.  I could drop the base expenses from 14K to 9.5k by splitting the shared housing and utils.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2018, 06:33:59 PM »
If you live on less than 20k per year in your accumulation phase, why wouldn't you be able to in fire? And under 20k you will get aca credits or medicaid in an expanded state. For now.
I actually answered that in two of my posts prior to you asking.  Spartana nailed it also.  The more applicable question isn't "wouldn't you able able to?" but rather "do you want to?"

You can actually "live on" far more than $20K and get ACA PCT and CSR as long as your MAGI income is low enough.  In fact, that's my plan, $50K/yr spending on $24K/yr MAGI.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2018, 06:37:09 PM »
Spartana, you can be my room mate.  I could drop the base expenses from 14K to 9.5k by splitting the shared housing and utils.
Oh but I come with the dreaded beast "The Barkinator" who will not, EVER, stop...barking. So there's that ;-). I actually have a roommate now so really have cut expenses to very low.
Try a shocker collar.  Not the roommate, but the dog.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2018, 08:01:39 PM »
I've read that the average living expenses for a couple are 1.6 times the expenses for a single person. YMMV

But if the household income is the same, your taxes are a lot lower when married filing jointly vs. a single person with the same household income, which helps narrow the gap.

notmyhand

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2018, 08:28:59 AM »
I'm just shocked and impressed by this group.  Just looking at my annual insurance/property taxes alone costs me:

8k in property taxes
3k in house/car/mine subsidence insurance
5k in disability insurance
2k in life insurance
Total = 18k which is more than some of you live on!  And that doesn't even count health insurance costs.

Nice job, wow.

monstermonster

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2018, 09:13:51 AM »
3k in house/car/mine subsidence insurance
5k in disability insurance
2k in life insurance
Total = 18k which is more than some of you live on!  And that doesn't even count health insurance costs.
Is insurance extremely expensive where you live or are you carrying too much insurance? Those are some jawdropping numbers.

(Are you in a lot of debt and need a lot of insurance?)

jim555

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2018, 09:31:50 AM »
I'm just shocked and impressed by this group.  Just looking at my annual insurance/property taxes alone costs me:

8k in property taxes
3k in house/car/mine subsidence insurance
5k in disability insurance
2k in life insurance
Total = 18k which is more than some of you live on!  And that doesn't even count health insurance costs.

Nice job, wow.
When you are FI you don't need life or disability insurance.  Property tax, either move into a small condo or go to a LCOL state.  Car insurance is basic liability only on a car that is old.  I run cars for as long as I can.

Zikoris

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2018, 09:37:29 AM »
I'm just shocked and impressed by this group.  Just looking at my annual insurance/property taxes alone costs me:

8k in property taxes
3k in house/car/mine subsidence insurance
5k in disability insurance
2k in life insurance
Total = 18k which is more than some of you live on!  And that doesn't even count health insurance costs.

Nice job, wow.

That's a LOT of insurance!

For reference, as one of the low-budget couples, we spend $174/year on insurance. And no property tax, as we're renters.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2018, 10:00:55 AM »
I will be.

My planned draw down will be $18k/yr, and starting with a ~$500-550k portfolio.

I do plan on using geographical arbitrage to really enjoy that spending level. SE Asia, eastern Europe, Central America, as well as long thru hikes (AT, PCT), van camping around the US for a year, living on a sailboat for a while and exploring the Caribbean, east coast, and great lakes.

This is for my spending, my SO will provide the other half through investments or PT work.

Tass

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2018, 02:42:01 PM »
If you live on less than 20k per year in your accumulation phase, why wouldn't you be able to in fire? And under 20k you will get aca credits or medicaid in an expanded state. For now.

I live on $15-18k right now but expect my expenses to increase long before I reach FI. My lifestyle is going to change as I get older. Like Spartana, I don't plan to continue my current roommate setup forever - and one of the most motivating reasons for me not to work full time through middle age would be to spend more time raising kids. (Which I don't currently have, to be clear.)

Plus, being a grad student makes it very easy to resist social pressures to "keep up" my spending - people expect me to be poor. ;)

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2018, 02:52:55 PM »
I'm predicting my spending will stay the same give or take, + the cost of private health insurance or self insuring outside of the USA.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2018, 08:54:10 PM »
Spartana, you can be my room mate.  I could drop the base expenses from 14K to 9.5k by splitting the shared housing and utils.
Oh but I come with the dreaded beast "The Barkinator" who will not, EVER, stop...barking. So there's that ;-). I actually have a roommate now so really have cut expenses to very low.
Try a shocker collar.  Not the roommate, but the dog.
ahhh poor thing! She's actually my "hearing ear dog" because I'm mostly deaf from an accident so she needs to bark but doesn't really bark as much as I rant about. And then only if unknown people are near or There are strange noises.
Ahhh, yeah, I remember you mentioning that before.  Well, it's good to hear the Barkinator takes a break from barking sometimes.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Anyone retired on less than 20k? What's your stache and life like?
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2018, 04:31:00 PM »
If you live on less than 20k per year in your accumulation phase, why wouldn't you be able to in fire? And under 20k you will get aca credits or medicaid in an expanded state. For now.
I actually answered that in two of my posts prior to you asking.  Spartana nailed it also.  The more applicable question isn't "wouldn't you able able to?" but rather "do you want to?"

You can actually "live on" far more than $20K and get ACA PCT and CSR as long as your MAGI income is low enough.  In fact, that's my plan, $50K/yr spending on $24K/yr MAGI.
Currently my taxable is under $11K per year (rest is not taxed) so am in the zero income tax bracket for both fed and state. I assume that would mean I would qualify for Medicaid also if I wanted (use the VA). That will change when I'm older and start withdrawing from my taxable "old lady money" 457 plan.

As long as you were in a state that expanded Medicaid under the ACA.