Anyone get frustrated as hell with doctors?

[rothwem]

I've had ongoing knee problems and I can't seem to find a doctor that will give me the time of day, or even make a referral to a PT.  I've seen three different doctors, had 4 appointments and my knee still bugs me if I try to go running.  The only thing that's changed is my wallet is lighter than it was to the tune of $1000 from the doctor's appointments. 

I'm thinking about maybe going to a chiropractor?  I'm pretty sure I need PT of some kind, but physical therapists won't take an appointment without a diagnosis, and all the doctors want to do is send me home with a prescription for extra strength Advil. 

[Philociraptor]

Try Airrosti. They specialize in sports-related injuries, work with most insurance, and have a policy of getting your issue fixed in 3 sessions or less. My wife had a nagging shoulder issue for months which they solved in 2 sessions.

[AliEli]

Wow, that's really annoying and expensive for you.  And yes, doctors can be bullies / ignore people at times.  It can be horrible.

I hope that you are not running on your knee while it is injured and causing you pain.  How many doctors have you seen?  Are you old or young?  Before you go to any allied health practitioners, it is worth getting scans to identify any underlying pathology. 

[2buttons]

This might be a stupid question, but have you called back any of the doctors or their nurses and explained to them that you are still having issues and let them know that you would come back in but only if they agreed to provide a diagnosis and referral to a PT? 

No offense, but it seems a little odd to me that you are bouncing around to different docs and not putting pressure on any one of them repeatedly.

[bleumanchu]

If you haven't already, I'd recommend considering getting in to see a provider who specializes in Sports Medicine specifically. If you can find a Primary Care Sports Medicine (PCSM) doc (typically boarded in Family Medicine, Physical Medicine and Rehabiltiation, Pediatrics, Emergency Medicine, or Internal Medicine WITH additional fellowship training in Sports Medicine), that would probably be ideal. Looks like the Duke system has some Family Practice/Sports Medicine specialists in your area. Not every Orthopaedic Surgeon approaches all issues with the mindset you might be hoping for, though some do (particularly if they have specialty training in surgical Sports Medicine). A lot of primary care physicians, unfortunately, don't have a lot of comfort or experience with treating musculoskeletal issues.

Getting to the right provider from the get-go, while sometimes difficult if you don't know better, can be key. Their knowledge base, exam, and treatment approach are likelier to get you what you need without nearly as much wasted time, effort, or money.

I know it can be frustrating. Good luck.

[Dezrah]

I hope your condition is treatable and you're able to find someone to help you.

I have a 28 year old cousin who just underwent back surgery again.  He played football through high school, lacrosse and water polo in college (club level), and is now very active in his sand volleyball league.  He absolutely loves sports but he has played hard and it has destroyed his body.  Every few months we seem to hear about another sports injury surgery he's getting.  His doctors told him he basically has the joints of a someone twice his age and the only way to halt it is to stop impact sports.  He won't listen.  It's his body, but I just don't want him to have to face 60+ years of chronic pain or something.

[cj25]

I hate doctors as well.  I've found alternative practitioners to be much better when it comes to actually resolving issues.  I would definitely try a chiropractor, but even they are all different with techniques and it can sometimes take a couple tries to find the right one.  Katy Bowman is a biomechanist and has a whole website full of information on strengthening your whole body with real movement & several books and podcasts.  It really comes down how you are moving and carrying your body.  If you go to her site and do a search for the word "knee", it will bring up a bunch of information and exercises.  I even saw a chiro who was trained by Katy to fix an issue with my ankle that the regular foot doctor said I would just have wear an orthotic and walk as little as possible for the rest of my life. I now walk miles and wear barefoot shoes. 

https://nutritiousmovement.com/

[sisto]

Doctors simply learned from books and most of the time are making an educated guess about what's wrong. They can't really do a real job due to insurance companies limiting what they are allowed to do. As someone already said they are trying to treat the symptom which is how the system was designed. Big pharma wants you to stay sick so they can make money off of you. There is no money in curing diseases only in masking symptoms with pills they can charge you crazy money for. Then you need another pill to counteract the side effects of the first. Personally I fund my own care through non traditional means. For the knee issue I would recommend finding a good acupuncturist. Knee pain can come from tight muscles or poor alignment of your spine etc. Many times it's from a tight ITB. Here's a good article about it that might be worth reading for you. Good luck!

http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/it-band-syndrome

[iris lily]

This might be a stupid question, but have you called back any of the doctors or their nurses and explained to them that you are still having issues and let them know that you would come back in but only if they agreed to provide a diagnosis and referral to a PT? 

No offense, but it seems a little odd to me that you are bouncing around to different docs and not putting pressure on any one of them repeatedly.

I agree, why wont they five a referral to a PT?

And also, can you fo to a PT yourself without the dr referral? I am a little,fuzzy about that.

[FIFoFum]

I've had ongoing knee problems and I can't seem to find a doctor that will give me the time of day, or even make a referral to a PT.  I've seen three different doctors, had 4 appointments and my knee still bugs me if I try to go running.  The only thing that's changed is my wallet is lighter than it was to the tune of $1000 from the doctor's appointments. 

I'm thinking about maybe going to a chiropractor?  I'm pretty sure I need PT of some kind, but physical therapists won't take an appointment without a diagnosis, and all the doctors want to do is send me home with a prescription for extra strength Advil.

PT's need a diagnosis because if something is genuinely wrong with your knee, they could mess it up worse. If you have a torn ligament or scar tissue, PT isn't going to "fix" it. Same is true for a chiropractor - yeah, you can find someone who will start doing "stuff" but anyone who actually cares about your health needs to figure out what's going on first.

Why are you sure you need PT? What caused your knee pain to start in the first place?

[mm1970]

Hmm...maybe ask around for a better doctor?  My doctor is about my age (late 40s) and has been my doc for almost 20 years.  He's very active.

Most of the time I see him it's for injury -piriformis, shoulder, lower back, achilles tendonitis...

For the shoulder and the achilles, he gave me some exercises to do, and they helped.
For the piriformis and the lower back injury (from carrying a toddler on my hip) he sent me to PT.
For the knee, I just never bothered and waited 2 years until it went away.

I think the helpful thing is that my doc mountain bikes, road bikes, and runs, so he is accustomed to seeing injuries from sports and such.

Ask your friends.

[piethief]

I'd second Airrosti.  I haven't been there but know several people who have and they have all said good things.  I am a believer in the PT type of treatments.  I had bad tendinitis in both elbows for over a year that couldn't be fixed, even with some experimental treatments.  Eventually just went to occupational therapist and started taking supplements and it cleared up.

I'd highly recommend taking a multi vitamin and fish oil.  The inflammation I have had when I get sore or over do it, has been incredibly diminished.  So much that I can't believe I went all these years dealing with what I was dealing with before.

[Murse]

I have been having knee pain over the last year however my experience has not been like yours. The first 3 months or so I was kind of blown off and told "it will get better." Then I asked for PT and she told me "your the healthiest person I'll see all day, it'll go away." I finally went to an orthopedist who just straight up told me to expect pain off and on the rest of my life because of the way my knees formed. Along the way I tried acupuncture, chiropractic, naturopathic and PT twice. The PT helps manage my symptoms but doesn't get rid of the pain. The naturopath I am going back to see next week, he was giving me injections called "prolotherapy" and that is the only thing that has helped (but is spendy.)

Along the way I have gotten two sets of X-rays and double knee MRI's. It's frustrating but keep looking until you are satisfied.

[DA]

I found this article about pain to be incredibly enlightening (and it explains why you're having trouble finding someone who can help you).  http://startingstrength.com/article/aches-and-pains

[SisterX]

The only advice I have is to be wary of anyone pushing surgery. My dad went through that and his knee STILL hurts. He found out about a month or so ago that, apparently, most of the time knee surgery is worthless. Doesn't take away the pain or improve quality of life. But it makes surgeons a lot wealthier. (Or, as we on these forums know, most likely just gives them more money to blow on stupid crap.)

From my own life experiences, always, always be wary of surgery. If there are alternatives, try all of them first, and then still think long and hard about whether or not surgery is a good option.

[geekette]

I can hardly go to a doctor without them recommending PT.  Just this summer I've had a torn meniscus - recommended PT.  Before I could get to my first appointment, I had horrible sciatica on the other side - recommended PT.  Long term shoulder pain - PT.  At least no one recommended PT for the sprained ankle, which was also this summer.  Rest, ice, and ibuprofen have been helpful for me.  I shied away from PT since I tried it years ago for the shoulder problem and it made it worse.

I have never been so happy to see the end of summer.

[moof]

I've had ongoing knee problems and I can't seem to find a doctor that will give me the time of day, or even make a referral to a PT.  I've seen three different doctors, had 4 appointments and my knee still bugs me if I try to go running.  The only thing that's changed is my wallet is lighter than it was to the tune of $1000 from the doctor's appointments. 

I'm thinking about maybe going to a chiropractor?  I'm pretty sure I need PT of some kind, but physical therapists won't take an appointment without a diagnosis, and all the doctors want to do is send me home with a prescription for extra strength Advil.

Sounds typical.  It took 4 different doctors and 8 appointments to get a basic idea what was going on with my wrists, and while I got a good diagnosis, no real improvement was made.  I basically got the piece of mind to know what was causing the pain and that I was not causing much further damage by just living with it.

Doc 1:  Ganglion cyst diagnosed (wrong), took X-rays at my insistence.  Prescribed high does Ibuprofen.  Nothing on X-rays according to radiologists report (important).  2 appointments total.

Doc 2, specialist after Doc 1's regime did nothing but numb me:  "Headache of the wrist", steroid injection into the TFC of the wrists (ouch!).  Modest improvement that wore off after 6 months.  2 appointments total.

Doc 3 in new area and they flared up again:  "Just give me a referral to a specialist."  She obliged.  1 appointment.

Doc 4:  New X-rays with specialist #2.  Ulna's are too short, making for a goofy wrist joint, but not really clear if things could be improved.  Even I could see the issue, not sure why the radiologist before reported zilch.  2 more appoinments including an MRI, no real improvement to be had, Doc 4 took a job elsewhere, I gave up.  My wrists just suck and will probably cause issues and various amount of pain for the rest of my life.

I have very little faith in our medical system as it is administered these days.  Even with a good medical plan at work I have not been to the doctor in about 5 years.  The headache and lack of results is dis-heartening.

Regarding knees, definitely try different footwear and see if anything helps.  My left knee limited my running for years thanks to old racquetball damage that was constantly being irritated.  I tried the Fivefingers shoes and have been pain free for the last 5 years.  I don't think they are miracle cures or any of that bunk, but they make me run differently enough not irritate the old issue.  I also bike a lot which also has allowed me to build up muscles to do longer runs than I could do in my 20's and early 30's with less total running per week.

[rothwem]

To give a bit of background, I'm 29.  I ran cross country and track in high school, raced bikes in college and then started running again around 2010.  I was doing ~50 miles per week for a few years, until I got pneumonia and I had to stop for a month while my lungs cleared up.  When I got the okay to run again, I hit it too hard and hurt my Achilles.  When the Achilles healed, I ramped up slower, but about a year after that my knee started bugging me, and I haven't really run much longer than ~10 minutes in 6 months.  Total time that I've had this knee pain has been almost 2 years.  I'm not overweight, but I am 6'2" and 195 lbs.  I was 175 before this knee saga though...

Hmm...maybe ask around for a better doctor?  My doctor is about my age (late 40s) and has been my doc for almost 20 years.  He's very active.

Most of the time I see him it's for injury -piriformis, shoulder, lower back, achilles tendonitis...

For the shoulder and the achilles, he gave me some exercises to do, and they helped.
For the piriformis and the lower back injury (from carrying a toddler on my hip) he sent me to PT.
For the knee, I just never bothered and waited 2 years until it went away.

I think the helpful thing is that my doc mountain bikes, road bikes, and runs, so he is accustomed to seeing injuries from sports and such.

Ask your friends.

Yea, this is part of the reason I've been to three different docs.  The first was just a douche who didn't understand why someone would run intentionally.  The second was a sports doctor that I saw on a recommendation that told me to "ease into it, that'll be $300 please", the most recent is a sports doctor that was recommended to me by a friend of a friend that's a pro runner.  He gave me prescription strength advil and told me to stop running for two weeks and see how it was doing.  Well I was fine when I wasn't running but as soon as I started again I got knee pain!  I went back and he gave me an extension on the prescription.  Thanks but no thanks. 

A large part of the problem is that I can't seem to get a damn appointment within 2 weeks.  The cycle usually goes like this:

(1) I miss running, so I head out for a run
(2) Pain starts ~5 minutes in, so I stop, walk home and call doctor
(3) Can't get an appointment for 2 weeks, so I wait while not running
(4) After two weeks off, I've got no pain, so the doctor rolls his eyes when he sees me, tells me to "ease into it"
(5) I go for another run and have pain within 5 minutes and just say "fuck it, I'm not spending another $300", so I wait 6 months and then I start back at step (1)

I'm pretty sure its some kind of tendinitis, and I've had PT in the past for my Achilles and my IT band and it worked pretty well.  I just need a diagnosis it think.  I wonder if I need an MRI?  How much does a damn MRI cost?

[BTDretire]

The only advice I have is to be wary of anyone pushing surgery. My dad went through that and his knee STILL hurts. He found out about a month or so ago that, apparently, most of the time knee surgery is worthless.

 I would add:
  In my unrelated business, I see many older people that have had knee replacements.
I see the zipper on their knee, I ask about it and they say, I had a knee replacement.
Almost all are happy they did it, they mostly say rehab was really tough, but now they are happy. I do have one aquaintance that had a knee replaced and he said he wouldn't
do it again, however, that was early in his recovery and I suspect he didn't follow the rehab very well. I have not seen him for maybe 9 months, so I don't know what his feelings are now.

[Cap_Scarlet]

I went to a doctor with a knee problem and he asked me "when does it hurt" to which I answered "mostly when I walk up and down stairs".  He said "take an elevator".

$500.

[sisto]

To give a bit of background, I'm 29.  I ran cross country and track in high school, raced bikes in college and then started running again around 2010.  I was doing ~50 miles per week for a few years, until I got pneumonia and I had to stop for a month while my lungs cleared up.  When I got the okay to run again, I hit it too hard and hurt my Achilles.  When the Achilles healed, I ramped up slower, but about a year after that my knee started bugging me, and I haven't really run much longer than ~10 minutes in 6 months.  Total time that I've had this knee pain has been almost 2 years.  I'm not overweight, but I am 6'2" and 195 lbs.  I was 175 before this knee saga though...

Hmm...maybe ask around for a better doctor?  My doctor is about my age (late 40s) and has been my doc for almost 20 years.  He's very active.

Most of the time I see him it's for injury -piriformis, shoulder, lower back, achilles tendonitis...

For the shoulder and the achilles, he gave me some exercises to do, and they helped.
For the piriformis and the lower back injury (from carrying a toddler on my hip) he sent me to PT.
For the knee, I just never bothered and waited 2 years until it went away.

I think the helpful thing is that my doc mountain bikes, road bikes, and runs, so he is accustomed to seeing injuries from sports and such.

Ask your friends.

Yea, this is part of the reason I've been to three different docs.  The first was just a douche who didn't understand why someone would run intentionally.  The second was a sports doctor that I saw on a recommendation that told me to "ease into it, that'll be $300 please", the most recent is a sports doctor that was recommended to me by a friend of a friend that's a pro runner.  He gave me prescription strength advil and told me to stop running for two weeks and see how it was doing.  Well I was fine when I wasn't running but as soon as I started again I got knee pain!  I went back and he gave me an extension on the prescription.  Thanks but no thanks. 

A large part of the problem is that I can't seem to get a damn appointment within 2 weeks.  The cycle usually goes like this:

(1) I miss running, so I head out for a run
(2) Pain starts ~5 minutes in, so I stop, walk home and call doctor
(3) Can't get an appointment for 2 weeks, so I wait while not running
(4) After two weeks off, I've got no pain, so the doctor rolls his eyes when he sees me, tells me to "ease into it"
(5) I go for another run and have pain within 5 minutes and just say "fuck it, I'm not spending another $300", so I wait 6 months and then I start back at step (1)

I'm pretty sure its some kind of tendinitis, and I've had PT in the past for my Achilles and my IT band and it worked pretty well.  I just need a diagnosis it think.  I wonder if I need an MRI?  How much does a damn MRI cost?

I'm wondering if the achilles causing you to change your gait, which could cause knee pain. If it were me I think I'd try stretching really well and work on walking long distances to see if that causes pain, then try jogging before moving straight back to running.

[Dollar Slice]

... the most recent is a sports doctor that was recommended to me by a friend of a friend that's a pro runner.  He gave me prescription strength advil

I'm so, so tired of being told to take fricking ibuprofen all the damn time. Things I have been diagnosed with that I was told to take ibuprofen for as the only treatment/main treatment include: carpal tunnel syndrome; tendon impingement in my shoulder; very painful never-quite-fully-diagnosed nerve issue in arm/shoulder; lower back pain, including an episode of such severity that I was unable to sleep for two days because it was so painful to lay down; and my current issue of hallux limitus which is causing pain in both feet, ankles, knees, one hip, and my back due to being unable to walk correctly. And every damn one of them acted like they were gifting me with some special doctor secret, or doing me a real favor.

Chronic migraines got a recommendation of Excedrin instead of ibuprofen, just for a change of pace.

[erutio]

Disclosure:  I'm a doctor, I specialize in rehab medicine and have a special interest in running medicine. 

  The first was just a douche who didn't understand why someone would run intentionally.  The second was a sports doctor that I saw on a recommendation that told me to "ease into it, that'll be $300 please", the most recent is a sports doctor that was recommended to me by a friend of a friend that's a pro runner.  He gave me prescription strength advil and told me to stop running for two weeks and see how it was doing.  Well I was fine when I wasn't running but as soon as I started again I got knee pain!  I went back and he gave me an extension on the prescription.  Thanks but no thanks. 

You've had bad luck with doctors, not your fault by any means, but they honestly all sound shitty to me.  I wouldn't let any of my partners get away with that kind of behavior of those 3 doctors.
I dont know if you have a good primary care doctor, but usually the good doctors always seem to refer to other good doctors, while bad doctors keep referring their patients to other bad docs.  I don't know why this occurs, but seems to be a regular pattern I see.  I've seen shitty academic doctors as well as shitty private practice doctors. 
You're problem seems correctable at this time.  The relative rest and advil prescribed to you are to decreased any inflammation in your knee (but it doesn't treat the underlying problem), and as the inflammation goes down, you need to see a PT to address the musculotendinous imbalances that are causing your knee to hurt at 5 mins of running.  You need a PT that will watch you run, walk, jump, squat, etc, then give you an exercise program of strengthening and stretching for you do at home.   You only need to see a PT once a week, and then you do your program at home daily, even twice or 3 times daily if you can, and then go back next week for advancement or changing your exercises.  You don't need anyone doing any passive modalities to you (heat, ice, ultrasound, estim, massage, etc... you can do that on your couch).  That's a waste of your time and money.
If you want to PM me your location, I can see who I know in your area.  I'm connected nationally, but there are still large areas who I wouldn't know anyone, but maybe we'll get lucky here.

... the most recent is a sports doctor that was recommended to me by a friend of a friend that's a pro runner.  He gave me prescription strength advil

I'm so, so tired of being told to take fricking ibuprofen all the damn time. Things I have been diagnosed with that I was told to take ibuprofen for as the only treatment/main treatment include: carpal tunnel syndrome; tendon impingement in my shoulder; very painful never-quite-fully-diagnosed nerve issue in arm/shoulder; lower back pain, including an episode of such severity that I was unable to sleep for two days because it was so painful to lay down; and my current issue of hallux limitus which is causing pain in both feet, ankles, knees, one hip, and my back due to being unable to walk correctly. And every damn one of them acted like they were gifting me with some special doctor secret, or doing me a real favor.

Chronic migraines got a recommendation of Excedrin instead of ibuprofen, just for a change of pace.

That's because ibuprofen, despite being an old old medicine and over-the-counter, is still one of the most effective pain and anti-inflammatory medications we've ever invented.  All our new medications are just trying to match the effectiveness of good ol' ibuprofen.  Because they are new, they require a prescription, but they are not really any better.  The same goes for acetaminophen (tylenol). 
Pro-tip:  advil gives it's analgesic effects at any dosage, but for the anti-inflammatory effects of advil to kick in, you need to take at least 800mg three times a day with food (that's 4 pills each time).  I basically tell my patients to ignore the instructions on the bottle.  Of course, obligatory dont take this advice without consulting your own doctor first. 

For all your conditions you listed above, a trial of ibuprofen is absolutely the correct first step to take in the treatment algorithm. 

[Dollar Slice]

For all your conditions you listed above, a trial of ibuprofen is absolutely the correct first step to take in the treatment algorithm.

Except none of them were "trials" - I'd already been taking ibuprofen in almost every one of those cases, sometimes for months, sometimes at high doses, and it was not doing enough to help. I generally don't go to the doctor unless I'm desperate. I broke down crying at one of those appointments because I was in so much pain and they were blowing me off with ibuprofen again.

I can't wait until my stomach is in tatters because my doctors put me on high-dose ibuprofen for 20 years straight...

[Hotstreak]

Here's a trick I used in OP's situation.  It's called lying.  Whenever the Dr. recommends something to try something basic like advil, rest, stretching, etc., (which are temporary cures for temporary problems) say "I've actually been doing that for 4 weeks already, and it's not working, what else can you recommend?"  They should give you the referral you're looking for, or some kind of meds.

At that point, try the advil and rest if you haven't already.  If it works, great, if it doesn't, then use your referral or script.

[SisterX]

The only advice I have is to be wary of anyone pushing surgery. My dad went through that and his knee STILL hurts. He found out about a month or so ago that, apparently, most of the time knee surgery is worthless.

 I would add:
  In my unrelated business, I see many older people that have had knee replacements.
I see the zipper on their knee, I ask about it and they say, I had a knee replacement.
Almost all are happy they did it, they mostly say rehab was really tough, but now they are happy. I do have one aquaintance that had a knee replaced and he said he wouldn't
do it again, however, that was early in his recovery and I suspect he didn't follow the rehab very well. I have not seen him for maybe 9 months, so I don't know what his feelings are now.

Yes, replacements seem to be about the only time surgery (for such problems) is really, truly effective. My FIL got a hip replacement a couple of years ago and ended up wishing he'd done it much sooner. By the day after the surgery he was walking around in less pain than he'd had for years before the surgery.
That being said, a replacement did not sound at all like something the OP would want or need (based on probable age assumed by various factors in the first post, then confirmed by later addition). If someone is pushing surgery of a non-replacement type on a younger person, that way danger lies.

[2buttons]

I would start with Brooks' shoe the beast - very antimustachian, but effective.

I dont know your pain level, but have you tried to run through it? Like is it searing, you are going to collapse pain or is it just a nagging pain?

P.S. I dont know you and if you injure yourself more by running through it, I am not on the hook for it, but I just know that sometimes if you push through your body adapts and fixes it itself - that and bad ass running shoes.

[rothwem]

I'm wondering if the achilles causing you to change your gait, which could cause knee pain. If it were me I think I'd try stretching really well and work on walking long distances to see if that causes pain, then try jogging before moving straight back to running.

I definitely think it has something to do with it for sure. I don't get that "smooth" running feeling that I used to have.   

Disclosure:  I'm a doctor, I specialize in rehab medicine and have a special interest in running medicine. 

Hey, I sent you a PM.

[steviesterno]

if you want to check into a chiropractor I recommend (disclosure I am one) checking into a CCSP doc. they are certified with 100 hours of continuing ed in sports conditions including taping, active and passive rehab, and advanced diagnosis. I've had great luck getting runners pain free depending on what caused this issue in the first place.

At our office we work with area MRI places that charge about $400 if you don't have insurance or pay cash. That's the best I've heard. I'm in Dallas or I would be happy to help. well, I still am, but it would require some travel.

Anyway PM me if you'd like some info or would like some help finding a certified doc in your area.

[nancyjnelson]

I switched from conventional doctors to alternative medicine ten years ago after I went to two different GPs when I wasn't feeling well; not more than five minutes into my appointments - without doing tests or anything - each one offered to write me a prescription for valium.  WTF?  The naturopath I consulted next ran an entire panel of tests before determining I had thyroid issues.  It took several months, but I recovered.

The down side to naturopaths is that insurance doesn't pay for it.  The positive (which FAR outweighs the negative) is that I am healthy and take no prescription drugs (some supplements, however).

Of course should I break my leg or anything, I would not hesitate to go to a conventional doctor.  Balance is everything.   

[Radagast]

I had this, except I went to the same doc 4 times. Each time he mostly just wanted to get the appointment over as fast as possible and wasn't very helpful. I got a knee MRI too. The end result was that maybe I had rough cartilage, or not. I did get a prescription for a pretty sweet antiinflammatory called meloxicam though. It was pretty effective, you might try specifically asking about that. It kicked ibuprofen's ass. In the end I can hike with no issues, but still can't run. By the time I get in good enough shape to run a decent distance I need to stop again because my knee hurts.

[LaineyAZ]

FWIW, I've had mild pain issues with one knee while doing things like climbing or descending stairs.  Had a referral to PT which, along with at-home prescribed exercises, helped.  But since it's only on one side of my body the PT checked my hip alignment, and was pretty sure that the root cause is with my hip.

I've avoided stairs and only take an OTC pain med once in a while, and all is well.  But if the knee gets worse I'm definitely asking the doc to check out the hip too.

[EnjoyIt]

Disclaimer: I am a physician as well

Running is an interesting sport.  Some people can run for decades well into their 70s without any issues while others constantly hurt themselves.  I believe those injuries are either secondary to poor running form or that person's body is just not designed for long distance running.  Just an example, runners sometimes get pets that can run long distance with them.  No one will buy a Rottweiler or Bull Mastiff as a running mate.  You get a Ridgeback or a Weimaraner as those animals are bread runners.  My point is, if you have consistent issues running then maybe you should look at yourself and not a doctor to stop the pain. 

If you can ride a bike for 30 miles with no issues but 5 minutes on a run you have pain either figure out what you are doing wrong, or just stop running all together.


Next, for all those people complaining about not getting answers from a doctor.  Well guess what, the first step to an injury is rest and anti inflammatory medicine.  Sometimes it can take months to heal a ligamentous injury.  Physical therapy on top of that will help build strength in the muscles around the joint putting less strain on the joint itself.  This is the mainstay of therapy and requires dedication by the patient.

In my practice I often see patients hoping from doctor to doctor, from emergency department to emergency department with chronic joint pain and never actually doing what is recommended hoping for some magic instant cure that will fix the problem with a pill or injection.  Some of these patients do repetitive work, or are simply overweight and constantly put strain on their joints by the shear mass of their body. 

I will also shamefully admit that the way our insurance system works, we (physicians) are forced to spend so much time on our documentation and regulatory compliance that it leaves us little time with our patients to explain everything and get them to understand what is actually going on.  A 3-5 minute visit with a patient may take over 30 minutes of behind the scenes work to get the job done.  It is sad, I wish it wasn't the case and hope that one day it will change. Unfortunately in the last decade it has gotten worse, and I only see an increase in such waste in the future.

[startingsmall]

Disclaimer: I am a physician as well

Running is an interesting sport.  Some people can run for decades well into their 70s without any issues while others constantly hurt themselves.  I believe those injuries are either secondary to poor running form or that person's body is just not designed for long distance running.  Just an example, runners sometimes get pets that can run long distance with them.  No one will buy a Rottweiler or Bull Mastiff as a running mate.  You get a Ridgeback or a Weimaraner as those animals are bread runners.  My point is, if you have consistent issues running then maybe you should look at yourself and not a doctor to stop the pain. 

If you can ride a bike for 30 miles with no issues but 5 minutes on a run you have pain either figure out what you are doing wrong, or just stop running all together.


Next, for all those people complaining about not getting answers from a doctor.  Well guess what, the first step to an injury is rest and anti inflammatory medicine.  Sometimes it can take months to heal a ligamentous injury.  Physical therapy on top of that will help build strength in the muscles around the joint putting less strain on the joint itself.  This is the mainstay of therapy and requires dedication by the patient.

In my practice I often see patients hoping from doctor to doctor, from emergency department to emergency department with chronic joint pain and never actually doing what is recommended hoping for some magic instant cure that will fix the problem with a pill or injection.  Some of these patients do repetitive work, or are simply overweight and constantly put strain on their joints by the shear mass of their body. 

I will also shamefully admit that the way our insurance system works, we (physicians) are forced to spend so much time on our documentation and regulatory compliance that it leaves us little time with our patients to explain everything and get them to understand what is actually going on.  A 3-5 minute visit with a patient may take over 30 minutes of behind the scenes work to get the job done.  It is sad, I wish it wasn't the case and hope that one day it will change. Unfortunately in the last decade it has gotten worse, and I only see an increase in such waste in the future.

I am a veterinarian and not a physician, but yes to all of this. In fact, I was going to say a lot of this last night before getting distracted and forgetting to post.

Rest & NSAIDs are the fix for a lot of problems. In my patients (admittedly, patients of the four-legged variety), it often takes much longer than people think. I know that when I've had various injuries/issues in the past (mostly running-related... I've finally acknowledged that I am just NOT one of those meant to run, so I stick to biking, Zumba, and yoga instead), I tend to start getting antsy and annoyed after just a few weeks.  In reality, though, it often takes a few months for things to work themselves out.

I see a lot of clients who either a) bring their dogs in for second opinions when a single visit their old doc didn't fix it, or b) come in once a year for the same problem and don't get why last year's visit didn't fix it. In reality, you need to pick a doctor and stick with them all the way through their course of treatment. Keep returning for rechecks as recommended or as needed, because there's always a sequence of events to try for various issues. You have to follow through to get through that whole sequence. Once the doc has tried everything and run out of ideas, accept referral. Starting over with every single visit isn't helping your situation at all because you're starting at the beginning of the sequence every time.

And yes to paperwork. Veterinary medicine paperwork is nothing like human medicine paperwork, but every 10 minutes that I spend in the room tends to require at least another 15-20 minutes of behind-the-scenes work (collecting & analyzing labwork, writing up records, scheduling rechecks, making a follow-up call etc).

[scottish]

I get sore knees.   Usually it's patella-femoral syndrome.   In my case it happens when either I have a muscle imbalance in my quads or tight muscles in my quads, both of which pull the patella a little bit out of alignment.

Treatment was strength work (squats in particular) and flexibility work (the couch stretch is a good one).

But I don't think I ever found a doctor or PT that was able to completely figure out the problem.   I received advise from a sports-medicine doctor and 2 PTs and eventually figured it out.

Keep working at it.  Understand your knee mechanics and what can go wrong.   Read the 'Supple Leopard' book.

[socalteacher]

I was a runner most of my life. At 26 I did something bad to my knee. Did the whole Dr/PT thing over and over and never got anywhere. I quit running. At 34 I decided to give it one more shot to figure it out. Got an MRI and diagnosed a torn meniscus. A year and some change later I am running again! I wish I would have pushed for that MRI at 26.

[Papa Mustache]

A large part of the problem is that I can't seem to get a damn appointment within 2 weeks.  The cycle usually goes like this:

(1) I miss running, so I head out for a run
(2) Pain starts ~5 minutes in, so I stop, walk home and call doctor
(3) Can't get an appointment for 2 weeks, so I wait while not running
(4) After two weeks off, I've got no pain, so the doctor rolls his eyes when he sees me, tells me to "ease into it"
(5) I go for another run and have pain within 5 minutes and just say "fuck it, I'm not spending another $300", so I wait 6 months and then I start back at step (1)

I'm pretty sure its some kind of tendinitis, and I've had PT in the past for my Achilles and my IT band and it worked pretty well.  I just need a diagnosis it think.  I wonder if I need an MRI?  How much does a damn MRI cost?

Sounds like you need to run to your appts..;;

[rothwem]

  Read the 'Supple Leopard' book.

Ha, I actually have. My posture is way better than before but I still get knee pain when I run.  I think it would be interesting to meet Kelly Starrett, I'm sure I've got more movement disfunction than I could ever self-diagnose. 

[The Happy Philosopher]

I would seek out a good sports med doc for an evaluation, someone who only does sports injuries. Some other suggestions:

1. New shoes. When my shoes get high mileage I often feel it in my knees.
2. Tight calf muscles. Try torturing them with a foam roller, it may help mechanics at the knees.
3. Running coach. Find a professional to watch you run to see if you are doing anything egregious.
4. Weak glutes. Every runner has weak glutes, and this can cause problems. 

Good luck.

[RedmondStash]

OP, you could also ask your friends to recommend a good PT, and then call them directly. I did have a diagnosis the first time I went to my PT for a knee problem, but when I hurt my back a year later, I just went directly to them. They ask if there's a referral partly for insurance purposes; some insurance only covers you if you have a specific referral. But mine doesn't, and I never had any specific doctor's diagnosis when I went for PT.

Good luck. And maybe try a cardio exercise besides running, like biking or an elliptical trainer. I know it's not the same, but it sounds like running is not your friend right now.

[rothwem]

OP, you could also ask your friends to recommend a good PT, and then call them directly. I did have a diagnosis the first time I went to my PT for a knee problem, but when I hurt my back a year later, I just went directly to them. They ask if there's a referral partly for insurance purposes; some insurance only covers you if you have a specific referral. But mine doesn't, and I never had any specific doctor's diagnosis when I went for PT.

Good luck. And maybe try a cardio exercise besides running, like biking or an elliptical trainer. I know it's not the same, but it sounds like running is not your friend right now.

Yea, I would like some sort of diagnosis for my knee...I'm not really sure exactly what's wrong.  If they PT doesn't know, then they'll be just shooting in the dark.  The analogy they gave me was that it would be like if your car died and you just started replacing parts at random without trying to figure out what's actually broken.  It makes sense, I've just got to figure out a way to get a diagnosis. 

And yea, I ride bikes a lot since I can't run.  I raced bikes in college and for a couple years after.  I like cycling a lot, but I hate the "gear trap" where you have to keep buying shit to make a bicycle function correctly.  Mountain bikes are especially bad, if its not a cut tire, its a broken chain, a broken spoke, a stripped freehub, a loose cassette, or whatever. 

With running, its you and a pair of running shoes and a pair of $20 shorts.

[RedmondStash]

OP, you could also ask your friends to recommend a good PT, and then call them directly. I did have a diagnosis the first time I went to my PT for a knee problem, but when I hurt my back a year later, I just went directly to them. They ask if there's a referral partly for insurance purposes; some insurance only covers you if you have a specific referral. But mine doesn't, and I never had any specific doctor's diagnosis when I went for PT.

Good luck. And maybe try a cardio exercise besides running, like biking or an elliptical trainer. I know it's not the same, but it sounds like running is not your friend right now.

Yea, I would like some sort of diagnosis for my knee...I'm not really sure exactly what's wrong.  If they PT doesn't know, then they'll be just shooting in the dark.  The analogy they gave me was that it would be like if your car died and you just started replacing parts at random without trying to figure out what's actually broken.  It makes sense, I've just got to figure out a way to get a diagnosis. 

And yea, I ride bikes a lot since I can't run.  I raced bikes in college and for a couple years after.  I like cycling a lot, but I hate the "gear trap" where you have to keep buying shit to make a bicycle function correctly.  Mountain bikes are especially bad, if its not a cut tire, its a broken chain, a broken spoke, a stripped freehub, a loose cassette, or whatever. 

With running, its you and a pair of running shoes and a pair of $20 shorts.

When my PT assessed both my injuries (knee and back, at different times), they essentially gave me diagnoses, which they then used to help me improve substantially. My GP wasn't equipped to do so and didn't try.

If you haven't had luck with intermediaries (doctors), you might have more luck going straight to the source (PT). But you have to find a good PT. If you're an athlete, you likely know other athletes; one of them must have a recommendation for a good PT.

[DocMcStuffins]

Joint problem = rheumatologist (the best doctors by the way!!!!!)  and orthopeadic surgeon.  You have to understand alot about the knee to help the problem which most primary physicians don't.  Not a knock on them as they have to understand something about alot of subjects.  It is like you go to a local personal tax accountant when you are a major company that needs a corporate accountant or for all of you engineers out there, its like going to a chemical engineer when you need a environmental engineer for a project. 

[RangerOne]

The first thing they should have done is referred you to a specialist so they could determine if a scan was necessary to see if your knee is damaged in any way that can only be fixed by surgery. Then they can let you decide between PT, surgery if necessary and or surgery + PT. If your hospital simply sat you down with a general practitioner and they told you to wait and see if it gets better than is pretty bad but not all doctors are good or helpful.

As others have said time to look up a specialist covered by your insurance on your own time. And also reconsider your primary care provider if that's an option.

[jeninco]

Gotta say, for sports injuries I go straight to the PT. He generally tell me if it's an inflamed ligament or a strained muscle (it's generally one or the other, on my, and I can often tell already) and he'll fix it. Hurts like hell, and two days later it's better. Ask around: the professional athletes in your town have some place they go where the PT doesn't say "first stay off it for 4 weeks." Go see that person.

Note: Insurance doesn't pay, I do. My experience is that my kinds of injuries are fixed in two visits, max. If he did tell me to stay off it, I would, but that hasn't happened yet (>5 visits, each about 2 years apart).

[vern]