Anyone else have to deal with jealous friends/neighbors since FIRE?

[wildatheart]

I FIRE'd 3/21/2019 at 53 and have kept that fact pretty stealthy from my neighbors, but a few know.
Perhaps it is just a reflection of the times, but I'm experiencing a good deal of "extra" judgment from some family and "friends".
Some behind-my-back talk about "he must have won the lottery" or, "no way he earned that" and some are even mis-remembering how much schooling I went to and where I worked to suit their need to somehow demonize me.
I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced others having a hard time with being happy for your financial freedom and the hard work it took you to get there.
Myself, I was living out of my car and showering in college athletic locker rooms at one point but earned and saved and worked my way to FIRE.
Why can't people just be happy for one another's achievements?

[Metalcat]

What kind of place do you live that you are surrounded by such unpleasant people. And can you move?

[meandmyfamily]

That is awful!  I would be proud of you if you were my neighbor.  I don't understand why some people can't be happy for others in situations better than theirs.  Another reason I guess to be careful who you tell.  My Dad retired early and never had comments like that.  I am sorry that your neighbors are nasty.

[Frankies Girl]

If you did tell anyone and aren't doing it in the form of: I worked hard, saved and invested well, and got lucky that things worked out so I could retire early then they likely see it as a form of bragging and you may just need to stop bringing it up. People that aren't any of those things (hard worker, frugal/saver, lucky) tend to be negative against those that are. Sad fact of life that a large portion of people are pretty angry if someone else makes good off of hard work and/or luck.

Otherwise I can't imagine most people notice what you're doing. We live in a society that allows great number of people to work from home or maintain unconventional working hours/schedules. Tell people you're a consultant or freelancing or working from home in some capacity if they can't handle the truth.

If someone I was friends with or related to made it a common interaction to say nasty things about me being retired, I'd simply enforce some boundaries with them or stop interacting with them if they were unable to be decent and respectful. You don't have to put up with crap from anyone, and you shouldn't have to ask them to stop being rude and tell them the consequences if they don't more than once.

You're saying that many people you are close to make every interaction with you some sort of you're a LIAR! merry-go-round and they gossip about you constantly over the last two years since you FIREd in early 2019? That is ... bizarre. I would think all of these people are both mentally ill and also lead the most boringest lives EVER if your life/work history is a thing that is still being discussed every time you see them or they see you. I would have great fun in point this out if they persisted bringing it up at this point and laughing at them being so very obsessed with me.

If I were also so inclined to take the humorous route, I'd start telling the that they're totally right and I actually am still working, but as a researcher for a secret agency or I am now the CEO for a company that makes flying cars or invisibility cloaks or designer shoes for cats, or some other silly thing because they obviously need something more exciting to discuss.

But if you're more serious, then the solution is to ignore for the most part and otherwise call them out on any direct BS and tell them that was rude/untrue and ask them to stop saying these things. If it's gossip that is passed on to you by another person, tell them you are saddened by this and ask them to stop telling you what that person(s) said, and that you don't want all that negativity in your life. Shut it down, and refuse to entertain this crap. If they can't stop, then seek the company of others that aren't so negative and judgemental.

Friends can be made elsewhere, and family is not vital to have in your life if they do nothing but hurt you.

[FINate]

With friends like these who needs enemies, right?

Talking behind someone's back is very passive aggressive. The best way to deal with passive aggressive behavior is open and transparent confrontation. Invite them to coffee or a walk or whatever makes sense with COVID, and press them on in. Just make sure it's in person.

Be factual, don't accuse, and give them the option to either own or deny it. Something like "I heard that you said such and such about me, is that true?"

Expect pressure to reveal your source, so decide in advance if you're able/willing to give this info (depends on the situation).

They may deny it, which may be a lie, but I guarantee the discomfort/awkwardness will mean they think twice about what they're saying behind your back.

If they own it (or perhaps, clarify what they said) then you have a great opportunity for open discussion.

This is all terribly unpleasant, but worth it for true relationship. Put another way, if it's not worth the effort then are they really a loved one? You can't please everyone, so if they aren't really close and you don't know them well then it's probably best just to ignore them and move on.

[John Galt incarnate!]

I FIRE'd 3/21/2019 at 53 and have kept that fact pretty stealthy from my neighbors, but a few know.
Perhaps it is just a reflection of the times, but I'm experiencing a good deal of "extra" judgment from some family and "friends".
Some behind-my-back talk about "he must have won the lottery" or, "no way he earned that" and some are even mis-remembering how much schooling I went to and where I worked to suit their need to somehow demonize me.
I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced others having a hard time with being happy for your financial freedom and the hard work it took you to get there.
Myself, I was living out of my car and showering in college athletic locker rooms at one point but earned and saved and worked my way to FIRE.
Why can't people just be happy for one another's achievements?

I used to live a small town in which I used a  local bank for most of my financial transactions.

Eventually all the tellers came to know  that I was FIREd.

One day I was in the local supermarket in an aisle by myself when J., one of the  tellers, entered the aisle at the other end.

As soon as she saw me her mien changed.

 No longer was she a nonchalant shopper; she was furious and viscerally resentful.

She said to me  "Oh, you have to eat too."

Ever since, when I meet people,  I  am very guarded about my financial/FIREd status.

None of my friends are jealous of my FIREtirement.

In fact,  just 1/2 hour ago I was  talking  to one of my much older friends and he started talking about his retirement (not FIREd),  compared his to mine, and said it "was great" that I retired long before he did.

As to jealous neighbors, way up here in the mountains the homes are  very far apart so neighbors aren't in everyday, close  contact with each other like they are in suburbs or densely populated cities.

Busybodies are far and few between.

[Habilis]

My guess is that they are expressing their own discomfort/pain/fear, certainly not in the most productive way: as a judgment of you. My advice would be to not believe what they say or what you think they think. One option is to connect with them, ask them about their lives, guess what they are feeling and needing. Perhaps they are afraid because they have a need for financial security for their family. Who knows, you might be able to help in a way that feels good to you, even if it is just being with them and helping them get in touch with what is really going on. If you are not up for this there is nothing wrong with that either, but above all I would recommend not believing what they say or think. That is up to you and under your control. Live your best life and contribute in the ways that feel good to you.

[tipster350]

As I am coming up on retirement in a few months, I have been giving this a lot of thought. I will be 60 at time of retirement, ancient for this site but early for the area and general population.

I won't be sharing it with my neighbors. They all know I work from home, have been long before covid, so my being home won't be a clue. I live in a blue collar neighborhood and try not to stand out in any way. While it is a safe neighborhood, I don't want anyone thinking I might have a bunch of valuables in my home, nor do I want to invite envy. My next door neighbor, who is a good neighbor when it comes to being considerate and generous with neighborly help, is also jealous of my ability to pay for services that she has to do herself, and jealous of my work from home arrangement. I don't want to invite anymore off hand comments about how she has to mow her own lawn etc. It's just not a place we need to go and I don't want her opening up conversation that I would have to shut down about how I have the assets.

I have a few acquaintances I'll probably keep mum to as well. One in particular is a very nice but needy person who will start extending lots of invitations and such if they think I have time to spare. I want them in my life but only on the periphery, and it will be easier to not give an opening to someone who has issues with boundaries.

For any close family or friends, I will be honest and open. They're not the type of people who would be jealous or resentful, or they wouldn't be in my inner circle.

[BikeFanatic]

Wild at heart,

I feel for you, I myself just quit and  am FI, but I feel uncomfortable telling other people the truth who are not of retirement age.
I am close to retirement age 56 Years old, but I worry that others will be jealous of me and I do not want to brag. I feel my acquaintances are much less well off for many reasons, and I too would feel jealous if I was in their shoes. I did tell  my friends at work and they were happy for me but also admittedly a tad envious.
At this time I am telling people I am semi retired and may look for a part time job in the future. Which is possible, I have opportunity to do whatever I want  and at this moment I just want to chill a while.

[cool7hand]

Perhaps you might ask yourself why you care as much as you do what other people think. They clearly aren't happy people. Don't you think they just wish that they could find a way to be like you?

[Metalcat]

Perhaps you might ask yourself why you care as much as you do what other people think. They clearly aren't happy people. Don't you think they just wish that they could find a way to be like you?

That's kind of what I'm wondering.

Is this a case of being overly concerned about the perceptions of others or is this a case of living somewhere where it's normal for people to be so overtly, rudely negative towards their friends and neighbours?

Where I live, I can't imagine this being an issue. I just can't fathom my friends, family, and neighbours having such pointless ill will over nothing.

So that's why I'm wondering, if it really is that OP is living surrounded by such negative people, then seriously, why not move? If there's no job to stay for any more, why live somewhere so awful?

If that's not it, and it's more of a perception thing, then a bit of counselling can go a long way to resolving that kind of anxious thinking.

Either way, I would actively do something about it. I wouldn't be okay just living like that.

[Mr. Green]

Most folks play the comparison game vigorously, whether it's always conscious or not. Most folks also hold the idea of retirement up on a pedestal because it represents the greener grass on the other side of their harried lives, full of things they don't like or simply tolerate, but don't think they have the power to do anything about.

Your early retirement to them is a nasty reminder that whatever it is they're doing, you did a lot better, in that layman's view of wanting to be retired as a means of having the power to exorcise all the negative parts of their daily lives. So you suddenly represent their failure to do better in their mind's eye of comparison. Since they feel powerless to help themselves, it is easier to tell themselves stories about how and why you "made it" than it is for them to realize they have all the power over their own lives, but it may also require making choices and/or sacrifices they don't wait to or are afraid to.

[ctuser1]

Why tell your neighbors that you are RE? If anyone directly asks, just tell them that you are now a project based part-time consultant and work from home.

You do manage your own portfolio - that is close enough to being a "consultant". And you "work" - maybe for half an hour a year for rebalancing - while doing so.

A bit of white lie never hurt anybody.

Majority of the population do not think of RE as an option, but as a fantastical thing that some of the moneyed elites dabble in. Why run up against the cultural stereotypes of not-close-enough-to-disclose acquaintances?

Close friends and blood are a different matter altogether. But then your plan to RE and the options you exercised to achieve FI shouldn't be a surprise to them in the first place.

[Metalcat]

Most folks play the comparison game vigorously, whether it's always conscious or not. Most folks also hold the idea of retirement up on a pedestal because it represents the greener grass on the other side of their harried lives, full of things they don't like or simply tolerate, but don't think they have the power to do anything about.

Your early retirement to them is a nasty reminder that whatever it is they're doing, you did a lot better, in that layman's view of wanting to be retired as a means of having the power to exorcise all the negative parts of their daily lives. So you suddenly represent their failure to do better in their mind's eye of comparison. Since they feel powerless to help themselves, it is easier to tell themselves stories about how and why you "made it" than it is for them to realize they have all the power over their own lives, but it may also require making choices and/or sacrifices they don't wait to or are afraid to.

Even if this assessment of people is true, it doesn't mean someone has to exist in the world perpetually feeling like everyone around them is incapable of coping with anyone being successful or happy.

I've often been more successful, more financially stable, and have a generally "better" appearing life than a lot of people and I don't walk around feeling like I can't just be myself or else everyone else will be miserable to me.

Sure, people make comments and have some envious reactions, but those are generally short lived and pretty easy to get past because I don't take them very seriously.

Whenever I get an eye roll and a "must be nice", I laugh and say "yeah, it is nice" and if I feel like moving past it I'll say "everything requires trade offs though, I make a lot of decisions that other people wouldn't be happy with"

I generally give people the benefit of the doubt that their reactions are rather superficial and most of the time it turns out to be true.

I'm open to believing that some communities are more hateful than others and less accepting of deviations from highly prescriptive "norms", but I don't for a second believe that that generalizes to most places. I think in most places I've ever been, someone would be able to retire at 53 with no significant social impact.

Stupid comments here and there? Yes, but significant impact on their ability to live freely and comfortably within their community? No. I would be very surprised.

[FINate]

Why tell your neighbors that you are RE? If anyone directly asks, just tell them that you are now a project based part-time consultant and work from home.

You do manage your own portfolio - that is close enough to being a "consultant". And you "work" - maybe for half an hour a year for rebalancing - while doing so.

A bit of white lie never hurt anybody.

Majority of the population do not think of RE as an option, but as a fantastical thing that some of the moneyed elites dabble in. Why run up against the cultural stereotypes of not-close-enough-to-disclose acquaintances?

Close friends and blood are a different matter altogether. But then your plan to RE and the options you exercised to achieve FI shouldn't be a surprise to them in the first place.

I want to know, and be known by, my neighbors. Honesty is one of the foundations of community so I'm not comfortable misleading my neighbors about FIRE. Would rather risk being disliked than dishonest.

[wildatheart]

Thanks to all who participated. You have given me some great advice and perspective. Of all the virtual communities I've been apart of this one is the most rational, well-meaning and helpful.

[Mr. Green]

@Malcat Most of us are very self-centered so I wouldn't expect one's perceived status as "more whatever the other person feels deficient in" to occupy that other person's mind once out of sight. The grocery store example mentioned upthread is a good example. I am surprised that the OP is dealing with this from people who know them. Usually, it's people you don't really know, who to them you are more of an object than a person, where those feelings of jealousy or resentment impact their attitude toward you. I've experienced this many times, but not from anyone close to me.

[Metalcat]

@Malcat Most of us are very self-centered so I wouldn't expect one's perceived status as "more whatever the other person feels deficient in" to occupy that other person's mind once out of sight. The grocery store example mentioned upthread is a good example. I am surprised that the OP is dealing with this from people who know them. Usually, it's people you don't really know, who to them you are more of an object than a person, where those feelings of jealousy or resentment impact their attitude toward you. I've experienced this many times, but not from anyone close to me.

Precisely.

I just don't give much thought or weight to the superficial things people say and do, so I really don't take these things all that seriously.

That said, when it's daily and unrelenting because of a systemic social issue, then it can be exhausting.

But you're right, if OP is facing this as a real and substantial issue among people who actually know them, then that's a red flag for me about the people their surrounding themselves with.

[K_in_the_kitchen]

When my brother chose early retirement (not FIRE -- not even close and there's a coda to his story) from his pensioned job (public transformation, my dad's response was somewhere between derisive and hateful.  My dad had only recently found a job after losing a business and spending nearly a year unemployed.  I could tell that part of his response was pure jealousy.  How could this mess up of a kid end up better off than his dad?  (Longer story here is that my dad adopted all of us and was younger than my mom, so the age difference between him and my oldest brother is small.)  How could someone who hadn't -- according to my dad's rules -- worked hard end up with a pension more than 4X my dad's social security benefit (which he took early)?  It flew in the face of everything my dad values.  My dad considered the retirement lazy.

The coda, of course, is that my brother very quickly realized he was going to have to get another job.  He hadn't considered the price of medical insurance, and he hadn't saved a penny toward retirement on his own, nor did he have any savings at all -- indeed, he and his wife are in debt and have never managed their finances well.

When DH retires early (I'm retired since I didn't go back to work after staying home full time with our kids) we may very well keep it quiet.  There's no point sharing news with friends and family members who are going to be jealous and say snarky things.  I also don't want family members on his side thinking his retirement means he's free to become their personal handyman (which is a joke because we hire people to do that kind of work -- we know where our skills lay).  And there's a certain contingent that will think our FIRE means we have money to hand out left and right, which won't be true since the retirement savings will need to cover the rest of our lives.

[Mr. Green]

All of this really comes down to a very simple thing. Most people treat life like sliding scale categories but all within the box of an ecosystem they've built for themselves. When an example comes along that is outside of that box and they perceive it to be better (the father/son retirement story is another great example), they're suddenly confronted with the fact that there was another way that at first glance makes their life look worse. If it's something they have really strong emotions about in their own life (not being a stay at home parent, job instability, etc.) they may have an incredibly defensive reaction to that, which can also include anger and jealousy.

This can especially be the case if the other person thinks their life is more put together than another's. "WHAT? Bob and Nancy are both stay at home parents!?" They must have money from daddy or something." When maybe it's more like Bob and Nancy have one car, no subscription services, no car payments, etc. and the offended party has daycare bills, and two car payments, and yada yada yada.

The point being that this typically comes from a place in the offended person"s own life where they're very unhappy about something.

[clarkfan1979]

I'm not FIRE, but my wife and I travel quite a bit. We just got done with 18 nights in Hawaii in December and 8 nights in Florida for January. We don't advertise our travel, but when people ask, we are honest. It's mostly positive, but there are a few negative reviews. I think it's actually gotten a little worse over the past 12 months with politics taking a center stage. I teach community college, so people make comments about their taxes paying for my vacations. After health insurance, taxes and mandatory retirement contributions, I make $3,000/month. That's not really enough for an extravagant lifestyle. In reality, our real estate income pays for travel and credit card points.

[Linea_Norway]

I'm not FIRE, but my wife and I travel quite a bit. We just got done with 18 nights in Hawaii in December and 8 nights in Florida for January. We don't advertise our travel, but when people ask, we are honest. It's mostly positive, but there are a few negative reviews. I think it's actually gotten a little worse over the past 12 months with politics taking a center stage. I teach community college, so people make comments about their taxes paying for my vacations. After health insurance, taxes and mandatory retirement contributions, I make $3,000/month. That's not really enough for an extravagant lifestyle. In reality, our real estate income pays for travel and credit card points.

Those people don't think teachers may use their earnings as they see fit? And how many percent of the population is paid by taxes? That might be a good amount. Good for you that you manage your money so well that you can prioritize what is important in your life.