Author Topic: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?  (Read 12648 times)

shawndoggy

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2017, 06:37:11 AM »
So it is OK to leave money to people who don't need it?

While I understand where you are coming from, it's not a huge leap to then ask whether it's OK for people to HAVE money who don't need it.  Is there a certain level of money that's OK to have and then anything in excess is wealth hoarding and aristocratic?  To the vast majority of people living and breathing on this planet right now, the average mustachian's savings is an unachievable sum.  Is it OK for you to have your stache when they have nothing?

So long as we have private property and capitalism (those also being strong tenets of Mustachianism), people are gonna get to do whatever the F they want with their $$$ as long as it's legal.  There's a strong evolutionary / biological imperative to favor our offspring over all others.  So the fact that humans give their wealth to their children shouldn't be surprising. 

If you think hard enough about it, the mere existence of the estate tax is pretty surprising and a very progressive use of the power of the state against the sort of concentration of wealth that many here seem to be arguing against.  We can debate the threshold where the tax kicks in (and I think I agree it's certainly high enough already), but the fact that the state does see fit to take away 40% of the deceased's wealth over and above that threshold is a pretty impressive exercise of state power to "spread the wealth around."

libertarian4321

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2017, 07:05:43 AM »
I'm glad I don't have any kids.  That way, they won't be disappointed when I give them everything they deserve (NOTHING).

We are going to leave it to charity, like Buffet and others.  Lot's of dogs will eat well when we die.

lexde

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2017, 07:21:47 AM »
I mean, you could always create a spendthrift legacy trust where your assets would be disbursed monthly/annually at either a set amount, percentage, or based on something else like giving them the equivalent of minimum wage just to supplement income and not replace it. Depending on the extent of the trust res, you may want to have a flexible spendthrift provision to provide for future inflation etc. if the disbursements will not outpace expected growth.


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El_Viajero

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2017, 08:18:41 AM »
I do not believe this. Some people will spend all the money they have, whether it's a lot or a little (you don't need to be rich to do this). It's a mentality thing. There are many wealthy people who do not hold a formal job, who do good in the world. Who volunteer. Who become scholars. Who take on causes that the rest of us are too busy earning a living to take on.  There are people doing good in the world who don't get paid by a singular entity, but subsist on grants… Money given to them to pursue their life's work. Work that could benefit society as a whole. We have swerved too far onto the capitalistic side, where we are making things and valuing things based on what they can do for our economy, rather than what they can do for us, the world.

 I do not know your family, so I'm not saying this to argue for one way or the other, not that it is my place anyway. I just want to challenge your belief that having to work, means you would appreciate things more. People, depending on their character, will work whether they have to or not. As a species we are driven to. Some of our modern culture and habits have tempered that, but there are plenty of can doers still out there. In fact, I truly believe I would be more busy if I didn't have to work. I'm not some genius, but given the chance I would like to think that I would be able to think of ways to solve problems, in my family, in my own community, and other parts of the world. Many of these foundations and charities that you want to donate to are started by a wealthy family, who's money was passed down generation by generation.

This is a valuable perspective with which I agree even though you were providing a counterpoint to my comment :-).

I don't actually value human activities solely based on what they can do for the economy, and that's certainly not the sort of notion I want my child to latch onto as he grows up. I regret that my comment was interpreted that way. That's actually a very libertarian view of the world to which I don't subscribe.

My point is that there is value in forging your own way and earning the things you have. For me, money was, for better or worse, the primary motivation to build my business because I didn't have any money and I needed some. That said, it is absolutely true that people can find other sources of motivation to pursue their dreams and engage in meaningful work – and that's fantastic. In fact, it's PREFERABLE.

I simply don't want to risk spoiling my child to the point where he rejects the opportunity (consciously or unconsciously) to go do great things. Yes, I plan to "raise him right" so that money won't spoil him one way or the other; however, I also recognize that some aspects of his personality and, in particular, his choices are beyond my control.

Our control over our children's future outlook is more limited than we parents would like to believe. For example, the family who lived across the street from us when I was growing up had two daughters. They had the same parents and went to the same schools and lived in the same neighborhood and had the same advantages. One of the daughters went to college and eventually earned a PhD. The other dropped out of high school, became a teenage mom and a drug addict, and did prison time. At one point, her parents bought her and her SO a house to help them get back on their feet while she was recovering from addiction. They took out a second mortgage and blew the money on drugs. True story.

This is anecdotal and probably represents the extreme end of a bell curve, but I think the point still stands.

I suppose it's good that we can modify our wills after our kids grow up and we're sure they're not going to let an inheritance spoil them. But that doesn't change the fact that more worthy recipients (people who never had a chance to succeed) are out there and that the inheritance would do more good for them than for our own children.

El_Viajero

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2017, 08:44:57 AM »
I love my child too much to jerk him out of his rightful inheritance

I just hope those that slap their kids in the faces like this are not so haughty they phone their kids when they need help in old age.
Even if it is just for advice, or to let their kids know their  bodies are falling apart. Such a sad thread

Whew! Lots going on here. Implications are:

1. I don't love my child enough.
2. He has a right to the money I earned.
3. Not giving my child (an adult "child," mind you, who is presumably doing ok all by himself) the money I earned is tantamount to slapping him in the face.
4. Not giving the child the money I earned means I've forfeited the right to call my son and complain about my aches and pains.

My position from the outset here (implied but not stated explicitly) is that my wealth could likely alleviate human suffering were it to go to the right people/causes/organizations. Assuming my child is not suffering (and I hope he isn't because I do love him), it seems that a more ethical approach would be to direct those funds towards people who are, in fact, suffering. In other words, I'd make an estate planning decision based on the misery-reduction potential of my wealth.

I don't think that proceeding in this manner is "sad."

ixtap

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2017, 09:09:52 AM »
I'm glad I don't have any kids.  That way, they won't be disappointed when I give them everything they deserve (NOTHING).

We are going to leave it to charity, like Buffet and others.  Lot's of dogs will eat well when we die.

I told my parents about this thread. There was one charity in particular that popped out of my mother's mouth as soon as the subject came up, so now I know. Gives us something better than usual to talk to the in laws about over the holidays. I can see it now, a racist rant starts and we divert the conversation to favorite charities.

iris lily

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2017, 09:40:42 AM »
Last year we went through the legal Excercisee of setting up a trust for our assets, and are still working to get them all re titled into the trust. anyway.

We carefully divided all of our assets amoung a few relatives, a couple of friends, and a few charitable organizations.

A year later after seeing everythng involved, I would just dump it into two or three charitable organizations and leave the humans out of it.

But we really are doing this for our unexpected death. In normal times we will spend it down and Die Broke.

Holocene

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2017, 09:44:16 AM »
I love my child too much to jerk him out of his rightful inheritance


I just hope those that slap their kids in the faces like this are not so haughty they phone their kids when they need help in old age.
Even if it is just for advice, or to let their kids know their  bodies are falling apart. Such a sad thread

And why is it his right to inherit from you?  I understand many parents wanting to leave money for their children in hopes of making their lives easier and happier.  I don't have a problem with that.  But it is in no way that child's right to receive the money, as long as they are an adult anyway.  I don't have any children.  But looking at it from the receiving side, I wouldn't be too happy with the kind of person I was if I was banking on an inheritance from my parents and thought of it as a slap in the face if I didn't receive one.  It is not my money and I don't have a right to say what they should do with it.  I'd be pretty proud of my parents if they decided to donate their wealth to charity to try and help those who are much worse off than me.  And I'd still be by their side in their old age supporting them, no matter what they decided.  To think you could only count on your kids to support you as you age if you plan on leaving them money is pretty sad and horrifying to me.  I think that would be a slap in the face to my parents who have already devoted so much time and resources to raise me.

MrsPete

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2017, 03:17:06 PM »
Must we all pull ourselves up by the bootstraps in the hardest manner possible?  I thought the whole point of this site was to minimize time spent slaving away in office jobs when more time could be spent with family.  Is your own time the only one that matters?  I plan to leave all my stash to my children.
This is the comment closest to my own opinions. 

I "pulled myself up", and it was rough; honestly, looking back, I don't know how I made it through some points -- and some parts were shear luck (i.e., I was never robbed or attacked while living in unsafe places).  My children have certainly not been raised with a silver spoon, but they've had it easier than I did:  they've never worried about their college tuition and books, and they've never been hungry.  Comparing them in their early 20s to me back then ... they're better prepared for the world, and they are better people.  They will go further in the world. 

I can't imagine not giving them the bulk of my money to help them continue their lives /enrich the lives of my grandchildren.  Just because they CAN support themselves doesn't mean they wouldn't appreciate (and use well) a last gift from their parents. 

I don't understand why some people won't spend money because they "want to leave it for the kids". We don't have kids but we have nieces and nephews and we intend to spend every last dollar if we need to.
I'm not talking about going without so that the kids can have an inheritance; I don't think anyone's talking about that.  We intend to enjoy our retirement years and be well prepared for emergencies or illnesses that may come ... but if our plans flow as expected, we may actually die with more money than we have on the day we retire. 

I believe it wrecks children if they receive the money at too young an age. If they are mature in their 30s and 40s--and have careers and have earned money--then I think it's safer to leave them some at that age. With a trust, you can have them receive part at, say, age 30 with other payments when you direct--maybe 35 and 40, for instance.

The answer depends, in part, upon the maturity level of your child.

In general, I think it works well for parents to educate their children about money. While you do not have to tell them how much you have, you can show them how a mortgage works or talk about banks and loans (and the good and bad of loans) and other such topics so they learn bit by bit over time.
My dear husband pointed out to me once that I am now too old to die young.  The likelihood is that I'll be around another 50 years, and my children will not inherit until they are retired themselves.  Will this happen?  Obviously, I don't know. 

At this point, our kids are young 20s, just starting out in the world.  The irony is that if we were to die tomorrow, they would inherit all our retirement money -- they would be rich at a young age.  They're both good with money but still moderately inexperienced.  In addition to our will, we've written out a lengthy document, which gives them instructions on our funeral wishes and how to dispose of our worldly goods ... but also suggestions on how to use the money most wisely.  If, as expected, we live 'til they themselves are full-fledged adults, we will change this document over the years -- at some point we might write in that we'd want them to use a portion of any inheritance to cover our future grandchildren's education. 


« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 03:19:14 PM by MrsPete »

Leisured

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2017, 12:10:30 AM »

I agree with MMMarbleHeader: ‘One thing that always impressed me about the old money crowd that while clearly money didn't matter they were all expected to blaze their own trail. And what came out of that was the ability to truly follow their dreams. Many of them are doing great things for this world and the family money sure helped enable that. Instead of bagging groceries in the summer they were able to travel and gain an understanding of the world.’

And from Watchmaker: ‘I do not think tying our worth as humans to our ability to earn money is a healthy choice.’

And from GnomeErcy: ‘Ultimately if I were to raise a decent human being I would have no hesitation of passing any of my wealth down to them.’

Some have commented on the growing aristocracy of inherited wealth. In the US, the term ‘aristocracy’ is replaced with the term ‘patrician’ by analogy with Republican Rome of ancient times. We have all inherited a vast amount of scientific and technical knowledge from our forebears. Look back to the way of life 200 years ago, or ten thousand. We did not create this technical knowledge; we inherited it.

As some posters have pointed out, there is a vast difference between inheriting a million dollars and inheriting a billion. On other forums, posters have pointed out that billionaires have the power, if they choose, to influence politics. We are not talking about such enormous wealth.

Is inherited wealth a threat or an opportunity?


Caoineag

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #60 on: December 12, 2017, 07:53:03 AM »
Definitely an interesting thread. No kids but I definitely fall into the uncomfortable about inheritances category. That said, I think the most valuable impact of money is when a person is first starting out, paying for schooling, helping them get established in a new area, etc. And clearly I have no problem spending my money to do exactly that as I have already sponsored two people at the getting started stage of life. Together they probably cost me $20k and while financially they both still don't make the best decisions, they actually have the ability to have careers and can build a better life for themselves than they otherwise would have had. If I had kids, I would want to pay for their schooling and their initial start in life. But I don't want to inherit money from either set of parents because I don't need it. I want them both to use it to live their own life. So that probably influences me on wanting to leave my own money to charity. That said, I plan on helping more people along the way because I like seeing people succeed and sometimes people just need a little help getting started.

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #61 on: December 12, 2017, 11:08:01 AM »
Fascinating thread.

I don't have children, but I'm on the other end of the spectrum - I'm the child.

I never knew, as a child, what kind of inheritance I would have gotten, had my parents passed away before I was 22. I think it was a yearly allowance type thing until after my education was completed, and then maybe a lump sum at 25? I'm not sure though. They never discussed it with me when I was a kid - none of my business. By the time I was 22, my parents decided to make my sister and I co-executors of their wills. Still, no idea what kind of money was involved, but we were made aware of where to find the proper documents if/when the time came.

Still to this day (I'm 31), I have no idea what the amount of money looks like, but I know it's probably north of a million or two. And that is with generous donations to charities every year. I don't know if they have donations to charities included in their wills, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. My parents just retired, and I hope that they live long enough for not a penny to be left. Honestly.

I want their time, not their money.

And that last statement is important - because if it weren't true, they have made it very clear, over the course of my life, that I would get neither.

They raised me in a way that I don't need, nor do I want their money. And because of that... and ONLY because of that... they feel comfortable with passing it on to me and my sister.

Basically, my answer is: you know your child. If you trust that you've raised him/her to understand the value of a dollar, and make wise decisions if she/he were to come into this money, then you should feel comfortable passing the money along. If not, then it's your prerogative to do with it what you wish. Either way, that money is yours that you've earned, and whatever you do with it you should do with 100% certainty that it's the right decision.

My parents are my financial, and life, advisors. I talk to them about everything and anything. They know that the money they leave me, which will hopefully be in 30+ years, will go to my own children eventually. I don't factor a penny of it in my own personal calculations, nor do I ever intend to. It isn't mine. I haven't earned it. And if they change their wills later and decide that I get nothing, I will still have had the most amazing, thoughtful parents in the world. And that's the only thing that matters.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 11:15:09 AM by TravelJunkyQC »

JayhawkRacer

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Re: Anybody else uncomfortable about inheritance?
« Reply #62 on: December 12, 2017, 11:52:27 AM »
I never knew, as a child, what kind of inheritance I would have gotten...They never discussed it with me when I was a kid - none of my business.

Still to this day (I'm 31), I have no idea what the amount of money looks like...

They raised me in a way that I don't need, nor do I want their money. And because of that... and ONLY because of that... they feel comfortable with passing it on to me and my sister.

My parents raised me with the same attitude towards inheritance, but with far more detail of their financial accounts. They always showed me what was left of the mortgage and what was in my dad's TSP account. It was a good way for me to understand what those kinds of accounts meant and what savings and debt really were.