Author Topic: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?  (Read 5132 times)

evme

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any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« on: April 28, 2018, 05:04:26 PM »
I'm not getting any responses in the Post-FIRE sub-forum so re-posting here.

I recently returned from a trip to Maui and loved it so much that I am looking into the cost of living and whether it would make sense to move there. I am financially independent but work part-time 20 hours/week as I still enjoy my work and can do it from anywhere. My main concern with Maui is the high COL. I currently live on about $30,000/year (own primary residence, no mortgage) in a relatively low COL area (Southern Arizona). How can I figure out what the comparable COL would be in Maui? Also, anyone with experience moving from low COL to high COL please chime in.

HBFIRE

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2018, 07:35:52 PM »
Not sure if this helps, but I also traveled to Maui earlier this year and wondered the same.  I currently live in Orange County, Ca close to the beach (relatively HCOL).  Surprisingly, Maui was even higher than here from the rough estimated numbers I looked at.  Housing is more, food is much more (due to having to ship everything in).  Some staples at the grocery store are as much as double what you'll find in the continental US.  I believe Hawaii as a state is the highest cost of living in the US.

A lot of this depends on what type of lifestyle you're going to want (i.e. is having a roommate okay?).  Looking to purchase something or is renting okay?  etc.

Our living costs as a couple and one child (we are FI), and as permanent renters close to the beach (couple blocks) are roughly 6 K/month.  We could probably get by on about the same I'd imagine in Maui if we lower a couple expenses.  If I were single, I could likely cut that cost down to ~ 4K/month living in the same area. 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 07:46:20 PM by dustinst22 »

MM_MG

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2018, 07:44:52 PM »
There are COL calculators out there.  This on has Honolulu on it, probably close enough:  https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx

We go to Maui every year and plan to spend considerable time over there in retirement. We considered moving there, but didn't want to make the necessary adjustments to our lifestyle at the time.  Housing is the biggest cost barrier IMHO.


redbird

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2018, 10:56:05 PM »
It'd be extremely difficult to live in Hawaii on $30k/year. There's a reason multi-generation households are so common in Hawaii - it's just so expensive and people need to share the expenses.

I lived in Hawaii for 3 years, ending approximately 6 years ago. I lived on Oahu, on the cheaper leeward (ie western side - Honolulu was on the other side of the island from me). Your $30k/year would've not quite covered my rent, and certainly not my utilities or food or anything else. The place I lived in was quite cheap for Oahu at the time. I looked it up a year or so ago and the place I used to live in has been renovated and actually costs a lot more to rent now than it even did before.

Like has been mentioned, food is more expensive in Hawaii too since over 99% (Hawaii does way less agriculture now than it used to because land is so expensive) of it has to be shipped in. Expect your food bill to be at least double of whatever it is now. Some food items are more than double. I pay $2.50-ish for a gallon of milk here in the US south. In Hawaii, milk was over $7/gallon when I was there.

I love Hawaii a LOT. Honestly, I wish I could've FIRE'd there. I like the laidback lifestyle of the islands and the weather is exactly perfect, in my opinion, year-round. Unlike some, I don't care about having 4 seasons (seriously, Hawaii only has 1), so that was not a downside for me. But I would've had to work years longer to build up a much bigger stash. I was not willing to do that.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 11:12:03 PM by redbird »

englishteacheralex

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2018, 12:54:45 AM »
I've lived in Hawaii for 15 years. When I moved here in 2003, my starting salary as a public school teacher was $36k/year. Take home would have been around $30k. I worked every summer to add a couple thousand on top of that. Rented a room in a house for $650, and then upgraded to a studio apartment in Kailua for $850 for the next ten years. That was a deal I lucked into--had a great landlady who loved me and never raised my rent.

A studio in Kailua (really cool beach town on Oahu) would probably go for ~$1200/month these days. I used to spend $300-$350/month on food for myself when I was single. Costco was very important in achieving that. I never bought milk. I also never ate out. My grocery budget didn't include my household supplies budget, which was $30/month. I biked to work every day and hardly drove my car, but I did own a 1995 Corolla. I would say back then I probably was living on ~$28000/year.

These days I'm a mom with a husband and two toddlers. We own a 3/2 condo in Honolulu. It's not in the nicest neighborhood. It would rent for about what our mortgage plus HOA + property tax comes out to: $2200/month.

We now buy milk all the time. You can get it for $4.50/gallon at Costco. Our grocery budget is $700/month. Eating out budget is $100/month. I don't even want to tell you what our yearly spend is because it's insane. That's what daycare and a mortgage does. Sigh. The good news is we make a ton more money than I did back in my single days.

Maui is more expensive than Oahu. I think you could squeak it out for $30k/year? You'd probably have to rent a room in somebody's house/condo. There isn't really a bus on Maui (Oahu has a pretty good bus system), so you'd probably want a car. That might make it hard to get your expenses down to $30k/year.

I think it can be done.

That being said...I live in Hawaii because I didn't really think it through back in 2003. I was in Rochester NY, Hawaii was hiring teachers, and I thought it sounded fun. That was about the extent of my decision making process. I wound up loving my job and loving Hawaii, and the years kind of kept going by. I put down roots, made close friends, met my now-husband, and it got to where it didn't make sense to move. 

If I were on the mainland, making a decision now about a place to live, HI would not really be in the running. It's freakin' expensive and far away from everything. It's beautiful but you better really love it, because it's expensive to leave. I didn't go to the mainland...or anywhere...for my first five years there. Missed a lot of weddings and family events.

It could work. Really depends on what you're looking for.


ABK

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2018, 10:38:14 AM »
It's telling that you're not getting any response in the Post-FI subforum.

I have lived in Honolulu for the last seven years, and I think living here on $30,000 can't be done -- at least, if it can be done, you'll have to choose a life that will look nothing like the vacation that inspired you to think about moving.

Have a look at this
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/38019260/40000-salary-now-considered-very-low-income-in-honolulu-per-new-federal-guidelines,

which says that $40,000 is considered "very low income" in Honolulu. Frankly, the only people who can survive here on such a low income are those whose families have lived here for a few generations and who now live in the family house that was paid off ages ago.

My advice is stay where you are, and then take nice vacations to Hawaii.

HBFIRE

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2018, 10:53:11 AM »
One thing you may consider, and what my wife and I plan to do once our son finishes school is to travel hack via credit cards free flights, then get an AirBnB for say 1-3 months at a time.   Basically allows you to live there short term at local living costs without the usual higher prices associated with vacations.  I'd do this before moving there permanently anyway, as living in Hawaii won't be exactly as you imagine.  Many regret it and feel too isolated.  I grew up in Alaska, and there were some affluent retired Alaskans who would live in Hawaii in the winter, then back to Alaska in the summer because they needed the variety after getting "island fever".
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 10:59:51 AM by dustinst22 »

evme

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2018, 03:58:26 PM »
One thing you may consider, and what my wife and I plan to do once our son finishes school is to travel hack via credit cards free flights, then get an AirBnB for say 1-3 months at a time.   Basically allows you to live there short term at local living costs without the usual higher prices associated with vacations.  I'd do this before moving there permanently anyway, as living in Hawaii won't be exactly as you imagine.  Many regret it and feel too isolated.  I grew up in Alaska, and there were some affluent retired Alaskans who would live in Hawaii in the winter, then back to Alaska in the summer because they needed the variety after getting "island fever".

Good idea -- I was thinking of doing something like this next year -- go for one month and see how it goes whilst tracking my food and other expenses carefully.

Kierun

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2018, 01:16:27 PM »
I'd say that housing will be the biggest hurdle to living on 30k/yr so definitely pay attention to the rental market and real estate market.

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2018, 02:22:32 PM »
I lived on Oahu for 4 years (military) from 2010-2014. You can do it for not too much money if you don't mind having roommates.

I rented a room in a 4 bedroom house in Kapolei for $650/mo all utilities and internet included. Add in groceries in the $300-400 range/mo as well.

Now that rent was a few years back, so say around $850/mo + 400 for food. $1250/mo is $15,000. So you still have another $15k for transportation and the rest.

Now if you just have to have your own place, you could find a studio or a tiny 1BR for $1300-1400/mo.

Just depends what your priorities are. I believe that Hawai'i is cheaper than Cali as taxes and whatnot are much lower.

As for the rest of ya complainypants, are you Mustachians or what?

HBFIRE

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2018, 03:32:24 PM »
If OP is living on 30 K in southern AZ with a paid off mortgage (LCOLA), he has a decent standard of living imo.  I don't think he's trying to live like a starving college student.  Sure, you could camp out on the beach in a tent and live super cheap in HI if you wanted, all comes down to what kind of standard of living you want.  400/month for HI seems too low for eating decent -- groceries are very expensive there, more than double.  Health care costs, yadda yadda.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 03:37:16 PM by dustinst22 »

evme

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2018, 05:23:24 PM »
One thing that helps keep costs down in HI is if you have access to a Costco -- while there is some markup compared to mainland prices, it is still much cheaper to get most foods there.  There is one on Oahu, to the west of downtown Honolulu, and one on the Big Island, near Kona. 

Yep, and there's also a Costco in Kahului near the main airport on Maui. It actually has been there for a while -- opened in 1995.

https://www.costco.com/warehouse-locations/maui-kahului-hi-119.html

seattlecyclone

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2018, 06:03:10 PM »
Cost of housing is all relative. With how crazy Seattle has gotten in the past few years, I look at real estate listings on Maui in the rough price range my house here would sell for, and I could definitely get a bigger place if I moved there. That said, I'm not sure I'd like to live in the Hawaiian climate. Too hot for me as a year-round thing. Maybe I could be pretty happy living up the mountain a bit where it's cooler. Nice to visit though!

Socmonkey

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2018, 11:27:19 AM »
I also currently live in Southern AZ just like OP and know how far $30k can go with no mortgage and single. I spend about $36K in total expenses with a 15-year mortgage and now a wife and two kids.

Can you live in Hawai'i on $30k/yr? Absolutely.

Will your living arrangement change in Hawai'i spending only $30K per year. Absolutely.

I certainly didn't live like a starving college student. I ate plenty and lived with other single professionals trying to save some money. In fact, the place I lived in is for sale. https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Kapolei-HI/house_type/680046_zpid/45983_rid/3-_beds/5001-_price/20-_mp/pricea_sort/21.368164,-158.082743,21.365988,-158.085626_rect/18_zm/0_mmm/?

Hmm, at the current asking price if you paid 20% down, you could cover the P&I from renting the three other rooms while keeping the top floor to yourself.

Guest room with en-suite bath: $1250
Double room with shared bath: $1000
Single room with shared bath: $850

Once you live there a while you will find the cheaper places that the locals go to. Like anywhere, there are the expensive places for tourists and the cheaper local places.

Groceries are not double in price, more expensive sure, but not double. Just adjust your diet to match the prices.

If you want something in life, do what it takes to make it happen.


HBFIRE

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2018, 01:31:24 PM »
So we agree, depends on what type of lifestyle you want.

You spend the OP's budget with a family and a mortgage.  Probably a much different lifestyle.  Likely also at a totally different stage on the FI ladder and wanting to enjoy his fruits from what I can gather.  Not everyone is happy living with a bunch of roommates when they are done with the accumulation phase.  But sure, it can be done if you are okay with that type of living. 
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 01:39:25 PM by dustinst22 »

StashthatCash

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2018, 01:49:55 PM »
I know people that have moved there and gotten low stress part time jobs, ie grocery store, coffee shop, things like that. Doing that for 15-20 hours plus the savings they already had covers everything they need. That's personally our future plans once we get there.

evme

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2018, 06:03:08 PM »
I know people that have moved there and gotten low stress part time jobs, ie grocery store, coffee shop, things like that. Doing that for 15-20 hours plus the savings they already had covers everything they need. That's personally our future plans once we get there.

Good point. I have a decent stash but I don't want to touch the principal so will probably need to continue working part-time. Right now I have my online business but I don't expect that to be viable for more than another 5 years or so. At that point I might just become a bagger at a grocery store or something.  :)

chasesfish

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2018, 09:23:18 PM »
It really just depends on what you want, I've toyed with the idea for years.  Some things are cheaper (entertainment) and most places have access to a Costco.  Jobs are also plentiful if you can show up to work on time and don't have huge expectations on pay.

Pay attention to to what everyone is saying though, it's all about choices.  Don't try to recreate your life on the mainland for 30k, doesn't work.  Housing is just more expensive per sqft.

Nords

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2018, 08:14:38 PM »
One thing you may consider, and what my wife and I plan to do once our son finishes school is to travel hack via credit cards free flights, then get an AirBnB for say 1-3 months at a time.   Basically allows you to live there short term at local living costs without the usual higher prices associated with vacations.  I'd do this before moving there permanently anyway, as living in Hawaii won't be exactly as you imagine.  Many regret it and feel too isolated.  I grew up in Alaska, and there were some affluent retired Alaskans who would live in Hawaii in the winter, then back to Alaska in the summer because they needed the variety after getting "island fever".

Good idea -- I was thinking of doing something like this next year -- go for one month and see how it goes whilst tracking my food and other expenses carefully.
Evme, we've lived on Oahu for 29 years and I get the "move to Hawaii" question a lot.

We have one other forum member on Kauai, but I don't know whether they want to keep their location private.  I'll PM them and link this thread for them to let you know.

Your biggest budget challenge is hacking your housing.  You're probably going to be living in a smaller, older place with a roommate or two.  I'd recommend renting for 12-18 months so that you can do 50 open houses in your chosen neighborhoods, and eventually you'll find a place with a desperate seller in need of sweat equity.  In general, Hawaii landlords are not pet-friendly.  If you have a pet (especially a big dog) then your options are limited (and expensive). 

The rest of your budget can be about the same as the Mainland, but (as another poster mentioned) it depends on eating local.  (For example, we no longer drink cow's milk.)  As the photo below shows, your pork can be very affordable.  (Those guys might not be your neighbors... but they could be.)  Your individual expense categories will change because you probably won't need to heat your home, and might not even need air conditioning.  You won't have to winterize.  You'll have much lower clothing expenses (especially by shopping Goodwill & thrift stores).  You'll drive less.

Amazon and the Kahului Costco have really hammered down the local prices.  In the next 5-10 years a Best Buy will probably also open in Kahului. 

Have you looked at your healthcare expenses?  I know one resident (on a neighbor island) whose Kaiser healthcare plan flies them to Oahu (on Hawaiian Airlines) for any specialist referrals like orthopedic surgeons.  It turns out that it costs Kaiser less to buy a client a plane ticket than it does to subsidize the cost of persuading an orthopedic surgeon to live on a neighbor island.

One of your financial skills may be part-time work.  You might be willing to work in some sort of occupation (either in person or online) for 10-20 hours/week because you don't need much income for your budget.  The employer will be happy to hire you because nobody else on Maui wants to have a part-time job if they can pursue a full-time one.  In my case I could easily gross $30K/year with property management and handyman repairs/maintenance. 

If you have close family on the Mainland (elders, adult children) then you'll do a lot of travel hacking.

Maui (and a couple other neighbor islands) have "New Guy Syndrome".  Kama'aina will be friendly yet reserved until they're confident that you're really moving there for more than just a three-year tour.  After three years they'll be willing to invest more time & energy in being neighbors & friends. 

I direct most of my readers to this weak-dissonance post on not moving to Hawaii.  In your case, there's a bunch of links at the bottom of the post for your in-depth research.
https://the-military-guide.com/good-reasons-not-to-live-in-hawaii/
https://the-military-guide.com/lifestyles-in-military-retirement-living-in-hawaii/

For example:  Napili seems to be overbuilt with condos and might have some bargains.  You'll also want to read those books, subscribe (online) to those newspapers, and use that blog & forum.

-------------

By the time my spouse and I were sent here in 1989 (both active-duty Navy) we'd lived all over the world and knew that this was "the place".  This is the longest I've ever lived in one state (nearly half my life) and the longest that I've ever lived at the same address (nearly 18 years).  Our daughter and her spouse (both active-duty Navy) are making their way through life on the Mainland, and maybe someday they'll return to the islands.  (That's their challenge, not ours, but we'll happily pay for their plane tickets.)  I plan to live here the rest of my life, hopefully with a longboard in my hands.


clarkfan1979

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2018, 06:39:16 PM »
My wife and I have lived on Kauai just shy of 3 years. We didn't have a previous plan to move to Kauai. A job opened up, I applied for it and got it.

I agree that it would be difficult to live on Maui on 30K/year. However, when trying to compare apples to apples, you are living on 30K/year because you are mortgage free. How much rent could you get for your house?

You could probably rent a studio or 1 bedroom for 1300/month. If you can get $1500/month in rent for your house, I would consider housing to be a wash.

My wife and I had a $650/month mortgage in Florida for a 3 bed/2 bath/2 car garage single family with about $200/month in utilities and internet. We were 30 minutes to the beach.

When we left 3 years ago we rented our Florida home for $1650/month. We rented a studio on Kauai for $1100/month including utilities and internet. We were 3 minutes to the beach. If you consider the $1,000 credit from our rental house we were only paying $100/month instead of $850/month. Yes, we did downsize, but our housing cost went down and our quality of life went up only being 3 minutes to the beach. That Florida house now rents for $1850/month.

Having a pet is going to make things much more expensive. Landlords are not pet friendly because of the red dirt. You will not have a chance on the best housing deals because of the pet. You will get overpriced left-overs. Flying back and forth to the mainland with a pet is expensive. We pay $700 round trip for our dog.

Groceries: Safeway is 50% more expensive than mainland. Costco is only about 10% more than mainland. My grocery budget is the same as the mainland. We make up the 10% by purchasing cheap produce at the farmers market and getting free produce from neighbors.

Flights are reasonable with travel hacking. Southwest is coming to town within 6 months. Alaska Airlines has a great companion fare program with their credit card.

Paul der Krake

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2018, 10:05:32 PM »
Bunch of questions, if y'all don't mind.

Aside from rent and specific foods, are there other costs that potential newcomers aren't thinking of? Health insurance looks very reasonable (thanks, Obama), and I don't buy things in general. There was a thread on /r/hawaii the other day and people were aghast at living on 80k/year. Not applicable to Mustachians not doing the 9-5 dance, right?

Oahu's Leeward coast: racially charged dump, or best place on earth?

Who lives in those 2-4 million houses on the North Shore? Is it all owned by the various surf industry brands?

What's up with stores having Korean subtitles?

Nords

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2018, 10:59:36 PM »
Bunch of questions, if y'all don't mind.

Aside from rent and specific foods, are there other costs that potential newcomers aren't thinking of? Health insurance looks very reasonable (thanks, Obama), and I don't buy things in general. There was a thread on /r/hawaii the other day and people were aghast at living on 80k/year. Not applicable to Mustachians not doing the 9-5 dance, right?
The biggest challenge is hacking housing.  Whether it’s multigenerational families, or roommates, or rehab sweat equity, or living tiny in an accessory dwelling unit on the same lot alongside a bigger home... it’s a challenge.  But once you’ve solved that challenge, the rest of the island’s expenses are reasonable.

Oahu is building a light-rail system to connect Kapolei to Ala Moana (via the airport).  There’s explosive growth planning along the half-mile of land on either side of this rail corridor, and most of the buildings will be high-rise apartments or condos.  The light rail is reasonably expected to be operating by 2026.

We don’t “winterize”.  Our house doesn’t have air conditioning or heating (just ceiling fans).  If there’s something in a Mainland budget to deal with cold or heat, we might not spend that money here.

Gas is more expensive than the Mainland, but we drive less so our gasoline budget is smaller.  A 30x40-mile island is tailor-made for electric vehicles and (depending on the commute) bicycles.  During my working years here I commuted more miles by bicycle than car.

Clothing costs are a lot lower.  I no longer own a suit, a blazer, or even a necktie... let alone a vest.  My pair of dress shoes are over 30 years old because I only wear them 10-12 times per year.

Big-box stores have really brought prices down over the last 25 years.  Farmer’s markets (and generally eating local foods) can close the gap even further.

Kiplingers just ranked Hawaii #2 for retirees.  Even their editors seem surprised.
https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/finance/news/hawaii-2-best-state-retire-162832080.html
However for those old enough to remember “Worth” magazine, Hawaii has been in the top-ten of retirement rankings for at least 15 years.

Oahu's Leeward coast: racially charged dump, or best place on earth?
Yes.

That sounds snarky but it’s factual.  Much of the racism is directed at new people (“new” meaning “less than 10 years here”) and as an excuse for most conflicts.  Too many people move into a rental for a couple years and bring Mainland behavior to old-Hawaii traditional culture.  When the malihini don’t acculturate then suddenly it’s racial conflict, but that interpretation is more often coming from the newcomers than the locals. 

I could go on for several paragraphs about people who are not emotionally or socially sensitive to the cultural signals of group dynamics and then label the result as “racism” or “discrimination”. 

Meanwhile the hills, the valleys, and the coast are beautiful. 

Who lives in those 2-4 million houses on the North Shore? Is it all owned by the various surf industry brands?
Many of them are people who’ve been living in them since the 1970s (I know some of them).  They rent those houses to the surf brands during the winter because the corporations pay stupidly high sums of money.  Most of the professional surfers are packed into those places like submarine crew berthing.  Most of the visitors pay ridiculous prices for a 10’x10’ bedroom with a shared bathroom, but they’re surfing 4-6 hours/day and hardly spending anytime in their lodging. 

Those $2M-$4M homes are the first to be impacted by coastal erosion-- and by tsunami coming from Japan or Alaska earthquakes.

What's up with stores having Korean subtitles?
The Hawaii state courts recognize over 250 separate languages, and they’ll provide interpreters as needed.

Stores have long ago accommodated Japanese visitors, especially with QR codes for smartphone scans.  The latest waves of new visitor dollars are coming from South Korea and the People’s Republic of China.  Those signs are more visible because they want to attract visitors who are currently spending more than the Japanese demographic.

Most of the multilingual signage is in heavily-trafficked visitor areas like Waikiki, Ala Moana, or Haleiwa.  Otherwise you’ll only see hangul in Korean BBQ restaurants.

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Re: any mustachians living in Maui (or Hawaii)?
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2018, 11:36:32 PM »
Thanks Nords! Very insightful.

I've never lived in the same country, let alone the same area for 10 years, so I would probably stick out like a sore thumb. We don't have the savings to live a fully job-free life yet, so we'd have to come up with a strategy of part-time work that avoids the commuting trap.

This has given me lots to think about.