Any Mustachians here considering grad school?

[willow]

I'm a 20 something mustachian considering an MBA or MsE program. Trouble is, seems like a lot of money if I can't get it company sponsored or nab any scholarships. Not to mention, if I do plan on early retirement(which I haven't quite decided on the when) I'm not sure it will really do me much good.

Are there any people here who have obtained a degree or plan to obtain one? What was your reasoning for it?

[nvmama]

I'm currently in the process of obtaining my master's degree.  I however am fortunate where my company is paying for 80% of it and the other 20% comes out of my paycheck.  I also purchase all my books.  When I was in my twenties (I'm mid 30s now)I debated going back to school, but decided the only way I would do it is if a company helped with it.  I was pleasantly surprised when this opportunity arose.  It is very uncommon in my field (Human services) for a company to help with an advance degree.  I'm only taking one class a semester so this has been a long process.  I'm hoping in the end it will be worth it. I however, do not plan on retiring as early as many do here.  I enjoy my job, and currently I'm able to be at home with my kids and work a full time job in two long shifts and one meeting a week, so I have the best of both worlds and do not plan on changing that soon.  Pays not the best, but paying for childcare is not something that is financially worth it.  When the kids are older this will enable me to get a higher paying job, but who knows if I will want it by then.

[Milizard]

I'm a 20 something mustachian considering an MBA or MsE program. Trouble is, seems like a lot of money if I can't get it company sponsored or nab any scholarships. Not to mention, if I do plan on early retirement(which I haven't quite decided on the when) I'm not sure it will really do me much good.

Are there any people here who have obtained a degree or plan to obtain one? What was your reasoning for it?

I'm quite a bit older than you, but in the same boat.  Current plan is to take enough to take the CPA exam.  I'm taking care of my mom right now, so not able to work much at all.  Hoping this will keep the gap in my resume filled.  Otherwise, I don't know how I'll be able to jump back in to the job market with a good-paying job.

[rocketpj]

Depends.  I did an MA in Political Science.  It did open some doors for me - it wasn't the fault of the degree that I didn't know I would find office work intolerable.

I sometimes think I'll do a PHd post-FIRE, but I doubt it.  If I want to research and write a book I might just do that, without the school part.

[JLR]

My husband did his MIT. Was able to claim the course fees on his tax.

Now doing his MBA. Has gotten a scholarship for the first 3-4 subjects. Has applied for a second scholarship.

I'm not sure it has been worth is for his salary, but it has been worth it for his sanity.

[Neustache]

If I can get my act together, I'm starting grad school in the fall.  I have a BA in Psychology, but want to teach, so I am applying to a program where I can get my master's and teaching cert for middle school.  It will cost around 12K, but I'll start off making 40K and that's way more than I have ever made, personally. 

[Yankuba]

I'm getting a MPA while working full time because I hate my job and am considering a career change to non-profit. My goal isn't FIRE but to save up enough money so that my family can afford to live on the small salary I will earn if I change careers.

[I'm a red panda]

I did a M.Ed. online in my late 20s. It cost a small fortune, I paid out of pocket for it.  (My company did pay a small amount, but it was so nominal I don't really count it- like $2,000 total- of a $25,000 program.)

I am now with another company making 50% more than I did when I left the company  I was at when I did the degree (I did a 2 year stint somewhere else making 30% more than what I got said first company.)

I do not believe I would have gotten these jobs without the Master's degree, so it is well worth it.  (My first company would not have given me a raise for the degree though, which is why I switched jobs to a temporary 2 year position- and then switched jobs to a new full time one after that.)

Working full time and going to school was hard. I basically didn't have time for anything else- especially when doing 2 classes at a time.

[perummm]

Hi! I actually did a Masters in Marketing some 5 years ago (was late twenties) and the reasoning was that after researching the job ads, people with my experience and that degree made around 20% more. Degree was 40K, and raise at first job after school was around 18k.

IF you can make a better salary out of school, and pay for the degree between 2-5 years, it is a win in my book.

[willow]

Thanks for the input guys. My logic is somewhat along the lines of what perummm and iowajes described happening to them. I'm very risk averse and I noticed that as experience increased in my field master's degrees are increasingly sought after, and come with higher pay. Funny thing is, my current company could care less if I had one. The founder still works here and wouldn't hold something like that against me, the pay has been very good so far.

My thoughts would be to have one for the future in case something ever happened at my company or my spouse and I wanted to move. Not to mention I always did enjoy school.

[willow]

My husband did his MIT. Was able to claim the course fees on his tax.

Now doing his MBA. Has gotten a scholarship for the first 3-4 subjects. Has applied for a second scholarship.

I'm not sure it has been worth is for his salary, but it has been worth it for his sanity.

Hi JLR,

Why did your husband choose to do an MIT and then MBA?

[Patrick A]

I definitely do not regret getting my MS in EE -- but I was funded the whole time so the only sacrifice on my part was some earnings. 

The one drawback was that it put me behind some of my same age peers in terms of practical experience at the start of my career (only 3 years ago).  In my field, there is a large disconnect between academics and industry so even with an MS and 2+ years of research under your belt you don't have much directly applicable and practical experience.  As time passes, this matters less and the MS becomes much more of an advantage.  I'm finally to this point (with a lot of fast learning, ground pounding, hard work) but it was quite discouraging at the start to feel so behind people who had forgone the additional advanced degree, went straight to work, and earned more than me the whole time. 

Anyone else have a similar experience?

[HazelStone]

I'm a 20 something mustachian considering an MBA or MsE program. Trouble is, seems like a lot of money if I can't get it company sponsored or nab any scholarships. Not to mention, if I do plan on early retirement(which I haven't quite decided on the when) I'm not sure it will really do me much good.

Are there any people here who have obtained a degree or plan to obtain one? What was your reasoning for it?

I am considering a masters in cybersecurity. Lots of government agencies around here, and the masters is really becoming the new bachelors. If I end up staying home with future kids for any reason I might start it then to make use of the career downtime. Currently, I've been knocking out certifications to see how far I can get with those. I'm concerned that I'll spend lots of time, effort, and money only to be an "over-educated" IT admin.

I love to study, I read voraciously, and I consider myself as having a decent "classical" education. I like school for its own sake. Be that as it may, doing a masters for me will amount to the cheapest way to "get my ticket punched" for the higher paying jobs while hopefully learning something worthwhile and making a few connections.

Earlier I considered an MBA, but figured that it wouldn't really pay off if I wasn't already in a larger company where to get promoted internally I'd need the magic piece of paper. I hadn't gotten that sort of job yet, so I tabled the matter. Good thing, too, because I would have ended up with scads of loans right in pits of the Great Recession.

[Cwadda]

Currently undergrad in Geoscience/Env. Science and 100% going to grad school immediately afterward. Hoping to get a TA position and having tuition + stipend pay for everything. My employer has also offered to pay for it, but I'd rather just do it all through the school so I don't get tied into working for current employer.

Seems like it's almost necessary for my field to have any chance of moving up quickly. 

[Bytowner]

I signed up for a Masters program out of boring. Felt a particular lack of drive at my job and needed a change of pace. Moreover, I decided getting it overseas would be the biggest shake-up so I went that route. Did a PoliSci degree in England.

Boost my career? Maybe a bit (although I actually ended up at the same company!), but more importantly it was the best experience of my life. New friends, new experience in one of the greatest cities in the world, lots of travel. It was a hard reboot on my life.

My only advice would be take a subject you'll actually enjoy in a place you'll actually want to be. Don't spend tens of thousands just to get the piece of paper.

[Patrick A]

My only advice would be take a subject you'll actually enjoy in a place you'll actually want to be. Don't spend tens of thousands just to get the piece of paper.

+1

[HazelStone]

My only advice would be take a subject you'll actually enjoy in a place you'll actually want to be. Don't spend tens of thousands just to get the piece of paper.

+1

Yes and no.  I actually like IT; I like the problem-solving aspects and taking things apart. My regional job market worships graduate degrees. I also like finance, but that field is @#$%! for a while. I had a boyfriend who majored in poli sci. Loved the field, floundered in his career. Decided to go to law school, took out gobs of debt only to...flounder in his career. The financial return was decidedly negative.

My younger cousin got a history degree. Now he wants to get married and has no idea how he'll support a family, much less himself.

Back in the Bronze Age, my mother got a "fluffy" degree. My dad went back and got a "marketable" degree because he understood someone had to support the family.

My husband got an engineering degree, and snagged a good job graduating in the deepest pits of the job market. He also loves what he does, which is great. At some point, somehow, you have to get your shit together.

I majored in business. I'm one of those weirdos who likes studying finance and economics. I am thirtysomething, have been on the ouchy end of this economy a couple of times, and now me and my husband are trying to start a family. Once you make that decision, it's no longer all about you. You have to consider how you're going to give that kid the best start in life possible. If, for whatever reason, I leave the workforce for a couple of years, breaking back into it is very, very difficult. So I have to either make myself marketable enough to earn enough for daycare and maintain my retirement contributions... or if I step out, come back with some serious new skills to offer.

[Beric01]

I would consider Mustachians proportionately less likely to attend grad school compared to their level of income and education. Grad school takes longer to pay off than a bachelor's, so if you're going to be hitting FI before that payoff point, then it just doesn't make sense. For example, someone in my field (business/marketing) would likely go for an MBA to advance their career and move into management. This was my default option before I discovered MMM.

But now, I plan to FI in 5-10 years and stop working, so there's little reason for me to obtain additional education that I won't have much opportunity to use. Even if I could get the education fully paid for by my company, I'd prefer to spend my extra time learning something that would be useful for the rest of my life, which will not be work.

[Jack]

I've just started my MS CS in Georgia Tech / Udacity's new online program. I'd always wanted to get (at least) a Master's, but was too burnt at the end of undergrad to do it immediately and then suffered sticker shock at the opportunity cost. This was the first program that was cheap and flexible enough (and at a prestigious enough school) to be worthwhile.

I'm not getting reimbursed by my employer, but I figure even paying the $700-$1000/semester (depending on how many classes I take) while working full time is cheaper than quitting and trying to survive on a grad student stipend.

I don't have any particular expectation of it being a financial investment; I'm just doing it because I want to.

[gluskap]

I got my MS in Biochemistry with an online program.  I picked the program that was the cheapest.  It cost about $18k and work paid for about $3k.  I did this in my early 30s and paid for it out of savings with no loans.  Right after I finished, I got promoted and a big raise.  Could have been a coincidence but I'm sure it didn't hurt.  I think putting the degree on my resume when I interviewed and got another offer was what pushed them to pay me more when I went back to my current company with another offer.

My husband started a masters program that his previous work paid for.  He ended up applying at another company and got a 20% higher offer plus $10k bonus.  He decided to take the new job which also is offering to pay for the rest of his masters.  He did have to pay back his previous company $16k since he didn't stay with them but the higher salary at the new job will make up for that after a year.  He doesn't think he would've gotten that other offer if he didn't put that he was doing a masters program on his resume.

So I think it can be definitely worth it for the increase in salary.  It's an investment in yourself but should pay dividends over the long term.

[kpd905]

I got my Master's and it was around $30k per year, no employer help.  But it should have paid for itself in a few years, since I am making at least double what I would have with a Bachelor's in Biology.

[clarkfan1979]

If grad school is for personal development, then I think the reasoning is good and consistent with MMM. However, if the goal is to make more money and retire early, things get complicated. Grad school will almost always be worth the investment during a 40 year working career. However, if the goal is to retire early, grad school might not be worth it because the only way to get a higher payoff for your degree is to work additional years. 

[nazar]

I got an MBA primarily because my employer at the time had an educational plan that covered everything except books.  Also because while that employer had no issues with my music major, not every company would necessarily feel the same way.  Would I pay out of pocket for one?  Unlikely.

[johnny847]

If grad school is for personal development, then I think the reasoning is good and consistent with MMM. However, if the goal is to make more money and retire early, things get complicated. Grad school will almost always be worth the investment during a 40 year working career. However, if the goal is to retire early, grad school might not be worth it because the only way to get a higher payoff for your degree is to work additional years.

+1

I'm currently getting a PhD in EE right now. It's fully funded and I'm getting paid, so it's not a financial burden on me.

But I'm certainly getting paid less than if I were working right now with my BS. I'd love to hit FI early, but I think a reasonable goal for me at this point is to hit FI by 40 or so, depending on if I get married, have kids, etc. I'll probably graduate when I'm 27 or 28. Though I'm pretty sure I could have hit FI by my early 30s if I started working right out of undergrad (I graduated without any debt. So I'd be in a various similar situation to MMM, without his then significant other now wife).

tl;dr - Grad school pushes back FIRE quite a bit. You pretty much have to decide if you want the degree because you truly want it, or if you would rather FIRE earlier.

[Mr Dorothy Dollar]

I have my under grad in electrical engineering and mechanical engineering during 2008 I saw all the old fat over-paid engineers get let go. Knowing that one day I hoped to be an old fat over-paid engineer, I had to do something because the next downturn could be my head.

I went and got my JD. Worked at a big law firm office politics and being gay don't mix too well, so I became a patent examiner. Best job ever, low stress, good benefits, and I still deal with new tech.

[darkadams00]

Two master's degrees. I only had to pay for one semester out of pocket. I earned fellowships to pay for the rest. Both degrees were beneficial in getting a great job afterwards. Over 50% of my coworkers have two grad degrees or more and about 20-25% have PhDs so the academic cost of admission is high. I work in a non-academic department, but our Lunch & Learns are grad school level, patents are earned regularly, and our contributions to Fortune 500 companies as well as state and federal agencies are significant.

If the degree is needed, get it. If not, it falls into the category of discretionary spending just like any other endeavor. Be realistic about whether the degree is beneficial or not. Few good jobs are completely indiscriminate of the level of education required at entry level. Contacts with experience people in the field can tell you exactly what an interviewing manager expects from an applicant.

[purplish]

I got a Masters because in order to be a professional in my field (counseling), you need one.  So for me it was definitely worth it, unless I wanted to cap out at $15 an hour. 

[NorCal]

I earned my MBA.  My GI Bill paid for part of it, and I worked part time to pay for the rest of it.

Overall, I would say it was a good investment.  I have significantly more income opportunities than I would otherwise.

I would recommend doing it one of two ways:
1.  If you're fairly well set in your career, and you are looking at something to boost your resume, but not make major changes: Find a local part time or online program.  Get the cheapest degree you can, preferably while still working.
2. If you are looking for a complete change of career, or a "high power-high income" job, go for the best school you can get into.  Think a top-10 program.

Both of these options offer the best value for money.  You'll still do okay with the mid-tier schools, but the value for money isn't nearly the same.

[BlueMR2]

I think about it from time to time.  I'd really like to get my doctorate.  However, it's a lot of money to get there and in my field it would make it harder to get a job.  So, no, haven't done it yet (and probably never will) despite the desire.

[Jack]

I would recommend doing it one of two ways:
1.  If you're fairly well set in your career, and you are looking at something to boost your resume, but not make major changes: Find a local part time or online program.  Get the cheapest degree you can, preferably while still working.
2. If you are looking for a complete change of career, or a "high power-high income" job, go for the best school you can get into.  Think a top-10 program.

Or be like me and do it both ways, in a program that's simultaneously cheap (online and part-time) and top-10!

:D

(I just hope employers don't make too much of a distinction between "MSCS from GA Tech" and "OMSCS from GA Tech.")

[JLR]

Hi JLR,
Why did your husband choose to do an MIT and then MBA?

IT has always been his personal interest and he could see how the field from his Bachelor was moving more in the direction of IT, allowing for a change to a position that merged his Bachelor background with his interests. Also, while upon graduation from his Bachelor a job was pretty much guaranteed, the GFC led to lots of Australians returning from the UK looking for work in Australia as locum work in the UK dried up, making the market here much more competitive.
In the end, while waiting for a job in the IT area to come up, he had the chance for a promotion into a higher management area, but on a contract basis. He started 15 months of 3-month contracts in November 2013 (but at the beginning we thought it would only be one 3-month contract, then permanency). He found he really enjoyed managing people and wanted to do his MBA to learn more about it and be a better manager. He also wanted to improve his job prospects at that level and in that area. It turned out to be a lucky choice, as he is now a good way through his MBA  and his contract position has finally been advertised as a permanent role. He has his interview later this month and will be able to show his commitment to being a good manager, and has learned a lot that should help him get through the interview, too! Fingers crossed!
To move into higher positions from the new one, he will need further certificates and degrees. He is looking into doing his CPA as his next step in climbing the ladder and being in a position where he can effect change in the system....or maybe he just likes studying! For us, MMM is more about security than FIRE. I know we have been very grateful over the last 15 months of short contracts to have savings behind us to be able to ride out the unknown.