Author Topic: Any academic administrators here?  (Read 4024 times)

alex753

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Any academic administrators here?
« on: December 31, 2018, 03:36:40 PM »
I like the energy of college campuses and am thinking of a mid career switch to pretty much anything related to academic administration using my 2008 BA in Economics (and no related work experience to enter the field).

Maybe just call the University where I graduated from and see what they say about openings for alumni?

Thoughts?


Just Joe

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2018, 03:52:03 PM »
Look at the HR pages for schools around you and look for job openings? Take what you can get and learn the ropes?

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2018, 04:06:10 PM »
Look at the HR pages for schools around you and look for job openings? Take what you can get and learn the ropes?

That's what I am thinking.  I also might try to use the veterans service center where I graduated (Cal State Long Beach) to see if that could help.  I'm just not sure what roles might be desirable hence the post.  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 04:41:47 PM by alex753 »

gaja

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2018, 04:26:37 PM »
In my part of the world, grant writing and project administration are desired skills for academic administrators. To get experience grant writing, you can ask some local charities if they want help applying for funding.

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2018, 04:42:53 PM »
In my part of the world, grant writing and project administration are desired skills for academic administrators. To get experience grant writing, you can ask some local charities if they want help applying for funding.

Interesting.  Thanks for the angle.  I remember just the other day seeing a "Grant Writing" book at Barnes and Noble.

Just Joe

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2018, 08:24:05 PM »
Once you get planted somewhere in a job, attend the faculty senate meetings to see what the hot topics are on that campus. I know someone who has job hopped all over the campus where they work. Slow increase in salary and lots of varied experiences. 

Rural

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2019, 08:43:11 AM »
What do you mean by "administration"? If you're looking for an entry- or mid-level staff position, you should start looking at listings on the HR websites. If you're hoping for upper administration, I'm afraid you won't have much chance without a terminal degree and experience in higher ed. Do be sure you look at salaries carefully whatever you do; if you haven't made the comparisons you may be surprised at how low they are compared to industry.

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2019, 09:01:10 AM »
What do you mean by "administration"? If you're looking for an entry- or mid-level staff position, you should start looking at listings on the HR websites. If you're hoping for upper administration, I'm afraid you won't have much chance without a terminal degree and experience in higher ed. Do be sure you look at salaries carefully whatever you do; if you haven't made the comparisons you may be surprised at how low they are compared to industry.

I mean entry level administration jobs.  Not upper level administration and I don't have any plans to climb whatever ladder there may be to top jobs.  I've already guaranteed myself a good retirement at 60-62 (I'm now 44) and would like a much less stressful office job while I continue to save and enjoy life till then.

I'm not sure academic administration is where that should be but it seems to make sense to me.  I'm talking administering paperwork, helping students, or something similar.  I don't really care because any switch form my current environment would be huge. 

As far as salaries I don't need much more than 52K yr (even in the SoCal area I'd like to be) and I've seen many postings around that amount and above. For example, UC Irvine, Coast Colleges like Orange Coast College and Golden West College near Orange County CA.

I'm also considering Vegas because I can buy a decent condo cheap, keep my costs low, and possibly nomad strategy some rental properties in conjunction with a new job.  However, I'd be patient because looks like Vegas is somewhat overpriced now.  I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll see some better deals there over the next couple years.  In Vegas I could go quite bit lower in salary.  Not that I want to, it's just being frugal minded I like to keep costs low so even a lower salary accommodates a decent amount of savings.

Again, just throwing this out there to see if there's anyone in similar positions or experiences to get angles on if it would be a feasible mid career switch. 
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 09:13:04 AM by alex753 »

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2019, 09:44:31 AM »
I’ve been a higher ed admin for about 9 years.  Although, with my latest job change I’m probably categorized as Special Professional Faculty. I love higher ed, there’s nothing else I’d rather do.  I had to work my way up - started out making 35k even though I had a law degree.  I worked in fundraising the first 8 years which can actually pay very well once you work your way up.  But I made my money (my salary as a director in fundraising was $95,000 plus a bonus of about $15,000), took a pay cut and now work more on the academic side.  Look into tuition waiver - I got a masters in business for $120 (had to pay the graduation fee).

Some universities have excellent 403(b) plans.  My wife and I are both in higher ed and we’re on pace to be financially independent in a few years in our early 40s.

maizefolk

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2019, 09:59:34 AM »
Some universities have excellent 403(b) plans.  My wife and I are both in higher ed and we’re on pace to be financially independent in a few years in our early 40s.

To add to this, some public universities offer a 403(b) AND a 457 plan, letting you do put aside 2x as much money in tax deferred retirement accounts.

$52,000 would be a bit on the high side for an entry level staff position where I work, but it makes sense that in California starting salaries would necessarily need to be higher.

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2019, 10:01:24 AM »
I’ve been a higher ed admin for about 9 years.  Although, with my latest job change I’m probably categorized as Special Professional Faculty. I love higher ed, there’s nothing else I’d rather do.  I had to work my way up - started out making 35k even though I had a law degree.  I worked in fundraising the first 8 years which can actually pay very well once you work your way up.  But I made my money (my salary as a director in fundraising was $95,000 plus a bonus of about $15,000), took a pay cut and now work more on the academic side.  Look into tuition waiver - I got a masters in business for $120 (had to pay the graduation fee).

Some universities have excellent 403(b) plans.  My wife and I are both in higher ed and we’re on pace to be financially independent in a few years in our early 40s.

Great story! Congrats on the financial independence progress.  That's what I'm talking about.  I loved my time as a student on campus in Cali which is why I'm looking at this as a possibility.  Broadly speaking, which departments would you target, which would you avoid?

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2019, 10:04:36 AM »
Some universities have excellent 403(b) plans.  My wife and I are both in higher ed and we’re on pace to be financially independent in a few years in our early 40s.

To add to this, some public universities offer a 403(b) AND a 457 plan, letting you do put aside 2x as much money in tax deferred retirement accounts.

$52,000 would be a bit on the high side for an entry level staff position where I work, but it makes sense that in California starting salaries would necessarily need to be higher.

Thanks.  This is another reason public universities are a good place to be.  Lot's of retirement benefit options. 

Rural

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2019, 10:19:16 AM »
Yes, $52k is high, but the real takeaway is that there is high salary variability. For context, $52k is more than I make as a tenured associate professor with PhD , but this is the extreme low end. Our entry level staff are at about $30k. Just check into the details wherever you go.


With an Econ degree, you might be more likely to get a job in the business office/fiscal affairs than in student life, so consider that if it's not the sort of thing you're trying to get away from. But it can be a good life. I did half-time admin for several years and am happy to be back as full-time faculty, but I would not want to work away from a college campus. You're right about the energy.


And yes, check into the retirement options. It's hard to beat the pension/457/403b combo, especially in the cases where you're also still fully eligible for social security. In my case, with HSA, the tax-deferred space equals or exceeds the income remaining after health insurance premiums, mandatory pension contributions and FICA. :)

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2019, 10:40:47 AM »
Yes, $52k is high, but the real takeaway is that there is high salary variability. For context, $52k is more than I make as a tenured associate professor with PhD , but this is the extreme low end. Our entry level staff are at about $30k. Just check into the details wherever you go.


With an Econ degree, you might be more likely to get a job in the business office/fiscal affairs than in student life, so consider that if it's not the sort of thing you're trying to get away from. But it can be a good life. I did half-time admin for several years and am happy to be back as full-time faculty, but I would not want to work away from a college campus. You're right about the energy.


And yes, check into the retirement options. It's hard to beat the pension/457/403b combo, especially in the cases where you're also still fully eligible for social security. In my case, with HSA, the tax-deferred space equals or exceeds the income remaining after health insurance premiums, mandatory pension contributions and FICA. :)

Besides the energy, I had a strong interest in too many subjects to feasibly pursue; economics, physics, psychology to name a few.

I've had to temper those thoughts because it's overwhelming to think it's possible to understand them all.  I was one of those students who actually wanted to be on campus.

I am in aviation maintenance now (actually maintain the avionics on planes) which is the environment I want to get away from. I've done very well with it and it's time to move on.

So, something like the Business Office or Fiscal Affairs would suit me very well.  I am going to contact my former University and some others within the next couple weeks to test the waters.  I belive my veteran status and using veterans affairs might help with job leads on campus too.

Thanks for the info!

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2019, 10:46:44 AM »
Alex, I think the possible landing spots are based on your background more than your interests unfortunately.  I agree with Rural that you should look into the business office before student life.  My wife is a director of student advising at a community college in a small town, and even there she’s looking for people with experience.  You should at least consider development/fundraising because it pays more than most higher ed jobs and the hours have some flexibility if you make your goals.

Personally, I’d avoid jobs in admissions. High turnover and its kind of a young person’s game unless you’re a VP.

I agree with Rural about the salary variability.  It’s true by department but also by institution.  I work at what would be described as an elite private college with a 13B endowment and we generally pay well.  Before I got my big break I was at a very financially challenged small private school and the pay was less than half.  All that said, I’d consider community colleges because they can be good places to launch into the industry and you can really make a difference.

MMMarbleheader

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2019, 11:16:29 AM »
I work for a construction manager and if I get burnt out before FIRE I will jump ship and go work as a capital project manager for a college.

 I had a friend who did this, he makes about $100k which is a pay cut long term but still pretty good for an easy job.


alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2019, 12:09:54 PM »
Alex, I think the possible landing spots are based on your background more than your interests unfortunately.  I agree with Rural that you should look into the business office before student life.  My wife is a director of student advising at a community college in a small town, and even there she’s looking for people with experience.  You should at least consider development/fundraising because it pays more than most higher ed jobs and the hours have some flexibility if you make your goals.

Personally, I’d avoid jobs in admissions. High turnover and its kind of a young person’s game unless you’re a VP.

I agree with Rural about the salary variability.  It’s true by department but also by institution.  I work at what would be described as an elite private college with a 13B endowment and we generally pay well.  Before I got my big break I was at a very financially challenged small private school and the pay was less than half.  All that said, I’d consider community colleges because they can be good places to launch into the industry and you can really make a difference.

About my interests those are purely for personal intellectual growth and I'm not looking for employment with them.  Anything in the business office would be great.

It's huge to learn from insiders like yourself about such things as avoiding admissions and student life.  It makes sense.  And info like that can really help avoid pursuing dead ends.

I'll look into fundraising and the business office.  Honestly I would think since I'm more of an introvert fundraising may not be for me, unless I'm guessing incorrectly what that might entail.  Ensuring processes are followed and business office tasks are done well is probably right up my alley.

Thanks again!

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2019, 12:11:56 PM »
I work for a construction manager and if I get burnt out before FIRE I will jump ship and go work as a capital project manager for a college.

 I had a friend who did this, he makes about $100k which is a pay cut long term but still pretty good for an easy job.

Sounds like an excellent plan.   

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2019, 12:15:58 PM »
Once you get planted somewhere in a job, attend the faculty senate meetings to see what the hot topics are on that campus. I know someone who has job hopped all over the campus where they work. Slow increase in salary and lots of varied experiences.

Noted. Thanks for the info.

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2019, 12:22:01 PM »
If you land at a 4 year school you should really look into tuition waiver for a MS in management or MBA.  It could be free and you could do it part time.  That would open up adjunct teaching opportunities while you work a full time admin gig.  There are often chances to teach intro business classes like Business Communication and stuff, but obviously you need some type of Masters degree to qualify.

Spiffy

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2019, 12:25:58 PM »

I mean entry level administration jobs.  Not upper level administration and I don't have any plans to climb whatever ladder there may be to top jobs.  I've already guaranteed myself a good retirement at 60-62 (I'm now 44) and would like a much less stressful office job while I continue to save and enjoy life till then.

[/quote]

I work in admin at an expensive private university and my husband is a lecturer. Be careful what you wish for...many departments on campus are very stressful because of politics, pettiness, back biting, etc. It can be very unpleasant to be around.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 12:27:33 PM by Spiffy »

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2019, 12:41:50 PM »

I mean entry level administration jobs.  Not upper level administration and I don't have any plans to climb whatever ladder there may be to top jobs.  I've already guaranteed myself a good retirement at 60-62 (I'm now 44) and would like a much less stressful office job while I continue to save and enjoy life till then.


I work in admin at an expensive private university and my husband is a lecturer. Be careful what you wish for...many departments on campus are very stressful because of politics, pettiness, back biting, etc. It can be very unpleasant to be around.
[/quote]

I've read that and definitely not a fan.  Is that more geared towards academic competition between professors and lecturers?  Do administrators get included or are you saying it's stressful to watch it happen?

I would think in the business area there might not be the same types of battles.  Of course there will always be stresses in every job environment.  But maybe not the same types in all departments?

Spiffy

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2019, 02:44:02 PM »

I mean entry level administration jobs.  Not upper level administration and I don't have any plans to climb whatever ladder there may be to top jobs.  I've already guaranteed myself a good retirement at 60-62 (I'm now 44) and would like a much less stressful office job while I continue to save and enjoy life till then.


I work in admin at an expensive private university and my husband is a lecturer. Be careful what you wish for...many departments on campus are very stressful because of politics, pettiness, back biting, etc. It can be very unpleasant to be around.

I've read that and definitely not a fan.  Is that more geared towards academic competition between professors and lecturers?  Do administrators get included or are you saying it's stressful to watch it happen?

I would think in the business area there might not be the same types of battles.  Of course there will always be stresses in every job environment.  But maybe not the same types in all departments?
[/quote]
Depending on the level, yes, admins can very much be involved in campus politics. I have known people that got fired when the provost that hired them was no longer in a power position. There are probably departments that try to stay out of that, but it only takes one person to draw everyone into a mess. I have worked at three universities, an Ivy League, a big midwestern, and now a christian private. At all three I have witnesses some pretty petty behavior from tenured professors, high level administrators, temporary lecturers trying to get a permanent positions, etc. There is not enough money to go around to all department, so there are deals being made all the time. It can get ugly. Of course, it isn't aways like that. My department is filled with lovely people who do not take advantage of each other. My husbands department is mostly fine, but there is one guy who is always working behind the scene trying to make deals. That can be dangerous.

maizefolk

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2019, 03:10:04 PM »
I have worked at three universities, an Ivy League, a big midwestern, and now a christian private. At all three I have witnesses some pretty petty behavior from tenured professors, high level administrators, temporary lecturers trying to get a permanent positions, etc. There is not enough money to go around to all department, so there are deals being made all the time. It can get ugly. Of course, it isn't aways like that. My department is filled with lovely people who do not take advantage of each other. My husbands department is mostly fine, but there is one guy who is always working behind the scene trying to make deals. That can be dangerous.

I was shocked a couple of months ago to find out the person who handles finances for our unit likes me because I'm one of the profs who doesn't yell at her. .... this had not occurred to me as a positive trait, just a baseline being-a-decent-human-being thing.

One unpleasant tasks of a lot of lower level administrative staffers is that you're often in the position of explaining that people cannot do X because of university rule Y (even when university rule Y makes absolutely zero logical sense). So you end up being the bad guy over stuff you have zero power to change.

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2019, 06:08:16 PM »
Thanks @Spiffy @maizeman @lhamo @CheapScholar @Rural

Interesting stuff. 

I'm not too familiar with university organizational structure, but I was guessing there might be administrative jobs separate from academics with possibly less politics.

I'm going to be figuring this out over the next couple months.  I need to stay where I'm at until March 1st when my pension is pretty much maxed out.  I'll start testing the waters over the next few weeks by calling the veterans offices at both the community college and university where I graduated from.

Also, the continued education was something I was extremely enthused about a few years ago but has waned due to some pretty severe burnout with my current job.  As in I'm not sure I've got the energy to work and go to school. 

I hope it comes back because at one time I did want to pursue an MA in Econ and possibly teach some lower level classes.  I've thought about UNLV because it's really cheap to live there and I've got a 100K plus e-fund where I could work just a little and go to school...

We'll see!

Lot's of valuable info here.

Much appreciated. 

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2019, 06:09:48 PM »
 
Thanks @Spiffy @maizeman @lhamo @CheapScholar @Rural

Interesting stuff. 

I'm not too familiar with university organizational structure, but I was guessing there might be administrative jobs separate from academics with possibly less politics.

I'm going to be figuring this out over the next couple months.  I need to stay where I'm at until March 1st when my pension is pretty much maxed out.  I'll start testing the waters over the next few weeks by calling the veterans offices at both the community college and university where I graduated from.

Also, the continued education recommendation was something I was extremely enthused about a few years ago but has waned due to some pretty severe burnout with my current job.  As in I'm not sure I've got the energy to work and go to school. 

I hope it comes back because at one time I did want to pursue an MA in Econ and possibly teach some lower level classes.  I've thought about UNLV because it's really cheap to live there and I've got a 100K plus e-fund where I could work just a little and go to school...

We'll see!

Lot's of valuable info here.

Much appreciated.
 

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2019, 06:56:32 PM »
I worked in grant administration at a university.  That's basically compliance oversight of those spending grant money to make sure they don't break any of the zillions of rules attached to those dollars. 

Don't just look on university sites.  Many (maybe most) universities break out their research foundations into separate organizations.  Those jobs would be listed separately from the university jobs.  Generally the organization would be called "[MMMUniversity] Research Foundation",  so search for that for each university near you.  Also, since you mention working an alumni connection, I know my university gave zero preference for alums, so I don't know how effective that will be.  (Well, there may have been a teeny, tiny preference that came in to play if all other things were equal, but it it was basically meaningless.)

Also, if you want or need to make a ton of money, this probably isn't the route to go.  I had great healthcare (no co pay, though I left in 2010 so that could have changed, and I believe there was a small copay for family members), a generous retirement plan (equivilent of 10% of salary into a 403b, no matching investment from me required), and few other nice benefits.  But pay was very, very middle of the road. 

And while I had a good deal of non-profit work experience (basic admin stuff) and I'd taken on online 6 week grant writing course, I had no actual grant writing experience, and nor did any of my colleagues that I can recall. 

alex753

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2019, 07:31:26 PM »
I worked in grant administration at a university.  That's basically compliance oversight of those spending grant money to make sure they don't break any of the zillions of rules attached to those dollars. 

Don't just look on university sites.  Many (maybe most) universities break out their research foundations into separate organizations.  Those jobs would be listed separately from the university jobs.  Generally the organization would be called "[MMMUniversity] Research Foundation",  so search for that for each university near you.  Also, since you mention working an alumni connection, I know my university gave zero preference for alums, so I don't know how effective that will be.  (Well, there may have been a teeny, tiny preference that came in to play if all other things were equal, but it it was basically meaningless.)

Also, if you want or need to make a ton of money, this probably isn't the route to go.  I had great healthcare (no co pay, though I left in 2010 so that could have changed, and I believe there was a small copay for family members), a generous retirement plan (equivilent of 10% of salary into a 403b, no matching investment from me required), and few other nice benefits.  But pay was very, very middle of the road. 

And while I had a good deal of non-profit work experience (basic admin stuff) and I'd taken on online 6 week grant writing course, I had no actual grant writing experience, and nor did any of my colleagues that I can recall.

Thanks for the tips.  The second one involving grant related work.

I'm at a stage in life where I don't need to make more money, but of course I'd take it if it happened.  If I could tolerate my industry (aviation maintenance for the last 25 years) I could retire almost certainly after one more bull market. I'm well set to coast from a financial perspective. 

The reason I cast this line was because I so much enjoyed my time on campus it seemed like it could be a great place to be; bridging to retirement.  And I was also trying to get a feel for if it was even practical to expect any positive response for employment for a middle aged (I'm 44) person trying to work in some kind of academic administration.  From what I gather, for a middle aged career changer having no experience with a new industry, it's tough to make it work.


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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2019, 02:27:58 AM »
I worked in grant administration at a university.  That's basically compliance oversight of those spending grant money to make sure they don't break any of the zillions of rules attached to those dollars. 

Don't just look on university sites.  Many (maybe most) universities break out their research foundations into separate organizations.  Those jobs would be listed separately from the university jobs.  Generally the organization would be called "[MMMUniversity] Research Foundation",  so search for that for each university near you.  Also, since you mention working an alumni connection, I know my university gave zero preference for alums, so I don't know how effective that will be.  (Well, there may have been a teeny, tiny preference that came in to play if all other things were equal, but it it was basically meaningless.)

Also, if you want or need to make a ton of money, this probably isn't the route to go.  I had great healthcare (no co pay, though I left in 2010 so that could have changed, and I believe there was a small copay for family members), a generous retirement plan (equivilent of 10% of salary into a 403b, no matching investment from me required), and few other nice benefits.  But pay was very, very middle of the road. 

And while I had a good deal of non-profit work experience (basic admin stuff) and I'd taken on online 6 week grant writing course, I had no actual grant writing experience, and nor did any of my colleagues that I can recall.

Thanks for the tips.  The second one involving grant related work.

I'm at a stage in life where I don't need to make more money, but of course I'd take it if it happened.  If I could tolerate my industry (aviation maintenance for the last 25 years) I could retire almost certainly after one more bull market. I'm well set to coast from a financial perspective. 

The reason I cast this line was because I so much enjoyed my time on campus it seemed like it could be a great place to be; bridging to retirement.  And I was also trying to get a feel for if it was even practical to expect any positive response for employment for a middle aged (I'm 44) person trying to work in some kind of academic administration.  From what I gather, for a middle aged career changer having no experience with a new industry, it's tough to make it work.

Since it sounds like you have some financial background at least, my org probably would have hired you. At the time (about 2008-2010), they were basically always hiring.  I'm not sure we ever had every desk full in the 2 years I worked there (that's in the grant admin department specifically).  Frankly, they hired people with either some financial background (and a BA was enough) or grant experience/knowledge of some kind, and both tended to be pretty minimal given that they always needed someone.  So I wouldn't say it's all that tough to make it work.  If you can find any sort of class with the word "grant" in it online, it may be worth taking.  I learned very, very little in the grant writing course I took, largely because 95% of it seemed pretty obvious ("grant RFPs have specific requirements.  Make sure you follow this requirements carefully.  Submitting a 10 page RFP when they limit to 5, or leaving out a specific budget it requested, may mean your proposal isn't even considered."  Duh!)  But on paper, it probably looked good for not only the job I got, but for anything at a research foundation because it suggest you know at least a tiny bit about grant funding, which is what fund everything-directly or indirectly--at a university research foundation. 

IIRC, starting pay was about $50k. Depending on your education and other experience, there might have been other jobs at the research foundation for which you'd have qualified, some of which might have paid more.   

hudsoncat

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Re: Any academic administrators here?
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2019, 07:00:28 AM »

I'm not too familiar with university organizational structure, but I was guessing there might be administrative jobs separate from academics with possibly less politics.


I work on the student affairs side at a community college, previously in a similar roles at a large university and a mid-sized university. There are plenty of politics to go around. It's actually one of the part of my position I find most frustrating.

I think someone mentioned this up thread, but do to look at community colleges. I don't find less politics or pressure here (honestly there might be more of both because less money to go around), but I really enjoy supporting this student population be successful. Pay is average, but the benefits are great.