Author Topic: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?  (Read 10138 times)

ketchup

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2017, 10:52:26 AM »
I think this thread answers the question in the thread below with a resounding "Yes"

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/weird-fourm-coversations-has-the-community-gone-soft

I think there is room within Mustachianism for one or two minor splurges that help keep you happy.  As long as you're not going whole-hog on multiple fronts.  For example, DW and I spend more than most Mustachians on food (although probably still less than most middle-class Americans), and I don't even want to tell you how much we spend feeding the birds that make our home-bound existence worthwhile.  But we eschew expensive cars, expensive entertainment, restaurants, big cable TV packages, I phones, new clothes, etc., etc.  Most "normal" people stand with their mouths agape when they find out how frugal we are.  We are saving a huge chunk of our income, have reached FI, and I'm planning to FIRE in January.  Works for us.
This is definitely the case.  The three main "required" living expenses are housing, transportation, and food.  If you absolutely nail two of the three, and do pretty well on the third, many other "splurges" just turn out to be noise.  If you live in a house that costs $400/mo less to own and maintain and $200/mo less on a car to own and maintain than your buddy Mr. McSpendyButNormalSeeming, you still come out way way ahead even if you're splurging $100/mo on something objectively stupid.

But that doesn't make the objectively stupid thing non-stupid, it just makes it "not matter" as much financially.  The problems occur when that $100/mo is really eight different things that each cost $100/mo, or if that $100/mo doesn't include other gigantic expenses that accommodate that $100/mo interest/hobby/habit.

I'd say what truly makes something Anti-mustachian (there's that no true Scotsman fallacy again) is inefficiency coupled with a lack of badassity.

For example, we have dogs, which one could say is anti-mustachian.  But we don't spend a buttload on dog food, grooming, vet visits, etc.  My GF bathes/grooms the dogs herself, I roll my own raw dog food (including cutting up multiple free wild venison carcasses in addition to buying for cheap in bulk from meat suppliers; averages out to less than $1/lb these days for dog food), and we keep them healthy to mitigate vet visits the best we can (obviously, dumb shit still happens sometimes).  We don't pay for a dog walker or anything like that, and we didn't buy a hilariously expensive large vehicle "for the dogs." Everything we can is in-sourced.

Also, we eat fancier food than many (though probably fairly similar to MMM himself).  But it's all made at home from scratch every day, and we buy in bulk/optimize our sources/shop the sales.  I'd say we spend more than the median Mustachian couple on food, but still less than the median American couple.

Also also, our house is a third the cost of most of my co-workers, and our (single car for two people) car is about ten years older than the median in the parking lot at work.  Oh, and no kids or plans for kids, but I'll just leave it at that.

Laura33

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2017, 11:13:49 AM »
But that doesn't make the objectively stupid thing non-stupid, it just makes it "not matter" as much financially. . . .

I'd say what truly makes something Anti-mustachian (there's that no true Scotsman fallacy again) is inefficiency coupled with a lack of badassity.

1.  ITA.  And to follow on, it's not that trying to be Mustachian means you can never be stupid; it means you work to keep your stupid under control and optimized.

2.  "Inefficiency coupled with a lack of badassity" -- I like that.  A lot. 
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soccerluvof4

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2017, 11:20:51 AM »
cable, Tvs and Netflix. I'm a couch potato once i get my exercise and chores done
Gym membership. I walk mostly but in the winters I need a place to go and since I dont hang out with many people its good to have conversation once in awhile.
Select sports- As per my name on here we have 4 kids in soccer so we spend alot on travel etc but its the life we chose and make alot of vacations out of it and the first two so far have got college scholarships One 100% athletic to a top school in the country and another one progresses but is worth it. 2 to go but college or not we dont care its what they love.
That would be it. Everything else were pretty frugal on to afford those things.
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mm1970

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2017, 11:24:00 AM »
I pay to join gyms and running groups.  Because I hate to run alone.  If I pay for the group I will go.

And I pay for a gym so that I have access to a pool.  I like to swim laps and take the kids.  Water safety is important to me.

Oh and I pay for my little guy to take swim lessons too.

surfhb

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2017, 07:08:45 PM »
I drive 100 miles a day for my commute to be able to live near the ocean.   Worth every min and penny 🌈🏄🌺👍🏽

I make up for it in other ways:  I've been driving the same vehicle since college... I'm almost 50 now

How has this fared for you and how long have you been doing so?  I am very very middle income (about 30-45k) but am considering a very low cost rental that is out in the country on a beautiful farm... that is 70 miles from my day job :/ 
I drive a hybrid (~53mpg) and the rent there would be about $650/month.  I currently pay $500.

I swear though, when I went to look at it this past weekend my head felt clearer, my heartbeat slowed down, and I really felt at home.  I live in the city now and the crime is high, stress is high, etc.  but my job pays well.  I work 4 days/wk.
Sorry to ask so much- just wanting to pick your brain on this!


Over 25 years now from Huntington Beach To Burbank (Ca).    I work in the film industry so to live near the ocean leaves me with one choice.   My Toyota pick up has almost 600K on it.     I'll replace it with a Prius if I had to though ;)   

The only reason I do this is because I enjoy surfing
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 10:39:32 PM by surfhb »

Tass

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2017, 07:22:53 PM »
I drive 100 miles a day for my commute

O_O In a pickup??

- I play a moderately expensive instrument (viola). $50 new strings every year, periodic maintenance.
- I like to see live orchestras. Generally get the cheap terrible seats.
- I spend $5/month taking fitness classes because it works better than trying to self-motivate.
- I'd like to one day invest more into making my house smell pretty, because I've noticed that's a guaranteed mood-lifter.

Was feeling pretty cocky about my habits until I remembered:

- I fly 1000 miles every two months to maintain a long-distance relationship. ...And he flies the other months.

Guess I'll keep my mouth shut about surfhb's commute. ;)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 11:30:04 AM by Tass »

Slow&Steady

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2017, 07:52:58 AM »
I drive 100 miles a day for my commute to be able to live near the ocean.   Worth every min and penny 🌈🏄🌺👍🏽

I make up for it in other ways:  I've been driving the same vehicle since college... I'm almost 50 now

How has this fared for you and how long have you been doing so?  I am very very middle income (about 30-45k) but am considering a very low cost rental that is out in the country on a beautiful farm... that is 70 miles from my day job :/ 
I drive a hybrid (~53mpg) and the rent there would be about $650/month.  I currently pay $500.

I swear though, when I went to look at it this past weekend my head felt clearer, my heartbeat slowed down, and I really felt at home.  I live in the city now and the crime is high, stress is high, etc.  but my job pays well.  I work 4 days/wk.
Sorry to ask so much- just wanting to pick your brain on this!


I also have driven and currently drive a long commute so that I can live in the country where I can usually feel stress melt away (excluding stress related to kids).  My current commute is 45 miles with no traffic, my previous commute was 65 miles with traffic.  All commuting has been with a Prius or a Leaf.  The with/without traffic is a huge difference.  I would highly suggest driving the route right after work for a couple days, specifically if you have a bad day at work because a bad day at work will really show you how you will feel about the commute a year or two from now.

mathlete

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2017, 10:51:59 AM »
Tons, probably.

But I'm not a celebrity blogger and thus, it makes little sense to model my life after that of a celebrity blogger.

I'm all for aggressively high savings rates, and (most importantly) taking stock of your life holistically and redefining what you do and do not value on a regular basis. I'm less big on getting hyper judgmental and one size fits all about purchasing decisions.

Keeping up with the Jones's is silly, but so is keeping down with them.

elaine amj

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2017, 11:52:51 AM »
Tons, probably.

But I'm not a celebrity blogger and thus, it makes little sense to model my life after that of a celebrity blogger.

I'm all for aggressively high savings rates, and (most importantly) taking stock of your life holistically and redefining what you do and do not value on a regular basis. I'm less big on getting hyper judgmental and one size fits all about purchasing decisions.

Keeping up with the Jones's is silly, but so is keeping down with them.

Haha - I like that. There's always a bit of pressure to "keep down with the Mustachians"! (although I must admit I quite like it and hang out here to get inspired)
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mathlete

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2017, 01:01:03 PM »
Haha - I like that. There's always a bit of pressure to "keep down with the Mustachians"! (although I must admit I quite like it and hang out here to get inspired)

For sure. Habits tend to rub off. And most of the habits people have around here are good ones.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2017, 01:15:33 PM »
Weíre not giving up the housecleaner; we eat out/order in, whenever we want; and, Iím still too generous/giving with family and friends. We make a decent amount and I feel guilty if Iím too cheap/frugal. That said, Iíve still given up my massage habit/love and I truly miss that but something had to give.

Buck

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2017, 02:11:26 PM »
Driving a large, loud, gas-guzzling 4x4 truck everyday which seems to result in many other anti-mustachian habits...

It comes in handy for the 4-mile commute to a white collar job, occasionally pulling a big boat, retrieving dead animals from muddy terrain, passing up slow drivers that are too busy selfie-texting on the way to work, transporting copious amounts of cheap and/or craft beer in a big Yeti ice chest (global warming requires a man to have an efficient, over-priced ice chest these days), bringing a Harley in to be serviced, hauling firewood or loads of corn, aiding people in flooded neighborhoods, supporting the oil industry (which ironically happens to build the greatest man-made reefs I have laid my eyes on while diving or fishing (oil rigs in the Gulf), and the list goes on.

*I applaud those that are able to suffice with a bicycle or small fuel-efficient car, but my hobbies and the things I enjoy in life would not be possible without a large truck. I attempt to reduce my environmental impact in other areas. (and also recycle beer cans, Amazon Prime boxes and used motor oil) 

Figured this would be a great way to introduce myself. Hi, I'm Buck.

spookytaffy

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2017, 02:13:18 PM »
I have several among which is a massage habit.  One to two a month.  The saving grace is that I get reimbursed from my FSA and I go to the no ambiance Asian place that is actually willing to put some effort into unknotting my back muscles and helping my blood circulation.  After that, I'll admit to having cable (and Netflix) because I'm not an outdoor person and the evenings are long and full of loneliness.

:-( 

justaguy

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2017, 02:39:39 PM »
I have a season pass to an amusement park - it is my happy place. Iíve bought them for two of my sons as well Ė but Iím sure Iíll continue to buy it for myself even when they are tired of going.

elaine amj

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2017, 03:01:58 PM »
My Disney habit. There's just something about it. Especially since DH loves it too. We just got back from an extravagant 2 weeks at WDW and heasked me whether we could plan a trip back really soon. I got excited for a minute before I facepunched myself and dragged us back to reality. I'm not completely discounting a trip...but it is rather unlikely at this point. I just don't see how it will work out, even next year. That said, never say never...I'm VERY good at justifying yet another Disney trip!
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jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2017, 03:03:49 PM »
Figured this would be a great way to introduce myself. Hi, I'm Buck.

Welcome, Buck :)
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alexpkeaton

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2017, 03:05:14 PM »
extended legroom seating on a plane

That's a tough one for me. I never pay for it, even though I hate airplane seats. I just can't bring myself to pay $60-120 for a few hours of slightly less discomfort.

I have paid for an upgrade to business class once when it was $200 for a longish flight and offered a lot more than just leg room. (United's Polaris service, for those who care.) I'd probably do it again, but only because I can easily afford it and it does make flying a pleasant experience.

rdaneel0

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2017, 03:46:58 PM »
Does weed count? :)
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Dragonswan

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2017, 07:00:01 AM »
Weíre not giving up the housecleaner; we eat out/order in, whenever we want; and, Iím still too generous/giving with family and friends. We make a decent amount and I feel guilty if Iím too cheap/frugal. That said, Iíve still given up my massage habit/love and I truly miss that but something had to give.

I will have a moment of silence for you the next time I'm on the table.

Dragonswan

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2017, 07:09:27 AM »
I have several among which is a massage habit.  One to two a month.  The saving grace is that I get reimbursed from my FSA and I go to the no ambiance Asian place that is actually willing to put some effort into unknotting my back muscles and helping my blood circulation.  After that, I'll admit to having cable (and Netflix) because I'm not an outdoor person and the evenings are long and full of loneliness.

:-(
Thanks. I might be able to turn this around when I retire and have time and energy at the end of the day to do something about it.

GuitarStv

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2017, 07:29:39 AM »
Does weed count? :)

I'd argue that any powerful psychoactive drug that you can form a dependence on is really something to be quite careful about.  That includes pot, booze, coffee, etc.  Fine for occasional recreational use, but if it's coming up often enough to be a budget line item it's probably best to re-examine your dependency.

mathlete

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2017, 08:34:40 AM »
My Disney habit. There's just something about it. Especially since DH loves it too. We just got back from an extravagant 2 weeks at WDW and heasked me whether we could plan a trip back really soon. I got excited for a minute before I facepunched myself and dragged us back to reality. I'm not completely discounting a trip...but it is rather unlikely at this point. I just don't see how it will work out, even next year. That said, never say never...I'm VERY good at justifying yet another Disney trip!

The Disney parks are an incredible cross-section of artistry, music, design, nature, capitalism, egalitarianism, game theory, and civil, chemical, and electrical engineering.

There are like, a million different levels upon which you can appreciate the parks that go well beyond the thrill of a thrill ride, or getting Mickey's autograph. Not everyone sees that. Which is fine. It is ridiculously expensive.

StarBright

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2017, 08:37:46 AM »
My Disney habit. There's just something about it. Especially since DH loves it too. We just got back from an extravagant 2 weeks at WDW and heasked me whether we could plan a trip back really soon. I got excited for a minute before I facepunched myself and dragged us back to reality. I'm not completely discounting a trip...but it is rather unlikely at this point. I just don't see how it will work out, even next year. That said, never say never...I'm VERY good at justifying yet another Disney trip!

The Disney parks are an incredible cross-section of artistry, music, design, nature, capitalism, egalitarianism, game theory, and civil, chemical, and electrical engineering.

There are like, a million different levels upon which you can appreciate the parks that go well beyond the thrill of a thrill ride, or getting Mickey's autograph. Not everyone sees that. Which is fine. It is ridiculously expensive.

Count me in on the Anti-Mustachian Disney habit for many of the reasons mathlete listed (and they also have amazing customer service!). We love it and are super lucky that my parents are DVC members so we stay on property for a significantly reduced rate.

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2017, 08:38:09 AM »
Does weed count? :)

Only if MMM is anti-Mustachian :)
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FallenTimber

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2017, 10:18:35 AM »
My most un-mustachian habits:

Driving a truck (hay, lumber, towing, etc)
Running a tractor (haven't grown out of my playing in the dirt phase)
Owning horses (eat money and shit work)
Name-brand tools (Dewalt, Makita, etc)
Organic / local food
Taste of the Wild dog food
Splurging on date nights with my wife
Quality cowboy boots
And probably the most un-mustachian of all, owning a ranch for all of our animals to live a happy life on.

PoutineLover

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2017, 10:25:47 AM »
Does weed count? :)

I'd argue that any powerful psychoactive drug that you can form a dependence on is really something to be quite careful about.  That includes pot, booze, coffee, etc.  Fine for occasional recreational use, but if it's coming up often enough to be a budget line item it's probably best to re-examine your dependency.
What's your cutoff for budget line item though? I think spending $40/month on weed, $80/month on alcohol and $20/month on coffee** is not necessarily dependency level, but still worth tracking. Not disagreeing that it's good to be careful about substances though, but just because one spends money on it doesn't mean one has a problem.
**not necessarily my numbers, just putting that out there as a somewhat mid-range example of casual consumption of those substances

GuitarStv

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2017, 02:27:21 PM »
Does weed count? :)

I'd argue that any powerful psychoactive drug that you can form a dependence on is really something to be quite careful about.  That includes pot, booze, coffee, etc.  Fine for occasional recreational use, but if it's coming up often enough to be a budget line item it's probably best to re-examine your dependency.
What's your cutoff for budget line item though? I think spending $40/month on weed, $80/month on alcohol and $20/month on coffee** is not necessarily dependency level, but still worth tracking. Not disagreeing that it's good to be careful about substances though, but just because one spends money on it doesn't mean one has a problem.
**not necessarily my numbers, just putting that out there as a somewhat mid-range example of casual consumption of those substances

Line item in budget is perhaps the wrong term to use.  If I had a crack dealer buddy who gave me free samples it wouldn't be a line item, but probably be considered a problem.


I figure if you feel the need to take a drug more than once a week it's worth examining your dependence.  At the moment I'll have two or sometimes three espressos a week, a beer every couple months . . . so not quite teetotal, but not far off.  :P

My grandfather was a raging alcoholic and it seriously impacted my mom.  It's something I ponder when thinking about consuming chemicals.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 02:29:20 PM by GuitarStv »

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2017, 05:43:02 PM »
Weíre not giving up the housecleaner; we eat out/order in, whenever we want; and, Iím still too generous/giving with family and friends. We make a decent amount and I feel guilty if Iím too cheap/frugal. That said, Iíve still given up my massage habit/love and I truly miss that but something had to give.

I would have a problem with the housecleaner and the food ordering/eating out. Do you do those things because they bring you active enjoyment, or simply because you're too lazy to change things? For example, eating out at a nice restaurant that you've been looking forward to trying, maybe for an event and as a treat, is a pleasure that you will look forward to, enjoy at the time, and remember as a fun thing you did. Grabbing takeout because you're too lazy to cook is something you won't remember or think about afterwards.

The same applies to the housecleaner. Do you come home after they've been and walk around actively luxuriating in the fact that the cleaning is done? Or is it something you don't really think about?

This is how I choose what I spend money on. Yes, I buy a small bunch of flowers every week. I stop and look at them and enjoy them every time I pass. I trim the stems and change the water every day or two so they last (and a flower grower told me to put a few drops of bleach in the water and bin the little sachet of additive the florist gives you, and that makes them last). I enjoy choosing them, I enjoy looking at them, I enjoy caring for them.

Maybe you could learn to enjoy cooking a bit. Maybe you could start a cleaning ritual and cut down on that housecleaner. If you're not actively enjoying something OR you don't need it to make money OR it's not something required to live, DON'T BUY IT.

And what's with the feeling guilty? I know it's hard to be frugal around the spendies, but don't buy into their crap!
Rant over :)

Tass

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2017, 06:09:20 PM »
If you're not actively enjoying something OR you don't need it to make money OR it's not something required to live, DON'T BUY IT.

+1

A far sweeter phrasing of the same idea in the MMM mantra against convenience: "Would you like a bedpan and catheter to go with that?"

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/

Anon in Alaska

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2017, 06:02:07 AM »
I rarely buy used clothing. For decades I went to thrift stores regularly. I always checked the clothing, but I could rarely find things I wanted.

I stopped going once I realized that I was
1) wasting my time looking
2) Spending money on too many books as long as I was there: Wow these are only $0.10 each! That's much cheaper than the used book store and is even cheaper than free books at the library once I account for my time. I should buy a lot! Oh wait, I never read most of them and now I need to de-clutter them.

Now I buy what I want in my size from LL Bean. I might be spending as much as $200 a year.
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MoonLiteNite

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #80 on: October 07, 2017, 02:44:13 AM »
- eating out daily, even though i love to cook, i just love going out and trying something new
- ummm i keep my AC set to like 74f all summer in Texas. But i have solar panels so no extra bill i guess.

edit:
- Ahhh internet, i pay  75$/mo for fiber internet, but i do have 3 roommates and we all game and they watch netflix, so it is kinda "needed" to a degree. I also host tor nodes, so that is my charity work
- Cell phone, i just bought a fancy refurbished 350$ phone. On average i seem to buy one every 4 years.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 02:45:50 AM by MoonLiteNite »

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2017, 03:23:31 AM »
Weíre not giving up the housecleaner; we eat out/order in, whenever we want; and, Iím still too generous/giving with family and friends. We make a decent amount and I feel guilty if Iím too cheap/frugal. That said, Iíve still given up my massage habit/love and I truly miss that but something had to give.

I would have a problem with the housecleaner and the food ordering/eating out. Do you do those things because they bring you active enjoyment, or simply because you're too lazy to change things? For example, eating out at a nice restaurant that you've been looking forward to trying, maybe for an event and as a treat, is a pleasure that you will look forward to, enjoy at the time, and remember as a fun thing you did. Grabbing takeout because you're too lazy to cook is something you won't remember or think about afterwards.

The same applies to the housecleaner. Do you come home after they've been and walk around actively luxuriating in the fact that the cleaning is done? Or is it something you don't really think about?

This is how I choose what I spend money on. Yes, I buy a small bunch of flowers every week. I stop and look at them and enjoy them every time I pass. I trim the stems and change the water every day or two so they last (and a flower grower told me to put a few drops of bleach in the water and bin the little sachet of additive the florist gives you, and that makes them last). I enjoy choosing them, I enjoy looking at them, I enjoy caring for them.

Maybe you could learn to enjoy cooking a bit. Maybe you could start a cleaning ritual and cut down on that housecleaner. If you're not actively enjoying something OR you don't need it to make money OR it's not something required to live, DON'T BUY IT.

And what's with the feeling guilty? I know it's hard to be frugal around the spendies, but don't buy into their crap!
Rant over :)

WTF judgey!  Weíre not lazy, we work our asses off 5 days a week. Iím not about to spend the few hours I have cleaning, when itís something I hate and Iím not great at it. I donít want my partner to do all the work, so the way forward, get a housecleaner, and everyone is happy.

As for ordering in, that I concede is not ideal but again weíre both busy. If I eat for myself, I can eat simple and plain, but doesnít seem fair to put my partner through that. Also, Iím an emotional eater, when work is intense, eating studs I like makes the day a little better. You pick your poisons.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #82 on: October 07, 2017, 05:34:20 AM »
Weíre not giving up the housecleaner; we eat out/order in, whenever we want; and, Iím still too generous/giving with family and friends. We make a decent amount and I feel guilty if Iím too cheap/frugal. That said, Iíve still given up my massage habit/love and I truly miss that but something had to give.

I would have a problem with the housecleaner and the food ordering/eating out. Do you do those things because they bring you active enjoyment, or simply because you're too lazy to change things? For example, eating out at a nice restaurant that you've been looking forward to trying, maybe for an event and as a treat, is a pleasure that you will look forward to, enjoy at the time, and remember as a fun thing you did. Grabbing takeout because you're too lazy to cook is something you won't remember or think about afterwards.

The same applies to the housecleaner. Do you come home after they've been and walk around actively luxuriating in the fact that the cleaning is done? Or is it something you don't really think about?

This is how I choose what I spend money on. Yes, I buy a small bunch of flowers every week. I stop and look at them and enjoy them every time I pass. I trim the stems and change the water every day or two so they last (and a flower grower told me to put a few drops of bleach in the water and bin the little sachet of additive the florist gives you, and that makes them last). I enjoy choosing them, I enjoy looking at them, I enjoy caring for them.

Maybe you could learn to enjoy cooking a bit. Maybe you could start a cleaning ritual and cut down on that housecleaner. If you're not actively enjoying something OR you don't need it to make money OR it's not something required to live, DON'T BUY IT.

And what's with the feeling guilty? I know it's hard to be frugal around the spendies, but don't buy into their crap!
Rant over :)

WTF judgey!  Weíre not lazy, we work our asses off 5 days a week. Iím not about to spend the few hours I have cleaning, when itís something I hate and Iím not great at it. I donít want my partner to do all the work, so the way forward, get a housecleaner, and everyone is happy.

As for ordering in, that I concede is not ideal but again weíre both busy. If I eat for myself, I can eat simple and plain, but doesnít seem fair to put my partner through that. Also, Iím an emotional eater, when work is intense, eating studs I like makes the day a little better. You pick your poisons.

Uh huh.
First I'm judgey.
Then you're so terribly busy.
Then you're doing it for your partner, keeping the peace, emotionally eating, picking your poisons...... etc.
You're on a mustachian site. I can fairly assume from that fact that you might possibly be interested in RE or FI or some combination of the two. Well, you've just identified two areas you could cut down on. You have no great excuse for the spending on those areas. Perhaps you need to rethink that spending. Perhaps you'll think about them and find other ways of dealing with them. Perhaps you'll assess the situation and continue to spend. The point is that you have to keep assessing and reassessing all your spending, all the time.

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #83 on: October 07, 2017, 08:26:12 PM »
[pokes head up above rock to weigh in on house cleaner debate]

Yeah, so, the cleaners are another anti-mustachian habit that I am not willing to give up.  And this is a thread about which anti-mustachian choices people think are worth it.  So while I am completely with Anna in theory, I am with Mr. Different in practice.

The thing is, I'm not going to make any excuses for it.  I do have an actual legit reason for it (allergies = cleaning triggers my asthma).  But let's be straight:  I would have cleaners anyway.  Not because I'm too busy, or because it's a more cost-effective use of my time, or wah-wah-wah.  Just because I fucking hate cleaning.  I grew up spending the first half of every Saturday cleaning the house, and vowing that I would never do that again when I grew up and got a job and had my own money.  I don't get anything resembling zen when I am "in the moment" scrubbing a tub; I get no sense of achievement from seeing the floor dusted, nor do I take the slightest molecule of joy in seeing my space all pristine.  Nope:  cleaning is nothing more than sheer drudgery that is performed solely to comply with basic modern sanitation standards.

And, frankly, I grew up in an era in which the little woman was expected to stay home and cook and clean.  My entire life has been a giant "fuck you" to those expectations.  So at an emotional level, cleaning the house feels less like badassity than it does kowtowing to ancient gender stereotypes.  I earn my money, I take care of my family, and I am damned if I'm going to spend the weekend down on my knees instead of enjoying time with my kids.

So in the realm of anti-mustachian choices that are worth it, cleaners are right up there for me.  I have done the math, I know exactly how much more I need in my 'stache to cover cleaners until I die, and I am more than happy to work that extra couple of months to never have to clean my house again.

That is all.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #84 on: October 07, 2017, 08:52:09 PM »
[pokes head up above rock to weigh in on house cleaner debate]

Yeah, so, the cleaners are another anti-mustachian habit that I am not willing to give up.  And this is a thread about which anti-mustachian choices people think are worth it.  So while I am completely with Anna in theory, I am with Mr. Different in practice.

The thing is, I'm not going to make any excuses for it.  I do have an actual legit reason for it (allergies = cleaning triggers my asthma).  But let's be straight:  I would have cleaners anyway.  Not because I'm too busy, or because it's a more cost-effective use of my time, or wah-wah-wah.  Just because I fucking hate cleaning.  I grew up spending the first half of every Saturday cleaning the house, and vowing that I would never do that again when I grew up and got a job and had my own money.  I don't get anything resembling zen when I am "in the moment" scrubbing a tub; I get no sense of achievement from seeing the floor dusted, nor do I take the slightest molecule of joy in seeing my space all pristine.  Nope:  cleaning is nothing more than sheer drudgery that is performed solely to comply with basic modern sanitation standards.

And, frankly, I grew up in an era in which the little woman was expected to stay home and cook and clean.  My entire life has been a giant "fuck you" to those expectations.  So at an emotional level, cleaning the house feels less like badassity than it does kowtowing to ancient gender stereotypes.  I earn my money, I take care of my family, and I am damned if I'm going to spend the weekend down on my knees instead of enjoying time with my kids.

So in the realm of anti-mustachian choices that are worth it, cleaners are right up there for me.  I have done the math, I know exactly how much more I need in my 'stache to cover cleaners until I die, and I am more than happy to work that extra couple of months to never have to clean my house again.

That is all.

Hahahahhahahhaha. Love the straight, no excuses attitude. I guess I'm the exact same with heating the house!
I understand. I fucking hate cleaning the car. Every time I say I'll take it to a car wash next time. I'm too cheap to actually do it.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #85 on: October 07, 2017, 11:54:28 PM »
[pokes head up above rock to weigh in on house cleaner debate]

Yeah, so, the cleaners are another anti-mustachian habit that I am not willing to give up.  And this is a thread about which anti-mustachian choices people think are worth it.  So while I am completely with Anna in theory, I am with Mr. Different in practice.

The thing is, I'm not going to make any excuses for it.  I do have an actual legit reason for it (allergies = cleaning triggers my asthma).  But let's be straight:  I would have cleaners anyway.  Not because I'm too busy, or because it's a more cost-effective use of my time, or wah-wah-wah.  Just because I fucking hate cleaning.  I grew up spending the first half of every Saturday cleaning the house, and vowing that I would never do that again when I grew up and got a job and had my own money.  I don't get anything resembling zen when I am "in the moment" scrubbing a tub; I get no sense of achievement from seeing the floor dusted, nor do I take the slightest molecule of joy in seeing my space all pristine.  Nope:  cleaning is nothing more than sheer drudgery that is performed solely to comply with basic modern sanitation standards.

And, frankly, I grew up in an era in which the little woman was expected to stay home and cook and clean.  My entire life has been a giant "fuck you" to those expectations.  So at an emotional level, cleaning the house feels less like badassity than it does kowtowing to ancient gender stereotypes.  I earn my money, I take care of my family, and I am damned if I'm going to spend the weekend down on my knees instead of enjoying time with my kids.

So in the realm of anti-mustachian choices that are worth it, cleaners are right up there for me.  I have done the math, I know exactly how much more I need in my 'stache to cover cleaners until I die, and I am more than happy to work that extra couple of months to never have to clean my house again.

That is all.

Preach, sister, preach! ;-)

Hula Hoop

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #86 on: October 08, 2017, 03:11:32 AM »
We're too cheap and frankly too poor to pay for cleaners but our solution is that the house is dirty.  In fact I'm now wasting time rather than getting the vacuum cleaner out for the first time in a couple of months (we have wood and tile floors and we do sweep occasionally so it's not so terrible but there's a small dust village growing under our bed!)

Occasionally, I think about getting cleaners but then I realize that that money would pay for piano lessons for my kid (who loves music) or part of a trip to see my family back home and I get out the broom.  I'm also from a long line of full time working women.  My mother is horrified that we don't have a cleaner but she had a high status relatively high income job whereas I work FT but don't make that much.

Off to vacuum...

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #87 on: October 08, 2017, 09:32:32 AM »
I fucking hate cleaning the car. Every time I say I'll take it to a car wash next time. I'm too cheap to actually do it.

I just have a filthy car. (On the outside. Inside, cleanliness matters at least a little.)

This wouldn't be a problem if it just rained once in a while.

badassprof

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #88 on: October 08, 2017, 09:52:06 AM »
Quote
There's something to be said for challenging yourself, examining your assumptions about what you can't live without, and redefining happiness as something that comes through service to the world instead of through toys and comforts. But I personally believe there's room for both. Balance in all things.

As an alternative perspective, I'll say that personally threads like this are disheartening. Every time I buy something blatantly unnecessary, I curse myself for my weakness - either for being too weak to forgo some hedonistic pleasure or for caving to some implicit social pressure. Everyday I attempt to cull down on my desires and divorce my emotional state from physical objects. Often, I fail. But, I will never stop trying. I know I'll never fully succeed (and that's for the best) but, the reward is in the struggle.

I would never judge others for non-financially suicidal spending but, to me, the value of this site comes from others challenging my own desires. I don't need a whole forum to help me rationalize buying an overpriced bottle of whiskey because I'll "value" it, I can do that plenty well on my own! What I need is people to remind me that there's someone out there who is healthier and wealthier than me because they *didnt* buy that whiskey. Someone worth emulating, even if only in the abstract.

But that's just me.

I think I see this a little differently. Yes, hedonistic spending is problematic, but for me, the part that makes it hedonistic is when I'm doing it unconsciously. For example, I have dogs (2), a weekly house cleaner,  and get my hair cut and colored.  However, what enables me to do that is that I take my lunch everyday, we eat almost all of our meals at home, I don't go out for coffee, and I have a pretty minimalist wardrobe.  It is a trade off that allows me to enjoy those things that are important while, at the same time, saving 50%+ of my income.  That said, I appreciate that isn't the situation for everyone. I definitely have been in times in my life where it was either savings OR those small pleasures.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #89 on: October 08, 2017, 10:07:40 AM »
My largest break with this community is my car. It's small. It's fast. It's German. It regularly costs me 2-4k per year in gas and maintenance. I love it with all my heart. I offer no excuses, but I also sure as fuck ain't selling it for a Civic.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #90 on: October 08, 2017, 11:10:23 PM »
I fucking hate cleaning the car. Every time I say I'll take it to a car wash next time. I'm too cheap to actually do it.

I just have a filthy car.

Brilliantly simple. I'm going to try this one, starting now!

EnjoyIt

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #91 on: October 09, 2017, 11:47:21 PM »
I fucking hate cleaning the car. Every time I say I'll take it to a car wash next time. I'm too cheap to actually do it.

I just have a filthy car.

Brilliantly simple. I'm going to try this one, starting now!

Having a clean car is stressful.  You just washed it and you are forced to drive through a puddle, or it drizzles making your hard work worthless.  Plus, you sit inside the car, not outside.  Who cares what it looks like from out there?  I try and keep the inside of the car decent for myself.

Khaetra

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2017, 05:20:21 AM »
I fucking hate cleaning the car. Every time I say I'll take it to a car wash next time. I'm too cheap to actually do it.

I just have a filthy car.

Brilliantly simple. I'm going to try this one, starting now!

Having a clean car is stressful.  You just washed it and you are forced to drive through a puddle, or it drizzles making your hard work worthless.  Plus, you sit inside the car, not outside.  Who cares what it looks like from out there?  I try and keep the inside of the car decent for myself.

I love having a clean car, both inside and out.  I am one of those who washes weekly and waxes monthly, more often during Lovebug season though as they will eat your paint if you don't get them off right away.  I need to give it a good buffing too, but I'll wait until it's a bit cooler out for that.

Vegasgirl

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #93 on: October 10, 2017, 07:13:03 AM »
We have a house cleaner.  We both work full time and a couple years ago it was decided that, if we couldn't divide up duties equally then it shouldn't all fall on one of us.  I'm fully willing and able to take over duties once RE.

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #94 on: October 10, 2017, 08:24:45 AM »
I pay $3 or $5 for someone else to gather all my groceries, check them through, bring them to my car, and load 'er up :)
Fan-freakin'tastic!
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Free Spirit

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #95 on: October 10, 2017, 08:41:42 AM »
I pay $3 or $5 for someone else to gather all my groceries, check them through, bring them to my car, and load 'er up :)
Fan-freakin'tastic!

My local grocery store has started offering this service and I'm seriously considering it. I get sensory overload (to the point of meltdown sometimes) at the grocery store so this would be totally worth it to me. The problem lies in my need to control exactly which item I pick out of the available options. I'm that person that will weigh 4 different 5lb bags of potatoes to see which one is actually 5lbs. Are the people picking out my vegetables going to notice bad spots on the bell peppers? Am I going to end up with a head of lettuce that weighs less than a marshmallow?!

sigh
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jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #96 on: October 10, 2017, 08:52:59 AM »
I get sensory overload (to the point of meltdown sometimes) at the grocery store

Yep, this is exactly why I opted for it. Cheapest path to weeks of neurological ease! :)
(Wait...So maybe it IS Mustachian...)

Yeah, another forum member said their need to be very selective (in their case, for good, discounted produce) makes it a no-go, and two people I know have been unhappy with Superstore's selections of fresh produce. I've always been very particular about what I get, but more in things like brands (no name!), cheapest per volume, sizes, etc. My needs are easily met through this system.
I'm FIRE: Financially Intact, Rejuvenating Everyday

ketchup

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #97 on: October 10, 2017, 09:12:25 AM »
I get sensory overload (to the point of meltdown sometimes) at the grocery store

Yep, this is exactly why I opted for it. Cheapest path to weeks of neurological ease! :)
(Wait...So maybe it IS Mustachian...)

Yeah, another forum member said their need to be very selective (in their case, for good, discounted produce) makes it a no-go, and two people I know have been unhappy with Superstore's selections of fresh produce. I've always been very particular about what I get, but more in things like brands (no name!), cheapest per volume, sizes, etc. My needs are easily met through this system.
Amazon Fresh is in my area and works shockingly well (and their prices are actually sane, which I was not expecting - the only clear markup is on meat and frozen foods, presumably since packing that is a pain).  Also, when I bitched about partially-smashed raspberries (maybe 20% of them were smashed but enough to make a mess) and an unripe avocado sold as "ripe" they refunded me for them.

talltexan

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #98 on: October 10, 2017, 09:21:38 AM »
A long-distance romantic relationship sounds un-mustachian to me. There have GOT to be romantic partners who are 60%-80% as good within five miles of you. Collect about three or four of them instead :-)

mm1970

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Re: Anti mustachian habits that are worth it to you?
« Reply #99 on: October 10, 2017, 10:35:41 AM »
[pokes head up above rock to weigh in on house cleaner debate]

Yeah, so, the cleaners are another anti-mustachian habit that I am not willing to give up.  And this is a thread about which anti-mustachian choices people think are worth it.  So while I am completely with Anna in theory, I am with Mr. Different in practice.

The thing is, I'm not going to make any excuses for it.  I do have an actual legit reason for it (allergies = cleaning triggers my asthma).  But let's be straight:  I would have cleaners anyway.  Not because I'm too busy, or because it's a more cost-effective use of my time, or wah-wah-wah.  Just because I fucking hate cleaning.  I grew up spending the first half of every Saturday cleaning the house, and vowing that I would never do that again when I grew up and got a job and had my own money.  I don't get anything resembling zen when I am "in the moment" scrubbing a tub; I get no sense of achievement from seeing the floor dusted, nor do I take the slightest molecule of joy in seeing my space all pristine.  Nope:  cleaning is nothing more than sheer drudgery that is performed solely to comply with basic modern sanitation standards.

And, frankly, I grew up in an era in which the little woman was expected to stay home and cook and clean.  My entire life has been a giant "fuck you" to those expectations.  So at an emotional level, cleaning the house feels less like badassity than it does kowtowing to ancient gender stereotypes.  I earn my money, I take care of my family, and I am damned if I'm going to spend the weekend down on my knees instead of enjoying time with my kids.

So in the realm of anti-mustachian choices that are worth it, cleaners are right up there for me.  I have done the math, I know exactly how much more I need in my 'stache to cover cleaners until I die, and I am more than happy to work that extra couple of months to never have to clean my house again.

That is all.
+1000.

Right now to the "little woman" expectations and all that.  Fuck that.  I do 90% of the cooking, he does 90% of the laundry, we split the dishes.  Everything else we pay for.

OH, and I have a produce delivery service weekly.  Used to have a CSA  (it shut down due to the drought).  This is more expensive, obv, because they go to the farmer's market for you and you pay a delivery.  Don't care!!

"But my wife says that strolling thru the market, testing the samples, choosing your stuff - best part!"  Uh huh, and I like getting a doz local eggs for $6 instead of $8.  BUT ... your wife doesn't have a full time job and two elementary school kids.  I get 1.5 hours to myself Sat morning, and I'm using it to go running, not shop at the farmer's market.