Author Topic: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan  (Read 7798 times)

TheContinentalOp

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If I choose to put U$1040 in the FSA for next year, all the money will be available on Jan 1st, but each paycheck will have U$40 deducted. So if I quit in March (as is the current plan) I'll about be ahead U$700 or so in "Free" money. I have 30 days after my employment ends to use the funds before they are lost. You used to have all year to use the money, but in 2017 we had a guy quit in mid-January. He got full use of the money for the cost of 1 or 2 paycheck deductions. They weren't going to let that happen again.

So am I a jerk, if I deliberately overstuff the FSA, knowing I'm leaving, and stock up on glasses and contacts?


Paul der Krake

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2020, 04:20:47 PM »
Nah. You didn't design the match structure and are taking full advantage of it.

But you're the greater fool if you buy anywhere near that amount of glasses and contacts in the age of internet glasses makers.

geekette

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2020, 04:25:25 PM »
I wish I could get internet glasses.  Or even Costco glasses.  What do you mean you don't stock my -14.5 prescription???

BTW, if employees don't use the money, the company gets to keep it. I'm betting they come out ahead most years.

Jack0Life

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2020, 05:01:56 PM »
If I choose to put U$1040 in the FSA for next year, all the money will be available on Jan 1st, but each paycheck will have U$40 deducted. So if I quit in March (as is the current plan) I'll about be ahead U$700 or so in "Free" money. I have 30 days after my employment ends to use the funds before they are lost. You used to have all year to use the money, but in 2017 we had a guy quit in mid-January. He got full use of the money for the cost of 1 or 2 paycheck deductions. They weren't going to let that happen again.

So am I a jerk, if I deliberately overstuff the FSA, knowing I'm leaving, and stock up on glasses and contacts?

This is funny because my wife works for a benefit company and she told me about this loophole before.

PDXTabs

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2020, 05:06:42 PM »
Don't feel bad, for every person like you there is a person like me who accidentally quits with money left in their FSA that they can't use.

bigblock440

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2020, 08:13:30 PM »
Are you sure they don't just take it from your last paycheck?  The one year I had an FSA, I believe that's what they said they did. 

Need2Save

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2020, 11:06:54 AM »
Benefits Manager here.  It is true that there are certainly nearly as many people who leave with taking more than they contributed as those who forfeit some money because they failed to plan their expenses or ended up leaving the company suddenly unplanned.  Our company has probably health care 3,000 FSA participants and the winners and losers come to only about a $20k difference each year.  My company pays far above that just to administer the plan itself so it's not a windfall for the company by any means when funds are forfeited.  The forfeits help offset the folks that received more than they contributed. 

You are definitely not a jerk and are just following the plan rules.  I will personally be deploying this strategy in my final year as well.

Health care FSA and dependent care FSA are different beasts though.  You cannot do this with a dependent care FSA as you have to fund it before you can claim it.  It sounds like you know that, but some others may be confused.

 

the_fixer

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2020, 03:22:09 PM »
You are not being a jerk or even taking advantage that is the way it is designed and written.

My wife has worked for 2 different companies that were either closing or laying people off and the HR at each place told everyone to make sure they used their FSA money or it would be lost. In one case they knew they were closing the office right after the first of the year and told everyone to make sure to signup if they had anything major that would be covered and use it ASAP - She had Lasik done and the FSA covered a big portion of it.   

secondcor521

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2020, 04:25:12 PM »
Are you sure they don't just take it from your last paycheck?  The one year I had an FSA, I believe that's what they said they did.

If an employer did so, it would be in error.

I did the strategy that the OP described in my last year.  Signed up for the max in the fall, retired in February, used it all up, didn't have to pay it back.  Didn't feel guilty - if they don't like me following the rules then they can change them.

skiersailor

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2020, 05:01:57 PM »
Small business owner here. Yes, you’re being a jerk if you take more money from the FSA account than you put in. The only reason you can get away with it is because the federal rules are set up this way, and businesses who want to provide this benefit for their employees can’t make their own rules.

You might be surprised to know how often owners face the problem of trying to be generous only to be taken advantage of by a few who think they are entitled to everything they can get away with. It happens with fraudulent workers compensation claims, attendance issues, low performance, theft of office supplies and tools - you name it. If it weren’t for these few employees we wouldn’t need employee manuals or HR departments. Please don’t contribute to the problem.

This year my business is likely to experience historic losses. I could easily lay everyone off, sell the property and retire comfortably. So why don’t I?  One reason is that I feel some obligation to continue providing employment to many loyal and honest employees who may not be able to find work in this economy. But if everyone started behaving the way you are contemplating, I would be much more inclined to shut it down and walk away.  Fortunately, the vast majority of my employees understand that we are in this together and behave accordingly.

I’m glad you asked the question because it indicates that you feel guilty about it. Trust your instincts.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 07:50:47 PM by skiersailor »

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2020, 09:30:37 PM »
The business will not give two hoots about you if they decide your skills no longer match their needs. Take the money and run.

Dicey

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2020, 09:22:18 AM »
But you're the greater fool if you buy anywhere near that amount of glasses and contacts in the age of internet glasses makers.
Paul, this comment seems unlike you and feels like a clear Rule #1 violation. My vision problems are hereditary, and glasses to correct are specialized and expen-$ive. How on earth does that make me or anyone like me a "fool"? Did I/we unwisely choose the wrong parents?

On a related but inverse note, due to the difficulty of spending during the pandemic, many companies are extending the spend period and/or the amount that can be rolled over. Be sure to check.

And @skiersailor, if I worked for a small company, I'd probably feel the same way. But DH works for a very large company, and is union. Everything is negotiated to the nth degree. The employees know every loophole and the company knows they do. For example, the healthcare stipend for full-pension retirees hasn't increased in twenty years. Retirees do not get "free" healthcare, but they are allowed to stay on the company's healthcare plan if they make up the difference OOP. Want to guess how much the cost has risen in twenty years? IMO, it all evens out.

DH will retire in the first half of the year. You bet we will plan accordingly. It's not like the money will be spent on a trip to Vegas. It will be used for health care. DH has put off bunion surgery because he doesn't want to take that much time off work. He has very wide feet and in the first few years of this job, the company mandated footwear simply wasn't wide enough. The problem developed over time, but by the time the company's footwear restrictions eased, the damage was done. Hell yes, we're going to "take advantage" to correct the problem.

Sibley

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2020, 11:09:53 AM »
But you're the greater fool if you buy anywhere near that amount of glasses and contacts in the age of internet glasses makers.
Paul, this comment seems unlike you and feels like a clear Rule #1 violation. My vision problems are hereditary, and glasses to correct are specialized and expen-$ive. How on earth does that make me or anyone like me a "fool"? Did I/we unwisely choose the wrong parents?

On a related but inverse note, due to the difficulty of spending during the pandemic, many companies are extending the spend period and/or the amount that can be rolled over. Be sure to check.

And @skiersailor, if I worked for a small company, I'd probably feel the same way. But DH works for a very large company, and is union. Everything is negotiated to the nth degree. The employees know every loophole and the company knows they do. For example, the healthcare stipend for full-pension retirees hasn't increased in twenty years. Retirees do not get "free" healthcare, but they are allowed to stay on the company's healthcare plan if they make up the difference OOP. Want to guess how much the cost has risen in twenty years? IMO, it all evens out.

DH will retire in the first half of the year. You bet we will plan accordingly. It's not like the money will be spent on a trip to Vegas. It will be used for health care. DH has put off bunion surgery because he doesn't want to take that much time off work. He has very wide feet and in the first few years of this job, the company mandated footwear simply wasn't wide enough. The problem developed over time, but by the time the company's footwear restrictions eased, the damage was done. Hell yes, we're going to "take advantage" to correct the problem.

My mother's glasses last I heard were around $700 - just for the lenses. And no, the internet glasses places can't make them. I'm guessing Paul isn't aware of the extreme cost that having very poor vision can entail. Not to mention things like cataract surgery (which is most definitely not cosmetic), or the eye surgery my mother is having tomorrow that is a bid to prevent her from going blind in that eye. Hopefully he doesn't find out the hard way.

mathlete

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2020, 11:52:15 AM »
Absolutely not! Get your’s bud.

slappy

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2020, 03:42:18 PM »
But you're the greater fool if you buy anywhere near that amount of glasses and contacts in the age of internet glasses makers.
Paul, this comment seems unlike you and feels like a clear Rule #1 violation. My vision problems are hereditary, and glasses to correct are specialized and expen-$ive. How on earth does that make me or anyone like me a "fool"? Did I/we unwisely choose the wrong parents?

On a related but inverse note, due to the difficulty of spending during the pandemic, many companies are extending the spend period and/or the amount that can be rolled over. Be sure to check.

And @skiersailor, if I worked for a small company, I'd probably feel the same way. But DH works for a very large company, and is union. Everything is negotiated to the nth degree. The employees know every loophole and the company knows they do. For example, the healthcare stipend for full-pension retirees hasn't increased in twenty years. Retirees do not get "free" healthcare, but they are allowed to stay on the company's healthcare plan if they make up the difference OOP. Want to guess how much the cost has risen in twenty years? IMO, it all evens out.

DH will retire in the first half of the year. You bet we will plan accordingly. It's not like the money will be spent on a trip to Vegas. It will be used for health care. DH has put off bunion surgery because he doesn't want to take that much time off work. He has very wide feet and in the first few years of this job, the company mandated footwear simply wasn't wide enough. The problem developed over time, but by the time the company's footwear restrictions eased, the damage was done. Hell yes, we're going to "take advantage" to correct the problem.

I took it to be kind of a joke, but it did sting a little. We pay so much for contacts, and that's with me shopping around, using coupon codes and using cash back sites like ebates. Of course when both spouses wear contacts, the cost is doubled. Luckily we can use the internet glasses. I suppose I could switch from daily contacts to monthlies, but for me the benefit to me is great, and I feel it is worth it.

phildonnia

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2020, 02:56:37 PM »
I asked a similar question here:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/overdrawn-medical-fsa-on-mid-year-separation/msg2720547/#msg2720547

The standard answer seems to be that this is part of the benefit, and the risk to your employer is all rolled into your compensation package.

There's a lot of appeal to "if you didn't use it all, you'd lose your contribution, so it's only fair."  But I'm uncomfortable with this.  If we were talking about insurance, and someone was asking if it was okay to burn the house down after one month and claim a benefit, then surely no one would be justifying this by pointing out that there's lots of people who lose their premiums.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2020, 03:10:58 PM »
I asked a similar question here:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/overdrawn-medical-fsa-on-mid-year-separation/msg2720547/#msg2720547

The standard answer seems to be that this is part of the benefit, and the risk to your employer is all rolled into your compensation package.

There's a lot of appeal to "if you didn't use it all, you'd lose your contribution, so it's only fair."  But I'm uncomfortable with this.  If we were talking about insurance, and someone was asking if it was okay to burn the house down after one month and claim a benefit, then surely no one would be justifying this by pointing out that there's lots of people who lose their premiums.
Arson is a crime.
Insurance fraud is a crime.

Leaving your employer at a time that benefits you is not a crime.

The law is not a perfect guide to morality, but usually if you commit a crime, the presumption is that you are a jerk.

Jack0Life

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2020, 09:41:57 PM »
If I choose to put U$1040 in the FSA for next year, all the money will be available on Jan 1st, but each paycheck will have U$40 deducted. So if I quit in March (as is the current plan) I'll about be ahead U$700 or so in "Free" money. I have 30 days after my employment ends to use the funds before they are lost. You used to have all year to use the money, but in 2017 we had a guy quit in mid-January. He got full use of the money for the cost of 1 or 2 paycheck deductions. They weren't going to let that happen again.

So am I a jerk, if I deliberately overstuff the FSA, knowing I'm leaving, and stock up on glasses and contacts?

This is funny because my wife works for a benefit company and she told me about this loophole before.

So my wife is planning to quit sometimes in 2021.
She signed up for the full $2750.

rantk81

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2020, 06:06:03 AM »
Earlier this year I switched jobs.  At my prior job, when I enrolled in the 2020 benefits, I had no idea I'd be switching jobs mid-year in 2020.

However, When I decided to switch jobs, I had a few hundred bucks left in the FSA.  So in my last week of employment, you better believe I ordered a nice pair of prescription sunglasses!

By the River

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2020, 06:55:21 AM »
I would use the rules as written and spend the FSA.   In a similar vein, my company added AFLAC in 2020.  One can buy a hospital payout that pays you $1000 for an admission and $150 per day stay for a monthly premium.  My coworker was pregnant during last year's enrollment and paid for this option because she knew she would be in at least a night. She is not taking that option this year.  Totally fair in my eyes.

frugalnacho

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2020, 07:21:09 AM »
I asked a similar question here:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/overdrawn-medical-fsa-on-mid-year-separation/msg2720547/#msg2720547

The standard answer seems to be that this is part of the benefit, and the risk to your employer is all rolled into your compensation package.

There's a lot of appeal to "if you didn't use it all, you'd lose your contribution, so it's only fair."  But I'm uncomfortable with this.  If we were talking about insurance, and someone was asking if it was okay to burn the house down after one month and claim a benefit, then surely no one would be justifying this by pointing out that there's lots of people who lose their premiums.

Arson and insurance fraud are crimes though; it is never ok to burn the house down in order to file a claim.  I think a much better analogy would be that you have some serious health issues that need to be taken care of, and you wait until you have full coverage medical insurance from your employer.  Or you decide to front load a ton of medical stuff into the last month of your insurance before FIRE. 

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2020, 08:29:24 AM »
I you've probably framed it right with "jerk"-ish.  Obviously not criminal, and not where I would use the term immoral. 

Of course, the follow up to that is I have no issue with being a jerk to someone who has been a jerk to me (as opposed to doing something immoral/wrong).  I think my current employer has treated me fairly, so I wouldn't do it.  If I felt wronged, I probably would.  E.g. having nice meal out with your family and intentionally not tipping the waiter in the US is being a jerk.  This one just stands out more because its a pretty big tip....

mikemagz11

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2020, 09:32:47 AM »
Wouldn't even think twice about doing this. What if your current plan of leaving in March changes? Hold off until making your actual decision until January so you can feel less guilty if that's a worry.

Dicey

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2020, 04:31:49 PM »
I you've probably framed it right with "jerk"-ish.  Obviously not criminal, and not where I would use the term immoral. 

Of course, the follow up to that is I have no issue with being a jerk to someone who has been a jerk to me (as opposed to doing something immoral/wrong).  I think my current employer has treated me fairly, so I wouldn't do it.  If I felt wronged, I probably would.  E.g. having nice meal out with your family and intentionally not tipping the waiter in the US is being a jerk.  This one just stands out more because its a pretty big tip....
Dunno, I don't think following the rules that you had no hand in establishing is jerkish.

Car Jack

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2020, 08:36:07 AM »
I was once pushed out of a company (they noticed that I was over 50, all of a sudden).  I felt no regret leaving in April and taking the entire FSA amount.  F them.

obstinate

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2020, 10:27:51 AM »
Better read the fine print and make sure there's no claw back provisions.

TomTX

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2020, 06:20:43 PM »
Better read the fine print and make sure there's no claw back provisions.
No, it's part of the general over-complicated bullshit of the FSA. On the back end - if you don't spend it, you lose it*. On the front end, if you spend it (and leave) you keep it.

Just let everyone use an HSA, dump all the other dumb similar plans and dumb restrictions.

*Depending on the plan you may be able to carry over $500 or have a short grace period in the new FY to spend.

projekt

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2020, 02:42:42 PM »
I once decided to get LASIK, so I maxed out the FSA. I then got a great job offer in the beginning of the year. I didn’t know the rules and went to HR to ask if I could contribute more so I could save on taxes. They were like, no, all the money is there. If you leave before paying it all back, you win. I left in April, so I saved 70%.

Unless it’s a tiny company, they’ll probably not even notice. But it’s also just the deal. They knew it getting into it.

By way of karma, I later got screwed by a HDHP/HSA law fine print.

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2020, 06:49:39 AM »
I you've probably framed it right with "jerk"-ish.  Obviously not criminal, and not where I would use the term immoral. 

Of course, the follow up to that is I have no issue with being a jerk to someone who has been a jerk to me (as opposed to doing something immoral/wrong).  I think my current employer has treated me fairly, so I wouldn't do it.  If I felt wronged, I probably would.  E.g. having nice meal out with your family and intentionally not tipping the waiter in the US is being a jerk.  This one just stands out more because its a pretty big tip....
Dunno, I don't think following the rules that you had no hand in establishing is jerkish.
MMM, I can't say I agree.  If my finances are in great shape and I get great service at a restaurant in the US and I don't tip the waiter, I've definitely followed "the rules".... and been a jerk (just my opinion obviously of this subjective term).  Again, just a jerk, nothing worse in my vocabulary.  If someone from a country that doesn't normally tip doesn't tip, they are not being a jerk, just like if someone takes advantage of the OP's suggestion and doesn't realize it its not like they are being a jerk.

Dicey

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2020, 11:23:53 AM »
I you've probably framed it right with "jerk"-ish.  Obviously not criminal, and not where I would use the term immoral. 

Of course, the follow up to that is I have no issue with being a jerk to someone who has been a jerk to me (as opposed to doing something immoral/wrong).  I think my current employer has treated me fairly, so I wouldn't do it.  If I felt wronged, I probably would.  E.g. having nice meal out with your family and intentionally not tipping the waiter in the US is being a jerk.  This one just stands out more because its a pretty big tip....
Dunno, I don't think following the rules that you had no hand in establishing is jerkish.
MMM, I can't say I agree.  If my finances are in great shape and I get great service at a restaurant in the US and I don't tip the waiter, I've definitely followed "the rules".... and been a jerk (just my opinion obviously of this subjective term).  Again, just a jerk, nothing worse in my vocabulary.  If someone from a country that doesn't normally tip doesn't tip, they are not being a jerk, just like if someone takes advantage of the OP's suggestion and doesn't realize it its not like they are being a jerk.
Mmm, I think that's a weak analogy. You're conflating customs with rules. Huge difference.

DeniseNJ

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2020, 07:36:03 AM »
I was just a benefits seminar where they specifically said that if you are planning on retiring or leaving your job, be sure to use all of your FSA money in your account--not just what you've paid but all of it.  This is the way the law is written and is in no way being a jerk. It is written into the benefit. It's how it works. It's not an oversight by whoever wrote the rules--it's part of the program.

nirodha

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2021, 05:42:47 PM »
Can I ask what people are using to drain the FSA?

I signed up for the max contribution, thinking I'd use the system. But, I'm finding other than a couple hundred bucks in general medical care, there's not much to buy. Is there a strategy for maximizing this benefit?

kanga1622

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2021, 07:17:56 PM »
Can I ask what people are using to drain the FSA?

I signed up for the max contribution, thinking I'd use the system. But, I'm finding other than a couple hundred bucks in general medical care, there's not much to buy. Is there a strategy for maximizing this benefit?

You are just really healthy or have a plan with a low deductible. My family of 4 will blow through $4000 in our FSA easily. 4 people with glasses, 2 people on daily medication, 1 person with labs every 3-4 months to monitor medications, and 1 person at high cancer risk so screened every 6 months. Add in chiropractic adjustments and a few childhood illnesses (strep, ear infection, stitches from random falls). And DH was kind enough to start our plan year with an ER trip for a kidney stone during the first week this year.

We have a whole new plan option coming out in our new plan year so we have been tracking our expenses much more closely now to help us pick the best plan.

secondcor521

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2021, 12:39:30 AM »
Can I ask what people are using to drain the FSA?

I signed up for the max contribution, thinking I'd use the system. But, I'm finding other than a couple hundred bucks in general medical care, there's not much to buy. Is there a strategy for maximizing this benefit?

Two tricks:

1.  Figure out how much you can use based on IRS Pub 502 (see https://www.irs.gov/publications/p502#en_US_2019_publink1000178851).  There are a lot of things that qualify that you may not immediately think of.

2.  Only contribute what you know you can use.


Dicey

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2021, 01:00:03 AM »
This might be TMI, but hey, you asked. Things DH and I have used our FSA for in the last few years:
Orthodontia
Retainers
One extra teeth cleaning per year
Orthotics
Expensive High-index Eyeglass lenses (I do not mean trendy designer frames.)
Super expensive travel batteries for our c-paps to use when camping
Non-formulary meds for Roseacea
Laser treatment for Roseacea that our HMO considers non-essential.
Occasional visit to out of network dermatologist who has thirty years of records, photos and, body maps. He is much more thorough than the HMO and not unreasonably expensive for the peace of mind it provides.
One year, we had about $100 left at the very end, so we bought a bunch of sunscreen at Walmart.

Now we can roll over $500 per year. Because of the pandemic, I believe the rollover amounts are even higher.

DeniseNJ

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2021, 06:53:30 AM »
Don't forget travel to and from medical appts.

We used our FSA for copays for doc visits and prescriptions, deductible, dentist, glasses, and out of network providers.

Nutty

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2021, 07:48:28 AM »
This might be TMI, but hey, you asked. Things DH and I have used our FSA for in the last few years:

Super expensive travel batteries for our c-paps to use when camping


One year, we had about $100 left at the very end, so we bought a bunch of sunscreen at Walmart.

Now we can roll over $500 per year. Because of the pandemic, I believe the rollover amounts are even higher.

I now have a quest to find c-pap battery for camping because generators suck.

The FSA also goes to over the counter medications, cough syrup, allergy meds, band aids, first aid supplies and a lot of stuff in Walgreens/CVA or what have you in your area.  One year I went a bought several boxes of band aids for the medicine cabinet and was surprised the FSA covered it with the perspcriptions.  If you use OTC meds, stock up.  Check expiration dates if that bothers you.

nirodha

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2021, 08:16:41 AM »
I mean using up the account in the first month or two of the year. In our case, the employer insurance that includes the healthcare FSA has a $750 deductible. The doctor visits all go to copays. Same with drugs. The policy is stupid expensive, but makes sense when short timing it.

I've run through a preventive medical visits checklist - physical, blood work, eye doctor, dermatologist, dentist. Billing takes time to arrive, but FSA access stops the day work stops. It's a factor in determining when I stop working. This seems to make more doctoring time prohibitive. We are trying to get quarterly Rx's, where we can.

But burning through the full $2750 this way seems unrealistic.

I looked into buying dental memberships at our preferred dentist. Those seem to maybe be covered. But - they are expensive ($468 per person), 80% of list prices for work (much higher than an insurer's negotiated rate), and would be viewed as a gap in dental insurance. It doesn't seem like a win.

Do I buy $2000 of advil and condoms? It seems petty, and I noticed there are stock piling rules:

https://fsastore.com/learn/basics/real-money-stockpile

I see that site has "I give up" pricing, where they charge double or triple to people just seeking to empty the account.

It's admittedly a good problem to have, but I don't like leaving money on the table.

Dicey

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2021, 10:54:11 AM »
I mean using up the account in the first month or two of the year. In our case, the employer insurance that includes the healthcare FSA has a $750 deductible. The doctor visits all go to copays. Same with drugs. The policy is stupid expensive, but makes sense when short timing it.

I've run through a preventive medical visits checklist - physical, blood work, eye doctor, dermatologist, dentist. Billing takes time to arrive, but FSA access stops the day work stops. It's a factor in determining when I stop working. This seems to make more doctoring time prohibitive. We are trying to get quarterly Rx's, where we can.

But burning through the full $2750 this way seems unrealistic.

I looked into buying dental memberships at our preferred dentist. Those seem to maybe be covered. But - they are expensive ($468 per person), 80% of list prices for work (much higher than an insurer's negotiated rate), and would be viewed as a gap in dental insurance. It doesn't seem like a win.

Do I buy $2000 of advil and condoms? It seems petty, and I noticed there are stock piling rules:

https://fsastore.com/learn/basics/real-money-stockpile

I see that site has "I give up" pricing, where they charge double or triple to people just seeking to empty the account.

It's admittedly a good problem to have, but I don't like leaving money on the table.
We have dental insurance and an FSA. When I go to the dentist, i charge the entire visit on the FSA, then they submit the bill to insurance. This usually results in a credit balance on my in-house account That's how i cover the third visit each year. It's a loophole that i don't mind exploiting, because I use it for legitimate medical care.

Dreamer40

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2021, 07:23:10 PM »
At the federal retirement seminar I went to, the benefits specialist explicitly told us about this quirk and said to feel free to take advantage of it.

slappy

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2021, 09:48:05 AM »
Sorry for the thread hijack-does anyone know if I can use my FSA money to buy fiber gummies for my four year old? They are doctor recommended for his constipation issues, and not terribly expensive, but not exactly cheap either.

phildonnia

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2021, 12:37:05 PM »
Sorry for the thread hijack-does anyone know if I can use my FSA money to buy fiber gummies for my four year old? They are doctor recommended for his constipation issues, and not terribly expensive, but not exactly cheap either.

In theory, this should be eligible, but there may be some administrative hurdles to get through.  I know the CARES act allowed certain kinds of over-the-counter expenses to be allowed without a prescription, but I don't know if this qualifies or if the provisions are still valid in 2021.

I'd ask the FSA administrator (before you purchase!) what they would require to make this eligible.  You may need to get a note from the doctor on their prescription stationery.  Somehow or other, you should be able to use your FSA.

Dicey

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2021, 09:05:19 PM »
Sorry for the thread hijack-does anyone know if I can use my FSA money to buy fiber gummies for my four year old? They are doctor recommended for his constipation issues, and not terribly expensive, but not exactly cheap either.
Our FSA has a website that contains very specific lists.  If yours does, it will very likely be the most accurate resource.

slappy

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2021, 08:18:32 AM »
Sorry for the thread hijack-does anyone know if I can use my FSA money to buy fiber gummies for my four year old? They are doctor recommended for his constipation issues, and not terribly expensive, but not exactly cheap either.
Our FSA has a website that contains very specific lists.  If yours does, it will very likely be the most accurate resource.

Mine has a list, but it doesn't seem to be very specific. I'll have to dig around and see if there is something more specific somewhere on the site. The one I saw seems to be just an IRS, and I didn't see anything there that I thought the fiber would fall under. I'm thinking either vitamins or supplements and I didn't see those on the list.

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2021, 08:41:22 AM »
Today I learned the FSA vendor has an algorithm that monitors transactions and flags some for substantiation. It also turns out 2021 FSA dollars cannot be used to pay a medical bill from 2020.

Dicey

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2021, 09:12:55 AM »
Today I learned the FSA vendor has an algorithm that monitors transactions and flags some for substantiation. It also turns out 2021 FSA dollars cannot be used to pay a medical bill from 2020.
Nope, that's just been changed due to the pandemic. Any unused FSA funds from 2020 will automatically roll into 2021. No "use it or lose it" this year and IIRC, 2022. The algorithm will need to be updated. You can contact your HR or just try again in a couple of weeks, or both.

@slappy , now that I think about it, if a vitamin is recommended, it's generally not covered, but if it's prescribed by an MD, it may be allowed. You will most likely have to submit manually for reimbursement.

nirodha

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2021, 02:32:49 PM »
This is my first year with a healthcare FSA. That is why I think the 2020 bill will be rejected from substantiation. I did still submit it.

My wife and I went through the fsastore.com website and hit a little over $700 pretty easy. Now that I understand the FSA rules better, their high prices make sense, in light of the eligibility guarantee. We found a lot of items in the "I wonder..." and "I always wanted to try..." categories.


nirodha

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2021, 08:03:19 PM »
I have learned:

1. Access to the FSA account persists past employment. If bills arrive later in the year, that's ok.
2. Service dates of charges must be within the effective period.
3. The effective period ends by default on the last day of employment. Some employers arrange for an alternate end date (ie last day of the month).
4. Burning the money against your insurance deductible is easier said than done. The expensive policy that accompanies eligibility for a healthcare FSA (at least in my case) covers most in network drugs and doctors immediately, with a small copay.
5. FSAStore carries a lot of mediocre, overpriced stuff. Most of it, I'd never pick with "real" money.
6. The benefits administrator was very clear - the full year's contribution is mine to use, prior to leaving the job. I'd even say they encouraged it.
7. Most of the coolest FSA eligible stuff (ie massage, gym membership, etc.) requires a doctor's note.
8. Buying more than 3 of anything triggers stockpiling rules. Don't do it.
9. Pre-paying for services isn't allowed. Our insurance policy wouldn't even allow the doctor to order multiple months of expensive Rx.
10. As others in the thread suggested, new glasses can provide an expense. We use Zenni though, so it only burned a couple hundred dollars.

In the end, because I don't want to stress over substantiation or hassle our doctors, we spent the vast majority at FSAStore. Finding enough wants required reaching out to family. With quitting so early in the year, maxing the account was still a good deal. I'd be pissed if it was my real pre-tax dollars going to FSAStore.

A high deductible plan plus HSA makes far more sense financial sense, if we would have been under employer insurance all year.

There's probably an angle where someone could buy the expensive FSAStore items, then sell them used. Breast pump, stethoscope, wheel chair, etc. Hard to say it'd be worth the hassle, especially during covid times. Maybe donating product would work well, for the more charitable minded.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 08:05:02 PM by nirodha »

phildonnia

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2021, 09:53:03 AM »
Today I learned the FSA vendor has an algorithm that monitors transactions and flags some for substantiation. It also turns out 2021 FSA dollars cannot be used to pay a medical bill from 2020.
Nope, that's just been changed due to the pandemic. Any unused FSA funds from 2020 will automatically roll into 2021. No "use it or lose it" this year and IIRC, 2022. The algorithm will need to be updated. You can contact your HR or just try again in a couple of weeks, or both.

I think they were saying that a new FSA started in 2021 cannot be used to pay for 2020 expenses.  That's still true as far as I know. 

Also, the automatic roll-over from 2020 to 2021 is permitted by law, but I don't think there is a requirement that individual plans actually do it. (Mine does, my wife's does not).

ducky19

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Re: Am I a Jerk for Taking Unfair Advantage of My Company's FSA Plan
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2021, 10:08:02 AM »
But you're the greater fool if you buy anywhere near that amount of glasses and contacts in the age of internet glasses makers.
Paul, this comment seems unlike you and feels like a clear Rule #1 violation. My vision problems are hereditary, and glasses to correct are specialized and expen-$ive. How on earth does that make me or anyone like me a "fool"? Did I/we unwisely choose the wrong parents?

On a related but inverse note, due to the difficulty of spending during the pandemic, many companies are extending the spend period and/or the amount that can be rolled over. Be sure to check.

And @skiersailor, if I worked for a small company, I'd probably feel the same way. But DH works for a very large company, and is union. Everything is negotiated to the nth degree. The employees know every loophole and the company knows they do. For example, the healthcare stipend for full-pension retirees hasn't increased in twenty years. Retirees do not get "free" healthcare, but they are allowed to stay on the company's healthcare plan if they make up the difference OOP. Want to guess how much the cost has risen in twenty years? IMO, it all evens out.

DH will retire in the first half of the year. You bet we will plan accordingly. It's not like the money will be spent on a trip to Vegas. It will be used for health care. DH has put off bunion surgery because he doesn't want to take that much time off work. He has very wide feet and in the first few years of this job, the company mandated footwear simply wasn't wide enough. The problem developed over time, but by the time the company's footwear restrictions eased, the damage was done. Hell yes, we're going to "take advantage" to correct the problem.

I took it to be kind of a joke, but it did sting a little. We pay so much for contacts, and that's with me shopping around, using coupon codes and using cash back sites like ebates. Of course when both spouses wear contacts, the cost is doubled. Luckily we can use the internet glasses. I suppose I could switch from daily contacts to monthlies, but for me the benefit to me is great, and I feel it is worth it.
I don't think Paul was necessarily talking about you guys when he made his comment - honestly, it wouldn't have occurred to me either that there are some people who can't use the internet sites for eyewear. I believe he's talking more about people like me, who went to an expensive eye doctor because I have a vision benefit that would cover it, but then bought glasses from them to the tune of over $400. I figured it out after the fact that I could have simply said, "no thank you, I'll just take my prescription" and bought eyewear of equal quality online for a fraction of that cost. I would bet that Paul wasn't taking a jab at people with very poor eyesight, just from what I've seen of his posts.