Author Topic: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend  (Read 94817 times)

pbkmaine

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #150 on: March 20, 2017, 06:36:16 AM »
Why do you continue to engage with a person who insults you?

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #151 on: March 20, 2017, 06:44:12 AM »
Why do you continue to engage with a person who insults you?

That is a good question, and I should apologize to the whole forum for taking up so much server space on this probably tedious tale. This is someone I have known for decades, and it has just been difficult for me to set boundaries with him. But I feel like I have turned the corner, in part thanks to some of the advice I have received here. (The "Emotional Blackmail" book that someone referenced above is very useful.) His demanding behavior has always been there, but it was manageable because we live far apart. It is just now that he is in truly dire financial conditions that things are escalating.

He is someone who has always harbored a lot of anger at the world, and it is now increasingly being turned on me. That is why I eagerly accepted his suggestion of a stoppage in communication. It is just difficult for him to stick to it.

aceyou

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #152 on: March 20, 2017, 06:56:52 AM »
Yep, this person is an anchor. 

begood

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #153 on: March 20, 2017, 07:33:31 AM »
Why do you continue to engage with a person who insults you?

That is a good question, and I should apologize to the whole forum for taking up so much server space on this probably tedious tale. This is someone I have known for decades, and it has just been difficult for me to set boundaries with him. But I feel like I have turned the corner, in part thanks to some of the advice I have received here. (The "Emotional Blackmail" book that someone referenced above is very useful.) His demanding behavior has always been there, but it was manageable because we live far apart. It is just now that he is in truly dire financial conditions that things are escalating.

He is someone who has always harbored a lot of anger at the world, and it is now increasingly being turned on me. That is why I eagerly accepted his suggestion of a stoppage in communication. It is just difficult for him to stick to it.

If you respond to ANY of his insults/explanations/diatribes, you encourage him to continue. It doesn't matter whether HE sticks to the stoppage in communication; it only matters if YOU do.

From one rules follower to another, stay strong. You are in the right and he is in the oh so wrong.

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #154 on: March 20, 2017, 07:41:03 AM »
You seem like you're a very generous person and you want to help. It's hard to flip a switch and turn that off.

However, doing everything you can for a person is only occasionally the right choice. Children learn by making mistakes and figuring out a solution for themselves. It's how they grow as people. If a parent swooped in every time and did things for them, they would never learn to do things for themselves. An adult is exactly the same. If you see someone making mistakes, swooping in and fixing things for them is only sometimes the best solution. When you want to help this person, think of the lesson you could be taking away from them. It's much harder to step back and let things happen than it is to fix is when you're able to. I'm not judging at all because it's definitely my instinct too.

Re: his suggestion of stopping communication. It wasn't a real suggestion. It was emotional blackmail. That doesn't mean it's not the best choice. I would cut off communication.

Some final unsolicited advice: stop justifying his behaviour. You don't seem to be able to describe him acting like an asshole without explaining why he's acting like an asshole in the next sentence. He called me a prig, but maybe I am one. He wants me to bank roll his hotel stay, but his family might not let him stay so he needs it. Nope nope nope.

Dicey

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #155 on: March 20, 2017, 08:11:29 AM »
Some final unsolicited advice: stop justifying his behaviour. You don't seem to be able to describe him acting like an asshole without explaining why he's acting like an asshole in the next sentence. He called me a prig, but maybe I am one. He wants me to bank roll his hotel stay, but his family might not let him stay so he needs it. Nope nope nope.

pbkmaine

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #156 on: March 20, 2017, 08:25:36 AM »
Why do you continue to engage with a person who insults you?

...That is why I eagerly accepted his suggestion of a stoppage in communication. It is just difficult for him to stick to it.

You can't control what he does. But YOU can stick to it. The next text he sends, tell him you think his suggestion to stop communicating is a good one. Then block him. Block his phone numbers, his emails, his social media accounts.

At this point, his behavior is not the problem. Yours is.

RedmondStash

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #157 on: March 20, 2017, 08:41:14 AM »
Why do you continue to engage with a person who insults you?

...That is why I eagerly accepted his suggestion of a stoppage in communication. It is just difficult for him to stick to it.

You can't control what he does. But YOU can stick to it. The next text he sends, tell him you think his suggestion to stop communicating is a good one. Then block him. Block his phone numbers, his emails, his social media accounts.

At this point, his behavior is not the problem. Yours is.

Honestly, I just would not respond to him at all. Ever. You don't owe him a reply; his behavior has gone beyond the bounds of social courtesy, so that means you don't owe him any social courtesy anymore. He burned that bridge himself.

It's really hard letting go of someone you thought of as a friend. I'm glad you're turning the corner. And the truth is that it doesn't matter whether his need for money is real or not. It's not your responsibility. He's trying to make his problems your problems, but they're not.

Not your circus; not your monkeys.

You can do this.

yuka

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #158 on: May 10, 2017, 10:01:09 AM »
My addition to everyone who says to break off contact:

If you're enjoying the circus more than you're bothered by it, and if there's no chance of ever giving in, then by all means continue.

In your shoes, I think I would automate responses to every email from your leech. Probably something that will go from an irritating answer to really alienating yourself to him once he realizes that it's an automatic response, maybe "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I am sticking to our agreement not to contact one another."

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-send-canned-replies-automatically-in-gmail-1172080

Of course, make sure that the messages skip directly over your inbox so you're not paying them any mind. I think over time this will prove a more frustrating and definitive response, as he can't delude himself with the notion that you're mulling over a response.

partgypsy

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #159 on: May 10, 2017, 11:01:37 AM »
Wow! I really identified with some of this, in that I have some family members, who act this way. It is hard because you had a relationship with them, maybe they had been there for you in the past, and now this (downward spiral sh*t show). Part of your conflict about ending support or contact with them, is that you may suspect some of this is due to undiagnosed psychological or emotional problems, and so not really their fault. But you know what? if they had any self-insight would realize by now, that it can't always be other's people's fault why their life is the way it is. This person is not at that point where they have any self insight. But I have been called exactly the same type of names when I offered emotional support but not financial support; I'm superior, pretentious, concescending etc (heck my ex recently called me "smug" when asking him to keep to the custody agreement). They know those words hurt.

In this case, like what other people said, you can't save him. At this point if he has so little insight to not understand why he basically has no friends and is verbally attacking someone who gave him 1K! in the past year simply for drawing boundaries, then any more talk from you will not help. 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 08:47:15 AM by partgypsy »

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #160 on: May 10, 2017, 05:31:46 PM »
Is there some reason why you haven't blocked his emails yet? As entertaining as this is for the rest of us, it doesn't sound like you're enjoying hearing from this guy.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #161 on: May 10, 2017, 06:19:09 PM »
Is there some reason why you haven't blocked his emails yet? As entertaining as this is for the rest of us, it doesn't sound like you're enjoying hearing from this guy.

Haven't heard from him in about six weeks. I assumed this thread would fade to obscurity...

TomTX

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #162 on: May 11, 2017, 04:44:39 PM »
Is there some reason why you haven't blocked his emails yet? As entertaining as this is for the rest of us, it doesn't sound like you're enjoying hearing from this guy.

Haven't heard from him in about six weeks. I assumed this thread would fade to obscurity...

Everything lives forever on the Internet :D

mozar

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #163 on: May 11, 2017, 07:36:39 PM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #164 on: May 11, 2017, 09:11:27 PM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

I should put an alert in my calendar for august 2032 to come here and speak from my heart about maintaining​ boundaries.

partgypsy

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #165 on: May 15, 2017, 08:48:08 AM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

I should put an alert in my calendar for august 2032 to come here and speak from my heart about maintaining​ boundaries.

lol!

Dicey

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #166 on: May 15, 2017, 11:28:02 AM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

Funny, the OP has posted a few tidbits on another thread about money lending. Every time, I think to myself, "I know who that is!"

On the subject of necroposting: I love it when an interesting old thread gets resurrected and/or updated by the OP. Bring it!

Capsu78

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #167 on: May 15, 2017, 03:38:41 PM »
This thread has always been click bait for me... I just came for the dysfunction!

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #168 on: May 24, 2017, 09:20:36 AM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

Funny, the OP has posted a few tidbits on another thread about money lending. Every time, I think to myself, "I know who that is!"

On the subject of necroposting: I love it when an interesting old thread gets resurrected and/or updated by the OP. Bring it!

Well, Dicey, I'm sad to say that I did get an email from him a few days ago alerting me that he had almost exhausted the windfall that he received several months ago, and still had no job. Not sure why he would share that info with a haughty, condescending, insulting, lecturing prig like me, but I assume it is a prelude to a request for cash. I predict a fire hose of vitriol will soon be directed at me. I can't imagine what it must be like to live like that.

MrsDinero

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #169 on: May 24, 2017, 09:23:15 AM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

Funny, the OP has posted a few tidbits on another thread about money lending. Every time, I think to myself, "I know who that is!"

On the subject of necroposting: I love it when an interesting old thread gets resurrected and/or updated by the OP. Bring it!

Well, Dicey, I'm sad to say that I did get an email from him a few days ago alerting me that he had almost exhausted the windfall that he received several months ago, and still had no job. Not sure why he would share that info with a haughty, condescending, insulting, lecturing prig like me, but I assume it is a prelude to a request for cash. I predict a fire hose of vitriol will soon be directed at me. I can't imagine what it must be like to live like that.

I imagine he was thinking "see if you had given me money when I asked for it, I would not be in this position, so it is your fault."

Do not respond or reengage a conversation with him.  At this point I would just give him the gift of silence.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #170 on: May 24, 2017, 09:35:09 AM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

Funny, the OP has posted a few tidbits on another thread about money lending. Every time, I think to myself, "I know who that is!"

On the subject of necroposting: I love it when an interesting old thread gets resurrected and/or updated by the OP. Bring it!

Well, Dicey, I'm sad to say that I did get an email from him a few days ago alerting me that he had almost exhausted the windfall that he received several months ago, and still had no job. Not sure why he would share that info with a haughty, condescending, insulting, lecturing prig like me, but I assume it is a prelude to a request for cash. I predict a fire hose of vitriol will soon be directed at me. I can't imagine what it must be like to live like that.

I imagine he was thinking "see if you had given me money when I asked for it, I would not be in this position, so it is your fault."

Do not respond or reengage a conversation with him.  At this point I would just give him the gift of silence.

Yeah, I didn't take the bait, but I expect he will try again, if only because he doesn't have many alternatives.

okits

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #171 on: May 24, 2017, 02:21:53 PM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

Funny, the OP has posted a few tidbits on another thread about money lending. Every time, I think to myself, "I know who that is!"

On the subject of necroposting: I love it when an interesting old thread gets resurrected and/or updated by the OP. Bring it!

Well, Dicey, I'm sad to say that I did get an email from him a few days ago alerting me that he had almost exhausted the windfall that he received several months ago, and still had no job. Not sure why he would share that info with a haughty, condescending, insulting, lecturing prig like me, but I assume it is a prelude to a request for cash. I predict a fire hose of vitriol will soon be directed at me. I can't imagine what it must be like to live like that.

I imagine he was thinking "see if you had given me money when I asked for it, I would not be in this position, so it is your fault."

Do not respond or reengage a conversation with him.  At this point I would just give him the gift of silence.

Yeah, I didn't take the bait, but I expect he will try again, if only because he doesn't have many alternatives.

Stick to your guns, frugalecon.  The gift of silence is a gift for you, too.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #172 on: May 24, 2017, 03:00:39 PM »
Please don't respond to him. No responses at all to any phone calls, texts, emails. No acknowledgement whatsoever to any attempts of contact from him.

He called you horrible things and was verbally abusive after you helped him with money/support multiple times. This is not a friend.

He does not see you as a friend. He does not treat you like a friend. He does not respect you, think well of you, or appreciate anything you have ever done for him. You are not allowed to have an opinion, offer advice, or otherwise comment on his choices/life - your sole reason for being in his eyes is to provide him with support and money when he demands it.

He doesn't deserve any more of your time, or to take up any more of your head space.

I know it's entertaining for us when you post this guy's messed up life and how he keeps making demands and bashing you, but this isn't healthy FOR YOU. I do hope you block this asshole permanently and forget he ever existed for your own peace of mind. You deserve less crap in your life in general, and this is one easy block away from reducing the levels.

Abundant life

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #173 on: May 24, 2017, 03:18:50 PM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

Funny, the OP has posted a few tidbits on another thread about money lending. Every time, I think to myself, "I know who that is!"

On the subject of necroposting: I love it when an interesting old thread gets resurrected and/or updated by the OP. Bring it!

Well, Dicey, I'm sad to say that I did get an email from him a few days ago alerting me that he had almost exhausted the windfall that he received several months ago, and still had no job. Not sure why he would share that info with a haughty, condescending, insulting, lecturing prig like me, but I assume it is a prelude to a request for cash. I predict a fire hose of vitriol will soon be directed at me. I can't imagine what it must be like to live like that.
Hi Frugalecon, been following your thread. In my experience, and I don't understand why, but if you are kind and overly generous to some people they treat you with disdain. Perhaps they don't value the relationship as much as you do. 

If you wish not to be tempted to respond to his emails, could you mark his emails as spam? But then you would have no new info to report! lol I suppose he could then resort to calling you, which might catch you on the back foot.

Frankies Girl has said it more eloquently than me!

TomTX

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #174 on: May 24, 2017, 07:10:41 PM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

Funny, the OP has posted a few tidbits on another thread about money lending. Every time, I think to myself, "I know who that is!"

On the subject of necroposting: I love it when an interesting old thread gets resurrected and/or updated by the OP. Bring it!

Well, Dicey, I'm sad to say that I did get an email from him a few days ago alerting me that he had almost exhausted the windfall that he received several months ago, and still had no job. Not sure why he would share that info with a haughty, condescending, insulting, lecturing prig like me, but I assume it is a prelude to a request for cash. I predict a fire hose of vitriol will soon be directed at me. I can't imagine what it must be like to live like that.

Why are you even seeing his emails? It is very easy to set up a filter so that they go directly in the trash.

But if you LIKE that sort of thing, I guess I could shoot a fire hose of vitriol at you for $1,000. ;)

mikefixac

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #175 on: May 24, 2017, 08:54:54 PM »
I don't know Frugalecon and don't really care.

But honestly, after reading this thread, I'm not sure who's the bigger asshole--Frugalecon's former friend or Frugalecon. Maybe even one more--those who beg Frugalecon not to give in to his friend. I mean, Goddamn, how hard is it to move one's pointer and click the "spam" icon?

[MOD NOTE: Racist joke deleted]

Nice knowing everyone here. I have a feeling I'll now be removed from this forum.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 07:18:55 AM by FrugalToque »

TomTX

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #176 on: May 25, 2017, 05:35:39 AM »
I don't know Frugalecon and don't really care.

But honestly, after reading this thread, I'm not sure who's the bigger asshole--Frugalecon's former friend or Frugalecon. Maybe even one more--those who beg Frugalecon not to give in to his friend. I mean, Goddamn, how hard is it to move one's pointer and click the "spam" icon?

[racist joke quote gone]


You make fair points, not sure why you would be banned. Facepunches are encouraged.

You're right - I've said my piece, hoping to help.  It either helped or not. There's no point in continuing to follow the trainwreck.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 07:19:17 AM by FrugalToque »

Dicey

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #177 on: May 25, 2017, 07:13:18 AM »
I don't know Frugalecon and don't really care.

But honestly, after reading this thread, I'm not sure who's the bigger asshole--Frugalecon's former friend or Frugalecon. Maybe even one more--those who beg Frugalecon not to give in to his friend. I mean, Goddamn, how hard is it to move one's pointer and click the "spam" icon?

[racist joke quote]

Nice knowing everyone here. I have a feeling I'll now be removed from this forum.

You make fair points, not sure why you would be banned. Facepunches are encouraged.

You're right - I've said my piece, hoping to help.  It either helped or not. There's no point in continuing to follow the trainwreck.
I think it's the crude attempt at humor that's beyond the pale. Buh-bye Mike.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 07:19:42 AM by FrugalToque »

TomTX

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #178 on: May 25, 2017, 08:05:03 PM »
Ah, apparently I ignored the joke - don't even have a vague recollection what it was. I have a bad habit of pulling out what appears to be pertinent from forum posts and dumping the rest before it hits long term memory.

BTDretire

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #179 on: May 26, 2017, 05:45:13 AM »
Just in case anyone is interested in the continuing story of my friend, he is still unemployed, alas, though he has had two temporary jobs in the interim. He quit one because he thought he had landed a six-figure position, but it turned out to be a possibly criminal enterprise. (Medicare and Medicaid fraud) He got another temporary gig that lasted a week before he was let go. It sounded like there were personality conflicts. I did end up contributing $1k so that he could make his August rent, but then two weeks later he texted me asking about another $1k so that he could start putting together money for his Seotember bills. I declined because of bills I had to pay and made some suggestions, which were not well received. He has some irons in the fire, but I am not terribly optimistic. I really can't fathom an employer taking a chance on him given how he presents. It is very sad to watch someone fall into poverty.
How much more money do you think you would give him?

I have decided that I won't give him any more money, other than small amounts for Xmas and birthday.
Oh my God, Just stop!
You're his friend because you are a money machine, if you stop dispensing money you won't be his friend. Stop, just stop. I can't believe you gave him another $1,000. He quit a job because he thought he had another! Bad decision after bad decision. I suspect he new before he quit there was something wrong with that new job. You aren't going to change him.
 STOP THE INSANITY!
 Find a single mother struggling with 3 kids, if you must get a good feeling for giving away money.
Although I don't think you feel good when you give this guy money.
STOP THE INSANITY!

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #180 on: June 05, 2017, 09:43:15 PM »
Ok, gang, this is the end of the line. For anyone who doesn't want to read the end, hit backspace.

So a few weeks ago the dude in question reached out with a light email, and I weakened and responded, and fairly quickly it escalated into a request for cash because it is an "emergency," though it sounded like the rubber really wouldn't hit the road until July 1. I am traveling, but replied I was open to talking later this week. I marshaled talking points, assembled a list of helpful links, and prepared to say that at this time I was only willing to talk about his options, but I wasn't willing to offer financial assistance.

But then a few hours ago I received an email, stating that he had sent me a letter with a deposit slip, and he had discovered his bank had branches in my city, and he would need to access my funds quickly, and it really wasn't even clear why. But I needed to deposit funds soon. I realized at that point that I really wasn't going to be able to have the conversation with him that I had envisioned, so the only response I could give him was that he had misunderstood the contact I was willing to have, and then I shared a list of potentially helpful links.

And then, I initiated ZCP. Email and phone calls blocked on all accounts and phone numbers. Hopefully this is really the end of the road for this saga. Any postal correspondence will be immediately burned. Hopefully he will figure out how to manage his life a bit better.

But in the meantime, please resume normal posting, and give thanks for the people with good mental health who are out there.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 09:45:58 PM by frugalecon »

LeRainDrop

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #181 on: June 05, 2017, 09:59:00 PM »
This is a sad storyline.  I can relate to many of the feelings you've experienced.  I'm sorry you've had to go through this, frugalecon.

Dicey

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #182 on: June 05, 2017, 10:11:27 PM »
You're a good egg, frugalecon. Letting go of this so-called friend will hopefully make room in your life for a new, true friend.

SC93

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #183 on: June 05, 2017, 10:15:53 PM »
I didn't read many replies but I see a major problem and it also applies to many others in the US. In your original statement you said, "He is continuing to seek jobs in his field". How about the world step out of their 'field' and just find a job.... ANY damn job that pays MONEY? If a job is what they seek. B!tch and complain about not finding a job in your 'field'.... ppfftttt How about changing your field to mowing grass or working at 7-11?

As for your 'friend', I usually try to hang with almost anyone but he is the type that I don't and won't ever hang with. Life is short... look how much time you've already wasted jacking with him. You can't get time back, this ain't no game where you can reset the clock...

sequoia

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #184 on: June 06, 2017, 05:22:42 AM »
Ok, gang, this is the end of the line. For anyone who doesn't want to read the end, hit backspace.

So a few weeks ago the dude in question reached out with a light email, and I weakened and responded, and fairly quickly it escalated into a request for cash because it is an "emergency," though it sounded like the rubber really wouldn't hit the road until July 1. I am traveling, but replied I was open to talking later this week. I marshaled talking points, assembled a list of helpful links, and prepared to say that at this time I was only willing to talk about his options, but I wasn't willing to offer financial assistance.

But then a few hours ago I received an email, stating that he had sent me a letter with a deposit slip, and he had discovered his bank had branches in my city, and he would need to access my funds quickly, and it really wasn't even clear why. But I needed to deposit funds soon. I realized at that point that I really wasn't going to be able to have the conversation with him that I had envisioned, so the only response I could give him was that he had misunderstood the contact I was willing to have, and then I shared a list of potentially helpful links.

And then, I initiated ZCP. Email and phone calls blocked on all accounts and phone numbers. Hopefully this is really the end of the road for this saga. Any postal correspondence will be immediately burned. Hopefully he will figure out how to manage his life a bit better.

But in the meantime, please resume normal posting, and give thanks for the people with good mental health who are out there.

Wow...he is sending you a deposit slip? Does he thinks you are an ATM? All kidding aside, I am glad this is the end of the line, and you initiate ZCP.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #185 on: June 06, 2017, 09:53:10 AM »
Good to see that you are now cutting future contact. Finally he has shown you his reason for being your "friend" in a way that makes everything crystal clear.

RedmondStash

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #186 on: June 06, 2017, 10:35:09 AM »
Ok, gang, this is the end of the line. For anyone who doesn't want to read the end, hit backspace.

So a few weeks ago the dude in question reached out with a light email, and I weakened and responded, and fairly quickly it escalated into a request for cash because it is an "emergency," though it sounded like the rubber really wouldn't hit the road until July 1. I am traveling, but replied I was open to talking later this week. I marshaled talking points, assembled a list of helpful links, and prepared to say that at this time I was only willing to talk about his options, but I wasn't willing to offer financial assistance.

But then a few hours ago I received an email, stating that he had sent me a letter with a deposit slip, and he had discovered his bank had branches in my city, and he would need to access my funds quickly, and it really wasn't even clear why. But I needed to deposit funds soon. I realized at that point that I really wasn't going to be able to have the conversation with him that I had envisioned, so the only response I could give him was that he had misunderstood the contact I was willing to have, and then I shared a list of potentially helpful links.

And then, I initiated ZCP. Email and phone calls blocked on all accounts and phone numbers. Hopefully this is really the end of the road for this saga. Any postal correspondence will be immediately burned. Hopefully he will figure out how to manage his life a bit better.

But in the meantime, please resume normal posting, and give thanks for the people with good mental health who are out there.

Well done. Hard to do, I know.

Herbert Derp

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #187 on: June 06, 2017, 01:08:08 PM »
But then a few hours ago I received an email, stating that he had sent me a letter with a deposit slip, and he had discovered his bank had branches in my city, and he would need to access my funds quickly, and it really wasn't even clear why. But I needed to deposit funds soon.

Damn, he didn't even offer to send you any Nigerian gold in return! What a shame.

Dave1442397

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #188 on: June 06, 2017, 01:32:04 PM »
Deposit a penny to his account. Write "For your thoughts" on the deposit slip.

Good for you for finally shutting him down.

semiretired31

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #189 on: June 06, 2017, 02:10:20 PM »
I'm assuming he didn't pay you back the $1000 you gave him why would you want to give him another $1000?

It doesn't look like your money is really helping him out and in fact might be just prolonging a decision he will ultimately have to make himself.

Makes me thing of scene from Rounders:

Mike McDermott:      What can you do for me? I mean five hundred isn't even enough to get me started

Joey Knish:              Five hundred won't help, what's two grand going to do? What kind of trouble you in?
.
.
.
.

Mike McDermott:      This is the one time I don't need you to tell me how I fucked up, I know I fucked up, what I need from you is money, I need whatever money you can give me

Joey Knish:               That's the thing, this time there is no money, I give you two grand what's that buy you? A day? No I give it to you I'm wasting it

Mike McDermott:       That's fucking great

Love this movie and this scene.  "It's like that saying.... In the poker game of life, women are the rake.  The motherf'n rake."  "What saying?!!" "I don't know, but there should be one."

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #190 on: July 26, 2017, 06:22:45 PM »
Thanks again to everyone who was so patient on this thread and offered sensible advice. There was a mild breach of ZCP, but I held firm in a way that protected my integrity by not being a jerk, but rather by offering a constructive solution that was of course rejected out of hand.

If people put as much effort into actually working as they did on manipulating people, they would have an easier time of it.

Cali Nonya

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #191 on: July 26, 2017, 06:54:54 PM »
Thanks again to everyone who was so patient on this thread and offered sensible advice. There was a mild breach of ZCP, but I held firm in a way that protected my integrity by not being a jerk, but rather by offering a constructive solution that was of course rejected out of hand.

If people put as much effort into actually working as they did on manipulating people, they would have an easier time of it.

Too true

BTDretire

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #192 on: July 26, 2017, 07:50:07 PM »
Thanks again to everyone who was so patient on this thread and offered sensible advice. There was a mild breach of ZCP, but I held firm in a way that protected my integrity by not being a jerk, but rather by offering a constructive solution that was of course rejected out of hand.

If people put as much effort into actually working as they did on manipulating people, they would have an easier time of it.
I think I see a Light bulb illuminating above your head!
 Sorry if I was harsh, but it became clear your money was never going to fix his problem.
Your latest post shows that even actionable information was not going to be accepted and allow
him to change his life.
  I had a random* person ask me three different times for money and actually got mad at me the third time and said he would never help me if I needed money. Then 1 day after the third request I passed him walking down the sidewalk carrying a 12 pack of beer. I guess he didn't really need my money.

* I work in an outdoor situation with a lot of people passing by that are living paycheck to not all the way to the next paycheck. Have had dozens of requests for money over the years. One request I have had several times,
"Can I run up to the store and get you some steaks, I'll give you xx% off." I never did this so I don't know if they were going to shoplift or use foodstamps and convert the steaks to cash.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #193 on: July 27, 2017, 03:46:38 PM »
Thanks again to everyone who was so patient on this thread and offered sensible advice. There was a mild breach of ZCP, but I held firm in a way that protected my integrity by not being a jerk, but rather by offering a constructive solution that was of course rejected out of hand.

If people put as much effort into actually working as they did on manipulating people, they would have an easier time of it.
I think I see a Light bulb illuminating above your head!
 Sorry if I was harsh, but it became clear your money was never going to fix his problem.
Your latest post shows that even actionable information was not going to be accepted and allow
him to change his life.
  I had a random* person ask me three different times for money and actually got mad at me the third time and said he would never help me if I needed money. Then 1 day after the third request I passed him walking down the sidewalk carrying a 12 pack of beer. I guess he didn't really need my money.

* I work in an outdoor situation with a lot of people passing by that are living paycheck to not all the way to the next paycheck. Have had dozens of requests for money over the years. One request I have had several times,
"Can I run up to the store and get you some steaks, I'll give you xx% off." I never did this so I don't know if they were going to shoplift or use foodstamps and convert the steaks to cash.

No, money won't solve root problems. Awhile ago I had done research on programs in his area specifically designed to help people in his situation, and I talked to some compassionate people who work with them. When I saw the message in my junk folder, and I read that he had contemplated suicide, and he was at the limit of what he could handle, I decided to provide contact info for people who he could talk to, people who could help him. First, though, I tracked down his friend who had apparently agreed that I was a haughty prig, just to get his take on the dude in question's mental state. Turned out that this other friend and I saw the situation exactly the same.  All of the reports about how this person thought I was in the wrong were fictions. This is a situation of someone who just refuses to accept reality, mainly because he hasn't had to as long as free money has appeared. It has worked well to manipulate...all told he got $3600 out of me. I really have been part of the problem. Loaning money to someone who has a temporary hiccup is one thing. Loaning money to someone who has a systemic problem is something else entirely.

After I sent the information to the dude about the programs that can help, I received a one line response: "Then, fall Caesar." This is the line that follows "Et tu, Brute" in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. I suppose that makes me Brutus. When I declined to give more financial assistance, I had to think about how I would react if he followed through on his implicit suggestion that he might kill himself. I don't think he will, but I suppose he might. If he had exhausted all options, I guess I might feel one way. But he refuses to consider any options other than his preferred one, which is to land a position that he probably is no longer suitable for. If I give in to that, I give in to emotional blackmail, and it is simply wrong of him to put me in that position. I hope for his sake that he has an epiphany, but he probably won't. He probably will just find someone else to drain. He may, however, decide it is better not to live in a world that doesn't conform to his demands and expectations. Ultimately, that would be his choice. Not one he needs to make, but simply one he chooses to make. A waste of human potential, but one that is outside of my control.

Dicey

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #194 on: July 28, 2017, 06:20:08 AM »
My hunch is that he has never tallied your gifts. I'd consider mentioning it to him next time you deflect his extended palm. $3600 is wow territory. I suspect he'll dispute your total.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #195 on: July 28, 2017, 07:22:38 AM »
My hunch is that he has never tallied your gifts. I'd consider mentioning it to him next time you deflect his extended palm. $3600 is wow territory. I suspect he'll dispute your total.

Well, Dicey, I submit it is probably better just to resume ZCP. No point in debating. He wouldn't see it this way, but I made an exception out of compassion.

TomTX

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #196 on: July 28, 2017, 07:32:57 AM »
My hunch is that he has never tallied your gifts. I'd consider mentioning it to him next time you deflect his extended palm. $3600 is wow territory. I suspect he'll dispute your total.

Well, Dicey, I submit it is probably better just to resume ZCP. No point in debating. He wouldn't see it this way, but I made an exception out of compassion.

Yep. ZCP. No exceptions.

Not giving him yet more money is equivalent to stabbing him to death?

Well, he certainly has the hubris portion of Caesar down pat.

EconDiva

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #197 on: July 28, 2017, 10:24:31 AM »
My hunch is that he has never tallied your gifts. I'd consider mentioning it to him next time you deflect his extended palm. $3600 is wow territory. I suspect he'll dispute your total.

Well, Dicey, I submit it is probably better just to resume ZCP. No point in debating. He wouldn't see it this way, but I made an exception out of compassion.

Yep. ZCP. No exceptions.

Not giving him yet more money is equivalent to stabbing him to death?

Well, he certainly has the hubris portion of Caesar down pat.

Right?

This is unbelievable.

I just need some psychiatrists on the board to do some internet diagnoses of what personality disorders this guy has...I'd be interested in taking a shot at my own guesses (i.e. borderline personality disorder and/or narcissistic [spelling?] personality disorder).  Boy was he manipulative! 

But he is smart enough to know who he can do these things with too.  I agree your money was never going to help him in the way he needed help...he has fundamental flaws that need addressing that you cannot solve.  But I can relate to wanting to help a person that 'seems' to need it...at some point you have to recognize if your help is actually enabling a bad situation and helping it to continue on at your loss.  Anyways, I needed to read this today myself for my own personal reasons.

Congratulations for cutting the cord and implementing ZCP!  Thank you to the poster who wrote about this, too...it was interesting and funny as well as oh so applicable to this situation.

runewell

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #198 on: July 28, 2017, 11:43:38 AM »
I don't think I would ever implement ZCP.  That doesn't mean I would always reply back to every comment.  I had a similiar situation with someone who was my bridge partner many years ago - albeit without the verbal abuse.  He always wanted to borrow money.  At one point I just said no, and we remained friends, it just had to get to the point where he understood that there was a 0% chance I was going to lend him money and if he wanted to try that he could ask someone else. 

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #199 on: July 25, 2018, 06:40:43 PM »
Ok, just a bit of necroposting for anyone who has nostalgia for this thread. The dude in question reached out to me to talk and check in. I took the call. (I know, foolish, but I am obviously a bit of a softie.) But we had an ok conversation. No explicit requests for cash, though he is obviously essentially destitute. He is making do on SS and what his couch surfing friend can kick in, but he has decided to investigate low-income senior housing, and he is trying to secure part-time employment doing astrological readings.Hey, the people who buy into that are going to pay someone; it might as well be this dude. He is also still looking for a regular job, but it is hard to be too optimistic about that. I referred him to some information about options for extreme credit card debt (he owes about $45k), and he seemed to appreciate it.

The upshot I took away from this is that some people are a lot more resilient than one might think. This dude has been unemployed or marginally employed for 4.5 years, and he has managed to make it work. (He is 66 now.) Some of that was squeezing people like me for several thousand dollars apiece, but he has strung together some short term income streams when he had no other choice.

I would be shocked if I don’t get another request for money from him at some point, but I now have a better sense of how to manage it. This episode led me to reflect a lot on generosity, and what the best way is to help people in need, and how to maintain my personal integrity while not being a doormat. I appreciate all of the support and comments from people on this board. It was interesting having some private exchanges with folks. Interestingly, many thought I was female, assuming that this sort of predatory behavior would work more on a woman. Who knows whether that is true? Maybe I am unusually susceptible to manipulation for a dude. Anyway, I hope that this thread has value for others; I know it has had value for me.