Author Topic: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend  (Read 50584 times)

TomTX

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #150 on: March 20, 2017, 06:01:51 AM »
Wow. You handled it well. I suggest just deleting his emails, messages. Don't even go there. I read it somewhere that sometimes, we just have to close that door. Not because you are angry or hurt, but because it leads nowhere.

Unfortunately, the emails continue. I received two long ones yesterday, one justifying that he can't stay with family when he visits them, and the other providing a detailed critique of me as a "prig," which is apparently a flaw that I don't see in myself. As he put it, "the money is only part of the problem." In truth, I recognize and acknowledge that I have some personal characteristics that are less than ideal. I could even see how someone who is more loosey goosey would call me a prig, since I am an orderly rule follower.

But it is still fascinating that someone who accuses me of insulting and condescending lectures has called me a lecturing, condescending, clueless, unempathic prig who acts like a school loan officer. And he will no doubt ask to borrow money from me again!

Okay, time to introduce a term to this group:

Zero Contact Protocol, or ZCP.

Normally used for manipulative, destructive or downright crazy ex-lovers - it is appropriate in this situation. You describe an unrepentant individual who will do nothing but harm you, and harm themselves. Emotional harm, financial harm - and possibly worse as they feel "betrayed" that they can't keep sucking on your tits any longer. WAHT? NO FREE MILKS!!" WAAAAHHH!!! MEAN MOMMY!!!!! I HATE YOU!!!! PLEEZ PLEEZ PLEEZ MORE MIIIILLLK!!!! MEAN MOOOOMMMYY!!! YOU ARE A PRIG MOOOMMMY!!!

"Has to" stay in a hotel when his family has offered him a bed for the visit? On your dime? Ridiculously demanding infant. Next, he will want you to come change his diapers for him. That is not a metaphor. And that's just the last of a long, long line of unreasonable behavior. He is not a friend and actively makes your life worse. He can't even follow through on his threat that you won't hear from him again - so, you have to do ONE LAST THING for him. Fulfil it for him.

CUT OFF ALL CONTACT. Set an automatic filter to send his emails to the trash. Block him on your phone. Shred any letters unopened. If you see him on the street, ignore him and keep walking. If he comes to your house, tell him to go away and keep the door locked. If he refuses, call the police.

ZERO CONTACT PROTOCOL.

Engage ZCP. NOW.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #151 on: March 20, 2017, 06:23:10 AM »
Wow. You handled it well. I suggest just deleting his emails, messages. Don't even go there. I read it somewhere that sometimes, we just have to close that door. Not because you are angry or hurt, but because it leads nowhere.

Unfortunately, the emails continue. I received two long ones yesterday, one justifying that he can't stay with family when he visits them, and the other providing a detailed critique of me as a "prig," which is apparently a flaw that I don't see in myself. As he put it, "the money is only part of the problem." In truth, I recognize and acknowledge that I have some personal characteristics that are less than ideal. I could even see how someone who is more loosey goosey would call me a prig, since I am an orderly rule follower.

But it is still fascinating that someone who accuses me of insulting and condescending lectures has called me a lecturing, condescending, clueless, unempathic prig who acts like a school loan officer. And he will no doubt ask to borrow money from me again!

Okay, time to introduce a term to this group:

Zero Contact Protocol, or ZCP.

Normally used for manipulative, destructive or downright crazy ex-lovers - it is appropriate in this situation. You describe an unrepentant individual who will do nothing but harm you, and harm themselves. Emotional harm, financial harm - and possibly worse as they feel "betrayed" that they can't keep sucking on your tits any longer. WAHT? NO FREE MILKS!!" WAAAAHHH!!! MEAN MOMMY!!!!! I HATE YOU!!!! PLEEZ PLEEZ PLEEZ MORE MIIIILLLK!!!! MEAN MOOOOMMMYY!!! YOU ARE A PRIG MOOOMMMY!!!

"Has to" stay in a hotel when his family has offered him a bed for the visit? On your dime? Ridiculously demanding infant. Next, he will want you to come change his diapers for him. That is not a metaphor. And that's just the last of a long, long line of unreasonable behavior. He is not a friend and actively makes your life worse. He can't even follow through on his threat that you won't hear from him again - so, you have to do ONE LAST THING for him. Fulfil it for him.

CUT OFF ALL CONTACT. Set an automatic filter to send his emails to the trash. Block him on your phone. Shred any letters unopened. If you see him on the street, ignore him and keep walking. If he comes to your house, tell him to go away and keep the door locked. If he refuses, call the police.

ZERO CONTACT PROTOCOL.

Engage ZCP. NOW.

I agree that ZCP seems warranted here, especially since this person proposed a break in communication.

But I should make clear that he isn't refusing a bed his family has offered. His claim is that his family will not permit him to stay with them. It is true (and probably not surprising) that he has had conflicts with family members over the years. I doubt that he has actually asked them if they could put him up for a few days, but rather he is forecasting what their response would be.

pbkmaine

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #152 on: March 20, 2017, 06:36:16 AM »
Why do you continue to engage with a person who insults you?

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #153 on: March 20, 2017, 06:44:12 AM »
Why do you continue to engage with a person who insults you?

That is a good question, and I should apologize to the whole forum for taking up so much server space on this probably tedious tale. This is someone I have known for decades, and it has just been difficult for me to set boundaries with him. But I feel like I have turned the corner, in part thanks to some of the advice I have received here. (The "Emotional Blackmail" book that someone referenced above is very useful.) His demanding behavior has always been there, but it was manageable because we live far apart. It is just now that he is in truly dire financial conditions that things are escalating.

He is someone who has always harbored a lot of anger at the world, and it is now increasingly being turned on me. That is why I eagerly accepted his suggestion of a stoppage in communication. It is just difficult for him to stick to it.

aceyou

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #154 on: March 20, 2017, 06:56:52 AM »
Yep, this person is an anchor. 

begood

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #155 on: March 20, 2017, 07:33:31 AM »
Why do you continue to engage with a person who insults you?

That is a good question, and I should apologize to the whole forum for taking up so much server space on this probably tedious tale. This is someone I have known for decades, and it has just been difficult for me to set boundaries with him. But I feel like I have turned the corner, in part thanks to some of the advice I have received here. (The "Emotional Blackmail" book that someone referenced above is very useful.) His demanding behavior has always been there, but it was manageable because we live far apart. It is just now that he is in truly dire financial conditions that things are escalating.

He is someone who has always harbored a lot of anger at the world, and it is now increasingly being turned on me. That is why I eagerly accepted his suggestion of a stoppage in communication. It is just difficult for him to stick to it.

If you respond to ANY of his insults/explanations/diatribes, you encourage him to continue. It doesn't matter whether HE sticks to the stoppage in communication; it only matters if YOU do.

From one rules follower to another, stay strong. You are in the right and he is in the oh so wrong.

independence

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #156 on: March 20, 2017, 07:41:03 AM »
You seem like you're a very generous person and you want to help. It's hard to flip a switch and turn that off.

However, doing everything you can for a person is only occasionally the right choice. Children learn by making mistakes and figuring out a solution for themselves. It's how they grow as people. If a parent swooped in every time and did things for them, they would never learn to do things for themselves. An adult is exactly the same. If you see someone making mistakes, swooping in and fixing things for them is only sometimes the best solution. When you want to help this person, think of the lesson you could be taking away from them. It's much harder to step back and let things happen than it is to fix is when you're able to. I'm not judging at all because it's definitely my instinct too.

Re: his suggestion of stopping communication. It wasn't a real suggestion. It was emotional blackmail. That doesn't mean it's not the best choice. I would cut off communication.

Some final unsolicited advice: stop justifying his behaviour. You don't seem to be able to describe him acting like an asshole without explaining why he's acting like an asshole in the next sentence. He called me a prig, but maybe I am one. He wants me to bank roll his hotel stay, but his family might not let him stay so he needs it. Nope nope nope.

Dicey

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #157 on: March 20, 2017, 08:11:29 AM »
Some final unsolicited advice: stop justifying his behaviour. You don't seem to be able to describe him acting like an asshole without explaining why he's acting like an asshole in the next sentence. He called me a prig, but maybe I am one. He wants me to bank roll his hotel stay, but his family might not let him stay so he needs it. Nope nope nope.
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pbkmaine

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #158 on: March 20, 2017, 08:25:36 AM »
Why do you continue to engage with a person who insults you?

...That is why I eagerly accepted his suggestion of a stoppage in communication. It is just difficult for him to stick to it.

You can't control what he does. But YOU can stick to it. The next text he sends, tell him you think his suggestion to stop communicating is a good one. Then block him. Block his phone numbers, his emails, his social media accounts.

At this point, his behavior is not the problem. Yours is.

RedmondStash

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #159 on: March 20, 2017, 08:41:14 AM »
Why do you continue to engage with a person who insults you?

...That is why I eagerly accepted his suggestion of a stoppage in communication. It is just difficult for him to stick to it.

You can't control what he does. But YOU can stick to it. The next text he sends, tell him you think his suggestion to stop communicating is a good one. Then block him. Block his phone numbers, his emails, his social media accounts.

At this point, his behavior is not the problem. Yours is.

Honestly, I just would not respond to him at all. Ever. You don't owe him a reply; his behavior has gone beyond the bounds of social courtesy, so that means you don't owe him any social courtesy anymore. He burned that bridge himself.

It's really hard letting go of someone you thought of as a friend. I'm glad you're turning the corner. And the truth is that it doesn't matter whether his need for money is real or not. It's not your responsibility. He's trying to make his problems your problems, but they're not.

Not your circus; not your monkeys.

You can do this.

yuka

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #160 on: May 10, 2017, 10:01:09 AM »
My addition to everyone who says to break off contact:

If you're enjoying the circus more than you're bothered by it, and if there's no chance of ever giving in, then by all means continue.

In your shoes, I think I would automate responses to every email from your leech. Probably something that will go from an irritating answer to really alienating yourself to him once he realizes that it's an automatic response, maybe "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I am sticking to our agreement not to contact one another."

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-send-canned-replies-automatically-in-gmail-1172080

Of course, make sure that the messages skip directly over your inbox so you're not paying them any mind. I think over time this will prove a more frustrating and definitive response, as he can't delude himself with the notion that you're mulling over a response.

partgypsy

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #161 on: May 10, 2017, 11:01:37 AM »
Wow! I really identified with some of this, in that I have some family members, who act this way. It is hard because you had a relationship with them, maybe they had been there for you in the past, and now this (downward spiral sh*t show). Part of your conflict about ending support or contact with them, is that you may suspect some of this is due to undiagnosed psychological or emotional problems, and so not really their fault. But you know what? if they had any self-insight would realize by now, that it can't always be other's people's fault why their life is the way it is. This person is not at that point where they have any self insight. But I have been called exactly the same type of names when I offered emotional support but not financial support; I'm superior, pretentious, concescending etc (heck my ex recently called me "smug" when asking him to keep to the custody agreement). They know those words hurt.

In this case, like what other people said, you can't save him. At this point if he has so little insight to not understand why he basically has no friends and is verbally attacking someone who gave him 1K! in the past year simply for drawing boundaries, then any more talk from you will not help. 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 08:47:15 AM by partgypsy »

Spiffsome

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #162 on: May 10, 2017, 05:31:46 PM »
Is there some reason why you haven't blocked his emails yet? As entertaining as this is for the rest of us, it doesn't sound like you're enjoying hearing from this guy.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #163 on: May 10, 2017, 06:19:09 PM »
Is there some reason why you haven't blocked his emails yet? As entertaining as this is for the rest of us, it doesn't sound like you're enjoying hearing from this guy.

Haven't heard from him in about six weeks. I assumed this thread would fade to obscurity...

TomTX

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #164 on: May 11, 2017, 04:44:39 PM »
Is there some reason why you haven't blocked his emails yet? As entertaining as this is for the rest of us, it doesn't sound like you're enjoying hearing from this guy.

Haven't heard from him in about six weeks. I assumed this thread would fade to obscurity...

Everything lives forever on the Internet :D

mozar

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #165 on: May 11, 2017, 07:36:39 PM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.
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snacky

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #166 on: May 11, 2017, 09:11:27 PM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

I should put an alert in my calendar for august 2032 to come here and speak from my heart about maintaining​ boundaries.
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partgypsy

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #167 on: May 15, 2017, 08:48:08 AM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

I should put an alert in my calendar for august 2032 to come here and speak from my heart about maintaining​ boundaries.

lol!

Dicey

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #168 on: May 15, 2017, 11:28:02 AM »
People around here like to dig up threads from years ago and make a really passionate point. I wouldn't worry about it.

Funny, the OP has posted a few tidbits on another thread about money lending. Every time, I think to myself, "I know who that is!"

On the subject of necroposting: I love it when an interesting old thread gets resurrected and/or updated by the OP. Bring it!
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Capsu78

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #169 on: May 15, 2017, 03:38:41 PM »
This thread has always been click bait for me... I just came for the dysfunction!