Author Topic: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend  (Read 47289 times)

lhamo

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #100 on: December 28, 2016, 08:39:19 PM »
You might find the book "Emotional Blackmail" helpful in developing better boundary setting with this individual.  I appreciate the fact that you decided to offer help with the rent as a charitable gesture, but there are probably many other people/organizations in your community who would make better/wiser use of the help.

Wherever you go, there you are

PoppyField

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #101 on: December 28, 2016, 10:58:58 PM »
I would have him get a roommate.  Even if it is just a one bedroom, some people are renting out living rooms and dining rooms as bedrooms.  Even if it is just a studio, there is such a housing crisis, he would probably get someone.  This would be good because rents, even shares, are very, very high in SF.  If he isn't already doing it, have him start going to the food bank and soup kitchens asap.  I would have him check out Panama, Edcaudor and other CA/SA locations.  He probably would be able to make it on SS alone there.  Have him check out the website, www.internationalliving.com which has tons of low cost retirement options.  They even have a discussion board where you can ask people questions.

PoppyField

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #102 on: December 28, 2016, 11:29:35 PM »
I also heard that there is a program in most of the National Parks where seniors can work there and live there in the campgrounds for free.  Maybe if he could get some kind of reliable, cheap used car like an old Honda or Toyota, and some cheap, used camping gear from Craig's List, he could camp out and work in the parks.  He would make some money, get to travel to beautiful places, and he would have his SS.  It probably would be enough for him to get by and it might be fun if he is a nature lover which I would imagine he is as most people in the Bay Area are.

RedmondStash

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #103 on: December 29, 2016, 09:37:44 AM »
OP, I'm sorry to say this, but there is nothing you can do for your friend. The friendship sounds very one-sided, like he takes everything you give, but gives little in return except guilt and manipulation. I am sure there is more to him than this, but that's the dynamic you have described. Friends don't treat friends like ATM machines.

It sounds to me like you need a way to disentangle yourself from an unhealthy situation. Whoever you think your friend is, he is not. He is someone else. Again, this doesn't mean he doesn't have some genuinely fine qualities, but this really isn't about him. It's about you and how you can live the most emotionally healthy life you can. This guy is not helping you with that. He is dragging you down -- not far, because you have your own resources, but downward is the direction he is pulling you, because he is trying to make you responsible for his life. You're not. He is.

It is hard letting go of people you care about. It brings a lot of pain and guilt, and you may not be ready yet to walk through that fire to get to the other side. And he will punish you if you try to pull away; you've already described that dynamic too.

My best advice is to figure out what you need to do to gird your loins enough to cut this guy loose, both financially and in any other necessary ways, and then start taking those steps. This situation will not get better for you until you start setting and defending real boundaries. And don't kid yourself: it is already taking a toll on you. It is already costing you more than money.

When someone is determined to keep throwing himself at the ground, over and over, there are only so many times you can intervene and catch him. Eventually, you have to let him fall, or you will fall too.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #104 on: December 29, 2016, 09:48:46 AM »
Thanks to all for reminding me of the need for boundaries. In my defense, I was ok with helping tide him over until he has time to reinstate temp work after the holidays. To be honest, I was really surprised that he had been able to obtain full-time employment again, even though it didn't last long. He has persevered in his job search, and he sees himself as someone who would bring value to the right employer. Hopefully he will find the latter.

I probably shouldn't have posted the whole saga, but perhaps there is some value in treating this as a case study.

begood

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #105 on: December 29, 2016, 11:58:12 AM »
frugalecon, I do think there's value in this thread, because it gives you a broader perspective on the situation. I can see how if it were just you and him in a bubble, it would be easy for him to provide all the reasons why you should continue to help him financially (and emotionally), whereas we're looking in from the outside going, "Please please please don't give this guy any more money."

It sounds to me (from the outside) like he has some mental health issues, including narcissism, where his belief in his abilities is inflated beyond his real world experiences, and where he seems quite willing to blame others for his problems. I only know you from this thread, but it's perfectly clear that if you are suffering in the empathy department it is from having too much, not too little.


Unique User

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #106 on: December 29, 2016, 01:17:28 PM »
I avoided this thread the last go-round, but I'll bite this time.  I agree on the great advice given.  Sometimes the best thing you can do is just cut them off.  I have a parent that I was helping out several years ago because I felt beholden even after she spent her inheritance, then cleaned out mine also.  It wasn't until someone asked me why I was paying her mortgage and basically living pretty close to poverty when she had someone clean for her and would go get her nails done that I woke up.  I cut off the money, it got ugly, really ugly.  We didn't speak for over five years.  In the meantime I bettered my financial situation and had a child.  We spoke for the first time after my daughter was a week old and she was in her late fifties, I laid the ground rules.  She complained to other family members and they told her that if she wanted a relationship she had to do what I insisted.  I have helped her out (moved her across country) and have given her money occasionally ($5k to get a car, other amounts rarely).   Because, miraculously, once no one was giving her anything, even at that age, she finally figured her shit out.  She ended up taking early SS, but lives in a LCOL area and works part time as an elderly care giver even now in her early 70s.  She says she doesn't view it as a job, she views it as something entertaining to keep herself busy because she likes the people and as a bonus, she gets paid.  She is also very healthy and has a flexible schedule.  Our relationship is much better, if she asked for money I'd probably give it to her, but the point is that she wouldn't ask unless it was a true emergency in today's world.  It was probably easier for me to cut her off because I was so angry at having been so used over the years, but still being used is being used.  You seem like too nice of a person to continually be taken advantage of.  Good luck. 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 01:19:09 PM by Unique User »

LeRainDrop

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #107 on: December 29, 2016, 02:13:46 PM »
Thanks to all for reminding me of the need for boundaries. In my defense, I was ok with helping tide him over until he has time to reinstate temp work after the holidays. To be honest, I was really surprised that he had been able to obtain full-time employment again, even though it didn't last long. He has persevered in his job search, and he sees himself as someone who would bring value to the right employer. Hopefully he will find the latter.

Unfortunately, his employment record is even worse now than before, as he now has in his recent track record that he was let go from full-time employment after just six weeks.  That's a huge red flag for potential employers if they learn this information, whether on a resume or in an interview.

PoppyField

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #108 on: December 29, 2016, 09:04:22 PM »
It seems like there A LOT of people in San Francisco who have the same exact mindset of your friend.  I know several people in their 50's and 60's who have zero money saved for retirement and their retirement plan is to simply trust that things will work out.  One person is in her mid 50's, works hard and is a good person but only makes enough to cover her bills and due to circumstances beyond her control isn't eligible for social security.  I really worry about her.  But she says it isn't a problem, she just trusts everything will work out and she likes what she does and is okay working for the rest of her life.

Another person is in her early 50's and makes good money but lives an extremely luxurious lifestyle with fancy cars, restaurants, drinking, lavish trips and has no interest in saving.  She also has her own business and I am pretty sure she has not filed a tax return in at least 20 years, so she won't be getting social security.  But this isn't a problem, because she just trusts things will work out for her.  I worry about her as well.  She actually believes is is really dumb to pay taxes and save money and every time the stock market crashes, she uses this is justify her position. 

Both of these people can cite dozens of examples where they were in tough situations and divine intervention came through and the Universe provided for them.  They both seem to really have no doubt that things will be okay for them.  I do think it is great to have that kind of faith, but wouldn't it be better to make a plan, save some money AND have faith?

Then there is another one who has her own business and she is in her 60's and her business is not doing well.  She has tons of debt and nothing saved.  Every time I mention her filing for social security, she gets nervous, turns white and changes the subject which makes me think that maybe she hasn't been paying taxes either and might not be eligible.

I am no financial wizard myself and well was on my way to becoming very much like frugalecon's friend.  I had massive credit card debt, huge expenses, a negative net worth and an out of control credit card addiction.  So I am in no position to judge anyone, which I am not, I am just worried about them.  If it had not been for Dave Ramsey, JL Collins and this website, I would be COMPLETELY doomed.   I am now 50 and it wasn't until age 48 that I was able to turn all of these things around.  I am now debt free, free of my credit card addiction, have low expenses and am saving a significant amount of money every month consistently.  Even though I got off to a late start, I feel grateful that I will be able to retire eventually, probably by age 60.  With the path I was on, I would have been working my ass off until I was 80.

And Frugalecon, this was an EXTREMELY helpful thread and I really appreciate you starting it.


Exflyboy

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #109 on: January 06, 2017, 06:42:47 PM »
Wow what a thread!

Sounds like my 46 year old BIL who gets fired repeatedly and lives with his Mom!

Last time he got fired was for making racist jokes in the company cafeteria which has a zero tolerance for racism.. Guy is a total moron as well as being a racist!

Total $$ I have sent his way = $zero.

kite

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #110 on: January 08, 2017, 10:40:03 AM »

Just to be clear, the $1000 was a gift, not a loan. He was taking IRA distributions to live on, and he needed decided to keep his income below a threshold to avoid losing appear poorer on paper and thus qualify for an Obamacare subsidy. That was rational, so I helped. He broached it as a loan, but I told him not to pay me back and consider it a gift. I knew his resources were dwindling.

I believe that there is a God**, and I'm not Him.  Neither are you.  Thus, you and I are fully excused from saving people, whether they are legitimately needy or con artists.  It's not actually clear which camp your friend is in, but I'm leaning towards con-artist.  Either way, his situation amounts to a math problem and as with all math, there are honest to goodness answers, none of which anyone here will be able to provide.  Why?  Because we don't know the balance of that IRA.   Keeping his income low to qualify for subsidy could very well be his version of driving all over town to find cheaper gas -- a common pastime of old guys.  It fills time, but it's not particularly wise.  Since his thinking is already clouded by an attraction to psychics, it's a pretty safe bet that he is likewise bad at math and may not be making the best cost/benefit analysis with respect to his IRA distributions and timing of Social Security.  Crucial pieces of information are withheld from us and probably from you, too. 

This is not to say you shouldn't keep being his friend and being generous with him when you are able to and so inspired.  I believe it is our Christian duty to do right by our fellow man.  But doing right by him is not the same thing as propping up his psychic habit or abetting his scheme to derive more in government benefits than he would ordinarily be entitled.   One way we try to ensure against throwing money into lost causes is to give non-financial help at the same time, whether to individuals or to charitable causes.  Provide a meal, purchase groceries, shovel a walk, help clean & declutter, etc. but don't give a crack addict money with which to buy more crack.  Psychics are his crack habit.


**This holds for Athiests, too.  If there is no God, then you certainly aren't the savior. 

Dicey

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #111 on: January 08, 2017, 09:46:30 PM »
I believe that there is a God**, and I'm not Him.  Neither are you.  Thus, you and I are fully excused from saving people, whether they are legitimately needy or con artists...

**This holds for Athiests, too.  If there is no God, then you certainly aren't the savior.
OMG! So funny I can hardly breathe. I have a bad cold and this sparked an epic coughing fit. Thanks, I think.
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frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #112 on: February 09, 2017, 07:21:42 AM »
OP here. I probably shouldn't add any more to this thread, but I will anyway. My friend came into an unexpected windfall, enough to tide him over for 5-6 months, and he used part of it to pay me back for the help I gave him in December. I was a little surprised, but I guess that is what keeps life interesting. Hopefully now he can find some kind of job where he can contribute productively. He has shown an amazing ability to stay on the high wire. I couldn't handle that kind of life.


Dicey

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #113 on: February 09, 2017, 10:12:04 AM »
"Unexpected windfall" sounds so interesting...

I'm glad you got your recent cash infusion returned. Fingers crossed that your friend finds something that sticks.

Edited for clarity.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 08:14:52 AM by Diane C »
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hucktard

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #114 on: February 09, 2017, 12:30:13 PM »
Don't give the person any more money. Period.

I think the saying "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" applies here. When you gave him money for the 2nd and 3rd and 4th time, that's when this became your issue.

Just stop.

And yes I have been in a similar situation, with my own mom...who also lives in the Bay area. I few years back I told her that I simply wasn't going to give her any more money, and I haven't. But that's a whole other story.


mary w

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #115 on: February 09, 2017, 04:22:11 PM »
Glad that things are at at least temporarily working out for your friend.  And that he chose to pay you back the most recent infusion of cash you gave him.


LibrarianFuzz

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #116 on: February 09, 2017, 04:26:21 PM »
Have him come over to Sacramento. Lower cost of living, plus plenty of state jobs if he's willing to work outside of his field and - most likely - below his previous pay level. Very little age discrimination in the state - I know many people who were hired in the mid-to-late 50's, or even 60's - and I know of a 70 year old that just got hired - and having a "difficult personality" still seems to be the norm here.

If he misses SF, he can still take Amtrak or the Megabus ($1!) there for weekend visits.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #117 on: March 16, 2017, 02:10:57 PM »
Probably shouldn't add to this any more, but the friend is back, this time wanting $500 to visit his declining-in-health mother in another city. He needs the money because he doesn't want to stay with family. Sigh.

But I firmly and neutrally stated that I am not in a position to help him. I could have stated (truthfully) that I have had unexpected household expenses, but I didn't feel like I needed to justify. I guess I will see what the blowback is.

Cassie

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #118 on: March 16, 2017, 05:40:16 PM »
Glad that you did not give in.

Exflyboy

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #119 on: March 16, 2017, 06:12:51 PM »
Never ceases to amaze me how such people can develop a sense of entitlement to your money, or get forgetful when the payment deadline is reached.

I know a few family members that do that.. I still await with considerable skepticism whether the deadline for our current small loan will be bet.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #120 on: March 16, 2017, 06:23:37 PM »
Glad that you did not give in.

So am I. In response to my very polite and supportive response, but one that said I hoped something could work out with him staying with a family member, he sent a rude reply telling me that I am condescending and insulting. I guess if no cash is forthcoming, he will repay with anger and vitriol.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #121 on: March 16, 2017, 07:33:02 PM »
Glad that you did not give in.

So am I. In response to my very polite and supportive response, but one that said I hoped something could work out with him staying with a family member, he sent a rude reply telling me that I am condescending and insulting. I guess if no cash is forthcoming, he will repay with anger and vitriol.

And the final coup de grace, after I sent an email saying I didn't intend insult or condescension, but asking him not to ask for money again, I received this reply:

Dont worry you wont hear from me again.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #122 on: March 16, 2017, 08:06:47 PM »
And not two minutes later I received another message stating that another friend of his, who I met once more than twenty years ago, says that I am clueless about how high handed I am.

Exflyboy

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #123 on: March 16, 2017, 08:10:18 PM »
Well right there is all the evidence you need to keep your wallet firmly closed!

RedmondStash

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #124 on: March 16, 2017, 08:29:30 PM »
You're doing the right thing.

It sucks when you end up getting hit with the stick instead of getting the carrot. That's just how manipulators roll, unfortunately. Good for you for standing firm.

Dicey

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #125 on: March 16, 2017, 10:42:42 PM »
Dont worry you wont hear from me again.
Promises, promises.

I am so proud of you, frugalecon! You stood firm! Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #126 on: March 16, 2017, 10:55:36 PM »
frugalecon, I'm sorry you are being treated so shabbily but you did the right thing.  This person is not your friend.  Hopefully it's a long while before he comes back asking for more free money (because he will definitely come back, hoping you'll turn on the taps again.  Be strong, and ready to say no as many times as necessary.)
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frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #127 on: March 17, 2017, 04:16:58 AM »
Thanks to everyone for all of the advice and patience. I was anxious to check my email and messages this a.m., not sure what I would find after the conflict yesterday. But all was quiet. It was useful for me to post the whole arc of the saga; putting it all out there shows the importance of maintaining clear boundaries. Not sure if I will have further contact with this person, though it is pretty unlikely that he will apologize for his behavior.

Warlord1986

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #128 on: March 17, 2017, 06:42:39 AM »
I'm proud of you too, man. You don't need this blood sucker in your life. Next time he emails you, delete it without opening it. You're a cool enough person that you can find other friends who won't use you for your money.

Erinbynight

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #129 on: March 17, 2017, 06:48:38 AM »
Frugalecon, Thanks for posting this thread. After reading the whole saga, this thread really isn't about suggestions for a friend that has never listened before. It was really about your struggle with a toxic friend and how to step away. I'm happy for you it finally happened. It was painful to read about the relapses you had, but it sounds like your "there".

A similar situation happened to my mom a few years ago when my grandmother died. After her second divorce, my mom and us three kids lived with my grandmother. My mom always said it was temporary, and we would go house hunting on the weekends and she worked a few different jobs. This was when I was ten. Fast forward ten years, we were still living with my grandmother. My mom racked up lots of debt with credit cards and student loans. My uncle would have not so quiet discussions with my mom about how she was bleeding my grandmother dry of her fixed income, etc. I moved out at 21 and despite many mistakes of my own, have been married for ten years, employed at a good job and own a home and hopefully on my way to FIRE by 40.
A couple years ago my grandmother passed away at 90, the house was to be divided between her four kids. My mom lived in the house over a year, and only moved out when executor uncle finally sold it. My mom got fired from her minimum wage job she had for 10 years despite her degree and MBA, and instead of getting another job, rented a 2k sqft apt for herself, dog, and dependent son (21 yr old brother of mine who is like my mom). I think she lived on the inheritance, and when that ran out she got married. Now they live happily ever after in a 3k sqft home with a 400k mortgage, adult son whom she enables to stay at home, not work, and not finish any classes at the community college despite 4 years there. Luckily her new hubby loves to take care of her and apparently has a great job. And 5 kids that won't speak to him now that he married my mom.

I describe this crazy story because it wasn't until I read this thread that I realized my mom probably has the same mental blocks and entitled mentality as your friend. The homes we looked at when I was little? Ginormous model homes costing over 1 million. The lifestyle she led? Way above her means. It truly is a disease in a way, magical thinking. She was always receiving cash gifts from friends, and my little brother (the one that lives with her) recently told me she had "cleaned out" his account...again! And he was very annoyed by it. Ugh. I can't even. You would think those behaviors would have stopped when she got married because she was too young for SS and jobless with chronic health problems...I mean because she fell in love. $$$ is just a band aid on a scab that keeps bleeding with these people. BUT I got a $20 dress and a cheap ass plane ticket to be at their church wedding they are having after 2 years of legal marriage next weekend!!! Oh the joy.

aperture

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #130 on: March 17, 2017, 07:06:50 AM »
Frugalecon, Thanks for posting this thread. After reading the whole saga, this thread really isn't about suggestions for a friend that has never listened before. It was really about your struggle with a toxic friend and how to step away. I'm happy for you it finally happened. It was painful to read about the relapses you had, but it sounds like your "there".

+1 I wish we could bottle the wisdom that comes from experiences like this.  I would pour it down my children's throats.  Toxic people come in all shapes, sizes and colors and seldom do they have a label on the outside that says "I will use you".  I think you got off cheap Frugalecon. My first wife cost years of my youth and when I left I carried an extra $70K in debt.  When I met her, she was a nice person that had some hard luck and I thought I could help (fish hook in mouth). 
Best wishes, aperture.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #131 on: March 17, 2017, 07:13:22 AM »
I am really proud of you for standing up to him.

I would stop thinking of this leech as a friend. He never was - he saw you as a kind and generous person he could take advantage of, and now that you've stood up to him, he'll drop you like a rock (but not before trying to make you feel bad for not letting him continue to bleed you of money).
I frequently have no idea what I'm talking about. Like now.

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TomTX

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #132 on: March 17, 2017, 07:19:34 AM »
And not two minutes later I received another message stating that another friend of his, who I met once more than twenty years ago, says that I am clueless about how high handed I am.

There you go. He's found someone else to leech off of.

patchyfacialhair

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #133 on: March 17, 2017, 08:02:56 AM »
Following because I'm nosy and I'd be curious to see if Mr. Leech ever reaches out again.

jodelino

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #134 on: March 17, 2017, 09:58:36 AM »
Frugalecon--I admire your compassion for your friend, your generosity, and your decision to draw the line. I can see how this whole situation is eating at you and I really feel for you.

I read this thread with particular interest because I know someone in a similarly desperate situation due to bad decision making, bad luck, character flaws, unpleasant personality, and (I think) untreated mental illness. She recently went on Social Security after becoming disabled and has been shocked to discover that a small, old unpaid student loan has caught up with her and 15% of her meager SS check is being garnished, reducing her monthly benefit to about $875. She is waiting for the other shoe to drop: the IRS catching up with her and taking another 15%.

So, FWIW, if your friend does not take care of his IRS debt, he may find that when he does start drawing on SS, he's not going to get what he was counting on.

On the other hand, the person I know is learning how to access food stamps, free lunches at a local senior center, utility bill support, and has just gotten a part time minimum wage job that provides training to disabled seniors (and it sounds like an interesting job that will utilize her considerable intelligence and skills, if she can manage not to alienate everyone she works with).

By the way, she hasn't asked me for money, but she has asked for work. I do not want to hire her for anything. I have occasionally given her small gifts of money ($50 or so) and I recently bought her a membership to the local community fitness center, and I occasionally take her out for a meal or have her over. That's all I'm willing to do. She does have a long-suffering adult child a thousand miles away who is getting tapped, but also has long experience in setting limits. (She has my admiration & my pity!)

Exflyboy

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #135 on: March 17, 2017, 10:10:50 AM »
Maybe I'm old a cynical but I have no problem in dropping people like a rock thats start to look like a leech.. Its been fun training my Wife in the ninja skills of dealing with her abusive family too..:)

rantk81

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #136 on: March 17, 2017, 10:32:16 AM »
Throughout most of calendar year 2016, someone I know made it a "life goal" to visit all 50 of the United States before hitting the age of XX... and posted on facebook about it constantly throughout the whole year, with selfie-pictures as all the various destinations he was flying to every other week.

While I was on my Christmas holiday visiting family, I got message from him asking me to loan him some money, because he apparently lost his job and wasn't going to be able to pay the rent for January.

I told him I would offer him free financial advice any time, but that I have a personal rule that I never do personal loans.
He took it alright, except for making a joke about not needing financial advice because he had no money, and hence, had no finances to manage...  <sigh...>

mm1970

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #137 on: March 17, 2017, 10:53:59 AM »
You're doing the right thing.

It sucks when you end up getting hit with the stick instead of getting the carrot. That's just how manipulators roll, unfortunately. Good for you for standing firm.

+1

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #138 on: March 17, 2017, 03:13:53 PM »
I wish that I could report that all stayed quiet today...but I did receive a lengthy email, reciting quite a bill of particulars about my unreasonableness. Some of the adjectives that have peppered his emails over the last couple of days: haughty, condescending, insulting, unempathic, clueless, lecturing, high handed, acting like a school loan officer...

In a way, I pity this person, who responds to an unremarkable email with multiple rants. There is a degree of emotional instability there. But at the same time, WTF? I don't really need this drama.

He said at the end of the message that perhaps we needed a break in our relationship. I responded that I would follow this suggestion, but I added "until there is mutual interest in resuming." I just ignored the diatribe, which I think was the right call. Engaging on his ridiculous arguments (including rehashing my decision not to give him $1000 for a vacation last May! Which was followed by a gift of $1000 in July so that he could pay his August 1 rent! Unf**king believable that he would revisit that) is clearly pointless.

What is actually a little fascinating is that, when you look at all of my terrible qualities that he enumerated, there seems to be no reason why he would want me in his life! Why exactly would you want such an asshole as me around?

Oh well...clearly when someone says "you won't hear from me again," you shouldn't take it at face value.

TomTX

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #139 on: March 17, 2017, 03:24:50 PM »
Oh well...clearly when someone says "you won't hear from me again," you shouldn't take it at face value.

It's just more emotional manipulation to try and squeeze some more cash out of you. He doesn't actually give a shit about you - just how much he can get from you.

Strick

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #140 on: March 17, 2017, 03:36:51 PM »
Um, obviously this is making your life worse and not making his any better. So depart.

Some people work for 40 years and save a good bit and continue their lifestyle to the grave.

Very few are front-end mustachians...early on they learn to cut to live off a small percentage of what they make, retire very early, and continue living off that small percentage for decades...

Most are back-end "mustachians"...in their 60s/70s they learn to live off a small percentage of what they used to make (their social security benefit).  Its not horrible because of the huge lifestyle cut...its just that they worked 40 years to get to that....

Ayanka

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #141 on: March 17, 2017, 04:31:38 PM »
Stop being nice to this person. At the least just ignore him. He has thrown you under the bus and that doesn't mean you have to do the same, but just ignore him. And a very big hug, you might need it.

Exflyboy

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #142 on: March 17, 2017, 05:01:14 PM »
Were these loans or gifts?

I think I'd become pretty unstable and emotional in return if I given him my money..

But as you now realise, this was not a friendship, you were simply a soft touch for a hard luck story.

Warlord1986

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #143 on: March 17, 2017, 08:31:39 PM »
Is there some way you can block this jerk? Mark his e-mail as spam and move on with your life. You deserve better than this.

FireLane

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #144 on: March 18, 2017, 06:51:08 AM »
It seems to me like this person was never your friend. He was only nice to you as long as you were willing to be someone he could mooch off. As soon as you turned off the money tap, the mask came off.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #145 on: March 18, 2017, 09:48:20 AM »
It seems to me like this person was never your friend. He was only nice to you as long as you were willing to be someone he could mooch off. As soon as you turned off the money tap, the mask came off.

Well, he claims he is my friend, but...

These are the literal words that he characterizes as an insulting, condescending lecture:

"I am sorry to hear that your mother is doing worse. I know that you have had concerns for some time.

Regarding your request, I am not in a position to help this time. I hope that you are able to work something out where one of your siblings can accommodate you. I know that isn't ideal, but perhaps it is worth a shot."

RedmondStash

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #146 on: March 18, 2017, 11:09:59 AM »
He is not your friend. You have to look at his actions, not at his words. His actions are not the actions of a friend.

I think the most difficult thing in a situation like this is to shift your own perception of someone you thought of as a friend, especially if they have some positive qualities. It can be disorienting to realize that someone played you because it can make you feel like a chump. But we all get played sometimes; master manipulators are very skilled at what they do.

My advice is to just stop responding to him, because as long as he can keep getting you to reply, he believes he can still squeeze money out of you. As a Buddhist friend of mine told me, "Silence is thunder." You can still wish him well, inside your own head, from a distance.

You have to let him go.

Bee21

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #147 on: March 20, 2017, 03:37:10 AM »
Wow. You handled it well. I suggest just deleting his emails, messages. Don't even go there. I read it somewhere that sometimes, we just have to close that door. Not because you are angry or hurt, but because it leads nowhere.

frugalecon

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #148 on: March 20, 2017, 05:33:34 AM »
Wow. You handled it well. I suggest just deleting his emails, messages. Don't even go there. I read it somewhere that sometimes, we just have to close that door. Not because you are angry or hurt, but because it leads nowhere.

Unfortunately, the emails continue. I received two long ones yesterday, one justifying that he can't stay with family when he visits them, and the other providing a detailed critique of me as a "prig," which is apparently a flaw that I don't see in myself. As he put it, "the money is only part of the problem." In truth, I recognize and acknowledge that I have some personal characteristics that are less than ideal. I could even see how someone who is more loosey goosey would call me a prig, since I am an orderly rule follower.

But it is still fascinating that someone who accuses me of insulting and condescending lectures has called me a lecturing, condescending, clueless, unempathic prig who acts like a school loan officer. And he will no doubt ask to borrow money from me again!

Linda_Norway

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Re: Advice for Unemployed 64-year old friend
« Reply #149 on: March 20, 2017, 05:39:26 AM »

Unfortunately, the emails continue. I received two long ones yesterday, one justifying that he can't stay with family when he visits them, and the other providing a detailed critique of me as a "prig," which is apparently a flaw that I don't see in myself. As he put it, "the money is only part of the problem." In truth, I recognize and acknowledge that I have some personal characteristics that are less than ideal. I could even see how someone who is more loosey goosey would call me a prig, since I am an orderly rule follower.

But it is still fascinating that someone who accuses me of insulting and condescending lectures has called me a lecturing, condescending, clueless, unempathic prig who acts like a school loan officer. And he will no doubt ask to borrow money from me again!

This is probably part of his manipulating strategy. Make you feel worse and guilty so that next time you'll help him again. Don't fall for it.

Don't feel bad for being a rule follower. This makes you a decent person.