Author Topic: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally  (Read 18477 times)

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2017, 02:30:52 PM »
Still looking for the paperwork on the Accidental Death policy.  It appears it was about $6 / month for NEA (National Education Association) and was for a $390,000 policy.

I find it hard to believe that premium would pay that much for a death from a fall, but maybe so.  Maybe it was more limited than just a run of the mill accident.  Anyone with experience here have any perspective?

The policy is through Prudential.  They are closed today, but it appears the only way the Accidental Death / Dismemberment policy only pays if the death occurs in a vehicle or conveyance. 

I'll have to call tomorrow to confirm, but the way I'm reading it, an accident where one falls does not appear to be covered.
  Make the claim and let them deny it.  Do not even ask the question about whether it is covered.


On the other issues, if she is an authorized user, and not a joint account holder, then she would not be responsible for the debt.  The creditors could try to collect from the estate, if there is anything there to collect.  You need to talk to a probate lawyer.

On the $800k in the business, you really need to talk to a business lawyer.  Small businesses will always have rules about selling.  It will be in writing, a shareholder agreement, an operating agreement, something like that. The attorney will know what to get and can tell you how to go about selling properly.

With potentially $800k in assets and $100k in life insurance money coming, you need to stay far away from bankruptcy court.  She's practically a millionaire.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 02:34:17 PM by Malum Prohibitum »

dogboyslim

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2017, 02:48:37 PM »
"slip and fall" seems to be the literal definition of "accidental death".

spoken as a non-lawyer, non-insurance adjuster.

Usually there is a time limit between the accident and the death, and the accident must be the proximate cause of the death.  If this resulted in an injury and then he developed pneumonia,  they will deny the claim.  Also, most AD cases require an autopsy if there is any question about the cause of death.

ETA: I just saw it was conveyance only.  That's odd, I've not seen many of those policies.  Make sure you read the policy, not the summaries of the policy.  The policy is the actual agreement and there will be a segment with a name like "covered loss" or something like that.

Also, sorry for your loss.

SnackDog

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2017, 03:02:38 PM »
Could she take in boarders or do Airbnb type room rental to make $1000/month?

BFGirl

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2017, 03:22:32 PM »
Still looking for the paperwork on the Accidental Death policy.  It appears it was about $6 / month for NEA (National Education Association) and was for a $390,000 policy.

I find it hard to believe that premium would pay that much for a death from a fall, but maybe so.  Maybe it was more limited than just a run of the mill accident.  Anyone with experience here have any perspective?

The policy is through Prudential.  They are closed today, but it appears the only way the Accidental Death / Dismemberment policy only pays if the death occurs in a vehicle or conveyance. 

I'll have to call tomorrow to confirm, but the way I'm reading it, an accident where one falls does not appear to be covered.
  Make the claim and let them deny it.  Do not even ask the question about whether it is covered.


On the other issues, if she is an authorized user, and not a joint account holder, then she would not be responsible for the debt.  The creditors could try to collect from the estate, if there is anything there to collect.  You need to talk to a probate lawyer.

On the $800k in the business, you really need to talk to a business lawyer.  Small businesses will always have rules about selling.  It will be in writing, a shareholder agreement, an operating agreement, something like that. The attorney will know what to get and can tell you how to go about selling properly.

With potentially $800k in assets and $100k in life insurance money coming, you need to stay far away from bankruptcy court.  She's practically a millionaire.

+1 to all the above and to consulting an attorney.  There are complicated issues involved that an attorney can advise you on.

Gone Fishing

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2017, 06:35:37 PM »
Dig into the credit cards, many include a modest accidental death benefit.  They are probably covered up in fine print, but may yield something.

FrugalSaver

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2017, 10:54:46 AM »
Cause of death confirmed by autopsy - punctured spleen caused by the fall / broken ribs.

Why wouldn't the ER have looked for this and not sent him home???  Never even mentioned as a risk or anything remotely like a life or death situation.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 11:59:05 AM by FrugalSaver »

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2017, 10:56:14 AM »
Aide of death confirmed by autopsy - punctured spleen caused by the fall / broken ribs.

Why wouldn't the ER have looked for this and not sent him home???  Never even mentioned as a risk or anything remotely like a life or death situation.
  You really need to talk to an attorney who practices medical malpractice (not a standard personal injury attorney).

SKL-HOU

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2017, 12:40:19 PM »
Did they bot do an xray? Wouldnt an xray show this or at least give them a clue? I dropped a heavy object on my toe and the first thing they did was xrays! I don't typically agree with suing but you have to look into it for sure in this case!

partgypsy

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2017, 01:34:25 PM »
Aide of death confirmed by autopsy - punctured spleen caused by the fall / broken ribs.

Why wouldn't the ER have looked for this and not sent him home???  Never even mentioned as a risk or anything remotely like a life or death situation.
  You really need to talk to an attorney who practices medical malpractice (not a standard personal injury attorney).

Ditto. You really need to talk to someone who deals with these kind of questions for a living. Sorry for your loss, was this your Dad?

FrugalSaver

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2017, 02:00:58 PM »
Aide of death confirmed by autopsy - punctured spleen caused by the fall / broken ribs.

Why wouldn't the ER have looked for this and not sent him home???  Never even mentioned as a risk or anything remotely like a life or death situation.
  You really need to talk to an attorney who practices medical malpractice (not a standard personal injury attorney).

Ditto. You really need to talk to someone who deals with these kind of questions for a living. Sorry for your loss, was this your Dad?

Yes those calls have been placed. We don't want to sue anyone unnecessarily but right now this appears to be a totally preventable death.

It's not my dad.

Rosy

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2017, 02:15:13 PM »
Follow up on the 800K first - the company needs to be advised of his death anyway. Certainly there will be agreements in place in case of the death of one of the shareholders. Once you have those papers and clauses and agreements in front of you - your next step would be to see a good small business lawyer, just to be sure at least this issue is handled immediately and well - in her best interest.

There may even be other small accidental death insurance policies ($1000 to $50K each)- banks and credit unions and credit card issuers offer them routinely.

I agree with whomever mentioned to use a specialty lawyer for each area of concern.

As a widow myself - I receive his SS since mine would be lower.

Sounds like she could potentially pursue a malpractice claim. Get a good lawyers opinion first, then think long and hard before you go that route. It will not be easy or quick.

Abe

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Re: A tragic tale that's probably all too familiar has struck me personally
« Reply #61 on: January 22, 2017, 10:26:41 AM »
Aide of death confirmed by autopsy - punctured spleen caused by the fall / broken ribs.

Why wouldn't the ER have looked for this and not sent him home???  Never even mentioned as a risk or anything remotely like a life or death situation.
  You really need to talk to an attorney who practices medical malpractice (not a standard personal injury attorney).

Ditto. You really need to talk to someone who deals with these kind of questions for a living. Sorry for your loss, was this your Dad?

Yes those calls have been placed. We don't want to sue anyone unnecessarily but right now this appears to be a totally preventable death.

It's not my dad.

I'm sorry to hear that was the case, but from your description was not surprised that was the finding. I see this fairly often as a surgeon with trauma training, so that's the first thing that popped in my mind, but that is also with the benefit of retrospective review. In addition, a person who doesn't see much trauma would be hard pressed to worry about that.

I think you may have a case for damages because it seems the death was preventable, but have no experience with litigation on either side so would recommend talking with an attorney.