Author Topic: A Movement against Degree Inflation  (Read 5037 times)

HBFIRE

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Re: A Movement against Degree Inflation
« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2019, 08:10:02 PM »
Iíve known countless people in my life who were near geniuses, but at the same time, terrible employees. They sucked with people, they sucked to be around, they sucked following though on their responsibilities, sucked managing their time, etc.




There will always be exceptions.  This is just statistical.  Of course other qualities matter as well, but general cognitive ability per the studies and evidence that I've read is by far the most important factor.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 08:21:57 PM by HBFIRE »

ChpBstrd

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Re: A Movement against Degree Inflation
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2019, 08:30:14 PM »
IQ (general cognitive ability) is likely the best predictor of your success in a career -- there is plenty of evidence and research in regards to this.  Those with higher aptitude in problem solving, spatial manipulation, and language acquisition simply outperform their peers and can perform the same job more efficiently and quickly. It's a subject that rubs a lot of people the wrong way so it's rarely discussed (The fact that IQ has a strong genetic basis and is very difficult to change is too undemocratic for many people).  Not sure of the legality in the US, but if I were hiring and it were legal, I would base a large part of the decision on IQ and skillset rather than diploma attained.

Reminds me of the time I took the GRE and soon realized I had forgotten to pee beforehand (the test is hours long). I did fairly, but definitely not well enough to assure my entry into the PhD programs I was eyeballing at tier 1 research universities.

I decided to scavenge up a few hundred more dollars and retake the test the following month, even though a psych professor I consulted assured me of the testís reliability. My scores were about 100 points higher on each part of the exam (the test scored from 200-800 back then). A standard deviation or two, over pee. Makes me wonder how many lives have been ruined and how many dreams crushed by test anxiety, mild colds, poor sleep, ill-fitting clothes, or funny smells.

Wrenchturner

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Re: A Movement against Degree Inflation
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2019, 07:03:57 AM »
IQ is a big predictor for success but so is conscientiousness.  Your capacity to keep at something and commit to it is more useful to an employer than how clever you are, for most jobs anyway.  And you have those idiot savant types that are brilliant but can't stay diligent(high openness).  I'd also argue agreeableness is a big factor for group and office type work.  Herds like animals that look like they do, to be blunt about it.  Outliers that are weirder than simply being new have more liability associated with them(but sometimes they innovate, this is the problem that administrative low-openness people have when they surround themselves entirely with like-thinkers and find themselves unable to produce new ideas).

dogboyslim

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Re: A Movement against Degree Inflation
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2019, 10:49:02 AM »
I routinely hire folks, and my positions require a 4 year degree.  I don't specify which degree, but do have a preference for STEM degrees.  For me the degree says the individual has a broad basis of knowledge and is able to grasp multiple concepts, and likely has learned to solve problems from multiple angles.  That, however isn't enough to get the job.  My career has certification exams, and those are like the job specific skills tests.

Typically, I will look holistically at the individual.  If they have an English or history degree, but has completed the certification exams, I will view that more highly than an individual with a STEM degree and the exams, because they are more well rounded.

As to IQ and career success, I think that depends on what you mean by success.  IQ and hard work will get you to a Sr. level technical position, but you don't get into Sr. Management without the ability to relate to others and to sell.  The CMO really doesn't take kindly to a presentation that is all logic and no story. 

In my role I work with the Sr. leaders in my organization every day.  I haven't pulled out any statistical studies to prove my point.  We did the studies, and they can be proven, but it just works better to translate the statistics into a relate-able story.  The highest IQ individuals in my field are very impressive, but can't explain how to get to the grocery store without including game theory into the conversation.  They will never be Sr. Leaders.

Larsg

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Re: A Movement against Degree Inflation
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2019, 12:56:41 PM »
Spoiler: show
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]I grew up in a hard scrabble environment and although I put myself through school and have done pretty well in life, I have never allowed Degree inflation to override those with Better Talent where I could make a difference. I do the same with leveling the pay playing field. I am an older Gen Xer and have indeed seen a pay gap between Men and Women, Degreed vs Non-Degreed, as well as long standing employees vs new blood that comes in at a higher pay. As a Male leader that has worked for 2 of the major tech firms in my life, I never waited for HR to "Catch Up" and create a policy or actually "DO SOMETHING RIGHT." Where I had control over the promo, raise, bonus, Stock Package budgets, I completed my own analysis on the numbers with the help of finance to ensure that I was not missing anything, along with my careful observation of performance, commitment, output, attitude, etc. This has always resulted in elevation of some, holding flat of others that quite frankly never earned the spot they got - just because they went to an Ivy - and were often held up by others working circles around them. Then I have also pushed put people from organizations who thought they were entitled to an easy path, being out preformed by those with either no degree or from colleges that were state colleges or non ivy.

Every hiring manager, boss, influencer in reviews has the power to normalize - within a range of course- so my advice is to make this a part of your job...no excuses. Examine every year who gets paid what based on what they do. Where you have the budget, work to fix it. It can 't always be done all at once but you can gradually do it over time.

I learned this from someone who did it for me once. I had been promoted from the field into a corporate office where I was supposed to be on par in pay with my peer group but because I came from a lessor college and had worked in a field office for many years, my pay was less from the start as HR pays a premium for top school, and then those in non corporate roles get paid less. I came into the job with a huge gap in pay and in a short time it was very clear that I was significantly outperforming the Ivy's and so during my reviews she would talk me through all the places she was helping to normalize my compensation and that she would get me on par w/the others within 1.5 yrs time and she did. I took that learning and have applied on every new team I inherit, hire, etc. It's easier to do than you think. You just need to dig into and understand the math as well as where you can balance and stretch the ranges within your budget between Cost of Living increases, performance and discretionary bonus, stock, etc. It takes courage to not follow the herd on this one and take a stand by giving someone less deserved a lessor increase than HR or a formula recommends. You can often override those boxes within a range when you are plugging in who gets what in the compensation. Each company will have a different tool or spreadsheet you plug into but learn all about it, pay attention, and fight properly for what your people deserve.

With that I take a lot of pride in those I have elevated in their careers who were far more talented than those with more education. In some instances that talent was being left for dead and branded as "no future" but when you actually teased apart the output of who was doing the work, who was coming up with the ideas, who was building the relationships across the org and getting real things of value done, it was those hiding in the most least likely places. And when I elevated them, just as I knew they would, they thrived. I changed their lives forever just like someone did for me.

Save a life today, save a career, that has lasting impact far more reaching than you can imagine. It's not where they went to school. It's what they have learned, are willing to learn and do. This is every leaders responsibility who owns a performance budget. And to those of you who are parents that have daughters and sons...you need to challenge the gap in pay. I have done deep analysis on this across every firm I have worked for and even when you normalize for kids, LoA's, etc...it does exist. For those in power, shame on you for waiting for anyone else to normalize it. You need to normalize upon every Hire. You need to normalize across your team during every single performance review period - or at least as much as you can. Same job, same commitment and output, same pay period. Otherwise you will answer to the futures of your daughters some day and wonder why they are not as well off as your sons and that is not something that I would ever want to look in the mirror and say I should have/could have done more.

Disparities can be normalized when you hold the purse in any company - at least they can be brought a lot closer together - no excuses.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 01:15:14 PM by Larsg »

waltworks

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Re: A Movement against Degree Inflation
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2019, 08:03:05 PM »
Peter principle, oh man.

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expatartist

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Re: A Movement against Degree Inflation
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2019, 10:05:04 PM »
For those in power, shame on you for waiting for anyone else to normalize it. You need to normalize upon every Hire. You need to normalize across your team during every single performance review period - or at least as much as you can. Same job, same commitment and output, same pay period. Otherwise you will answer to the futures of your daughters some day and wonder why they are not as well off as your sons and that is not something that I would ever want to look in the mirror and say I should have/could have done more.

Disparities can be normalized when you hold the purse in any company - at least they can be brought a lot closer together - no excuses.

Wow Larsg, brilliant analysis. Thank you for articulating this so well. If more people acted like you have, and took responsibility, the world would be a fairer place.