8 year old daughter suseptible to advertising

[partgypsy]

Our 8 year old daughter is great kid, but immature. To put some perspective we live in a modest house in a "good" neighborhood. So she has friends who live in 2 or 3 story houses much bigger than ours often with their own room and playroom. We use Netflix so don't normally see commercials. I normally throw out catalogs (I signed up to not be on mailing list but still get some). We got and she started looking through a toy catalog, and basically wanted something from every page. She said that she wanted to live in a mansion with a big backyard so she could have all these things. I told her that when I was a kid I liked drawing house plans, so maybe she could do that. So, she drew a house plan with everyone having their own bedroom and bath, and separate hidden doors to private places, also an indoor swimming pool and outdoor swimming pool. She said she wished she was rich. I said, well if these things are important to you, you can try to get a job that makes lots of money to save up for a big house. She says she knows that she will never be rich, she just wishes that she had a mansion now and we were rich.

the ironic thing is, everyone else in our house is happy with our situation. We have a beautiful house in a nice neighborhood, they have everything they need and most things they want. We have a positive net worth and don't need to stress about money.
This is not the first time she has said things like this. She says that her favorite holiday is Xmas because of the presents. She does have a couple friends whose parents rent or have smaller homes, but she only looks to those who have more than her.

I am thinking with age and maturity these things will improve, but how does one deal with a child who focuses on these things? She is also a really nice loving kid who helps out around the house, and we have also done some volunteer activities with her to see those less fortunate, but she does have some learning difficulties and doesn't like thinking deeply. For example we will see someone begging on the street from the car and she will says stuff like, "he is poor. He probably doesn't have a house. I feel sorry for him." 

[midweststache]

*Under erasure: I have no children, but I am around them quite a bit and almost all my friends are parents and/or teachers of some stripe. So take my response with much grains of many salt.


Age appropriate-ness, right? Think about ways to clue her into the problems of these things in ways that aren't "Consumerism, bad. Mustachianism, good." (I think this is what you're asking for, yes?)

For instance, in response to the mansion: "That's a very nice drawing, Child. But man oh man, I don't think I would want to live in a house that big. I would feel like Cinderella--I would have to clean all the time! I think our house is JUST right for me." This is an "I" statement, but it also offers her a perspective on her desire that isn't often discussed or considered. Same thing with toys "That is a pretty doll, Child. But what about [insert other doll name here]. She might feel neglected if you have too many dolls." (This is where Toy Story's creepy anthropomorphism can come in handy, maybe.)

I'm sure you already do this, but I would limit her exposure to toy catalogues/TV advertisements/etc as best you can (raising kids is hard, and you make it work, and if that means plopping them in front of Phineas and Ferb on Netflix in order to batch cook on Sundays, do what works!).

[partgypsy]

That is a good idea, framing it that way. I did say, well I'm not sure I would like a house that big, it would be so much cleaning! And she said, "oh you would have a maid." I just worry that she is going to grow up being unhappy for the things  she does not have, versus appreciating the things she does have. I want her to feel good about the life she has, not that it is inadequate. The most important thing for her, she has a high energy level, and need to keep her busy, involved and active. 

[shusherstache]

Along the same lines as midweststache, have you talked to her about the why, not just the what?  It's easy to state a situation but takes more critical thinking to get to why something is the way it is.

Example conversational topics might include:
Why did we (your parents) make a decision to live in a smaller house?
Why might the person be asking for money?
Why do you like the items in the toy catalog?

I bet that she's seeing her friends with more and feels envious, and the desire (more space, more stuff, more presents) is an imaginative way of leveling the playing field in her mind without having the means.  What are the conversations like when her friends come over to your house concerning money and things?

[MrsPete]

What I'm hearing is "teachable moments". 

First, while it's tempting to shield your child from advertising, I think it's a mistake to do so completely.  Instead, start looking at ads together and discuss with her what they're trying to make you believe.  We're ALL influenced by ads, so it's right to help her, to "walk her through it" and help her see what they're promising vs. what the item can deliver.  This is a skill that she needs to develop, and she probably needs your help to get started viewing ads with a critical eye. 

She can probably "see" the truth in ads for products that don't appeal to her /aren't targeted at her.  Cigarette ads would be a good starting place.  Show her a picture of the Marlboro man in his cowboy duds.  Ask her what the ad is promising:  If you use this product, you'll be good looking, tough, independent, strong, sexy.  She's old enough to see that this picture appeals to men -- even if they don't want to be cowboys personally.  Then ask her what the product actually delivers.  She should see a big difference.  Then show her a product for some sort of convenience food:  It'll probably show a woman surrounded by a family sitting down at the table with appreciative looks on their faces.  Ask her what they're selling:  Buy our chicken nuggets, and your clean, well-mannered children (and their father) will rush to the table and look at you as if you're a goddess for popping some chicken nuggets in the oven.  They're selling the promise of a happy family.  Again, she should see that the reality doesn't really match the promise.  Once she can see those differences ... then it's time for her to look at ads directed at her.  Once she's started to see the truth, she'll approach ads with a more critical eye. 

Don't think that she won't continue to be tempted:  We all are.  You'll have to continue to repeat this lesson over and over; after all, the advertisers are providing plenty of follow-up with their lessons! 

Second, she's at a normal age to start comparing herself with other kids.  You have to walk a fine line here.  You don't want to dismiss her comments with a quick, "Oh, we can't afford that."  For one thing, it's probably not true.  For another, it can make her worry that you may not have enough money to survive.  Yet you also don't want to squash her dreams and make her feel that she can't express her thoughts and desires to you. 

When my kids were going through this stage (and it is a stage), I often looked at the item they said they wanted and agreed with them, "Yeah, it would be nice to have _____, wouldn't it?  I bet it'd be fun.  But that's not how Daddy and I choose to spend our money."  This acknowledges that, yes, nice things are -- well, nice.  You're not wrong or bad to want things (that's what I was told growing up, and it's not a good thing to tell a kid).  But we have limited resources, and Daddy and I have made choices.  OFTEN that launched into good discussions about quality vs. quantity, saving vs. spending, and having enough.  Teachable moments. 

Your daughter isn't "there yet", but I see kids at school and through the youth groups with which I work who -- maybe in late middle school through early high school -- pick up the idea that WOW, there's GOOD STUFF OUT THERE!  And if my parents don't have it, they made sucky choices.  Often they start to get the idea that their parents are idiots for not grasping that they could've CHOSEN BETTER!  This is kind of the start of the parents-are-stupid-because-I'm-a-teen-thing.  They start in on the big-unattainable-dreams-unconnected-to-reality:  They're going to become rock stars, models, NFL players, and then they'll have several mansions across the globe as well as a fleet of sports cars, etc., etc., etc.  Basically, they start to imagine themselves as Kardashians.  Did I spell that right?  They get this idea that ANYONE can do these things -- you just have to be smart enough to choose right!  And the kids who get big-time into these ideas tend NOT to see their own efforts and abilities as being tied into those choices.  A kid who's more grounded in reality may flirt with these ideas, but it'll be fleeting moments rather than a genuine belief. 

 

[wtjbatman]

Perhaps start reading Mr Money Mustache articles to your daughter every night instead of bedtime stories.

[MrsPete]

I bet that she's seeing her friends with more and feels envious, and the desire (more space, more stuff, more presents) is an imaginative way of leveling the playing field in her mind without having the means.  What are the conversations like when her friends come over to your house concerning money and things?

Kids this age tend to assume that what they have EVERYONE has -- but these other kids have all the normal stuff PLUS this cool extra!  To a kid, your "positive net worth" is invisible, whereas Jane's new bike is cool!

As I said above, I'd point out to them frequently, "This isn't how Daddy and I chose to spend our money."  And I'd point out that although so-and-so had the newest this-or-that, we went on LOTS more trips than any of their friends.  I'd remind them that they were allowed to go to summer camp twice every summer, they'd been on canoe camping trips, they'd been to every museum in this area, they'd been LOADS of places ... and some of these have-it-all-friends had never even left the state.  Because they LOVED their trips, they started to see things in a different light.  And I pointed out to them that they never had to wait for NEEDS:  that when their shoes wear out, or they need a new coat or glasses, I never had to say, "You'll have to wait for pay day." 

I remember one day when they came with me for a back-to-school teacher workday, and a friend came with them.  At lunchtime I treated them to hamburgers somewhere ... and the friend brought along a book to read.  The four of us ended up sitting at the table a long time, talking and laughing, discussing the upcoming school year.  The friend stayed with us for dinner, and we behaved the same way at dinner.  When she left, the friend said something that made me so sad -- she said, "I love eating with your family.  Y'all are so much fun.  We all just sit and read while we eat.  And I've talked to y'all more today than I've talked to my family this whole summer."  It really stunned me, but my girls took it to heart, and -- not that they weren't appreciative before -- but it made them stop and open their eyes to what they DO have. 

Young kids can't see these things for themselves.  They need a gentle nudge, but if you push too strongly, it can become a negative. 

[Arktinkerer]

Items that helped us with two children--

Discussion about advertising/sales.  Nothing is free.  Emphasized that when watching TV you are essentially "selling your eyeballs" to the advertiser in return for the program.

Owning things comes with issues--storing them, cleaning them, protecting them from theft, all of this is on top of the cost of acquisition.

[HumblePie]

 Does she have much opportunity for alone time?
I agree that this will pass with time and continued modeling by you guys of responsible spending.
 And of course advertising works! That why it's a thing! :)

[expectopatronum]

Our 8 year old daughter is great kid, but immature.
...
I am thinking with age and maturity these things will improve, but how does one deal with a child who focuses on these things? She is also a really nice loving kid who helps out around the house, and we have also done some volunteer activities with her to see those less fortunate, but she does have some learning difficulties and doesn't like thinking deeply. For example we will see someone begging on the street from the car and she will says stuff like, "he is poor. He probably doesn't have a house. I feel sorry for him."

To be fair, I think that most 8-year-olds would be considered immature : )

I really like MrsPete's advice. I don't have kids of my own yet, but having been one, I definitely remember going through a phase where I was discovering how other kids lived. It was mostly between 2nd and 4th grades as this was when I started going to friends' houses more often and occasionally spending the night. They had Goldfish in their lunches! They lived in a community with a gate! We used to play this girly game called "MASH", and obviously it was the best if it told you that you'd live in a "mansion" when you grew up.

I'm not really sure when this phase tapered off. Maybe middle school? As my perceived "needs" started to outpace my allowance, I started recognizing the value of money more. I had a really good work ethic in high school and college, but didn't know much about how to manage money. Now that I'm two years out of college, I feel pretty confident in my money skills. I had a frugal inclination that grew more and more as it was nurtured by parents who provided a really good context for learning - giving me enough freedom to make some financial "mistakes" but also generally keeping me on track.

To some degree, my dreaming of fancy things was a sort of escapism. I think that the more independent I got (high school, college, young adult), the more realistic I became about what I REALLY wanted out of life.

Re: ads, I think this depends on the kid how you present it and how in-depth to go. IMO this is a fairly advanced concept - one that a lot of adults don't even recognize. I mean, do we really think that drinking a certain beer will make us look cool, have lots of friends, and a night to remember? Or that buying a certain peanut butter makes parenting any easier or us a better parent? Meh. I think it's a great idea to introduce them to the concept though and starting building the skill of recognition.

Second, she's at a normal age to start comparing herself with other kids.  You have to walk a fine line here.  You don't want to dismiss her comments with a quick, "Oh, we can't afford that."  For one thing, it's probably not true.  For another, it can make her worry that you may not have enough money to survive.  Yet you also don't want to squash her dreams and make her feel that she can't express her thoughts and desires to you. 

I second this advice. "We can't afford it" when you actually can gives kids a very distorted view of the family finances and can cause them a lot of anxiety. I think it also misses the opportunity to teach the difference between being able to afford something (having enough $ in the bank) versus choosing not to buy something because it's not a priority...a cornerstone of making good financial decisions.

[HipGnosis]

+ 1 on teachable moments
I bet her 'rich' friends have a lot less quality family time than she does.  I feel sad for them (sincerely).

And + 1 on not shielding kids from everything - it makes them vulnerable when they eventually come across it (and in my opinion, is just lazy).

Oh, and almost everyone, at almost every age, is susceptible to marketing and peer pressure.   

And... some people feel they have to take their decisions to the extreem to give them merit (coff MMM  coff).  I see it as a skewed extension of Maslow's hierarchy of needs...  all real needs are met, and now they 'must' prove how right they are.

[trailrated]

She's 8, don't think you need to sound the alarms just yet. Sounds like you have a loving home and a good family, she will figure it out :)

[partgypsy]

Thanks for all your feedback, didn't know how normal this is. when I was growing up I was blissfully ignorant about money, and in HS if anything rebelled from 80's consumer culture.
 
She has an older sister who was basically "born" an adult (always been very mature for her age), so I think she seems even more "young" in comparison. We are starting her in a private school for her learning difficulties, so she probably has heard us talking about that, and things will be tight for us the next couple years, so that may feed into her thoughts.

About families with big houses not necessarily being better. Two of our neighbors in big houses are having marital difficulties. Also my parents-in-law friends and neighbors, poured all their money into their custom design "dream home". He was older and lost his job, they had to sell their dream house. I want to be in a situation where I don't have to worry about that happening to us. 

[mxt0133]

I would be as honest with your child as you can, depending on their age and comprehension level.  My son loves to toys and asks for them constantly.  I try not to berate him because hell I like toys too!  But I try to make him understand that he has a lot of toys already, very generous grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbors, ect., and that we don't have much room for them.  I also tell him about money and were it come from.  So when he asks me to buy something, sometimes I tell him that I will have to work more if we keep buying things and that I would much rather spend time with him to play.  He thinks about and most of time he say that he wants me to stay home instead of working more.

I basically try not to dismiss his wants and try not to over do the teachable moments but I try to be as honest with him about my values and how I would make certain choices.

Definitely continue to model the behavior you want to instill and talk about why your family decides not to have too much stuff or go on fancy vacations, ect.  But try not to dismiss their feelings and if they want a big mansion and it makes them happy so be it.

[swick]

+100 to MrsPete's awesome responses and teachable moments!

Our 8 year old daughter is great kid, but immature. To put some perspective we live in a modest house in a "good" neighborhood. So she has friends who live in 2 or 3 story houses much bigger than ours often with their own room and playroom. We use Netflix so don't normally see commercials. I normally throw out catalogs (I signed up to not be on mailing list but still get some). We got and she started looking through a toy catalog, and basically wanted something from every page.

I honestly don't think it is possible to shield kids from advertising, even if you keep it out of your house you can bet they are being bombarded with it out in the world and in their classrooms. I think the best strategy is to use it as a teaching tool.

A great resource is "Center for a commercial-free childhood" I referenced it quite a bit when I did a post on how junk food is marketed to kids a few years ago. It's here if you are interested: http://growingcreativekids.com/marketing-to-kids-food-marketing/

 It is truly scary how corporations use product placement and create "educational" resources for schools with their marketing message as part of the curriculum. If you can't avoid  the messages your best bet is to use them in a way that is constructive. Through repetition you will build your child's critical thinking muscle. Most adults don't know how we are manipulated by advertising, how can we expect kids to?

I do have a couple of other posts, that I think would be directly relevant for you, Partgypsy - if you are interested send me a PM and I will share them with you, I don't want to spam your thread :)

[FrugalShrew]

Is there anything you can do that's "cooler" than the rich friends? That can help a lot to offset jealousy.

My favorite example of this from my own life was when I was a teen, some of my friends got new cars, and I got a third-hand "old lady" car passed down from my mom. Having more life perspective now, I realize that I was actually quite spoiled to be receiving a car in the first place, but at the time, I was admittedly a little bummed. Well, my parents let me paint the car purple and trick out the inside with a fun steering wheel cover, floor mats, etc. (altogether still a fraction of the price of a new car), and at the end of the day, my friends were jealous of me! Because their parents wouldn't let them do anything so wild and silly to their cars.

That theme was true throughout my entire childhood, too. Yeah, sometimes friends would have bigger houses or the latest toys or whatever. But I had the best Halloween costumes because my mom would sew them, the best birthday parties because my mom planned fun kids' games, etc. I was allowed to play in the sand, play with paint, and have huge bins of dress-up clothes. We had dinner together every night, we went camping a lot, and we did chores together as a family.

It didn't take me too long to figure out that a life with lots of family time, creativity, and silliness was way more enviable than a life of expensive stuff and purchased experiences.

[partgypsy]

Swick, spam away! Ironically I watch brain games (tv show) with the kids, and the last one we watch was about persuasion.

[partgypsy]

frugal shrew, sounds like a great childhood! Sounds similar to my childhood (but then I didn't envy anyone as a walk in a forest preserve, or reading a book was my idea of heaven). Yeah I usually make our own pinata for the kids birthday party, she has lots of dress up clothes (too many toys and dolls, most from family members).  Husband is stay at home during the week, which a lot of kids don't have. Also my husband's family has a cabin on a number of acreagee by a beautiful pristine river. I feel blessed whenever I go there, and so do the kids.

This wanting is reflecting of her personality. She is a more social person than I am. She notices what people do and say (more than I do) she is also more a lover of popular culture than I was telling me what her various classmates are doing for vacation, making up songs after seeing frozen, wanting to dress up for halloween whatever tv show she is watching), or imitate the moves from a dance video. Myself half the Halloweens I dressed up as a gypsy, as I got to wear a bunch of (costume) jewelry and a bunch of scarfs and stuff laying around (aka my handle). It's good to hear this is normal.

[FrugalShrew]

It was a great childhood -- somehow I have let my life become the opposite of that in the last few years (corporate attorney in the city, not sure how the heck that happened!), but trying to build up the 'stache and hopefully can rebalance my life soon. Growing up I was probably more like you in that some fads just passed me by because my nose was in a book :)

Hopefully your daughter appreciates all the wonderful benefits you described even though she might be more vocal about the additional things she wants. You're right that some people naturally place a higher value on the social benefits of spending, and there may be some financial lessons she just needs to learn for herself. My sister went through a phase in high school where she wanted brand name things: coach purse, ugg boots, etc. My mom was a little freaked out but good-naturedly let her have 1 fancy item for Christmas each year for a couple of years, anything else she had to buy for herself, which she did by getting a part-time job. Then she got to college and realized that there were a lot more important things that she needed money for: tuition, rent, utilities. I haven't seen her buy a designer anything since she started college and she laughs at her past self for wanting those things. She outgrew that desire on her own. (Though she'll likely always be a bit more "normal" and spendy than me).

Are you able to DIY popular stuff like the Halloween costumes? (although your gypsy costume sounds like a blast :) I've done things like tie-dye "sports" shirts with friends so I could root for the home team without shelling out for gear. I'd encourage your daughter's social organizing skills, too -- it's easy to feel left out if everyone is going to the movies ($$) on a Saturday afternoon except for you, but if everyone is going to the park to play soccer (free) instead, it's a win-win. (This is a skill I still have to work on. I can't just turn people down for the "normal" stuff; it's really easy to become isolated that way. I have to actively suggest the fun frugal things I'd like to do, and more often than not, people are game. I think MMM mentioned this in a post once -- creating an alternate positive experience is socially way better than just turning down the existing experience).

[mozar]

I would ask why she thinks she can never be rich? It's possible to start from nothing and with smart business deals and compounding she can be rich. I would see this as an opening to talk about how businesses work, what a business plan is, how the stock market works, so she can see how people actually get money.

Joshua Kennon has some good posts on how to get rich, How To Get Rich is a good book by Felix Dennis. You can get rich though passive income (real estate investing, royalties, investing in other peoples businesses, or providing a value add, and stocks!) and have a high quality lifestyle, but it takes years of hard work (like most of us are doing here).

Also good opener to talk about actually being rich vs having stuff. A lot of her friends parents probably are in debt for all this stuff. You don't own stuff, it owns you. Rich is being able to choose how you spend your time, not a $10,000 couch, although it's possible to have both!

[swick]

Swick, spam away! Ironically I watch brain games (tv show) with the kids, and the last one we watch was about persuasion.

Only because you asked :)

You mentioned her favorite time of year being Christmas because of the presents, here are some ideas about making Christmas about "Presence" instead: http://growingcreativekids.com/presence-vs-presents-how-to-have-a-creative-holiday-season/

And you have mentioned some learning challenges. She might benefit if you can draw a concrete correlation between "time" and "money" I have a post on how you can visually demonstrate the connection here: http://growingcreativekids.com/making-the-most-of-every-moment/ it is more focused on the "time" aspect but you could extend it to focus on how money=time and for more stuff, bigger house it eats into your supply of money which in turn, eats into your time and time is a finite resource. If you want any help developing some further activities, let me know.

I'm actually working on developing a customized coaching program for families to help with specific topics/challenges (kinda like this) So if you want o be a guinea pig, send me a PM :)

Oh, there are also lots of posts on my site about recognizing and utilizing different learning styles and multiple intelligences. Would probably be useful for your daughter as well. I have found that there is usually a blend of learning styles/preferences within a family that can make learning/communication a challenge sometimes. Just being aware of HOW each member learns and communicates best can make a huge difference :)

[partgypsy]

Swick, thanks so much for the link, I appreciate it!

Yeah the comment that "I'll never be rich" took me by surprise.

[RetiredAt63]

Teachable moments - grab them when they come up, they stick with the kids more than if you bring up a topic out of the blue.  I did it as much as possible - smoking (he looks like the man in 101 Dalmatians, with that pipe - do you like the smell?), driving (did you see what that driver did? Was it safe?), cycling (we made fun of cyclists without helmets, she had a friend who had been in a bike accident and the helmet took a beating, glad it wasn't the friend's head), and so on.  Analyzing ads - definitely.  And make fun of the ads, how silly of them to think we can't see what they are trying to make us think.  Encourage the independent thinking.

We went through this lifestyle comparison, but at a later age.  In elementary school DD's friends were from a variety of income groups, but many had a lot less than we did, so the looking-up comparisons were few.  High school, oh my yes.  We would discuss the bigger picture - yes so-and-so has more, but what do her parents do?  How much time does the friend get to spend with her parents?  What is the down side to their life style?  What is the money/time trade-off?  As teachers, we had enough but not lots, and we had summers off - so there were a lot of activities she could do because we had the time.  Plus we had a moderate house in lots of woods, so she had free time and a place for unstructured play (= she was in our woods, safe and having fun, and we had no clue about any more detail than that), as compared to manicured lawns and gardens.  Sure they look up, but get them to look in all directions.  It helps if your neighbourhood (or child's school) has lots of variety.

[jba302]

What I'm hearing is "teachable moments". 

First, while it's tempting to shield your child from advertising, I think it's a mistake to do so completely.  Instead, start looking at ads together and discuss with her what they're trying to make you believe.  We're ALL influenced by ads, so it's right to help her, to "walk her through it" and help her see what they're promising vs. what the item can deliver.  This is a skill that she needs to develop, and she probably needs your help to get started viewing ads with a critical eye. 

She can probably "see" the truth in ads for products that don't appeal to her /aren't targeted at her.  Cigarette ads would be a good starting place.  Show her a picture of the Marlboro man in his cowboy duds.  Ask her what the ad is promising:  If you use this product, you'll be good looking, tough, independent, strong, sexy.  She's old enough to see that this picture appeals to men -- even if they don't want to be cowboys personally.  Then ask her what the product actually delivers.  She should see a big difference.  Then show her a product for some sort of convenience food:  It'll probably show a woman surrounded by a family sitting down at the table with appreciative looks on their faces.  Ask her what they're selling:  Buy our chicken nuggets, and your clean, well-mannered children (and their father) will rush to the table and look at you as if you're a goddess for popping some chicken nuggets in the oven.  They're selling the promise of a happy family.  Again, she should see that the reality doesn't really match the promise.  Once she can see those differences ... then it's time for her to look at ads directed at her.  Once she's started to see the truth, she'll approach ads with a more critical eye. 

Don't think that she won't continue to be tempted:  We all are.  You'll have to continue to repeat this lesson over and over; after all, the advertisers are providing plenty of follow-up with their lessons! 

Second, she's at a normal age to start comparing herself with other kids.  You have to walk a fine line here.  You don't want to dismiss her comments with a quick, "Oh, we can't afford that."  For one thing, it's probably not true.  For another, it can make her worry that you may not have enough money to survive.  Yet you also don't want to squash her dreams and make her feel that she can't express her thoughts and desires to you. 

When my kids were going through this stage (and it is a stage), I often looked at the item they said they wanted and agreed with them, "Yeah, it would be nice to have _____, wouldn't it?  I bet it'd be fun.  But that's not how Daddy and I choose to spend our money."  This acknowledges that, yes, nice things are -- well, nice.  You're not wrong or bad to want things (that's what I was told growing up, and it's not a good thing to tell a kid).  But we have limited resources, and Daddy and I have made choices.  OFTEN that launched into good discussions about quality vs. quantity, saving vs. spending, and having enough.  Teachable moments. 

Your daughter isn't "there yet", but I see kids at school and through the youth groups with which I work who -- maybe in late middle school through early high school -- pick up the idea that WOW, there's GOOD STUFF OUT THERE!  And if my parents don't have it, they made sucky choices.  Often they start to get the idea that their parents are idiots for not grasping that they could've CHOSEN BETTER!  This is kind of the start of the parents-are-stupid-because-I'm-a-teen-thing.  They start in on the big-unattainable-dreams-unconnected-to-reality:  They're going to become rock stars, models, NFL players, and then they'll have several mansions across the globe as well as a fleet of sports cars, etc., etc., etc.  Basically, they start to imagine themselves as Kardashians.  Did I spell that right?  They get this idea that ANYONE can do these things -- you just have to be smart enough to choose right!  And the kids who get big-time into these ideas tend NOT to see their own efforts and abilities as being tied into those choices.  A kid who's more grounded in reality may flirt with these ideas, but it'll be fleeting moments rather than a genuine belief.

[dycker1978]

OMG the child is 8.  Let them be a kid and teach them.  Wow, I cannot believe people today, and 8 year old will act exactly like a 8 year old.  It is normal to want things, even I as a musctachian want stuff from time to time.  I can control it because I am not 8.  Let the poor kid be a kid.

[teen persuasion]

Good thread - lots of great ideas.

My DS5 is very susceptible to advertising, he sees an ad on tv and he's convinced that item is the best new thing ever, even if it isn't marketed to him (like a kitchen appliance)!  We laugh at it, and then have a discussion:  why is this so great?  Do I really need/want it?  Would I really use it?  Why can't I use X instead?  We may point out flaws that he didn't notice, drawbacks, other alternatives, why we've chosen differently, examine value and cost.  We try to give him some perspective on the cost - what else that $ could buy, etc.  He's become better about looking at ads critically as he's maturing (he's 10 now), but as another poster said: advertising works, it's hard to tune it all out.

Regarding your daughter's obvious interest in houses, amenities, etc.: consider other ways to channel it.  Would she enjoy a doll house to decorate?  Encourage the creative aspects of this outlet, making furnishings rather than buying (preferably your daughter with some help from family members, and not just mom making everything).  There's also the digital version: Minecraft creative.  My kids and nephews are constantly building castles and towers and libraries, then sharing them and exploring each others' worlds.  The ability to instantly "create" what she can now only visualize might be all she needs.  Kids like to fantasize, explore other possibilities.  Let them, as much as possible, that's one way they learn and grow intellectually.

Slightly OT, but yesterday DS4 and I got into a conversation about a fantasy RPG they play, perhaps Runescape and a past experience he had with in-game scamming.  Players often learn to exploit glitches that may allow them to accumulate more "stuff" (they are always collecting gold, armor, spells, food, etc.) and scammers would offer to double a sum of coins.  After doing it a few times for small amounts, they would eventually offer to do a larger amount, and disappear.  He was younger and naive, and allowed a scammer to "double" everything he had.  Wiped him out.  He was embarrassed to be taken in, but the wheels in his head started turning.  He recognized the scam for what it was, and how to turn the tables on the scammers (only let them double small amounts, and then stop).  The discussion led me to realise the lessons he'd learned from this game and episode: having stuff means you need to worry about it, not everyone is what they seem so think about their motives, evaluate risks vs payoff, don't get greedy, get rich quick schemes fail, never put all your eggs in one basket, don't be afraid to try something with a small portion only, keep the majority of your savings in the "bank" (if they die they lose everything they carry, but banked items persist).  I also realized the virtual accumulation could be something of a proxy for financial experimentation.  Can't you just see an MMM RPG?

[swick]

Can't you just see an MMM RPG?

One of our forum members created an old school style RPG game:http://store.steampowered.com/app/349500/

[Apples]

I have a vivid memory of being about 7 or 8 and seeing an ad for Pantene Pro-V on TV.  It would make your hair THE BEST!  My mom actually used Pantene, but I had "kids shampoo" of some variety, and I didn't have any big interest in hair, makeup, or clothes.  But I remember standing there in the kitchen watching the ad, and first off being amazed at all the claims about how it worked so well and was actually the best.  I think I asked my mom who would buy any other shampoo when this one was obviously so good.  I also had a weird sense of pride that my mom used the best stuff.  In the moment I think my mom shrugged it off as yes I like my shampoo, but there's lots of good ones out there.  And you can't believe everything you see in ads-they stretch the truth (and added some anecdote where she asks if I've eaten my vegetables and I say yes I have, even though there's some left-streeetching the truth).  That's my first solid memory of being mesmerized by an ad and really truly believing everything it said.

Plus, we got to go through toy magazines every Christmas.  If your daughter is anything like me and my siblings, some thought went into choosing items, but really it was a gut "I want that" feeling that led to circling something.  Once we had our fun going through, we got to each choose 1 or 2 things we realllly wanted, and another 3 or 4 that would be nice to have.  But it was clear everything was wants, and we had to learn to prioritize.  Not that we didn't whine and complain about it :p  So possibly you don't need to put much concern in how much oohing and aahing happens over magazines-it's just fun to dream.

[mlejw6]

Everyone has great ideas about the advertising. I have a little different perspective for you to think about.

I'm a big fan of the Myers Briggs personality typing. Perhaps your daughter has a different type than the rest of your family, and that is causing some frustration you are feeling? You can read up on the 16 different types and see if one resonates for your daughter. It may be her immaturity is simply a difference of types. For instance, perhaps you all are T (thinking) types that value logical thinking over emotions, while she is an F (feeling) type that uses her emotions to process her experiences. Or, maybe, she is a Sensor (S) type that processes her experiences through her five senses rather than an INtuitive type (N) that processes experiences through inner intuition. Just a couple of ideas for you. If you find this to be the case, you can tweak some of your parenting techniques to appeal to her personality preferences.

I grew up in a family of INFPs, but I am an ISTJ/ISTP type. Everyone else wanted to go to museums when I wanted to go out and ride my bicycle. They were all happy reading books while I preferred to play in the woods or watch a movie.

[teen persuasion]

Can't you just see an MMM RPG?

One of our forum members created an old school style RPG game:http://store.steampowered.com/app/349500/

LOL, thanks for the link!  Not sure a cubicle based game would appeal to my kids, though.  I was envisioning more of all the expense optimizing and tax hacking, Roth pipeline, etc.  But I'm weird that way - still probably wouldn't appeal to kids.  Facepunches might.

[Cpa Cat]

I think I'd be more concerned that your daughter knows she'll never be rich. Eight seems young to be limiting her aspirations. While I don't know that I'd focus on "Of course you can and should be rich!" I'd at least want to understand why she thinks she CAN'T be rich and be mindful of her self-esteem.

She's at an age where the sky should be the limit.

Anyway, I have a feeling that if you asked her, she could give it some thought and rank her top three house features or top three toy-magazine picks (although I'd go suggest top ten for the toys, to get a good range of affordability).

[partgypsy]

All good food for thought. She does love watching tv but in general is more of an interactive sensory, physical person than the rest of the family (though my husband when a kid was very physical, into everything including getting into trouble). It is on hiatus but she takes karate. Zips around in her scooter, loves taking the dog for walks. She does have a big dollhouse, and that is one of the things she likes to do is reorganize it. Sometimes that involves me "making" (ie cutting out maybe a little sewing scraps of fabric) things like curtains or room dividers, carpets, bedspreads. She wanted me to make an elevator for it too (she noticed there is no way to actually get from 2 diff floors) but instead she has a rope they use for climbing. She does have a good imagination.
   

[MrsPete]

+ 1 on teachable moments
I bet her 'rich' friends have a lot less quality family time than she does.  I feel sad for them (sincerely).

Now wait a minute, assuming that "rich friends" parents aren't spending time with the family is just as bad as kids assuming that these friends are happier because of their material goods. 

I've worked with a church youth group for the last 15-16 years, and -- by pure chance -- we have a large proportion of single-child, double-income families.  In short, we have more than our share of "rich friends".  Most of them DO spend loads of time with their kids, are very involved in their educations and activities, etc.  I could name some things that I personally think aren't right: 

- One mom who's never managed to make a real connection with her daughter, though she's tried (I personally think the daughter has some form of autism because she doesn't connect with anyone); as a result, she buys her everything.
- One mom who absolutely favors her daughter over her two sons.
- Two families who are sheltering their children far too much. 

But I think it's grossly unfair to think that "rich people" don't spend time with their kids.  (I'm thinking about a good friend of mine whom I know is a multi-millionaire; she's quick to pull out the sleeping bag and help supervise an overnight in the church fellowship hall.  And then there's her husband, who won't spend the night, but who can be counted upon to show up the next morning with a basket full of sausage biscuits for the group.) 

[MrsPete]

All good food for thought. She does love watching tv but in general is more of an interactive sensory, physical person than the rest of the family (though my husband when a kid was very physical, into everything including getting into trouble). It is on hiatus but she takes karate. Zips around in her scooter, loves taking the dog for walks. She does have a big dollhouse, and that is one of the things she likes to do is reorganize it. Sometimes that involves me "making" (ie cutting out maybe a little sewing scraps of fabric) things like curtains or room dividers, carpets, bedspreads. She wanted me to make an elevator for it too (she noticed there is no way to actually get from 2 diff floors) but instead she has a rope they use for climbing. She does have a good imagination.
 

I'd look into putting her into a sewing class (and talk to her about how no one can alter their own clothes these days, so they pay $$$ for it), and I'd watch Shark Tank with her so she can see that creating a unique clothing item can be morphed into a personal business.  I'd talk to her about the job of interior design.  In short, I'd show her that her interests CAN be made into a good job -- but don't let her think that such jobs are all just drawing pretty pictures; make her understand that such jobs require some business know-how too. 

[Leanthree]

My 4 year old nephew randomly asked my sister in law during dinner prep a few months ago "Mommy, is Nationwide on my side?"

"Uhh, yeah, I guess so"

Advertising works on people of all ages! Sometimes it is hilarious and sometimes it is terrifying.

[partgypsy]

All good food for thought. She does love watching tv but in general is more of an interactive sensory, physical person than the rest of the family (though my husband when a kid was very physical, into everything including getting into trouble). It is on hiatus but she takes karate. Zips around in her scooter, loves taking the dog for walks. She does have a big dollhouse, and that is one of the things she likes to do is reorganize it. Sometimes that involves me "making" (ie cutting out maybe a little sewing scraps of fabric) things like curtains or room dividers, carpets, bedspreads. She wanted me to make an elevator for it too (she noticed there is no way to actually get from 2 diff floors) but instead she has a rope they use for climbing. She does have a good imagination.
 

I'd look into putting her into a sewing class (and talk to her about how no one can alter their own clothes these days, so they pay $$$ for it), and I'd watch Shark Tank with her so she can see that creating a unique clothing item can be morphed into a personal business.  I'd talk to her about the job of interior design.  In short, I'd show her that her interests CAN be made into a good job -- but don't let her think that such jobs are all just drawing pretty pictures; make her understand that such jobs require some business know-how too.

Interesting. My mother (like many in her generation) knew how to sew. My sister and my little brother continued to sew after their sewing classes in HS, and my lil brother even had a side business in making customized clothes (snow gear, camo pants, etc). Sister will often deconstruct and remake pieces of clothing she buys for cheap. I guess they were before their time! However I don't know how to sew other than simple darning and patching. We do have a sewing machine someone gifted us, but I have never even taken it out of the box. But she has asked me before to show her how to sew.

Update to susceptibility. We had a family trip and stayed with the cousins. Her lil cousin has Monster High dolls, so on trip back she informed me that she wants to get rid of all her Barbies and replace them with Monster High dolls. My older sister terms these "(lil sister's) new obsession."

[mskyle]

You mention that her "house plan" specifically had lots of private spaces... does she not have much privacy now? Is there a way you could create a private space for her, even if it's something kind of silly like a bed tent? (Maybe I'm projecting here - I shared a bedroom with my sister growing up, and I really didn't like it, and in retrospect it really wasn't necessary given that we had an extra bedroom/office, a finished basement, and a formal front parlor that we never used, but I was a kid and it was The Way Things Were and I didn't question it.)

Basically, can you work with her to get her *some* of the things she wants, if they're reasonable and not unaffordable?

[partgypsy]

You mention that her "house plan" specifically had lots of private spaces... does she not have much privacy now? Is there a way you could create a private space for her, even if it's something kind of silly like a bed tent? (Maybe I'm projecting here - I shared a bedroom with my sister growing up, and I really didn't like it, and in retrospect it really wasn't necessary given that we had an extra bedroom/office, a finished basement, and a formal front parlor that we never used, but I was a kid and it was The Way Things Were and I didn't question it.)

Basically, can you work with her to get her *some* of the things she wants, if they're reasonable and not unaffordable?

She has her own bedroom, and there are other away places in our house. Just that we have neighbors, and she has friends who not only have their own bedroom, but also their own playroom, etc. She hasn't mentioned any of that recently though. She herself says that she has too many toys, but she also has a hard time choosing what to get rid of, store.

[Mika M]

I might respond with things like, "Sure, it's fun to fantasize about having fancy stuff, but giant houses cost a whole lot of money on extra space you probably won't even use much! Even if I had Warren Buffet's (or whoever rich and famous person she can identify) money I don't think I'd feel like having a giant house."

From the sound of the conversation on this thread the mentality does seem temporary so you probably don't have much to worry about. I was a bit of a late bloomer, too, and I remember being about that age and my parents getting catalogues in the mail and it wouldn't matter what they were for - toys, furniture, women's office clothes, flower bulbs - I'd flip through them fantasizing about everything I'd get if I had unlimited funds.

While I did still grow up with a miscellaneous, small-item/latte factor spending problem, I did become a pretty low-maintenance, tomboy of a teenager as I got into things like the Seattle Sound, learning to play guitar, and various rebellious-punky-teenager fun.

[CletusMcGee]

At least your kid isn't demanding a personal injury lawyer themed birthday party like this kid. 

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/30/louisiana_mother_throws_personal_injury_lawyer_themed_birthday_party_for_commercial_obsessed_baby/

[Bob W]

I would run with it --- " A big house with a maid!  That would be super cool.  Let's pretend.  Now who should be the maid first?"   

You also might start a chore list now that she is 8.  Daily chores,  plus weekly chores,  plus special chores,  plus help mommie = so much pay per chore.   Then encourage her to invest 50%,  spend 40%  and give 10% to charity.   After a few years of that she will begin to understand basic money concepts. 

I have an 8 year old son (as of Monday) who continues his birthday list additions after the fact.   Apparently a Noby and a bunch of other stuff is not enough.  the kids room is paced full of toys as it is.   Still the Gold Xbox he speaks of sounds pretty cool and I might roll over on that by xmas.

In fact, I rather like your daughter's way of thinking as I may enjoy those things and a maid as well.   Perhaps after a couple of years of money teaching you can have a more serious discussion of how she might achieve those desires while also being a cool person?

Our daughter just turned 30 and can afford all those cool nice things,  including the nanny and maid.   Of course she works a lot too.  So there is that. 

[partgypsy]

I would run with it --- " A big house with a maid!  That would be super cool.  Let's pretend.  Now who should be the maid first?"   

You also might start a chore list now that she is 8.  Daily chores,  plus weekly chores,  plus special chores,  plus help mommie = so much pay per chore.   Then encourage her to invest 50%,  spend 40%  and give 10% to charity.   After a few years of that she will begin to understand basic money concepts. 

I have an 8 year old son (as of Monday) who continues his birthday list additions after the fact.   Apparently a Noby and a bunch of other stuff is not enough.  the kids room is paced full of toys as it is.   Still the Gold Xbox he speaks of sounds pretty cool and I might roll over on that by xmas.

In fact, I rather like your daughter's way of thinking as I may enjoy those things and a maid as well.   Perhaps after a couple of years of money teaching you can have a more serious discussion of how she might achieve those desires while also being a cool person?

Our daughter just turned 30 and can afford all those cool nice things,  including the nanny and maid.   Of course she works a lot too.  So there is that.

wow you are ambitious. I think you even lost me there.
She does help around the house, she's good that way. They each get an allowance, but it gets automatically transferred in an account so it is generally not touched, but we intermittently reward for activities around the house, especially if it is self-initiated. Both kids have learned about "money". We had something delivered in a big cardboard box the other day, so they cut a window in it, to be a store. My 8 year olds in it with some dried cereal asking if anyone wants some I say sure, and she says give me some money, so I mime giving her something, and she says "No, REAL money!" Had to give her a quarter to get some honeycombs, sheesh. But then they discovered that it was more fun to get the dog into the store/box, and then hold bits of dog food so the dog would lunge it's head out the window to get the food, so that ended the "store" game. 

[MrsPete]

Update to susceptibility. We had a family trip and stayed with the cousins. Her lil cousin has Monster High dolls, so on trip back she informed me that she wants to get rid of all her Barbies and replace them with Monster High dolls. My older sister terms these "(lil sister's) new obsession."

What I'm hearing is that she had a great time playing with her cousin ... and she figures all that fun must've happened because her cousin has this specific type of doll.  You and I know that the fun came from being with the cousin. 

How I'd approach this:

- Say, "Okay, I hear you saying you're tired of your old Barbies and want these new dolls.  What can these new dolls do that the Barbies can't?"  The answer, of course, will be NOTHING because we all know that dolls run on IMAGINATION.  But don't expect her to come to that conclusion quickly; let her work her way to it, and help her see that the real fun was in playing with her cousin.   
- I'd work in her interest in sewing and outfitting and see if she could make Monster-High type outfits for her Barbies.  (FYI: When I was in 3rd grade, I was very sick and spent a whole month in bed.  During that time I learned to sew by making Barbie clothes.)
- If she persists in her interest, I'd tell her to put them on her Christmas (or maybe birthday, if that's soon) list.  When my girls were small, I didn't often buy toys "just because", but I'd usually get them the things they really, really wanted at Christmas -- they figured that out and became more selective about what they put on their lists.