5:2 Frugality

[deborah]

I was looking at this article http://www.dailylife.com.au/health-and-fitness/dl-wellbeing/can-the-52-principle-be-applied-to-all-areas-of-your-life-20140424-375lz.html

Tracey Gough has adapted the 5:2 regime for her finances. "Being frugal five days a week has meant we have saved a deposit for a house and really become conscious of where we were spending money unnecessarily," the 36-year-old Sydneysider says. "Being so dedicated in the week also means that on the weekends we enjoy our money much more, and feel less guilty about spending it on family day trips or going out for dinner.

"Applying the principles of the 5:2 in terms of how we spend and save our money has created a much better balance for us financially."

Although later in the article they suggest a 2:5 approach to this. I wondered whether people in this forum use this technique - it appears a bit wimpish to me.

[agent_clone]

It seems odd to me as well... Its really easy to go spend a few hundred bucks in a day.  Just because you don't spend a lot the rest of the week, doesn't mean that it benefits your finances...

[Savvy Saver]

Being frugal is a mindset. You just can't change your mindset 2 days a week, and I'm not sure if you'd want to if you really were frugal at heart. Frugal people don't feel "guilty" when they do spend because they don't squander their money. Being frugal is being smarter with money than most people, and most frugal people I know are proud of that.

It sounds like Ms. Gough doesn't really have a frugal mindset, she is just depriving herself 5 days a week because she has to. Maybe that is how some people need to get started. For people that are having trouble controlling spending, it may be worth a try, but I think in the long run, you need to develop the frugal mindset to be happy if you want to be financially independent. I wouldn't want to live my life feeling deprived 5 days a week.

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[kyanamerinas]

i think it could help if you identified your naturally spendy days (probs the weekend when not working) and made those frugal days.
that might allow you to go out for a meal one or two days in the week, maybe buy a few things you've thought about (not as much time after work for shopping-as-leisure) whilst encouraging you too think of cheaper and more creative ways to spend the weekend, walks/cooking/sport/free events/library.
but really this sounds wimpy and like a cop out.

[MrsPete]

I think this could work for a person who is overspending on little things and not thinking about it:  Buying a cup of coffee, buying lunch out and then window shopping (which always ends in actual buying), etc., etc., etc.  Not that cutting back to 25% of your impulse buying is particularly frugal, but for some people it's better than nothing.  If it were used correctly:  That is, if it were used as a way of recognizing that these things aren't necessary, then it could be a good first step. 

Will it yield big results?  Not unless the individual has been extremely wasteful in his or her spending. 

[dcheesi]

It can be a useful first step for folks who "work hard, play hard". Often people who work a lot end up spending money during the week just for convenience, or to decompress after work; those are areas where a bit of planning can create a new routine that is much cheaper and just as easy to maintain. Meanwhile, those same folks tend to find their only time for real enjoyment on the weekends, so curtailing those activities might feel like more of a hardship.

Personally I deal with something similar even though I don't overwork myself that much. I'm in a long-ish distance relationship, and we only get to see each other on the weekends. That seems to create some pressure to go and do things when we're together, even though we're both happy to stay home most of the time otherwise. I've optimized my weekday routine as much as possible, in part to allow for more "slop" on the weekends when our activities are more varied and spontaneous.

[limeandpepper]

Yeah, it seems kind of gimmicky. I guess if someone is a spendthrift 24/7 then this could still be one small step that will hopefully somehow guide them to a better path...

[DollarBill]

I've only done the 5:2 when it comes to eating. Eat good for 5 days and eat whatever on the weekends...is that the same??

[Nords]

It looks like the author has found a new way to write about frugality, and it has people talking.  Bravo!

Some other blogger started a similar gimmick a few years ago.  He kept making up his own slightly-profane words to describe his cult-like philosophy.  I'll have to see if I can remember who it is.

[Thegoblinchief]

Me personally, I've never had lasting results when trying to change a habit using "cheat days".

The non-cheat days are something onerous I have to put up with to get my reward- in other words, it fails to change the underlying value judgment/mindset and thus is doomed to fail.

YMMV.

[arebelspy]

The thing that made me laugh is all of their implementation suggestions are 2:5.  I.e. being "good" two days a week is enough.

Implementing the 5:2 in your life

5:2 your finances: work out what you spend most days and cut your budget to 25 per cent of that two days a week.

5:2 your sleep: two days of the week ensure you go to bed at a reasonable time and leave any electronic devices out of the bedroom.

5:2 your mood: spend time two days a week writing down what you are grateful for.

5:2 your fitness: do some form of exercise two days a week, ensuring that it is something that you enjoy rather than endure.

5:2 your desk job: two days a week get off the train or bus one stop early and walk home.

5:2 your relationships: commit to catching up with your friends or spending one-on-one time with your partner two days a week.

You only need adequate sleep two days a week.  Being grateful twice is enough.  And yeah, talking to your partner two days a week is good enough.

Hah.  :D

[NeverWasACornflakeGirl]

IDK ... going "cold turkey" really doesn't work for me or my spouse.  We always end up rebounding.  I think easing into something is actually a pretty good idea.  Our big achilles heel is eating out.  So, when we make dinner or I bring my lunch to work, I sort of feel like Tom Hanks in Castaway when he proudly proclaims "I have made fire!!!" 

And then it becomes a positive feedback loop and I think, "well, I did it yesterday and it wasn't hard, so I'll try it again today."  And, since eating out is something that we really, really enjoy, it's nice to know that we have something to look forward to on those days when we "allow" ourselves to eat out. 

My spouse also has a self-identified tendency to "rebel" when she feels like there are restrictions, even if they're self-imposed, so trying to be "perfect" ("the 'p' word") never works for us.

And, even if someone is spending some money on the weekends, they still have the money from the week that they didn't spend.  It's not like it disappears just because the person isn't perfect. 

[arebelspy]

No one is saying be perfect. 

But this doesn't seem to advocate "easing into" anything.  Just a way to be mediocre.

My spouse also has a self-identified tendency to "rebel" when she feels like there are restrictions, even if they're self-imposed, so trying to be "perfect" ("the 'p' word") never works for us.

So this 5/2 thing (a restriction) seems like it wouldn't really work for that personality type.  There are definitely people like that, and there are definitely strategies better suited for people like that. This wouldn't be one of them, certainly.

And no, being perfect doesn't work for anyone.

And, even if someone is spending some money on the weekends, they still have the money from the week that they didn't spend.

And then they blow it all on the weekend.  I'm not seeing how not spending a few days a week and then splurging right after that means you'll save the money you didn't spend.  Seems more like the opposite, to me.

[dcheesi]

And, even if someone is spending some money on the weekends, they still have the money from the week that they didn't spend.

And then they blow it all on the weekend.  I'm not seeing how not spending a few days a week and then splurging right after that means you'll save the money you didn't spend.  Seems more like the opposite, to me.

You're assuming that they will spend more on the weekend because they were "good" all week. But that assumes that they had some sort of weekly budget mindset in place before starting this scheme. If they were already spending indiscriminately on the weekend, then changing their habits during the week is less likely to alter their weekend behavior.

[LalsConstant]

I love a quick rule of thumb meant to serve into some kind of optimization heuristic based on an arbitrary ratio or other figure as much as the next guy but this overexpanded and clumsy schema of metaphors is simply incoherent and smacks of branding over substance.

[NeverWasACornflakeGirl]

No one is saying be perfect. 

But this doesn't seem to advocate "easing into" anything.  Just a way to be mediocre.

My spouse also has a self-identified tendency to "rebel" when she feels like there are restrictions, even if they're self-imposed, so trying to be "perfect" ("the 'p' word") never works for us.

So this 5/2 thing (a restriction) seems like it wouldn't really work for that personality type.  There are definitely people like that, and there are definitely strategies better suited for people like that. This wouldn't be one of them, certainly.

And no, being perfect doesn't work for anyone.

And, even if someone is spending some money on the weekends, they still have the money from the week that they didn't spend.

And then they blow it all on the weekend.  I'm not seeing how not spending a few days a week and then splurging right after that means you'll save the money you didn't spend.  Seems more like the opposite, to me.

What do you think does really work?

[arebelspy]

And, even if someone is spending some money on the weekends, they still have the money from the week that they didn't spend.

And then they blow it all on the weekend.  I'm not seeing how not spending a few days a week and then splurging right after that means you'll save the money you didn't spend.  Seems more like the opposite, to me.

You're assuming that they will spend more on the weekend because they were "good" all week. But that assumes that they had some sort of weekly budget mindset in place before starting this scheme.

Heh.  I love your optimism.

What most people do is see how much money they have, and spend it.

It doesn't assume anything about a budget, or not.

If they were already spending indiscriminately on the weekend, then changing their habits during the week is less likely to alter their weekend behavior.

I agree.  Their weekend behavior won't alter, they'll still indiscriminately spend on the weekends, and they'll spend any amount they didn't happen to during the week.

People are terrible with money.  For the vast majority out there, if it's in their bank account, they spend it.

[arebelspy]

What do you think does really work?

It depends on the person.

I will say though that it's all about mindset.

Cute tricks work to a point, but that's what it all boils down to, mindset.

[dcheesi]

And, even if someone is spending some money on the weekends, they still have the money from the week that they didn't spend.

And then they blow it all on the weekend.  I'm not seeing how not spending a few days a week and then splurging right after that means you'll save the money you didn't spend.  Seems more like the opposite, to me.

You're assuming that they will spend more on the weekend because they were "good" all week. But that assumes that they had some sort of weekly budget mindset in place before starting this scheme.

Heh.  I love your optimism.

What most people do is see how much money they have, and spend it.

It doesn't assume anything about a budget, or not.

If they were already spending indiscriminately on the weekend, then changing their habits during the week is less likely to alter their weekend behavior.

I agree.  Their weekend behavior won't alter, they'll still indiscriminately spend on the weekends, and they'll spend any amount they didn't happen to during the week.

People are terrible with money.  For the vast majority out there, if it's in their bank account, they spend it.

Yeah, I guess for some people their bank balance (or "space" on their CC(!)) acts as a de facto "budget".

I'm just not used to thinking that way, since I've had money saved for so long. I never get anywhere close "touching bottom" on any of my accounts, so I have to use other ways of conceptualizing the impact of my expenses.

[NeverWasACornflakeGirl]

What do you think does really work?

It depends on the person.

I will say though that it's all about mindset.

Cute tricks work to a point, but that's what it all boils down to, mindset.

Just to play devil's advocate...

Isn't it possible that cute tricks could eventually get you to the right mindset?  Especially if you're trying to break or form new habits? 

I'm thinking of the book Switch: How to Change Things When Change Is Hard, which talks about "steering the elephant," and part of that is creating an environment where the elephant takes the path of least resistance:  http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/02/change-management-chip-dan-heath-leadership-managing-switch.html

[arebelspy]

Just to play devil's advocate...

Isn't it possible that cute tricks could eventually get you to the right mindset?  Especially if you're trying to break or form new habits? 

Yeah, sure, of course.  But mindset is still the bottom line.  Tricks can certainly help get you there though.  And what tricks work best depend on the person.

That's not devil's advocate.  :D   Devil's advocate would be that mindset doesn't matter at all, only cute tricks matter.  Be a lot harder to get me to agree to that.   ;)

[S0VERE1GN]

I used to be a big eater-outer (loved deli sandwiched, a good restaurant burrito etc)

This is really super-stupid, because i worked in food service for 10 years, so I can literally cook anything i buy from a store.

Once i internalized the above script of what a total and complete idiot i was for throwing away what probably amounted to thousands of dollars a year, I started spending "lavishly" on whatever food i would want from the grocery store instead. For some reason I would always be strangely frugal in the grocery store, and then eat out a bunch instead (what an idiot I am) essentially when i was in the grocery store i would spare no expense so I could scratch make whatever tasty treat I might like.  so far it has worked splendidly.

fun fact for the uninitiated: cooking is really easy. just follow the steps in a recipe and enjoy.

[Nords]

Perhaps the flawed logic comes from using "cheat days" as a reward.  The reward is the very behavior you're trying to change.

Maybe instead of "cheat days" there should be slightly less bad behavior every day, with slightly more good behavior.  Instead of being allowed to cheat, you'd be encouraged to set your own pace and not punish yourself for momentary backsliding.

But I'm still impressed by the blogger's ability to come up with a new description for changing habits.

What do you think does really work?

http://the-military-guide.com/2014/01/16/book-review-paperback-version-of-the-power-of-habit/

[MrsPete]

You're assuming that they will spend more on the weekend because they were "good" all week. But that assumes that they had some sort of weekly budget mindset in place before starting this scheme. If they were already spending indiscriminately on the weekend, then changing their habits during the week is less likely to alter their weekend behavior.
[/quote]Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking.  The concept works for certain things and not for others:

If I need gas in my car, but today is a "don't spend day", I'm still going to have to buy gas . . . so I'll just wait and buy it on Saturday.  No savings.

On the other hand, if I'm in the habit of picking up coffee every morning and going out to lunch every day with my co-workers . . . but instead I brown bag my lunch, then I will save. 

No one "savings trick" will work for everyone, and I can see that this would be useful for some people who are overspending in some ways.  But it isn't an ultimate "Wow, this is perfect!" method. 

[arebelspy]

The lunch is a good example of how this could work, but only if they saved it.

What I'm saying is not only will they shift buying that thing to the weekend, if they can't (like the brown bag lunch) they'll shift it to buying something else instead. They have the money, so they'll spend it anyways.

They need to couple it with something else. Perhaps a tracking system that records what they didn't spend and then they move that over into a separate account.

[MrsPete]

The lunch is a good example of how this could work, but only if they saved it.

What I'm saying is not only will they shift buying that thing to the weekend, if they can't (like the brown bag lunch) they'll shift it to buying something else instead. They have the money, so they'll spend it anyways.

They need to couple it with something else. Perhaps a tracking system that records what they didn't spend and then they move that over into a separate account.

Yeah, it'd depend upon the individual and his or her personal motivation.  If the problem were buying lunch out every work day (and I used that because I think it is a very typical money-waster), then not buying lunch would save money . . . and even if you do say, "I'll go out to lunch with my friends on Saturday because I've spent nothing on lunches all week", you can still only eat one lunch on Saturday -- you're allowing yourself to spend on lunch, but that's still four lunches you didn't buy.  If the problem were buying excessive clothing, then this trick would be less useful.   

I do see the point you're making, and it's the same reason why I hate the oft-mentioned (on other boards) "Put all your change in a jar at the end of the day and watch your savings grow!" concept.  If you JUST put your change into a jar, but you don't alter your spending habits, you're just going to end up going to the ATM more often . . . and the upshot is that you're just putting your money in a different place, not really saving. 

Money-saving tricks aren't necessarily a bad thing, especially for those who are new to saving and need some concrete "rules".  (I personally have a dozen or so little things I do that could be classified as "tricks", and I've been extraordinarily successful at saving.)  But you're right that you have to consider the big picture and not rely solely on the tricks. 

[S0VERE1GN]

Why not one meaningful move toward mustachianism per MONTH?

Pick one thing (ie no lunches out) for that month, stick to it, and mark it off on the calendar.

breaks it into chunks, makes it manageable, and the successes snowball. once you see how easy it is to save like this it would be a fast move toward more and more saving.