Author Topic: 2030 FIRE Cohort  (Read 200245 times)

MrOnyx

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #300 on: May 15, 2018, 09:51:39 AM »
Up to 1.28x expenses as of today. I increased my 401K to 8% this month and will increase again next month probably to 10% and see how that goes. Goal for the end of the year is to hit 2x expenses. I've got a ways to go but I think I can do it.

That's great! You're done then, right? You're independent! Any extra is a safety margin, which I guess is what you're going for. That or luxury, but I'll let you answer that (or not)! :D

Anecdotally, the case studies I've read (on MMM) say that your expenses drop after you retire. If that's the case, you're doubly done, right? I'm hoping someone more experienced might chime in in case I'm missing something.

Nope not done I need 25x expenses to be done. I got a looooonnnng way to go.


Right! I mistook what you meant. I thought you meant you had 1.28x expenses coming in as passive income from your investments. I'm with you now!

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #301 on: May 15, 2018, 10:25:46 AM »
Up to 1.28x expenses as of today. I increased my 401K to 8% this month and will increase again next month probably to 10% and see how that goes. Goal for the end of the year is to hit 2x expenses. I've got a ways to go but I think I can do it.

That's great! You're done then, right? You're independent! Any extra is a safety margin, which I guess is what you're going for. That or luxury, but I'll let you answer that (or not)! :D

Anecdotally, the case studies I've read (on MMM) say that your expenses drop after you retire. If that's the case, you're doubly done, right? I'm hoping someone more experienced might chime in in case I'm missing something.

Nope not done I need 25x expenses to be done. I got a looooonnnng way to go.


Right! I mistook what you meant. I thought you meant you had 1.28x expenses coming in as passive income from your investments. I'm with you now!

I wish! If that were the case I would be jumping into the 2018 FIRE Cohort. :)

Anatidae V

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #302 on: May 16, 2018, 06:27:20 AM »
We passed 1/4 of a million in net worth! I like how it sounds of I compare our net worth to 1 million instead of just "$250k". Of course, we've bought a house ($630k) so a lot of our with is tied up now, but it's pretty damn exciting regardless!

WooHoo, congrats!!!

QTR mill does have a nice ring to it :)  It's kind of like after you hit $100K that seems like the next exciting milestone, not that you don't have to go through $150 and $200 to get there but it sort of seems like $250 is the next big one.

Chuckled and thought of this thread when I logged onto Mint this morning. Hit $125K almost exactly so I'm at an eighth of a million, lol :) Half way to the next big milestone.
Woohoo and high five for an eighth of a million! ;)

Steeze

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #303 on: June 03, 2018, 03:04:54 PM »
DW and I have marked 2030 as the goal.

We are 30 and just getting started on the journey. Comfortably at a 55% savings rate. Hope to grow that as we move along, but who knows what the future will bring.

Stretch goal 2028, late goal is 2033. Puts me at 40-45yo.

Best of luck to all!

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #304 on: June 04, 2018, 10:23:17 AM »
Welcome Steeze, my stretch goal is also 2028.

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #305 on: June 07, 2018, 08:40:10 AM »
X= Yearly Expenses
2017 - Stache at 1x   $25,000 - Ending Balance $29,448.59
2018 - Stache at 2x   $50,000 - current balance $32,441.66 = 1.30x expenses
2019 - Stache at 3x   
2020 - Stache at 4.5x   
2021 - Stache at 6x   
2022 - Stache at 8x   
2023 - Stache at 10x   
2024 - Stache at 12x   
2025 - Stache at 14x   
2026 - Stache at 16x   
2027 - Stache at 18x   
2028 - Stache at 20x   
2029 - Stache at 22x   
2030 - Retire by end of year with 25x yearly expense rate

I got $17,558.34 left to save this year to reach my goal. I increased my 401K to 10% this month. I may need to make a bigger leap than just 2% a month. Maybe I'll up it to 15% in July. Then once I get to the max for 2018 I'll throw some money into my Fidelity IRA. So far this year I've contributed $2,839.68 so I have $15,660.32 left to contribute. So about $2K will go into my Fidelity IRA account.

I also need to work on lower my yearly expense amount, I'm tracking over my goal of $25K. I'll need to participate in a few Frugal Month Gauntlets.

The nice thing about being in the 2030 Cohort is I have time to make adjustments. ;)



2,874 work days left! I can practically taste the freedom!

Haku

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #306 on: June 17, 2018, 07:46:06 AM »
Hey all,

I've been lurking around here for a bit and finally decided to throw my name in and try to track my progress and keep myself accountable to being FIRE by 2030.  Although I am truly hoping to be FIRE by 2028 the wife is not as on board as I am and thinks that may be too early, but we will see how things change when we are closer.  Wife and I have always been fairly frugal, she more than I, but we never really thought about long term plans and planning for the future.  She is still fairly skeptical of being FIRE within 10-15 years, but she tends to be fairly pessimistic.  Our (read my) biggest challenge currently is getting my wife to fully buy in to the idea and strategy to become FIRE, she is reluctant to increase her 401k contributions, and with the extra money we have leftover every month she just wants to put in a money market account earning .75% interest.  She has a hard time accepting risk when it comes to money and is very reluctant to invest in the stock market (this is partially my fault for losing a good chunk of money by making some dumb decisions).  I just recently got her to agree to putting money in CDs instead of the MM so we can at least earn a little more interest. Going forward I am hoping to at least split our savings outside of 401ks between our brokerage account and CDs.

Current financial position:
Monthly Income - $10,000 ($6,200 take home pay)
Monthly Expenses - $3,500 ($1,500 in monthly bills - Mortgage, electric/gas, water, insurance, internet)

401k - $90,000 - Currently contributing about $2,100 per month combined
Roth IRA - $21,000 - Currently contributing $150 a month
Brokerage - $9,000

Home Value - $250,000
Mortgage - $150,000

Car Value - $35,000 - Both are paid off, we used the money in our MM/CD accounts to pay these off
     

I know a lot of people around here will look at our vehicles and think we spent too much on them.  Both my wife and I both had to replace our vehicles in the past year from ones we had been driving for 10+ years and feel like we got great value out of purchasing those vehicles (both were ~1-2 years used with around 30-40k miles on them at the time of purchase) so we decided to do the same this time around instead of buying older/cheaper cars.  We also wanted a dependable bigger vehicle with AWD as we hike/camp/climb in places that require a AWD vehicle to get to.
We could also work towards lowering our monthly expenses.  I have been tracking our income/expenses for the past year and a half while trying to work out a budget that we can stick to.  We currently pay about $1,500 in bills monthly between mortgage, electric/gas, water, insurance and internet (this likely won't change anytime soon)  and our budget for other expenses is currently $2,000 which we have been sticking to fairly well so far and have been within $100 every month this year.

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #307 on: June 18, 2018, 01:00:55 PM »
Welcome Haku, there seems to be a few of us that have a stretch goal of 2028, myself included.

As a little update I now have 1.32x my yearly expenses saved. My goal for the end of the year is 2X yearly expenses.

In order to keep my eye on the prize I've started thinking about my plans for when I do FIRE. One thing I've been wanting to do is travel around the world for a year. I'm thinking I'll start a separate journal to tracking the planning process and eventually to document the whole trip.

Any body else have big plans for after FIRE?


2,867 work days left

letsdoit

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #308 on: June 18, 2018, 01:05:17 PM »
is anyone thinking of taking a sabbatical before FIRE is reached and returning to work after the 2 year (or however long ) trip ?

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #309 on: June 18, 2018, 01:52:25 PM »
I thought about doing this before I released I could potentially retire years before I turned 65. Currently my plan is to keep working until I get to 2030 then retire for good. Though the idea of a sabbatical year sounds nice. 

letsdoit

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #310 on: June 18, 2018, 02:06:07 PM »
doing it the way you mentioned would be so much more efficient.  but families have certain windows at certain ages. 

Steeze

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #311 on: June 18, 2018, 09:33:27 PM »
For us, once we have FI our big plan is to live in China for several months a year near DW's parents. If we have children, probably will be limited to summer vacations while they are school age.

Otherwise we will like to work for ourselves part time. Plan right now is to slowly purchase a few multifamily properties over the next 10-12 years and manage them ourselves to stay busy after we are done working W2 jobs. See how that goes and will simply look for a balance between business and happiness. Mostly looking to slow things down and maximize our flexibility and ability to spend time with our families.

Not sure I ever want to stop working, but would like to get to where I am working around 10-15 hrs a week and can do my job remotely if needed.


haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #312 on: June 19, 2018, 07:10:40 AM »
My plan is to also purchase a couple vacation homes to rent out. I don't think I want to get into renting to full time tenants but more of an AirBNB/Homeaway kind of thing. Our first one I think will be near the white mountains in NH. Something we can use and rent out all year long, near a ski resort, hiking, lakes/beaches, etc.

rebel_quietude

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #313 on: June 19, 2018, 08:29:46 AM »
Good morning, everyone!

It struck me as I'm drinking coffee on a day off that we've got seven pages of this thread thus far, and no roll-up of who's in our cohort. I've been lurking on the 2018 & 2017 page for inspiration, and it's fun to see them tracking people's dates / who goes for one more year (OMY) or one less year (OLY) . Anyone want to lay odds on the percentage of people who remain consistent from now to 2030?

Please feel free to edit if I missed someone, and give me a shout if for some reason you don't want to be on here.

Ladies and gentlemen, in order of RE date and thread appearance, class of 2030!

Pre 2030-ish

Fastfwd - ~2025 to 2030
DebtFreeinPhilly - ~2025-2030
Finances_With_Purpose - ~2025 to 2030
Cornel_Westside - 2027
TheMoneyWizard - ~2027 to 2030
Livethedream - ~2028 to 2030
mizzourah2006 - ~2028 to 2030
DeskJockey2028 - ~2028 to 2032
seathink - 2028
kittenstache - ~2028-2030
khangaroo - 2029
MoonLiteNight - 2029


 2030-ish

FrenchStache
rufflina
VTD0918
Lanthiriel
erae
HappierAtHome
Frs1661
Distshore
k_to_the_v
Nate R
Guava
scipsy
[a]bort
Samsam
Alf91
fuzzy math
Aelias
The Viking
swick
Anatidae V
LazyBones
LWTG
JimboJones31
BrokenBiscuits
MrsGoldenPiggy
FiguringItOut
RidentheAsama
Btag84
FireHiker
thedigitalalone
runewell
startingsmall
Mezzie
skip207
headwinds
Bumbles8
VCaddy
Mustashio Bashio
teamzissou00
daymare
SustainableStache
dreadmoose
haypug16
Bobberth
Shooter_D
Pinkman
Road2Freedom
sea
Snow
twistedfirestarter
Engineer93
wbarnett
change_seeker
Steeze
Haku
MrOynx
NorthernDreamer
latterdayrasta

Post 2030-ish
CheapScholar - ~2030 to 2031
moonpalace - ~2030 to 2032
jfisher3 - ~2030 to 2033
meerkat - ~2030 to 2033
Erma - ~ 2030 to 2033
BeautifulDay - ~2030-2033
KisKis - 2031
aceyou - 2031
Semiretired31 - 2031
rebel_quietude - 2031
10dollarsatatime - 2031
jtray - 2032
VanteBoll - 2032
Lucky Ricardito - 2032
Sascatchewstachian - ~2031-2033
TightFistedScot - ~2030 to 2035

*edited as folks post corrections / additions!
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 05:48:14 PM by rebel_quietude »

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #314 on: June 19, 2018, 09:07:57 AM »
Thanks @rebel_quietude for making the list. I was just thinking yesterday that our Cohort needs a Roll-call. I also stalk the earlier Cohorts (mostly 2018) to see all the people reaching FIRE.

MrOnyx

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #315 on: June 20, 2018, 03:54:26 AM »
Not to be 'that guy', @rebel_quietude, but I don't appear to be on the list. I know I haven't provided any projections or predictions, but I am aiming for 2030 to be my FI year.

It's not important, of course, but I thought I'd mention it!

mizzourah2006

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #316 on: June 20, 2018, 07:29:55 AM »
I'm less about the FIRE and more about the FI, but I think 2028-2030 is when we could pull the plug.

Right now we are at a stache of a little over 7x yearly expenses, but 1/3rd of those yearly expenses are daycare for the two little ones :)

rebel_quietude

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #317 on: June 20, 2018, 08:18:32 AM »
Didn't mean to leave you out, Mr. Oynx and missourah2006!

List edited. Let me know if there's anyone else I missed! I figure it'll probably be worth a yearly scrub as more folks join this thread and refine their timelines.

NorthernDreamer

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #318 on: June 20, 2018, 09:57:45 AM »
Thanks for making this @rebel_quietude! Might as well move to me to official 2030 group, though hopes are to pull the plug before then ;)

Haku

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #319 on: June 20, 2018, 03:11:34 PM »
Welcome Haku, there seems to be a few of us that have a stretch goal of 2028, myself included.

As a little update I now have 1.32x my yearly expenses saved. My goal for the end of the year is 2X yearly expenses.

In order to keep my eye on the prize I've started thinking about my plans for when I do FIRE. One thing I've been wanting to do is travel around the world for a year. I'm thinking I'll start a separate journal to tracking the planning process and eventually to document the whole trip.

Any body else have big plans for after FIRE?


I've got so many big plans for post FIRE, only question is if I can get the wife on board with them.  Our only definite plans right now are that we are planning on moving out into the country where we can get a decent sized chunk of land where we can build a small little farm.  We would also like to do some traveling as well, but so far we haven't decided much on when or where all we want to go, some of that will depend on what traveling we do pre-FIRE.

is anyone thinking of taking a sabbatical before FIRE is reached and returning to work after the 2 year (or however long ) trip ?


My wife and I have discussed taking a sabbatical at some point.  I am kind of doubtful that it will actually happen for us, there is just too much uncertainty and risk involved, and as I have mentioned before my wife is not one for risk.  I have always wanted to do a year long (or longer) road trip around the US though.

latterdayrasta

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #320 on: June 20, 2018, 03:54:02 PM »
I'll throw my hat into the ring for FIRE by my 50th birthday in June of 2030. I discovered mustachianism about two months ago, and I've made a few changes already to save more.

Current net worth is about $1.1 million, mostly in invested assets. I have two kids, 10 and 8, and I'd love to do some traveling with them while they're young, which will add some time.

DW is tolerating my mustachian enthusiasm, but she's a bit dubious, so I have set a high goal of $2.5 million to allow a lavish lifestyle, even though I don't know how we would spend $100k per year in retirement. Based on my calculations this should be doable by 2030.

Another consideration for me is that my 10 year old son has autism, and I want to leave a large 'stashe for him so that he will always be provided for.

Good luck to everyone! Glad to be here!

Haku

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #321 on: June 20, 2018, 06:55:11 PM »
I'll throw my hat into the ring for FIRE by my 50th birthday in June of 2030. I discovered mustachianism about two months ago, and I've made a few changes already to save more.

Current net worth is about $1.1 million, mostly in invested assets. I have two kids, 10 and 8, and I'd love to do some traveling with them while they're young, which will add some time.

DW is tolerating my mustachian enthusiasm, but she's a bit dubious, so I have set a high goal of $2.5 million to allow a lavish lifestyle, even though I don't know how we would spend $100k per year in retirement. Based on my calculations this should be doable by 2030.

Another consideration for me is that my 10 year old son has autism, and I want to leave a large 'stashe for him so that he will always be provided for.

Good luck to everyone! Glad to be here!

Welcome!  Sounds like you are well on your way to achieving your goal, although from personal experience it can seem like the hardest goal to achieve is getting the DW fully on board as well.

I think your plan of traveling with your children is a great idea, some of my best childhood memories were traveling with my dad when I was around the age of your children.  It was awesome going to new places and seeing amazing things, but thinking back on it now I am thankful for the time I got to spend with my dad.

Do you have plans for when you reach FIRE?  It will put you RE right as your children will be reaching adulthood and it will probably be a huge shock to go from being a working parent to a retired empty nester.

latterdayrasta

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #322 on: June 20, 2018, 07:50:43 PM »
I'll throw my hat into the ring for FIRE by my 50th birthday in June of 2030. I discovered mustachianism about two months ago, and I've made a few changes already to save more.

Current net worth is about $1.1 million, mostly in invested assets. I have two kids, 10 and 8, and I'd love to do some traveling with them while they're young, which will add some time.

DW is tolerating my mustachian enthusiasm, but she's a bit dubious, so I have set a high goal of $2.5 million to allow a lavish lifestyle, even though I don't know how we would spend $100k per year in retirement. Based on my calculations this should be doable by 2030.

Another consideration for me is that my 10 year old son has autism, and I want to leave a large 'stashe for him so that he will always be provided for.

Good luck to everyone! Glad to be here!

Welcome!  Sounds like you are well on your way to achieving your goal, although from personal experience it can seem like the hardest goal to achieve is getting the DW fully on board as well.

I think your plan of traveling with your children is a great idea, some of my best childhood memories were traveling with my dad when I was around the age of your children.  It was awesome going to new places and seeing amazing things, but thinking back on it now I am thankful for the time I got to spend with my dad.

Do you have plans for when you reach FIRE?  It will put you RE right as your children will be reaching adulthood and it will probably be a huge shock to go from being a working parent to a retired empty nester.

Thanks for the welcome! I'm excited to be a part of this community.

To answer your question, I haven't given post FIRE life too much thought. It will definitely involve a good amount of travel. I have always had a dream of living on a Caribbean island, so I want to give that a try. I've always been a curious person, so I plan to study several subjects on my own using the internet and the library (physics, history, etc.). I don't think I have ever used the words "I'm bored" in my life, so I can't wait to dig into anything that piques my curiosity! My kids will also be on their own, so I might follow them around like a lost puppy and annoy them while they are finding their way in the world. The possibilities are endless!

Livethedream

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #323 on: June 21, 2018, 09:23:58 AM »
Made a big step towards our 2030 FIRE goal this month, paid off our house. This will free up $1300 a month, plus about another $50k a year we have been putting towards the house! Some will be used for vacations and vehicle replacement fund, but most will start going towards retirement.

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #324 on: June 21, 2018, 09:46:48 AM »
Congrats on paying off the house @Livethedream!!! Excellent step towards FIRE.

2bfree

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #325 on: July 16, 2018, 02:42:52 PM »
Peeking my head in here. I will be in 48 in 2030 and hope to be retired by (hopefully before then).

Eventuality

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #326 on: July 16, 2018, 11:35:46 PM »
I'm peeking in as well. Currently 29, tentatively day-dreaming of a "FIRE" - transitioning to part-time work as an RN (2 12-hour shifts/week) in 2030 at age 41. The boyfriend is currently horrified by this concept and thinks I'll go broke if I try that. Hoping he'll come around with time. Also thinking marriage and 1 child in the next few years, which might change things. Family is all local and likes kids=less daycare $$.

Improvements: I've increased my Roth 403b contribution since May from 10% to 17% (+a 3% company match, which really brings it to 20%). I bought a house this year so am a little low on the cash currently. Annual expenses run about $25k (including mortgage and a horse). A part time RN salary would be enough to cover these expenses (assuming salary increases comparably to inflation).

Total net worth right now is $73k, counting equity in the house. I'd like about 10X that in my stash (including the house) before I'd be comfortable with dropping to part-time work.

mizzourah2006

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #327 on: July 17, 2018, 06:53:02 PM »
Nice job on the list @rebel_quietude

This far out, who knows where we will all end up.  A lot can change over that timeframe. 

I could see our own plan and timeline improving dramatically, or slowing down some.  At this point, it's hard to know which direction things will move, let alone how much. 

I'm guessing the group will do better than expected, but then again, the biggest factor is market returns, and I'm not terribly optimstic about that over the next decade...I guess we'll see.   


yup, I estimate an after-inflation CAGR of 4% for all my projections and even that may be a bit optimistic.

MoneyMouse

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #328 on: July 23, 2018, 03:53:39 PM »
I think I should be able to fit this. Technically, my plan aims for 2031, but I also assume a lot of things go wrong on the way there. This also assumes I stay single, which I'm open to, but getting a Mustachian partner would likely accelerate this plan.

However, a big if in this is getting myself into a higher paying job.

I'm currently, I believe, under-employed as an Administrator. I take home about $33,900 after tax annually.
I'm currently applying for as many higher-classified positions within my organization as I can, and I may be able to earn $48,700 after tax by the time I'm 40 (possibly higher if I keep looking for promotions, but I'm being super-conservative).

This also doesn't take into account finding or establishing side gigs or house hacking that I anticipate doing in the future.

What's kind of amazing is that, the more I think about it, I don't think I'd actually retire. I'm more about getting to FI by 40 or sooner, but at that point I would probably look to work part-time doing something fun like work the front desk at a gym or work at a board game cafe. Focus more on creating income streams through house hacking, my own businesses and small side gigs. I would want to continue working until the mortgage of my principal residence is paid off, just as my own preference.

On one hand, I feel like I'm starting "too late" at 27 years old, but I also realize that I only have 13 years left if I play my cards right and buckle down. Would it have been better if I had started earlier? Yeah, sure, but I also graduated University with no debt and bought my first car with cash. Compared to many of my peers, I'm doing quite well.

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #329 on: July 31, 2018, 11:16:34 AM »
X= Yearly Expenses
2017 - Stache at 1x   $25,000 - Ending Balance $29,448.59
2018 - Stache at 2x   $50,000 - current balance $34,340.04 = 1.37x expenses
2019 - Stache at 3x   
2020 - Stache at 4.5x   
2021 - Stache at 6x   
2022 - Stache at 8x   
2023 - Stache at 10x   
2024 - Stache at 12x   
2025 - Stache at 14x   
2026 - Stache at 16x   
2027 - Stache at 18x   
2028 - Stache at 20x   
2029 - Stache at 22x   
2030 - Retire by end of year with 25x yearly expense rate

Had a nice little jump since my last update, but still behind on my goal. Starting in August my 401K contribution goes up to 15%. With my new raise I will max out at 23% ($18,500) I will increase up to 23% contribution by the end of this year. At that point I will probably switch to a dollar amount contribution so I don't go over.



2,847 working days left!

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #330 on: August 01, 2018, 10:46:16 AM »

I read back through the thread to see when you first posted this tracking method. Was there a formula or math behind it or did you just make some guesses?

Curious if it can really  go up by 2 years expenses each year like that, seems like it could with compounding? Also may try and make my own roughly based on 20X (5% WR) and just curious how you determined it.



So I actually copied this from another person on the forums (I can't remember who) and then adjusted it to match my personal predictions. It's my first year using it so we'll see how it goes. In the earlier years I am just going up 1-1.5X then 2x then lastly 3X. This is assuming I a. make more to be able to save more and b. my little employees that I invest are working really hard to make my dollars multiply faster.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 02:42:22 PM by haypug16 »

x02947

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #331 on: August 01, 2018, 02:24:42 PM »
Oh sure, I’ll toss my hat in the forum- why not?  I like the idea of being part of a team to help each other out for the long haul :)

I found MMM about 6 months ago and found that the FIRE concept aligned nicely with my already frugal-ish nature but more importantly, it let me realize that it’s okay to find and do things you like.  You don’t get a grade at the end of your life based on how “important” of a job you managed to get.  Instead, you can begin arranging your life to do the things you want (doing un-wanted things as necessary to support the wanted things), and retirement will be just another transition into being able do more things that you want, more often. 

By my rough excel calculations, I’ll be able to FIRE by around 2031, but that all depends on how a couple of big things play out- do I drop to a 30 hour work week once kids hit school age to spend more time with them?  How soon can I convince DW that it’s okay to not let a financial advisor steal our money with 1.5% fees?

@MoneyMouse-  Don’t worry about feeling “late to the game”.  I have the same feeling- I’m 30, married with two kids and could have been in a much better (although it's not by any means bad now!) situation if I had actually known what I was doing earlier on.  I think we all suffer from “man, if only I had done that!”.  But regardless you and I are shaving about 50% off of a standard working career.  It’s kinda like winning the super bowl by three touchdowns instead of four :).

BobMueller

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #332 on: August 01, 2018, 11:47:47 PM »
"millenial" here who chose a well-compensated technical path (albeit after a failed attempt at law school). i plan on living at home during my funded PhD at a top 20 university. my goals are ambitious, but reasonable.

my car is a manual mid 2000s corolla, i don't have any debt really besides a small student loan I intend to pay off soon, and i have family supporting me, possibly substantially for a downpayment, etc. i'm extremely lucky to go to grad school when federal funding for research is up significantly, and in a top department. either academic or industry; it's a hot field and will continue to be for decades (AI, programming).

my goal is to save over 100k by 30 and 500k by 35, 1 million by 40 (this will be 2030).

an aside, life isn't all about money, how do I date whilst living at home doing a PhD?

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #333 on: August 02, 2018, 07:45:48 AM »

I read back through the thread to see when you first posted this tracking method. Was there a formula or math behind it or did you just make some guesses?

Curious if it can really  go up by 2 years expenses each year like that, seems like it could with compounding? Also may try and make my own roughly based on 20X (5% WR) and just curious how you determined it.

So I actually copied this from another person on the forums (I can't remember who) and then adjusted it to match my personal predictions. It's my first year using it so we'll see how it goes. In the earlier years I am just going up 1-1.5X then 2x then lastly 3X. This is assuming I a. make more to be able to save more and b. my little employees that I invest are working really hard to make my dollars multiply faster.

Gotcha. I'll have to fiddle around with my own and look at some projections I made. Seems like a daunting task to get it up even 1-1.5 here in the early stages. But I know it will pick up eventually when it grows enough to compound more on it's own.

Right! 1x a year may be a little too ambitions but I hope to get as close to 2x by the end of 2018 as possible. Every month the number goes up so that makes me happy.

MoneyMouse

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #334 on: August 02, 2018, 09:47:02 AM »
By my rough excel calculations, I’ll be able to FIRE by around 2031, but that all depends on how a couple of big things play out- do I drop to a 30 hour work week once kids hit school age to spend more time with them?  How soon can I convince DW that it’s okay to not let a financial advisor steal our money with 1.5% fees?

I'm a sucker for straight numbers, personally.
Would that work on her? Even just a straight comparison of the fees on a $10,000 investment? $150 for 15% or $70 for 7%?

Or maybe get her reading about ETFs and how it's actually not as complicated managing those yourself as most might think?

@MoneyMouse-  Don’t worry about feeling “late to the game”.  I have the same feeling- I’m 30, married with two kids and could have been in a much better (although it's not by any means bad now!) situation if I had actually known what I was doing earlier on.  I think we all suffer from “man, if only I had done that!”.  But regardless you and I are shaving about 50% off of a standard working career.  It’s kinda like winning the super bowl by three touchdowns instead of four :).

Ha ha, that's a good point. Thank you for that perspective!


I've actually been thinking about a few things, as my love for my job has all but fizzled and crashed. (Horray huge-ass corporate change that no one wants and is only there to advance the career of the bigwigs pushing it, but will in fact horribly damage everything.)

I'll go into more detail about my thoughts in my journal, but I wanted to sort of brain-dump here and see if you all had some ideas.

I dislike my current job and work. I think HR was the wrong field, and I hate administrative work. I enjoy strategic thinking, communication, collaboration and relationship building. To me, this sounds like Business Analyst work and I am going to save up and go to school PT in September to get a BA Certificate and try to make the leap into that sort of work.

I am also considering arranging for 0.8 FTE (80% full time or 30 hours a week) if I can at my current work while I do that, and use the extra time to focus on studies and also take some part-time hustles like dog walking. I have spoken with my psychologist and she thinks maybe I'm just not "cut out" for full-time work. Which I totally agree with - it's another big reason why I wanna FIRE. Maybe doing this, I can cover my basic expenses with my job and then use all my additional jobs as savings money. Then, when I complete my certificate, maybe I can return to full time work as a Business Analyst and I'll be happier.

My biggest concern right now is that I'm just not happy and it's wearing on my mental and physical health.
I want to FI like crazy, but my job right now and my career choice is not at all lucrative. I'm trying to wrap my head and heart around the idea of pursuing happiness now and get reeducation into a better (both money- and satisfaction-wise) field to eventually get into FT work again.

Alright... word vomit over. Gonna put more details in that journal post but for now, there it is.

What do you guys think, Team 2030?

Steeze

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #335 on: August 02, 2018, 11:59:23 AM »
For the 1.5% fees, I usually do something like this:

Assume in a self directed account you achieve a long term average of 7%/yr gains over 30 yrs. Assume a financial advisor can do the same, but charges a 1.5%/yr fee.

$10,000 × (1.07^30) = $76122
$10,000 × (1.055^30) = $49839
That is a difference of $26,282 or 34%

Is having an advisor worth 1/3 of your wealth?

MoneyMouse

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #336 on: August 02, 2018, 01:28:04 PM »
For the 1.5% fees, I usually do something like this:

Assume in a self directed account you achieve a long term average of 7%/yr gains over 30 yrs. Assume a financial advisor can do the same, but charges a 1.5%/yr fee.

$10,000 × (1.07^30) = $76122
$10,000 × (1.055^30) = $49839
That is a difference of $26,282 or 34%

Is having an advisor worth 1/3 of your wealth?

Brilliant calculation!

Also... holy heck... I should transfer my stuff into Questrade and Vanguard, like, post-haste.

MoneyMouse

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #337 on: August 03, 2018, 01:50:46 PM »
I'll give the same recommendation I give to everyone struggling with career direction/finding traction in the workforce, which is this book.  It's a set of career-coaching lessons in one book, and even includes finances.  (And for the price of checking it out at the library...)

It's worth the time investment before you go putting time + money investments into other things, as it can help you set not just a direction in general, but a direction within your field. 

I'm also a big fan of high-quality aptitude testing to see what type of work/tasks you would succeed at, although that's substantially more expensive.

At the very least, you will walk away from those things knowing far more about yourself and in a better position to make the big-picture changes you need to make with confidence.

Thank you!
I'll have to check that out from the library next week.

Hm, I'm not sure where to find aptitude tests, but I'll get in touch with a career coach who used to work in our office. Maybe she knows where I can find one.
I wouldn't mind learning more about what jobs would be a natural fit - I want that. I enjoy times when I feel competent and know I have skill sets that build that.
Unfortunately, right now, I'm most competent herding cats (read: other online players) in a game like Guild Wars 2, ha ha!

This is true about learning more about myself. I have changed significantly in the last 3 years, which is a good thing, I think.
I take it as a sign that I'm living life and creating my own future.

This TED talk is also informative.

Thank you!
I'll have to look into that tonight.

mizzourah2006

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #338 on: August 03, 2018, 07:00:14 PM »
I'll give the same recommendation I give to everyone struggling with career direction/finding traction in the workforce, which is this book.  It's a set of career-coaching lessons in one book, and even includes finances.  (And for the price of checking it out at the library...)

It's worth the time investment before you go putting time + money investments into other things, as it can help you set not just a direction in general, but a direction within your field. 

I'm also a big fan of high-quality aptitude testing to see what type of work/tasks you would succeed at, although that's substantially more expensive.

At the very least, you will walk away from those things knowing far more about yourself and in a better position to make the big-picture changes you need to make with confidence.

Thank you!
I'll have to check that out from the library next week.

Hm, I'm not sure where to find aptitude tests, but I'll get in touch with a career coach who used to work in our office. Maybe she knows where I can find one.
I wouldn't mind learning more about what jobs would be a natural fit - I want that. I enjoy times when I feel competent and know I have skill sets that build that.
Unfortunately, right now, I'm most competent herding cats (read: other online players) in a game like Guild Wars 2, ha ha!

This is true about learning more about myself. I have changed significantly in the last 3 years, which is a good thing, I think.
I take it as a sign that I'm living life and creating my own future.

This TED talk is also informative.

Thank you!
I'll have to look into that tonight.

For that type of stuff Onet is a good resource. Here is a 60 question interest profiler from the cite. Can’t speak to its outcomes as I’ve never taken it before but as An I/O Psychologist Onet’s research and resources are usually top notch. https://www.onetcenter.org/IP.html?p=2

x02947

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #339 on: August 04, 2018, 11:10:39 AM »
Moneymouse and Steeze-  thank you muchly!  I have not done the drawn out over 30 years example and will definitely use that.  It's not like DW is particularly against us doing our own finances- it's more like retirement is "A Big Deal" so the "Experts Know Best" type of thing.  She is indeed coming around, so I'm not terribly worried about it and don't want to push it too hard. 

Moneymouse- elsewhere I read on the forum "do you want to FIRE because you hate your job, or do you hate your job because you want to FIRE?"  I think once you are able to find a schedule and field that works for you, you'll definitely see a big ol' happiness and satisfaction increase. 

I second all the advice about aptitude tests and the like, and would like to add that before making too much of a non-reversable jump try to talk to someone (several someones preferably) already in the field first.  See just how much "actual" work they do vs how much red tape and administrative stuff they deal with.  What does the promotion ladder look like?

cs2print

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #340 on: August 05, 2018, 10:26:31 PM »
Thanks for making this thread. 2030 the latest but trying for earlier!

chuckster

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #341 on: August 06, 2018, 12:23:12 PM »

2030 - Retire by end of year with 25x yearly expense rate



One thing to remember, if I myself am remembering correctly, is that the 25x  benchmark isn't "enough to retire on forever", it's only supposed to be "enough to retire on for 30 years with a reasonable likelihood of not running out of money". Just don't forget to factor in how long you think you might need that to last.

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #342 on: August 06, 2018, 07:34:19 PM »
25x should last forever theoretically as long as I stick to the 4% SWR. Also whatever I get from social security is not factored in so that's all bonus. 

x02947

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #343 on: August 07, 2018, 08:24:35 AM »
Chuckster- technically you are correct about the 25x expenses is for 30 years-that's what the initial trinity study was looking at.  However, it turns out that for the vast majority of cases after 30 years you end up with more than you started out with so you can keep on going.  Also, according to the studies, at no point in previous history has the 4% rule had someone run out of money within 30 years- so with 4% being 100% successful over 30 years, a smart mustachian should be able to recognize well ahead of time that things are going poorly so maybe I should drop my spending to 3.5%, or put some effort into a side hustle to make some income, which effectively means only withdrawing 3.5%.  And, as haypug pointed out, the 4% study assumed no additional income whatsoever (no SS, no inheritance, no lucky pennies on the side of the road).

What is a "safe" SWR?

.00000001% That should be safe enough.

According to the Trinity study that investigated safe withdrawal rates, 4% has become commonly mentioned in most financial circles.

The true answer is going to be whatever percentage you're comfortable with. This is one of those risk based questions. If you're conservative you will want to go for a smaller SWR, if you're not conservative or have a larger than necessary “stache” greater than 4% is possible.

Other forum topics on the standard withdrawal rate. And MMM's take.


Mezzie

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #344 on: August 07, 2018, 02:17:28 PM »
I'm on track to be FI in 2030, but will likely work until 2033 for both pension and healthcare reasons. Also, I love my job. :)

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #345 on: August 08, 2018, 08:14:00 AM »
Chuckster- technically you are correct about the 25x expenses is for 30 years-that's what the initial trinity study was looking at.  However, it turns out that for the vast majority of cases after 30 years you end up with more than you started out with so you can keep on going.  Also, according to the studies, at no point in previous history has the 4% rule had someone run out of money within 30 years- so with 4% being 100% successful over 30 years, a smart mustachian should be able to recognize well ahead of time that things are going poorly so maybe I should drop my spending to 3.5%, or put some effort into a side hustle to make some income, which effectively means only withdrawing 3.5%.  And, as haypug pointed out, the 4% study assumed no additional income whatsoever (no SS, no inheritance, no lucky pennies on the side of the road).

What is a "safe" SWR?

.00000001% That should be safe enough.

According to the Trinity study that investigated safe withdrawal rates, 4% has become commonly mentioned in most financial circles.

The true answer is going to be whatever percentage you're comfortable with. This is one of those risk based questions. If you're conservative you will want to go for a smaller SWR, if you're not conservative or have a larger than necessary “stache” greater than 4% is possible.

Other forum topics on the standard withdrawal rate. And MMM's take.


Exactly! and thanks for sharing the MMM post. My annual spending budget of $25K includes about $6.5k in variable spending. so if things are not looking good in the market I can for example postpone travel for a year and cut some other spending down and also look into some part-time work to make up the difference. I plan on being retired for well over 30 years :)

MoneyMouse

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #346 on: August 08, 2018, 10:05:19 AM »
Moneymouse and Steeze-  thank you muchly!  I have not done the drawn out over 30 years example and will definitely use that.  It's not like DW is particularly against us doing our own finances- it's more like retirement is "A Big Deal" so the "Experts Know Best" type of thing.  She is indeed coming around, so I'm not terribly worried about it and don't want to push it too hard. 

Moneymouse- elsewhere I read on the forum "do you want to FIRE because you hate your job, or do you hate your job because you want to FIRE?"  I think once you are able to find a schedule and field that works for you, you'll definitely see a big ol' happiness and satisfaction increase. 

I second all the advice about aptitude tests and the like, and would like to add that before making too much of a non-reversable jump try to talk to someone (several someones preferably) already in the field first.  See just how much "actual" work they do vs how much red tape and administrative stuff they deal with.  What does the promotion ladder look like?

One of the things I struggled with with my ex was that same issue. He would send me Wall Street Journal articles about couples in their 50s who were struggling to retire.
Problem with those was that the "expert" assumed the couple wanted to keep their $800k high-end home in a suburb, a lake lot with boat and 4x4 that they would spend summers in and share with friends and family, buy a new car every 5 years (why?!), and maintain their $3k/mth on eating out (which was separate from their groceries and liquor).

Of course you'd be struggling to retire if you live like that.

I actually had a phone interview yesterday that went quite well.
The position would essentially be a horizontal transfer for me - from entry-level HR (with low pay and no ladder in sight) to an entry-level BA (with equal to slightly higher pay and support to climb a ladder with clear rungs). From my talk with the HR lady, it seems like it actually would be a great fit. She asked a lot of questions - as did I - about what I enjoyed about the jobs I've done and why I think it would fit with the job there. She really didn't sugar coat anything, which I appreciate, and was especially clear with it being a support/entry position but with lots of room to grow upwards.

She even asked me if I was sure that I wouldn't prefer recruitment - and my answer was that I loved working with the clients and solving their problems, but I hated all the paperwork and actual hiring that happened with it.

I mentioned I would be going back to school in September and she was quick to explain that the company would support me in that.

Looking at a lot of BA blogs and information interviews, I think it would be right up my alley. I do want to ask the Senior BA when I meet them about what the paperwork and admin stuff looks like, and if I can expect to move upwards within 1-2 years.

AfricanMustache

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #347 on: August 09, 2018, 04:14:18 PM »
This is my very first post on the forum, having adopted the mustachian ways relatively recently. Having done the numbers we are planning for FIRE or at least FI by 2030 so I therefore happily join this cohort.

Our net worth is about $190k, the majority of which is in our retirement accounts, which will be accessible without penalty when we turn 55, which for me will be 2035 and for DW 2045. So we'll use our stash (with high WR) to tie us over between 2030 and 2035, at which point the retirement funds kick in. Our target spending post-FIRE will be around $35k.

So maybe an interesting scenario for the wise men and women of the MMM community with which I'd appreciate your help. It's a pay off the mortgage vs build stash scenario but since we live in South Africa the variables and considerations are somewhat different than you may be used to. My options are to pay off the mortgage in about 6 years ($230k outstanding) or start building our stash right away, which could then pay off the outstanding mortgage when we FIRE - we don't want mortgage repayments post-FIRE.

1. Mortgage interest rate is 9.2% (you read that right and that is considered low in these parts). It is a variable rate 20-year mortgage with about 20 years still currently remaining (new house).
2. Our local stock market (JSE) has been underperforming (trending sideways) in the last few years due to epic political mismanagement. Prior to that though it has been strong and even outperformed the first-world markets on most time scales. Still more political uncertainty lies ahead for the next few years though. Since our retirement funds may only be invested 25% offshore I already have my fill of local equities anyway and any stash building to be done will be through my U.S. investment account into S&P 500 and global equity index trackers.
3. The problem with 2 above is currency risk - buying dollar-denominated investments when I earn and spend SA Rands. Many a South African investor has in the past gotten negative on the country and moved as much as possible into hard currency, only for the rand to go on a bull run and wipe out any gains that may have otherwise been made. Currency moves almost become more relevant than market performance.
4. The government is currently pushing for constitutional amendments to allow for the expropriation of land without compensation (Venezuela and Zimbabwe-style?). There are differing opinions if and how expropriation may practically be done if at all, but suffice it to say I may not necessarily want to be putting all available excess funds into a mortgage over a property that may actually be legally taken from me by the government (rather let the bank carry the risk?).

I am fairly certain we can realistically achieve our 2030 FIRE goal but am not sure which way to go. Pay off the mortgage over the next 6 years then move to 70-75% SR for the last 5-6 years before FI or build the stash aggressively and worry about the mortgage later, given the country-specific points mentioned above.

x02947

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #348 on: August 10, 2018, 07:43:37 AM »
Welcome AfricanMustache! (Man, I’m only 4 posts old and already welcoming people, lol).  I’m sorry, I really don’t have any advice regarding your mortgage/stash scenario.  That’s way beyond my level of expertise.  Maybe try posting this in the larger forum, possibly the Ask a Mustachian subforum.  That way you would get exposure to some users with more MMM experience than us- possibly even another South African Mustachian! Either way though, I wish you the best of luck and please keep us posted!

One of the things I struggled with with my ex was that same issue. He would send me Wall Street Journal articles about couples in their 50s who were struggling to retire.
Problem with those was that the "expert" assumed the couple wanted to keep their $800k high-end home in a suburb, a lake lot with boat and 4x4 that they would spend summers in and share with friends and family, buy a new car every 5 years (why?!), and maintain their $3k/mth on eating out (which was separate from their groceries and liquor).

Of course you'd be struggling to retire if you live like that.

Even before I found MMM everyone kept telling me “you need 80% of your income in retirement!” and I was always confused because if I happily lived on less of that on a near-entry level salary, why would I need 2x or 3x my current expenses in retirement?

I actually had a phone interview yesterday that went quite well.
The position would essentially be a horizontal transfer for me - from entry-level HR (with low pay and no ladder in sight) to an entry-level BA (with equal to slightly higher pay and support to climb a ladder with clear rungs). From my talk with the HR lady, it seems like it actually would be a great fit. She asked a lot of questions - as did I - about what I enjoyed about the jobs I've done and why I think it would fit with the job there. She really didn't sugar coat anything, which I appreciate, and was especially clear with it being a support/entry position but with lots of room to grow upwards.

She even asked me if I was sure that I wouldn't prefer recruitment - and my answer was that I loved working with the clients and solving their problems, but I hated all the paperwork and actual hiring that happened with it.

I mentioned I would be going back to school in September and she was quick to explain that the company would support me in that.

Looking at a lot of BA blogs and information interviews, I think it would be right up my alley. I do want to ask the Senior BA when I meet them about what the paperwork and admin stuff looks like, and if I can expect to move upwards within 1-2 years.

I am reminded of a saying- “Make the plan, work the plan.  Hope is not a valid course of action”.  Sounds like you are making a level-headed rational decision, doing your research, and keeping your eyes open.  Things will get a bit hairy at time working full time and taking classes (personal experience here), but knowing what you want and will get out of it will go a long way towards keeping your sanity.

WGH

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #349 on: August 10, 2018, 01:47:17 PM »
Hello folks I will throw in my name for the 2030 crowd though it will be July 2031 when I will be eligible to retire with pension. Divorce unfortunately wiped out a chunk of my stache through the QDRO but it has readjusted my line of thinking from retiring at 55 with multi millions to 51 with close to a million and the pension.

Budgeting while married was a nightmare as the SO was a spendthrift so I am working to increase the savings rate. Just moved so new job, commute, property taxes, etc. still getting a handle on how little I can subsist on in this new situation. Paid off car and no consumer debt except the mortgage but student loans and childcare are the banes of my existence.

I look forward to cheering everyone on towards the goal!