Author Topic: 2030 FIRE Cohort  (Read 68839 times)

MoneyMouse

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #350 on: August 02, 2018, 09:47:02 AM »
By my rough excel calculations, Iíll be able to FIRE by around 2031, but that all depends on how a couple of big things play out- do I drop to a 30 hour work week once kids hit school age to spend more time with them?  How soon can I convince DW that itís okay to not let a financial advisor steal our money with 1.5% fees?

I'm a sucker for straight numbers, personally.
Would that work on her? Even just a straight comparison of the fees on a $10,000 investment? $150 for 15% or $70 for 7%?

Or maybe get her reading about ETFs and how it's actually not as complicated managing those yourself as most might think?

@MoneyMouse-  Donít worry about feeling ďlate to the gameĒ.  I have the same feeling- Iím 30, married with two kids and could have been in a much better (although it's not by any means bad now!) situation if I had actually known what I was doing earlier on.  I think we all suffer from ďman, if only I had done that!Ē.  But regardless you and I are shaving about 50% off of a standard working career.  Itís kinda like winning the super bowl by three touchdowns instead of four :).

Ha ha, that's a good point. Thank you for that perspective!


I've actually been thinking about a few things, as my love for my job has all but fizzled and crashed. (Horray huge-ass corporate change that no one wants and is only there to advance the career of the bigwigs pushing it, but will in fact horribly damage everything.)

I'll go into more detail about my thoughts in my journal, but I wanted to sort of brain-dump here and see if you all had some ideas.

I dislike my current job and work. I think HR was the wrong field, and I hate administrative work. I enjoy strategic thinking, communication, collaboration and relationship building. To me, this sounds like Business Analyst work and I am going to save up and go to school PT in September to get a BA Certificate and try to make the leap into that sort of work.

I am also considering arranging for 0.8 FTE (80% full time or 30 hours a week) if I can at my current work while I do that, and use the extra time to focus on studies and also take some part-time hustles like dog walking. I have spoken with my psychologist and she thinks maybe I'm just not "cut out" for full-time work. Which I totally agree with - it's another big reason why I wanna FIRE. Maybe doing this, I can cover my basic expenses with my job and then use all my additional jobs as savings money. Then, when I complete my certificate, maybe I can return to full time work as a Business Analyst and I'll be happier.

My biggest concern right now is that I'm just not happy and it's wearing on my mental and physical health.
I want to FI like crazy, but my job right now and my career choice is not at all lucrative. I'm trying to wrap my head and heart around the idea of pursuing happiness now and get reeducation into a better (both money- and satisfaction-wise) field to eventually get into FT work again.

Alright... word vomit over. Gonna put more details in that journal post but for now, there it is.

What do you guys think, Team 2030?

Steeze

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #351 on: August 02, 2018, 11:59:23 AM »
For the 1.5% fees, I usually do something like this:

Assume in a self directed account you achieve a long term average of 7%/yr gains over 30 yrs. Assume a financial advisor can do the same, but charges a 1.5%/yr fee.

$10,000 ◊ (1.07^30) = $76122
$10,000 ◊ (1.055^30) = $49839
That is a difference of $26,282 or 34%

Is having an advisor worth 1/3 of your wealth?

MoneyMouse

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #352 on: August 02, 2018, 01:28:04 PM »
For the 1.5% fees, I usually do something like this:

Assume in a self directed account you achieve a long term average of 7%/yr gains over 30 yrs. Assume a financial advisor can do the same, but charges a 1.5%/yr fee.

$10,000 ◊ (1.07^30) = $76122
$10,000 ◊ (1.055^30) = $49839
That is a difference of $26,282 or 34%

Is having an advisor worth 1/3 of your wealth?

Brilliant calculation!

Also... holy heck... I should transfer my stuff into Questrade and Vanguard, like, post-haste.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #353 on: August 03, 2018, 02:59:11 AM »
By my rough excel calculations, Iíll be able to FIRE by around 2031, but that all depends on how a couple of big things play out- do I drop to a 30 hour work week once kids hit school age to spend more time with them?  How soon can I convince DW that itís okay to not let a financial advisor steal our money with 1.5% fees?

I'm a sucker for straight numbers, personally.
Would that work on her? Even just a straight comparison of the fees on a $10,000 investment? $150 for 15% or $70 for 7%?

Or maybe get her reading about ETFs and how it's actually not as complicated managing those yourself as most might think?

@MoneyMouse-  Donít worry about feeling ďlate to the gameĒ.  I have the same feeling- Iím 30, married with two kids and could have been in a much better (although it's not by any means bad now!) situation if I had actually known what I was doing earlier on.  I think we all suffer from ďman, if only I had done that!Ē.  But regardless you and I are shaving about 50% off of a standard working career.  Itís kinda like winning the super bowl by three touchdowns instead of four :).

Ha ha, that's a good point. Thank you for that perspective!


I've actually been thinking about a few things, as my love for my job has all but fizzled and crashed. (Horray huge-ass corporate change that no one wants and is only there to advance the career of the bigwigs pushing it, but will in fact horribly damage everything.)

I'll go into more detail about my thoughts in my journal, but I wanted to sort of brain-dump here and see if you all had some ideas.

I dislike my current job and work. I think HR was the wrong field, and I hate administrative work. I enjoy strategic thinking, communication, collaboration and relationship building. To me, this sounds like Business Analyst work and I am going to save up and go to school PT in September to get a BA Certificate and try to make the leap into that sort of work.

I am also considering arranging for 0.8 FTE (80% full time or 30 hours a week) if I can at my current work while I do that, and use the extra time to focus on studies and also take some part-time hustles like dog walking. I have spoken with my psychologist and she thinks maybe I'm just not "cut out" for full-time work. Which I totally agree with - it's another big reason why I wanna FIRE. Maybe doing this, I can cover my basic expenses with my job and then use all my additional jobs as savings money. Then, when I complete my certificate, maybe I can return to full time work as a Business Analyst and I'll be happier.

My biggest concern right now is that I'm just not happy and it's wearing on my mental and physical health.
I want to FI like crazy, but my job right now and my career choice is not at all lucrative. I'm trying to wrap my head and heart around the idea of pursuing happiness now and get reeducation into a better (both money- and satisfaction-wise) field to eventually get into FT work again.

Alright... word vomit over. Gonna put more details in that journal post but for now, there it is.

What do you guys think, Team 2030?

I'll give the same recommendation I give to everyone struggling with career direction/finding traction in the workforce, which is this book.  It's a set of career-coaching lessons in one book, and even includes finances.  (And for the price of checking it out at the library...)

It's worth the time investment before you go putting time + money investments into other things, as it can help you set not just a direction in general, but a direction within your field. 

I'm also a big fan of high-quality aptitude testing to see what type of work/tasks you would succeed at, although that's substantially more expensive.

At the very least, you will walk away from those things knowing far more about yourself and in a better position to make the big-picture changes you need to make with confidence.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #354 on: August 03, 2018, 11:54:45 AM »
This TED talk is also informative.

MoneyMouse

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #355 on: August 03, 2018, 01:50:46 PM »
I'll give the same recommendation I give to everyone struggling with career direction/finding traction in the workforce, which is this book.  It's a set of career-coaching lessons in one book, and even includes finances.  (And for the price of checking it out at the library...)

It's worth the time investment before you go putting time + money investments into other things, as it can help you set not just a direction in general, but a direction within your field. 

I'm also a big fan of high-quality aptitude testing to see what type of work/tasks you would succeed at, although that's substantially more expensive.

At the very least, you will walk away from those things knowing far more about yourself and in a better position to make the big-picture changes you need to make with confidence.

Thank you!
I'll have to check that out from the library next week.

Hm, I'm not sure where to find aptitude tests, but I'll get in touch with a career coach who used to work in our office. Maybe she knows where I can find one.
I wouldn't mind learning more about what jobs would be a natural fit - I want that. I enjoy times when I feel competent and know I have skill sets that build that.
Unfortunately, right now, I'm most competent herding cats (read: other online players) in a game like Guild Wars 2, ha ha!

This is true about learning more about myself. I have changed significantly in the last 3 years, which is a good thing, I think.
I take it as a sign that I'm living life and creating my own future.

This TED talk is also informative.

Thank you!
I'll have to look into that tonight.

mizzourah2006

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #356 on: August 03, 2018, 07:00:14 PM »
I'll give the same recommendation I give to everyone struggling with career direction/finding traction in the workforce, which is this book.  It's a set of career-coaching lessons in one book, and even includes finances.  (And for the price of checking it out at the library...)

It's worth the time investment before you go putting time + money investments into other things, as it can help you set not just a direction in general, but a direction within your field. 

I'm also a big fan of high-quality aptitude testing to see what type of work/tasks you would succeed at, although that's substantially more expensive.

At the very least, you will walk away from those things knowing far more about yourself and in a better position to make the big-picture changes you need to make with confidence.

Thank you!
I'll have to check that out from the library next week.

Hm, I'm not sure where to find aptitude tests, but I'll get in touch with a career coach who used to work in our office. Maybe she knows where I can find one.
I wouldn't mind learning more about what jobs would be a natural fit - I want that. I enjoy times when I feel competent and know I have skill sets that build that.
Unfortunately, right now, I'm most competent herding cats (read: other online players) in a game like Guild Wars 2, ha ha!

This is true about learning more about myself. I have changed significantly in the last 3 years, which is a good thing, I think.
I take it as a sign that I'm living life and creating my own future.

This TED talk is also informative.

Thank you!
I'll have to look into that tonight.

For that type of stuff Onet is a good resource. Here is a 60 question interest profiler from the cite. Canít speak to its outcomes as Iíve never taken it before but as An I/O Psychologist Onetís research and resources are usually top notch. https://www.onetcenter.org/IP.html?p=2

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #357 on: August 03, 2018, 09:12:38 PM »
I'll give the same recommendation I give to everyone struggling with career direction/finding traction in the workforce, which is this book.  It's a set of career-coaching lessons in one book, and even includes finances.  (And for the price of checking it out at the library...)

It's worth the time investment before you go putting time + money investments into other things, as it can help you set not just a direction in general, but a direction within your field. 

I'm also a big fan of high-quality aptitude testing to see what type of work/tasks you would succeed at, although that's substantially more expensive.

At the very least, you will walk away from those things knowing far more about yourself and in a better position to make the big-picture changes you need to make with confidence.

Thank you!
I'll have to check that out from the library next week.

Hm, I'm not sure where to find aptitude tests, but I'll get in touch with a career coach who used to work in our office. Maybe she knows where I can find one.
I wouldn't mind learning more about what jobs would be a natural fit - I want that. I enjoy times when I feel competent and know I have skill sets that build that.
Unfortunately, right now, I'm most competent herding cats (read: other online players) in a game like Guild Wars 2, ha ha!

This is true about learning more about myself. I have changed significantly in the last 3 years, which is a good thing, I think.
I take it as a sign that I'm living life and creating my own future.

This TED talk is also informative.

Thank you!
I'll have to look into that tonight.

No problem!  The TED talk I sent is from the author of that first book.  I keep meaning to do a blog post on all that - I spent a long, long time devouring every resource possible on the topic/issue and what I sent you are the best. 

As for aptitude testing, you can find the Johnson O'Connor Foundation in most major cities; they're supposedly the best.  My wife and I both took their test and loved it - we learned a lot about ourselves, both changed directions, and both love the direction we're headed in.  It may leave you with more questions than answers: things to explore, and some ideas of which directions to look for things you would be good at.  And it can also rule some things out.  Overall, we thought it well worth the investment (around $700 then) to know more about which job/direction to take, especially since both of us find so much fulfillment in the work that we do.  (More than most people: it turns out that's an aptitude as well.) 

My wife ended up with a new side gig doing things she loved as a kid but was told never to do, and now she both excels at it and makes money doing it, so it's a win-win, and could easily turn into something full-time for her one day. 

As a result of our aptitudes towards work, we have both spent tremendous time investing in this area to understand it, we're both learners, and we both came away with a ton of value added from their testing.  I know many others who've done it and found it very helpful as well - I was referred there originally by friends.   

There are also flip sides to various aptitudes.  For instance, an amazing research analyst/investigator may make a terrible ER physician, because the ER doc has to make tons of off-the-cuff triage decisions under stress, whereas a researcher or investigator can take time, explore connections, and find deeper answers.  Neither is right or wrong, they're just different ways people are made. 

Even within my own vocation, I now know well the things I should probably avoid, won't be as good at, won't enjoy, and will struggle through, as well as the areas where I will blow it away naturally - which is helpful. 

You might look up Johnson O'Connor if you're wanting more insight.

x02947

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #358 on: August 04, 2018, 11:10:39 AM »
Moneymouse and Steeze-  thank you muchly!  I have not done the drawn out over 30 years example and will definitely use that.  It's not like DW is particularly against us doing our own finances- it's more like retirement is "A Big Deal" so the "Experts Know Best" type of thing.  She is indeed coming around, so I'm not terribly worried about it and don't want to push it too hard. 

Moneymouse- elsewhere I read on the forum "do you want to FIRE because you hate your job, or do you hate your job because you want to FIRE?"  I think once you are able to find a schedule and field that works for you, you'll definitely see a big ol' happiness and satisfaction increase. 

I second all the advice about aptitude tests and the like, and would like to add that before making too much of a non-reversable jump try to talk to someone (several someones preferably) already in the field first.  See just how much "actual" work they do vs how much red tape and administrative stuff they deal with.  What does the promotion ladder look like?

cs2print

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #359 on: August 05, 2018, 10:26:31 PM »
Thanks for making this thread. 2030 the latest but trying for earlier!

chuckster

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #360 on: August 06, 2018, 12:23:12 PM »

2030 - Retire by end of year with 25x yearly expense rate



One thing to remember, if I myself am remembering correctly, is that the 25x  benchmark isn't "enough to retire on forever", it's only supposed to be "enough to retire on for 30 years with a reasonable likelihood of not running out of money". Just don't forget to factor in how long you think you might need that to last.

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #361 on: August 06, 2018, 07:34:19 PM »
25x should last forever theoretically as long as I stick to the 4% SWR. Also whatever I get from social security is not factored in so that's all bonus. 

x02947

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #362 on: August 07, 2018, 08:24:35 AM »
Chuckster- technically you are correct about the 25x expenses is for 30 years-that's what the initial trinity study was looking at.  However, it turns out that for the vast majority of cases after 30 years you end up with more than you started out with so you can keep on going.  Also, according to the studies, at no point in previous history has the 4% rule had someone run out of money within 30 years- so with 4% being 100% successful over 30 years, a smart mustachian should be able to recognize well ahead of time that things are going poorly so maybe I should drop my spending to 3.5%, or put some effort into a side hustle to make some income, which effectively means only withdrawing 3.5%.  And, as haypug pointed out, the 4% study assumed no additional income whatsoever (no SS, no inheritance, no lucky pennies on the side of the road).

What is a "safe" SWR?

.00000001% That should be safe enough.

According to the Trinity study that investigated safe withdrawal rates, 4% has become commonly mentioned in most financial circles.

The true answer is going to be whatever percentage you're comfortable with. This is one of those risk based questions. If you're conservative you will want to go for a smaller SWR, if you're not conservative or have a larger than necessary ďstacheĒ greater than 4% is possible.

Other forum topics on the standard withdrawal rate. And MMM's take.


Mezzie

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #363 on: August 07, 2018, 02:17:28 PM »
I'm on track to be FI in 2030, but will likely work until 2033 for both pension and healthcare reasons. Also, I love my job. :)

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #364 on: August 08, 2018, 08:14:00 AM »
Chuckster- technically you are correct about the 25x expenses is for 30 years-that's what the initial trinity study was looking at.  However, it turns out that for the vast majority of cases after 30 years you end up with more than you started out with so you can keep on going.  Also, according to the studies, at no point in previous history has the 4% rule had someone run out of money within 30 years- so with 4% being 100% successful over 30 years, a smart mustachian should be able to recognize well ahead of time that things are going poorly so maybe I should drop my spending to 3.5%, or put some effort into a side hustle to make some income, which effectively means only withdrawing 3.5%.  And, as haypug pointed out, the 4% study assumed no additional income whatsoever (no SS, no inheritance, no lucky pennies on the side of the road).

What is a "safe" SWR?

.00000001% That should be safe enough.

According to the Trinity study that investigated safe withdrawal rates, 4% has become commonly mentioned in most financial circles.

The true answer is going to be whatever percentage you're comfortable with. This is one of those risk based questions. If you're conservative you will want to go for a smaller SWR, if you're not conservative or have a larger than necessary ďstacheĒ greater than 4% is possible.

Other forum topics on the standard withdrawal rate. And MMM's take.


Exactly! and thanks for sharing the MMM post. My annual spending budget of $25K includes about $6.5k in variable spending. so if things are not looking good in the market I can for example postpone travel for a year and cut some other spending down and also look into some part-time work to make up the difference. I plan on being retired for well over 30 years :)

MoneyMouse

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #365 on: August 08, 2018, 10:05:19 AM »
Moneymouse and Steeze-  thank you muchly!  I have not done the drawn out over 30 years example and will definitely use that.  It's not like DW is particularly against us doing our own finances- it's more like retirement is "A Big Deal" so the "Experts Know Best" type of thing.  She is indeed coming around, so I'm not terribly worried about it and don't want to push it too hard. 

Moneymouse- elsewhere I read on the forum "do you want to FIRE because you hate your job, or do you hate your job because you want to FIRE?"  I think once you are able to find a schedule and field that works for you, you'll definitely see a big ol' happiness and satisfaction increase. 

I second all the advice about aptitude tests and the like, and would like to add that before making too much of a non-reversable jump try to talk to someone (several someones preferably) already in the field first.  See just how much "actual" work they do vs how much red tape and administrative stuff they deal with.  What does the promotion ladder look like?

One of the things I struggled with with my ex was that same issue. He would send me Wall Street Journal articles about couples in their 50s who were struggling to retire.
Problem with those was that the "expert" assumed the couple wanted to keep their $800k high-end home in a suburb, a lake lot with boat and 4x4 that they would spend summers in and share with friends and family, buy a new car every 5 years (why?!), and maintain their $3k/mth on eating out (which was separate from their groceries and liquor).

Of course you'd be struggling to retire if you live like that.

I actually had a phone interview yesterday that went quite well.
The position would essentially be a horizontal transfer for me - from entry-level HR (with low pay and no ladder in sight) to an entry-level BA (with equal to slightly higher pay and support to climb a ladder with clear rungs). From my talk with the HR lady, it seems like it actually would be a great fit. She asked a lot of questions - as did I - about what I enjoyed about the jobs I've done and why I think it would fit with the job there. She really didn't sugar coat anything, which I appreciate, and was especially clear with it being a support/entry position but with lots of room to grow upwards.

She even asked me if I was sure that I wouldn't prefer recruitment - and my answer was that I loved working with the clients and solving their problems, but I hated all the paperwork and actual hiring that happened with it.

I mentioned I would be going back to school in September and she was quick to explain that the company would support me in that.

Looking at a lot of BA blogs and information interviews, I think it would be right up my alley. I do want to ask the Senior BA when I meet them about what the paperwork and admin stuff looks like, and if I can expect to move upwards within 1-2 years.

AfricanMustache

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #366 on: August 09, 2018, 04:14:18 PM »
This is my very first post on the forum, having adopted the mustachian ways relatively recently. Having done the numbers we are planning for FIRE or at least FI by 2030 so I therefore happily join this cohort.

Our net worth is about $190k, the majority of which is in our retirement accounts, which will be accessible without penalty when we turn 55, which for me will be 2035 and for DW 2045. So we'll use our stash (with high WR) to tie us over between 2030 and 2035, at which point the retirement funds kick in. Our target spending post-FIRE will be around $35k.

So maybe an interesting scenario for the wise men and women of the MMM community with which I'd appreciate your help. It's a pay off the mortgage vs build stash scenario but since we live in South Africa the variables and considerations are somewhat different than you may be used to. My options are to pay off the mortgage in about 6 years ($230k outstanding) or start building our stash right away, which could then pay off the outstanding mortgage when we FIRE - we don't want mortgage repayments post-FIRE.

1. Mortgage interest rate is 9.2% (you read that right and that is considered low in these parts). It is a variable rate 20-year mortgage with about 20 years still currently remaining (new house).
2. Our local stock market (JSE) has been underperforming (trending sideways) in the last few years due to epic political mismanagement. Prior to that though it has been strong and even outperformed the first-world markets on most time scales. Still more political uncertainty lies ahead for the next few years though. Since our retirement funds may only be invested 25% offshore I already have my fill of local equities anyway and any stash building to be done will be through my U.S. investment account into S&P 500 and global equity index trackers.
3. The problem with 2 above is currency risk - buying dollar-denominated investments when I earn and spend SA Rands. Many a South African investor has in the past gotten negative on the country and moved as much as possible into hard currency, only for the rand to go on a bull run and wipe out any gains that may have otherwise been made. Currency moves almost become more relevant than market performance.
4. The government is currently pushing for constitutional amendments to allow for the expropriation of land without compensation (Venezuela and Zimbabwe-style?). There are differing opinions if and how expropriation may practically be done if at all, but suffice it to say I may not necessarily want to be putting all available excess funds into a mortgage over a property that may actually be legally taken from me by the government (rather let the bank carry the risk?).

I am fairly certain we can realistically achieve our 2030 FIRE goal but am not sure which way to go. Pay off the mortgage over the next 6 years then move to 70-75% SR for the last 5-6 years before FI or build the stash aggressively and worry about the mortgage later, given the country-specific points mentioned above.

x02947

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #367 on: August 10, 2018, 07:43:37 AM »
Welcome AfricanMustache! (Man, Iím only 4 posts old and already welcoming people, lol).  Iím sorry, I really donít have any advice regarding your mortgage/stash scenario.  Thatís way beyond my level of expertise.  Maybe try posting this in the larger forum, possibly the Ask a Mustachian subforum.  That way you would get exposure to some users with more MMM experience than us- possibly even another South African Mustachian! Either way though, I wish you the best of luck and please keep us posted!

One of the things I struggled with with my ex was that same issue. He would send me Wall Street Journal articles about couples in their 50s who were struggling to retire.
Problem with those was that the "expert" assumed the couple wanted to keep their $800k high-end home in a suburb, a lake lot with boat and 4x4 that they would spend summers in and share with friends and family, buy a new car every 5 years (why?!), and maintain their $3k/mth on eating out (which was separate from their groceries and liquor).

Of course you'd be struggling to retire if you live like that.

Even before I found MMM everyone kept telling me ďyou need 80% of your income in retirement!Ē and I was always confused because if I happily lived on less of that on a near-entry level salary, why would I need 2x or 3x my current expenses in retirement?

I actually had a phone interview yesterday that went quite well.
The position would essentially be a horizontal transfer for me - from entry-level HR (with low pay and no ladder in sight) to an entry-level BA (with equal to slightly higher pay and support to climb a ladder with clear rungs). From my talk with the HR lady, it seems like it actually would be a great fit. She asked a lot of questions - as did I - about what I enjoyed about the jobs I've done and why I think it would fit with the job there. She really didn't sugar coat anything, which I appreciate, and was especially clear with it being a support/entry position but with lots of room to grow upwards.

She even asked me if I was sure that I wouldn't prefer recruitment - and my answer was that I loved working with the clients and solving their problems, but I hated all the paperwork and actual hiring that happened with it.

I mentioned I would be going back to school in September and she was quick to explain that the company would support me in that.

Looking at a lot of BA blogs and information interviews, I think it would be right up my alley. I do want to ask the Senior BA when I meet them about what the paperwork and admin stuff looks like, and if I can expect to move upwards within 1-2 years.

I am reminded of a saying- ďMake the plan, work the plan.  Hope is not a valid course of actionĒ.  Sounds like you are making a level-headed rational decision, doing your research, and keeping your eyes open.  Things will get a bit hairy at time working full time and taking classes (personal experience here), but knowing what you want and will get out of it will go a long way towards keeping your sanity.

WGH

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #368 on: August 10, 2018, 01:47:17 PM »
Hello folks I will throw in my name for the 2030 crowd though it will be July 2031 when I will be eligible to retire with pension. Divorce unfortunately wiped out a chunk of my stache through the QDRO but it has readjusted my line of thinking from retiring at 55 with multi millions to 51 with close to a million and the pension.

Budgeting while married was a nightmare as the SO was a spendthrift so I am working to increase the savings rate. Just moved so new job, commute, property taxes, etc. still getting a handle on how little I can subsist on in this new situation. Paid off car and no consumer debt except the mortgage but student loans and childcare are the banes of my existence.

I look forward to cheering everyone on towards the goal!

AfricanMustache

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #369 on: August 10, 2018, 01:50:31 PM »
Welcome AfricanMustache! (Man, Iím only 4 posts old and already welcoming people, lol).  Iím sorry, I really donít have any advice regarding your mortgage/stash scenario.  Thatís way beyond my level of expertise.  Maybe try posting this in the larger forum, possibly the Ask a Mustachian subforum.  That way you would get exposure to some users with more MMM experience than us- possibly even another South African Mustachian! Either way though, I wish you the best of luck and please keep us posted!


Thank you very much! I will definitely try one of the broader forums since I guess it is more specialized stuff :)

Road2Freedom

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #370 on: August 24, 2018, 11:25:50 AM »
Setting this as our goal, but may be a stretch as Personal Capital says we have a 52% chance of our portfolio supporting our goals.  Also likely in for a rough patch at end of year due to wife's position being moved overseas.  She'll receive a severance and there's still a chance she may be kept on.  Until then, we'll keep on keepin' on.

Age: 42 (me) & 45 (DW)

Net worth: $482,632 (includes $30,342 that is in a 529 and other investments for our son who is 16)
Rollover IRAs: $120,969 (me) and $44,329 (DW)
Mutual Funds: $40,343
Roth IRA: $42,826 (me)
401Ks: $31,506 (me) and $118,387 (DW)
Cash: $54,224 (checking/savings - fluctuates quite a bit as one can expect)
529 & other college funds for our son who is 16:  $30,342

We have no debt and currently rent (long story short is we plan on moving after our son finishes HS in 2019).

NW - 521,381.

Figure I would do a quick update.  Won't break out the numbers, but can say that I maxed out my Roth IRA earlier this week and also bumped up our 401Ks to 20% (DW) and 25% (me) since finding the FI community back in May.

DW has also been extended to March and there's a possibility she may be kept on as the move overseas hasn't gone well.   Negative is they were acquired by a new company and health insurance is not as good and also more expensive.  May have to adjust 401K contributions in order to put money into a HSA.  Must say we were fortunate to have incredible insurance for so many years.

NW - $558,000.  Market's hot start to the year has really helped out.  Personal Capital shows an increase of slightly over $19,000 since Jan 1. 

Still figuring out how much of an impact having high deductible health insurance will have this year.
First, the bad...
So getting a big taste of having a HDHP and crazy to see what they bill you.  Ended up breaking a finger on my left hand (surgery) and fracturing my right wrist a couple weeks ago.  Talk about fun times.  At least the right hand is in a brace and should heal on its own.  Looks like I've hit my $4K deductible (plan started Jul 1) and will likely hit the individual out of pocket ($6850) soon.  Paid the hospital almost $3200 and just found out today that they overcharged me by almost $900 so get to chase that refund down next week.

And the good:
Wife ended up losing her job in May, got a decent severance (7 months), and started a new job earlier this month.  She has to commute now, so she's getting used to that, but she is actually making more money.  I set her 401K to 30% (max they allow) to try and stuff as much away as possible.  Plan is to also move closer to where we work after our son graduates next year.  Homes and taxes are definitely higher, but hope that will offset the time and money gained by having a shorter commute.

I'm in a 100% commission (recoverable draw) role and hit a pretty nice run this spring/summer that will end up being my best year to date.  That run, and the money that's finally starting to come in, will put me close to maxing my 401K at the end of the month.  Have never done that before and will try to add money to maximize paying for the medical bills.  I wish they would allow you to pick an amount so you could hit the number on the nose, but they only allow full percentages.

Finding the FIRE community last year has been great.  Helped me focus even more on saving for retirement and identifying cost saving opportunities.  Such a wealth of information on there. 



Lucky Recardito

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #371 on: August 24, 2018, 11:46:40 AM »
@Road2Freedom -- I noticed that you don't have an HSA on your list of assets, but you're on an HDHP. If you don't have an HSA, it should be on your to-do list pronto! That's another $6900 (assuming you and your family are on the same plan) you can contribute to a tax-sheltered account this year, and it effectively lowers the cost of future medical bills by your marginal tax rate (+ your half of payroll taxes if your HSA is set up through your employer and funded via paycheck deductions).

letsdoit

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #372 on: August 24, 2018, 12:15:26 PM »
we still have not maxed out 401s and ROth IRAs since the baby. 
i guess trying counts

Road2Freedom

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #373 on: August 24, 2018, 01:13:53 PM »
@Road2Freedom -- I noticed that you don't have an HSA on your list of assets, but you're on an HDHP. If you don't have an HSA, it should be on your to-do list pronto! That's another $6900 (assuming you and your family are on the same plan) you can contribute to a tax-sheltered account this year, and it effectively lowers the cost of future medical bills by your marginal tax rate (+ your half of payroll taxes if your HSA is set up through your employer and funded via paycheck deductions).

I do now.  When I started posting we were under my wife's PPO because it was ridiculously good and cheap.  I've only been doing $100 per pay period, but plan on ramping that up now that I'm maxing out my 401K.  Checks were pretty tight when I didn't have any commissions coming in and it was just a draw.

I also have to figure out if I can max my HSA or not.  My wife was on her own HDHP until May, is currently on mine, but will be moving to her new employers later this year.  Not sure if her contributions would count against what I can put into my plan.

I also have accidental insurance through my company so there's a chance I'll get reimbursed on some of the expenses.  They called me today and asked for additional details / medical statements to see if I'll get anything.

I haven't updated the individual list of assets since last year.

Road2Freedom

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #374 on: August 24, 2018, 01:18:50 PM »
we still have not maxed out 401s and ROth IRAs since the baby. 
i guess trying counts

I would say so!  I'd never done it before but made it a priority to try this year.  Our 401K only allows a 25% max contribution per pay period.  Kind of sucks when you're on a variable income because it's really tight at times and then you're unable to dump extra money when you have a good commission check.

Having a 17yr old also makes it tough:-).  They're expensive.

Lucky Recardito

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #375 on: August 24, 2018, 01:47:27 PM »
@Road2Freedom -- I noticed that you don't have an HSA on your list of assets, but you're on an HDHP. If you don't have an HSA, it should be on your to-do list pronto! That's another $6900 (assuming you and your family are on the same plan) you can contribute to a tax-sheltered account this year, and it effectively lowers the cost of future medical bills by your marginal tax rate (+ your half of payroll taxes if your HSA is set up through your employer and funded via paycheck deductions).

I do now.  When I started posting we were under my wife's PPO because it was ridiculously good and cheap.  I've only been doing $100 per pay period, but plan on ramping that up now that I'm maxing out my 401K.  Checks were pretty tight when I didn't have any commissions coming in and it was just a draw.

I also have to figure out if I can max my HSA or not.  My wife was on her own HDHP until May, is currently on mine, but will be moving to her new employers later this year.  Not sure if her contributions would count against what I can put into my plan.


Re. HSA max: since you have a child, I'm guessing that one of you has coverage just for yourself, and the other has coverage for yourself+child? In that case, your limit TOGETHER for 2018 is $6900 (so whatever your spouse puts in her HSA, + whatever you put in your HSA, and inclusive of any contribution from either employer).

Re. HSA use in general: a couple of esoteric points that might be useful to your situation --

1) You can reimburse yourself from your HSA for any expenses incurred after the HSA was opened, even if you don't actually have the money in the account until later. Example: You opened the HSA 1/1/2018. You had an accident w/ $6,000 in medical expenses in March, but you only had $300 in your HSA at that time, so you paid the bill out of pocket. That's okay! You can keep contributing to that HSA this year (and beyond), and reimburse yourself for that $6,000 medical expenditure at any point in the future, once you have the funds.

2) Even though you and your spouse have separate HSAs, you can use the funds in those HSAs for each other's expenses. Limits for contributing to an HSA are all about who is covered under the connected health plan; spending from an HSA is all about who is in your tax household.

That said, there's also nothing wrong with just leaving the $$ in your HSA(s) and letting it grow since you've already paid the expenses. But keep all the receipts from medical expenses you pay out of pocket, b/c you can reimburse yourself for them at any time in the future (which could help with cash flow in early retirement, for example -- or just any time in the future wh en you need a way to access tax-sheltered funds without penalty).

Road2Freedom

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #376 on: August 24, 2018, 02:04:53 PM »
@Road2Freedom -- I noticed that you don't have an HSA on your list of assets, but you're on an HDHP. If you don't have an HSA, it should be on your to-do list pronto! That's another $6900 (assuming you and your family are on the same plan) you can contribute to a tax-sheltered account this year, and it effectively lowers the cost of future medical bills by your marginal tax rate (+ your half of payroll taxes if your HSA is set up through your employer and funded via paycheck deductions).

I do now.  When I started posting we were under my wife's PPO because it was ridiculously good and cheap.  I've only been doing $100 per pay period, but plan on ramping that up now that I'm maxing out my 401K.  Checks were pretty tight when I didn't have any commissions coming in and it was just a draw.

I also have to figure out if I can max my HSA or not.  My wife was on her own HDHP until May, is currently on mine, but will be moving to her new employers later this year.  Not sure if her contributions would count against what I can put into my plan.


Re. HSA max: since you have a child, I'm guessing that one of you has coverage just for yourself, and the other has coverage for yourself+child? In that case, your limit TOGETHER for 2018 is $6900 (so whatever your spouse puts in her HSA, + whatever you put in your HSA, and inclusive of any contribution from either employer).

Re. HSA use in general: a couple of esoteric points that might be useful to your situation --

1) You can reimburse yourself from your HSA for any expenses incurred after the HSA was opened, even if you don't actually have the money in the account until later. Example: You opened the HSA 1/1/2018. You had an accident w/ $6,000 in medical expenses in March, but you only had $300 in your HSA at that time, so you paid the bill out of pocket. That's okay! You can keep contributing to that HSA this year (and beyond), and reimburse yourself for that $6,000 medical expenditure at any point in the future, once you have the funds.

2) Even though you and your spouse have separate HSAs, you can use the funds in those HSAs for each other's expenses. Limits for contributing to an HSA are all about who is covered under the connected health plan; spending from an HSA is all about who is in your tax household.

That said, there's also nothing wrong with just leaving the $$ in your HSA(s) and letting it grow since you've already paid the expenses. But keep all the receipts from medical expenses you pay out of pocket, b/c you can reimburse yourself for them at any time in the future (which could help with cash flow in early retirement, for example -- or just any time in the future when you need a way to access tax-sheltered funds without penalty).

REALLY appreciate all the info!  Wasn't sure how the max contribution worked and good to know I have the option of reimbursing myself at a later date.
 Our son was/is under my plan and will remain when she goes to her new employers.  Ended up being the lowest monthly cost.

I'll have to ask her again what she has in her balance since her former employer made a contribution when their company's plan changed in Jan.

Nate R

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #377 on: August 26, 2018, 04:20:04 PM »
Just updating on my progress.

I've been convinced to be a bit more conservative by my reading of Big ERN's blog.

So, really aiming for 28.5X around 2030, and will have some other small income as well to hit that #. (And some to pay off my house, too.)

Stache is at 4.6x today, so probably about right on track. :-)

Hit $250K total NW this month, and the stache is just under 5.5x. Chugging along!

haypug16

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #378 on: August 31, 2018, 08:12:11 AM »
Just updating on my progress.

I've been convinced to be a bit more conservative by my reading of Big ERN's blog.

So, really aiming for 28.5X around 2030, and will have some other small income as well to hit that #. (And some to pay off my house, too.)

Stache is at 4.6x today, so probably about right on track. :-)

Hit $250K total NW this month, and the stache is just under 5.5x. Chugging along!

Sweet! Quarter of a Million :)

X= Yearly Expenses
2017 - Stache at 1x   $25,000 - Ending Balance $29,448.59
2018 - Stache at 2x   $50,000 - current balance $35,843.32 = 1.43x expenses
2019 - Stache at 3x   
2020 - Stache at 4.5x   
2021 - Stache at 6x   
2022 - Stache at 8x   
2023 - Stache at 10x   
2024 - Stache at 12x   
2025 - Stache at 14x   
2026 - Stache at 16x   
2027 - Stache at 18x   
2028 - Stache at 20x   
2029 - Stache at 22x   
2030 - Retire by end of year with 25x yearly expense rate

I think I'm going to hit closer to 1.7x at the end of the year. I am still working on Student Loans and that's taking a good chunk of my "extra" money. Still pleased with my upward trend and each month the increase is getting bigger and bigger. :)

Guava

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #379 on: September 05, 2018, 07:46:31 AM »
It's been awhile since I last posted because I needed to step away from lots of things to lighten my anxiety. The good news is that since I stepped away from tracking money I was able to relax a bit and focus on accomplishing things around the house.

Our new building is finished and the net worth hit is hardly noticeable. My pregnancy is going well (thanks to Lucky Recardito, rebel_quietude, and HappierAtHome for your kind words) and I even had a month or two where I felt pretty good! We even already hit our year end investment goal in the month of August.

Thanks for all of the support here everyone. I love reading all of the progress and stories.

letsdoit

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #380 on: September 05, 2018, 09:22:50 AM »
what did big ERN say, or where do i read it?

Nate R

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #381 on: September 05, 2018, 11:17:57 AM »
what did big ERN say, or where do i read it?

Got a month? :-D 
https://earlyretirementnow.com/2016/12/07/the-ultimate-guide-to-safe-withdrawal-rates-part-1-intro/

There are now 28 parts to this series. But the messages become clear over time.
 It all depends on your risk tolerance and beliefs about future returns, etc. But I like ERN's approach to W/D rates, and it makes sense to ME. For me, the increase in "safety factor" going from 4% to 3.5% or so is worth it. Not so say my tune wouldn't change if I was sitting at 3.9% right now or something.  ;-)

letsdoit

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #382 on: September 05, 2018, 04:06:59 PM »
golly jeebers.
ERN has too much info
maybe i can just call him and he'll tell me what to do

MrOnyx

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #383 on: September 06, 2018, 02:08:09 AM »
Not to turn this thread into another just how safe is the 4% SWR? thread, but the thing with calculations, predictions and studies like this, is that they assume a very robotic spending/withdrawal behaviour. They assume that you're going to literally do this...

if month == January {
    withdraw amount_equal_to_expenses from portfolio
    };

(Substitute as necessary for timing/frequency of withdrawal)

... without even thinking about other factors. For example, "Huh, another economic disaster on scale with the 1920's? My entire portfolio is down over 50%? Better withdraw the same amount I did last year." Thing is, nobody does this. If you did, then that year you'd be withdrawing around 8% of your portfolio's value, breaking the 4% rule.

In reality, you'd notice things like that and adjust as necessary. Maybe do some freelance/part time work to tide you over til the market recovers. Flexibility and other safety margins are king here imho.

Again, I know this is a hot topic, and I don't want to drive us off on too much of a tangent here, but it's just something to consider. At the end of the day, you pick your own risk tolerance, do your own thing, and more power to you for it. But for me personally, when there are this many early retirees - including those who are here on this forum - who have found massive success with the 25x expense, 4% SWR rule, it's good enough for me! :)

AfricanMustache

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #384 on: September 06, 2018, 05:29:55 AM »
Since you brought it up, I recently came across a paper by a certain Prof. Wade Pfau. Not sure if it's been discussed before. Link here: http://dl.stealthywealth.co.za/AnInternationalPerspectiveOnSafeWithdrawalRates.pdf

He looked at SWRs for different countries, which is of interest to me since I am not U.S. based. It comes down to the 4% rule working only for 4 out of the 17 countries studied. Good news for U.S. retirees is that his study also confirmed the 4% rule as being safe over a 30-year period in the U.S., supporting the findings of the Trinity study. Interestingly maximum safety occurred with a 57-60% stock allocation in retirement. SWR falls below 4% at higher (>70%) and lower (<30%) stock allocation. So 4% was safe provided you get your AA right.

For international MMMers like myself it is not as rosy though. The 4% SWR provided 100% safety only in Canada, U.S., Sweden and Denmark. For other countries like my own South Africa, Australia, U.K. and others the 4% rule didn't provide adequate safety over a 30-year period.

So personally I'd be aiming for at least 3.5%. It is far less risky and less dependent on perfect AA.

Nate R

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #385 on: September 06, 2018, 08:49:14 AM »
Not to turn this thread into another just how safe is the 4% SWR? thread, but the thing with calculations, predictions and studies like this, is that they assume a very robotic spending/withdrawal behaviour. They assume that you're going to literally do this...

if month == January {
    withdraw amount_equal_to_expenses from portfolio
    };

(Substitute as necessary for timing/frequency of withdrawal)

... without even thinking about other factors. For example, "Huh, another economic disaster on scale with the 1920's? My entire portfolio is down over 50%? Better withdraw the same amount I did last year." Thing is, nobody does this. If you did, then that year you'd be withdrawing around 8% of your portfolio's value, breaking the 4% rule.

In reality, you'd notice things like that and adjust as necessary. Maybe do some freelance/part time work to tide you over til the market recovers. Flexibility and other safety margins are king here imho.

Again, I know this is a hot topic, and I don't want to drive us off on too much of a tangent here, but it's just something to consider. At the end of the day, you pick your own risk tolerance, do your own thing, and more power to you for it. But for me personally, when there are this many early retirees - including those who are here on this forum - who have found massive success with the 25x expense, 4% SWR rule, it's good enough for me! :)

I don't want to elaborate too much on this, but ERN's series covers these kinds of things, and does backtesting "what-ifs." If the market drops X, and you go back to work, what's your safe W/D rate THEN, etc. He's got a whole bit on "flexibility." He's got "too much info" because it takes that much input to have your output be a smart, informed decision to cover the what-ifs.
I had thought the same thing, "I'm flexible, I can do x or y, I'll be fine." But actually running the numbers in those scenarios as ERN does is eye-opening.

I agree that everyone has to come to their own conclusions. I just think ERN has done the best job I've seen yet of testing a wide variety of scenarios and what-ifs. Trying to emulate reality better.

Torios

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #386 on: September 07, 2018, 05:24:33 AM »
Hi,

7 years from FI using MadFientist's Lab calculator, married to someone much smarter than me. I've been a reader for about 5 years now, where I discovered this stuff in college and it definitely set me on the right path. Super proud of my $450 rent for my 2bd apartment only 10 mins from my work in an unbelievably safe area for the cost of living. Joining this group because I have 9 years left on my contract for my job, so its kind of moot if I achieve FI but can't actually quit my job. Wife is still in school, so when she leaves, we should accelerate progress by a little bit by not needing to maintain another apartment and hopefully increasing her modest research salary.

Despite having done what I feel to be all the right things, zero debt (and married someone with zero debt and an even less spendy lifestyle), saving/investing every spare penny possible, I see only incremental gains each month... and its a little depresssing, especially after the wholesale buffet style consumption of FI material where you listen every day to someone that has already made it and talking about how awesome it is.

Does anyone else, despite the glorious promise of freedom down the road, get a little depressed when the day to day progress is so painstakingly slow?

rebel_quietude

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #387 on: September 07, 2018, 06:07:25 AM »
Welcome, Torios!

It feels like forever in the beginning. Do me a favor and check in a few years from now, when your 'stache is making you far more money than your 9-5. It'll happen, and it'll feel like a miracle. Just ignore the day to day, focus on your spending, and find some hobbies to enjoy in your retirement!

MrOnyx

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #388 on: September 07, 2018, 06:21:52 AM »
Thanks for posting that, @rebel_quietude! Deep down, I needed that, too, I think.

The problem is that it becomes very, very easy to daydream while reading MMM, imagining being in his shoes, having his absolute freedom - with 100% of his time to do as he wishes...

Then you remember you're at work and need to get that report done...

I found this to cause quite a dissonance and almost an impatience. But I know I must be patient. Ten years is still ten years; not ten weeks.

Just lately I've been getting bogged down with this that and the other, like the brief 4% discussion above, but I know I just need to grit my teeth and keep going. A few years down the line, I'll be in a far better, more comfortable position, and it'll have been so very worth it. Worrying over the tiny details don't matter much in the end, I'm sure.

@Torios, you're doing great and by the sounds of it, you're in an absolutely fantastic position! Congrats, and good luck! The thing about us young people is that time is on our side. This is going to take a few years, but the best bit is that we'll still be relatively young when it's over! :)

letsdoit

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #389 on: September 07, 2018, 07:02:17 AM »
let's focus on squeezing as much as we can from today!

AfricanMustache

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #390 on: September 08, 2018, 05:03:45 AM »
I also tend to get bogged down in the numbers and the dream of FI (which I know will happen), and have recently found it difficult to just live in the present as well.

I'm at a stage in my career where I've reached most of what I've been working toward all my adult life and now reaping the financial rewards. Many money mistakes made along the way, but since finding MMM a short while back I have this absolute focus on FI and I know it is very achievable now that big house spending is done.

It is the start of our real accumulation phase - exciting but I must remind myself to also enjoy what life has to offer in the mean time.

x02947

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #391 on: September 08, 2018, 05:53:07 AM »
Indeed.  I also get bogged down in spreadsheets and dreaming of what I will do with all my FIRE time, and then frustrated.  But that's not the point of FIRE!  I have to consciously remind myself that it is a long term goal- when I started college as a freshman I didn't focus all the time on what graduation would be like- I went and enjoyed my time as a freshman.
Now, I generally take a break from the forum for a couple days and try to something now that I want to do then.  Case in point- I was going to go crunch the numbers for an update this morning, but since I know things are going well and the update would not actually *do* anything for me, I'm going to go grab the kiddos and dog and take a walk before it gets too hot outside :)


aceyou

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #392 on: September 14, 2018, 12:21:56 PM »
Yeah, I can relate to a lot of what you are all saying.  Recently though it's started sinking in that even though I'm not close to FIRE yet, I've essentially won the game already.  The plan is basically bulletproof, I just have to work out the clock. 

Between now and then there's plenty to enjoy...

  • I get to enjoy the funnest years with my children(they are 6 and 3 currently)
  • My wife is as young and beautiful as she'll ever be...although she weirdly seems to get more beautiful with each year, so who knows:)
  • Me and my whole family are in relative good health
  • Great neighbors and friends.

FIRE will be amazing, but it won't offer me anything better than the list of things I already have today.  THESE ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS!!!


MrOnyx

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #393 on: September 15, 2018, 03:48:40 AM »
Yeah, I can relate to a lot of what you are all saying.  Recently though it's started sinking in that even though I'm not close to FIRE yet, I've essentially won the game already.  The plan is basically bulletproof, I just have to work out the clock. 

Between now and then there's plenty to enjoy...

  • I get to enjoy the funnest years with my children(they are 6 and 3 currently)
  • My wife is as young and beautiful as she'll ever be...although she weirdly seems to get more beautiful with each year, so who knows:)
  • Me and my whole family are in relative good health
  • Great neighbors and friends.

FIRE will be amazing, but it won't offer me anything better than the list of things I already have today.  THESE ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS!!!

This is an excellent point. I wouldn't want to tempt fate by saying that the plan is bulletproof, but with that bullet point list, you're already winning.

It's great to aim for FIRE, but don't forget to take a step back and get some perspective on the here and now every once in a while. Especially when FIRE is a few years out yet, which it kinda is for those of us in this cohort...!

beer-man

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #394 on: September 16, 2018, 12:49:00 PM »
Yeah, I can relate to a lot of what you are all saying.  Recently though it's started sinking in that even though I'm not close to FIRE yet, I've essentially won the game already.  The plan is basically bulletproof, I just have to work out the clock. 

Between now and then there's plenty to enjoy...

  • I get to enjoy the funnest years with my children(they are 6 and 3 currently)
  • My wife is as young and beautiful as she'll ever be...although she weirdly seems to get more beautiful with each year, so who knows:)
  • Me and my whole family are in relative good health
  • Great neighbors and friends.

FIRE will be amazing, but it won't offer me anything better than the list of things I already have today.  THESE ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS!!!
Wow yes this is a good reminder for me too! These are the days we’ll look back on and reminisce someday.


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x02947

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #395 on: September 25, 2018, 12:40:19 PM »
Realized that DW and I have enough in savings that if we don't add a single dollar more and assume a 7% return till we are 65, we will have 30x our estimated annual spending, without SS or pension.  So "regular retirement" is set. Roughly speaking, every day I work now subtracts a week from "regular retirement" in my head.  For me this is a much nicer way of thinking about it- rather than adding to the stash till FIRE, I've got the regular retirement in hand already and am just subtracting days I have to work.

FireHiker

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #396 on: September 25, 2018, 05:06:43 PM »
Realized that DW and I have enough in savings that if we don't add a single dollar more and assume a 7% return till we are 65, we will have 30x our estimated annual spending, without SS or pension.  So "regular retirement" is set. Roughly speaking, every day I work now subtracts a week from "regular retirement" in my head.  For me this is a much nicer way of thinking about it- rather than adding to the stash till FIRE, I've got the regular retirement in hand already and am just subtracting days I have to work.

That's a great way to look at it!

For my DH and I, we have our basic needs met if we retire now and move to a LCOL area. I look at it as now we're working for the fun stuff: the travel, the house we want in our desired destination, etc. It's a huge weight off to know that we won't be homeless or starve except in a complete societal meltdown. I still find that the day to day goes SO slowly, but when I look at my NW spreadsheet from 2015 to now I can see that we're making fabulous progress. We're still really hoping to RE closer to 2025 as opposed to 2030, but if we stay put in our current house it will likely be 2030.

MrOnyx

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #397 on: September 26, 2018, 02:06:11 AM »
...
Roughly speaking, every day I work now subtracts a week from "regular retirement" in my head.
...

Brilliant! Wouldn't it be cool if there was a calculator out there that we could use to figure out how many days of FIRE-freedom we're buying with every work day? I'm guessing it could be calculated by taking one's savings rate and expenses to figure out how long they'll take to become FI under average/poor scenarios, then getting the difference between their age then, and the traditional age of retirement in their region, and finally dividing the number by how many work days they have left?

It'd serve as little more than a roughly-estimated motivator, but it'd still be quite neat I think.

I'm nowhere near clever enough to put it together myself, sadly.

rebel_quietude

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #398 on: September 26, 2018, 04:56:55 AM »
This is the closest I've found, from CCCA:

http://engaging-data.com/freedom-calculator/#calendarupdate

If you know how much you save per work day, you can figure out exactly that!

MrOnyx

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Re: 2030 FIRE Cohort
« Reply #399 on: September 26, 2018, 06:46:51 AM »
This is the closest I've found, from CCCA:

http://engaging-data.com/freedom-calculator/#calendarupdate

If you know how much you save per work day, you can figure out exactly that!

That's pretty cool. I think it kind of works like I was thinking, but not quite! Obviously that calculator takes your current savings and assumes you won't continue to add to them for the remaining years, and effectively gives you a percentage of FI-completion. I'm not sure it properly calculates compounding and regular saving - rather a 'stone drop' take from your current position.

Still, it's pretty neat nonetheless! Thanks!