Author Topic: 2019 fire cohort  (Read 140120 times)

2Birds1Stone

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #900 on: July 17, 2018, 06:49:34 PM »
Count me among those that consider it a win to just put a project/idea on my to-do list for after FIRE, much less the thought of actually digging into any of them.  My to-do list is so disorganized (and is actually in about 3-4 random parts depending on where I am when I think of something to add) that I hope I can figure out what I meant when I RE!  I unfortunately assigned myself a project that cannot be delayed until after RE when I popped the question to my BF on our recent vacation.  I mean, we could delay it, but it seems silly, especially at our ages, to not get married for up to 2 years after our engagement because we waited almost a year to even start planning!  It'll be small - 10-30 people probably.  But it's already stressful!

On the RE front, I updated my NW calculations yesterday and found I had hit 3.5% WR on a fairly fat FI budget.  So that feels *great*.  I should quit now, given how much I hate my job.  But, I made a plan to quit 2/19, so it feels irrational or unsafe or something to change my plans.  "Good girls" stick to the plan and don't pull the rip cord abruptly before the agreed moment!  Also, although our wedding will be pretty inexpensive, might as well save up some extra money for that right?  I don't know, though, if I will last 7 more months.  I can pretty much guarantee I'm not going to give notice today, but beyond that, who knows? :)

OTOH, I worry about *not* pulling the rip cord sooner.  I never had a firm number that I had to hit, just a range, and I am within it.  And waiting is just more time of my life I'm missing out on.  As anyone does, I want the safety of more money "just in case".  Part of it is that a significant amount of the money I am counting on continuing in perpetuity is not just traditional investments.  What if it disappeared?  But this is perhaps as likely as taking a 75% loss in the market.  Yes it can happen, and it would be a disaster, but it's tail risk, and you can't live your life based on tail risk.  Well, I guess some people can, but I'm not willing to, though it does nag at me.  Which I think is normal.  Saving up more money to hit a good benchmark like 3.5% and seeing a Life Coach to prepare psychologically for RE were two things that were going to keep me busy until I could actually RE and not get too itchy in the meantime.  Well, I made great progress with the Coach, we've already hit all the topics I wanted to address, so now I have very little to help me bide my time.  So I'm getting itchy.  Which brings me in a nice circle back to the previous paragraph, where good girls don't FIRE just because they are itchy.

3.5% has never failed
F will continue to work
You will get SS at some point (even reduced or changed system)
You can always get a job in the future if you need money or get bored and can't figure out how to occupy your time.

As much as it sucks losing a member of this cohort, I firmly nudge you to the 2018 one ;)

markbike528CBX

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #901 on: July 17, 2018, 07:56:30 PM »
Count me among those that consider it a win to just put a project/idea on my to-do list for after FIRE, much less the thought of actually digging into any of them.  My to-do list is so disorganized (and is actually in about 3-4 random parts depending on where I am when I think of something to add) that I hope I can figure out what I meant when I RE!  I unfortunately assigned myself a project that cannot be delayed until after RE when I popped the question to my BF on our recent vacation.  I mean, we could delay it, but it seems silly, especially at our ages, to not get married for up to 2 years after our engagement because we waited almost a year to even start planning!  It'll be small - 10-30 people probably.  But it's already stressful!

On the RE front, I updated my NW calculations yesterday and found I had hit 3.5% WR on a fairly fat FI budget. So that feels *great*.  I should quit now, given how much I hate my job.  But, I made a plan to quit 2/19, so it feels irrational or unsafe or something to change my plans.  "Good girls" stick to the plan and don't pull the rip cord abruptly before the agreed moment!  Also, although our wedding will be pretty inexpensive, might as well save up some extra money for that right?  I don't know, though, if I will last 7 more months.  I can pretty much guarantee I'm not going to give notice today, but beyond that, who knows? :)

OTOH, I worry about *not* pulling the rip cord sooner.  I never had a firm number that I had to hit, just a range, and I am within it.  And waiting is just more time of my life I'm missing out on.  As anyone does, I want the safety of more money "just in case".  Part of it is that a significant amount of the money I am counting on continuing in perpetuity is not just traditional investments.  What if it disappeared?  But this is perhaps as likely as taking a 75% loss in the market.  Yes it can happen, and it would be a disaster, but it's tail risk, and you can't live your life based on tail risk.  Well, I guess some people can, but I'm not willing to, though it does nag at me.  Which I think is normal.  Saving up more money to hit a good benchmark like 3.5% and seeing a Life Coach to prepare psychologically for RE were two things that were going to keep me busy until I could actually RE and not get too itchy in the meantime.  Well, I made great progress with the Coach, we've already hit all the topics I wanted to address, so now I have very little to help me bide my time.  So I'm getting itchy.  Which brings me in a nice circle back to the previous paragraph, where good girls don't FIRE just because they are itchy.

3.5% has never failed
F will continue to work
You will get SS at some point (even reduced or changed system)
You can always get a job in the future if you need money or get bored and can't figure out how to occupy your time.

As much as it sucks losing a member of this cohort, I firmly nudge you to the 2018 one ;)

As OP of this thread, AND a defector to the 2018 thread, I concur with 2Birds1Stone, and invite you to FIRE in 2018.     There is no shame or problem moving forward a year ( in your case, a few months).

sui generis

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #902 on: July 17, 2018, 10:26:23 PM »
Count me among those that consider it a win to just put a project/idea on my to-do list for after FIRE, much less the thought of actually digging into any of them.  My to-do list is so disorganized (and is actually in about 3-4 random parts depending on where I am when I think of something to add) that I hope I can figure out what I meant when I RE!  I unfortunately assigned myself a project that cannot be delayed until after RE when I popped the question to my BF on our recent vacation.  I mean, we could delay it, but it seems silly, especially at our ages, to not get married for up to 2 years after our engagement because we waited almost a year to even start planning!  It'll be small - 10-30 people probably.  But it's already stressful!

On the RE front, I updated my NW calculations yesterday and found I had hit 3.5% WR on a fairly fat FI budget. So that feels *great*.  I should quit now, given how much I hate my job.  But, I made a plan to quit 2/19, so it feels irrational or unsafe or something to change my plans.  "Good girls" stick to the plan and don't pull the rip cord abruptly before the agreed moment!  Also, although our wedding will be pretty inexpensive, might as well save up some extra money for that right?  I don't know, though, if I will last 7 more months.  I can pretty much guarantee I'm not going to give notice today, but beyond that, who knows? :)

OTOH, I worry about *not* pulling the rip cord sooner.  I never had a firm number that I had to hit, just a range, and I am within it.  And waiting is just more time of my life I'm missing out on.  As anyone does, I want the safety of more money "just in case".  Part of it is that a significant amount of the money I am counting on continuing in perpetuity is not just traditional investments.  What if it disappeared?  But this is perhaps as likely as taking a 75% loss in the market.  Yes it can happen, and it would be a disaster, but it's tail risk, and you can't live your life based on tail risk.  Well, I guess some people can, but I'm not willing to, though it does nag at me.  Which I think is normal.  Saving up more money to hit a good benchmark like 3.5% and seeing a Life Coach to prepare psychologically for RE were two things that were going to keep me busy until I could actually RE and not get too itchy in the meantime.  Well, I made great progress with the Coach, we've already hit all the topics I wanted to address, so now I have very little to help me bide my time.  So I'm getting itchy.  Which brings me in a nice circle back to the previous paragraph, where good girls don't FIRE just because they are itchy.

3.5% has never failed
F will continue to work
You will get SS at some point (even reduced or changed system)
You can always get a job in the future if you need money or get bored and can't figure out how to occupy your time.

As much as it sucks losing a member of this cohort, I firmly nudge you to the 2018 one ;)

As OP of this thread, AND a defector to the 2018 thread, I concur with 2Birds1Stone, and invite you to FIRE in 2018.     There is no shame or problem moving forward a year ( in your case, a few months).

hahaha, well, thanks @2Birds1Stone and @markbike528CBX! I appreciate the push.  I'm not gonna waste anyone's time quibbling back and forth over a list of "buts"....BUT... I do feel like I either need to pull the cord soon or just wait those few months because....it's suddenly looking like I have a chance of making my bonus this year after all (which I was skeptical about for the last few months, due to a couple slow months earlier in the year).  It's been so intense lately, that suddenly I only need to bill about 42.5 hours per week till November (the end of my bonus year) to get the bonus.  So, I either need to cut my losses ASAP, or stick around.  There's no use working all the way through November and then not staying an employee in good standing long enough for them to hand me about $35k (post tax) on 2/1/19. 

Ugh.  Decisions are hard.

Also?  Ugh. I said "only need to bill about 42.5 hours per week."  I kind of hate myself for that.

Trifele

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #903 on: July 18, 2018, 03:28:40 AM »
It's been so intense lately, that suddenly I only need to bill about 42.5 hours per week till November (the end of my bonus year) to get the bonus.

<snip>

Also?  Ugh. I said "only need to bill about 42.5 hours per week." 

Yeah, lawyer here, and I noticed that. ;)   Look, @sui generis, financially you're there.  You don't need the bonus.  You can walk right now and get away from the billable hours.  You can FIRE, sleep for a month, and then pursue the life of your dreams.

I understand the 'good girl' thing.  The good news is that wears off naturally as you get older, especially when you exercise your "No" muscles.  But fuck that billable hours shit.  That slimy shit does not go away, so fuck that.  My two cents.

More good news!  The 2018 Cohort is great and will welcome you, or we'll be happy if you stay with us and FIRE in early 2019.  If you choose to stick around with us to get your bonus, your last few months at work may be easier knowing you're in a position of great power.  (And you won't be caring about billable hours between November and February 1.)  Either way -- you win. 



Eric

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #904 on: July 18, 2018, 09:53:38 AM »
I think there's something to be said for sticking to the plan.  It provides structure and an exact finish line.  Or maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into it because I'm facing nearly the exact same dilemma.  I also just hit 3.5%^ and my plan was always to work into 2019 enough to get a bonus (although much smaller than yours) and earn enough to contribute one last year to my IRA.  But I'm mentally checked out.  I have zero desire or motivation to work anymore.  That said, I really don't want to have to join a different cohort thread since I'm already invested in this one, so I guess I'll just stick it out.


^ Assuming that my proposed budget is realistic and/or desirable, which I really don't know for sure since I'm planning to do the full time traveler thing and it's really hard to budget blind only using others' experiences/spending.

sui generis

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #905 on: July 18, 2018, 04:34:54 PM »
I think there's something to be said for sticking to the plan.  It provides structure and an exact finish line.  Or maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into it because I'm facing nearly the exact same dilemma.  I also just hit 3.5%^ and my plan was always to work into 2019 enough to get a bonus (although much smaller than yours) and earn enough to contribute one last year to my IRA.  But I'm mentally checked out.  I have zero desire or motivation to work anymore.  That said, I really don't want to have to join a different cohort thread since I'm already invested in this one, so I guess I'll just stick it out.


^ Assuming that my proposed budget is realistic and/or desirable, which I really don't know for sure since I'm planning to do the full time traveler thing and it's really hard to budget blind only using others' experiences/spending.

@Eric, if joining the other thread is the only real thing holding you back, you need to RE, dude! 

On proposed budgets, I feel you.  And I'm not even planning to change my life significantly.  I mean, I'm sure this is discussed in a million different threads, but we're all budgeting pretty blind when we are budgeting 40 or 50 years out.  Maybe I'll want to do the full-time traveller thing in 17 years!  Maybe I'll live in a country with decent health systems and my budget will be too high, or I'll stay here and things will go further to shit and it'll be far too low.  Also, if I don't continue to live in the most expensive rental market in America, I'll have a lot of extra money and I do feel truly blind as to where I'll live even in 5 years.  I want to both go somewhere else AND stay here.  Mostly, I feel like I've budgeted conservatively, so safety feels good, but the uncertainty (regardless in which direction) feels...well, both completely natural (TBH) and disconcerting.

gerardc

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #906 on: July 18, 2018, 05:32:45 PM »
I think there's something to be said for sticking to the plan.  It provides structure and an exact finish line.  Or maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into it because I'm facing nearly the exact same dilemma.  I also just hit 3.5%^ and my plan was always to work into 2019 enough to get a bonus (although much smaller than yours) and earn enough to contribute one last year to my IRA.  But I'm mentally checked out.  I have zero desire or motivation to work anymore.  That said, I really don't want to have to join a different cohort thread since I'm already invested in this one, so I guess I'll just stick it out.

Basing retirement decisions on not wanting to change cohort thread! That's new :)

Eric

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #907 on: July 18, 2018, 05:34:16 PM »
It's important to have standards.  This thread is obviously populated by the creme de la creme of the MMM forum.  Those people retiring this year?  Not so much.  lol

Loren Ver

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #908 on: July 18, 2018, 05:36:16 PM »
...
On the RE front, I updated my NW calculations yesterday and found I had hit 3.5% WR on a fairly fat FI budget.  So that feels *great*.  I should quit now, given how much I hate my job.  But, I made a plan to quit 2/19, so it feels irrational or unsafe or something to change my plans.  "Good girls" stick to the plan and don't pull the rip cord abruptly before the agreed moment!  Also, although our wedding will be pretty inexpensive, might as well save up some extra money for that right?  I don't know, though, if I will last 7 more months.  I can pretty much guarantee I'm not going to give notice today, but beyond that, who knows? :)

---

I think there's something to be said for sticking to the plan.  It provides structure and an exact finish line.  Or maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into it because I'm facing nearly the exact same dilemma.  I also just hit 3.5%^ and my plan was always to work into 2019 enough to get a bonus (although much smaller than yours) and earn enough to contribute one last year to my IRA.  But I'm mentally checked out.  I have zero desire or motivation to work anymore.  That said, I really don't want to have to join a different cohort thread since I'm already invested in this one, so I guess I'll just stick it out.
...

This is fantastic.  No matter what either of you decide to do, you won.
~~~~ Congratulations!  ~~~~~~

Oh, I forgot an item on my to-do list:  Investigate starting a Roth conversion pipeline next year.  If our income is as low as I think it might be next year, could be a very good move to get that going. 

I really have to dig in and learn more about taxes this year too, as I come down the home stretch.

We have quite a few of these things to figure out too.  Timing is so important. 

PhilB

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #909 on: July 19, 2018, 03:45:48 AM »
I think there's something to be said for sticking to the plan.  It provides structure and an exact finish line.  Or maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into it because I'm facing nearly the exact same dilemma.  I also just hit 3.5%^ and my plan was always to work into 2019 enough to get a bonus (although much smaller than yours) and earn enough to contribute one last year to my IRA.  But I'm mentally checked out.  I have zero desire or motivation to work anymore.  That said, I really don't want to have to join a different cohort thread since I'm already invested in this one, so I guess I'll just stick it out.

Basing retirement decisions on not wanting to change cohort thread! That's new :)
This is, of course, the principal reason I am staying on as a consultant 1 day a week for a few months after I 'retire' this October.  Otherwise I'd have to leave this thread entirely and only associate with the 2018 boys and girls.

Loren Ver

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #910 on: July 19, 2018, 06:30:30 AM »
The cohort love is amazing :). 

A someone that just switched to the 2019 cohort, I'm not sure what to say....

:p.

LV

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #911 on: July 19, 2018, 06:51:12 AM »
9 1/2 months away now. And I know it's going to fly by, as the second half of every year seems to do (and the first half of this one has been a blur). Have lots of travel coming up (leave for FL today) in August (Costa Rica, CA) and September (KY, MN), and once the holidays approach, time really accelerates. Still have concerns re: going out at the tippy top of an historic bull market, but wtf am I going to do, wait it out several more years? F no. I'm one of the lucky ones with a pension, so even if the market goes to shit, I can wait it out and live decently on the pension alone, and in any event, I'm only planning to take <2% withdrawals for the first 8 years, so I should be fine either way. May 7, 2019, I'm coming fo' yo ass!

Lews Therin

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #912 on: July 19, 2018, 07:24:40 AM »
I have to stay in 2019... it's 20% of my FIRE stash to remain in for a extra year.

or the difference between 5% SWR and 4%.

PhilB

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #913 on: July 19, 2018, 11:59:14 AM »
I have to stay in 2019... it's 20% of my FIRE stash to remain in for a extra year.

or the difference between 5% SWR and 4%.
Wow, that is some savings rate!  Can you elaborate?  Having trouble working out the numbers as moving 5% to 4% would be 20 years spending to 25 years so a 25% increase rather than 20%?

Lews Therin

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #914 on: July 19, 2018, 12:06:05 PM »
Depends on which number you are looking at. It's 25% my current stash, or 20% the FIRE stash (final number)
Current 400k to 500k (FIRE). + Access to a bonus program worth 40; but I'm only using that program as a fallback since I don't know if I'll even use it.
My NW will go up by 100k due to pension payout increase , and very high savings. (I'm somewhere in the 75-85% SR in this final year)

DreamFIRE

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #915 on: July 19, 2018, 02:22:17 PM »

I have every intention of sticking it out in the 2019 cohort also, despite 68X barebones for stash.  I like my job pretty well - have my own office and little supervision - and I am looking at increasing my spending during FIRE to 25X stash due to travel, additional entertainment, and potentially re-locating.  I'm working short weeks through this summer due to benefit days, mostly getting four-day weekends, which I really like.  If my employer would allow me move to that 24hr/wk schedule permanently in 10 to 11 months instead of FIREing, I would consider it.  I wouldn't have to touch the stash, could still save more, and would keep my excellent healthcare benefits.  I would be off more days than I would work even before factoring in vacation days.

sui generis

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #916 on: July 19, 2018, 02:35:06 PM »
If my employer would allow me move to that 24hr/wk schedule permanently in 10 to 11 months instead of FIREing, I would consider it.  I wouldn't have to touch the stash, could still save more, and would keep my excellent healthcare benefits.  I would be off more days than I would work even before factoring in vacation days.

Are you considering asking?  It sounds like there's a real possibility this could happen, given you are going to have a record of doing it successfully for several months at a time before you would request it permanently.

DreamFIRE

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #917 on: July 19, 2018, 04:18:56 PM »
If my employer would allow me move to that 24hr/wk schedule permanently in 10 to 11 months instead of FIREing, I would consider it.  I wouldn't have to touch the stash, could still save more, and would keep my excellent healthcare benefits.  I would be off more days than I would work even before factoring in vacation days.

Are you considering asking?  It sounds like there's a real possibility this could happen, given you are going to have a record of doing it successfully for several months at a time before you would request it permanently.


Yes, if I still feel this way in about 10 months, I'll probably express that desire.  I'm keeping my FIRE plans to myself until then, but I've thought about this from time to time and have done the math.  I have a lot of unique responsibilities and skills within my company, so I'm certain it would be to their benefit to keep me on 24hr/week rather than letting me FIRE completely.  But since my position is on the books as a full time position in the labor budget, they may immediately try to get a full time replacement instead of letting me move to 24 hours, even though I would be more productive at 24 hr than a new employee at full time for the foreseeable future.  If I suggest the part time 24hr/week schedule vs. FIREing, they may counter-offer with a 1 or 2 day schedule while having me work closely with a replacement employee in more of a training role, which means I would would earn even less income and receive less benefits than I would get with 24 hr (healthcare, dental, vision, sicktime/personal days require 24hr/wk minimum, also less vacation with less hours).

I've done the math on 16 hr/wk and could still go with that since that income (after taxes) would pay for the same healthcare benefits (except at a higher cost via COBRA) and would cover all of my other barebones expenses.  So, I would only need to touch the stash for discretionary spending while getting 5 out of 7 days off.  Not bad.  At 8 hr/wk, the income would cover healthcare and part of my barebones expenses while being off 6 out of 7 days.  Still probably worth it.  I would think they would want me available to work in some capacity if I'm willing, but If they simply want me to move to a on-call / as-needed status with no guarantee of 8+ hr/week, the decision becomes less clear as to whether it's worth it.

No matter what, I suspect I would be ready to FIRE completely within another year of working part time, spring of 2020, especially if I lean towards re-locating, but who knows. The drastically reduced schedule would be a great way to wind down.  I'm getting a taste of what it feels like right now.

It's not something I want to approach my CIO with in the meantime because I would rather these next 10+ months of full time work allow me to work peacefully undisturbed in my office without putting the fear of me leaving into the CIO resulting in him moving someone else in with me for cross-training purposes for nearly a year.  That would suck.  Holding off until I'm about a month from FIRE will also give me more leverage for a part time position when the time comes.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 06:42:15 PM by DreamFIRE »

waffles

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #918 on: July 19, 2018, 06:18:56 PM »
Last week, I was looking at my most recent paycheck (with 2 overtime days and holiday pay...so it was a big one!) wondering if I was stupid to retire and give up my paycheck next year. After all, I am still short of my mandatory retirement age (which is 56, early compared to many!). Part of my brain still thinks being a "responsible adult" would be continuing to earn money as long as I can, and I can never have too much money in case of some unforeseen need. Hey, I only found out about this FIRE thing a little over a year ago and am still reprogramming here.

So my very next workday was a reminder of why I am retiring! It was extremely busy and stressful. The universe decided to kick me hard and remind me why I want to retire, and I am lucky to have the resources to do so.

Still on track for June 2019!

2Birds1Stone

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #919 on: July 19, 2018, 08:38:09 PM »
Great stuff @waffles.

@DreamFIRE, I hope your choice to stay on PT has 0 to do with money. With 68X expenses you are already working for fun ;)

DreamFIRE

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #920 on: July 19, 2018, 11:10:41 PM »
@DreamFIRE, I hope your choice to stay on PT has 0 to do with money. With 68X expenses you are already working for fun ;)

Yeah, but 68X only covers barebones expenses, though, no discretionary, and assumes ACA PCT, and no re-location related spending increases.  I certainly wouldn't want to FIRE just to scrape by, but I like to use the bare minimum FI metric.

When adding discretionary spending including anticipated travel and entertainment, I expect to be closer to 25X spend.  I'm in a somewhat LCOL area, so re-locating is more likely to increase my expenses even when trying to keep those costs down, but it could work in my favor also.

Edited for correction:  A 24 hour week would likely result in my stash being 4 to 5% higher vs. having not worked those 10-11 months.  A 16 hour week would drop that close to 2%, 8 hours close to 1%.  I get about 100% success rates in cFireSim as it is, so I don't need the extra for that, and it's not a significant amount of extra to spend, either.

I do like my job, and I like it a lot better working reduced hours, although I wouldn't do it without pay.  It would be more like a temporary side gig in that respect but working with the same co-workers as I ease into retirement.  I'm really not sure if I'll want to do PT when the time comes.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 12:41:51 PM by DreamFIRE »

gerardc

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #921 on: July 19, 2018, 11:41:10 PM »
Yeah, but 68X only covers barebones expenses, though, no discretionary, and assumes ACA PCT, and no re-location related spending increases.  I certainly wouldn't want to FIRE just to scrape by, but I like to use the bare minimum FI metric.

When adding discretionary spending including anticipated travel and entertainment, I expect to be closer to 25X spend.  I'm in a somewhat LCOL area, so re-locating is more likely to increase my expenses even when trying to keep those costs down, but it could work in my favor also.

As far as the money, even the 24 hour part time work over a single year would be pretty insignificant at about 2% stash, the 8 and 16 hr possibilities even less so. There's really not much of a financial incentive.  I do like my job, and I like it a lot better working reduced hours, although I wouldn't do it without pay.  It would be more like a temporary side gig in that respect but working with the same co-workers as I ease into retirement.

If PT allows you not to draw down from your stash, shouldn't you add 4-5% return to that figure?

Trifele

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #922 on: July 20, 2018, 04:17:48 AM »

Yeah, but 68X only covers barebones expenses, though, no discretionary, and assumes ACA PCT, and no re-location related spending increases.  I certainly wouldn't want to FIRE just to scrape by, but I like to use the bare minimum FI metric.

When adding discretionary spending including anticipated travel and entertainment, I expect to be closer to 25X spend. 

I just started to type you a question @DreamFIRE, but I think I just figured it out (slow morning brain) -- when you say 68X and 25X above, you're talking about your post-FIRE spend, right?  Not the total stash amount.

So 68X above stands for spending 1/68 of your stash annually on barebones level?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 12:51:54 PM by Trifele »

tooqk4u22

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #923 on: July 20, 2018, 09:22:43 AM »
Yeah, but 68X only covers barebones expenses, though, no discretionary, and assumes ACA PCT, and no re-location related spending increases.  I certainly wouldn't want to FIRE just to scrape by, but I like to use the bare minimum FI metric.

When adding discretionary spending including anticipated travel and entertainment, I expect to be closer to 25X spend.  I'm in a somewhat LCOL area, so re-locating is more likely to increase my expenses even when trying to keep those costs down, but it could work in my favor also.

As far as the money, even the 24 hour part time work over a single year would be pretty insignificant at about 2% stash, the 8 and 16 hr possibilities even less so. There's really not much of a financial incentive.  I do like my job, and I like it a lot better working reduced hours, although I wouldn't do it without pay.  It would be more like a temporary side gig in that respect but working with the same co-workers as I ease into retirement.

If PT allows you not to draw down from your stash, shouldn't you add 4-5% return to that figure?

If I could either get, or just cover it, health care for the family and a little for the extras in life working just 1-2 days I think that would make sense plus it keeps you engaged. 

I don't think that's an option for me though...I'd have to make $25-35hr and while my effective hourly is much greater than that now all I can say is....

"But what I do have are a very particular set of useless skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare worthless for people like you (and everyone else)."


DreamFIRE

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #924 on: July 20, 2018, 12:30:50 PM »
If PT allows you not to draw down from your stash, shouldn't you add 4-5% return to that figure?

Correction. I double-checked, and in my haste, the 2% figure  that I posted was based on my income for 16 hours and the higher healthcare cost via COBRA, not 24 hours.  My mistake.  I'll edit my previous post.  I'm planning for a 4% SWR in FIRE, so if I went 24 hours and reduced discretionary spending only 15% from my FIRE plan, I wouldn't have to touch the stash, so I would save the full 4% SWR.  I would probably cut discretinary spending by more than 15% since I would still be working 3 days per week, although that would be offset some by the fact I would most likely work PT a maximum of 10 to 11 months instead of a full year (from early June 2019 FIRE date until early April or May 2020).  All considered, a 24hr work schedule would probably result in 4-5% more in the stash over 10-11 months vs. having been fully FIREd during the same time span.  The stash increase would be much less with the 8 and 16 hour PT possibilities, partly due to a much higher healtcare premium via COBRA for working <24 hours.

DreamFIRE

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #925 on: July 20, 2018, 12:35:38 PM »

Yeah, but 68X only covers barebones expenses, though, no discretionary, and assumes ACA PCT, and no re-location related spending increases.  I certainly wouldn't want to FIRE just to scrape by, but I like to use the bare minimum FI metric.

When adding discretionary spending including anticipated travel and entertainment, I expect to be closer to 25X spend. 

I just started to type you a question @DreamFIRE, but I think I just figured it out (slow morning brain) -- when you say 68X and 25X above, your talking about your post-FIRE spend, right?  Not the total stash amount.

So 68X above stands for spending 1/68 of your stash annually on barebones level?

Exactly, and the 25X figure is based on the 1/25th stash standard 4% SWR figure that I'm planning for.

JoJo

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #926 on: July 20, 2018, 04:24:08 PM »
I'm having one of those days where 2019 seems so far away.

Also, I talked to a realtor last night and it seems the market is softening pretty quick right here.  Such a shame I didn't put on the market 2 months ago, but I'm really scared what it might look like if I wait 8 months.

So I'm scrambling trying to get some repairs and cosmetic stuff done but seems everyone is busy.


Trifele

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #927 on: July 20, 2018, 04:58:35 PM »
Updated Cohort Roster with age at FIRE if known and notes.  Rock on everyone!!
 

01/xx/19     MoneyStacher  (51)
01/xx/19     PhilB  (53)                       Moved to October 2018; Possible PT into 2019
02/15/19     sui generis  (41)
02/xx/19     zinnie  (35)
03/08/19     ChasesFish
03/15/19     exit2019  (40)
03/xx/19     MissNancyPryor  (50)     
03/xx/19     Roboturner  (30)
03/xx/19     Edgema
03/25/19     MaybeBabyMustache
03/31/19     TartanTallulah  (55)          OLY -- Moved to 10/31/2018. Congrats @TartanTallulah
04/01/19     Trifele  (52)
04/01/19     HalfStached  (41)
04/01/19     Gerardc  (35)
04/01/19     JoJo (45)
04/xx/19     Luck12  (41)
05/01/19     Albireo13  (61)
05/xx/19     Livingthedream55  (59)
05/xx/19     cerat0n1a                          Now planning summer 2018 FIRE
05/xx/19     dude                               
05/xx/19     SamIAm38  (29)
05/xx/19     FIRE 20/20  (42)
05/14/19     Mr. Ver (40)
05/17/19     Loren Ver (37)
05/31/19     Pylortes  (42)
05/31/19     Odiedog8590  (62)
06/01/19     2Birds1Stone  (32)
06/07/19     DreamFire
06/21/19     Parizade  (62)
06/22/19     Waffles  (52)
06/xx/19     Oldtoyota
06/xx/19     Itchyfeet  (47)
06/xx/19     Bateaux  (50)
06/xx/19     CryingInThePool  (44)
07/xx/19     powersuitrecall  (47)
07/xx/19     Enigma  (39)
07/xx/19     Thedividebyzero  (45)
08/12/19     Canadian Ben  (29)
09/02/19     Cornbread OMalley  (42)
09/xx/19     RetirementDreaming
09/27/19     Spreadsheet Man
10/xx/19     VoteCthulu  (39)
10/xx/19     Trix76  (43)
10/xx/19     MoMan  (55)
12/xx/19     markbike528cbx  (55)        OLY -- CONFIRMED 6-1-18; checking in as OP
12/xx/19     HBFI  (38)
12/xx/19     luckyme13  (45)
12/27/19     moxie
12/31/19     texxan1  (47)

2019 Cohort with date TBD:

madamwitty (36)
Lowerbills (40)
Chrissy (42)
Gerard
getoutsoon (52)
ysette9 (38)
Elaine amj (40)
IPlawyer
Chairman                           SemiFIRE 2018
     

DreamFIRE

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #928 on: July 21, 2018, 08:08:09 PM »
The stash increase would be much less with the 8 and 16 hour PT possibilities, partly due to a much higher healtcare premium via COBRA for working <24 hours.

I was doing some more calculations on this.  For the 8 and 16 hr PT work, I could get enough 457B front-loaded contributions and 401a contributions that I could still get my MAGI down low enough (including passive investment income) for a decent ACA subsidy and get a low cost Bronze plan vs. using COBRA for the final 6 months of the year.  COBRA only comes out ahead vs. ACA in my case if I was to end up having several thousand dollars out of pocket by the end of the year by going with ACA since I still couldn't qualify for CSR subsidies, only a PCT, and my COBRA option has much lower out-of-pocket costs.  I haven't had those type of healthcare needs to point in my career, so ACA would come out about $3000 ahead over 6 months if that holds true.  On the other hand, in addition to the lower out-of-pocket, my COBRA plan through work also has out-of-network coverage while the ACA plan says uncovered except for emergency care.  I would switch to ACA no later than the beginning of 2020 at any rate because canceling COBRA mid-year is not a qualifying event for ACA, and I probably wouldn't want to continue working those PT hours until COBRA would expire, which is a qualifying event.  So, best to get on ACA during the regular sign-up period if I don't get on it when I go to a 8-16 hr work week.

For the 24 hr PT work, there's no question, I could keep my existing work healthcare plan at the same low premium that I currently pay, and when I stop working that schedule and lose the coverage, that is a qualifying event for ACA.

If I had my druthers, I'm not sure which of the three options I would  choose today, let alone what I might choose next year.  24 hr looks the best on paper, especially when factoring in dental, vision, sick/personal days, and vacation/holidays.   But I prefer the 8 and 16 hour work hours in the sense of free time / freedom.  I might not have a choice between the three schedules but expect my company would want me to stay on at least 8 hr/wk (a past employee left his full time position for another full time job a couple years ago yet has stayed on at about 2hr/wk, so there is some precedence.  That's very few hours, but he didn't have unique skills or the productivity that I do and wasn't even replaced, so 8 hr/wk minimum for me certainly seems reasonable).  Without some reasonable guaranteed hours, I can't see wanting to be available on an as-needed basis.  It seems like that would result in only being called for my most in-demand skills when they need me, with a minimal payout required, until they could phase me out, and I would rather terminate employment than do that.

TartanTallulah

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #929 on: July 22, 2018, 03:25:08 AM »
Thanks, Trifele! Having dithered back and forward between 2018 and 2019, I'm not entirely overjoyed at the circumstances that have made me pull the plug now, but I'm sure I'll get over it.

DreamFIRE

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #930 on: July 22, 2018, 09:58:57 AM »
Thanks, Trifele! Having dithered back and forward between 2018 and 2019, I'm not entirely overjoyed at the circumstances that have made me pull the plug now, but I'm sure I'll get over it.

Your ticker hasn't caught up with you yet.

TartanTallulah

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #931 on: July 23, 2018, 07:30:29 AM »
Thanks, Trifele! Having dithered back and forward between 2018 and 2019, I'm not entirely overjoyed at the circumstances that have made me pull the plug now, but I'm sure I'll get over it.

Your ticker hasn't caught up with you yet.

I know! I need to fix it.

Richmond 2020

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #932 on: July 24, 2018, 01:57:53 PM »
Hi all,

Moving my Fire date forward from 2020 to 2019.

Not sure if I will meet the criteria for being classified as Fired as the other half will still be working for another 5 or so years. I will however no longer be a slave chained to my cubicle.

Between the wife and I we currently have $925k in Super which we can start accessing in 17 years time. Outside super we have $185k invested, a house worth $1.1m with $102k owing it. And a half share in 2 small investment property that are currently paying for themselves and earning a small return.

Currently on a combined income of $270k and saving approximately 55%.

The goal for us is to pay off the house in the next 12 months and invest heavily in stocks outside Superannuation to fund the gap between fire and being able acces some of our superannuation.

The DW is 5 years younger so the plan is for me to fire and look after the home front (kids will be 4 and 6) while she works another 5 years approx (she actually likes work).

Iím looking forward to spending time with the kids as well as buying investment properties, fixing them up and renting them out. Canít wait!

Loren Ver

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #933 on: July 24, 2018, 02:51:54 PM »
Hi all,

Moving my Fire date forward from 2020 to 2019.
....


Welcome to the Cohort!! 

I think a family can split a FIRE, why not.  Just because you are a team doesn't mean you have to play the same positions.

LV

sui generis

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #934 on: July 24, 2018, 03:02:40 PM »
Hi all,

Moving my Fire date forward from 2020 to 2019.
....


Welcome to the Cohort!! 

I think a family can split a FIRE, why not.  Just because you are a team doesn't mean you have to play the same positions.

LV
Agreed!  There's no way I'm waiting for my other half.  I can hardly wait as it is!

Trifele

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #935 on: July 24, 2018, 05:53:14 PM »
Welcome aboard @Richmond 2020!  Do you have a target date picked yet?

gerardc

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #936 on: July 24, 2018, 06:49:53 PM »
I'm not even sure I want to FIRE anymore...

Anytime I get a break of a few days without work, I see more clearly. I don't dislike work, I just dislike too much of it / not on my terms. I would prefer a very part-time arrangement. Or remote, because then I can make the arrangement myself.


I think a family can split a FIRE, why not.  Just because you are a team doesn't mean you have to play the same positions.
Would you say a couple can split a FIRE even for a long time, like 20 years? or only as a 1-2 year temporary measure

PhilB

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #937 on: July 25, 2018, 12:25:38 AM »
I'm not even sure I want to FIRE anymore...

Anytime I get a break of a few days without work, I see more clearly. I don't dislike work, I just dislike too much of it / not on my terms. I would prefer a very part-time arrangement. Or remote, because then I can make the arrangement myself.
The beauty of FI is it really gives you those options.  No-one says you have to retire if you don't want to (although expect some facepunches if you use your PT earnings to fund lifestyle inflation).  It's a more difficult decision to go PT before FI as then you are locked in to needing the work which is a completely different dynamic.

Quote
I think a family can split a FIRE, why not.  Just because you are a team doesn't mean you have to play the same positions.
Would you say a couple can split a FIRE even for a long time, like 20 years? or only as a 1-2 year temporary measure
At the risk of sounding like the IRP, if the couple still needs the wages of the one still working, then pretty much by definition they are not FI so neither of them can FIRE.  They can definitely opt for one of them to be a SAHP - indeed this was the standard family model until fairly recently.

Richmond 2020

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #938 on: July 25, 2018, 12:46:15 AM »

At the risk of sounding like the IRP, if the couple still needs the wages of the one still working, then pretty much by definition they are not FI so neither of them can FIRE.  They can definitely opt for one of them to be a SAHP - indeed this was the standard family model until fairly recently.
[/quote]

Point taken. Technically we could both fire  if we chose to move to a rural/country area.

Iíll leave it to the IRP to decide if I can come a long for the ride with this cohort. If so, planning to finish up at work in January 2019.

Thanks for the welcomes Trifele and Loren Ver (even if iím Not allowed to stay lol).

Richmond 2020

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #939 on: July 25, 2018, 03:02:49 AM »
Thanks also Sui G.

PhilB

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #940 on: July 25, 2018, 03:23:55 AM »

At the risk of sounding like the IRP, if the couple still needs the wages of the one still working, then pretty much by definition they are not FI so neither of them can FIRE.  They can definitely opt for one of them to be a SAHP - indeed this was the standard family model until fairly recently.

Point taken. Technically we could both fire  if we chose to move to a rural/country area.

Iíll leave it to the IRP to decide if I can come a long for the ride with this cohort. If so, planning to finish up at work in January 2019.

Thanks for the welcomes Trifele and Loren Ver (even if iím Not allowed to stay lol).
[/quote]
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound unwelcoming and I'm sure everyone is more than happy to have you on board.  If anyone argues you can always play the 'blame the wife' card as in - 'Personally, I'd move to a LCOL area and use the released equity to live on until Super, so I'm FI and retiring.  Wife wants to stay in HCOL area so she isn't and won't be'.  Simples!  Just don't let her find out you said it ;@)

Trifele

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #941 on: July 25, 2018, 04:15:48 AM »
Updated Cohort Roster with age at FIRE if known and notes.  Welcome @Richmond 2020!
 

01/xx/19     MoneyStacher  (51)
01/xx/19     PhilB  (53)                       Moved to October 2018; Possible PT into 2019
01/xx/19     Richmond 2020
02/15/19     sui generis  (41)
02/xx/19     zinnie  (35)
03/08/19     ChasesFish
03/15/19     exit2019  (40)
03/xx/19     MissNancyPryor  (50)     
03/xx/19     Roboturner  (30)
03/xx/19     Edgema
03/25/19     MaybeBabyMustache
03/31/19     TartanTallulah  (55)          OLY -- Moved to 10/31/2018.
04/01/19     Trifele  (52)
04/01/19     HalfStached  (41)
04/01/19     Gerardc  (35)
04/01/19     JoJo (45)
04/xx/19     Luck12  (41)
05/01/19     Albireo13  (61)
05/xx/19     Livingthedream55  (59)
05/xx/19     cerat0n1a                          Now planning summer 2018 FIRE
05/xx/19     dude                               
05/xx/19     SamIAm38  (29)
05/xx/19     FIRE 20/20  (42)
05/14/19     Mr. Ver (40)
05/17/19     Loren Ver (37)
05/31/19     Pylortes  (42)
05/31/19     Odiedog8590  (62)
06/01/19     2Birds1Stone  (32)
06/07/19     DreamFire
06/21/19     Parizade  (62)
06/22/19     Waffles  (52)
06/xx/19     Oldtoyota
06/xx/19     Itchyfeet  (47)
06/xx/19     Bateaux  (50)
06/xx/19     CryingInThePool  (44)
07/xx/19     powersuitrecall  (47)
07/xx/19     Enigma  (39)
07/xx/19     Thedividebyzero  (45)
08/12/19     Canadian Ben  (29)
09/02/19     Cornbread OMalley  (42)
09/xx/19     RetirementDreaming
09/27/19     Spreadsheet Man
10/xx/19     VoteCthulu  (39)
10/xx/19     Trix76  (43)
10/xx/19     MoMan  (55)
12/xx/19     markbike528cbx  (55)        OLY -- CONFIRMED 6-1-18; checking in as OP
12/xx/19     HBFI  (38)
12/xx/19     luckyme13  (45)
12/27/19     moxie
12/31/19     texxan1  (47)

2019 Cohort with date TBD:

madamwitty (36)
Lowerbills (40)
Chrissy (42)
Gerard
getoutsoon (52)
ysette9 (38)
Elaine amj (40)
IPlawyer
Chairman                           SemiFIRE 2018
   

Trifele

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #942 on: July 25, 2018, 04:35:46 AM »
No worries @Richmond 2020 -- we've got all sorts here in this cohort.  Everything from singles and married couples who plan to never work a day again, over to people who already know they'll probably be working again, to married people whose spouses are going to keep working.     

I'm a professional in an all-consuming, gut-churning Big Job.  But I also have an unrelated 5-hour-per-week side gig that I have had for 10 years, and I will keep it as long as it lasts.  I like it, and it's good money.  When I quit Big Job, I sure as hell will consider myself FIREd and will celebrate accordingly, whatever the IRP may say about my side gig.  Oh -- I also have a spouse who's currently a SAHP who says he wants to return to work someday when the kids are older.  He can do whatever he wants.  When the day comes I'm calling myself 'FIREd' baby!!   :)

I think it's all about the freedom and the options.

 

Loren Ver

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #943 on: July 25, 2018, 06:15:12 AM »

I think it's all about the freedom and the options.

^^^^ 
This. 


2Birds1Stone

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #944 on: July 25, 2018, 06:36:03 AM »
IRP can say what it will say.

This is about your own journey, so you make the rules ;)

I will undoubtedly have/want to return to paid work at some point. After being a frugal vagabond for a few years, I'm not sure I want to live on $20-24k/yr forever. Time will tell though......

So for now, 310 more days it is! 

dude

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #945 on: July 25, 2018, 08:58:07 AM »
Hi all,

Moving my Fire date forward from 2020 to 2019.

Not sure if I will meet the criteria for being classified as Fired as the other half will still be working for another 5 or so years. I will however no longer be a slave chained to my cubicle.

Between the wife and I we currently have $925k in Super which we can start accessing in 17 years time. Outside super we have $185k invested, a house worth $1.1m with $102k owing it. And a half share in 2 small investment property that are currently paying for themselves and earning a small return.

Currently on a combined income of $270k and saving approximately 55%.

The goal for us is to pay off the house in the next 12 months and invest heavily in stocks outside Superannuation to fund the gap between fire and being able acces some of our superannuation.

The DW is 5 years younger so the plan is for me to fire and look after the home front (kids will be 4 and 6) while she works another 5 years approx (she actually likes work).

Iím looking forward to spending time with the kids as well as buying investment properties, fixing them up and renting them out. Canít wait!

Wow, congrats!  Same situation here re: younger wife who will work 5-7 years longer (but no kids for me to look after!!)

itchyfeet

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #946 on: July 25, 2018, 10:28:54 AM »
yeah, each to ones own.

DW has decided sheís not ready to never work again, but will take the opportunity of us being FI to decide how many days a year she works, and where she works.

I am undecided about my longer term future, but one step at a time.
1. FIRE
2. Travel
3. Repatriate
4. Take stock, and decide whatís next.

Iíd say 50/50 Iíll be back working within 12 months of FIRE.... I really have no idea today. But it will 100% be by choice either way. What a luxury.

DW was telling me the other day of her friend that canít make a dent in her $30K credit card debt. She is 40 and stuck barely servicing interest. So happy itís not us. Hopefully DWís friend will pick up some extra income to kill the debt soon.

Trifele

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #947 on: July 25, 2018, 01:39:30 PM »
Hi all,

Moving my Fire date forward from 2020 to 2019.

Not sure if I will meet the criteria for being classified as Fired as the other half will still be working for another 5 or so years. I will however no longer be a slave chained to my cubicle.

Between the wife and I we currently have $925k in Super which we can start accessing in 17 years time. Outside super we have $185k invested, a house worth $1.1m with $102k owing it. And a half share in 2 small investment property that are currently paying for themselves and earning a small return.

Currently on a combined income of $270k and saving approximately 55%.

The goal for us is to pay off the house in the next 12 months and invest heavily in stocks outside Superannuation to fund the gap between fire and being able acces some of our superannuation.

The DW is 5 years younger so the plan is for me to fire and look after the home front (kids will be 4 and 6) while she works another 5 years approx (she actually likes work).

Iím looking forward to spending time with the kids as well as buying investment properties, fixing them up and renting them out. Canít wait!

@Richmond 2020 -- I also meant to add that your plan is similar to what we've been doing.  For the past three years DH has been a SAHD, and is simultaneously doing a major re-build on our house.  It has worked out great for all of us.  I'm so glad he has had this time with the kids, and he has saved us tons of money on construction costs by using his amazing skills. 

sui generis

  • Bristles
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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #948 on: July 25, 2018, 02:18:06 PM »
As an update to my prior posts, I'm really almost to the point where I say goodbye here and join the 2018 cohort.  I am thinking about giving notice in a couple of weeks, but will almost certainly in any case not make it to Jan 1 2019.  I'll confirm when/if I should be taken off the list - I don't want to jinx it somehow by saying so yet.

I reworked my budget to live off 3.25% withdrawal rate - whether I do that or in practice end up using 3.5%, the exercise was calming to my nerves and made me feel less interested in the salary and bonus that would come if I stayed through 2/1/19.  I also am feeling a bit more open to doing some paid work, should it come my way, at some points over the next 2.5 decades.  I estimate that I need 15-20 more quarters (4-5 more years) to get some bit of Social Security, which wouldn't be a bad thing. [Aside - I know I should know how many quarters I have, but don't get me started on the ssa.gov website.  I'm trying to ignore the issues I had with it.  I'll have to actually go into an SSA office someday, I think.] Given that 2.5 decades ago, I'd never had a job at all, I remind myself I really have no idea how the next 25 years will go and working 1 year out of every 4-5 of those years to end up with 40 quarters...doesn't seem impossible.  Not gonna make getting Social Security a priority or anything, but glad for the reminder that I need to still be open-minded about my future.

Leaving in a couple days for a trip to Vancouver/remote work in Seattle for 9 days, and I'll decide then whether to give notice the very day I am back in my office or not.  But that's where my mind is right now.

Loren Ver

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Re: 2019 fire cohort
« Reply #949 on: July 25, 2018, 04:34:18 PM »
I'm not even sure I want to FIRE anymore...

Anytime I get a break of a few days without work, I see more clearly. I don't dislike work, I just dislike too much of it / not on my terms. I would prefer a very part-time arrangement. Or remote, because then I can make the arrangement myself.


I think a family can split a FIRE, why not.  Just because you are a team doesn't mean you have to play the same positions.
Would you say a couple can split a FIRE even for a long time, like 20 years? or only as a 1-2 year temporary measure

This goes to both of your sections.  No one says you need to retire.  Once you reach for FI date, so have the freedom to  do what you want.  If you don't need the money you have all the options!

My dad retired when he was about 40.  My mom loved to teach, but didn't like the politics, so she subbed at a small Lutheran school for last chance kids (works random days when they need her).  She just turned 70 and is still doing it (dad passed away about 10 years ago).  She doesn't do it for the money but the love of teaching (the pay is really low).   Does this mean my dad wasn't retired for 16 years before passing?  No, it just means they had different ideas about what was fun and how to spend their time. 

LV