Author Topic: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies  (Read 1158 times)

bryan995

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 116
2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« on: September 09, 2017, 11:24:18 PM »
Just an FYI for the few folks this might work out for.

Many utility companies are now offering a $10,000 rebate on 2017 Nissan Leaf and/or 2017 BMW i3.

The deal is quite attractive for the Leaf.
Some states have credits on top of the federal credit, and for the lucky few, there are even some county specific rebates!

Given that I am in SoCal, a potential deal for me looks like:

MSRP = $31,370 (2017 Leaf S)
SDG&E Discount (-$10,000) = $21,370
Dealer discount via email-negotiation (-$2,000) = $19,370
TTLD (+$1,714) = $21084 OTD
---
Federal Tax Credit (-$7500) = $13,584
CA State Tax Credit (-$2500) = $11,083

So a NET cost of $11,083 for a brand new 2017 Nissan Leaf S.
(plus one may be able to negotiate more than the $2000 off MSRP)

I have feeler emails out to 5 dealerships now.  The S seems to be in low supply currently, hoping they can manage to get their hands on a few and that I can negotiate a solid deal. 

$11K for a brand new car seems pretty awesome !

A few potential hiccups:

The CA state tax credit is now 'wait-listed', awaiting more tax-payer approved funding.

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng
"Funding is appropriated for the rebate project each year in the State Budget. FY 2016-17 funding will be exhausted before FY 2017-18 funds will be appropriated and allocated to the project.  As of June 30, 2017, only qualified lower-income applicants, as described here, will receive rebates. CVRP reserved $8 million for qualified lower-income applicants, thereby prioritizing payments to low- and moderate-income applicants in accordance with program requirements.  All other applicants will be placed on a rebate waitlist. Qualified applicants on the rebate waitlist will receive payment if the project receives more funding from the State of California."

Also for those taking the CA $2500 rebate, there is an income cap.
$150,000 for single filers, $204,000 for head-of-household filers, or $300,000 for joint filers.

Additional Reading:
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/6t2iif/live_in_san_diego_need_a_new_car_sdge_customers/
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=24356
https://slickdeals.net/f/10541248-extra-10k-off-2017-nissan-leaf-for-conedison-sdge-pseg-aep-comed-duke-green-mountain-power-srp-peco-rocky-mountain-power-bge-gp-and-ameren-customers?v=1
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 11:43:00 PM by bryan995 »

205guy

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2017, 04:02:13 AM »
I just wanted to confirm this rebate is real, my wife and I bought a 2017 Leaf S with it recently. Our cost was higher because the dealer said "you're getting 10k already, so no other rebates, and no 0% financing for you." Since there aren't any other dealers willing to sell Leafs in our area, we had to go along (and got 2% financing from our credit union--so should I pay that off or invest the money instead?).

We get no local incentives, only the federal 7500 tax credit, so I think our overall cost will be 16500 when we get the taxes done. That's about twice as much as a used Leaf, but you get a new car with 30kWh battery (130-mile range) at full capacity and warranty.

I get the impression that the utility company tie in is more of a marketing thing, you might be able to ask for and get the rebate even if there is no local utility sponsor. I'm pretty sure Nissan is clearing out the old models to make way for the newly announced second generation leafs (40 kWh and 150-200 mile range, with some auto-pilot features), so this rebate won't last, and only if the dealer can get the cars to sell. We ordered the car back in early July, and paid for and received it mid-August because of this--but bigger dealerships might have them on the lot to sell.

By the way, this is our second Leaf, we used to be a one-electric-car household, and now we are a two-car, all-electric household--we love electric cars, and the Leaf is a great car for the price.

Edited to add: next week is drive electric week, and there are test-drive events all over the country (we will be volunteering our 2 Leafs). Find one near you, and you'll see why so many electric car owners love their electrics.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 04:08:19 AM by 205guy »

soccerluvof4

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2616
  • Location: Artic Midwest
  • Retired at 50
Re: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2017, 04:47:03 AM »
of course my state isnt on the list yet!
" In life you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate"

kayvent

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 547
  • Location: Canada
Re: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2017, 06:03:57 AM »
Many people on this form pay ludicrously low income taxes in both percentages and absolute numbers. With that in mind, some of these credits can only be used in the tax year you purchase the car. As an illustration, if you only have a 2500$ Federal Income tax liability you'll only use 2500 of the credit and the other 5000 will vanish.

A lot of these tax credits are made to benefit large companies and wealthy individuals. You may not fully qualify for all of them as a result.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 10:48:13 AM by kayvent »

newton

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 155
Re: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2017, 10:22:33 AM »
How do you know if your state is on the list?

lbmustache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 767
Re: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2017, 11:09:37 AM »

Edited to add: next week is drive electric week, and there are test-drive events all over the country (we will be volunteering our 2 Leafs). Find one near you, and you'll see why so many electric car owners love their electrics.

This sounds fun! Is there a website I can check out?

bryan995

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 116
Re: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2017, 11:18:45 AM »
How do you know if your state is on the list?

It should be here.  At the bottom there is a place to enter your zip code.
https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng

Many people on this form pay ludicrously low income taxes in both percentages and absolute numbers. With that in mind, some of these credits can only be used in the tax year you purchase the car. As an illustration, if you only have a 2500$ Federal Income tax liability you'll only use 2500 of the credit and the other 5000 will vanish.

A lot of these tax credits are made to benefit large companies and wealthy individuals. You may not fully qualify for all of them as a result.

Yes exactly, you need to be sure you have at least a $7500 tax liability to take advantage of the full credit. 

One workaround to this is to increase your tax burden for the year you make your purchase.  One slick way is to initiate a 401K->ROTH conversion.
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6ejou4/a_tip_on_maximizing_your_ev_tax_credit/
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/3y2irq/federal_tax_liability_less_than_the_7500_credit/

In my case, even after all tax avoidance techniques, we still have > $7500 tax liability (and fall below the income cap), so we will be able to maximize the credit.  But it certainly benefits high-income earners more.  Though some counties/states do have special extra credits for lower-income HH...!

e.g.
"Consumers with household incomes less than or equal to 300 percent of the federal poverty level are eligible for an increased rebate amount as listed below.

Standard rebate amount** increased by $2,000

2017 Federal Poverty Level (FPL) Guidelines
Household Size      300% FPL
1   $36,180
2   $48,720
3   $61,260
4   $73,800
5   $86,340
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 11:30:26 AM by bryan995 »

205guy

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 01:01:13 AM »

Edited to add: next week is drive electric week, and there are test-drive events all over the country (we will be volunteering our 2 Leafs). Find one near you, and you'll see why so many electric car owners love their electrics.

This sounds fun! Is there a website I can check out?

Sorry for the delay, here is the website with a map and event search: https://driveelectricweek.org

I hope you find an event near you and get to go on a test drive. Electric cars are fun to drive: smooth, silent, and zippy.

kayvent

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 547
  • Location: Canada
Re: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 09:52:03 AM »
Something tricky I just thought about is that the Nissan Leaf isn't technically worth 31,370$. A new car loses 10% of its value the moment it leaves the lot. The Nissan Leaf, in OP's case, isn't like that. It loses 60% of its value the second it leaves the lot; no one will buy it from you even at 20K.

Making up terms for a moment, the "adjusted worth" of the car is close to 12.5K. I say that because 90% of that price would be the price you'd pay for a 1-minute old used Nissan Leaf. When you place it in terms of its resale price, the savings isn't as drastic. Perhaps the quality of the car is higher than a normal 11K car though. Just this economic view of things I found interesting to ponder.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 09:53:47 AM by kayvent »

205guy

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 08:33:29 PM »
Yes, the rebates and tax credits really confuse the true value of the car. That's why used leafs were selling for $8-10K after only a few years. That and Nissan had really low leasing plans as well, which again reflects the lower than MSRP true value. But all cars do this somewhat, when the next generation comes out, they discount the old generation models to get them off the lot. And if you bought one 6 months ago for full price, that's life.

But, that said, the leaf is a nice medium-ish hatchback with room for a family and cargo, good performance and handling, and it seems to have a decent maintenance record. Getting one with a full battery (130-140 mile range) for 16K is a great deal, and certainly the cheapest new electric on the US market. You can go cheaper buying used for less range, if less range fits your lifestyle. You still get all the benefits of electric, and a decent hatchback car.

bryan995

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 116
Re: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 10:56:11 PM »
Absolutely.  Having all of the tax-payer funded incentives/rebates totally conflates the true value of the car.  Right now, this works out to  something like MSRP - $20,000 ($10,000 utility, $7,500 deferral, $2,500 CA state).  States like CO have it best at MSRP - $22,500 ($10000 utility, $7500 federal, $5000 state).  On top of this, most dealers are also discounting $2000-$4000!  The rebates place an artificial ceiling on the car value, something that the buyer absorbs the moment the car leaves the lot.  I imagine one could play the arbitrage game here and buy in CO/CA and then re-sell in a state without a rebate, pocketing the difference.

Say I get into the car now for $11K net, and keep the car for 3 years, driving 30,000 miles.  After those 3 years, lets assume the car has lost $5,000 and is now only selling for only $6,000. ($6,000 for a 3 year old, 30k EV seems like quite a deal!)  Thats $5,000 lost over 3 years, or $138/mo cost, which is significantly better than most current lease deals. And given that there is also an artificial floor on the value of working-non-rat-infested-cars, I can see a 30k mile, 3 year old EV selling for > $6000.

https://www.kbb.com/nissan/leaf/2014/s-hatchback-4d/?vehicleid=395784&intent=buy-used&mileage=30000&condition=very-good&pricetype=private-party&persistedcondition=very-good&category=hatchback

If one can believe KBB in that a 3 year old, 30k mile EV will sell for $9k, thats $2K lost over 3 years, or $55/month effective cost!
If you also factor in the savings on gas compared to electric or the fact that the car comes with free charging for your first 2 years or that there is little to-no maintenance required the first few years, the math starts to work incredibly in your favor!
It almost seems too good to be true, not sure what I am missing :)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 02:43:35 PM by bryan995 »

205guy

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: 2017 Nissan Leaf (S) - Extra $10k rebate via utility companies
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 01:45:19 AM »
Thanks, Bryan, for doing the math both times.

Another way to look at it is that a medium hatch-back (4-door with room for back-seat adults) is sold for some average new value, say 20K compared to similar-sized cars. But because it is electric and has additional costs (design of new car, batteries, uphill marketing), not to mention profit, Nissan can only plan it, make it, and sell it for a higher amount, say 30K. That is where the federal and state incentives come in, to make the early adopter cost not too much more than the equivalent ICE car.

On the used resell market, only the utility and comparable ICE car value really matter, the development and early adopter costs are moot at that point. So those extra 10K are lost immediately no matter what. Essentially, the government is subsidizing the electric car maker for the R&D costs and marketing risks of new electric cars that can't compete directly with ICE cars--and are thus at a disadvantage. Of course, the government is hoping in the long run that electrics become cheap enough and advanced enough to compete on their own merits, and then that subsidy helped bring about reduced pollution/CO2, oil independence, and other benefits.

Now it's possible Nissan figured out how to make the Leaf for only 5K over the price of a 20K hatchback and pocketed the extra value assumed by the rebate. But again it is incentive and reward for brining new paradigms to the market that would really struggle otherwise.

Of course, when you compare an electric to an ICE car, you have to factor in issues like range and charging costs (on the negative side), and gasoline savings and maintenance savings (on the positive side), so it's not apples to apples. But this is why I believe the Leaf is a very mustachian car: with short commutes and sometimes flexible schedules, maybe even solar panels, the issues on the negative side can be addressed, and you're left with the positives--possibly making the Leaf the net cost effective winner. But again, it really depends on your specific situation, the cost and availability of new or used electric vehicles, and your location. Which is why I encourage people to go talk to other EV owners at the drive electric week events.