"Retirement speeds your aging. Don’t retire. It’s the most overrated thing ever"

[swampwiz]

This is some advice that a recently deceased man (age 90) had given one of his underlings:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/16/sean-payton-tom-benson-new-orleans-saints

[fattest_foot]

I'm not sure if the advice of a billionaire about retirement really holds any water for us regular folk.

His idea of retirement is probably vastly different than ours.

And it's also been said many times before, but the type of person who becomes that wealthy has a different drive than most normal people.

[Eric]

If my work was owing an NFL franchise, I'd probably never retire either.  Maybe I should just buy one...

[nick663]

This might be the first time I've heard of someone saying "I wish I had worked more" on their deathbed.

[big_slacker]

One of the keys to a long life is purpose. If someone's purpose is the company or team they've built it makes total sense. For this guy, retirement means removal of the thing that gets him out of bed pumped every morning.

[SC93]

Very common for us 'regular' folk to not like being retired. I tried it and didn't like it. I have several friends that don't want to retire. My one buddy (him & his family started a world wide sporting goods store) who has a very large farm and will probably never retire. My wife chose to not retire.

After a few weeks it got old for me and the longer I went, the worse it got so that's why I started another business that gave me a job so-to-speak.

[Penn42]

Not having read there link in the OP, but having read the comments here:

A common response when people find out I don't plan on "working" a full 30 year career is "what are you gonna do, sit around and waste away?". Which I think is so ridiculous.  Who in their right mind would ever just sit around and do nothing?  There are so many things I would persue that I currently cannot pursue because they take more time, consistency and regularity than holding a 40 hour/week, nearly 1/2 of your waking hours, job allows. 

The entire point of retiring in my mind is so I can work harder at the things I want to. Regardless of if they make money.

[FIRE47]

Not having read there link in the OP, but having read the comments here:

A common response when people find out I don't plan on "working" a full 30 year career is "what are you gonna do, sit around and waste away?". Which I think is so ridiculous.  Who in their right mind would ever just sit around and do nothing?  There are so many things I would persue that I currently cannot pursue because they take more time, consistency and regularity than holding a 40 hour/week, nearly 1/2 of your waking hours, job allows. 

The entire point of retiring in my mind is so I can work harder at the things I want to. Regardless of if they make money.

A lot of people unfortunately. It is actually very common for people just to sit do nothing and wallow in loneliness as they age.

[Psychstache]

Not having read there link in the OP, but having read the comments here:

A common response when people find out I don't plan on "working" a full 30 year career is "what are you gonna do, sit around and waste away?". Which I think is so ridiculous.  Who in their right mind would ever just sit around and do nothing?  There are so many things I would persue that I currently cannot pursue because they take more time, consistency and regularity than holding a 40 hour/week, nearly 1/2 of your waking hours, job allows. 

The entire point of retiring in my mind is so I can work harder at the things I want to. Regardless of if they make money.

A lot of people unfortunately. It is actually very common for people just to sit do nothing and wallow in loneliness as they age.

Sad fact. Where do you think Fox News gets it's ratings from?

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[DreamFIRE]

Not having read there link in the OP, but having read the comments here:

A common response when people find out I don't plan on "working" a full 30 year career is "what are you gonna do, sit around and waste away?".

30 years isn't even a "full" career for most people.  Figure age 22 to 67 is 45 years, so a 30 year career would actually be 15 years of early retirement.  And as Suzie recommends, many work to 70 or later.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/30/suze-orman-and-stanford-research-agree-70-is-the-new-retirement-age.html
There was actually a thread about that here at MMM a while back.

[Cassie]

I think it really varies among people if they just have tons of hobbies or if they still want to do some work. AFter retiring at 58 about 7 months into it I started teaching a college class which was totally different then anything I had ever done. 5 years later I love it. I know people that have so many hobbies that keeps them busy that they don't want to work.  Do what you want and don't have regrets.

[BlueMR2]

All I know is that when I was out of work for a few months that it was a glorious time.  I could do what I wanted when I wanted!  I *do* like the kind of work I do now.  However, I do not like having to do it for a prescribed 45 hour schedule which prevents me from doing many of the other things that I also like.

[wxdevil]

All I know is that when I was out of work for a few months that it was a glorious time.  I could do what I wanted when I wanted!  I *do* like the kind of work I do now.  However, I do not like having to do it for a prescribed 45 hour schedule which prevents me from doing many of the other things that I also like.

These are my exact feelings. I don't dislike the notion of working by itself. I dislike the notion of working when/where/how someone tells me I have to.

I was having a talk with a 90 year old family friend recently. He is a self-made multi-millionaire through a local business he started decades ago. He said the worst thing he did was retire (i.e., step away from his business) at age 75. It was interesting, because he's someone who lives life to the fullest, has a large family, etc. However, his working years probably differed vastly from the cubicle slaves that most of us are during our working years.

[Pedro Mustache]

The definitive answer is: It depends.

I'm an Airline Pilot. Despite a tremendous decrease in the quality of life and the terms and conditions over the last 20-30 years for most it was and still is an aspirational job. It's an addiction, an illness. Something that gets in ones blood and it's hard to get out.

I've seen a lot of recent retirees and up in the psychiatrists office inside a year of retirement. Mostly to do with loss of status, loss of identity, loss of purpose and also the lack of camaraderie that often goes with he job.

As it's a job with the most antisocial of antisocial work times, those doing it for a long time have to inhabit a world in parallel to the "civilian" world. Most hobbies, pastimes and sports revolve around weekends and office hours. Words that have no meaning in aviation. It makes it very tricky to have a collection of hobbies as mentioned above.

Many miss the job itself, one that took a lot of blood sweat and tears to attain and a lot of personal sacrifice along the way. 

The happiest ones I've seen are the ladies and gentlemen who work in simulator training into their 70's. The ones who have a nice stash. They are there because they want to, not because they have to. It ticks the boxes in paragraph three. You can do it part time, freelance basis as little as 5 days a month. They keep their hand in with something they enjoy, stay relevant and make some nice pocket money. That's what I am trying to achieve.

I find it upsetting to read on this forum about cubicle dwellers and office workers who hate their jobs every day. I've never felt that way about my current line of work. I've never had the Monday morning blues or not looked forward to returning to work after holidays. I count my blessings for that.

[mathlete]

An NFL Team owner offering up the advice "Don't retire:live a long time" is really ironic in the age of NFL players choosing to retire early with the looming specter of CTE and early onset dementia.

[Schaefer Light]

I don't think this applies to people (like me) who are bored out of their minds at work.

[mathlete]

I don't think this applies to people (like me) who are bored out of their minds at work.

Agree with this.

I have periods of intermittent high engagement at work. If that was me all the time, I'd have no issues working forever.

[ACyclist]

That guy lived to 90.  That seems to be a wonderful long life. 

I agree that you have to stay active.  These are choices.  You can't just sink into an abyss of loneliness and inactivity.  Volunteer, do a job you love, create, explore new things.  You would just be freed from a job that you are stuck in.  If you love your job, then maybe retirement may not keep you happy. 

Personally, I don't love pushing papers around.  I enjoy my job, but I don't love it.  I love being with my husband and riding bikes.  I plan to learn to fish, when we slow down. That will be fun, as our retirement home is on a river with lots of trout.

[bugbaby]

"Get to the point where you have the option to retire  (hello victims of 2009/outsourcing/illness, evil boss)  ...

then choose never to retire (from your cush overpaid flex hour passion-fulfilling job)!"

I think we here at MMM can all get on board with this advice.



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[pecunia]

 "Retirement speeds your aging.'

Don't retire don't be a jerk.
Yes, yes let's all head to work

Drivin' in the morning kind of a mess
Wonderful way to start the day's stress

Two cups of coffee and a donut or two
It's a great life that's good for you

Lucky days in the office ain't so rare.
Sittin' all day in my office chair

Days in the office love it just fine
Tryin' to make that impossible deadline

Wonderful company the people that I see
Sharin' the fact that they're as stressed out as me

Sittin' in the chair and what do I see
There's a computer looking right back at me

Workin' with it is sure a lot of fun,..
Number off passwords up to 71

Retirement speeds your aging
That won't be my thing.

Won't leave my computer, won't leave this tool
Don't take me for no FI fool,...

The bosses at work will be well served
With all this work, I'll surely be preserved

Makin' this money
I hear it go kaching kaching

It sure would be a crime
Not to work this overtime

More work more kaching kaching
And I tell you that's surely my thing.

Giving up the work just wouldn't be fair
So at the office, I'll die in my chair.

"Retirement speeds your aging,..........I don't think so.

[abhe8]

Eh... Let's not confuse causation with corolation. Yes, loss if retired folks are old with many physical health concerns they often die from. They are also old. It's more likely that OLD people are more likely to have health problems and die, and retiree s are usually old.

I also see lots of sad, lonely retired folks that just sit around. Don't be that guy. We all need a purpose, meaningful work to do. Doesn't have to be paid or even organized, but we need a purpose.

[swampwiz]

Not having read there link in the OP, but having read the comments here:

A common response when people find out I don't plan on "working" a full 30 year career is "what are you gonna do, sit around and waste away?". Which I think is so ridiculous.  Who in their right mind would ever just sit around and do nothing?  There are so many things I would persue that I currently cannot pursue because they take more time, consistency and regularity than holding a 40 hour/week, nearly 1/2 of your waking hours, job allows. 

The entire point of retiring in my mind is so I can work harder at the things I want to. Regardless of if they make money.

I find that the internet is the perfect sponge of free time.  It really is able to infinitely supply interesting things for me to read, and I have to push myself away lest it totally devours my available time.

[swampwiz]

Eh... Let's not confuse causation with corolation. Yes, loss if retired folks are old with many physical health concerns they often die from. They are also old. It's more likely that OLD people are more likely to have health problems and die, and retiree s are usually old.

I also see lots of sad, lonely retired folks that just sit around. Don't be that guy. We all need a purpose, meaningful work to do. Doesn't have to be paid or even organized, but we need a purpose.

Agreed.  I always read of folks who retire (or get themselves fired) and then die shortly afterward.  Think of America's favorite curmudgeon Andy Rooney of "60 Minutes", who retired and died a few years later.  John McLaughlin of "The McLaughlin Group" died a few days after missing his first show in who knows how long.  Coach Bear Bryant died a few weeks after finally retiring.  These folks retired because they were very sick; the retirement didn't cause them to die.

[DreamFIRE]

Agreed.  I always read of folks who retire (or get themselves fired) and then die shortly afterward.  Think of America's favorite curmudgeon Andy Rooney of "60 Minutes", who retired and died a few years later.  John McLaughlin of "The McLaughlin Group" died a few days after missing his first show in who knows how long.  Coach Bear Bryant died a few weeks after finally retiring.  These folks retired because they were very sick; the retirement didn't cause them to die.

McLcaughlin doesn't fit that mold.  He missed his first show due to illness, not because he was retiring.  They played some audio clips of him speaking for the show, and he was difficult to understand.  And then he died.  That might give someone more incentive to retire as opposed to working until their health fails them.

[Schaefer Light]

Eh... Let's not confuse causation with corolation. Yes, loss if retired folks are old with many physical health concerns they often die from. They are also old. It's more likely that OLD people are more likely to have health problems and die, and retiree s are usually old.

I also see lots of sad, lonely retired folks that just sit around. Don't be that guy. We all need a purpose, meaningful work to do. Doesn't have to be paid or even organized, but we need a purpose.

I disagree.  I think we need to learn to be okay with not having a purpose.

[mak1277]

Eh... Let's not confuse causation with corolation. Yes, loss if retired folks are old with many physical health concerns they often die from. They are also old. It's more likely that OLD people are more likely to have health problems and die, and retiree s are usually old.

I also see lots of sad, lonely retired folks that just sit around. Don't be that guy. We all need a purpose, meaningful work to do. Doesn't have to be paid or even organized, but we need a purpose.

I disagree.  I think we need to learn to be okay with not having a purpose.

Also disagree.  I certainly don't consider my job to be "a purpose".  The only reason I work is for money.

[FIRE Artist]

Eh... Let's not confuse causation with corolation. Yes, loss if retired folks are old with many physical health concerns they often die from. They are also old. It's more likely that OLD people are more likely to have health problems and die, and retiree s are usually old.

I also see lots of sad, lonely retired folks that just sit around. Don't be that guy. We all need a purpose, meaningful work to do. Doesn't have to be paid or even organized, but we need a purpose.

I disagree.  I think we need to learn to be okay with not having a purpose.

Also disagree.  I certainly don't consider my job to be "a purpose".  The only reason I work is for money.

I also don't think that we need a purpose in the classical "contribute to the greater good of society", kind of way, but most people would need some reason to get out of bed in the morning.  My reason will be to make art, and read books.  I am happy to make my post FIRE purpose to be a customer of the art supply store, and an audience for those people out there writing novels - without readers there would be no books.  As much as I find Fox News distasteful, if someone else wants to make it their life's purpose to watch Fox News, far be it for me to criticize. 

I also think that we can have a tendency to project our feelings onto other people, making judgement about them being lonely for example, how do you know they are lonely?  There is a difference between solitude and loneliness, the nuance of which extroverts really have a hard time wrapping their heads around. 

[FIRE Artist]

Most hobbies, pastimes and sports revolve around weekends and office hours. Words that have no meaning in aviation. It makes it very tricky to have a collection of hobbies as mentioned above.

Your idea of hobbies seems to be limited to social activities, you might consider expanding your awareness of what is out there. 

While having hobbies already lined up going into retirement is great, plenty of people don't start picking up hobbies until after they retire.  I don't see a lack of established hobbies prior to retirement to be a signal of impending FIRE doom. 

[DreamFIRE]

I've got at least a year until FIRE, but I've actually been making a list for FIRE, not a bucket list, but just things I'm interested in whether it's hobbies, activities, people I would like to see, places I would like to visit (or possibly relocate), etc., including things that I already do.  I always have these random ideas floating around in my mind about what I would like to do, but I like to get it documented and some structure to it, where I can add more info and as much detail as I want about anything I add, rather than just a basic list.   Video games and watching TV haven't made it on my list.

[living small]

I guess having enough money so you don't have to work gives us all the power of choice. I definitely know that my DH will work long after he has to...because he loves the comradery the challenges etc. I am happy not to go in if I don't have to.  I think the power of choice is an enormous force for good in anyone's life!

[markbike528CBX]

I've got at least a year until FIRE, but I've actually been making a list for FIRE, not a bucket list, but just things I'm interested in whether it's hobbies, activities, people I would like to see, places I would like to visit (or possibly relocate), etc., including things that I already do.....snip....

I've done those things [ list for FIRE, not a bucket list]  too.  A bucket list is a great set of one-time actions, but a FIRE  list can fill your day ( I hope, since I haven't FIRED yet).

[soccerluvof4]

If you love what your doing its not work as we have all heard how many times so this is really a shotty example. If I would of stayed working it would of killed me a lot younger than being fire'd.  Be miserable everyday to live longer doesn't add up to me.

[funobtainium]

Well, the point is to do what you want to do, and be free.

If you don't have any personal goals or dreams and you don't truly relish wanton leisure, sure, then retirement could be boring or downright bad for you, a stagnant pond of inactivity. Or boredom spending.

But if you have things you would rather do than work a 9-5 (who are we kidding...8-6) for a paycheck, then retirement can be amazing.

[jim555]

I need to get back to my soul sucking cubicle so I don't age.  No thanks.

[Hula Hoop]

I've noticed that some professions never seem to retire - academics for one- they seem to work until they drop.  I guess that's because what they do is their passion. 

I do agree up to a point but it depends on what you mean by "retire".  My grandmother lived past 100.  She was a housewife for most of her life but she was someone who never stopped moving.  I remember various family members arguing with her when she was in her 90s pruning bushes and trees in her backyard and other heavy gardening.  Working hard kept her going. 

[rocketpj]

My parents both retired at 55 with decent pensions.  15 years later they live nearby and I can't believe how busy they are - volunteering, sports, traveling, helping my kids.  Right now my dad 'works' for me on my FI business a few days a week.

I honestly think they are busier now that the last few years of their working lives, when us kids were gone and they had a farm and careers.  Lots of purpose as far as I can see.

[dmc]

My wife and I retired at 50.  That was 11 years ago for me.  I can’t imagine wanting to go back to work, and I had a good job, but now my time is my own.  We moved south so that we could spend even more time outdoors doing things we like, along with traveling. 

My only problem is the wife makes too many plans.  I can go golfing, flying , or shooting sporting clays if I chose.  Or I can piddle around the house.  My wife is involved in many social events at the club and local community.  Or if the weather is nice we can jump in the plane and go somewhere.   And there is always things to do with the grandkids.

I can’t imagine how anyone would rather toil away at work than have the time for themselves.

[Kyle Schuant]

This might be the first time I've heard of someone saying "I wish I had worked more" on their deathbed.

One of the peak times for risk of suicide for men is the 2-3 years after retirement.

Many guys spend 40-60 hours a week doing a job, then retire suddenly to 0 hours. "Shit, now what do I do with my day? Crosswords?" It's more prudent to gradually cut down the hours and let your life fill up with other stuff - or maybe never do those big hours at all. FIRE is in some respects misnamed; it's not really about being in a position to do nothing with your day, but being able to do what you choose with your day.

[swampwiz]

Agreed.  I always read of folks who retire (or get themselves fired) and then die shortly afterward.  Think of America's favorite curmudgeon Andy Rooney of "60 Minutes", who retired and died a few years later.  John McLaughlin of "The McLaughlin Group" died a few days after missing his first show in who knows how long.  Coach Bear Bryant died a few weeks after finally retiring.  These folks retired because they were very sick; the retirement didn't cause them to die.

McLcaughlin doesn't fit that mold.  He missed his first show due to illness, not because he was retiring.  They played some audio clips of him speaking for the show, and he was difficult to understand.  And then he died.  That might give someone more incentive to retire as opposed to working until their health fails them.

I didn't say McLaughlin retired.  He started sounding weaker & weaker, and then on his last show, he taped his parts of introducing the issues while his gang did their normal shtick.  Then he was completely gone the next show, and then he died a few weeks later.

[DreamFIRE]

Agreed.  I always read of folks who retire (or get themselves fired) and then die shortly afterward.  Think of America's favorite curmudgeon Andy Rooney of "60 Minutes", who retired and died a few years later.  John McLaughlin of "The McLaughlin Group" died a few days after missing his first show in who knows how long.  Coach Bear Bryant died a few weeks after finally retiring.  These folks retired because they were very sick; the retirement didn't cause them to die.

McLcaughlin doesn't fit that mold.  He missed his first show due to illness, not because he was retiring.  They played some audio clips of him speaking for the show, and he was difficult to understand.  And then he died.  That might give someone more incentive to retire as opposed to working until their health fails them.

I didn't say McLaughlin retired.

You mentioned people who retire and die shortly afterwards and listed him as an example.

introducing the issues while his gang did their normal shtick.  Then he was completely gone the next show, and then he died a few weeks later.

No, they recorded the show with just his voice, and then he died just 4 days later, not weeks later.   So he doesn't fit the pattern of people retiring early and dying, but just the opposite, it should give people more incentive to retire while they are still in good health.

[albireo13]

The point about retirement is spending the time doing the things YOU want to do, as opposed to what some organization wants you to do.

If you choose otherwise, don't come whining to us.

[Erica]

I know myself well and to retire would be the death of me.

I enjoy working and see a purpose in it. At least p/t.

Luckily everyone is different and there is no wrong or right answer

Even when statistics show retired folks seem to fare far worse than the ones who continue working

[sherr]

Eh... Let's not confuse causation with corolation. Yes, loss if retired folks are old with many physical health concerns they often die from. They are also old. It's more likely that OLD people are more likely to have health problems and die, and retiree s are usually old.

I also see lots of sad, lonely retired folks that just sit around. Don't be that guy. We all need a purpose, meaningful work to do. Doesn't have to be paid or even organized, but we need a purpose.

Agreed.  I always read of folks who retire (or get themselves fired) and then die shortly afterward.  Think of America's favorite curmudgeon Andy Rooney of "60 Minutes", who retired and died a few years later.  John McLaughlin of "The McLaughlin Group" died a few days after missing his first show in who knows how long.  Coach Bear Bryant died a few weeks after finally retiring.  These folks retired because they were very sick; the retirement didn't cause them to die.

McLcaughlin doesn't fit that mold.  He missed his first show due to illness, not because he was retiring.  They played some audio clips of him speaking for the show, and he was difficult to understand.  And then he died.  That might give someone more incentive to retire as opposed to working until their health fails them.

I didn't say McLaughlin retired.

You mentioned people who retire and die shortly afterwards and listed him as an example.

introducing the issues while his gang did their normal shtick.  Then he was completely gone the next show, and then he died a few weeks later.

No, they recorded the show with just his voice, and then he died just 4 days later, not weeks later.   So he doesn't fit the pattern of people retiring early and dying, but just the opposite, it should give people more incentive to retire while they are still in good health.

It was perhaps not well worded, but swampwiz is agreeing with you.

[Rosy]

My answer is, "speak for yourself, old man".:)
I'll even go one step further and say I pity people who have no idea what to do with themselves if they are not working in a real job or run their own business.
Is that really all you think there is to life?

Why the hell are people so afraid to let go of one part of their lives and move on? I understand what it is to be a driven individual with a thriving business or a comfortable, well set up career and decide to continue on because you can and you enjoy it.
If you are passionate and fulfilled and have something to give to society by staying in your field, more power to you!

But, let's get real, the majority of the people stay in their job, because they have to or they have no clue what else to do. They are afraid of change and/or afraid their money might run out or afraid to suddenly be home with a life partner they should have divorced years ago.

As far as the MMM way of life, just look at Mr. MM - he retired from the working world and then re-entered on his own terms. He isn't bored with his life he continues the journey, exploring different things. That is a quality early retirement!

We are all wired differently.
I've easily crammed five lifetimes in this one life and I was damn well ready to let go and relax. Three years in, there are still tons of things I want to do and there is still so much to see and experience, but I can assure you of one thing the (real:) working world is not one of them. Thanks, but no thanks!

[Rosy]

I know myself well and to retire would be the death of me.

I enjoy working and see a purpose in it. At least p/t.

Luckily everyone is different and there is no wrong or right answer

Even when statistics show retired folks seem to fare far worse than the ones who continue working

I think that is exactly the fallacy, people work themselves to death, so by the time they finally do retire there isn't much living left for them to do.
Besides, how you feel about things in your 40s and 50s may be dramatically different.
Never say never, you may well change your mind by the time you reach the ripe old age of 60 or beyond.

[gerardc]

Even when statistics show retired folks seem to fare far worse than the ones who continue working

I don't know if working longer makes them healthier or if being healthier allows them to work longer. Without a controlled experiment, that's pretty hard to know.

[Erica]

Rosy says- I think that is exactly the fallacy, people work themselves to death, so by the time they finally do retire there isn't much living left for them to do.
Besides, how you feel about things in your 40s and 50s may be dramatically different.
Never say never, you may well change your mind by the time you reach the ripe old age of 60 or beyond.
I completely agree. My Father did this, so sad.
But it was partially to avoid being home with my Mother
Yes anyone can change their mind, so true.
Much of it depends upon how much you like your job

[Erica]

Even when statistics show retired folks seem to fare far worse than the ones who continue working

I don't know if working longer makes them healthier or if being healthier allows them to work longer. Without a controlled experiment, that's pretty hard to know.

It's probably  both