Author Topic: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?  (Read 13011 times)

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #200 on: January 30, 2019, 12:13:46 PM »
The only aspect that I would comment on that generates concern is whether the birth mother/surrogate would be around to nurse the baby and nurture it in infancy.   I realize that many infants aren't breastfed and many don't have their mother present but to intentionally exclude that part of the bonding, feeding and mothering for lack of a better word, would seem sad to me.

I wasnít breastfed. Neither were any siblings or cousins or parents. Lots of people I grew up with werenít breastfed. I have friends who canít breastfeed for various reasons. I would still feed the kid and weíd bond. Iíve been told there are also milk banks, but formula will be fine and has its own advantages.

I also meant and obviously didn't express this well, that excluding a mother from the infant's life, intentionally due to your current situation, seems sad to me.
Again, JMHO.

Sure. Thereís lots of things that are sad: infertility, losing babies, marriages crumbling under the weight, watching families with 2 parents hurt and abuse children, men abandoning women and letting children grow up fatherless, etc. I could wallow in the sadness or I could do act. I could look at how to get the tummy mummy involved, or ensure there are plenty of women around who love my kid, and ensure I love my kid and Iím present the child every day. I can do something about the sadness. Will life be perfect? Nope, no one gets a perfect life. No one. I can choose to the best parent I can be every day. Thatís what matters.

Malkynn

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #201 on: January 30, 2019, 12:27:17 PM »
The only aspect that I would comment on that generates concern is whether the birth mother/surrogate would be around to nurse the baby and nurture it in infancy.   I realize that many infants aren't breastfed and many don't have their mother present but to intentionally exclude that part of the bonding, feeding and mothering for lack of a better word, would seem sad to me.

I wasnít breastfed. Neither were any siblings or cousins or parents. Lots of people I grew up with werenít breastfed. I have friends who canít breastfeed for various reasons. I would still feed the kid and weíd bond. Iíve been told there are also milk banks, but formula will be fine and has its own advantages.

I also meant and obviously didn't express this well, that excluding a mother from the infant's life, intentionally due to your current situation, seems sad to me.
Again, JMHO.

Sure. Thereís lots of things that are sad: infertility, losing babies, marriages crumbling under the weight, watching families with 2 parents hurt and abuse children, men abandoning women and letting children grow up fatherless, etc. I could wallow in the sadness or I could do act. I could look at how to get the tummy mummy involved, or ensure there are plenty of women around who love my kid, and ensure I love my kid and Iím present the child every day. I can do something about the sadness. Will life be perfect? Nope, no one gets a perfect life. No one. I can choose to the best parent I can be every day. Thatís what matters.

A-fuckin-men

For some reason, you are being held to a higher standard than most people who choose to reproduce P-in-V style.

I've seen countless cases of people having babies in circumstances that would be considered "sad" or "tragic" and yet nobody really thinks much of it because babies were conceived in loooooooooooooove or whatever. 

Bitches gonna judge.

Be a crazy good dad, hope your kid doesn't end up a serial killer or something, and don't worry too much about the opinions of people on the internet.
Sane parents don't do that...they just feel guilty about everything in general...always...yeah...you're kind of fucked.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #202 on: January 30, 2019, 02:33:41 PM »
The only aspect that I would comment on that generates concern is whether the birth mother/surrogate would be around to nurse the baby and nurture it in infancy.   I realize that many infants aren't breastfed and many don't have their mother present but to intentionally exclude that part of the bonding, feeding and mothering for lack of a better word, would seem sad to me.

I wasnít breastfed. Neither were any siblings or cousins or parents. Lots of people I grew up with werenít breastfed. I have friends who canít breastfeed for various reasons. I would still feed the kid and weíd bond. Iíve been told there are also milk banks, but formula will be fine and has its own advantages.

I also meant and obviously didn't express this well, that excluding a mother from the infant's life, intentionally due to your current situation, seems sad to me.
Again, JMHO.

Sure. Thereís lots of things that are sad: infertility, losing babies, marriages crumbling under the weight, watching families with 2 parents hurt and abuse children, men abandoning women and letting children grow up fatherless, etc. I could wallow in the sadness or I could do act. I could look at how to get the tummy mummy involved, or ensure there are plenty of women around who love my kid, and ensure I love my kid and Iím present the child every day. I can do something about the sadness. Will life be perfect? Nope, no one gets a perfect life. No one. I can choose to the best parent I can be every day. Thatís what matters.

A-fuckin-men

For some reason, you are being held to a higher standard than most people who choose to reproduce P-in-V style.

I've seen countless cases of people having babies in circumstances that would be considered "sad" or "tragic" and yet nobody really thinks much of it because babies were conceived in loooooooooooooove or whatever. 

Bitches gonna judge.

Be a crazy good dad, hope your kid doesn't end up a serial killer or something, and don't worry too much about the opinions of people on the internet.
Sane parents don't do that...they just feel guilty about everything in general...always...yeah...you're kind of fucked.

Lol, thanks. Seeing how a lot of serial killers come from traditional 2 parent homes, Iíve got a pretty good chance mine should beat the odds. ;-)

lhamo

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #203 on: January 30, 2019, 02:54:18 PM »
I opened up Facebook yesterday to see the sad news that an old high school friend is dying from an inoperable blood clot on his brain.  I haven't seen him for over 30 years in person, but he was one of the biggest, most joyful personalities I ever encountered.  And I watched him meet and marry his lovely wife and raise their young daughter (she is only 4 now) over the past few years on Facebook, and that was clearly the most joyous period of his life.  I can't believe how much pain they must be in to lose him.  But they had him, and he them, for those beautiful years.

My own dad died at age 52.  Yes, the loss is unbearable, but loss is part of life.

I hope you have a child, and cherish them. 

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #204 on: January 30, 2019, 04:08:20 PM »
I opened up Facebook yesterday to see the sad news that an old high school friend is dying from an inoperable blood clot on his brain.  I haven't seen him for over 30 years in person, but he was one of the biggest, most joyful personalities I ever encountered.  And I watched him meet and marry his lovely wife and raise their young daughter (she is only 4 now) over the past few years on Facebook, and that was clearly the most joyous period of his life.  I can't believe how much pain they must be in to lose him.  But they had him, and he them, for those beautiful years.

My own dad died at age 52.  Yes, the loss is unbearable, but loss is part of life.

I hope you have a child, and cherish them.

How horrible. No one is promised tomorrow, so yes, make the most out of today.

mbl

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #205 on: January 31, 2019, 07:02:03 AM »
The only aspect that I would comment on that generates concern is whether the birth mother/surrogate would be around to nurse the baby and nurture it in infancy.   I realize that many infants aren't breastfed and many don't have their mother present but to intentionally exclude that part of the bonding, feeding and mothering for lack of a better word, would seem sad to me.

I wasnít breastfed. Neither were any siblings or cousins or parents. Lots of people I grew up with werenít breastfed. I have friends who canít breastfeed for various reasons. I would still feed the kid and weíd bond. Iíve been told there are also milk banks, but formula will be fine and has its own advantages.

I also meant and obviously didn't express this well, that excluding a mother from the infant's life, intentionally due to your current situation, seems sad to me.
Again, JMHO.

Sure. Thereís lots of things that are sad: infertility, losing babies, marriages crumbling under the weight, watching families with 2 parents hurt and abuse children, men abandoning women and letting children grow up fatherless, etc. I could wallow in the sadness or I could do act. I could look at how to get the tummy mummy involved, or ensure there are plenty of women around who love my kid, and ensure I love my kid and Iím present the child every day. I can do something about the sadness. Will life be perfect? Nope, no one gets a perfect life. No one. I can choose to the best parent I can be every day. Thatís what matters.

A-fuckin-men

For some reason, you are being held to a higher standard than most people who choose to reproduce P-in-V style.

I've seen countless cases of people having babies in circumstances that would be considered "sad" or "tragic" and yet nobody really thinks much of it because babies were conceived in loooooooooooooove or whatever. 

Bitches gonna judge.

Be a crazy good dad, hope your kid doesn't end up a serial killer or something, and don't worry too much about the opinions of people on the internet.
Sane parents don't do that...they just feel guilty about everything in general...always...yeah...you're kind of fucked.

From the OP:
"Anyways, love your thoughts, but please be gentle as this is quite personal and sensitive and Iím not looking at getting into an argument with anyone. If you canít have kids and you want them, it sucks so much you wouldnít believe it. "

The OP asked for thoughts.  I didn't attack him, I didn't curse at him, I didn't denigrate him.  I gave my thoughts.
The opinion, or judgement or thoughts, as he included above was how he was framing the discussion.

Now, obviously, he doesn't agree and perhaps doesn't want to hear any thoughts that might point out a downside such as that which I shared.
But, he has opened it up in a public forum and is bound to get opinions that are different than his own.
Again, I constructed my response as respectfully as possible considering that I was presenting something that is what I consider a major flaw in his plan.
A pre-meditated choice.   Not equivalent to some of the examples that he gave which are circumstances often well beyond the control of the individual(loss of a child, infertility, domestic abuse, death, etc....)

I would hope that one could have a reasonable discourse here but your best response was:
Quote
Bitches gonna judge.

One will just have to consider the source.....






Malkynn

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #206 on: January 31, 2019, 07:21:17 AM »
The only aspect that I would comment on that generates concern is whether the birth mother/surrogate would be around to nurse the baby and nurture it in infancy.   I realize that many infants aren't breastfed and many don't have their mother present but to intentionally exclude that part of the bonding, feeding and mothering for lack of a better word, would seem sad to me.

I wasnít breastfed. Neither were any siblings or cousins or parents. Lots of people I grew up with werenít breastfed. I have friends who canít breastfeed for various reasons. I would still feed the kid and weíd bond. Iíve been told there are also milk banks, but formula will be fine and has its own advantages.

I also meant and obviously didn't express this well, that excluding a mother from the infant's life, intentionally due to your current situation, seems sad to me.
Again, JMHO.

Sure. Thereís lots of things that are sad: infertility, losing babies, marriages crumbling under the weight, watching families with 2 parents hurt and abuse children, men abandoning women and letting children grow up fatherless, etc. I could wallow in the sadness or I could do act. I could look at how to get the tummy mummy involved, or ensure there are plenty of women around who love my kid, and ensure I love my kid and Iím present the child every day. I can do something about the sadness. Will life be perfect? Nope, no one gets a perfect life. No one. I can choose to the best parent I can be every day. Thatís what matters.

A-fuckin-men

For some reason, you are being held to a higher standard than most people who choose to reproduce P-in-V style.

I've seen countless cases of people having babies in circumstances that would be considered "sad" or "tragic" and yet nobody really thinks much of it because babies were conceived in loooooooooooooove or whatever. 

Bitches gonna judge.

Be a crazy good dad, hope your kid doesn't end up a serial killer or something, and don't worry too much about the opinions of people on the internet.
Sane parents don't do that...they just feel guilty about everything in general...always...yeah...you're kind of fucked.

From the OP:
"Anyways, love your thoughts, but please be gentle as this is quite personal and sensitive and Iím not looking at getting into an argument with anyone. If you canít have kids and you want them, it sucks so much you wouldnít believe it. "

The OP asked for thoughts.  I didn't attack him, I didn't curse at him, I didn't denigrate him.  I gave my thoughts.
The opinion, or judgement or thoughts, as he included above was how he was framing the discussion.

Now, obviously, he doesn't agree and perhaps doesn't want to hear any thoughts that might point out a downside such as that which I shared.
But, he has opened it up in a public forum and is bound to get opinions that are different than his own.
Again, I constructed my response as respectfully as possible considering that I was presenting something that is what I consider a major flaw in his plan.
A pre-meditated choice.   Not equivalent to some of the examples that he gave which are circumstances often well beyond the control of the individual(loss of a child, infertility, domestic abuse, death, etc....)

I would hope that one could have a reasonable discourse here but your best response was:
Quote
Bitches gonna judge.

One will just have to consider the source.....

Sorry to offend.
"Bitches gonna judge" is one of my catch phrases said generally to mean that no matter what decisions one makes that they will be judged by people, so trying to avoid judgement is impossible and pointless.

For what it's worth I do think your input was well written and thoughtful and valuable, and I don't find your posts to be overly judgemental at all. Also, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't important to hear and consider.

My response is more a general criticism of the fact that society will seem hold him to a much higher standard than couples who have children in all sorts of circumstances.

I could have been more thoughtful of how you would read my reply and said something like "this is not an attack on pp, as they have posted an opinion I disagree with rather thoughtfully and it's worth seeing this from both sides" but I admittedly wasn't thinking of you, I was just thinking of OP when I replied, which was inconsiderate on my part since I quoted you.

I might be a bitch, but I'm not a total bitch, so I'm sorry.

mbl

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #207 on: January 31, 2019, 07:28:57 AM »
All good....thanks for your reply....

lexde

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #208 on: January 31, 2019, 08:13:52 AM »
Is there a way to DIY surrogacy? Without going through an agency and contracting directly with the surrogate? It may be exponentially cheaper to go that route, but I don’t know the legal implications.

I have colleagues who practice surrogacy law, so depending on your state I may be able to get some names/referrals for you (I have an extended network I can reach out to, too). DM me if that’s something you’d like me to look into for you.

Good luck.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #209 on: January 31, 2019, 11:34:40 AM »
Is there a way to DIY surrogacy? Without going through an agency and contracting directly with the surrogate? It may be exponentially cheaper to go that route, but I donít know the legal implications.

I have colleagues who practice surrogacy law, so depending on your state I may be able to get some names/referrals for you (I have an extended network I can reach out to, too). DM me if thatís something youíd like me to look into for you.

Good luck.

Thank you and I might take you up on that. Iíd be quite concerned about the DIY route only because of the various complexities and this isnít the type of thing you want to mess up. It also would require me finding on my own a donor and surrogate, the clinics and then all of the legal work to be coordinated. Some surrogacy centers have a DIY type of service where they will consult with you and help you along, it might save around $20-40k. I think if I do this I have to go all in and not really get hung up on the cost, itís incredibly expensive. The only way I know how to make it cheaper would mean losing knowing who the tummy mommy is and that connection and I think I want that so the kid feels some connection.

lexde

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #210 on: January 31, 2019, 11:39:47 AM »
Is there a way to DIY surrogacy? Without going through an agency and contracting directly with the surrogate? It may be exponentially cheaper to go that route, but I don’t know the legal implications.

I have colleagues who practice surrogacy law, so depending on your state I may be able to get some names/referrals for you (I have an extended network I can reach out to, too). DM me if that’s something you’d like me to look into for you.

Good luck.

Thank you and I might take you up on that. I’d be quite concerned about the DIY route only because of the various complexities and this isn’t the type of thing you want to mess up. It also would require me finding on my own a donor and surrogate, the clinics and then all of the legal work to be coordinated. Some surrogacy centers have a DIY type of service where they will consult with you and help you along, it might save around $20-40k. I think if I do this I have to go all in and not really get hung up on the cost, it’s incredibly expensive. The only way I know how to make it cheaper would mean losing knowing who the tummy mommy is and that connection and I think I want that so the kid feels some connection.
That makes sense. I think even within your parameters you have some wiggle room. Depending on whether you want the donor to be a specific person and/or separate from the surrogate. There are a lot of lower income women who have easy births who enjoy being pregnant that you could look for (they exist!) if you wanted to go that route for a lot less than you’d think. Some even live with you as part of the contract, if you want to go that far (they get free room and board, and you get to see they’re healthy and eating well). Even without that, I’d consult with a surrogacy lawyer too just to make sure you’re preserving all of your rights from the get-go.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #211 on: January 31, 2019, 11:43:32 AM »
The only aspect that I would comment on that generates concern is whether the birth mother/surrogate would be around to nurse the baby and nurture it in infancy.   I realize that many infants aren't breastfed and many don't have their mother present but to intentionally exclude that part of the bonding, feeding and mothering for lack of a better word, would seem sad to me.

I wasnít breastfed. Neither were any siblings or cousins or parents. Lots of people I grew up with werenít breastfed. I have friends who canít breastfeed for various reasons. I would still feed the kid and weíd bond. Iíve been told there are also milk banks, but formula will be fine and has its own advantages.

I also meant and obviously didn't express this well, that excluding a mother from the infant's life, intentionally due to your current situation, seems sad to me.
Again, JMHO.

Sure. Thereís lots of things that are sad: infertility, losing babies, marriages crumbling under the weight, watching families with 2 parents hurt and abuse children, men abandoning women and letting children grow up fatherless, etc. I could wallow in the sadness or I could do act. I could look at how to get the tummy mummy involved, or ensure there are plenty of women around who love my kid, and ensure I love my kid and Iím present the child every day. I can do something about the sadness. Will life be perfect? Nope, no one gets a perfect life. No one. I can choose to the best parent I can be every day. Thatís what matters.

A-fuckin-men

For some reason, you are being held to a higher standard than most people who choose to reproduce P-in-V style.

I've seen countless cases of people having babies in circumstances that would be considered "sad" or "tragic" and yet nobody really thinks much of it because babies were conceived in loooooooooooooove or whatever. 

Bitches gonna judge.

Be a crazy good dad, hope your kid doesn't end up a serial killer or something, and don't worry too much about the opinions of people on the internet.
Sane parents don't do that...they just feel guilty about everything in general...always...yeah...you're kind of fucked.

From the OP:
"Anyways, love your thoughts, but please be gentle as this is quite personal and sensitive and Iím not looking at getting into an argument with anyone. If you canít have kids and you want them, it sucks so much you wouldnít believe it. "

The OP asked for thoughts.  I didn't attack him, I didn't curse at him, I didn't denigrate him.  I gave my thoughts.
The opinion, or judgement or thoughts, as he included above was how he was framing the discussion.

Now, obviously, he doesn't agree and perhaps doesn't want to hear any thoughts that might point out a downside such as that which I shared.
But, he has opened it up in a public forum and is bound to get opinions that are different than his own.
Again, I constructed my response as respectfully as possible considering that I was presenting something that is what I consider a major flaw in his plan.
A pre-meditated choice.   Not equivalent to some of the examples that he gave which are circumstances often well beyond the control of the individual(loss of a child, infertility, domestic abuse, death, etc....)

I would hope that one could have a reasonable discourse here but your best response was:
Quote
Bitches gonna judge.

One will just have to consider the source.....

Iím not quite sure what would motivate you to write that I perhaps donít want to hear any thoughts thst point out a downside. I clearly heard you and responded. Just because I have a response that doesnít confirm with your thinking doesnít mean you werenít heard, it just means I didnít agree with you. I appreciate all opinions and feedback, and the fact that people are taking time from their very busy days to assist me with my issue. Iím still working through this and trying to figure out whatís best, for everyone thst would be affected. Youíve expressed a great deal of sadness at the potential decisions I might make. I get that.  Iím fortunate though to not have to live with your sadness. Whatever decision I make, it will be as thought out as I can make it, and I am comfortable with that level of responsibility and commitment.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #212 on: January 31, 2019, 11:48:39 AM »
Is there a way to DIY surrogacy? Without going through an agency and contracting directly with the surrogate? It may be exponentially cheaper to go that route, but I donít know the legal implications.

I have colleagues who practice surrogacy law, so depending on your state I may be able to get some names/referrals for you (I have an extended network I can reach out to, too). DM me if thatís something youíd like me to look into for you.

Good luck.

Thank you and I might take you up on that. Iíd be quite concerned about the DIY route only because of the various complexities and this isnít the type of thing you want to mess up. It also would require me finding on my own a donor and surrogate, the clinics and then all of the legal work to be coordinated. Some surrogacy centers have a DIY type of service where they will consult with you and help you along, it might save around $20-40k. I think if I do this I have to go all in and not really get hung up on the cost, itís incredibly expensive. The only way I know how to make it cheaper would mean losing knowing who the tummy mommy is and that connection and I think I want that so the kid feels some connection.
That makes sense. I think even within your parameters you have some wiggle room. Depending on whether you want the donor to be a specific person and/or separate from the surrogate. There are a lot of lower income women who have easy births who enjoy being pregnant that you could look for (they exist!) if you wanted to go that route for a lot less than youíd think. Some even live with you as part of the contract, if you want to go that far (they get free room and board, and you get to see theyíre healthy and eating well). Even without that, Iíd consult with a surrogacy lawyer too just to make sure youíre preserving all of your rights from the get-go.

Thank you, much appreciated. Those are great suggestions although I donít live in the US currently and that would require moving or bringing the person to me, which has so many issues and have to make sure nothing is construed as human trafficking. As mentioned, for a variety of reasons, all the easy and affordable routes are closed to me. Fortunately I have the means to still go down this path, if I want. It would be great to have some surrogacy contacts.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #213 on: January 31, 2019, 11:50:53 AM »
The only aspect that I would comment on that generates concern is whether the birth mother/surrogate would be around to nurse the baby and nurture it in infancy.   I realize that many infants aren't breastfed and many don't have their mother present but to intentionally exclude that part of the bonding, feeding and mothering for lack of a better word, would seem sad to me.

I wasnít breastfed. Neither were any siblings or cousins or parents. Lots of people I grew up with werenít breastfed. I have friends who canít breastfeed for various reasons. I would still feed the kid and weíd bond. Iíve been told there are also milk banks, but formula will be fine and has its own advantages.

I also meant and obviously didn't express this well, that excluding a mother from the infant's life, intentionally due to your current situation, seems sad to me.
Again, JMHO.

Sure. Thereís lots of things that are sad: infertility, losing babies, marriages crumbling under the weight, watching families with 2 parents hurt and abuse children, men abandoning women and letting children grow up fatherless, etc. I could wallow in the sadness or I could do act. I could look at how to get the tummy mummy involved, or ensure there are plenty of women around who love my kid, and ensure I love my kid and Iím present the child every day. I can do something about the sadness. Will life be perfect? Nope, no one gets a perfect life. No one. I can choose to the best parent I can be every day. Thatís what matters.

A-fuckin-men

For some reason, you are being held to a higher standard than most people who choose to reproduce P-in-V style.

I've seen countless cases of people having babies in circumstances that would be considered "sad" or "tragic" and yet nobody really thinks much of it because babies were conceived in loooooooooooooove or whatever. 

Bitches gonna judge.

Be a crazy good dad, hope your kid doesn't end up a serial killer or something, and don't worry too much about the opinions of people on the internet.
Sane parents don't do that...they just feel guilty about everything in general...always...yeah...you're kind of fucked.

From the OP:
"Anyways, love your thoughts, but please be gentle as this is quite personal and sensitive and Iím not looking at getting into an argument with anyone. If you canít have kids and you want them, it sucks so much you wouldnít believe it. "

The OP asked for thoughts.  I didn't attack him, I didn't curse at him, I didn't denigrate him.  I gave my thoughts.
The opinion, or judgement or thoughts, as he included above was how he was framing the discussion.

Now, obviously, he doesn't agree and perhaps doesn't want to hear any thoughts that might point out a downside such as that which I shared.
But, he has opened it up in a public forum and is bound to get opinions that are different than his own.
Again, I constructed my response as respectfully as possible considering that I was presenting something that is what I consider a major flaw in his plan.
A pre-meditated choice.   Not equivalent to some of the examples that he gave which are circumstances often well beyond the control of the individual(loss of a child, infertility, domestic abuse, death, etc....)

I would hope that one could have a reasonable discourse here but your best response was:
Quote
Bitches gonna judge.

One will just have to consider the source.....

Sorry to offend.
"Bitches gonna judge" is one of my catch phrases said generally to mean that no matter what decisions one makes that they will be judged by people, so trying to avoid judgement is impossible and pointless.

For what it's worth I do think your input was well written and thoughtful and valuable, and I don't find your posts to be overly judgemental at all. Also, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that what you are saying isn't important to hear and consider.

My response is more a general criticism of the fact that society will seem hold him to a much higher standard than couples who have children in all sorts of circumstances.

I could have been more thoughtful of how you would read my reply and said something like "this is not an attack on pp, as they have posted an opinion I disagree with rather thoughtfully and it's worth seeing this from both sides" but I admittedly wasn't thinking of you, I was just thinking of OP when I replied, which was inconsiderate on my part since I quoted you.

I might be a bitch, but I'm not a total bitch, so I'm sorry.

I love your advice and support and donít find it bitchy at all. It reminds me that there will be people in my corner passionately supporting me even when it feels like the world is against me. Thatís a nice feeling.

Poundwise

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #214 on: January 31, 2019, 02:16:11 PM »
I didn't read all 5 pages of this thread yet, but let me speak from the the following vantage points:
- a close relative went through IVF and had twins in her 50s. She's married but sole breadwinner, was very tired, but things seem to be settling down. 
- my best friend went the sperm bank route at age 42.  She is now considering having another at age 48.
-  I had children at ages 33, 39, and 43. Energy is definitely lower, but we're a lot better off than when we had our first child.

Some questions/thoughts:
- How big and supportive is your extended family? My single mom friend is well off and has a good job, but she has a very small family, and basically she is leaning on her single older brother as a backup.  However, she is determined to have another child, mostly for the sake of her first child. She doesn't want him to be alone in the world when she passes.

- On the subject of extended family, a possible minus to not raising a child with a partner is less extended family... fewer cousins, uncles, aunts, grandparents to play with or spoil your child.  Cousins often play important roles with an only child. If your network is not big, you need to start building up a group of friends as additional mentors and supports for your child.

- On the other hand, my single mom friend (who is divorced but her ex has no relation to her child) clearly relishes not having to deal with in-laws of any sort.

- An advantage you have in being an older single father, is that childbirth will not wreak havoc on your older body. 

- You may not get the kind of kid you thought you would get. And children become adults soon enough.  You may be nodding now and thinking "I know that", but you really don't know until you live it!    Could you do well with living with a young adult who doesn't share your interests or think the way you do-- in fact, seems to go out of his way to be the opposite of you?

- On a more positive note, whatever you do, you're probably not going to regret raising a child. Few people seem to do so. And most people don't consider all this stuff before they become parents, and yet they do, so you'll be ahead of the game.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #215 on: February 01, 2019, 02:09:23 AM »
I didn't read all 5 pages of this thread yet, but let me speak from the the following vantage points:
- a close relative went through IVF and had twins in her 50s. She's married but sole breadwinner, was very tired, but things seem to be settling down. 
- my best friend went the sperm bank route at age 42.  She is now considering having another at age 48.
-  I had children at ages 33, 39, and 43. Energy is definitely lower, but we're a lot better off than when we had our first child.

Some questions/thoughts:
- How big and supportive is your extended family? My single mom friend is well off and has a good job, but she has a very small family, and basically she is leaning on her single older brother as a backup.  However, she is determined to have another child, mostly for the sake of her first child. She doesn't want him to be alone in the world when she passes.

- On the subject of extended family, a possible minus to not raising a child with a partner is less extended family... fewer cousins, uncles, aunts, grandparents to play with or spoil your child.  Cousins often play important roles with an only child. If your network is not big, you need to start building up a group of friends as additional mentors and supports for your child.

- On the other hand, my single mom friend (who is divorced but her ex has no relation to her child) clearly relishes not having to deal with in-laws of any sort.

- An advantage you have in being an older single father, is that childbirth will not wreak havoc on your older body. 

- You may not get the kind of kid you thought you would get. And children become adults soon enough.  You may be nodding now and thinking "I know that", but you really don't know until you live it!    Could you do well with living with a young adult who doesn't share your interests or think the way you do-- in fact, seems to go out of his way to be the opposite of you?

- On a more positive note, whatever you do, you're probably not going to regret raising a child. Few people seem to do so. And most people don't consider all this stuff before they become parents, and yet they do, so you'll be ahead of the game.

If my child was a racist, sexist, homophobic serial killer who voted Republican, Iíd have some issues, otherwise, you do you kid.

Phoenix_Fire

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #216 on: February 01, 2019, 02:42:23 PM »
MTD, here's something else to consider in your FIRE plans with a kid.  You mention that you plan on moving to a LCOL country as part of your FIRE.  If you succeed in having a child, would you still want to move them away from your family?  Having cousins around might be a good experience (although I never had any close), and you might want to have the extended family support, even if you aren't relying on it.  If you were to stay, I am guessing your estimated FIRE expenses would go up.  You might want to estimate expenses if you stayed where you are or something similar versus just assuming you will move no matter what.

Also, I'm in the go for the kid camp!  Good luck!

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #217 on: February 01, 2019, 02:48:46 PM »
MTD, here's something else to consider in your FIRE plans with a kid.  You mention that you plan on moving to a LCOL country as part of your FIRE.  If you succeed in having a child, would you still want to move them away from your family?  Having cousins around might be a good experience (although I never had any close), and you might want to have the extended family support, even if you aren't relying on it.  If you were to stay, I am guessing your estimated FIRE expenses would go up.  You might want to estimate expenses if you stayed where you are or something similar versus just assuming you will move no matter what.

Also, I'm in the go for the kid camp!  Good luck!

Thanks. Outside of the first year, itíll just be me and the kid, without any regular family support, so thatís why Iíll need an au pair or nanny (very affordable in LCOL places), and Iíll have to be very good at meeting other parents with kids for play dates.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #218 on: February 02, 2019, 01:12:35 AM »
Been thinking about some points recently made and now thinking that I might need to move back home after I become FI to be around family so the kid is around cousins and everyone. Thatís a sacrifice Iíll have to make but Iíll be up for that, as Iím only having one kid and there wonít be siblings.

Hula Hoop

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #219 on: February 02, 2019, 10:29:21 AM »
MTD, here's something else to consider in your FIRE plans with a kid.  You mention that you plan on moving to a LCOL country as part of your FIRE.  If you succeed in having a child, would you still want to move them away from your family?  Having cousins around might be a good experience (although I never had any close), and you might want to have the extended family support, even if you aren't relying on it.  If you were to stay, I am guessing your estimated FIRE expenses would go up.  You might want to estimate expenses if you stayed where you are or something similar versus just assuming you will move no matter what.

Also, I'm in the go for the kid camp!  Good luck!

Thanks. Outside of the first year, itíll just be me and the kid, without any regular family support, so thatís why Iíll need an au pair or nanny (very affordable in LCOL places), and Iíll have to be very good at meeting other parents with kids for play dates.

Can you explain this?  Is your extended family planning on moving away right when your kid turns one?  How do they know that they are going to do this when you haven't even had the kid yet so they don't know the timing?  If your family plans to move away from the area when your kid is one, I revise what I said above.  Raising kids without a partner and without family help is a really tall order.  We're raising our kids without family help as our families are either far away or, in the case of my in-laws, no longer living and it's tough. 

Earlier you said that you'd have extended family help raising the child - but you never mentioned the one year cut off.  I really don't understand this.  I suspect that if your extended family (I'm assuming your parents and siblings) get attached to your child after spending so much time with him/her during the first year they'll probably re-think their moving plans as they'll want to continue to be in his/her life.  In this case, Phoenix's point is a very good one.  You should also think about private school fees as local schooling can be difficult for a western kid in many LCOL parts of the world.


Poundwise

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #220 on: February 02, 2019, 11:36:02 AM »
Been thinking about some points recently made and now thinking that I might need to move back home after I become FI to be around family so the kid is around cousins and everyone. Thatís a sacrifice Iíll have to make but Iíll be up for that, as Iím only having one kid and there wonít be siblings.

I think it's best that way, if you have a good and supportive family.  If something were to happen to my friend as mentioned above, and to her brother (who is older than her and not in the best of health), she has asked me to be her child's guardian, but although I have agreed to adopt her child if necessary, it is a rather large thing to ask of someone not related. Being of limited means and having my own family to care for, I would not have agreed to this for anyone other than a lifelong childhood friend. Good parenting means having at least 2-3 guardians lined up in case of the unexpected. 

As I think about it, becoming a parent often means, paradoxically, accepting that you will become dependent on others more than if you were childless and free.  It is not a bad thing-- probably in fact a good thing-- but you are forced to make more connections with society than you might otherwise choose.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 11:39:49 AM by Poundwise »

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #221 on: February 02, 2019, 12:22:29 PM »
MTD, here's something else to consider in your FIRE plans with a kid.  You mention that you plan on moving to a LCOL country as part of your FIRE.  If you succeed in having a child, would you still want to move them away from your family?  Having cousins around might be a good experience (although I never had any close), and you might want to have the extended family support, even if you aren't relying on it.  If you were to stay, I am guessing your estimated FIRE expenses would go up.  You might want to estimate expenses if you stayed where you are or something similar versus just assuming you will move no matter what.

Also, I'm in the go for the kid camp!  Good luck!

Thanks. Outside of the first year, itíll just be me and the kid, without any regular family support, so thatís why Iíll need an au pair or nanny (very affordable in LCOL places), and Iíll have to be very good at meeting other parents with kids for play dates.

Can you explain this?  Is your extended family planning on moving away right when your kid turns one?  How do they know that they are going to do this when you haven't even had the kid yet so they don't know the timing?  If your family plans to move away from the area when your kid is one, I revise what I said above.  Raising kids without a partner and without family help is a really tall order.  We're raising our kids without family help as our families are either far away or, in the case of my in-laws, no longer living and it's tough. 

Earlier you said that you'd have extended family help raising the child - but you never mentioned the one year cut off.  I really don't understand this.  I suspect that if your extended family (I'm assuming your parents and siblings) get attached to your child after spending so much time with him/her during the first year they'll probably re-think their moving plans as they'll want to continue to be in his/her life.  In this case, Phoenix's point is a very good one.  You should also think about private school fees as local schooling can be difficult for a western kid in many LCOL parts of the world.

Unfortunately I canít go into detail without it sharing too much information about myself. In short, I donít live in the US now, but would move home for the kidís first year, but then need to move back to where I live and have a good job. After about 4-5 more years, Iíd FIRE and move back to the US to have the kid around family. So from 1-4ish, the kid would need day care, nanny and/or au pair options while I work. I would travel back and family would visit over that time.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #222 on: February 02, 2019, 12:26:48 PM »
Been thinking about some points recently made and now thinking that I might need to move back home after I become FI to be around family so the kid is around cousins and everyone. Thatís a sacrifice Iíll have to make but Iíll be up for that, as Iím only having one kid and there wonít be siblings.

I think it's best that way, if you have a good and supportive family.  If something were to happen to my friend as mentioned above, and to her brother (who is older than her and not in the best of health), she has asked me to be her child's guardian, but although I have agreed to adopt her child if necessary, it is a rather large thing to ask of someone not related. Being of limited means and having my own family to care for, I would not have agreed to this for anyone other than a lifelong childhood friend. Good parenting means having at least 2-3 guardians lined up in case of the unexpected. 

As I think about it, becoming a parent often means, paradoxically, accepting that you will become dependent on others more than if you were childless and free.  It is not a bad thing-- probably in fact a good thing-- but you are forced to make more connections with society than you might otherwise choose.

Yes, Iím understanding this more and more as I work through everything. Could I manage by myself if I had to? Of course. But, I have a loving and caring family and we have some new babies in the family so the kid would have cousins in a 3-4 year time frame, which is pretty good, they can all be buddies and there is no logical reason for me to deny that if itís possible. I can always find time to take the kid on trips and adventures. Not quite sure what Iíll do with my time when kid is in school but Iím sure Iíll find something.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #223 on: February 09, 2019, 03:22:03 PM »
Update:

Well, Iím progressing this and it looks like Iím going to give it a go.

Actions so far:
1. Have identified an agency that is responsive, affordable and answering my questions
2. Have set a target date of August this year
3. Have shared with mom and sheís fully supportive and on board
4. Have researched company and government family leave policies (make too much for gov)
5. Have booked in for surrogacy conference where Iíll meet the owner of the agency I like

Once I meet the owner and confirm all my remaining questions Iíll then book appointments for medical testing and psychological counseling (for my own benefit), while continuing to save money for the first stage payment.

Still a long way to go and who knows if a healthy baby will end up in my arms in 18 months, but it wonít be from a lack of love, planning and effort.

elaine amj

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #224 on: February 09, 2019, 07:37:45 PM »
Congratulations! For what it's worth, I think you'll be a great dad!!!

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MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #225 on: February 09, 2019, 11:53:52 PM »
Congratulations! For what it's worth, I think you'll be a great dad!!!

Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk

Thank you!

neonlight

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #226 on: February 10, 2019, 01:33:40 AM »
Iím struggling with this and trying to work through it. Iím single now and fine with it but thereís a part of me that still would like to raise a child, but Iíll be 50 in a couple of years. If that doesnít happen, then the plan will be, live my best life traveling the world. Honestly not sure what path to go down as the former is fraught with many concerns. But Iíd be such a great dad!

So, Option A, the kid: Iíd have to the surrogacy route (please donít suggest other ways, theyíve all been thought through and wonít work for various reasons). Most places that were more affordable have closed to single men so that basically leaves the US, where it will cost over $100k.  If I go that direction, it would mean putting my FIRE plans on hold for probably 3-5 extra years as all my plans now are focused me as a single guy, not a single parent. Thatís not horrible, but to be honest, Iíd love to be a SAHP for my kid as much as possible and not work, especially the first 5-7 years, so FIRE would be ideal during that time. It also just feels like so much money, when most people have them for free.  Depressing.

Option B: accept that Iíll always be childless, focus on being child free and a great and generous uncle and FIRE in 4 years, spending my life traveling the globe. Sounds great and I love it, except nothing obsesses me more than watching parents with kids and imagining what my life would be like if I had that? Iím so envious. I think I would trade anything, but then, push come to shove, I wonder because I worry that the cost is too great.

Anyways, love your thoughts, but please be gentle as this is quite personal and sensitive and Iím not looking at getting into an argument with anyone. If you canít have kids and you want them, it sucks so much you wouldnít believe it.

Hi, I don't want to suggest anything ill-minded (for the lack of word) but maybe you can move to a third world country and find someone you can fall in love with, and kinda-travel in an exotic country and also get married and have kid all at the same time?

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #227 on: February 10, 2019, 02:42:42 AM »
Iím struggling with this and trying to work through it. Iím single now and fine with it but thereís a part of me that still would like to raise a child, but Iíll be 50 in a couple of years. If that doesnít happen, then the plan will be, live my best life traveling the world. Honestly not sure what path to go down as the former is fraught with many concerns. But Iíd be such a great dad!

So, Option A, the kid: Iíd have to the surrogacy route (please donít suggest other ways, theyíve all been thought through and wonít work for various reasons). Most places that were more affordable have closed to single men so that basically leaves the US, where it will cost over $100k.  If I go that direction, it would mean putting my FIRE plans on hold for probably 3-5 extra years as all my plans now are focused me as a single guy, not a single parent. Thatís not horrible, but to be honest, Iíd love to be a SAHP for my kid as much as possible and not work, especially the first 5-7 years, so FIRE would be ideal during that time. It also just feels like so much money, when most people have them for free.  Depressing.

Option B: accept that Iíll always be childless, focus on being child free and a great and generous uncle and FIRE in 4 years, spending my life traveling the globe. Sounds great and I love it, except nothing obsesses me more than watching parents with kids and imagining what my life would be like if I had that? Iím so envious. I think I would trade anything, but then, push come to shove, I wonder because I worry that the cost is too great.

Anyways, love your thoughts, but please be gentle as this is quite personal and sensitive and Iím not looking at getting into an argument with anyone. If you canít have kids and you want them, it sucks so much you wouldnít believe it.

Hi, I don't want to suggest anything ill-minded (for the lack of word) but maybe you can move to a third world country and find someone you can fall in love with, and kinda-travel in an exotic country and also get married and have kid all at the same time?

Umm, so, you want me to quit my high paying job before iíve FIRED to move and somehow rapidly meet, marry and impregnate a third world woman?

Thatís a better alternative what Iím planning?

LadyMaWhiskers

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #228 on: February 10, 2019, 06:40:35 AM »
Update:

Well, Iím progressing this and it looks like Iím going to give it a go.

Actions so far:

...

Still a long way to go and who knows if a healthy baby will end up in my arms in 18 months, but it wonít be from a lack of love, planning and effort.

Congrats! Maybe it's time for a journal? I just started one (which no one visits) and would love to be your older-single-aspiring parent buddy.

Poundwise

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #229 on: February 10, 2019, 08:10:46 AM »
Update:

Well, Iím progressing this and it looks like Iím going to give it a go.

Actions so far:
1. Have identified an agency that is responsive, affordable and answering my questions
2. Have set a target date of August this year
3. Have shared with mom and sheís fully supportive and on board
4. Have researched company and government family leave policies (make too much for gov)
5. Have booked in for surrogacy conference where Iíll meet the owner of the agency I like

Once I meet the owner and confirm all my remaining questions Iíll then book appointments for medical testing and psychological counseling (for my own benefit), while continuing to save money for the first stage payment.

Still a long way to go and who knows if a healthy baby will end up in my arms in 18 months, but it wonít be from a lack of love, planning and effort.

Good work! It sounds like you are going to make it happen!

Another thought, since I just saw your move plan. As you plan your moves,  please also consider the consequences of moving your child.  It may be a little hard to move the child away from her/his home and familiar faces, unless you are both visiting your relatives several times a year.  To a young child, the people you hire for childcare are family, so if there is a way you can continue a relationship with them after your move, that will be better. Or could you persuade  your mother (though she must be quite elderly for travel) to stay with you for months at a time, to provide continuity for the child?

Anecdotal source: We also used to move around a bit, and I am amazed at how kids can form very strong connections by age 4.  My kids still feel close to children they met at age 3, and they still miss the crappy apartments we were living in when they were tiny. Also, my mother-in-law was raised by a foster family until about age 7, though her mother visited frequently and gave money for her support.  Suddenly her mother got married and whisked her away to the US... for which my MIL always resented her, for removing her from the family and surroundings where she was happy.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #230 on: February 10, 2019, 12:11:37 PM »
Update:

Well, Iím progressing this and it looks like Iím going to give it a go.

Actions so far:
1. Have identified an agency that is responsive, affordable and answering my questions
2. Have set a target date of August this year
3. Have shared with mom and sheís fully supportive and on board
4. Have researched company and government family leave policies (make too much for gov)
5. Have booked in for surrogacy conference where Iíll meet the owner of the agency I like

Once I meet the owner and confirm all my remaining questions Iíll then book appointments for medical testing and psychological counseling (for my own benefit), while continuing to save money for the first stage payment.

Still a long way to go and who knows if a healthy baby will end up in my arms in 18 months, but it wonít be from a lack of love, planning and effort.

Good work! It sounds like you are going to make it happen!

Another thought, since I just saw your move plan. As you plan your moves,  please also consider the consequences of moving your child.  It may be a little hard to move the child away from her/his home and familiar faces, unless you are both visiting your relatives several times a year.  To a young child, the people you hire for childcare are family, so if there is a way you can continue a relationship with them after your move, that will be better. Or could you persuade  your mother (though she must be quite elderly for travel) to stay with you for months at a time, to provide continuity for the child?

Anecdotal source: We also used to move around a bit, and I am amazed at how kids can form very strong connections by age 4.  My kids still feel close to children they met at age 3, and they still miss the crappy apartments we were living in when they were tiny. Also, my mother-in-law was raised by a foster family until about age 7, though her mother visited frequently and gave money for her support.  Suddenly her mother got married and whisked her away to the US... for which my MIL always resented her, for removing her from the family and surroundings where she was happy.

Thanks, yes, all that is being planned for. Mom will be visiting (sheís not elderly, she was a young mom), and we will be visiting family over the years until we move back permanently. Most kid attachments build at 4-5, and travel, moving and meeting new people will be something my kid will learn as our norm and way of being. I plan on traveling with the kid a lot as I like the idea of world-schooling. We wonít have a conventional life, but weíll have a fun, adventurous and stimulating one. Thatís my current idea but you also have to see what kid you get, if the kid really canít handle it and needs to be in one place, simple, we stay where my family is all the time. Iím not going to overthink this right now. Step one, have healthy kid. Everything else will flow from that, and since 99% of parents make it up as they go, I think weíll be ok.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #231 on: February 10, 2019, 12:26:39 PM »
Update:

Well, Iím progressing this and it looks like Iím going to give it a go.

Actions so far:

...

Still a long way to go and who knows if a healthy baby will end up in my arms in 18 months, but it wonít be from a lack of love, planning and effort.

Congrats! Maybe it's time for a journal? I just started one (which no one visits) and would love to be your older-single-aspiring parent buddy.

Thank you! I might just do that. Iíd probably start it under a new screen name. I will say though, if this actually happens, it will all be because of MMM and what Iíve learned here. Couldnít even have thought about it if I hadnít improved my financial health.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #232 on: February 18, 2019, 12:57:15 PM »
I attended the conference, met the owners of the agency (really sweet people) and met and spoke with a client who fu,key endorsed working with the agency. Iíve made up my mind and Iím going to do this. I hope it works out, will be mentally prepared that it might not and Iíll make myself be at peace with that cause as Iíve said, Iíve done everything I could to become a father.

Thanks everyone who contributed with support and challenging my thinking. I wonít use this space as a journal since itís served its purpose to help me work through it all.

Forever indebted to MMM and this community for helping to make me strong enough to try this as a single man.