Author Topic: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?  (Read 8189 times)

I'm a red panda

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #100 on: January 02, 2019, 02:20:48 PM »
I think 50 is too old. You should want to adopt, help , foster, mentor and the fact that you think those are out of the question is alarming. Some of your other posts about aging go along with the concerns other people are voicing here.

The OP has told us NOTHING about whether they have interest in helping or mentoring children; nor whether they want to foster.  The main goal of fostering (at least in the US) is supposed to be reunification with bio-family, even if you hope to foster-to adopt. Lots of people just can't do that. Or maybe OP wants to foster but would also like a child of their own.

There are lots of issues with adoption that may or may not make it feasible; and many people have ethical issues with adoption that even if they are candidates for agencies it would not work for them.

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #101 on: January 02, 2019, 02:26:44 PM »
I think 50 is too old. You should want to adopt, help , foster, mentor and the fact that you think those are out of the question is alarming. Some of your other posts about aging go along with the concerns other people are voicing here.

The OP has told us NOTHING about whether they have interest in helping or mentoring children; nor whether they want to foster.  The main goal of fostering (at least in the US) is supposed to be reunification with bio-family, even if you hope to foster-to adopt. Lots of people just can't do that. Or maybe OP wants to foster but would also like a child of their own.

There are lots of issues with adoption that may or may not make it feasible; and many people have ethical issues with adoption that even if they are candidates for agencies it would not work for them.


fair enough but the OP in a different thread is talking about how he is having mental/memory decline

I'm a red panda

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #102 on: January 02, 2019, 02:35:10 PM »
I think 50 is too old. You should want to adopt, help , foster, mentor and the fact that you think those are out of the question is alarming. Some of your other posts about aging go along with the concerns other people are voicing here.

The OP has told us NOTHING about whether they have interest in helping or mentoring children; nor whether they want to foster.  The main goal of fostering (at least in the US) is supposed to be reunification with bio-family, even if you hope to foster-to adopt. Lots of people just can't do that. Or maybe OP wants to foster but would also like a child of their own.

There are lots of issues with adoption that may or may not make it feasible; and many people have ethical issues with adoption that even if they are candidates for agencies it would not work for them.


fair enough but the OP in a different thread is talking about how he is having mental/memory decline

I wouldn't recommend him adopt then, either.

ElleFiji

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #103 on: January 02, 2019, 02:42:27 PM »
I'm not going to read all the arguing here. You can come up with enough negativity in your own brain. I know. I'm in a similar position. And my conclusion was that I need to at least try.  I dipped a toe into the baby etc thread and it is full of warmth and support, even if you're at the thinking about trying to conceive point.

mm1970

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #104 on: January 02, 2019, 03:11:10 PM »
I'm surprised some people are digging in their heels about age. I can relate to being worried about it being the last time I see my dad because he makes dumb decisions like driving tired. Also my dad at 62 is the same age as most of the dads at the elementary school because most of them are on their second families.
And it's not easy peasy to take care of your parents when the child is older and the parents are older. My parents were in their 50's when their parents got sick. Both my parents had to quit their jobs at the peak of their careers to take care of them. It took 2 years for my dad to find another job making less than he was making before. My mother wasn't able to find another job and became a private music teacher. My grandparents had kids at the "right" age and they still ruined their kids lives for awhile.

The most important thing I have learned from this forum is that most people do whatever they feel like with their lives (including being misguided by consumerism). People who follow the "rules" are suckas.
This just blows my mind.

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #105 on: January 02, 2019, 05:02:15 PM »
fair enough but the OP in a different thread is talking about how he is having mental/memory decline

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-do-people-age/msg2231434/#msg2231434
Quote from: MrThatsDifferent
Iíve found as I get older Iím losing my eyesight, stamina and memory. The memory one is the worst. I canít remember names, second guess words Iím spelling and sometimes will lose track of thoughts when talking. It feels like Flowers for Algernon. So bizarre. Iím hoping itís not early signs of dementia or Alzheimerís. Iíve talked to older people who say, weíll, thatís just getting older. Freaky.
This pretty much admits the fear so many want to casually dismiss.

MrUpwardlyMobile

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #106 on: January 02, 2019, 05:08:52 PM »
fair enough but the OP in a different thread is talking about how he is having mental/memory decline

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-do-people-age/msg2231434/#msg2231434
Quote from: MrThatsDifferent
Iíve found as I get older Iím losing my eyesight, stamina and memory. The memory one is the worst. I canít remember names, second guess words Iím spelling and sometimes will lose track of thoughts when talking. It feels like Flowers for Algernon. So bizarre. Iím hoping itís not early signs of dementia or Alzheimerís. Iíve talked to older people who say, weíll, thatís just getting older. Freaky.
This pretty much admits the fear so many want to casually dismiss.

Yeah, aging sucks.

mozar

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #107 on: January 02, 2019, 05:42:35 PM »
I'm surprised some people are digging in their heels about age. I can relate to being worried about it being the last time I see my dad because he makes dumb decisions like driving tired. Also my dad at 62 is the same age as most of the dads at the elementary school because most of them are on their second families.
By most being 60+ you mean .1-1% I assume because this is vastly inaccurate statement otherwise.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/30/health/older-dads-us-study/index.html
"Over the study period, the portion of newborns' fathers who are 40 or older doubled from 4.1% to 8.9%. Meanwhile, the proportion of dads who were 50 or older rose from [0.5%] to nearly [1%]."


Really, I'm serious. It's the only school like it in the region so maybe they are just all congregated there. My dad is on the PTA and helps to run the school so I trust he knows the percentages. I didn't mean same age to literally mean they are all exactly 62 though. I meant in the range of older dad.

Quote from: mozar on Today at 09:44:02 AM
And it's not easy peasy to take care of your parents when the child is older and the parents are older. My parents were in their 50's when their parents got sick. Both my parents had to quit their jobs at the peak of their careers to take care of them. It took 2 years for my dad to find another job making less than he was making before. My mother wasn't able to find another job and became a private music teacher. My grandparents had kids at the "right" age and they still ruined their kids lives for awhile.
True, having to take care of your parents can ruin your life at any stage.  However, it depends on how you prepared.  A 50+ year old child will have a world more experience, patience, and wisdom in addition to a large cash cushion (or should) that would permit them to take that lower paid job.  A 20 year old dropping out of college or taking a less optimal job (MBA working at McDonalds) could ruin their career permanently.


I totally disagree. A 20 year old can go back to college and finish and will have plenty of years to recover. A 55 year old (and I'm not talking about the special community of mustachians where people have been saving significant amount) only has 10 years until typical retirement. My dad isn't going to recover from that setback. The only saving grace is that with the new job he will get a pension of $1300 a month on top of social security. He's got no patience or wisdom or cash, that's for sure.

Quote from: mozar on Today at 09:44:02 AM
The most important thing I have learned from this forum is that most people do whatever they feel like with their lives (including being misguided by consumerism). People who follow the "rules" are suckas.
Except that doesn't fly when it impacts the health and happiness of another human.  Doesn't matter if whacking people upside the head with a bat is what makes me happy because it impacts their happinesss, those "suckas rules" matter.  You can't make a utilitarian argument in favor of this.


Nobody is advocating for illegal activity here. Physical assault is a red herring.*
*Quotes aren't working for me so I'm bolding.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #108 on: January 02, 2019, 06:01:39 PM »

Now for something I'm actually curious about: what are you doing 20 hours a week for exercise?!?!?!

M-F, I do 30-40m of HIIT workouts, plus 1-1.5 hours of walking to and from work. Sometimes ride the bike as well. Also, have a hobby sport I have lessons for 1.5 hrs during the week. All of this, except the walk home is before work.

On the weekends, I do my workouts, bike rides and play my hobby sport for at least 5-7 hours.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #109 on: January 02, 2019, 06:12:07 PM »
fair enough but the OP in a different thread is talking about how he is having mental/memory decline

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-do-people-age/msg2231434/#msg2231434
Quote from: MrThatsDifferent
Iíve found as I get older Iím losing my eyesight, stamina and memory. The memory one is the worst. I canít remember names, second guess words Iím spelling and sometimes will lose track of thoughts when talking. It feels like Flowers for Algernon. So bizarre. Iím hoping itís not early signs of dementia or Alzheimerís. Iíve talked to older people who say, weíll, thatís just getting older. Freaky.
This pretty much admits the fear so many want to casually dismiss.

Yeah, aging sucks.

Indeed it does but I still run a multi-million dollar business with an office of over 20. Eyesight has definitely gotten worse, but itíll really just mean bifocals at most. Memory has dipped some, thereís no doubt about that. And I have those fears as a person getting older, what does this mean, as Iíve never experienced it before. I could just be panicking about something. I certainly donít think I canít raise a kid and Iím pretty sure Iíd have at least 20 years before anything noticeable happened.

Although the idea of helping my kid with the math homework scares me.  But I doubt Iíd be alone in that. Lol

I appreciate the sleuthing to prove that Iím too weak or will be soon to be a father and be there for my kid. Again, concerns about age are legitimate or I wouldnít be raising them. Itís not deterring me as much as I thought it would. It is making me think I should move up my timetable and try to make this happen sooner, mostly because Iíd love to do this yesterday, not tomorrow. However, Iím going to be sensible and keep working through this. You all have given me so much to think about, in a good way.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #110 on: January 02, 2019, 06:17:21 PM »
Intersting story, thank you MrThatsDifferent.

I can't imagine life without being a father. It was a lot of two-stepping at 2 AM the first year, dancing helped keep me awake while I tried to get her to sleep, its not all roses and sunshine. I have a partner, so it was easier, but if my only choice was to go it alone I would (eventually). Although I was tired and hated large parts of my life; I also had those moments that I wouldn't trade for any promotion, vacation or FIRE date.

I wonder about how the child will perceive your age. I'm guessing they'll be thankful to be alive in this world, cause the alternative is to never be born. Rather then bemoan only having 30 years with you, perhaps they'll realize they're lucky to have 30 years with you. I'd rather mourn a beloved dad at 30 who was the greatest man I ever knew then be born at the regular time to parents who were indifferent. The stronger your bond, the harder the passing, its a compliment to you that people think you're child will grieve your passing.

As for the cost, if$ 100k is that big of a deal, then I'm not sure you really want a kid. Stop and reconsider if the cost is a factor or just an excuse to help you back down from an irreversible decision. Pre-MMM that would have been a lot of cash, now its just a few years of savings, its not like it would destroy my life even if I came out empty handed. Although I'd be bitter about the cash, I'd be far more bitter in 10 years when I realized that its too late and all that extra cash is just numbers in bank account.

Also, I suspect if you get a kid that you will struggle to find a partner in the future. Your dating life will be worse afterwards, you will be trading a future with a partner for a baby. Is that off the table, are you done with dating or at least willing to seriously hamper your self? I can't imagine too many people wanting to date you with a kid, at 50 they'll probably want to be done with raising a child.

Thanks for this. Yes, this discussion has helped me work out that $100k isnít that big of a deal. Not with my current salary and how things are set up. What Iím more worried about, if Iím honest, is paying that and not having a child. I think then Iíd be doubly crushed, but at least I can then say, weíll, I have done everything and truly, this was not the path for me. The place Iíve researched though says if youíre not successful, for a small fee, they will find another surrogate to assist. Itís not a guarantee but does sound like they work hard to help you achieve your dream.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #111 on: January 02, 2019, 06:27:34 PM »
I'm surprised some people are digging in their heels about age. I can relate to being worried about it being the last time I see my dad because he makes dumb decisions like driving tired. Also my dad at 62 is the same age as most of the dads at the elementary school because most of them are on their second families.
By most being 60+ you mean .1-1% I assume because this is vastly inaccurate statement otherwise.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/30/health/older-dads-us-study/index.html
"Over the study period, the portion of newborns' fathers who are 40 or older doubled from 4.1% to 8.9%. Meanwhile, the proportion of dads who were 50 or older rose from [0.5%] to nearly [1%]."
And it's not easy peasy to take care of your parents when the child is older and the parents are older. My parents were in their 50's when their parents got sick. Both my parents had to quit their jobs at the peak of their careers to take care of them. It took 2 years for my dad to find another job making less than he was making before. My mother wasn't able to find another job and became a private music teacher. My grandparents had kids at the "right" age and they still ruined their kids lives for awhile.
True, having to take care of your parents can ruin your life at any stage.  However, it depends on how you prepared.  A 50+ year old child will have a world more experience, patience, and wisdom in addition to a large cash cushion (or should) that would permit them to take that lower paid job.  A 20 year old dropping out of college or taking a less optimal job (MBA working at McDonalds) could ruin their career permanently.

The most important thing I have learned from this forum is that most people do whatever they feel like with their lives (including being misguided by consumerism). People who follow the "rules" are suckas.
Except that doesn't fly when it impacts the health and happiness of another human.  Doesn't matter if whacking people upside the head with a bat is what makes me happy because it impacts their happinesss, those "suckas rules" matter.  You can't make a utilitarian argument in favor of this.

I had older parents (my dad was in his late 40s when I was born), and then they had my sister several years later.  Both of my parents died before I was 25 and my sister was still a teenager.  I still feel really resentful of people who got to "have" their parents for much longer than I did. 

I'm not saying you shouldn't have a child if you want one.  You might live until they are 40 or 50, as you say.  Both my parents were healthy, until they weren't.  I am in the middle of IVF to have a kid of my own, so I understand your feelings, truly.  But from a kid standpoint of older parents, it fucking sucked.  I would have loved for my dad to have been alive to walk me down the aisle, or to meet my (hypothetical) kid, or to come visit me in the first house that I bought, or to cheer me on when I moved cross country.  He missed a lot.
A lot of the people speaking out in favor of this did not have older parents, while many of those (myself included) who did have older parents (not even as old as being proposed here) are advising against this while having our concerns casually dismissed by those who haven't personally experienced it.

Dude, I thank you for contributing and appreciate what youíve shared. It has definitely made me think more about this and work through my own concerns regarding age. Iím sorry that your experience with your parents have caused you so much resentment. Iím on the other side. I had very young parents and take issue with their choices. But, Iíve also learned to forgive them and realize, their job was to get me to 18 alive, and from there it was on me. Parents arenít perfect and no one has a crystal ball. No one is guaranteed tomorrow, but that doesnít mean we canít or shouldnít still try to have the family or life we want.

Iím not ignoring you. But also, Iím not going to base my decisions solely on the negative experience of one or a couple internet strangers. I hope you understand that. Iíve heard you though. Iíve listened and I understand what youíre trying to impart. Know that if I go through with this and a miracle happens and I get to be a dad, I will be the most conscious, loving dad that has ever been. For as long as we have each other. Thatís the best anyone can really do, and how different would the world be if more people had that level of conviction and passion towards their kids?

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #112 on: January 02, 2019, 06:32:45 PM »
Someone mentioned my dating life and how no one will want to be with a 50 year old with a kid. Umm, ok. Look, I canít argue with that as I have no idea. If itís just me and the kid until the kid goes to college and my dating life resumes at 68 or whatever, Iím quite fine with that. I know several men who have met partners and married in the late 60s. Apparently people fall in love at almost any age. Hell, people in prison have people who fall in love with them. Quite frankly, Iím ok dedicating my life to the kid. Iíve had all this time for me and have done so many incredible things. I have friends and family that love me dearly. Of all the concerns about this, my dating life with a kid, is the least important.

Zette

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #113 on: January 02, 2019, 06:38:18 PM »

Now for something I'm actually curious about: what are you doing 20 hours a week for exercise?!?!?!

M-F, I do 30-40m of HIIT workouts, plus 1-1.5 hours of walking to and from work. Sometimes ride the bike as well. Also, have a hobby sport I have lessons for 1.5 hrs during the week. All of this, except the walk home is before work.

On the weekends, I do my workouts, bike rides and play my hobby sport for at least 5-7 hours.

If you do have a kid, expect that 20 hr/wk to drop to about 5-7 hr/wk. 

DreamFIRE

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #114 on: January 02, 2019, 06:43:33 PM »

I'm about your age with no kids, no pets, and I definitely wouldn't want to be raising a kid, especially on my own.  I'm not even up for the additional hassles of having a pet.  It might sound like a nice plan thinking about only the positive things.   Living it is another matter.  And some things are not so easy to walk away from.  So personally, I would take the 100 Grand, and have fun doing whatever, although I wouldn't spend it all traveling the world, maybe some of it.

Villanelle

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #115 on: January 02, 2019, 06:45:19 PM »
I was fully on board the "it's no more selfish than having a kid ever, so if OP is called that way, he should do it" train, until the post about his worries about Alzheimer's or similar issues, based on more than just random fear, but actual perceptions.

OP, please, please, please let the first stop in this potential journey be a thorough examination in which you discuss the issues you've had and absolutely rule them out.  If you ignore possible warning signs of an illness that can crush you future child both emotionally and financially, all while s/he is still a minor, that does kind of make you an selfish asshole.  Make sure you are okay (or as okay as modern medicine can guarantee, then go forth and multiply.  I wish you the best of luck on both fronts. 

DreamFIRE

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #116 on: January 02, 2019, 07:07:00 PM »
Oh, I wouldn't call "needing bifocals" as "losing my eyesight".  That's normal when you get up in your 40's or 50's.  And I see tons of spelling mistakes on this forum, and I doubt all these people have dementia.  So I wouldn't factor that in on your decision.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #117 on: January 02, 2019, 07:50:23 PM »

Now for something I'm actually curious about: what are you doing 20 hours a week for exercise?!?!?!

M-F, I do 30-40m of HIIT workouts, plus 1-1.5 hours of walking to and from work. Sometimes ride the bike as well. Also, have a hobby sport I have lessons for 1.5 hrs during the week. All of this, except the walk home is before work.

On the weekends, I do my workouts, bike rides and play my hobby sport for at least 5-7 hours.

If you do have a kid, expect that 20 hr/wk to drop to about 5-7 hr/wk.

Yeah, it will definitely change. Again, Iíll also have help from day 1 with family and then with childcare, so there will be time for me, but 5-7 hours per week is still more than enough to stay in good shape.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #118 on: January 02, 2019, 07:52:27 PM »
I was fully on board the "it's no more selfish than having a kid ever, so if OP is called that way, he should do it" train, until the post about his worries about Alzheimer's or similar issues, based on more than just random fear, but actual perceptions.

OP, please, please, please let the first stop in this potential journey be a thorough examination in which you discuss the issues you've had and absolutely rule them out.  If you ignore possible warning signs of an illness that can crush you future child both emotionally and financially, all while s/he is still a minor, that does kind of make you an selfish asshole.  Make sure you are okay (or as okay as modern medicine can guarantee, then go forth and multiply.  I wish you the best of luck on both fronts.

Absolutely will make sure Iím in good shape and will make sure that these little changes are part of normal life and not warning signs.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #119 on: January 02, 2019, 07:55:31 PM »
Oh, I wouldn't call "needing bifocals" as "losing my eyesight".  That's normal when you get up in your 40's or 50's.  And I see tons of spelling mistakes on this forum, and I doubt all these people have dementia.  So I wouldn't factor that in on your decision.

Thanks. Yes, thereís a paranoia about getting older as we all go through it. My parents are still quite healthy and active, with the regular older person complaints and Iím in a lot better shape than either of them were at my age.

OneCoolCat

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #120 on: January 02, 2019, 08:10:12 PM »
I always wanted to have kids and I have two of them.  I love spending all my time with them but I know my limitations and I know it would be extremely difficult to do it on my own, even if I was FIRE.

I think you should be the fun uncle and travel the world.

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #121 on: January 02, 2019, 08:25:46 PM »

Now for something I'm actually curious about: what are you doing 20 hours a week for exercise?!?!?!

M-F, I do 30-40m of HIIT workouts, plus 1-1.5 hours of walking to and from work. Sometimes ride the bike as well. Also, have a hobby sport I have lessons for 1.5 hrs during the week. All of this, except the walk home is before work.

On the weekends, I do my workouts, bike rides and play my hobby sport for at least 5-7 hours.

I guess this is obvious, but all this is going to go by the wayside when you're a single dad.  I exercise during lunch breaks at work (gym is in my building) and walk to and from work but with a husband who works weekends other exercise is very difficult.  You can't leave the kid by him/herself while you go run in the park. 

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #122 on: January 02, 2019, 08:37:36 PM »
MTD - If you put the effort in to parenting that you have fighting for it (that we have seen) and it's just one child, I think you'll be OK either way.  Having a child is not some great salvation from general life problems but one child does not overwhelm a single parent that can do it.  I really don't have a definitive instruction to your conundrum because you are the definition of a grey area.  There is no clear answer to your question, even if you ran a simulation a million times and analyzed the data and had a conclusion from that.  Even then I would not rule out either avenue.

deborah

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #123 on: January 02, 2019, 08:53:17 PM »
We each have our own experiences to think through and guide us in our decisions. My experiences come down firmly on the "no child" side. There are several reasons, all of which have been (I think) only marginally mentioned...

My uncle had three kids, then a break of 15 years, then two more. One Christmas he was talking about being an older father. He said it was a mistake. As near as I remember it (it really stuck with me) "The human body is made to be able to keep up with young kids when you are in your 20s and 30s. If you have kids later, you have difficulty because you can't go for possibly days with little or no sleep. You don't have as much stamina for chasing kids around. You want to take it easy, and they are revved up with childhood energy, and can't. And it's bad for them because you have more and better stuff. When we had the first three, all our furniture was hand-me-downs, and it didn't matter if something was scratched or broken. Now we have good stuff and we care if it is wrecked." This is a man who was always the centre of his community, and the most vigorous person I have known for his age.

My best friend had a daughter at 42. Her boyfriend left her as soon as he knew she was pregnant, so she raised her daughter as a single mother. She died the day she was 60. She isn't the only person I know who is in our age bracket who has died recently in their 60s. It happens more frequently than I expected. To many people who are apparently as fit and well as those who aren't. Although many people do last well into their 70s, I suspect that it is wishful thinking for you to expect to last well into your 80s or 90s - no country has those life expectancies. My friend really wanted her daughter, and I was amazed at the life changes she made to be able to look after her. I think you may be significantly underestimating the differences that having a child will make to your life, and the difficulties there are in being a single parent.

I also had an acquaintance who decided to have children even though she would be a single mum. She said that no-one was against it. I really got stuck into her about that (especially as she had been admitted to mental health institutions several times), and certainly take umbrage at your suggestion that no-one is against single mothers by choice. I am still quite opposed to it and think that IVF for single women shouldn't exist. However, it does. My problems with single parents by choice are mainly because it is much more difficult for a child to end up with no parents, if it initially has two.

I also wonder what problems you will find with being a single father. I suspect that, even if your child is a boy, there will be some much more challenging times than there would be for a single mother, especially with the way men with children are looked at strangely, when women aren't. One of the men on the forum told a story of having his daughter taken from him when he crossed a border, and it was her screams that made the border people start to believe his story (if I'm correct, he had sole custody). Men also tend to get preference in all sorts of things - jobs... If you are a single parent, will you change to being treated like a woman?

Lastly, your plans include living in a LCOL country. I suspect this means a third world country. This really raises my concerns. Children die in third world countries because there are diseases which are not prevalent in developed countries. Natural disasters tend to have more impact on the population of an area than a similar one in a developed country. Two small children in my family (with their mother) lived in a refugee shelter for several months after one such disaster in a third world country. Also, how can you have a close family environment for your child if you both live in another country?

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #124 on: January 02, 2019, 09:04:04 PM »
I always wanted to have kids and I have two of them.  I love spending all my time with them but I know my limitations and I know it would be extremely difficult to do it on my own, even if I was FIRE.

I think you should be the fun uncle and travel the world.

Thanks. I want one, not two, which would be exhausting. Iíll have help along the way.

If none of it works out, funcle is what Iíll be (Iím already great at it and love it), and will travel always, with a kid or on my own.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #125 on: January 02, 2019, 09:07:01 PM »
MTD - If you put the effort in to parenting that you have fighting for it (that we have seen) and it's just one child, I think you'll be OK either way.  Having a child is not some great salvation from general life problems but one child does not overwhelm a single parent that can do it.  I really don't have a definitive instruction to your conundrum because you are the definition of a grey area.  There is no clear answer to your question, even if you ran a simulation a million times and analyzed the data and had a conclusion from that.  Even then I would not rule out either avenue.

Thanks for that. Yes, that is my conundrum. If I didnít have my job, money and what Iíve learned from MMM, this would be beyond my reach. But itís right there at being possible, doable and yet not infallible, but what is when it comes to kids and parenting?

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #126 on: January 02, 2019, 09:35:03 PM »
We each have our own experiences to think through and guide us in our decisions. My experiences come down firmly on the "no child" side. There are several reasons, all of which have been (I think) only marginally mentioned...

My uncle had three kids, then a break of 15 years, then two more. One Christmas he was talking about being an older father. He said it was a mistake. As near as I remember it (it really stuck with me) "The human body is made to be able to keep up with young kids when you are in your 20s and 30s. If you have kids later, you have difficulty because you can't go for possibly days with little or no sleep. You don't have as much stamina for chasing kids around. You want to take it easy, and they are revved up with childhood energy, and can't. And it's bad for them because you have more and better stuff. When we had the first three, all our furniture was hand-me-downs, and it didn't matter if something was scratched or broken. Now we have good stuff and we care if it is wrecked." This is a man who was always the centre of his community, and the most vigorous person I have known for his age.

My best friend had a daughter at 42. Her boyfriend left her as soon as he knew she was pregnant, so she raised her daughter as a single mother. She died the day she was 60. She isn't the only person I know who is in our age bracket who has died recently in their 60s. It happens more frequently than I expected. To many people who are apparently as fit and well as those who aren't. Although many people do last well into their 70s, I suspect that it is wishful thinking for you to expect to last well into your 80s or 90s - no country has those life expectancies. My friend really wanted her daughter, and I was amazed at the life changes she made to be able to look after her. I think you may be significantly underestimating the differences that having a child will make to your life, and the difficulties there are in being a single parent.

I also had an acquaintance who decided to have children even though she would be a single mum. She said that no-one was against it. I really got stuck into her about that (especially as she had been admitted to mental health institutions several times), and certainly take umbrage at your suggestion that no-one is against single mothers by choice. I am still quite opposed to it and think that IVF for single women shouldn't exist. However, it does. My problems with single parents by choice are mainly because it is much more difficult for a child to end up with no parents, if it initially has two.

I also wonder what problems you will find with being a single father. I suspect that, even if your child is a boy, there will be some much more challenging times than there would be for a single mother, especially with the way men with children are looked at strangely, when women aren't. One of the men on the forum told a story of having his daughter taken from him when he crossed a border, and it was her screams that made the border people start to believe his story (if I'm correct, he had sole custody). Men also tend to get preference in all sorts of things - jobs... If you are a single parent, will you change to being treated like a woman?

Lastly, your plans include living in a LCOL country. I suspect this means a third world country. This really raises my concerns. Children die in third world countries because there are diseases which are not prevalent in developed countries. Natural disasters tend to have more impact on the population of an area than a similar one in a developed country. Two small children in my family (with their mother) lived in a refugee shelter for several months after one such disaster in a third world country. Also, how can you have a close family environment for your child if you both live in another country?

Ok, lots to unpack here and donít get me wrong, your stories scare the crap out of me. They are indeed possible. I guess, anything is possible. You could also have someone tell traumatic stories of parents in their 20s and 30s who have regretted children, been abandoned, died early, etc. Those stories donít deter those people.  No one gets guarantees but we canít stop living.

Your uncle: I canít imagine anything worse than regretting children, and having messed up furniture as one of the reasons. Yes, the energy thing will be an issue. I know that. So Iíll have to have an au pair or nanny or manny or whoever to help me out. Takes a village and all. Iíll also try to keep the kid in sports and other activities to give outlets for that energy. That will give me rest and recharge time to play. Any different than parents who work 40-60 hours and then have to play with the kids, but give them an iPad instead?

Your friend who passed at 60: how horrible, sorry to hear. Canít do much about death. It could happen tomorrow or 50 years from now. It will most likely happen at some point within that timeframe. No one knows their number, ever. I grew up with 2 kids who lost their dad when they were 1. Again, no one stops having kids cause the could die. Iíve got nothing to go on but my own parents, both in their late 60s and still active. Both have lead riskier lives than I have (both smokers or ex smokers). Grandmother in her mid 90s (ex smoker).

Single mom through IVF: well, youíre entitled to your opinion about what women should be able to do with their bodies and plan their families, but Iíll disagree. Whether they chose to be a single mom or it happened to them by circumstance, it happens, all the time and they survive and the kids survive. Easy? No. Weíve had 2 presidents (Clinton and Obama) raised by single moms. Half of marriages end in divorce, as soon as they do, all the one that involve children become single parent households until a new partner is found. Youíre condemning s large portion of people.

Single father problems: This one I think about a lot, because itís definitely real. It, btw, has nothing to do with age. There are lots of single fathers out there and yes, weíll need to navigate all of that. I was just at the airport and watched this father deal with the issue of taking his daughter to the bathroomóhe didnít want to let her go to the ladies alone but when he took her into the menís, there were too many trying to get to the urinals. It was awkward. Iím sure they worked something out. Because, thatís what you do. Humans figure out a way. I will need to be prepared for the, is this your child, where is the mother, has she granted permission for travel type discussions. And fair enough. Some men steal and do awful things to children. I will be prepared for this because I will have to be.

LCOL: Well, Iím thinking Buenos Aires, Panama, Portugal, Budapest, Spain, France, Thailand, Malaysia or Malta. The places generally listed as great, affordable places for retirees. They might be 3rd world to you, I think weíll be ok. My plan is to be retired after 4-6 years. Weíll either fly to family for extended times or fly them to us.

LadyMaWhiskers

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #127 on: January 02, 2019, 10:02:41 PM »

Now for something I'm actually curious about: what are you doing 20 hours a week for exercise?!?!?!

M-F, I do 30-40m of HIIT workouts, plus 1-1.5 hours of walking to and from work. Sometimes ride the bike as well. Also, have a hobby sport I have lessons for 1.5 hrs during the week. All of this, except the walk home is before work.

On the weekends, I do my workouts, bike rides and play my hobby sport for at least 5-7 hours.

If you do have a kid, expect that 20 hr/wk to drop to about 5-7 hr/wk.


Ok, so if you have a kid like mine, who cries for six months straight unless being walked, youíre plenty fit. Parenthood (baby time at least) will kill your short-term memory anyway. In fact, we all lose cognitive strength starting in the 30s, so no surprise youíve noticed. Spell-check/autocorrect is killing all our spelling instincts. It sounds like your plan to be thoughtful about whatever health issues or risks you have. As far as the memory decline, which is expected, and not separate from the age question, you may want to ask some friends/relatives if they have noticed a change. My mother for example frets every time she canít find a word in the moment, and I can honestly tell her, she is the same as ever. Nothing like, e.g., her brother, whose memory/reasoning faltered noticably, 10 years before he fully succumbed to dementia.

Malkynn

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #128 on: January 02, 2019, 10:38:06 PM »
Dude...

You asking for advice here is like flipping a coin just to see if you are relieved or disappointed by the result.

You know what you want to do. You really don't need us to tell you anything.
Is having a kid at your age, alone, a rational idea?
Uh...no. Obviously not.

However, having a child at any age, under any circumstance is not a rational idea.
People don't have children rationally, for rational reasons, under rational circumstances, and with rational timing.
Having kids isn't rational, it's an instinct, and either the instinct is strong enough to overcome reason, or it isn't.

There isn't a damn rational reason under the sun for you to have a biological child other than, well, you fucking want one and may not feel satisfied with your life unless you have one.

Only you can know if you will be able to feel fulfilled without a child of your own. Don't feel bad about it either, it's a damn instinct, and you are absolutely right, you will be a better dad than many out there. There is no rational reason why you shouldn't be a dad while other shit dads make babies every day. Granted, that would be an insane reason to have a baby if you didn't want one.

See what I mean?
Logic doesn't matter.

You either want it or you don't. There's nothing inherently selfless or selfish about having a child if you have the basic capacity to provide for it and love it, it's just what you feel you need to do or it isn't. Don't get bogged down in any other questions because none of them actually matter, even though they seem that they do.

Having kids is brutal, it's exhausting, it's expensive, and it's absolutely abysmally terrible for your mental health according to all existing metrics out there. Still, it's also considered one of the most satisfying things that can give you the greatest sense of purpose in life.

You see, it's not a lifestyle choice, it's a calling.

So. Is this something you need or not?

MrUpwardlyMobile

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #129 on: January 02, 2019, 10:41:18 PM »
Dude...

You asking for advice here is like flipping a coin just to see if you are relieved or disappointed by the result.

You know what you want to do. You really don't need us to tell you anything.
Is having a kid at your age, alone, a rational idea?
Uh...no. Obviously not.

However, having a child at any age, under any circumstance is not a rational idea.
People don't have children rationally, for rational reasons, under rational circumstances, and with rational timing.
Having kids isn't rational, it's an instinct, and either the instinct is strong enough to overcome reason, or it isn't.

There isn't a damn rational reason under the sun for you to have a biological child other than, well, you fucking want one and may not feel satisfied with your life unless you have one.

Only you can know if you will be able to feel fulfilled without a child of your own. Don't feel bad about it either, it's a damn instinct, and you are absolutely right, you will be a better dad than many out there. There is no rational reason why you shouldn't be a dad while other shit dads make babies every day. Granted, that would be an insane reason to have a baby if you didn't want one.

See what I mean?
Logic doesn't matter.

You either want it or you don't. There's nothing inherently selfless or selfish about having a child if you have the basic capacity to provide for it and love it, it's just what you feel you need to do or it isn't. Don't get bogged down in any other questions because none of them actually matter, even though they seem that they do.

Having kids is brutal, it's exhausting, it's expensive, and it's absolutely abysmally terrible for your mental health according to all existing metrics out there. Still, it's also considered one of the most satisfying things that can give you the greatest sense of purpose in life.

You see, it's not a lifestyle choice, it's a calling.

So. Is this something you need or not?

Malkynn cuts to the chase as usual.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #130 on: January 02, 2019, 10:45:06 PM »

Now for something I'm actually curious about: what are you doing 20 hours a week for exercise?!?!?!

M-F, I do 30-40m of HIIT workouts, plus 1-1.5 hours of walking to and from work. Sometimes ride the bike as well. Also, have a hobby sport I have lessons for 1.5 hrs during the week. All of this, except the walk home is before work.

On the weekends, I do my workouts, bike rides and play my hobby sport for at least 5-7 hours.

If you do have a kid, expect that 20 hr/wk to drop to about 5-7 hr/wk.


Ok, so if you have a kid like mine, who cries for six months straight unless being walked, youíre plenty fit. Parenthood (baby time at least) will kill your short-term memory anyway. In fact, we all lose cognitive strength starting in the 30s, so no surprise youíve noticed. Spell-check/autocorrect is killing all our spelling instincts. It sounds like your plan to be thoughtful about whatever health issues or risks you have. As far as the memory decline, which is expected, and not separate from the age question, you may want to ask some friends/relatives if they have noticed a change. My mother for example frets every time she canít find a word in the moment, and I can honestly tell her, she is the same as ever. Nothing like, e.g., her brother, whose memory/reasoning faltered noticably, 10 years before he fully succumbed to dementia.

Thanks, this is what most tell me and no, no one has noticed anything different. Itís tiny things that really only I notice but they seem big cause you think, hey, I never had problems spelling initiative before!?! (That was todayís one and yeah, spell check might be the culprit). Lol

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #131 on: January 02, 2019, 10:57:31 PM »
Dude...

You asking for advice here is like flipping a coin just to see if you are relieved or disappointed by the result.

You know what you want to do. You really don't need us to tell you anything.
Is having a kid at your age, alone, a rational idea?
Uh...no. Obviously not.

However, having a child at any age, under any circumstance is not a rational idea.
People don't have children rationally, for rational reasons, under rational circumstances, and with rational timing.
Having kids isn't rational, it's an instinct, and either the instinct is strong enough to overcome reason, or it isn't.

There isn't a damn rational reason under the sun for you to have a biological child other than, well, you fucking want one and may not feel satisfied with your life unless you have one.

Only you can know if you will be able to feel fulfilled without a child of your own. Don't feel bad about it either, it's a damn instinct, and you are absolutely right, you will be a better dad than many out there. There is no rational reason why you shouldn't be a dad while other shit dads make babies every day. Granted, that would be an insane reason to have a baby if you didn't want one.

See what I mean?
Logic doesn't matter.

You either want it or you don't. There's nothing inherently selfless or selfish about having a child if you have the basic capacity to provide for it and love it, it's just what you feel you need to do or it isn't. Don't get bogged down in any other questions because none of them actually matter, even though they seem that they do.

Having kids is brutal, it's exhausting, it's expensive, and it's absolutely abysmally terrible for your mental health according to all existing metrics out there. Still, it's also considered one of the most satisfying things that can give you the greatest sense of purpose in life.

You see, it's not a lifestyle choice, it's a calling.

So. Is this something you need or not?

Thank you for this. I posted this as a means to make it real to think through and hear from this group, that have been so good at helping others. It hasnít let me down. I had almost given up on this idea when the marriage ended, but then I did an exercise around my goals and what I really want and I had to include having a kid. Then I had to think, how now would that be possible and is it too late?

I never wanted to be an old dad. Never. But I want to be a dad and one thing Iíve discovered, Iím not quite as old as I thought. Meaning, sure there are changes, but in many ways I still feel 30. I donít think I think old, just have some experience. Iíve gone on some recent vacations where Iíve been up at the crack of dawn, walking for hours, learning and exploring and then getting to bed late. When I work, Iím exhausted but when I want the energy for things I enjoy, itís there. So yeah, Iíd love to see my kid into the kidís 70s and meet the great grands, that wonít be possible. But I can still have years of being s loving dad. And that excites me as it always has. Iíve always wanted to be a dad, always.

And the desire might not be rational but I sure as hell will approach everything I do as rationally as possible. But Iíll also just be me and I have great instincts with kids. And the very idea fills me with such joy. Iím fine with the sleepless nights and all the rites of passage for parenthood.

Malkynn

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #132 on: January 02, 2019, 11:07:22 PM »
Dude...

You asking for advice here is like flipping a coin just to see if you are relieved or disappointed by the result.

You know what you want to do. You really don't need us to tell you anything.
Is having a kid at your age, alone, a rational idea?
Uh...no. Obviously not.

However, having a child at any age, under any circumstance is not a rational idea.
People don't have children rationally, for rational reasons, under rational circumstances, and with rational timing.
Having kids isn't rational, it's an instinct, and either the instinct is strong enough to overcome reason, or it isn't.

There isn't a damn rational reason under the sun for you to have a biological child other than, well, you fucking want one and may not feel satisfied with your life unless you have one.

Only you can know if you will be able to feel fulfilled without a child of your own. Don't feel bad about it either, it's a damn instinct, and you are absolutely right, you will be a better dad than many out there. There is no rational reason why you shouldn't be a dad while other shit dads make babies every day. Granted, that would be an insane reason to have a baby if you didn't want one.

See what I mean?
Logic doesn't matter.

You either want it or you don't. There's nothing inherently selfless or selfish about having a child if you have the basic capacity to provide for it and love it, it's just what you feel you need to do or it isn't. Don't get bogged down in any other questions because none of them actually matter, even though they seem that they do.

Having kids is brutal, it's exhausting, it's expensive, and it's absolutely abysmally terrible for your mental health according to all existing metrics out there. Still, it's also considered one of the most satisfying things that can give you the greatest sense of purpose in life.

You see, it's not a lifestyle choice, it's a calling.

So. Is this something you need or not?

Malkynn cuts to the chase as usual.

lol, even after disappearing for awhile, my reputation precedes me.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 11:12:26 PM by Malkynn »

Malkynn

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #133 on: January 02, 2019, 11:22:03 PM »
Dude...

You asking for advice here is like flipping a coin just to see if you are relieved or disappointed by the result.

You know what you want to do. You really don't need us to tell you anything.
Is having a kid at your age, alone, a rational idea?
Uh...no. Obviously not.

However, having a child at any age, under any circumstance is not a rational idea.
People don't have children rationally, for rational reasons, under rational circumstances, and with rational timing.
Having kids isn't rational, it's an instinct, and either the instinct is strong enough to overcome reason, or it isn't.

There isn't a damn rational reason under the sun for you to have a biological child other than, well, you fucking want one and may not feel satisfied with your life unless you have one.

Only you can know if you will be able to feel fulfilled without a child of your own. Don't feel bad about it either, it's a damn instinct, and you are absolutely right, you will be a better dad than many out there. There is no rational reason why you shouldn't be a dad while other shit dads make babies every day. Granted, that would be an insane reason to have a baby if you didn't want one.

See what I mean?
Logic doesn't matter.

You either want it or you don't. There's nothing inherently selfless or selfish about having a child if you have the basic capacity to provide for it and love it, it's just what you feel you need to do or it isn't. Don't get bogged down in any other questions because none of them actually matter, even though they seem that they do.

Having kids is brutal, it's exhausting, it's expensive, and it's absolutely abysmally terrible for your mental health according to all existing metrics out there. Still, it's also considered one of the most satisfying things that can give you the greatest sense of purpose in life.

You see, it's not a lifestyle choice, it's a calling.

So. Is this something you need or not?

Thank you for this. I posted this as a means to make it real to think through and hear from this group, that have been so good at helping others. It hasnít let me down. I had almost given up on this idea when the marriage ended, but then I did an exercise around my goals and what I really want and I had to include having a kid. Then I had to think, how now would that be possible and is it too late?

I never wanted to be an old dad. Never. But I want to be a dad and one thing Iíve discovered, Iím not quite as old as I thought. Meaning, sure there are changes, but in many ways I still feel 30. I donít think I think old, just have some experience. Iíve gone on some recent vacations where Iíve been up at the crack of dawn, walking for hours, learning and exploring and then getting to bed late. When I work, Iím exhausted but when I want the energy for things I enjoy, itís there. So yeah, Iíd love to see my kid into the kidís 70s and meet the great grands, that wonít be possible. But I can still have years of being s loving dad. And that excites me as it always has. Iíve always wanted to be a dad, always.

And the desire might not be rational but I sure as hell will approach everything I do as rationally as possible. But Iíll also just be me and I have great instincts with kids. And the very idea fills me with such joy. Iím fine with the sleepless nights and all the rites of passage for parenthood.

If you don't have a baby, are you going to be here in a decade writing whiny, bitter posts about how travel and money aren't worth it compared to being a father???

Answer that and you have your answer.

Seriously though, as you said yourself, you posted here to make the question real, not to get actual advice from weirdos on a personal finance forum. That would be really demented...but I'm sure you realize that...right?

It's okay to want something irrational. It's okay if no one thinks it's a sane idea (it's not btw, but who cares what I think? I would say that to anyone contemplating kids). It's okay to need it. 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 11:24:03 PM by Malkynn »

Minnowstache

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #134 on: January 03, 2019, 12:33:52 AM »
I say go for it - but hurry up! It can take a good couple of years at least for surrogacy so you need to start making real steps now or it WILL be too late.

I, for some reason, have many female friends who have decided to have children in their late forties - and none of them regret it. At least 3 of my close friends had theirs at 48-49 with partners 10 years older than them. None of them are single parents but I am not sure that matters a lot. The maturity, financial security and ability to work part time if you are FI is a big bonus. One friendís husband K is in his 70s and has had a wonderful time with his 2 boys - (his kids are now 13 and 15) - he and my husband did the elementary school pick up every day and used to sit in what they called ďcodgers cornerĒ waiting for the kids to come out of school and then walked home with them - they said it was very eye opening listening to the younger mothers gossip :) 

K still gets short term contracts for govt who need his expertise so keeps up to date and is also involved in local politics - he also has a blog he posts in 1-3 per DAY :) So he is no old fogey.

I say this even though my mother had me at 40 then died when I was 5 at 45 - I spent part of my childhood with an unreliable father, in an orphanage for 3 years and then with an abusive step-mother but my mother was wonderful and I still have strong memories of her (I am now 52) and I am so glad she had me against all the advice of the time.

I am also going to disagree with the children are hard and require sacrifice and extreme emotional energy. I think it depends on who you are. I had mine at 35  and 37 which was considered old at the time and my dh is 10 years older than me. I went back to work when my first child, a son, was 11 weeks old and dh was the caregiver until he was 6 months old - he was 45 at the time and it was fine. You are right that a nanny or au pair can help relieve the pressure if you need it (I had mine in childcare rather than Nannies but would have had an au pair as well as childcare if I had been a single mother - a work colleague does that).

I have worked fulltime ever since - my dh is now in his 60s and my kids are 15 and 16. My daughter at 15 is going through a bit of a rough teenage patch but that is the first time I have felt an emotional toll. My son has moderate learning difficulties but we just got some tutors, hassled the school to get what he needs and move on - I donít spend a lot of time on introspection.

I also host international students - I have two girls - both 15 at the moment.

We basically just get on with it.

I think if you are truly a loving parent any time you spend with them is good time. I am frankly appalled by the commenters above who resent ďhaving to care for their parents in their 20sĒ - if they are that selfish just put the parent in a home and visit once a week and be done with it. Otherwise care for them lovingly and be greatful you had the opportunity to share time with them (please donít misunderstand me as I do know that seeing a parent degenerate in front of you is hard - I understand the anguish and sorrow just not resentment).

« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 12:50:49 AM by Minnowstache »

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #135 on: January 03, 2019, 01:03:17 AM »
I say go for it - but hurry up! It can take a good couple of years at least for surrogacy so you need to start making real steps now or it WILL be too late.

I, for some reason, have many female friends who have decided to have children in their late forties - and none of them regret it. At least 3 of my close friends had theirs at 48-49 with partners 10 years older than them. None of them are single parents but I am not sure that matters a lot. The maturity, financial security and ability to work part time if you are FI is a big bonus. One friendís husband K is in his 70s and has had a wonderful time with his 2 boys - (his kids are now 13 and 15) - he and my husband did the elementary school pick up every day and used to sit in what they called ďcodgers cornerĒ waiting for the kids to come out of school and then walked home with them - they said it was very eye opening listening to the younger mothers gossip :) 

K still gets short term contracts for govt who need his expertise so keeps up to date and is also involved in local politics - he also has a blog he posts in 1-3 per DAY :) So he is no old fogey.

I say this even though my mother had me at 40 then died when I was 5 at 45 - I spent part of my childhood with an unreliable father, in an orphanage for 3 years and then with an abusive step-mother but my mother was wonderful and I still have strong memories of her (I am now 52) and I am so glad she had me against all the advice of the time.

I am also going to disagree with the children are hard and require sacrifice and extreme emotional energy. I think it depends on who you are. I had mine at 35  and 37 which was considered old at the time and my dh is 10 years older than me. I went back to work when my first child, a son, was 11 weeks old and dh was the caregiver until he was 6 months old - he was 45 at the time and it was fine. You are right that a nanny or au pair can help relieve the pressure if you need it (I had mine in childcare rather than Nannies but would have had an au pair as well as childcare if I had been a single mother - a work colleague does that).

I have worked fulltime ever since - my dh is now in his 60s and my kids are 15 and 16. My daughter at 15 is going through a bit of a rough teenage patch but that is the first time I have felt an emotional toll. My son has moderate learning difficulties but we just got some tutors, hassled the school to get what he needs and move on - I donít spend a lot of time on introspection.

I also host international students - I have two girls - both 15 at the moment.

We basically just get on with it.

I think if you are truly a loving parent any time you spend with them is good time. I am frankly appalled by the commenters above who resent ďhaving to care for their parents in their 20sĒ - if they are that selfish just put the parent in a home and visit once a week and be done with it. Otherwise care for them lovingly and be greatful you had the opportunity to share time with them (please donít misunderstand me as I do know that seeing a parent degenerate in front of you is hard - I understand the anguish and sorrow just not resentment).

Thank you so much for this. Yes, if I do this, Iíll start in August and cross fingers. Thereís no way Iíd ever regret if it could happen. Iím sorry to hear about your Mom but glad you have some fond memories.

Minnowstache

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #136 on: January 03, 2019, 01:23:32 AM »
With your timeframe, August sounds a long way away to me :) is there something stopping you starting sooner - at least get it underway - if you were planning on your surrogate being pregnant by August then that is another matter.

 I am not sure what country you are in (I am not in the US either) but have you considered South Africa? (I am not in SA btw). One friend did IVF there in February and the costs are very reasonable and they were very ok about older mothers (and fathers - her partner is 55) they had a boy in October.  I am not sure about surrogacy but I suspect it would be cheaper than the US.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #137 on: January 03, 2019, 01:31:17 AM »
With your timeframe, August sounds a long way away to me :) is there something stopping you starting sooner - at least get it underway - if you were planning on your surrogate being pregnant by August then that is another matter.

 I am not sure what country you are in (I am not in the US either) but have you considered South Africa? (I am not in SA btw). One friend did IVF there in February and the costs are very reasonable and they were very ok about older mothers (and fathers - her partner is 55) they had a boy in October.  I am not sure about surrogacy but I suspect it would be cheaper than the US.

Iíll look into SA to see if being a single father is an issue. Sometimes it is.

I had been on a strategy of just investing and would either need to withdraw that money, or stop investing and hold on to the cash for the surrogacy. Iím thinking that the saving the cash is the best option and by Aug I would have enough to get everything started.

deborah

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #138 on: January 03, 2019, 02:19:40 AM »
Thanks for your reply. I said it badly about my uncle. He felt the younger kids had a worse time because of the good stuff - it was unfair for them.

Yes, we all have our own opinions, and the woman wanting IVF was only a couple of months after my best friendís death, so parental mortality was pretty high in my mind, and the whole situation was just so wrong - she didnít work, lived off her parents (who had serious health problems), and was about to have what became three children (she continued until she got a girl). I havenít seen anyone else in that situation, so I might be far more mellow if the next was a woman in a situation more similar to yours. Thanks for pointing out that my opinion was a bit over the top!

I wish you luck with your final decision.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #139 on: January 03, 2019, 03:37:05 AM »
With your timeframe, August sounds a long way away to me :) is there something stopping you starting sooner - at least get it underway - if you were planning on your surrogate being pregnant by August then that is another matter.

 I am not sure what country you are in (I am not in the US either) but have you considered South Africa? (I am not in SA btw). One friend did IVF there in February and the costs are very reasonable and they were very ok about older mothers (and fathers - her partner is 55) they had a boy in October.  I am not sure about surrogacy but I suspect it would be cheaper than the US.

From what I can find, I think you need to reside in SA for surrogacy. Only the US has the necessary legal protections for single men, every place else is taking a huge risk. The Ukraine would have been perfect but you must be married and my ex was terrified to go there.

mm1970

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #140 on: January 03, 2019, 09:14:16 AM »

Now for something I'm actually curious about: what are you doing 20 hours a week for exercise?!?!?!

M-F, I do 30-40m of HIIT workouts, plus 1-1.5 hours of walking to and from work. Sometimes ride the bike as well. Also, have a hobby sport I have lessons for 1.5 hrs during the week. All of this, except the walk home is before work.

On the weekends, I do my workouts, bike rides and play my hobby sport for at least 5-7 hours.

If you do have a kid, expect that 20 hr/wk to drop to about 5-7 hr/wk.
Yep.  Which is still a good amount.  You just have to aim for efficiency.

mm1970

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #141 on: January 03, 2019, 09:18:53 AM »

Now for something I'm actually curious about: what are you doing 20 hours a week for exercise?!?!?!

M-F, I do 30-40m of HIIT workouts, plus 1-1.5 hours of walking to and from work. Sometimes ride the bike as well. Also, have a hobby sport I have lessons for 1.5 hrs during the week. All of this, except the walk home is before work.

On the weekends, I do my workouts, bike rides and play my hobby sport for at least 5-7 hours.

I guess this is obvious, but all this is going to go by the wayside when you're a single dad.  I exercise during lunch breaks at work (gym is in my building) and walk to and from work but with a husband who works weekends other exercise is very difficult.  You can't leave the kid by him/herself while you go run in the park.

Well, you can...thing is, you need to "think outside the box" with kids.  Or just watch other parents.

From the age of 0-3, you can run/ walk with a kid in the jogging stroller/ ergo/ backpack.  And you can go for a long time. 
Maybe those gym workouts turn into "at home" workouts.  When my big kid was 4, my husband started traveling a lot.  So I asked for (and got) P90X for Christmas.

These days, he still travels a lot and I'm not quite ready to leave the 12 & 6 yo's together at home alone first thing in the morning.

Once the kid is aged 5-9, it gets trickier.  They can walk/ hike with you, but not very fast or very far.  Those are the tough "exercise" years.  After that, they can join you running, walking, biking, hiking, swimming.

I manage with at-home workouts, lunch time walks, etc.  Others manage with treadmills or the daycare at the gym.

mm1970

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #142 on: January 03, 2019, 09:33:52 AM »
Quote
My uncle had three kids, then a break of 15 years, then two more. One Christmas he was talking about being an older father. He said it was a mistake. As near as I remember it (it really stuck with me) "The human body is made to be able to keep up with young kids when you are in your 20s and 30s. If you have kids later, you have difficulty because you can't go for possibly days with little or no sleep. You don't have as much stamina for chasing kids around. You want to take it easy, and they are revved up with childhood energy, and can't. And it's bad for them because you have more and better stuff. When we had the first three, all our furniture was hand-me-downs, and it didn't matter if something was scratched or broken. Now we have good stuff and we care if it is wrecked." This is a man who was always the centre of his community, and the most vigorous person I have known for his age.

My best friend had a daughter at 42. Her boyfriend left her as soon as he knew she was pregnant, so she raised her daughter as a single mother. She died the day she was 60. She isn't the only person I know who is in our age bracket who has died recently in their 60s. It happens more frequently than I expected. To many people who are apparently as fit and well as those who aren't. Although many people do last well into their 70s, I suspect that it is wishful thinking for you to expect to last well into your 80s or 90s - no country has those life expectancies. My friend really wanted her daughter, and I was amazed at the life changes she made to be able to look after her. I think you may be significantly underestimating the differences that having a child will make to your life, and the difficulties there are in being a single parent.

This kinda makes me sad, because of a few things:
I'm the 8th of 9 kids.  My dad was 44 when I was born, 46 when my brother was born.

Gee, I cannot imagine NOT BEING HERE, you know?
My dad was plenty fit.  The thing is, he was more "old school" and "hands off" as a parent.  Having an older parent absolutely did not suck for me - his personality as a parent wasn't the best.  (As an aside, he was widowed young, and so my older sisters had a VASTLY different experience from me.  He was a very "hands on" dad back when that was NOT DONE, simply because he had NO CHOICE.  I hadn't known that until a few years ago.)

Sure, when you are older it can be harder to keep up with kids.  Can be.  Doesn't mean it will be.  I mean, look at what people used to live like, look like, and be like at 50 just 50 years ago, compared to now?  People live a lot longer.  Many people live much healthier lives than back then.  Heck my paternal grandfather died in 1940.  He was 48 years old.  My dad lived to be almost 82.  My husband and I are plenty able to keep up with our kids (#2 born when I was 42 and hubby was 44).  Kids keep you active.

As far as dying at 60 goes...that happens.  But anything can happen.  A few years ago, a local young mom of 41 died of the flu, leaving young twins.  A friend of mine died at 50 of breast cancer.  People die in car accidents all the time.  I mean, would you rather live and have a parent die when you are a teenager or not live at all?

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #143 on: January 03, 2019, 11:01:38 AM »
Thanks MM1970, for all of that. I can at this point do a 10-20 min HIIT workout that would burn calories all day in almost any environment. The first 6-9 months might be a challenge, but after that it should be doable. Iím happy to put all of that on hold if I have to. From 5-9 the kid would be in school so Iíll have time then for my own thing, and Iíll be retired so no other demands.

honeybbq

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #144 on: January 03, 2019, 12:52:50 PM »

Now for something I'm actually curious about: what are you doing 20 hours a week for exercise?!?!?!

M-F, I do 30-40m of HIIT workouts, plus 1-1.5 hours of walking to and from work. Sometimes ride the bike as well. Also, have a hobby sport I have lessons for 1.5 hrs during the week. All of this, except the walk home is before work.

On the weekends, I do my workouts, bike rides and play my hobby sport for at least 5-7 hours.

I'm going to be captain obvious here, but you realize if you had a child alone (let alone an infant) most of this hobby sport stuff is going to stop? I exercise a lot, but I also have another parent to help. Some gyms have day care, but you're not going to be leaving your kid in the gym daycare for 7 hours on a Saturday while you do your sports.

We bought a treadmill and I have a bike on a trainer and that helps get in some exercise in the evening/late hours (or early morning).

It can be done, but there's always a compromise.

Are you planning on putting your child in day care for the first years? They won't be going to school until they are 5. So there are limited options for getting alone time IME.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 12:57:58 PM by honeybbq »

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #145 on: January 03, 2019, 03:40:10 PM »

Now for something I'm actually curious about: what are you doing 20 hours a week for exercise?!?!?!

M-F, I do 30-40m of HIIT workouts, plus 1-1.5 hours of walking to and from work. Sometimes ride the bike as well. Also, have a hobby sport I have lessons for 1.5 hrs during the week. All of this, except the walk home is before work.

On the weekends, I do my workouts, bike rides and play my hobby sport for at least 5-7 hours.

I'm going to be captain obvious here, but you realize if you had a child alone (let alone an infant) most of this hobby sport stuff is going to stop? I exercise a lot, but I also have another parent to help. Some gyms have day care, but you're not going to be leaving your kid in the gym daycare for 7 hours on a Saturday while you do your sports.

We bought a treadmill and I have a bike on a trainer and that helps get in some exercise in the evening/late hours (or early morning).

It can be done, but there's always a compromise.

Are you planning on putting your child in day care for the first years? They won't be going to school until they are 5. So there are limited options for getting alone time IME.

Iíve addressed this several times so no point in repeating myself anymore.

I will be off work for year 1, with family to assist. Year 2-4, Iíll modify my work schedule and either have an au pair or live in child assistant. Might do a day or two of daycare for socialization but not a fan of it.

tyrannostache

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #146 on: January 03, 2019, 04:57:26 PM »
I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you about my experience.

I'm an older parent (turned 40 a few weeks before kid #2 was born). I suppose I did have a harder time with the newborn stage than I would have had as a younger person. And sure, I could probably have put all the energy that I put into going to raves in my 20s to better use, but I wouldn't have wanted my 25-year-old self taking care of another human. And then it took us a little longer than we expected to get pregnant both times. So here I am in my 40s with a young kid and a toddler, and I wouldn't change a thing. There's certainly more struggle in my life than there would have been without kids, but the joy is incomparable.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #147 on: January 03, 2019, 04:58:56 PM »
I just did the math. I could spend this money and achieve my FIRE goal in 7 years. Thatís 3 years longer than Iíd aim for if single, but still doable. I think the kid, all things working out, would be 5 when I retire completely. Iíd prefer to be FIREd from 2-5, but canít see that happening. Still all achieveable if I stick to a strict plan.

Fields of Gold

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #148 on: January 03, 2019, 08:47:04 PM »
Seems like one of the first actionable steps is to have your 'swimmers' evaluated by your clinic/IVF specialist.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 09:19:31 PM by Fields of Gold »

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: $100k to be a single dad or travel the world?
« Reply #149 on: January 03, 2019, 09:27:03 PM »
Seems like one of the first actionable steps is to have your 'swimmers' evaluated by your clinic/IVF specialist.

Been done.