Author Topic: When do you turn your central heating on?  (Read 5859 times)

never give up

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2018, 12:16:38 PM »
Well we can certainly call you Mr Warmpants :-) I did this one year. I had it turned down to about 9 degrees at night and 14 during the day and was sure it would never come on for 7 months of the year. As far as I knew it didnít. I found though that my bill was a lot higher in this year. Since then I have fully turned the boiler off from March/April through to Ocober and my bill fell again. I never looked into the reason why but assumed keeping it on was working the boiler harder in some way and costing me money somehow. Not sure if there are any plumbing experts able to confirm the correct procedure for central heating settings in the summer but it may be worth experimenting with ExitViaTheCashRamp.

Squelchy

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2018, 02:56:57 PM »
We recently came to the conclusion that it's a false economy to hold out, as once the walls cooled we started getting a damp issue, which would only heat loss. As autumn is the worst time for humidity, we have shifted to putting the house on a thermostat (18 degrees upstairs, which so far has triggered only once this autumn). SLTD, if you do go for thermostatic valves on the radiators, be aware that one rad must always be left without one, usually the bathroom if you have one there. I can't remember the exact reason, but it has to do with the main thermostat telling the boiler to heat, but the radiator ones telling them not to heat, and the tank therefore overheating or something like that. Also, whilst I can in no way predict the behaviour of baby SLTD, I have spent the past three winters re-adjusting the valves after mini Squelchy has gone through and changed them to whatever number is his current favourite. This, at least, is better than the time we called the plumber out because we had no hot water only to find that this too was controlled by a tempting little dial at toddler height that we hadn't known he'd spotted.

Squelchy

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2018, 03:04:08 PM »
PS re baby's room, this sounds very much like the situation we had with our old one before we moved. We did find an improvement after adding proper loft insulation. Is there any chance that might help in your situation? Failing that, cheap thermal blockout blinds (ours about £10 from Tesco) made a significant difference to heat retention. For context, this was the box room of a victorian terrace (above the kitchen) with an older double-glazed window.

sea_saw

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2018, 02:10:44 AM »
I have a top floor flat, under a reasonably well-insulated roof, so I get the benefit of the heating from the flats below me. Heating went on yesterday!

Sadly I have storage heaters, so the place is at its warmest at about 8am when I'm leaving for work, and at its coldest from 8-12pm when I'm home.

Linda_Norway

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2018, 02:42:04 AM »
We've been trying to avoid turning ours on for as long as possible but I just decided I am bloody freezing and whacked it on. I don't know what the indoor temperature was, but I was not comfortable. Have we done well or have we copped out early?

We turn it on in October. But we have a wood stove that we occasionally use in September (and often in the rest of the winter).

Yesterday evening I was cold. I put on a sweater, turned on the woodstove and put a thick blanket on my lap when watching TV. The central heating was on 20C.

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2018, 05:35:31 AM »
Your house is meant to be warm and comfortable, since you live there. If you are cold, stick the heat on (after you have layered up) :)

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2018, 06:55:17 AM »
On thermostatic valves, if the point is still relevant: AFAIK you are supposed to have them everywhere *except* the room where your main thermostat is, so that if everything else is shut down that space heats up and turns the boiler off.

On baby's rooms: Wild guess that you're in a fairly typical oldish British house with a small bedroom above the hall/stairs, which seems like a great place to store a small person, until you realise it has a lot of external walls relative to the size and it's virtually impossible to control the temperature.

On humidity:

Call it damp if you like, but in our case I'm 99% it's not coming in from outside (either from above or below), it's just the product of four people breathing (plus cooking, washing, drying clothes) in an old house which manages to be slightly draughty in places but also not actually change enough air. Makes sense to me to call it humidity.

Opening the windows in the morning is all very well, but comes with a heating cost. Also at this time of year the air outside is also pretty wet. Yes, because of how relative humidity works, outside air at the same relative humidity is drier, but still limits the difference it can make.

We're looking at dehumidifiers and various other options as a short term fix - it used to be tolerable in our place but with more bodies, more cooking, more washing, etc it's getting less so.

I think the 'proper' answer is heat recovery ventilation, which would be like leaving windows open all the time without the heating bill. Ought to be law for new-build because it's not usually terribly easy to retrofit, but given a government intent on watering down anything that might cause housebuilders to have to improve, don't hold your breath.  Think it might be practical in ours without too much upheaval, just need to somehow conjure up the mental bandwidth to deal with another project.

PhilB

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2018, 09:36:47 AM »
We recently came to the conclusion that it's a false economy to hold out, as once the walls cooled we started getting a damp issue, which would only heat loss. As autumn is the worst time for humidity, we have shifted to putting the house on a thermostat (18 degrees upstairs, which so far has triggered only once this autumn). SLTD, if you do go for thermostatic valves on the radiators, be aware that one rad must always be left without one, usually the bathroom if you have one there. I can't remember the exact reason, but it has to do with the main thermostat telling the boiler to heat, but the radiator ones telling them not to heat, and the tank therefore overheating or something like that. Also, whilst I can in no way predict the behaviour of baby SLTD, I have spent the past three winters re-adjusting the valves after mini Squelchy has gone through and changed them to whatever number is his current favourite. This, at least, is better than the time we called the plumber out because we had no hot water only to find that this too was controlled by a tempting little dial at toddler height that we hadn't known he'd spotted.
The reason to leave one rad open is that when the thermostat turns the heating on it turns on a pump to drive the hot water round the circuit.  If all your TRVs close, then the water has nowhere to go unless you have one rad permanently open.  Modern systems will also have an overpressure relief valve to deal with this problem, but better to keep that as a last line of defence.

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2018, 01:01:23 PM »
Been on for at least a month here. I think thatís a combination of me being a very cold person and it generally being colder up here than where many of you are based (very un-MMM place to live). The house would sit around 14-15 degrees without it which is too cold for me. The de-icer has already been out for the car in the mornings so thatís definitely heating time in my book.

Squelchy

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2018, 01:17:29 PM »
Re. "damp", you are quite right, I do mean humidity, and agree that if we could just refrain from breathing inside the house, it really wouldn't be a problem any more. Even so, we are having particular issues that I haven't had anywhere before with one room where we suspect that the cavity wall insulation has slumped leaving a cold bridge. As I'm not happy with having a child sleeping in a room with black mould growing on the walls until we can get it properly rectified, we're using the dehumidifier, opening windows in the morning or after a shower, heating etc to keep it all dry. Actually, I spent several days this summer making good last winter's damage there, but that's another story. We have also looked into heat recovery ventilation, but can't face the disruption right now, or the expense, as the one company who thought they could do it without ripping all of the ceilings out was a very small one who pulled out for personal reasons.

shelivesthedream

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2018, 02:11:33 PM »
To anyone who has thermostatic radiator valves: how much is it reasonable to pay for them? I thought I would try getting just the one for starters for BabySLTD's room because it overheats compared to the rest of the house but I am somewhat overwhelmed and many of them seem hugely over-engineered. I do not require something I can control from my smartphone or something that learns my radiator's inside leg measurement. I just want something that I can set at a particular temperature for that room and that's that.

never give up

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2018, 02:31:01 PM »
Mine are by Drayton. I donít know their cost individually but a quick search seems to give a range of relatively simple ones. Mine are internet free! I agree. Why does everything nowadays need to be controlled by a phone!

PhilB

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2018, 03:38:23 PM »
A bog standard TRV that just turns off that one radiator based on room temperature will set you back about a tenner from somewhere like Screwfix or Toolstation.

Linda_Norway

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2018, 01:26:43 AM »
Mine are by Drayton. I donít know their cost individually but a quick search seems to give a range of relatively simple ones. Mine are internet free! I agree. Why does everything nowadays need to be controlled by a phone!

My idea... Everything connected to the internet is vulnerable to hacking.
But it is neat if a heating system is programmable, with or without the help of a phone.

We have electric warm water heating, with floor heating, as well as some separate electric radiators in the bedrooms. The thermostat for the floor heating is not programmable, in a 7 year old house! My parents house already had a programmable thermostat 25 years ago. And our previous house had a programmable warmth pump. This is such a stupid house...
There is a switch that we could put on night temperature, which makes it 2C colder. But who wants to remember flipping this twice a day? I have of course searched the internet for a different thermostat to connect to this kettle, but it isn't available. So we have the temperature on 20C the whole day and night. Very annoying.

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2018, 03:00:53 AM »
A bog standard TRV that just turns off that one radiator based on room temperature will set you back about a tenner from somewhere like Screwfix or Toolstation.

How do you retrofit them?


PhilB

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2018, 06:33:21 AM »
A bog standard TRV that just turns off that one radiator based on room temperature will set you back about a tenner from somewhere like Screwfix or Toolstation.

How do you retrofit them?
Personally I'd drain down the system, swap the valves and then fill it back up again using the filling loop on the boiler.  It can be done without draining the system if you get a pipe freezing kit and work quickly, but I've never tried one of those myself.

shelivesthedream

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2018, 11:05:23 AM »

welshcake

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2018, 12:39:08 PM »
In South Wales; have just put the heating on for the first time this year. Aiming to just put it on for an hour or so to take the chill off.

PhilB

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2018, 11:13:23 PM »
Some are advertised that you don't need to drain the system or use special tools to install. Unclear how this works, but I'm looking at this one: https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/electronic-radiator-thermostat-model-n-eht-classic-n-p144068.html?CTYPE=0&MWSTFREE=0&PROVID=2788&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjbveBRDVARIsAKxH7vmGmcCT1CrYN4iZFrQfAVi5mxFvqccARFFdVPYAYD7kJaMZ6HcHpF0aAmnSEALw_wcB&&r=1
Looking at the instruction sheet I'm pretty sure that this product is to be installed on an existing TRV, not on an old fashioned manual valve.  TRVs work by pressing down on a small spindle as they expand and that seems to be what this does.  If someone did make one that could turn an existing manual value that would be great, but the forces involved would probably be too much for the batteries.


shelivesthedream

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #69 on: October 25, 2018, 03:51:41 AM »
Some are advertised that you don't need to drain the system or use special tools to install. Unclear how this works, but I'm looking at this one: https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/electronic-radiator-thermostat-model-n-eht-classic-n-p144068.html?CTYPE=0&MWSTFREE=0&PROVID=2788&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjbveBRDVARIsAKxH7vmGmcCT1CrYN4iZFrQfAVi5mxFvqccARFFdVPYAYD7kJaMZ6HcHpF0aAmnSEALw_wcB&&r=1
Looking at the instruction sheet I'm pretty sure that this product is to be installed on an existing TRV, not on an old fashioned manual valve.  TRVs work by pressing down on a small spindle as they expand and that seems to be what this does.  If someone did make one that could turn an existing manual value that would be great, but the forces involved would probably be too much for the batteries.

Really? I know very very little about plumbing and how heating works, but my layperson's logic was "Hey, that photo of the radiator at the end looks just like my radiator! Why yes, I can see a little unscrewy thing on my radiator of approximately the right size, and in the right place."

There also seems to be this one which is similar and makes similar installation claims but is mounted in a different place: https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/radiator-thermostat-model-m-electronic-uk-version-eht-classic-m-p227218.html?&trstct=lsbght_sldr::144068

Friar

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #70 on: October 25, 2018, 07:05:59 AM »
Call me Mr Spendypants.... it's never off. If the house is ever (all year around) below 20 degrees, then on switches the heating automatically. Well more accurately the kids room as that is where the sensor is.

 Whats worse is that my house was built in 1899, so insulation is not exactly world class.

This is also my strategy for my Victorian terrace. My Nest is set to 20C (unless ramping down for the night) all year round and the boiler manages itself to turn on or off.

Could I be more thrifty by turning down the setting? Yes. Although my partner already complains that it's too cold so I would struggle to get buy in for that.

Friar

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #71 on: October 25, 2018, 07:15:06 AM »
@shelivesthedream

Do you need a digital TRV? I just replaced 2 radiators and got free Drayton TRVs with them but they're not (and don't need to be!) digital.

You can pick them up at Screwfix for £20

https://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-rt212-white-chrome-trv-lockshield-15mm-x/53581

It does require draining the central heating system, removing the existing valves on the radiator, and refitting which might not be feasible for you.

Apparently it is possible to replace them without draining the system by closing the other valve on the radiator (to stop the water coming in/out on end) and freezing the water in the pipe that leads the valve you'll be replacing with the TRV. However, I feel there is more to go wrong with this approach.

shelivesthedream

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #72 on: October 25, 2018, 07:34:03 AM »
@shelivesthedream

Do you need a digital TRV? I just replaced 2 radiators and got free Drayton TRVs with them but they're not (and don't need to be!) digital.

You can pick them up at Screwfix for £20

https://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-rt212-white-chrome-trv-lockshield-15mm-x/53581

It does require draining the central heating system, removing the existing valves on the radiator, and refitting which might not be feasible for you.

Apparently it is possible to replace them without draining the system by closing the other valve on the radiator (to stop the water coming in/out on end) and freezing the water in the pipe that leads the valve you'll be replacing with the TRV. However, I feel there is more to go wrong with this approach.

I think this is what we have at the moment on all our radiators, but the effect of the sun on the two rooms at the front of the house is so extreme (the back is shrouded in shadow) that it really requires constant adjusting depending on season, cloud cover and time of day to maintain a moderate temperature. I am very confused by all this, though, so may be wrong.

PhilB

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #73 on: October 25, 2018, 10:01:26 AM »
If you have something about the size of a small apple on your radiator the you already have a TRV.  In that case it's just a matter of removing the head and replacing it with the digital one.  If you just have a small old fashioned nob then you don't and it becomes a much more major task.  It probably won't be any better at controlling the temperature than an old fashioned TRV, but what it will let you do is turn that room off or down at certain times of day when the rest of the heating is still running.  I'm thinking about getting some for a couple of downstairs radiators to turn them off through the night and just have them come on for the last early morning cycle.  Many reviews mention that they are too noisy for a bedroom if you are a light sleeper.

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2018, 03:29:51 AM »
I tried to turn our storage heater in the living room on last night.
However I'd forgotten that I'd switched them off at the main circuit breaker in the hallway over summer to avoid accidentally turning it on.

So looks like the heating will be going on tonight instead!

RetirementInvestingToday

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #75 on: October 27, 2018, 06:46:14 AM »
Living in the South East of England for a few more weeks and no heating on yet.

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2018, 06:59:39 AM »
I tried to turn our storage heater in the living room on last night.
However I'd forgotten that I'd switched them off at the main circuit breaker in the hallway over summer to avoid accidentally turning it on.

So looks like the heating will be going on tonight instead!

We are on storage heaters, I loathe the things because they are so difficult to control. I have looked at converting to oil but the figures don't really add up.

One thing I did do was put a digital thermometer in each room, I'm sure having an objective measure of the temperature has removed the temptation to turn the heating up.

PhilB

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2018, 11:39:35 AM »
I tried to turn our storage heater in the living room on last night.
However I'd forgotten that I'd switched them off at the main circuit breaker in the hallway over summer to avoid accidentally turning it on.

So looks like the heating will be going on tonight instead!

We are on storage heaters, I loathe the things because they are so difficult to control. I have looked at converting to oil but the figures don't really add up.

One thing I did do was put a digital thermometer in each room, I'm sure having an objective measure of the temperature has removed the temptation to turn the heating up.
I'm currently on holiday in a cottage with storage heaters.  I had forgotten how much I hate them.  We did rip them out and convert to oil.  If you do decide to replace them, I have one tip - don't ever try and carry a large storage heater downstairs on your own.  Surfing backwards down a flight of stairs on a metal-wrapped block of concrete is not an experience I ever wish to repeat.

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #78 on: November 02, 2018, 06:24:03 AM »
We've had ours "on" since September, but with the thermostat set to 16 so it's barely come on until recently. I've been coping by living under a blanket and in jumpers, drinking tea, and always taking a hot water bottle to bed. Last week DH complained of being cold, realised the temp was set low and said we should turn it up to 20! We compromised and set it to 18.

Had someone round to sweep the chimney last month because I wanted to get the woodburner ready for winter. Turns out we need a new one :( The handle fell off when the bloke opened the door, it needs new glass in the door and new clips to keep the glass in, new firebricks as they're all cracked and crumbling. I did get a second opinion who said that if I wanted to have it repaired I'd need to take the door off, take that to an engineering firm to have the clips replaced, but it's old and inefficient so I should just get a new one. Sigh, no fire on Xmas day for us! Maybe January.

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #79 on: November 02, 2018, 09:10:45 AM »
I'm currently on holiday in a cottage with storage heaters.  I had forgotten how much I hate them.  We did rip them out and convert to oil.  If you do decide to replace them, I have one tip - don't ever try and carry a large storage heater downstairs on your own.  Surfing backwards down a flight of stairs on a metal-wrapped block of concrete is not an experience I ever wish to repeat.

I have moved them but I always remove the bricks first, well after the first time anyway. :)

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #80 on: November 03, 2018, 11:19:55 AM »
I replaced my valves (they are white, cylindrical, the size of a small apple (nice description PhilB) and have the numbers 1 to 5 on the base with the 3 replaced by a black button thing, you turn the dial to make the radiator hotter or cooler) with digital ones without draining or freezing anything. It took maybe 30 seconds and was really straightforward. My digital valves are standalone, battery powered and on timers with individual temperature settings (so it can be warmer in the evening than in the morning or warmer at the weekends).

They are the absolute best and I rave about them frequently.

Heating got turned on today.

skip207

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #81 on: November 07, 2018, 01:33:12 AM »
Ours is set on 18c most of the year so it sometimes comes on and off as early as September.
I think its been firing on and off the last few weeks.  Not been on at all the last few days. 

Our UFH comes on 1st November and goes off 1st April!

Kwill

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #82 on: November 08, 2018, 08:23:51 PM »
b) My boiler has settings to just eat water for radiators, just heat water for taps, or both. That's what I've really now turned on.

I have a boiler like this, and I recently switched it to heat both. I thought that would turn on heat, but I have yet to see the radiators warm. So far I am just wearing extra layers and sitting with a light blanket, but I am starting to think it would be nice to have heat if I could figure it out.

This thread inspired me to take another look at the directions, and I think maybe it was that a little switch on the clock bit of the central heating was set to off instead of to follow the times set. Waiting to see if changing that did anything.

shelivesthedream

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2018, 04:59:09 AM »
I have just installed two programmable radiator valves! It took me fifteen minutes each from taking them out of the box to walking away. Now to see how well they work and if we want to get them for all the radiators! I put one in BabySLTD's room to stop it getting so hot (it's the only room that gets loads of sun) during the day and cold at night (stupid air vent holes in the walls), and one in the bathroom to test how it does with more complicated programming (hot for Mr SLTD's shower, then my much later shower, then BabySLTD's evening bath). Whee! Excited!

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #84 on: November 11, 2018, 02:17:08 AM »
Yay!!!!! Hope they work well for you and BabySLTD.

shelivesthedream

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2018, 11:38:23 AM »
Can confirm they are working very well! However, I am not sure about installing more. If I did, I would have:

BabySLTD: 20 degrees day, 21 degrees night
Bathroom: High for morning showers and evening bath, low the rest of the time

Proposed:
Our bedroom: High morning and late evening, medium overnight, low during day
Toilet: Medium-high during day, medium-low during night
Dining room: Medium during day, low during night
Study: Medium during day, low during night

Then we have one radiator in the hall at the bottom of the stairs, sort of on the opposite wall to the thermostat. Presumably I leave the normal valve on that one? And what do I set the thermostat to? The hall itself is very short and that one radiator heats the whole stairwell. But presumably I need the thermostat on high so that it tells the boiler to heat up water so it is always available for whichever radiators require it - otherwise they will be pumping cold water round. Would that just use up all our energy savings on permanently heating the hall to 21+ degrees?

No, I do not really understand central heating.

PhilB

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Re: When do you turn your central heating on?
« Reply #86 on: Today at 01:44:10 AM »
Can confirm they are working very well! However, I am not sure about installing more. If I did, I would have:

BabySLTD: 20 degrees day, 21 degrees night
Bathroom: High for morning showers and evening bath, low the rest of the time

Proposed:
Our bedroom: High morning and late evening, medium overnight, low during day
Toilet: Medium-high during day, medium-low during night
Dining room: Medium during day, low during night
Study: Medium during day, low during night

Then we have one radiator in the hall at the bottom of the stairs, sort of on the opposite wall to the thermostat. Presumably I leave the normal valve on that one? And what do I set the thermostat to? The hall itself is very short and that one radiator heats the whole stairwell. But presumably I need the thermostat on high so that it tells the boiler to heat up water so it is always available for whichever radiators require it - otherwise they will be pumping cold water round. Would that just use up all our energy savings on permanently heating the hall to 21+ degrees?

No, I do not really understand central heating.
Great news that the new valves are working well.  I'm afraid you'll never get the system to do exactly what you want automatically, but you should be able to get close.  The important thing is to understand how the heating works then you'll be better placed to work out how you want to operate it - don't worry, it isn't that complicated!
You'll never have a position where you are pumping cold water around the radiators, because the pump and the heating of the water work together.  Whenever the boiler is 'on' for heating it will run the pump and it will keep the water at the right temperature.  Whenever it is 'off' the pump doesn't run and the water in the pipes isn't heated.  There are probably 3 ways of turning the boiler on or off:
1. An switch on the boiler - if this is off then everything is off
2. A timer control (if you have one) - this also has to be in an 'on' phase for the boiler to run
3. The thermostat in the hall - if 1 and 2 are both 'on' this can still turn the boiler 'off' if the temperature in the hall is higher than the temperature selected.
The new valves on your radiators won't turn the boiler off, they just stop the water going through that particular radiator.  That makes it essential that one radiator is always 'on' as if all of them are close but the boiler switches on the pump will be in trouble.  Normally people opt for a bathroom for this.
You can buy very expensive systems now where the individual radiator valves each act like the wall thermostat to turn the boiler off if each room is at the desired temperature, but that would be overkill.  Instead what you need to do is firstly to set the timer, if you have one, to turn the boiler off if there are times you don't want it on at all.  For the times when it is on you may as well largely ignore the hall thermostat - just turn it up high, but turn the radiator down low (or use one of the new valves to vary it during the day).  You could then forget the thermostat, other than to use it as a manual override to switch the boiler off on a warm day.
For the rest of your radiators it's them a choice of do you a) fit programmable valves, or b) just use normal TRVs and turn them up and down manually if you want different settings at different times of the day.  The decider on that one is do you want the heating to change before you get up in the morning, other than the overall on-off that the timer (if you have one) gives.  Feel free to pm me if you need any more info.