Author Topic: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd  (Read 2004 times)

frugledoc

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UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« on: October 17, 2017, 11:08:04 AM »
Probably most mustachians pay attention on budget day which is Nov 22nd this year.

Seems very likely that there will be big changes regarding tax relief on pensions, especially for higher rate payers.

Thought I'd start the thread early so we can discuss big changes if any.

If they reduce pensions tax relief I will be opting out of my public sector pension, as I am very likely to bust through the 1 million lifetime allowance by time I retire and would rather invest my money flexibly even if it means losing the employer contribution.

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 01:58:55 PM »
Yeah, will 2017 be the year they fundamentally change pensions? Probably not, with all the other stuff going on.

But they want to be seen to be penalising high earners, I can see a reduction in annual limit for pensions from 40k to say 30k. I think the lifetime allowance is too low already and has already been culled enough.  As for the change to pension tax relief to a single rate, I don't think this is the time for a complex change....especially as it will cause a payroll nightmare if they change the basis of pension tax relief.

HMRC's system at the moment can't keep up with the tax code, I'm underpaying tax this year as their software hasn't been coded correctly. Let's see if they ever correct it and try and collect.

As for my wish list. Keep ISA allowances, keep the promised cut in corporation tax, keep income tax the same. Not too much to ask?

I can cope with the pension lifetime allowance reducing, and the annual limit reducing

TartanTallulah

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 04:33:19 PM »
I already plan to opt out of my public sector pension next March because that's when I'm due to be shuffled from the old scheme (NHS 1995) to the new scheme, with my normal pension age going from 60 to 67. Since I plan to retire soon, I'd rather take the money and invest it in a SIPP. I'm never going to trouble the lifetime allowance.

I'm a higher rate taxpayer so I'll be putting something into my SIPP before the budget. Not a huge amount, because building a cash deposit is my priority. If a flat rate of tax relief is brought in, it would make more sense to max my husband's pension contributions since he works but earns too little to pay income tax and is unlikely to pay tax in retirement.

My biggest dread is that the tax free lump sum will become taxable. That would set my FIRE plans back a little.



frugledoc

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2017, 04:52:39 PM »
Hi tartan, if you are a doctor your pension scheme changed in 2015 already.  Your 1995 scheme benefits will not change.

Taxing the lump sum seems extremely unlikely as it would be political suicide.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 04:54:31 PM by frugledoc »

TartanTallulah

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2017, 09:47:38 PM »
They did indeed, frugledoc, but I'm in the age group that didn't get switched immediately to the 2015 section and had a transitional period in which I was allowed to stay on the 1995 section (I'd chosen to ignore 2008). That comes to an end next year when I turn 54, and I get shifted on to the 2015 section. If I planned to work for a few more years I'd definitely stay in the scheme, but I don't plan to stay in my job beyond March 2019 and it's looking as if I may leave before then so I'd have a few months' worth of contributions subject to the rules of the 2015 section. Which may still be financially advantageous, in theory, but I'd prefer to be able to access the funds penalty-free and easily at 55.

I also don't think the lump sum will be made taxable yet because it would be so unpopular with a demographic that might be expected to vote Conservative, but I'm not counting on anything.





Playing with Fire UK

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 04:01:57 AM »
Three or four years ago I spent weeks stressing over what was going to happen to pension contributions in the budget.

I'm now confident enough that, even if there is a big change, it isn't going to happen overnight. Payroll and pension companies couldn't handle a change to salary sacrifice / pre-tax contributions without some time to prepare. So I'm trying to avoid speculation until we have a budget.

SpreadsheetMan

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 04:23:17 AM »
Three or four years ago I spent weeks stressing over what was going to happen to pension contributions in the budget.

I'm now confident enough that, even if there is a big change, it isn't going to happen overnight. Payroll and pension companies couldn't handle a change to salary sacrifice / pre-tax contributions without some time to prepare. So I'm trying to avoid speculation until we have a budget.

I'm trying not to stress about it. I need one more year from April 18 at £40k max contribution and that's it.

A substantial reduction in the £20k ISA allowance (and/or Capital gains allowance) would be much worse for me as I have taxable assets I need to get into a tax shelter over the next few years.

AnswerIs42

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 03:38:53 PM »
Seems very likely that there will be big changes regarding tax relief on pensions, especially for higher rate payers.

I must've heard this before every budget in the last decade :) - I'd be very surprised if it actually happened this time.

londonstache

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2017, 06:19:56 AM »
Yeah, will 2017 be the year they fundamentally change pensions? Probably not, with all the other stuff going on.

But they want to be seen to be penalising high earners, I can see a reduction in annual limit for pensions from 40k to say 30k. I think the lifetime allowance is too low already and has already been culled enough.  As for the change to pension tax relief to a single rate, I don't think this is the time for a complex change....especially as it will cause a payroll nightmare if they change the basis of pension tax relief.

HMRC's system at the moment can't keep up with the tax code, I'm underpaying tax this year as their software hasn't been coded correctly. Let's see if they ever correct it and try and collect.

As for my wish list. Keep ISA allowances, keep the promised cut in corporation tax, keep income tax the same. Not too much to ask?

I can cope with the pension lifetime allowance reducing, and the annual limit reducing

I'm still concerned that they eventually plan to scrap tax relief in the current format and move to an ISA model with a flat rate of relief (e.g. c. 25%), but I'm not sure that they can make such a radical move with a minority government.

Wish list would be no change to ISA allowances (I'd take an increase in Lifetime ISA allowance if I could have it), no tax changes apart from shifting the basic band upwards as promised and increasing the lifetime pension allowance as this is a massive PITA. Can't see the last one happening unfortunately as it reads as a tax cut "for the rich" in a newspaper headline.

cerat0n1a

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2017, 07:00:15 AM »
increasing the lifetime pension allowance as this is a massive PITA. Can't see the last one happening unfortunately as it reads as a tax cut "for the rich" in a newspaper headline.

Treasury already confirmed a month or two ago that it will rise in line with CPI in April 2018, based on the September 2017 figure (just announced - 3.0% I think?) and rounded to nearest £100. This was  first announced in 2015 budget, so I don't expect the chancellor to even mention it.

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2017, 08:58:38 AM »
So anymore bets on what Phil has in store for us?

Fingers crossed ISA's stay, pension annual allowances aren't reduced too much and dividends aren't taxed too much.

never give up

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2017, 09:09:15 AM »
Iím with you there d&d. I think the pension annual allowance may reduce from £40,000 to £30,000 which wouldnít impact me. Iím hoping ISAís arenít tinkered with as well.

Letís hope weíre not cursing that little red box and itís contents of doom!

ExitViaTheCashRamp

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2017, 12:01:36 PM »
Am fearing the IR35 rules over public sector personal service companies being extended to cover private sector PSC's :(  Will dent my FIRE date a fair bit....

 Then again, maybe not. The last big change for me was the dividend change which just pushed me into finding more tax efficiency. I ended up avoiding so much tax that it was incredibly embarrassing - I ended up paying (no joke) 10% corp tax that I paid before the change (and no additional PAYE or other taxes) ! On the bright side, I was then able to donate some fairly hefty sums to my kids schools that benefits a large number of deprived children.

poppydog

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 09:55:14 AM »
Three or four years ago I spent weeks stressing over what was going to happen to pension contributions in the budget.

I'm now confident enough that, even if there is a big change, it isn't going to happen overnight. Payroll and pension companies couldn't handle a change to salary sacrifice / pre-tax contributions without some time to prepare. So I'm trying to avoid speculation until we have a budget.

I'm trying not to stress about it. I need one more year from April 18 at £40k max contribution and that's it.

A substantial reduction in the £20k ISA allowance (and/or Capital gains allowance) would be much worse for me as I have taxable assets I need to get into a tax shelter over the next few years.

Hi SpreadsheetMan - I'm in exactly the same boat, returning at the end of June, I just want one last push into my employer's DC scheme with a substantial bonus next April.  After retiring I'm taking my 25% tax free lump sum (both me and Mrs PD) immediately as I don't trust them not to change this arrangement, then will transfer this into our ISAs over the next few years.

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2017, 01:01:25 AM »
+ 1 to hoping for no IR35 changes.

I do use the full £40k pension allowance each year, but I only want to put ~£60k more in my pension, so spreading it over a few more years isn't the end of the world.

cerat0n1a

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2017, 02:21:57 AM »
Pretty similar for me - £40k going into pension this year and intending to stop working next year, so not too worried about pension taxation changes if they only affect money going in. The direction of travel in the last few years has been to significantly increase ISA allowances and give more flexibility on pensions, I think it's unlikely that the ISA allowance would be to cut.

elementz_m

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2017, 06:17:14 AM »
Yay for railcards. That's saved us £30 a month for the foreseeable.

londonstache

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2017, 07:18:45 AM »
Alas, nothing of note for us and a budget that doesn't reward savers, which is probably to be expected.

We're both too old to benefit from the millennial railcard and have bought a property already so no benefit there either. I would expect however that market forces might cause a rise in house prices to fairly quickly 'negate' the stamp duty savings, particularly in London.

ExitViaTheCashRamp

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2017, 07:54:44 AM »
Yay for railcards. That's saved us £30 a month for the foreseeable.

 Only if you are travelling off-peak ...


On IR35:

"Therefore the government will carefully consult on how to tackle non-compliance in the private sector, drawing on the experience of the public sector reforms, including through external research already commissioned by the government and due to be published in 2018. "

Phew ! *Gasp* *Wheeze* Looks like I should be safe for one more year at least.

never give up

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2017, 09:53:53 AM »
No nothing that really helps, but also nothing to thwart me either. Iíll take that.

Thatís the rope bridge of budget safely negotiated. Now if we can just traverse investment forest, followed by the mountain passes of taxation, being careful to dodge the one more year monster, we should find the idyllic lakes and meadows of FIRE awaits!

I do apologise for my sense of humour. Itís been a really long week and itís not even Thursday yet!

frugledoc

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2017, 10:27:54 AM »
No nasty surprises today. I'm happy with this budget. 

SNP will probably not raise the higher rate threshold for income tax in Scotland though.

shelivesthedream

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 10:52:24 AM »
No stamp duty on first properties up to £300,000? Yeah, because the best way to solve the housing crisis is to persuade more people to try to buy the same number of properties. Bloody ridiculous. Total headline grabber.

Pleased about the railcard for us as I've only just aged out of the old one, but wondering what it says about how people in their twenties are viewed. The point of young people's discounts is that we don't have a lot of money as we haven't established ourselves as adults yet - so now we are "young people" (non adults) until we are thirty. Seems to increasingly reflect reality, but I'm sure our grandparents who left school at 14, married at 20 and had their first child by 22 would be shocked.

frugledoc

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2017, 12:31:48 PM »
No stamp duty on first properties up to £300,000? Yeah, because the best way to solve the housing crisis is to persuade more people to try to buy the same number of properties. Bloody ridiculous. Total headline grabber.

I haven't read it in detail but I think also 5 garden cities to be built and builders not allowed to landbank anymore.

Property should be subject to capital gains tax IMO, stamp duty is just wrong

shelivesthedream

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2017, 12:47:43 PM »
No stamp duty on first properties up to £300,000? Yeah, because the best way to solve the housing crisis is to persuade more people to try to buy the same number of properties. Bloody ridiculous. Total headline grabber.

I haven't read it in detail but I think also 5 garden cities to be built and builders not allowed to landbank anymore.

Property should be subject to capital gains tax IMO, stamp duty is just wrong

Got to admit I haven't read any details either, but the general "we must help first time buyers because it is a human right to buy a property" narrative really ticks me off.

frugledoc

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2017, 01:09:27 PM »
No stamp duty on first properties up to £300,000? Yeah, because the best way to solve the housing crisis is to persuade more people to try to buy the same number of properties. Bloody ridiculous. Total headline grabber.

I haven't read it in detail but I think also 5 garden cities to be built and builders not allowed to landbank anymore.

Property should be subject to capital gains tax IMO, stamp duty is just wrong

Got to admit I haven't read any details either, but the general "we must help first time buyers because it is a human right to buy a property" narrative really ticks me off.

It is irritating to level headed mustachians, but most of the UK public can't get past the fallacy of  "paying rent is dead money"

cerat0n1a

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2017, 01:11:53 PM »
No stamp duty on first properties up to £300,000? Yeah, because the best way to solve the housing crisis is to persuade more people to try to buy the same number of properties. Bloody ridiculous. Total headline grabber.

The OBR report says that they expect around 3500 people per year to make use of this and that the overall effect will be a small increase in house prices. But as a headline generator, it seems pretty effective.

frugledoc

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2017, 01:38:01 PM »
I hope it is effective.  I have a (?? irrational) fear of Labour getting into power.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 02:29:26 AM by frugledoc »

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2017, 02:23:21 PM »
Overall, not so bad at all, pension and Isa allowance remaining, slightly concerned about the IR35 announcement, hopefully they'll take a few years to get it agreed.

I hope it is effective.  I have an (?? irrational) fear of Labour getting into power.

I think that is a rational fear nowadays... I'm just crossing my fingers the Tories can last till I plan to FIRE in 3 years. When I'm FIRE'd maybe a socialist government would be good?

shelivesthedream

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2017, 02:47:52 PM »
No fellow bleeding heart lefties on this forum? Well, I used to consider myself left. It feels like I've stayed in the same place and the rest of the world have moved around so I don't know where I am now. Vaguely centre-left? I find the current left/liberals a bit odd and embarrassing.

TartanTallulah

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2017, 10:37:36 PM »
No fellow bleeding heart lefties on this forum? Well, I used to consider myself left.

I'll hold my hand up to leftiness, though my heart is fossilised and doesn't bleed much nowadays. I wouldn't have objected to a bit of tax and spend in the budget; working in a public service in which the headlines are that more money is being given but the reality is progressive cutbacks is frustrating and one of my reasons for wanting to retire early.

As the owner of a house worth less than £300,000, I might be a beneficiary of the stamp duty change if I wanted to sell, but I don't at present, and where I live is so LCOL that my house is likely to be too big to attract a first time buyer.

Otherwise, nothing changes for us, except that I can point and laugh at the colleague who took their DB pension last month because they knew that the tax free lump sum was going to be withdrawn in this budget.



SpreadsheetMan

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2017, 01:05:37 AM »
Phew! Got away with no pension tinkering then. I can do my max contribution for 18-19 and then bolt for the hills as planned.

cerat0n1a

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2017, 01:16:29 AM »
No fellow bleeding heart lefties on this forum? Well, I used to consider myself left. It feels like I've stayed in the same place and the rest of the world have moved around so I don't know where I am now. Vaguely centre-left? I find the current left/liberals a bit odd and embarrassing.

Current state of UK politics is fairly dispiriting - it really is a case of hold your nose and pick the least bad option at the moment.

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2017, 01:27:37 AM »
No fellow bleeding heart lefties on this forum? Well, I used to consider myself left. It feels like I've stayed in the same place and the rest of the world have moved around so I don't know where I am now. Vaguely centre-left? I find the current left/liberals a bit odd and embarrassing.

Yeah, I'm not really sure where I sit left to right nowadays......generally socially very liberal and fiscally kinda conservative.

cerat0n1a

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2017, 01:55:56 AM »
One minor thing perhaps worth noting is that it was announced (quite some time ago) that the tax-free dividend allowance would be reduced from £5000 to £2000, but that change did not make it into legislation due to the election. However it is included in the post election 2017 Finance (No. 2) Act which passed last week so the change will come into effect for the tax year starting April 2018.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2017/32/section/8/enacted

frugledoc

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2017, 02:36:26 AM »
I'm more right wing but would rather be left wing.

I have zero problem with paying a lot more taxes for better schools, hospitals, infrastructure.

I will never be happy with paying more taxes for benefits.  I can't stand labours view point of tax the rich to give to the poor (directly).

I just don't agree that giving the poor more money will help them at all.

I hear all the time that families can't afford food.  But these families don't know how to cook lentil soup or wouldn't consider eating baked potatoes for dinner, something which we do all the time.

Anyway, don't want to get into a political arguement, I think the most important thing to improve society is getting kids from poor areas much better educational resources and opportunities to mix with kid from backgrounds where there is opportunity. 

Direct money to the parents will most likely be wasted

shelivesthedream

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2017, 02:44:55 AM »
Anyway, don't want to get into a political arguement, I think the most important thing to improve society is getting kids from poor areas much better educational resources and opportunities to mix with kid from backgrounds where there is opportunity. 

Agreed, let's keep this thread to discussing the budget.

Moneysavingexpert* has a good personal-finance-related roundup: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/family/2017/11/autumn-budget-2017

Interesting that the diesel cars crusade continues, and I'm also interested in the single-use/disposables tax consultation. I wonder how far they would be willing to go on that - taxing disposable nappies? I suspect a lot of people will get very cross about specific things being taxed and it will end up either never happening or having so many patchworked exceptions that it will get ridiculous.

*(It's a very good website for UK-based news and analysis, but the angle there is so different to MMM that I sometimes find it a shock to go there. The forum often pops up in Google searches for personal finance questions and I find the mindset to be quite penny wise and pound foolish. No sense that consumerism should be curbed, simply that they want to get the most things for the least amount of money.)

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2017, 04:12:53 AM »
One minor thing perhaps worth noting is that it was announced (quite some time ago) that the tax-free dividend allowance would be reduced from £5000 to £2000, but that change did not make it into legislation due to the election. However it is included in the post election 2017 Finance (No. 2) Act which passed last week so the change will come into effect for the tax year starting April 2018.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2017/32/section/8/enacted

Ba! was hoping they had forgotten about this one!

cerat0n1a

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2017, 04:35:21 AM »
Interesting that the diesel cars crusade continues,

Crusade? Like the stamp duty thing, in reality, it's the gentlest of nudges. If you buy an expensive new diesel car, you'll pay a bit of extra tax in your first year of owning it (£20 for one at the cheaper end of the spectrum; £300 if you buy a top end range rover or similar.)

shelivesthedream

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2017, 05:37:50 AM »
Interesting that the diesel cars crusade continues,

Crusade? Like the stamp duty thing, in reality, it's the gentlest of nudges. If you buy an expensive new diesel car, you'll pay a bit of extra tax in your first year of owning it (£20 for one at the cheaper end of the spectrum; £300 if you buy a top end range rover or similar.)

Yes, I did type 'crusade' without thinking - it is much stronger than I meant it to be, reading it back! 'Attempts to mildly discourage' would be more what I was actually thinking.

ExitViaTheCashRamp

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2017, 09:08:14 AM »
In this journey, it seems sad that government seems to be the biggest risk to our FIRE. Medical costs are not really our concern in the UK, I guess divorce or addiction are possible significant roadbumps - but its government I fear the most.


never give up

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2017, 10:11:28 AM »
Yep I agree. For something like pensions there should be some sort of limit to tinkering e.g. governments are only allowed to look at them once every 15-20 years or something, just to modernise when required. That way people can plan properly for the long term. To know at any point itís possible the age you could take your pension could be moved out several years, or the way decades of savings could suddenly be taxed is quite scary.

If people were actively encouraged to plan for retirement and people could trust the system think how much strain it would take off of the rest of the system. The amount of people Iíve heard say they donít trust pensions, so whatís the point of bothering!

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2017, 01:29:05 AM »
Yep I agree. For something like pensions there should be some sort of limit to tinkering e.g. governments are only allowed to look at them once every 15-20 years or something, just to modernise when required. That way people can plan properly for the long term. To know at any point itís possible the age you could take your pension could be moved out several years, or the way decades of savings could suddenly be taxed is quite scary.

If people were actively encouraged to plan for retirement and people could trust the system think how much strain it would take off of the rest of the system. The amount of people Iíve heard say they donít trust pensions, so whatís the point of bothering!

I'd be pleased by this. Or to make new pension-messing rules entirely forward looking. So any funds that you accumulated under the old rules (access age, tax-free lump sum, etc) could be allocated to follow the previous rules. I don't see either happening though.

shelivesthedream

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2017, 03:02:59 AM »
I'm not so bothered about how frequently the government tinkers with pensions as by how close to people's retirement age they can do it. Perfectly acceptable to change the rules for someone in their twenties. In their fifties? Nuh uh. I appreciate PWFUK's suggestion about the rules under which funds were accumulated staying the same, but that might get very complicated for people. I'd suggest an absolute cutoff somewhere around 35 after which the government couldn't change the rules for anyone older. The government still gets 17 years to mess around before they're locked in, but you still get 30 years to plan.

never give up

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2017, 10:22:19 AM »
Quote
I'm not so bothered about how frequently the government tinkers with pensions as by how close to people's retirement age they can do it. Perfectly acceptable to change the rules for someone in their twenties. In their fifties? Nuh uh. I appreciate PWFUK's suggestion about the rules under which funds were accumulated staying the same, but that might get very complicated for people. I'd suggest an absolute cutoff somewhere around 35 after which the government couldn't change the rules for anyone older. The government still gets 17 years to mess around before they're locked in, but you still get 30 years to plan.

I wonder if you think this though because your are clued up on pensions, ISA's, & investments in general though. My point is that if they didn't tinker as much, combined with PWFUK's suggestion about any changes only being forward looking then there is more incentive for people that don't understand them as much to learn, trust the system and therefore start contributing. Constant messing around and tinkering while someone is in their 20's (when pensions start to become relevant to an individual) is what puts so many people off from learning and trusting in them in my opinion.

TartanTallulah

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2017, 12:30:39 AM »
Interesting that the diesel cars crusade continues,

Crusade? Like the stamp duty thing, in reality, it's the gentlest of nudges. If you buy an expensive new diesel car, you'll pay a bit of extra tax in your first year of owning it (£20 for one at the cheaper end of the spectrum; £300 if you buy a top end range rover or similar.)

Yes, I did type 'crusade' without thinking - it is much stronger than I meant it to be, reading it back! 'Attempts to mildly discourage' would be more what I was actually thinking.

As a two-diesel-car household (mine is a hand-me-down from my father, DH chose his for fuel economy), I was relieved that there wasn't more financial discouragement in the budget.



MmatoO

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2017, 12:39:31 AM »
Constant messing around and tinkering while someone is in their 20's (when pensions start to become relevant to an individual) is what puts so many people off from learning and trusting in them in my opinion.
It is a very good point and I believe I listened to a podcast right around the time they introduced LISAs with exactly the same point. Too many 'products', too little clarity and too complex to incentivize people to save.

ISAs have become a bit more straightforward for a while (read before LISAs and similar products), but pensions are a massive mess. F* me, I know how much time I spent trying to figure out my own arrangements (and this community massively helped - thank you) and I'm a geek when it comes to finances!
Haha, I can't believe I have a journal!

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2017, 01:13:28 AM »
A lot of families have stories of people who lost all their pension savings before the rules were changed. They mentally put all pensions in the same "some criminal is going to run off with my money" box. It's a shame that the well-meaning older generation's story is filtering through the generations to impoverish the futures of the younger people.

never give up

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2017, 09:10:23 AM »
We need a Mustachian cabinet pronto! Weíd soon sort out incentivising long term saving and as for the deficit well it wouldnít stand a chance against us!

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2017, 10:28:41 AM »
We need a Mustachian cabinet pronto! Weíd soon sort out incentivising long term saving and as for the deficit well it wouldnít stand a chance against us!

Ha ha - I think we're a bit too libertarian here!

never give up

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Re: UK Budget 2017 - Nov 22nd
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2017, 11:35:07 AM »
Maybe youíre right d&d but when I think of some of the wise words and intelligent comments Iíve seen on the forums from yourself and others, Iím sure a UK Mustachian cabinet could come up with a great budget!

Having said that I donít feel I know enough myself yet to be part of this but I could make tea, and sit in the corner and crack jokes when the rest of you feel a bit stressed. I could also be there to just generally be a bit cautious if you all get a bit gung ho with the investment plans and need a different point of view!