Author Topic: Talk me out of this please???  (Read 2361 times)

taylost3

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Talk me out of this please???
« on: August 12, 2018, 12:27:01 PM »
So I don't struggle to live a frugal(ish) life between my wife and I we are saving over 66% of our income and are on track for FI in a maximum of 10 years at 42 & 39. However, I have one itch that just won't go away, cars, in particular, a TVR Cerbera. This one at the moments is starting to have me reaching for my wallet. I'll probably have to pay around 20k for this car if not a bit more. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-TVR-Cerbera-in-Rolex-Blue/323392197028?hash=item4b4bad51a4:g:17UAAOSw0LBbbyNr

Yea they cost a fortune to run between 500-1200 a year on servicing with the risk of engines going bang at 6k to rebuild. Tell me I'm mad! Id probably get a loan with Sainsbury's to finance the car as my investments make significantly more than the 2.8% APR. The car will likely appreciate and be a toy I use at weekends so what I pay for maintenance I'll probably make up in the car rising in value.

Does anyone else have similar urges for buying something a bit nuts that you've always wanted?

never give up

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2018, 01:02:05 PM »
When I feel like a splurge I treat myself to a chocolate bar or some new bar tape for my bike. You wanted to be called mad so I am happy to call you mad. The appreciation of the car value covering maintenance is irrelevant, it is the opportunity cost of not investing the 20k that is the killer here as well as the opportunity cost of not investing the running costs. Presumably you have a car for the week as well? This will also have running costs associated to it. Think about your car spend as a percentage of your total income. It is far too much to spend when not FI.

I would only advocate doing something like this when FI has been achieved and when the cost has been factored into your numbers. I think cars are one of the biggest factors in people not being able to retire early, as well as being terrible for the environment. Most roads have a speed limit of less than 40mph so what benefit do these type of cars have?

I would treat yourself to a day at the race track each year where you can properly drive a range of properly powerful cars. It may be a £150-£200 day out but a lot more cost effective than owning one and you can properly put your foot down. Treat yourself to a day at the British Grand Prix and visit the motor show to get your fix. Just don’t buy one.

Ten years from FI is a long time. Stock market crashes, Brexit, redundancy, ill health. There are so many things that are out of our control and can go against us. The sooner FI can be achieved the better.

Sorry if any of this seemed harsh, but if you were looking for a big “yes do it right away” then you may struggle to find it on these forums. Buy a corgi sized TVR and a poster of one for your bedroom wall and your future self will thank you for it.

former player

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2018, 01:51:58 PM »
At some point fairly soon cars like that are going to go the way of the dinosaurs and be nothing more than scrap to recycle into mountings for solar panels.  Don't bet on making your money back.

taylost3

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2018, 02:14:17 PM »
When I feel like a splurge I treat myself to a chocolate bar or some new bar tape for my bike. You wanted to be called mad so I am happy to call you mad. The appreciation of the car value covering maintenance is irrelevant, it is the opportunity cost of not investing the 20k that is the killer here as well as the opportunity cost of not investing the running costs. Presumably you have a car for the week as well? This will also have running costs associated to it. Think about your car spend as a percentage of your total income. It is far too much to spend when not FI.

I would only advocate doing something like this when FI has been achieved and when the cost has been factored into your numbers. I think cars are one of the biggest factors in people not being able to retire early, as well as being terrible for the environment. Most roads have a speed limit of less than 40mph so what benefit do these type of cars have?

I would treat yourself to a day at the race track each year where you can properly drive a range of properly powerful cars. It may be a £150-£200 day out but a lot more cost effective than owning one and you can properly put your foot down. Treat yourself to a day at the British Grand Prix and visit the motor show to get your fix. Just don’t buy one.

Ten years from FI is a long time. Stock market crashes, Brexit, redundancy, ill health. There are so many things that are out of our control and can go against us. The sooner FI can be achieved the better.

Sorry if any of this seemed harsh, but if you were looking for a big “yes do it right away” then you may struggle to find it on these forums. Buy a corgi sized TVR and a poster of one for your bedroom wall and your future self will thank you for it.

Fantastic response Never give up thank you very much you are 100% spot on of course which I kind of already knew. You are correct we have a small car that is paid for outright and costs us less than a £1000 a year including tax, insurance and maintenance.  Treating myself to a track day is a fantastic idea, I guess the novelty of the car would quickly ware off anyway.

taylost3

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2018, 02:14:53 PM »
At some point fairly soon cars like that are going to go the way of the dinosaurs and be nothing more than scrap to recycle into mountings for solar panels.  Don't bet on making your money back.

Not so sure I agree I'm very confident there will always be a market for cars like this as they have a big cult following.

TartanTallulah

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 02:31:36 PM »
Does anyone else have similar urges for buying something a bit nuts that you've always wanted?

Houses bigger than the one we live in, with spacious rooms, in a nearby HCOL area, even though my husband and I are empty-nesters in a fairly compact four-bedroom house that's bigger than we need and in a perfectly adequate location.

Fortunately, buying a house you can't afford is not something that can be done on impulse.


never give up

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2018, 02:34:10 PM »
No problem. Your thread has taught me that I’m quite assertive on a Sunday evening when I’m experiencing the Monday morning work dreads. I may make more decisions at this time of the week going forward. Thanks for helping me realise this!
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 10:35:51 PM by never give up »

ExitViaTheCashRamp

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2018, 03:50:22 PM »
Would renting one for a day scratch the itch enough ? I know nothing about cars but this was the top hit when I googled it:

https://supercarexperiences.com/manufacturers/tvr/

 Which will deliver and collect the car from your home for a few hundred pounds a day including insurance. You could set aside the day from work, plan a full days epic trip with spouse/friend and make it THAT day which you drove the machine.

May2030

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2018, 01:53:21 PM »
They sound amazing, go like stink and smell nice when travelling behind one. Heard of one crashed on a test drive while going in a straight line when the driver planted the throttle.

Complete money pit if you have issues and 15mpg means constant trips to the petrol station which really hurts the frugal muscle. Can you get spares easily?

Hypocrisy! I fight my urges then give in and justify it to myself. The novelty wears off quickly, you realise cars are a waste of money and there is x years of expenses sitting in your garage . Buyers remorse is ten times worse when you know about MMM.






NotYetLivingtheDream

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2018, 05:54:09 AM »
Hi all,

New to the forums but thought I should reply to this thread.

I've just sold my TVR Chimaera 5.0 after 9 years of ownership so if you want any real world advice then please ask away.


skip207

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2018, 06:04:45 AM »
OP get yourself on Piston Heads.  That's the home of TVR owners.... and many other like minded folk!
I have a few nice cars, wont say what as I will get face punched, throat punched and sack punched in that order!!!
The bottom line is you must enjoy your life and if a small portion of your NW goes on something like a car I would not fret.

Something like a TVR is never going to be worth nothing.  It will always, in your life time, have a value.  Even if its 50% (doubtful it would ever drop that low) of the price you pay.
Yes repairs, mot, insurance, fuel.... but the enjoyment factor is worth more than money.  You can always make more money.
Some people don't get cars, but they spend thousands on golf or guitars or sending their kids to a good school... they get enjoyment from that.

Getting back to the car, you need to get a full inspection by a specialist IMHO on anything like this.  This will avoid any serious spend in the first few years.

taylost3

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2018, 06:48:42 AM »
Would renting one for a day scratch the itch enough ? I know nothing about cars but this was the top hit when I googled it:

https://supercarexperiences.com/manufacturers/tvr/

 Which will deliver and collect the car from your home for a few hundred pounds a day including insurance. You could set aside the day from work, plan a full days epic trip with spouse/friend and make it THAT day which you drove the machine.

Possibly thanks Ill look into this cheers

taylost3

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2018, 06:49:42 AM »
They sound amazing, go like stink and smell nice when travelling behind one. Heard of one crashed on a test drive while going in a straight line when the driver planted the throttle.

Complete money pit if you have issues and 15mpg means constant trips to the petrol station which really hurts the frugal muscle. Can you get spares easily?

Hypocrisy! I fight my urges then give in and justify it to myself. The novelty wears off quickly, you realise cars are a waste of money and there is x years of expenses sitting in your garage . Buyers remorse is ten times worse when you know about MMM.


I think the danger is the reason I like them so much. What do they say the closer to death you are the more alive you feel. Its certainly true plating your right foot in a Cebera

taylost3

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2018, 06:50:14 AM »
Hi all,

New to the forums but thought I should reply to this thread.

I've just sold my TVR Chimaera 5.0 after 9 years of ownership so if you want any real world advice then please ask away.

Thanks for the reply, first questions would be why did you sell and are you looking to replace it with anything?

taylost3

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2018, 06:51:19 AM »
OP get yourself on Piston Heads.  That's the home of TVR owners.... and many other like minded folk!
I have a few nice cars, wont say what as I will get face punched, throat punched and sack punched in that order!!!
The bottom line is you must enjoy your life and if a small portion of your NW goes on something like a car I would not fret.

Something like a TVR is never going to be worth nothing.  It will always, in your life time, have a value.  Even if its 50% (doubtful it would ever drop that low) of the price you pay.
Yes repairs, mot, insurance, fuel.... but the enjoyment factor is worth more than money.  You can always make more money.
Some people don't get cars, but they spend thousands on golf or guitars or sending their kids to a good school... they get enjoyment from that.

Getting back to the car, you need to get a full inspection by a specialist IMHO on anything like this.  This will avoid any serious spend in the first few years.

Thanks Ive been on PH for a while now Im starting to rule the TVR out I think a Lotus Evora may be a more sensible options ha

former player

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2018, 08:36:31 AM »
At some point fairly soon cars like that are going to go the way of the dinosaurs and be nothing more than scrap to recycle into mountings for solar panels.  Don't bet on making your money back.

Not so sure I agree I'm very confident there will always be a market for cars like this as they have a big cult following.

Emissions limits for new cars are tightening quickly.  Emissions limits on existing cars aren't going to be universal in the same way quite as soon (they will eventually), but road pricing schemes, congestion charging schemes and highly polluted area restrictions in both the UK and the EU will make cars like the Cerbera more and more expensive to keep and run and less and less able to access motorways and city centres or legally run to their potential*.   As a road car its future is already limited, and my bet is that it will quickly become even more limited, because taxing and restricting such cars is a relatively easy political win compared to all the other options for limiting environmental damage from transport.   Much of which will not affect you if you just want to go for an occasional blast around the countryside, but will fairly soon start to limit the resale possibilities.  In short, not a good investment.

ExitViaTheCashRamp has the right idea: rent one for blasting round a track if you must get your fun by contributing to global warming, but buying one will be bad for the environment and your wallet.


*Source of opinion: previously worked for a while on road charging policy for the Department for Transport.

skip207

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2018, 02:43:24 PM »
You have it all backwards (IMHO!).  Tax wont change for ICE in any major way any time soon.  If anything it will get better or stay very similar.  The govt need to figure out how to tax EVs.  They wont concentrate on a few thousand TVRs that do a few hundred miles a year each. 

Govt are already moving towards "window sticker" taxation for new cars VED, IMHO.  Then after that it will be pay per mile for duty.  IIRC the average motorist pays roughly £2k per year in taxes in the UK before VAT on the sale price of a new car.  Most of that comes from fuel duty.

NotYetLivingtheDream

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2018, 04:44:01 AM »
Hi all,

New to the forums but thought I should reply to this thread.

I've just sold my TVR Chimaera 5.0 after 9 years of ownership so if you want any real world advice then please ask away.

Thanks for the reply, first questions would be why did you sell and are you looking to replace it with anything?

Well, I'd had a blast for 9 years, thoroughly enjoyed it - both driving and maintaining it (it didn't need much other than what i decided to do to improve bits to be honest)

Ultimately the decision to sell came down to circumstances and needing the money for other things. It had increased in value in the time I had it but if I didn't need the money at the time I would probably still have it.

However, there were a number of limitations with that car - primarily it has 2 seats and I have 2 children. This meant other than using it on my own it was 1 child at a time which means you don't really use it. The cerbera, I guess, would be less of an issue for 2 small children.

Replacing it? Yes, I would like to but I'm focussing on my finances in a new was right now (hence being on this forum). Also, the issue is, with what?

I like the bonkersness (is that a word?) of the TVR and I like convertable but I really need more than 2 seats otherwise I'm back where I started. Doesn't leave many options.

In your situation - I would scratch that itch - otherwise it'll annoy you. Make sure you are doing it over and above other long term financial planning - and then go for it. you won't lose much money over a year or 2 and you'll have a blast!!

taylost3

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2018, 06:35:30 AM »
I very nearly bought the car in question but we couldn't agree on a price so the chance has gone. I'm convinced this is the best chance I'll ever have to own a Cerb so maybe I wasn't ready to part with the cash and subconsciously didn't make the deal happen. I do feel a little gutted but sensible MMM head on this is 100% for the best!

TacheTastic

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2018, 02:29:55 AM »
Please tell me that you are booking a track day in one to celebrate your brilliant mustache skills in not buying this car?

never give up

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2018, 02:35:00 AM »
Yep get the money tied up quick, ISA, Pension, debt pay down. It doesn’t matter which, just avoid the temptation of splurging. Have you bought the toy corgi model and the poster yet?

taylost3

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2018, 04:11:01 AM »
Please tell me that you are booking a track day in one to celebrate your brilliant mustache skills in not buying this car?

I haven't but I will be doing so very soon.

taylost3

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2018, 04:12:39 AM »
Yep get the money tied up quick, ISA, Pension, debt pay down. It doesn’t matter which, just avoid the temptation of splurging. Have you bought the toy corgi model and the poster yet?

Only debt I have is the mortgage and I don't want to pay that down as its very cheap. My ISA is maxed and not too interested in the pension as I want t to retire well before I can draw it down. I think I'll have to sit on it until April.

PropJoe

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2018, 05:53:43 AM »
Only debt I have is the mortgage and I don't want to pay that down as its very cheap. My ISA is maxed and not too interested in the pension as I want t to retire well before I can draw it down. I think I'll have to sit on it until April.

Have you considered investing it in a taxable account? You can transfer it into the ISA at a later date.

taylost3

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2018, 04:22:58 AM »
Did think of that tbh I'll look into it cheers.

The Cardinal

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2018, 05:26:22 AM »
I've written before that my financial weakness is also cars.  It's fairly contained at the moment in that I've got a fairly modest 5-year-old Mini Cooper S (plus a van, which my wife mainly paid for), but the numbers certainly do take a chunk out of financial plans. 

I won't write any more on that, but did want to pick up on the earlier point made about emissions charging in future - and then a later suggestion that this wouldn't be a big deal. 

From 2019 or 2020, there will be a Clean Air Zone in our provincial city.  This is one of about 30 planned in the UK and the prototype is April 2019's ULEZ, firstly in central London and later including the whole of the inner north and south circular areas.  If you want to enter the zone, you must pay a daily charge for any vehicle not meeting Euro 6 (diesel) or Euro 4 (petrol) standards, i.e. realistically any pre-2016 diesel or pre-2005 petrol passenger vehicle.  The charge in London will be £10 per day. 

To give an example... Our van is a 2013 diesel conforming to Euro 5 standards.  While the local CAZ may or may not directly include our area, it will certainly include local arterial roads - making the zone mandatory.  We only do about 5,000 miles a year in our van (camper conversion), but I would imagine that it could cost us up to £500 a year - e.g. leave city on day 1 and then return on another. 

Anyway - the above is a long way of saying that a lovely TVR will likely be affected by the above.  I don't think many people have realised how much this will have an impact on motoring habits.   

cerat0n1a

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2018, 06:15:25 AM »
My understanding is that 5 cities outside London were told they had to clean up the air in the city centre (Birmingham, Nottingham, Leeds, Southampton & Derby) from 2020. Nottingham decided they didn't need to impose restrictions on vehicles in order to meet the target, Southampton is still consulting on options.  I think for Leeds, it won't apply to private cars, but they will be funding conversion of existing buses & taxis. Derby is considering whether charging is required and Birmingham seems to have opted for the full charge anybody with a non-compliant vehicle entering the city centre.

I quite like this as a governmental approach - tackle the areas where it's a biggest problem with a few different methods, see what works, what the side-effects are and then roll out to other places.

The Cardinal

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Re: Talk me out of this please???
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2018, 06:20:01 AM »
Mine isn't one of those listed above, but considered plans in March and then refined ones in July this year.  It's essentially all but confirmed for 2019 or 2020.