Returning to UK

[bichael]

Greetings!

First post; we are currently in Singapore (Sg) and starting to think about a return to the UK.
Quick questions;
What is a decent rough annual budget for family of 4 in UK (excluding housing cost)?
Mortgage options if we don't have a big combined income on returning?
Random one - wife has a Dutch passport, should we think about Holland as an alternative?

Long story (numbers in GBP)...

Early 40's been overseas for around 14 years. Currently spending a shed load every year - maybe 130 or 140k? - with kids 7 and 11 at international school in Sg (about 50k fees) plus high rents and general high cost of some things here (btw buying property here was never an option, up to a 60% stamp duty for foreigners now!!). We are frugal in some ways but not others... eg. Never had a car, cycle a lot but on older bikes that I do all the maintenance on, don't drink much or spend a lot on gym / tv subscriptions / Starbucks etc. But we live in a nice place that is decently central, take a couple of holidays a year including one back to the UK, plus like to let the kids do sports/hobbies.

Wife has about 100k income, myne about 50k having recently gone back to do 4 days a week after 3 years off.
I have Chron's disease so work tends to wipe me out and I'm quite keen on Firing (to some degree at least) and a more simple life with more time with the kids before they are too old. Though the NHS may be a blessing and a curse with my disease - medical care in Sg is exceptional IF you have the insurance to cover it. Wife likes her job and prefers the regional/international exposure offered in a big hub - with remote work though I'm thinking wouldn't need to live in a hub and could travel in for a few days when required. She kind of gets the idea of Fire but I think still sees it more as something for when we are older.

Have built up a decent stash - around 1.7mil. Roughly 650k property capital on two small London flats (about 22k income/yr), 180k UK pensions, 750k investments (would steadily convert these to Isa's after returning), plus about 120k cash. Both up to about half state pension, plus I have about the same again from an old final salary scheme.

Have been thinking Ilkley or somewhere similar for where to move back to - Good train links to Leeds/London, close to my family in N York's, close to airport for visits to wife's family overseas, can live without a car, good access to countryside for walks/cycling, good schools it seems. Obviously not cheap, around 650k maybe for 3bed townhouse. Probably this would mean selling one of the rental flats, say 250k, and hopefully can get a mortgage for the rest, if not deplete the stash more or remortgage on the other rental flat maybe?

Biggest barrier at the moment is just being brave enough to make the change I think, not living in a big city would be a big change for sure - we went from London to Shanghai to Singapore. Also for the kids school - incredibly expensive here but it is really good, and there's the fear of not knowing where they may end up in the UK system or how they may adapt.

Any thoughts, suggestions or face slaps welcome, thanks!

[Jade]

Greetings!

First post; we are currently in Singapore (Sg) and starting to think about a return to the UK.
Quick questions;
What is a decent rough annual budget for family of 4 in UK (excluding housing cost)?
Mortgage options if we don't have a big combined income on returning?
Random one - wife has a Dutch passport, should we think about Holland as an alternative?

Long story (numbers in GBP)...

Early 40's been overseas for around 14 years. Currently spending a shed load every year - maybe 130 or 140k? - with kids 7 and 11 at international school in Sg (about 50k fees) plus high rents and general high cost of some things here (btw buying property here was never an option, up to a 60% stamp duty for foreigners now!!). We are frugal in some ways but not others... eg. Never had a car, cycle a lot but on older bikes that I do all the maintenance on, don't drink much or spend a lot on gym / tv subscriptions / Starbucks etc. But we live in a nice place that is decently central, take a couple of holidays a year including one back to the UK, plus like to let the kids do sports/hobbies.

Wife has about 100k income, myne about 50k having recently gone back to do 4 days a week after 3 years off.
I have Chron's disease so work tends to wipe me out and I'm quite keen on Firing (to some degree at least) and a more simple life with more time with the kids before they are too old. Though the NHS may be a blessing and a curse with my disease - medical care in Sg is exceptional IF you have the insurance to cover it. Wife likes her job and prefers the regional/international exposure offered in a big hub - with remote work though I'm thinking wouldn't need to live in a hub and could travel in for a few days when required. She kind of gets the idea of Fire but I think still sees it more as something for when we are older.

Have built up a decent stash - around 1.7mil. Roughly 650k property capital on two small London flats (about 22k income/yr), 180k UK pensions, 750k investments (would steadily convert these to Isa's after returning), plus about 120k cash. Both up to about half state pension, plus I have about the same again from an old final salary scheme.

Have been thinking Ilkley or somewhere similar for where to move back to - Good train links to Leeds/London, close to my family in N York's, close to airport for visits to wife's family overseas, can live without a car, good access to countryside for walks/cycling, good schools it seems. Obviously not cheap, around 650k maybe for 3bed townhouse. Probably this would mean selling one of the rental flats, say 250k, and hopefully can get a mortgage for the rest, if not deplete the stash more or remortgage on the other rental flat maybe?

Biggest barrier at the moment is just being brave enough to make the change I think, not living in a big city would be a big change for sure - we went from London to Shanghai to Singapore. Also for the kids school - incredibly expensive here but it is really good, and there's the fear of not knowing where they may end up in the UK system or how they may adapt.

Any thoughts, suggestions or face slaps welcome, thanks!

Hi bichael!

I'll let other mmmers dive into the numbers and logistics (though on first scan you sound in very a good position). I was just going to say, with hubby and I also having chronic illnesses, that FIREing has been a great thing for us. I like my job but am glad to be in the position as of next year to not work but choosing 8 hours a week because I enjoy it. We definitely feel the benefits of having less pressure health-wise, as we're getting older.

I guess it's about getting clear on your family's priorities. I'd imagine big city living to Ilkley will be quite a change but would give you a much lower cost of living on the plus side.

All the best!

[daverobev]

Not sure about the Netherlands but generally, bringing a family to the EU is dead easy when you go to any country other than the one/s you are citizens of.

EU laws are simple. Spouse? No problem.

Full country requirements can be a lot harsher (show income, place to live, etc, etc). Of course you still need to show you have the resources to live there after a certain amount of time, but still.

What I'm saying is... France or Belgium or whatever might work better than the Netherlands. NL is expensive, has a wealth tax I believe.

As to your initial question, people can live on next to nothing in the UK. Or they can spend a crapload. Mid Wales vs London. Aldi vs Waitrose. Lentils vs beef. And so on.

AFAIK you will be able to get a mortgage... but it will be a pain, and rates are 'high' at the moment.

650k getting 22k is... mediocre at best. Even a savings account will get you more at the moment I think, without the risk.

Do you all have British citizenship?

Yeah... come to France. Buy a nice place for 300k or whatever. Foreign property income is actually taxed lightly. Taxes are (including social charges) are high, but... school's good, there's lots of support. Groceries aren't as cheap as the UK but not bad. You can each stick €150k into a tax shelter immediately. You can keep buying UK State Pension years.

Well just a thought, anyway.

[Jade]

As to your initial question, people can live on next to nothing in the UK. Or they can spend a crapload. Mid Wales vs London. Aldi vs Waitrose. Lentils vs beef. And so on.

We (couple, no kids) are at the lower end of the spectrum and happily live on £10-12k a year (mortgage free) in the south east.

[bownyboy]

Wow. £140 a year in UK is an insane number! If you followed the '4% rule' then you would need investments of around £3.5m to keep up that spending. Thats quite 'chunky' in the UK.

I suggest you get a feel for UK expenses to get an idea of what you. need to spend in a year (ask around, ask here etc).

You have just over £1.1m in pensions , investments  and cash

You have £650k in property equity and want a house in UK which may be around £650k.

If it was me I would sell the properties to use it to buy a house.

Then understand your monthly / yearly expenditure.

Then save into SIPP/ ISAs to fill up to the amount needed so you can then withdraw to meet your needs.

[Rightflyer]

As to your initial question, people can live on next to nothing in the UK. Or they can spend a crapload. Mid Wales vs London. Aldi vs Waitrose. Lentils vs beef. And so on.

We (couple, no kids) are at the lower end of the spectrum and happily live on £10-12k a year (mortgage free) in the south east.

That's impressive... especially in the Southeast.
And I thought we were pretty frugal.
Just our essential fixed costs (council tax, utilities, mobile, insurance etc) are £5300/yr.


How do you manage that? (Serious question).

[Jade]

As to your initial question, people can live on next to nothing in the UK. Or they can spend a crapload. Mid Wales vs London. Aldi vs Waitrose. Lentils vs beef. And so on.

We (couple, no kids) are at the lower end of the spectrum and happily live on £10-12k a year (mortgage free) in the south east.

That's impressive... especially in the Southeast.
And I thought we were pretty frugal.
Just our essential fixed costs (council tax, utilities, mobile, insurance etc) are £5300/yr.


How do you manage that? (Serious question).

Thanks! Probably similar to you on your bills. We don't spend a lot on top of bills just because things we do for fun are quite cheap.. reading, watching movies, going for walks & volunteering at the local animal centre.We live near lots of beaches which is great in the summer (and don't go on holidays as a result as hubby's FIREd and I don't work much.) We also buy most of our clothes second hand, buy and sell things on eBay which covers the cost of most of our clothes and going out for coffee about once a week. We don't drink and we don't eat out (mainly for health) but that keeps the costs down. We've been living like this more or less for at least ten years and it feels easy to us.

[Rightflyer]

As to your initial question, people can live on next to nothing in the UK. Or they can spend a crapload. Mid Wales vs London. Aldi vs Waitrose. Lentils vs beef. And so on.

We (couple, no kids) are at the lower end of the spectrum and happily live on £10-12k a year (mortgage free) in the south east.

That's impressive... especially in the Southeast.
And I thought we were pretty frugal.
Just our essential fixed costs (council tax, utilities, mobile, insurance etc) are £5300/yr.


How do you manage that? (Serious question).

Thanks! Probably similar to you on your bills. We don't spend a lot on top of bills just because things we do for fun are quite cheap.. reading, watching movies, going for walks & volunteering at the local animal centre.We live near lots of beaches which is great in the summer (and don't go on holidays as a result as hubby's FIREd and I don't work much.) We also buy most of our clothes second hand, buy and sell things on eBay which covers the cost of most of our clothes and going out for coffee about once a week. We don't drink and we don't eat out (mainly for health) but that keeps the costs down. We've been living like this more or less for at least ten years and it feels easy to us.

Ah... the demon alcohol.
Fortunately for us (but not for our budget) we do like a drink.


Still, even when I subtract our booze budget (70 quid a month for 2) you are still miles ahead of us.
Good on ya!

[Jade]

As to your initial question, people can live on next to nothing in the UK. Or they can spend a crapload. Mid Wales vs London. Aldi vs Waitrose. Lentils vs beef. And so on.

We (couple, no kids) are at the lower end of the spectrum and happily live on £10-12k a year (mortgage free) in the south east.

That's impressive... especially in the Southeast.
And I thought we were pretty frugal.
Just our essential fixed costs (council tax, utilities, mobile, insurance etc) are £5300/yr.


How do you manage that? (Serious question).

Thanks! Probably similar to you on your bills. We don't spend a lot on top of bills just because things we do for fun are quite cheap.. reading, watching movies, going for walks & volunteering at the local animal centre.We live near lots of beaches which is great in the summer (and don't go on holidays as a result as hubby's FIREd and I don't work much.) We also buy most of our clothes second hand, buy and sell things on eBay which covers the cost of most of our clothes and going out for coffee about once a week. We don't drink and we don't eat out (mainly for health) but that keeps the costs down. We've been living like this more or less for at least ten years and it feels easy to us.

Ah... the demon alcohol.
Fortunately for us (but not for our budget) we do like a drink.


Still, even when I subtract our booze budget (70 quid a month for 2) you are still miles ahead of us.
Good on ya!

Cheers! Sounds like you're doing well too though! I think it's about doing the things you want to (like having a drink) so you don't feel deprived. We did all our partying in our 20s before we met and both being introverts, like a quiet life now which just has the added bonus of being cheap! It was definitely an evolution though but now it's just habit to live like this.

[PhilB]

Not sure about the Netherlands but generally, bringing a family to the EU is dead easy when you go to any country other than the one/s you are citizens of.

EU laws are simple. Spouse? No problem.

Full country requirements can be a lot harsher (show income, place to live, etc, etc). Of course you still need to show you have the resources to live there after a certain amount of time, but still.

What I'm saying is... France or Belgium or whatever might work better than the Netherlands. NL is expensive, has a wealth tax I believe.

As to your initial question, people can live on next to nothing in the UK. Or they can spend a crapload. Mid Wales vs London. Aldi vs Waitrose. Lentils vs beef. And so on.

AFAIK you will be able to get a mortgage... but it will be a pain, and rates are 'high' at the moment.

650k getting 22k is... mediocre at best. Even a savings account will get you more at the moment I think, without the risk.

Do you all have British citizenship?

Yeah... come to France. Buy a nice place for 300k or whatever. Foreign property income is actually taxed lightly. Taxes are (including social charges) are high, but... school's good, there's lots of support. Groceries aren't as cheap as the UK but not bad. You can each stick €150k into a tax shelter immediately. You can keep buying UK State Pension years.

Well just a thought, anyway.

Or, if you want easy access to schooling in English for the kids, Ireland might be worth a look.