Author Topic: Any Canadian expats in here?  (Read 202 times)

daverobev

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Any Canadian expats in here?
« on: August 09, 2018, 03:35:48 PM »
I'm moving back to the UK next year, from Canada.

Anyone here have any experience with doing this? 'Unfortunately' my situation is more complex than when I left, in that I have a family - with investments and all that.

My current concerns/queries are regarding the Canadian RESP - Registered Education Savings Plan.

It is what it sounds like, you put money in, the government puts some more in, and when they go to University or whatever, they can take the money out and growth is taxed in their hands.

What I'm not sure is:

Presuming the growth will be taxed in the UK, in whose hands will it be taxed? The 'subscriber' (parent, in this instance), or the child?

As with everything outside a Canadian RESP or British SIPP or ISA (edit - not sure about the ISA now, seems like it must have UK reporting... which is fine, same with the SIPP; basically anything outside the RRSP must be UK reporting), must I stick to 'UK Reporting' funds? This is hard, as there don't seem to be any good Canadian domiciled ETFs (and AFAIK you can only hold CAD stuff in the RESP).
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 03:41:07 PM by daverobev »

Clodagh

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Re: Any Canadian expats in here?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 09:07:56 AM »
I am a Canadian expat!  I moved here (to Scotland) 2 years ago exactly.  We have complicated our lives with also being resident in New Zealand for most of our married life but I digress.
I can't comment on RESPs but I am just in the process of trying to bring our RRSPs over here.  It is way more complicated than I thought: first I was told not to do anything until I have been domiciled for a year here and now I've been told if I transfer before 2019 I will be dinged a fairly hefty penalty.

All I can say to your query is check and double-check residency/domiciled regulations with the RESPs and HMRC.

Best of luck!

daverobev

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Re: Any Canadian expats in here?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 10:42:47 AM »
I am a Canadian expat!  I moved here (to Scotland) 2 years ago exactly.  We have complicated our lives with also being resident in New Zealand for most of our married life but I digress.
I can't comment on RESPs but I am just in the process of trying to bring our RRSPs over here.  It is way more complicated than I thought: first I was told not to do anything until I have been domiciled for a year here and now I've been told if I transfer before 2019 I will be dinged a fairly hefty penalty.

All I can say to your query is check and double-check residency/domiciled regulations with the RESPs and HMRC.

Best of luck!

Thanks!

You're transferring your RRSP into a SIPP? I just emailed a couple of companies about that today actually, who did you go with (AJ Bell immediately came back with a 'nope'). Where does the penalty come from?

Clodagh

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Re: Any Canadian expats in here?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2018, 09:18:36 AM »
I just assumed that any SIPP would accept the RRSPs - never thought they would say no.  Interesting!
I have been looking at Lansdown Hargreaves for SIPPs.  I am in Canada just now on business so as soon as I get back I will give them a ring to make sure they will be okay with it.  I'm going with LH because lots of people seem to use them on this site and I must say that so far they have been really good with customer service.  I quite like their website too.  For everything else (ISAs, general account) I'm with Vanguard.


As for the penalty... I still don't understand any of it.  My September goal is to get it all sorted and to have a company SIPP set up (we own our own company).

Good luck with the move.  It was pretty painless for us apart from the banks.

Rightflyer

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Re: Any Canadian expats in here?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2018, 08:59:14 AM »
Yes. Just made the move last year.

For us, the best way to get our RRSP money over here is to convert to RRIF.
It is then seen as a pension and subject to certain limits, not subject to withholding tax in Canada.
It will be taxed at your nominal rate here but you can contribute up to 100% of your income to your SIPP and  effectively get your tax back.

TFSA's are invisible to HMRC so you will get taxed on those capital gains and income.

If you have any more detailed questions, fire away.


daverobev

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Re: Any Canadian expats in here?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 09:48:46 AM »
Yes. Just made the move last year.

For us, the best way to get our RRSP money over here is to convert to RRIF.
It is then seen as a pension and subject to certain limits, not subject to withholding tax in Canada.
It will be taxed at your nominal rate here but you can contribute up to 100% of your income to your SIPP and  effectively get your tax back.

TFSA's are invisible to HMRC so you will get taxed on those capital gains and income.

If you have any more detailed questions, fire away.

Thanks, yes I know about the RRIF 'hack' - I'll might be doing that in a few years once I've squirrelled away my unregistered money into an ISA. But, I did wonder if it was simpler/possible to just transfer into a SIPP and be done with it.

TFSAs are not tax shelters no, and you shouldn't hold non UK reporting stuff in else you don't get the benefit of divis and gains being taxed as such, rather they are taxed as income.

Any ideas on the RRIFs? I think the same is true - I'll just have to get rid of my nice global portfolio and settle for a few blue chip Canadian stocks. Either that, or just collapse the whole thing, pay the penalty, and put the money into a Junior ISA.

I'm of two (three?) minds about the TFSA - either, temporarily, switch the global ETFs for individual stocks; or, I could switch to things that ARE UK reporting, namely, Vanguard's US domiciled ETFs (= loss of withholding, but in theory I can claim that back?); or, just withdraw everything, and invest in UK ETFs like VWRL or whatever.

I guess simplicity trumps all. To begin with I'll be ok because I'll only be in the UK for Jan-Feb-Mar of 2018-2019, so I won't earn enough to worry about Self Assessment on dividends and whatnot. I'll probably be under the personal allowance. But for 2019-2020 I won't (though I'll likely live off savings and funnel as much as I can of my earnings into a SIPP).

daverobev

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Re: Any Canadian expats in here?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 08:57:14 AM »
I just assumed that any SIPP would accept the RRSPs - never thought they would say no.  Interesting!
I have been looking at Lansdown Hargreaves for SIPPs.  I am in Canada just now on business so as soon as I get back I will give them a ring to make sure they will be okay with it.  I'm going with LH because lots of people seem to use them on this site and I must say that so far they have been really good with customer service.  I quite like their website too.  For everything else (ISAs, general account) I'm with Vanguard.


As for the penalty... I still don't understand any of it.  My September goal is to get it all sorted and to have a company SIPP set up (we own our own company).

Good luck with the move.  It was pretty painless for us apart from the banks.

I got a response back from HL this morning - no, they won't do it, but they'd be happy to take my business AFTER having transferred to a SIPP. Yeah. Thanks.

daverobev

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Re: Any Canadian expats in here?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2018, 09:10:07 AM »
So far:

AJ Bell - no

HL - no

iWeb I won't bother as they use AJ Bell for the SIPP, for some reason

Just emailed:

Barclays

Fidelity

Can't find email for:

Aviva

Fingers crossed I can find someone.. I'd rather just have it done, than have to faff with RRIFs at this point.

Rightflyer

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Re: Any Canadian expats in here?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2018, 10:49:55 AM »
Yes. Just made the move last year.

For us, the best way to get our RRSP money over here is to convert to RRIF.
It is then seen as a pension and subject to certain limits, not subject to withholding tax in Canada.
It will be taxed at your nominal rate here but you can contribute up to 100% of your income to your SIPP and  effectively get your tax back.

TFSA's are invisible to HMRC so you will get taxed on those capital gains and income.

If you have any more detailed questions, fire away.

Thanks, yes I know about the RRIF 'hack' - I'll might be doing that in a few years once I've squirrelled away my unregistered money into an ISA. But, I did wonder if it was simpler/possible to just transfer into a SIPP and be done with it.

TFSAs are not tax shelters no, and you shouldn't hold non UK reporting stuff in else you don't get the benefit of divis and gains being taxed as such, rather they are taxed as income.

Any ideas on the RRIFs? I think the same is true - I'll just have to get rid of my nice global portfolio and settle for a few blue chip Canadian stocks. Either that, or just collapse the whole thing, pay the penalty, and put the money into a Junior ISA.

I'm of two (three?) minds about the TFSA - either, temporarily, switch the global ETFs for individual stocks; or, I could switch to things that ARE UK reporting, namely, Vanguard's US domiciled ETFs (= loss of withholding, but in theory I can claim that back?); or, just withdraw everything, and invest in UK ETFs like VWRL or whatever.

I guess simplicity trumps all. To begin with I'll be ok because I'll only be in the UK for Jan-Feb-Mar of 2018-2019, so I won't earn enough to worry about Self Assessment on dividends and whatnot. I'll probably be under the personal allowance. But for 2019-2020 I won't (though I'll likely live off savings and funnel as much as I can of my earnings into a SIPP).

RRIFs are seen by HMRC as a pension wrapper so you don't need to worry about those. You'll only need to pay tax in the UK on the income as it's withdrawn.

Re: TFSAs. Given the very advantageous exchange rate, you'd be smart to sell everything in the TFSAs and move the money to GBP soonish. As soon as you get here, open an ISA and stuff away. Between you and SO (if there is an SO) you'll have 80,000 quid of ISA room to put away by next April.

We're just finishing up withdrawing all of our TFSA money and moving it now. (GBP/CAD is down over 7% since March.)

You could always buy some GBP now and then take a flyer on whether we crash out of EU or not.





daverobev

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Re: Any Canadian expats in here?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2018, 12:03:27 PM »
Yes. Just made the move last year.

For us, the best way to get our RRSP money over here is to convert to RRIF.
It is then seen as a pension and subject to certain limits, not subject to withholding tax in Canada.
It will be taxed at your nominal rate here but you can contribute up to 100% of your income to your SIPP and  effectively get your tax back.

TFSA's are invisible to HMRC so you will get taxed on those capital gains and income.

If you have any more detailed questions, fire away.

Thanks, yes I know about the RRIF 'hack' - I'll might be doing that in a few years once I've squirrelled away my unregistered money into an ISA. But, I did wonder if it was simpler/possible to just transfer into a SIPP and be done with it.

TFSAs are not tax shelters no, and you shouldn't hold non UK reporting stuff in else you don't get the benefit of divis and gains being taxed as such, rather they are taxed as income.

Any ideas on the RRIFs? I think the same is true - I'll just have to get rid of my nice global portfolio and settle for a few blue chip Canadian stocks. Either that, or just collapse the whole thing, pay the penalty, and put the money into a Junior ISA.

I'm of two (three?) minds about the TFSA - either, temporarily, switch the global ETFs for individual stocks; or, I could switch to things that ARE UK reporting, namely, Vanguard's US domiciled ETFs (= loss of withholding, but in theory I can claim that back?); or, just withdraw everything, and invest in UK ETFs like VWRL or whatever.

I guess simplicity trumps all. To begin with I'll be ok because I'll only be in the UK for Jan-Feb-Mar of 2018-2019, so I won't earn enough to worry about Self Assessment on dividends and whatnot. I'll probably be under the personal allowance. But for 2019-2020 I won't (though I'll likely live off savings and funnel as much as I can of my earnings into a SIPP).

RRIFs are seen by HMRC as a pension wrapper so you don't need to worry about those. You'll only need to pay tax in the UK on the income as it's withdrawn.

Re: TFSAs. Given the very advantageous exchange rate, you'd be smart to sell everything in the TFSAs and move the money to GBP soonish. As soon as you get here, open an ISA and stuff away. Between you and SO (if there is an SO) you'll have 80,000 quid of ISA room to put away by next April.

We're just finishing up withdrawing all of our TFSA money and moving it now. (GBP/CAD is down over 7% since March.)

You could always buy some GBP now and then take a flyer on whether we crash out of EU or not.

Ah, but the exchange rate is irrelevant to me - I'd be selling an EAFE fund, which is what I'd like to rebuy (though I can't find one, so it'll probably end up being a combination of VEUR and some Asia Pacific ETF, when I find one).

Alas, my wife won't be over til the middle of next year or later, and she has her own stuff to put in an ISA. What I am hoping to do is get my employer to push most of my salary, with salary sacrifice, into a SIPP, and live off savings.

I already had to sell a load of stuff to get the Family Visa 'proof we won't sponge off the state' amount, so... Yeah, maybe not such terrible timing IF the market keeps going down. Except the pound, as you say, keeps falling. Oh well.