Author Topic: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018  (Read 29214 times)

K60

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #200 on: May 16, 2018, 09:26:00 AM »
Hi M41,   

I just watched a few of your videos and I must say that I did not find the V-cube off-putting at all.  Maybe because I'm a vegan, hah ahahahah.  That was a joke, but there is some truth to that.  Others might be discomforted by the truth of the matter.  My impression of the V-cube is that it is a very modern-art type of street art.  If it does make people uncomfortable, maybe that is the point.

My road to the pure plant based diet came from the health side.  Many of my "numbers" were way up.  I've gotten them down, but it's been a long hard slog. I started as a vegetarian and slowly worked my way toward a completely plant-based diet.  Although I considered myself an animal friend, I now realize how truly horrible the SAD (standard American diet) is to animals.

On the environmental side, I think that we are making progress.  If you ignore the hype and focus on how committed young people are, your activism can only have positive effects.  (I have crazies in my family too -- I just don't talk politics.  Not sure if that is the right approach.)

Edited to add:  Thanks for the recipe! I'm going to try it.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #201 on: May 21, 2018, 07:23:09 AM »

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #202 on: May 21, 2018, 02:18:36 PM »
@DarkandStormy,  In interviews, Dr. Greger definitely cops to being biased. But that doesn't mean he lies or cherry-picks. I often dig into the original studies he cites and they back up his messaging. Even on eggs - I've heard him say it's hard to argue against ever eating them, because some studies show they may be healthy enough to eat one or two a week. But he does call out the studies that are sponsored by the egg board, and skewers their methodologies and discounts their results accordingly.

Before you write him off, do what Marcia - his fierce critic - recommends.  Look up any of the studies he cites - on jstor or other medical repositories, and see for yourself. I've probably done this a dozen times. Unlike Marcia, what i've found is that he represented the conclusions from these studies with fidelity. 

But yeah - he straight up says he's biased toward WFPB and away from animal based diets. For one - he saw his grandmother reverse her own heart disease adopting WFPB and got to enjoy her company for another twenty years. Secondly, he used to head up IIRC the Humane society. So he clearly cares about the welfare of animals.

That all said, yeah - I agree with other commenters in that thread - just because a person is biased doesn't mean they are being disingenuous in their research. Anyway, there's always Dr. garth Davis (I really like his work) and McDougall, Essylsten, Campbell, etc.  They similarly are biased because they've seen so many case studies where people reverse disease with WFPB diets, but they seem to still evaluate scientific evidence with open minds.  So, I wouldn't write Greger off. Just check a few of his sources.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #203 on: May 21, 2018, 02:23:47 PM »
I'm not writing Greger off (like MMM is).  MMM dismisses Greger because of his appearance.  Greger is also not a "hardcore vegan activist," imo just because his findings happen to point towards WFPB diet.

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #204 on: May 21, 2018, 02:34:52 PM »
I'm not writing Greger off (like MMM is).  MMM dismisses Greger because of his appearance.  Greger is also not a "hardcore vegan activist," imo just because his findings happen to point towards WFPB diet.

oh good. When i first came across Greger, I did what I usually do - check out the funding, check sources that he's citing, read some criticisms of him, - just to see if he's presenting himself as something he's not. he passed the M41 sniff test.

As for MMM's reply - I read that as a tounge-with-bad-taste-in-cheek attempt at humor. But whatever. my jokes sometimes fall flat too.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 07:32:46 AM by Malaysia41 »

imadandylion

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #205 on: May 26, 2018, 09:53:26 AM »
I am seeing more evidence of a cultural shift towards plant-based diets. I was reading a magazine yesterday (Shape, if you're curious), and it mentioned quite a few things that were vegan/plant-based, such as replacing sashimi with a type of tomato for the umami aspect, options for plant-based ice cream, evidence of pea protein being equal in quality to whey protein when it comes to building muscle after a work out, and a much higher focus on eating well for your body that wasn't related to eating meat/animal products. I don't read a lot of magazines, but I remember several years ago when even health-focused magazines would include several recipes including meat and didn't mention much about fruit/vegetables unless it was to point out some random study that said something along the lines of fruit having antioxidants and yaddayaddaya, and eating meat and yogurt was normalized. It seems that eating plant-based is reaching a more normalized status in media and popular publications, too, instead of being simply "trendy."  Glad to see that!

Just thought you guys might appreciate this tidbit.

K60

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #206 on: May 27, 2018, 10:03:24 AM »
I'm a Dr Greger fan, myself.  I don't think he cherry picks data; it's just that the truth is hard to hear for some people. 

I just passed along this interesting tidbit (or dare I say, 'nutrition fact') to someone else on these boards:

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/alzheimers-disease/

SachaFiscal

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #207 on: May 27, 2018, 01:14:58 PM »
I just made an awesome vegan brunch dish:

Ingredients:
1/2 lb extra firm tofu
2 medium russet potatoes diced small
2 cups chopped kale (fine chop)
1 oz peanuts ground to powder
2 tsp cooking oil
red chili flakes (to taste)
1/2 tsp onion granules
1 tsp taco seasoning
braggs or salt to taste
1/2 lemon

Boil the potatoes in a small pot of water until somewhat soft.
Mash the tofu and mix in some braggs/salt, half the onion granules, and half the taco seasoning.
In a saute pan, heat the cooking oil on medium heat and add the chili flakes to the oil.
Add the drained potatoes, kale, the rest of the onion granules, the rest of the taco seasoning, and braggs/salt and stir.
Add the tofu mixture and stir.
Add the ground peanut powder and stir. 
Juice the 1/2 lemon and stir. Reduce heat to low.
Let cook uncovered stirring occasionally until some of the water has evaporated and the flavors have a chance to blend.

Makes 2 servings.

So delicious!  I had it with my morning coffee today.

K60

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #208 on: May 30, 2018, 10:23:41 AM »
Sounds yummy.  I've added it to my recipe list.  Thanks!

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #209 on: May 30, 2018, 11:01:51 PM »
I may need to try your recipe SF, we're growing weary of the same old tofu scramble.

Here's me last weekend convincing 2 German tourists to sign up for a 22 day plant based diet challenge on http://www.challenge22.com last weeking in Bergamo. Keep that website handy in memory - when you encounter interested humans in the wild - tell them they can try WFPB for a 22 challenge there - it redirects to a FB group where they're in a big convo with oodles of mentors. This is my first month being a mentor to newbie vegans on there. It's 'shaping the path' and IMO it's a critical piece of activism!


Rustychase

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #210 on: June 09, 2018, 06:42:29 PM »
Vegan in the title piqued my interest....

I'm an avid meat eater (like eggs every day for breakfast, steak/chicken/seafood is dinner every night. Reading through this stuff has made me want to change some stuff, yay! Go you guys!

So maybe I won't go vegan, but I do want to cut out the red meat and seafood!

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #211 on: June 10, 2018, 01:52:17 AM »
Vegan in the title piqued my interest....

I'm an avid meat eater (like eggs every day for breakfast, steak/chicken/seafood is dinner every night. Reading through this stuff has made me want to change some stuff, yay! Go you guys!

So maybe I won't go vegan, but I do want to cut out the red meat and seafood!

Yeah! Welcome into our crew Rustychase!

What are some examples of insights youíve had on here that are making you reconsider your diet choices? If you donít mind me asking.

Rustychase

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #212 on: June 10, 2018, 01:04:03 PM »
Vegan in the title piqued my interest....

I'm an avid meat eater (like eggs every day for breakfast, steak/chicken/seafood is dinner every night. Reading through this stuff has made me want to change some stuff, yay! Go you guys!

So maybe I won't go vegan, but I do want to cut out the red meat and seafood!

Yeah! Welcome into our crew Rustychase!

What are some examples of insights youíve had on here that are making you reconsider your diet choices? If you donít mind me asking.

It was mostly the health points brought up! While I like to think I'm pretty healthy, I realize I consume too many animal products. Blood work would probably reveal that haha. Plus, who doesn't want to feel good? I'm always tired, even when I sleep well. Might be my diet, eh?

The environment too is one of my concerns, and I've seen the few graphics posted and went on a research binge. I'd like to contribute to at least a portion of the healing we as humans can accomplish.

Cheers!

Serendip

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #213 on: June 10, 2018, 08:44:37 PM »
I'm stepping toward veganism (combined with non-vegan freeganism). I may never get 100% there, but I've already found some good substitutions that are easy to keep up with long-term. I've also managed to resist the free chicken and beef at two different work events, which is a big deal for my cheapo self.

Following here to learn about new options. I don't like tofu, kale, or cooking, so I may be SOL. :p

Interesting re:the freeganism @MonkeyJenga
 That makes a lot of sense to me and it's great to see people utilizing everything that is already in rotation (unfortunately so MUCH getting tossed at times)
For your non-cooking self, a summer favorite of mine are fresh spring rolls..

they require a bit of prep but once you have a routine they are a cinch to make with whatever veg you have on hand with rice noodles..plus..peanut sauce :)

https://minimalistbaker.com/rainbow-spring-rolls-with-ginger-peanut-sauce/

We just made a huge batch of pesto pasta with chives/parsley from the garden (people can add nutritional yeast to replace the parmesan) Yum.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #214 on: June 11, 2018, 07:05:18 AM »
Following here to learn about new options. I don't like tofu, kale, or cooking, so I may be SOL. :p

You can definitely be an "unhealthy" vegan - chips & hummus/guac/salsa, oreos, non-dairy ice creams, etc. etc.

I don't like tofu plain and it took me awhile to figure it out.  I think it's either an acquired taste or something you need to find *how* you like it cooked.

Veggie burger patties are a go-to.  About $1/patty and good for a snack or a larger meal (burger/sandwich).

DarkandStormy

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #215 on: June 11, 2018, 09:28:16 AM »
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17442558/ezra-klein-show-book-melanie-joy-vegan-vegetarian-carnism-amazon

Good recommendations here - plus a podcast listen if you're so inclined.

Hirondelle

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #216 on: June 12, 2018, 12:10:30 AM »
Love spring rolls! Made some last weekend for a picknick with friends (one vegan among us) and everyone loved them. It's also gluten free and nut free and lactose free so it's one of those recipes that's got almost all common allergies covered.

My recipe is easier than the one posted and closer to the original Vietnamese version:
- Cut slices of carrots, paprika, cucumber and lettuce
- Soak rice paper (or tapioca) in warm water
- Boil some rice noodles
- Put cilantro, mint (I have my own plants for those so just pick it from them), veggies and noodles on rice paper
- Roll
- Dip in soy sauce or fish sauce (the latter not being vegan ofc but I have a weak spot for fish sauce)

I also had a dinner from uni last week and the vegetarian/vegan options were extremely disappointing. It was really a meat + sides focussed meal, with only about half of the sides being vegan (the rest vegetarian). That led to some funny discussions about how someone's professor had just turned vegetarian and had no clue how to cook without meat. It sounded odd to me. That you have trouble finding vegan options (coming from a meat-centered diet) I can imagine, but how hard can it be to find vegetarian recipes? 95% of what I cook is even vegan without me particularly trying. So many options for pasta dishes or rice dishes or noodle dishes or even just good old Dutch potato +veggie + fake meat dishes.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #217 on: June 12, 2018, 07:43:55 AM »
Honestly, I'm worried about having a worse diet if I cut out chicken, turkey, tuna, and salmon.

This makes no sense.

Hirondelle

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #218 on: June 12, 2018, 09:04:28 AM »
Honestly, I'm worried about having a worse diet if I cut out chicken, turkey, tuna, and salmon.

This makes no sense.

If calory difference is replaced by candy/sugary crap/ice cream, it might end up being a worse diet. Not all that's vegan is healthy. 

Serendip

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #219 on: June 12, 2018, 08:56:28 PM »
Yes..the spring roll recipe is a bit much--I don't use it and am more free-form but thought it might be helpful :)

We eat spring rolls regularly in the summer, so we always have rice paper, vermicelli, chili garlic sauce, etc on hand. that way all we need is to chop up veggies and go.

Tonight: made some vegan comfort food from this recipe https://www.veganricha.com/2017/10/chickpea-spinach-pie-berbere-spice.html

Chickpea Spinach Pie..not sure when I became infatuated with food, but now I happily spend time cooking up recipes, especially on a rainy day. This one is nice since it's simple food (chickpeas, greens, spices). The only thing I bought were pastry sheets as I had everything else in the house and my SO loved it (he eats quite a lot of animal product so it's nice to find food that both of us enjoy since we like to have dinners together )

Serendip

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #220 on: June 12, 2018, 09:10:07 PM »
Also..trying this tomorrow with lettuce & chives from the garden.

http://www.isachandra.com/2018/05/sesame-cold-noodle-bundles/

Rustychase

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #221 on: June 14, 2018, 09:12:36 PM »
Sooo I'm moving into a new house with ZERO food items, so I guess it's a good time to start shopping more vegan when there's nothing else in the house! What are some suggestions you guys have?

I've got on my list so far

  • tofu (I want to try this out, but I'll need some seasonings suggestions)
  • rice
  • chia seeds (for smoothies!)
  • flour and baking powder
  • granola
  • peanuts

Veggies and fruits of course! But that's depending on prices haha

I'm gonna try out some of the recipes I've seen too, I think.

Hirondelle

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #222 on: June 14, 2018, 11:27:24 PM »
Some of my additions would be:
- Coconut milk: for curries or M41s delicious desert option posted previously. Fits nice with the tofu.
- Pasta: so you can make your own vegan pasta-pesto.
- Soy yoghurt: I prefer the flavor over normal yoghurt
- Oats
- Non-peanut nuts
- Olive oil and other plant-based oils
- Vinegar for salads
- Peanut butter
- Chickpeas & tahin to make hummus (you could also just buy hummus directly)
- Potatoes
- Soy sauce
- Olives
- Dried fruits (dates, raisins)

Re tofu: I usually just use it in curries or fried rice recipes so I don't do particular seasoning but it's fried with curry paste, but M41 has posted a tofu-omelette idea some pages ago which also looks really nice. Shame on me for still not having tried it.

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #223 on: June 15, 2018, 08:18:54 AM »
I'm so happy you're on this thread MJ! <3 ... A few bullet points for you:

* oranges == calcium! yeah!

* hummus IS healthy - just check that it doesn't have 20 ingredients most of which are stabilizers and preservatives. obviously homemade is the best.

* lentils. stock up with lentils. I just made this easy mode dahl recipe.  If you can chop an onion and mince two cloves of garlic, it's quick and so delicious. M12 and I are slurping it up as I type.

EASY MODE DAHL: https://www.vegetariantimes.com/recipes/yellow-lentil-dal

MORE CHOPPIN' BUT STILL EASY MODE: http://instantpoteats.com/turkish-split-pea-soup-instant-pot-recipe/

I second Hirondelle's & RustyChase's suggestions for stocking up the kitchen. Also: ground flax seed. Add ground flax seed to your oatmeal. It's high in omega 3s and IDR all the benefits but it's one of the wonder foods in the vegan pyramid. (whole flax passes right through you with minimal absorption of nutrients)

Who has used the cronometer or daily dozen apps? What do you think? I found both quite useful as I transitioned from std western bullshit diet to whole food plant based food pyramid.

Last bullet point:

* when you make rice try to use brown whole grain - and make sure it's from California or somewhere other than the southeast US. Not to frighten you, but there's loads of arsenic in the soil in SE US from the days of cotton when arsenic was used as a pesticide. Unfortunately, rice has an affinity for absorbing arsenic from the soil.

@Serendip I'm adding that spinach chickpea comfort dish to our rotation.

@DarkandStormy - I listened to that podcast with Ezra Klein and Melanie Joy this very morning! I love her perspective. Between her book and Tobias Leenart's "How to Create a Vegan World", I feel like I'm much more effective at talking with people, and providing bits of info in such a way that it's likely to be received willingly rather than opposed defensively. Melanie Joy kicks ass.

Ultimately, I've come to be a 3 reason vegan - I do it for all the reasons: health & environment & ethics. As much as I want to be healthy, and as much as my heart aches for the dairy cows, battery hens, castrated piglets and the rest of the 70billion per year fellow earthlings we brutalize and exploit, the motivation that drives the fire in my belly is the environment. I want my son to inherit a world he can live in. I want all of our children to inherit a world they can live in. Adopting a plant based diet in the western world, and staying with plant based diets in developing worlds is necessary and we need to do it now.  In my estimation, the world going plant-based probably is not enough on its own for humanity's survival, but it's an important piece and we need to put it in place ASAP.

I love this thread and am so happy people keep joining - some who are new and some with who've been wonderful partners on my MMM journey over the years. <3.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 02:11:12 PM by Malaysia41 »

Rustychase

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #224 on: June 15, 2018, 10:05:38 AM »
@Malaysia41 these are some good bullet points! I might try out those recipes first, cause I like easy. I'm still a beginner cook, but at least I'm past the pastas only stage! Also! Hi, nice to meet you haha

Thanks @Hirondelle for your points too, I'm not a fan of coconut milk but I do like almond milk.

@MonkeyJenga I've never had chili! Do you have a favorite recipe? I'd like to try it.

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #225 on: June 17, 2018, 01:30:21 AM »
Regarding Harris teeter. The company is based in NC. Without origin marked on the package, I would assume their rice is from SE US.

https://www.harristeeter.com/about-us :

Quote
Harris Teeter, a wholly-owned subsidiary of The Kroger Co. (NYSE: KR), was co-founded in 1960 by North Carolina grocers W.T. Harris and Willis Teeter. Harris Teeter operates over 230 stores and 14 fuel centers in seven states and the District of Columbia.

In addition to its retail stores, Harris Teeter also owns grocery, frozen food, and perishable distribution centers in Greensboro, NC and Indian Trail, NC, as well as a dairy in High Point, NC.

Harris Teeter is headquartered in Matthews, NC and has approximately 30,000 associates.

California origins is a selling point for rice - so in my experience most rice coming from California is loudly and proudly marked as such. Personally, I would not buy rice that doesn't indicate its origins. Incredibly, rice from Italy is high in arsenic too!  So I try to buy rice from Pakistan or India.

regardless of origins, if you soak and rinse your rice before cooking, then boil it like pasta - (more water, drain and rinse again after cooking), you can decrease the amount of arsenic you ingest.

Dr. Greger did a series of 5 min videos on arsenic in rice. Here's a good starting point:

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/which-brands-and-sources-of-rice-have-the-least-arsenic/
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 01:36:45 AM by Malaysia41 »

Rustychase

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #226 on: June 18, 2018, 08:17:49 AM »
@MonkeyJenga I've never had chili! Do you have a favorite recipe? I'd like to try it.

It's a stretch to call this a recipe, but it's flexible and gets the point across. This makes a huge amount of food, definitely should make a smaller batch while you're figuring out what you like. There's a lot of stuff, but it's all basic steps. Chop up some vegetables (or buy pre-chopped), cook beans (or open a few cans), and throw it all in a pot. Tada!

MJ's Rainbow Chili

Ingredients:

4-6 cans of beans or 1-2 pounds dry (2:1 black beans to kidney, or all black beans, or half lentils, half black beans - if you have beans already, use those)
1 can sweet corn*
1-2 yellow squash*
1 sweet potato*
1-2 bell peppers*
Any other vegetables you want to throw in
1 onion
4-6 cloves garlic
large can of crushed or diced tomatoes
green chilis - can be small can of Rotel equivalent, or chilis on their own
Cumin - more than you think is right
Chili powder - same deal, put in an obscene amount
Black pepper - not as much as the cumin and chili powder, but still a lot
Red pepper flakes - as much as you like
Oregano - optional
Salt - more or less depending on how much is included in any canned ingredients
Garlic powder/Onion powder if needed

* = optional. I've used peas, spinach, carrots, beets, and zucchini. Everything ends up tasting like chili powder, so it's a good way to sneak in food you don't like.

Steps:

Saute the onion and garlic.
Add the tomatoes/chilis/spices.
Add beans.
Chop up the vegetables and toss in.
Let it all simmer for a bit.
Add more of whatever spices you want until it tastes good.

Mix with rice, vegan cheese, vegan sour cream, salsa verde, peanut butter, whatever.

I'm definitely not a carrot person, could definitely be a good way to eat those! This sounds yummy, I'm gonna try to make it sometime this week (:

Yankuba

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #227 on: June 18, 2018, 10:07:06 AM »
This is my chili recipe:

1 can kidney beans (no salt added)
1 can chickpeas (no salt added)
1 can diced tomatoes (plain or spicy)
1 can vegetarian chili if you can find it (optional)
1 can corn (no salt added)
1 can olives
1 container leaf spinach
1 container cut mushrooms
1 bag of frozen brown rice
1 package taco seasoning
1 bag frozen veggie meat (optional)

Throw everything in a big pot and cook until the spinach wilts. Traditional chili doesn't have half of what I throw in but it is good and healthy and there is no cutting involved. Whole thing takes less than 15 minutes and makes five meals or so.

imadandylion

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #228 on: July 02, 2018, 02:07:42 PM »
Soooo, I know I made this post a few pages back here about being patient with people who make anti-vegan comments, but today, 11 months after starting veganism and having to listen to this garbage, it's starting to really grate on me. And I'm on vacation, too, so obviously this is really bothering me.

I have not snapped at anyone yet, but I feel like I want to.

Rationally, perhaps the comments can be classified as "not that bad," but it definitely also gets old.

The other day, I was at a work function at a baseball game on a Friday after work and my direct supervisor/'boss' hadn't talked to me at all much less acknowledged me or my fiance. Not that I was trying to keep track or care, because I wasn't trying to talk to her either. There's a lot of dislike I have towards this person, but I won't get into that. Anyway, it just astounded me that after not having talked to me at all, the catering people finally bring in the black bean burgers for the vegetarian/vegans of the office and she walks by my fiance and I eating and kind of smirks and says simply, "Is that the vegan option?" Really? She has nothing to say to me all day, and THIS is the comment she goes for? All righty.

Yea, I know, this doesn't sound like much to get worked up over, but when you have a litany of stupid tiny remarks like this all the time, it just makes me want to be like, "Okay. Okay. WHAT. WHAT the ___ is your problem?!"  It's particularly irksome because these kind of people act like it doesn't bother them necessarily, but then will make stupid comments like that every time you eat something.  Please note, I have NEVER even once made a comment to anyone about why they should go vegan or anything about veganism in any manner. Everything they are saying is apparently all from some internalized bull shit, with no fodder from my end. If they want to ask me why I went vegan, then whatever, I'll answer, but I'm not "sanctimonious" about it, though I understand people usually apply that descriptor anyway.  (How many times have you heard someone doing something environmentally friendly such as recycling and being called a "tree hugger" or "hippie?" for instance. People always immediately make fun of people like this, even if they aren't saying anything to them. People who have negativity towards this for whatever reason are inevitability thinking, "Look at this naive person, they think they're going to save the world! LOLSIES!")  I do understand being vegan makes people uncomfortable and they internalize a lot of crap, but GOODNESS GRIEF, JUST LEAVE ME ALONE! These people are just as annoying, if not worse, than those special group of insecure tightwads who always feel the need to shout out "MACS ARE STUPID!!!" (or vice versa) even if you didn't say if Macs are better or not than PCs (or vice versa).

Unsolicited commentary is really just annoying.  Has this happened to you lot at all, and what have you done about it? While I want to be as courteous and professional as possible, I don't feel the need to be some sort of door mat that has to absorb all this commentary just because I'm the closest vegan. I don't really know what to say without sounding annoyed. Maybe a terse, "Stop," would suffice?

Another recent incident at the office is when I was going to grab a lunch box. Our office is creative and we have lunch and learns, where product representatives come and talk and bring lunch so we can eat while they present. Anyway, we put in our order in advance so when we go into the meeting room, we just grab the lunch. I ordered something plant-based, of course, but that doesn't matter. So I walk in there with my vegetarian coworker and we are going to the side table to grab our food. My other coworker, who has made a lot of anti-vegan comments upon someone else telling him I was vegan, blurted out, "Lots of bread and butter for imadandylion!" Yeah, no.

Why does this comment annoy the _____ out of me? Three reasons. (1) Probably because I'm a cook/baker by hobby. I understand lazy people who don't want to bake bread because they classify anything as taking any amount of time is "hard" (e.g. waiting for dough to rise when in reality you are not standing attentively, staring at the dough and waiting it for it to rise... but that's definitely my own irrational annoyance, I guess), so therefore they do not ever even attempt to begin a task as basic and inexpensive as baking bread. So how would they know what bread is composed of? It definitely doesn't need dairy or eggs. (Yes, I understand some places make breads with dairy/eggs.) I guess i just don't like people sarcastically joking about what I can or can't be eating, when they don't even know what goes into food. Ironic, because most of the world think it's soooooooo "sad" that kids can't answer where their food comes, but yet most adults don't either... much less know how to make the food. Yeah, sorry, that came off a little scathing, but I'm just really frustrated over stupid comments like this. I mean, what did I do really? I just walked into a room. And I needed to hear that comment, why? There was really no point to the comment. We're not friends. And I especially do not respect this person as a competent coworker.  (2)  I hate when people assume I even like bread and butter or that I am otherwise craving a food that people commonly like. Stop assuming I am "missing" something when I am perfectly happy eating my plant based food that I made zero comments over.  (3) The other thing I noticed is that the bread and butter is specifically and sarcastically "for" me, but not my vegetarian coworkers.  Now, I know vegetarians do eat dairy, but no one ever gives vegetarians shit about being vegetarians, and I'm definitely not saying anyone should be giving them shit, but really, no one needs to give anyone any shit.

In these cases, I didn't say anything because I was employing my usual "brick wall routine" but it's been nearly a year, and people are STILL making stupid little comments like that. Maybe people might think I'm "sensitive," but honestly, as a bonafide introvert I just prefer to recede quietly into the background.

I was also accused of forcing my fiance to become vegan by my brother-in-law, but he's an idiot, so whatever. But still. Annoying. My fiance's a grown man. He makes his own decisions.  You can't "make" someone decide to make the multiple choices that occur on a daily basis to consume or not consume something. We've been doing this for a while now. Why are people still commenting like it's a new thing?  Seriously, sometimes I just want to dramatically stand up if I'm not already, throw my hands up, and exasperatedly exclaim, "All right, that is IT. Okay?! NO MORE." But I don't know if that's the best route. I still need to work here and see these incompetent, untalented people every day.  There's a lot more comments and crapping-on, I just chose to write about the most recent ones.

Sorry if this is off-topic or too negative for this thread. I just don't feel like there's a lot of people I know who would understand except my fiance.  Any advice on how to take the high road would be greatly appreciated.

--------

And because I should probably contribute something positive to this thread...

Daily Dozen App - Yes! I've used this. I could be more diligent about checking things off every day, but when I have used it, it has been a helpful reminder or method to plan meals or otherwise throw in something at the last minute to check something off the list that I otherwise wouldn't have. Usually I'm not very good about nuts/seeds or "healthy fats."

Someone commented on hummus being a great thing that's also inexpensive to bring to a potluck. That is a great idea and something I usually like to bring to parties too, with some cut up vegetables, tomatoes, and crackers. I like to keep my contributions to potlucks inexpensive, too, so here's an idea:  Three bean salad.  I once brought a homemade three-bean salad to a work potluck and it was a hit, surprisingly. I don't know why I was surprised, really, but I'm happy I brought it because there were some people who aren't necessarily vegans or vegetarians and they told me they were glad I brought it "couldn't find anything else to eat" at the potluck because they're so picky.  It's just three beans of your choice, vinegar (apple cider vinegar is preferred), and sweetener of your choice (usually cane sugar or maple syrup), parsley, chopped celery, and good ol' salt and pepper - marinate overnight or a few hours prior to serving. One of the easiest things ever.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 02:22:01 PM by imadandylion »

Serendip

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #229 on: July 04, 2018, 11:41:10 AM »
@imadandylion Sorry to hear you have had to deal with this on a regular basis..it can definitely be frustrating/annoying, especially when you are taking a laid-back approach!  This it such a personal choice and yet, the comments you are hearing can't be taken personally as they speak more about the person making them rather than about you.
I hope your co-workers can offer you some space and respect.

Sometimes I feel that it's fortunate that there are so many people with dietary restrictions (both chosen or physiological) in my community--it's so common that it doesn't get the same response as 10 years ago :)


Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #230 on: July 04, 2018, 11:36:35 PM »
@imadandylion - thanks for your rant. I can imagine. Going vegan in FIRE is clearly decidedly easier than going vegan while working full time. 

You wrote:

Quote
(3) The other thing I noticed is that the bread and butter is specifically and sarcastically "for" me, but not my vegetarian coworkers.  Now, I know vegetarians do eat dairy, but no one ever gives vegetarians shit about being vegetarians, and I'm definitely not saying anyone should be giving them shit, but really, no one needs to give anyone any shit.

Well, I for one, give vegetarians plenty of shit for eating dairy - especially if they're vegetarian for ethical reasons. In fact, I judge them way harsher than full-on carnists. It makes no fucking sense to me to be vegetarian and still eat dairy. The only explanation is that they haven't done their research into dairy yet. So I'm always happy to fill them in on what consuming dairy really means. I know - I'm a real saint right?

M50 and I were talking yesterday and we both agreed that if we were forced to make a choice between eating either a 75-100g serving of meat, or some serving of dairy (milk or cheese or yogurt), we'd both choose the meat. That's how bad dairy is.

The dairy industry IS the meat industry. I don't get how ethical vegetarians don't get that. Unless, like I said, they haven't done any research at all. But I don't even get THAT!  Once I started down the rabbit hole looking into our animal ag industry, I couldn't stop. It was like, 'okay - what's the next veil to lift?'  Oh shit - wool's bad (esp Australian merino wool - see mulesing). Oh shit - eggs are bad. Oh shit - honey is problematic enough that I'll try to avoid it - Oh thank God I can still eat clammies now and then based on my own moral compass that's tethered to environment, ethics and health, etc.

Sorry now I'm ranting.

Thank you for your suggestion of bean salad. I'm having a 'hot ones' party tomorrow and loads of meat eaters are coming. I'm not saying the v word at all - but everything I serve will be vegan.

We experimented yesterday making this seitan 'fried chicken'. I'm conflicted. The food turned out delicious, but I felt yucky afterward having eaten so much fried oil flour nastiness. I want my guests to love the food for both its taste and how they feel after the party.

Any suggestions for what to serve? I'm expecting about 15 people and I'm serving:

cauliflower hot wings (for the competition)
hummus
black bean dip
salsa
tortilla chips
quinoa taboulleh
lots of homemade vegan cheeses like this one:
https://www.exceedinglyvegan.com/vegan-recipes/dips-sauces-cheese/vegan-cranberry-cheese
your 3 bean salad

 
and other stuff.

WHAT ELSE DO YOU RECOMMEND?


Hirondelle

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #231 on: July 05, 2018, 01:17:42 AM »
If there's tortilla chips there should be guacamole too :)

And I'm always a big fan of fresh spring rolls - easy to keep them vegan.

imadandylion

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #232 on: July 05, 2018, 04:41:50 AM »
@Serendip Thanks for reading my venting. Yeah, I can see how it says more about them, especially since I'm not offering anything for them to go on. It's like when they see me, or any vegan probably, they have this intense urge to verbally vomit something anti-vegan. Definitely sounds like a personal problem. I would probably be more understanding if it I actually did say classically inflammatory things, like referencing the devil as synonymous with meat and such, but nope, I don't do that.  So I have actual cause to be annoyed.  I will try to find some way to tell people to stop with this word vomit, hopefully without flying off the handle.  On the other hand, the other people are the baseball game were pretty nice and were even trying the black bean burgers and saying they were really good - because they were legitimately an exemplary version of how good vegan food can be without forgoing taste. Even a new person to the firm was commenting how she used to be vegan for 2 years. Maybe I can steer her back our way. :P It sounded like she still wants to be, but found it difficult with dating a meat eater.

@Malaysia41 Yeah, I wish I was FIRE-d already or be able to work from home so I wouldn't have to deal with this. Part of the reason why I eat lunch at my desk is so I can take a walk during lunch time instead, to avoid eating lunch in the work break room because people will inevitably make some comment about my food. Plus, it's good to leave the office and get some fresh air.

I totally feel you on the dairy thing and love that you say something about it. I don't understand knowing something and still intentionally, actually desiring to eat dairy. Maybe it's easier for me having grown up not eating cheese regularly. For example, I never knew people actually consumed large gobs of cheese alone (e.g. on cheese plates) until I got to college.  But yes, for me, it's hard to forget or ignore, and the more I've learned about various industries like dairy and wool/clothing, it's totally bizarre to me how people can be comfortable or accepting of certain things... like fast fashion! Ugh - don't even get me started on general waste.  I do appreciate your mini rant. It's good to not let it consume us, but it's also nice to be able to relate with others on the topic! I would also choose meat over dairy if I had to - the fact that people aren't "lactose intolerant" and instead just shouldn't be consuming milk of any kind as an adult and can't probably digest them is convincing enough. My fiance had to go to a conference a  few months back and got a vegetarian dish catered, and he became very ill because there was apparently dairy in it the dish. It's not worth it. And for me especially, it's not worth the break outs (acne), or feeling bloated/gassy/etc.

For the pot luck, that menu sounds pretty good and well-rounded. I like the idea of spring rolls (just make sure to keep them moist so they don't dry out), or even a "deconstructed" version, like a rice noodle salad (the same fixings, but with rice noodles instead of the rice paper). I also like noodles in general, like a vegetable lo mein stir fry (always seems popular in my experience), or even a soba dish, especially with edamame. You could also do lettuce cups/tacos with crumbled tofu, tempeh, beans, or jackfruit & sweet potato. I was going to say quinoa salad but you have the taboulleh listed. :) I always like salads that include olives and marinated artichoke hearts, too - I think those are always crowd pleasers. I love a simple massaged kale salad with kalamatas, lots of lemon juice, artichoke hearts, sliced almonds, sliced onions, fresh garlic, salt and pepper, and cherry tomatoes. You could also do a pasta salad variation. It'd also be pretty easy to throw together a simple pizza with pesto or red sauce and some artichoke hearts, olives, onions, mushrooms, basil, etc.  I find potstickers are pretty good and easy to make, but if you haven't made those before you probably wouldn't want to try to learn how to fold a bunch of them right before a potluck. But they were a great choice because you can put anything inside, pair with a good sauce, and they look impressive. :) Have fun at your party!

SupersavingMMM

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #233 on: July 06, 2018, 12:41:02 AM »
Popping a post here to keep an eye on some recipes coming through.

Work can be a problem for me.  Cookies, flapjacks, general nibbles when available.  Nearly always with butter in.

Canít, in all honesty, call myself a vegan but havenít eaten meat for absolutely ages, same with eggs, and have reduced my dairy by about 95%.

Made the blondies yesterday....was apprehensive but they werenít too bad!


mm1970

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #234 on: July 06, 2018, 01:33:48 PM »
I'm a Dr Greger fan, myself.  I don't think he cherry picks data; it's just that the truth is hard to hear for some people. 

I just passed along this interesting tidbit (or dare I say, 'nutrition fact') to someone else on these boards:

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/alzheimers-disease/

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-not-to-die-review#section1

mm1970

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #235 on: July 06, 2018, 01:38:32 PM »
Quote
You can definitely be an "unhealthy" vegan - chips & hummus/guac/salsa, oreos, non-dairy ice creams, etc. etc.

What's wrong with hummus/ guac/ salsa?

Unless you are referring to the chips.

I love adding hummus to my vegetables, or salsa and guac to my salads.  I get a lot of "How can you just eat a salad for lunch every day, don't you get hungry?"  Uh, no?  Seeds, chickpeas, sometimes avocado, olives, plenty of olive oil-based dressing (homemade), keeps me plenty full.

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #236 on: July 08, 2018, 11:37:15 PM »
I'm a Dr Greger fan, myself.  I don't think he cherry picks data; it's just that the truth is hard to hear for some people. 

I just passed along this interesting tidbit (or dare I say, 'nutrition fact') to someone else on these boards:

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/alzheimers-disease/

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-not-to-die-review#section1

I just read way more about kidney stones than ever before. I definitely don't want to pass one that's for sure.

Okay - I dug into the first criticism in that article. Here's what I found. Let's start with what the healthline article says.

Quote from: HEALTHLINE_ARTICLE
For example, as evidence that high-oxalate vegetables aren't a problem for kidney stones (a bold claim, given the wide acceptance of foods like rhubarb and beets as risky for stone formers), Greger cites a paper that doesn't actually look at the effects of high-oxalate vegetables — only total vegetable intake (pages 170-171).

For example, as evidence that high-oxalate vegetables aren't a problem for kidney stones (a bold claim, given the wide acceptance of foods like rhubarb and beets as risky for stone formers), Greger cites a paper that doesn't actually look at the effects of high-oxalate vegetables — only total vegetable intake (pages 170-171).

Along with stating "there is some concern that greater intake of some vegetables ... might increase the risk of stone formation as they are known to be rich in oxalate," the researchers suggest the inclusion of high-oxalate veggies in participants' diets could have diluted the positive results they found for vegetables as a whole: "It is also possible that some of the [subjects'] intake is in the form of high-oxalate containing foods which may offset some of the protective association demonstrated in this study" (1).

In other words, Greger selected a study that not only couldn't support his claim, but where the researchers suggested the opposite.

Sounds pretty damning. So, I read the relevant part of HNTD, as well as the entire underlying study cited.

So in essence, the author of the healthline article asserts this cited NCBI study shows the opposite of what Dr. Greger claims. But I found this to be untrue. Here's why. 

First, it's worth noting that the paragraph in Dr. Greger's book that's being criticized is about oxalates. The paragraph is under the kidney stone chapter and the underlying study is one of the last sources that Greger cites. At this point in the chapter, Greger's case about the link between animal protein and kidney stones has already been made. So this criticism is about one of the finer points that's not really a center-point of Greger's argument. And this finer point is on oxalates. Fair enough, but it's worth noting the place this nit holds in the overall argument. So let's dig in.

Dr. Greger writes,

Quote from: DR_GREGER_HOW_NOT_TO_DIE
Most kidney stones are composed of calcium oxalate, which forms like rock candy when urine becomes supersaturated with calcium and oxalates.

(then he presents evidence that cutting down on calcium is only half as effective as cutting down on animal proteins in reducing kidney stones. The healthline article does not criticize this claim).

Greger continues,

Quote from: DR_GREGER_HOW_NOT_TO_DIE
What about cutting down on oxalates, which are concentrated in certain vegetables?  Reassuringly, a recent study found there was no increased risk of stone formation with higher vegetable intake. In fact, greater intake of fruits and vegetables was associated with a reduced risk independent of other known risk factors, meaning there may be additional benefits to bulking up on plant foods above and beyond restricting animal foods.

This claim is supported in the NCBI study. Here's the first paragraph in the conclusion. Dr. Greger's statement is pretty much a restatement of this paragraph:

Quote from: NCBI_STUDY
This study demonstrated that women with the highest quintile intake of fiber, fruit, and vegetables were 22%, 15%, and 22% less likely to report an incident stone event, respectively, compared to women with the lowest quintile intake for postmenopausal women with no history of stones in adjusted analyses. This represents a difference of about 2 portions per day of fruits and vegetables, or an increase of 12 grams per day of fiber intake between the lowest and highest quintiles of intake. The effects of fiber, fruit and vegetable intake on stone risk appear to be independent from the traditional dietary risk factors including calories, fluid, sodium, animal protein and calcium intake. Increased intake of fruits and vegetables has previously been shown to increase urine volume, pH, potassium, magnesium, citrate, phytate and other stone inhibitors, resulting in a decrease in the supersaturation of calcium oxalate and uric acid.6 It is also possible that women with the highest intake of fruits, vegetables and other fiber containing foods are making other healthy dietary choices, or perhaps avoiding foods that may increase the risk of stone formation.

 Note that Dr. Greger says there 'may' be benefits to bulking up on plant foods above and beyond restricting animal foods. He's already established that cutting down on animal proteins reduced incidences of kidney stones. This paper absolutely backs up this further statement about vegetables as the study focuses on vegetable intake, independent of animal protein intake.

So what about the part of the healthline article where the author says the researchers say oxalates are bad for kidney stones? Here's the healthline article again:

Quote from: HEALTLINE_ARTICLE
Along with stating "there is some concern that greater intake of some vegetables ... might increase the risk of stone formation as they are known to be rich in oxalate," the researchers suggest the inclusion of high-oxalate veggies in participants' diets could have diluted the positive results they found for vegetables as a whole: "It is also possible that some of the [subjects'] intake is in the form of high-oxalate containing foods which may offset some of the protective association demonstrated in this study" (1)

What the healthline article omits is this further comment in the NCBI study:

Quote from: NCBI_STUDY
The nuances of which vegetables are high in oxalate can be confusing, and information from medical providers or internet sources are often incomplete, and thus patients may be globally reducing vegetable intake in an attempt to reduce their oxalate intake. Reassuringly, this study specifically found no increased risk of stone formation with higher vegetable intake.

Note that the Healthline article takes issue with a statement in the 'possible limitations' section of the NCBI study. This is the place where the researchers guess at possible holes or weaknesses in their methodology or datasets. This is where they list areas for more research to make sure those parts of the study hold up. So it's sort of a "if I were to poke holes to see what falls down, I'd look at these things" discussion. So, they acknowledge the conventional wisdom (but again, they do not claim the conventional wisdom is true).  "

This 'damning' comment in the NCBI is more a question than statement.

In other words, what the researchers are saying is that *if* there is any truth to the standard conventional wisdom (they are not claiming the conventional wisdom is true), then high oxalate vegetable consumption may have affected the results. This is not a statement that high oxalate foods cause kidney stones - it's a guess and a call for further study.

Given all this, in my view, the healthline article's lead example completely fails to prove 'cherry picking'. In fact, the argument is so disingenuous it's further evidence to me that healthline is an untrustworthy source of medical opinion and advice. Maybe you read it differently, but that's the way I see it. So, I'm going to stop there.

In general, I prefer to get my news from non-profits. Nutritionfacts.org is a non-profit. Healthline is for-profit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthline
They recently received $95M in funding from Summit Partners, a venture capital firm. It's hard to know who their underlying investors are.  They very well could be some industry lobby group with vested interests in status quo agriculture. Who knows?

As for Greger - I still don't think he cherry picks. Sure, he's going to bring forward articles that make strong cases for a whole food plant based diet. And this article he cites - despite their discussion of oxalates being a question mark to be studied further - absolutely supports his case.

It is possible however I was trying to see here what I wanted to see, even as I tried very hard to maintain clear unbiased perspective in digging down into this healthline criticism.

That said, if there's another piece of evidence you think makes a better case for cherry picking, I guess I'll take another look. But it needs to be solid, not like this case, centered on a throw-away statement in an underlying study.

Thank you for posting this. I know more about kidney stones and oxalates, and have strengthened my knowledge on PBDs. :)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 11:55:40 PM by Malaysia41 »

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #237 on: July 08, 2018, 11:59:02 PM »
Changed the title to focus on WFPD exclusively. What do you guys think?

AmandaPanda

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #238 on: July 09, 2018, 01:17:03 PM »
I am super overweight and unhealthy.  I've been listening to the Food Heals podcast, and decided to go vegan starting today.  Because I put on about 5 pounds last week camping (high meat and alcohol diet), for this week only I also am not eating any grains, oil, or sugar, except in a spicy vinaigrette I made for my daily salad.  Honestly, I'm hoping for dramatic results.  I put on about 15 pounds pretty quickly last summer, and I haven't been able to shake it since.  I was already overweight, but those 15 pounds put me in the obese category.

I do 90% of my cooking and food prep on Sundays.  This week I made:

Roasted sweet potatoes/brussels sprouts/kale with walnuts
Small red beans
Roasted savoy cabbage/eggplant/mushrooms/pattypan squash/shishito peppers/broccoli (most of that was from a CSA box I get weekly)
Salad of mixed greens with cukes, peppers, carrots, radishes, red onion, sunflower seeds, pepitas, avocado, homemade dressing.

I also have various fruits, and have a smoothie planned for each morning with spinach, berries, banana, almond butter, almond milk, chia seeds.

I am married with two children, so the roasted veggies are for all to share.  Both kids tried plain radishes and like them! They also both liked roasted broccoli!

mm1970

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #239 on: July 09, 2018, 02:41:03 PM »
I am super overweight and unhealthy.  I've been listening to the Food Heals podcast, and decided to go vegan starting today.  Because I put on about 5 pounds last week camping (high meat and alcohol diet), for this week only I also am not eating any grains, oil, or sugar, except in a spicy vinaigrette I made for my daily salad.  Honestly, I'm hoping for dramatic results.  I put on about 15 pounds pretty quickly last summer, and I haven't been able to shake it since.  I was already overweight, but those 15 pounds put me in the obese category.

I do 90% of my cooking and food prep on Sundays.  This week I made:

Roasted sweet potatoes/brussels sprouts/kale with walnuts
Small red beans
Roasted savoy cabbage/eggplant/mushrooms/pattypan squash/shishito peppers/broccoli (most of that was from a CSA box I get weekly)
Salad of mixed greens with cukes, peppers, carrots, radishes, red onion, sunflower seeds, pepitas, avocado, homemade dressing.

I also have various fruits, and have a smoothie planned for each morning with spinach, berries, banana, almond butter, almond milk, chia seeds.

I am married with two children, so the roasted veggies are for all to share.  Both kids tried plain radishes and like them! They also both liked roasted broccoli!
Roasted broccoli is so good.

We just got back from vacation recently, visiting our families.  Now, we eat a lot of vegetables.  My family?  Not so much.

Every time I cooked (yes I did all the cooking on vacation), the comments from nieces, brother, stepfather:

"This is so good, what is in it?"

I felt like a broken record.

Olive oil, salt, pepper.  Sometimes garlic.

Roasted potatoes.  Roasted broccoli.  Sauteed asparagus.  Sauteed green beans.  Steamed broccoli

Lather, rinse, repeat.  Repeat after me: olive oil, salt, pepper.

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #240 on: July 09, 2018, 11:14:29 PM »
I am super overweight and unhealthy.  I've been listening to the Food Heals podcast, and decided to go vegan starting today.  Because I put on about 5 pounds last week camping (high meat and alcohol diet), for this week only I also am not eating any grains, oil, or sugar, except in a spicy vinaigrette I made for my daily salad.  Honestly, I'm hoping for dramatic results.  I put on about 15 pounds pretty quickly last summer, and I haven't been able to shake it since.  I was already overweight, but those 15 pounds put me in the obese category.

I do 90% of my cooking and food prep on Sundays.  This week I made:

Roasted sweet potatoes/brussels sprouts/kale with walnuts
Small red beans
Roasted savoy cabbage/eggplant/mushrooms/pattypan squash/shishito peppers/broccoli (most of that was from a CSA box I get weekly)
Salad of mixed greens with cukes, peppers, carrots, radishes, red onion, sunflower seeds, pepitas, avocado, homemade dressing.

I also have various fruits, and have a smoothie planned for each morning with spinach, berries, banana, almond butter, almond milk, chia seeds.

I am married with two children, so the roasted veggies are for all to share.  Both kids tried plain radishes and like them! They also both liked roasted broccoli!
Hey AmandaPanda!

My I suggest signing up at challenge22.com?  You'll be put into a facebook group with a few dozen newbie WFPB vegans and about a dozen mentors. You can elect to get a personal mentor, plus you'll have access to certified dietitians.

Going WFPB cold turkey is doable - but there are common pitfalls that the mentors at challenge22 can help you with. For example, if you're like me, you may feel weak and tired after a couple weeks doing WFPB. For me this was due to two reasons:

1. not eating enough. WFPB diet is a low calorie density diet - so you really need to eat A LOT more than you think you do.
2. if your diet ~= standard western diet minus animal products, that's guaranteed to be inadequate nutrition

what's nice about challenge22 is that, in addition to the certified dietitians and mentors, you may discover a whole world of new cuisine opening up to you. At the end you may feel like you've expanded your culinary choices rather than restricted them. Of course - I think you'll get this benefit just being in this MMM thread as well - but challenge 22 is like this thread x10. or x100. okay maybe x20. IDK - just loads more info and support.

As for grains - definitely avoid refined grains - but consider whole grain rice or whole wheat pasta now and then.

Regarding roasted veggies - try roasted cauliflower. OMG it's so good. Also - remember beans! Eat beans daily!  black beans, chickpeas (hummus), edamame or tofu. etc.

Welcome to the thread! and let me know if you sign up at challenge22.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 07:16:48 AM by Malaysia41 »

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #241 on: July 16, 2018, 07:59:59 AM »
I'm in OC California with extended family. They know we eat WFPB / vegan. TBH, I thought they had a better idea of what that meant because over the past few months my husband has been here weeks on end as they stayed with their mom who was dying. Apparently they'd talked a lot about DH's veganism and I had the impression from talking with him that they sort of 'got it'. Obviously they had other things on their minds so I didn't expect them to have become experts in veganism, but I just had the idea that they were keyed into it - you know- after 7 weeks with my husband.

So I was surprised that DH's sister failed to make any accommodations for us at the memorial buffet. Everything had butter or cheese except for one cold pasta dish. I thought - huh - well - no biggie - been in this situation before. I grabbed a few shotglasses of pasta with sundried tomato - that the waitress confirmed were made without butter or cheese, and dumped them on my plate. 

As she looked at my plate of refined pasta and oil, she demanded I wait so she could get us vegan food. 15 min later the chefs had whipped up a gourmet plate of black rice and veggies cooked to perfection with an intricate sauce of IDK what but OMG it was amazing. I aspire to cook like that.  Anyway, I know DH's sister had a lot to plan and maybe forgot - or maybe assumed there'd be vegan options by default IDK. I'm not really complaining about this particular event but describing it as an example.

Obviously - This weekend was DH's mommie's memorial service. It was all about her and the memorial was just what she would have wanted. Really well done. To be clear - I understand that us eating vegan diets isn't a central theme of the weekend, and we haven't made it a big deal. We've made our choices, eaten in advance of events,etc. It's other people bringing it up that puts the subject into the wider conversation.

Then at DH's sis house later that evening, my BIL approached me and proudly announced they'd ordered us gluten free cheeseless pizza. Uh, ok thanks? IDGAF about gluten but I guess I'll eat it because it's the only pizza without cheese.

OMG and my other BIL - told me about how he owns shares in race horses. I guess I'm good at listening and he picked up on that and went on for about a half hour about how a horse had to be castrated because it was so mean. I let my guard down and asked, 'do you think maybe he's mean because he isn't free?'  BIL's reply, "huh, maybe - but anyway we did what needed to be done."

No - castrating that poor horse didn't 'need to be done'. Horse racing is hardly necessary! But I kept that to myself of course.

All of this is mostly half annoying half amusing I guess. But it's my step daughters who are distressing me. I relax my speech around them because well, we're closer. So I've shared some details about animal ag maybe without being prompted. What can I say, I'm less guarded around them.

My 21 yr old step daughter is a self described animal lover. She is nuts about animals and has a lot of animals living with her. Animals are a key part of her identity. I on the other hand, am not at all an animal person. When people approach me with dogs on leashes I stand far away and hope they don't lick my legs. Yeah - that's me.  Hate me for it or no, but that's me. Doesn't help that I have hair trigger allergies so cozying up to animals is the last thing I want to do. Even if i'm not an animal person, it's easy for me to see they have a right to their own lives free of exploitation.

So I wonder, why is it that I - the meh-about-animals-person - I don't want to be a part of torturing animals, but she -the proud animal lover - takes part willingly in a system that tortures animals?

It's breaking my heart. And I have to muster all my energy to maintain an 'easy breezy' disposition as they eat cream and eggs and bacon wrapped chicken-sicles on a stick.

 It floors me that this daughter has heard some bits of info from me - about the dairy industry, pigs, eggs, environmental aspects, etc. mind you just 'bits' - and she continues consuming all these poor animals, and eating the products of their exploitation and enslavement. She's such a kind and caring person and despite knowing an inkling of the truth - about how eating animals is unnecessary for example - and she's continuing to eat all the animal products.

I realize everyone is on their own paths, and people come to see what's really going on in their own time. The teacher will appear when the student is ready. I guess I'm just not the teacher. And she's not ready.

The following video captures how I feel living in this vystopia. I get it - it's not like I've known about animal ag - the ethics, environmental damage, health impacts - my whole life so I should be understanding as I was right there with them a year ago. But what I don't get is why they are so obtuse about learning more. Once I personally started pulling the string and removing the veils, I was quickly of the mindset of 'what else have I been lied to about?'  I'd rather know the truth and make decisions on that rather than continue in a trance like state, colluding with those who profit off of torturing animals, destroying the environment, and destroying our health.

Anyway, here's the video. On one hand, it feels good to see that others share my experience. On the other hand I feel helpless because I know that the more I try to share what I know with people who don't want to hear it, the more they might entrench themselves in the status quo.

https://youtu.be/uGwBe3N2E_Y

In two days I'll be in my hometown. A cube of truth is scheduled near my parent's house and I'll participate in it. I'll get to talk with people who are open to learning about the truth about how humans systematically exploit animals and the environment even when there's no good reason to do so.

 My personal policy is to not do activism on family. I'm not perfect at this, but I've done pretty well here while with family these past 3-4 days. I keep most of my feelings to myself and compact them into a small ball tucked deep in my gut ( :) heh) , and only share my full thoughts with DH (and obv let a few slip to step daughters). Thank goodness for DH. He's my full partner in this. I don't know what I'd do if my husband was munching down on cream dipped bacon wrapped chicken popsicles along with everyone else, as they stare me down and slowly, deliberately chew their animal flesh as I stand there quietly trying to pretend everything is ok. Even when it's not okay . It's fucked up and cruel and destructive and I'm trying my hardest to fight against it with every available tool that I can. But with family - I have to put all that aside and ... just let them be.

I know this was a long post but I'm glad I have this and other places to vent as I pent up all this emotion during this time with family. Today will be my last day here in so cal with this part of the extended family - wish me luck. I need it.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 08:16:08 AM by Malaysia41 »

Yankuba

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #242 on: July 17, 2018, 08:30:11 AM »
What's the deal with jackfruit? My supermarket's vegan section has a lot of packaged jackfruit products in various sauces. Is it tasty? Is it healthy? I've had a lot of terrible packaged vegan items (the last was imitation gyro - yuck) so I would like some feedback before I spend my $5.

Hirondelle

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #243 on: July 17, 2018, 09:47:10 AM »
Jackfruit is quite nice! Not sure why it should be popular as a vegan item tho? Maybe because it's a quite fatty fruit, a bit like avocado and thereby providing nutrients that are harder to come by on a vegan diet?

A quick Google search tells me it's rich in several B vitamins (harder to find in vegan foods) and it has a more meaty structure so it can be used as a meat substitute. Flavor wise I don't think it gets close to meaty taste at all though so I'm not sure if I'd put it as a meat replacer. However I've only eaten it loose and raw as an actual fruit, so I might just be horribly wrong and miss out on the next-best thing.

M41; I'm sorry to hear about your DHs mom. It's frustrating that you're having a bit of a rough time with family and their expectations/behavior. Re your stepdaughter, is she eating high quantities of meat by herself or maybe just being "uncomplicated" and eating when provided but not necessarily cooking it? Maybe she's making steps but just smaller ones that you don't notice. Or maybe she's just like many, wired to consider cows/pigs/chickens as food rather than living animal beings. I'm also still surprised when other people freak out about dog-eaters in Asia while they happily eat beef/pig themselves (as those animals are of comparable intelligence - I'd say chickens are a different category here). Same story for some of the folks I meet irl but also here on the forums who are super concerned about their health, not eating beans cause oh no carbs, yet eating tons of red meat which is well known to cause cancer.

I'm no saint by any means but the lack of courage from many people to at least acknowledge their hypocrisy/cognitive dissonance can get really annoying at times so I'm there with you.

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #244 on: July 17, 2018, 10:35:39 AM »
What's the deal with jackfruit? My supermarket's vegan section has a lot of packaged jackfruit products in various sauces. Is it tasty? Is it healthy? I've had a lot of terrible packaged vegan items (the last was imitation gyro - yuck) so I would like some feedback before I spend my $5.

Some people love it.  I tried one that I bought in Berlin. it was bbq jackfruit. IDK it was weird. It could be that the BBQ sauce was way too sweet and so it was hard to appreciate the jackfruit. In any case I'm not a mock meat fan, so perhaps that biased me.  I've read mixed reviews on jackfruit. So, personally, I'm going to wait to try something specifically recommended to me. l

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #245 on: July 19, 2018, 08:31:29 AM »
What's the deal with jackfruit? My supermarket's vegan section has a lot of packaged jackfruit products in various sauces. Is it tasty? Is it healthy? I've had a lot of terrible packaged vegan items (the last was imitation gyro - yuck) so I would like some feedback before I spend my $5.

Some people love it.  I tried one that I bought in Berlin. it was bbq jackfruit. IDK it was weird. It could be that the BBQ sauce was way too sweet and so it was hard to appreciate the jackfruit. In any case I'm not a mock meat fan, so perhaps that biased me.  I've read mixed reviews on jackfruit. So, personally, I'm going to wait to try something specifically recommended to me. l

@Yankuba - I spoke with some vegan activists at a cube the other day. They said to try *canned* jackfruit, or buy a fresh one (or half or quarter of one as they're huge), and pull it yourself. I see lots of videos and blog posts about how to do this. For example:

http://www.moreveganblog.com/2014/06/28/bbq-pulled-jackfruit/

Yankuba

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #246 on: July 19, 2018, 08:56:41 AM »
What's the deal with jackfruit? My supermarket's vegan section has a lot of packaged jackfruit products in various sauces. Is it tasty? Is it healthy? I've had a lot of terrible packaged vegan items (the last was imitation gyro - yuck) so I would like some feedback before I spend my $5.

Some people love it.  I tried one that I bought in Berlin. it was bbq jackfruit. IDK it was weird. It could be that the BBQ sauce was way too sweet and so it was hard to appreciate the jackfruit. In any case I'm not a mock meat fan, so perhaps that biased me.  I've read mixed reviews on jackfruit. So, personally, I'm going to wait to try something specifically recommended to me. l

@Yankuba - I spoke with some vegan activists at a cube the other day. They said to try *canned* jackfruit, or buy a fresh one (or half or quarter of one as they're huge), and pull it yourself. I see lots of videos and blog posts about how to do this. For example:

http://www.moreveganblog.com/2014/06/28/bbq-pulled-jackfruit/

Thank you. I don't believe the store carries canned or fresh jackfruit but I will keep my eyes open.

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #247 on: July 19, 2018, 10:57:23 AM »
Malaysia41 I just signed up at challenge22.com! I hit a couple roadblocks this weekend, and I had some failures.  I did alert me to what I need to have around to make sure I'm successful.  Almost every weekend for the past several years, at least one frozen pizza is consumed.  So I just need to get the Amy's cheeseless, which I've had before.  I also need some fast vegan individual sweets.  Like fun-size candy bars, or vegan chocolate chips.  Other than those two roadblocks this weekend, it's going pretty well. 

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #248 on: July 19, 2018, 11:53:57 AM »
I'm so excited that a thread like this exists on the MMM forum!

I've been eating a predominantly WFPB diet for the past 1.5 to 2 years now, though I've had my share of "falling off the wagon" so to speak. The important thing I've learned on this journey is that you can always get right back to eating WFPB after a mistake/moment of weakness, so don't beat yourself up too much about it. Every meal is a choice. You'll still be light-years ahead of any carnist in terms of health, ethics, and environmental impact.

I'm definitely going to check out the recipe blogs posted in this thread (and especially can't wait to try out the highly praised blondies recipe!). I would also recommend checking out Caitlin Shoemaker on YouTube, along with her website From My Bowl:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0cxMY7jZ_kiE2bvykJffZA
Website: http://frommybowl.com/

All of her recipes are vegan and she shows how vegan food can be simple, tasty, and cheap. She rarely uses oil or any processed foods in her recipes, so she's predominantly WFPB. Can't recommend her enough!

Edit: a word
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 11:55:45 AM by CyanoStache »

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Re: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018
« Reply #249 on: July 19, 2018, 06:15:16 PM »
@Yankuba Asian grocers will typically carry fresh jackfruit, but usually for the "meaty" stringy/fibrous effect, you want the young green stage.  I have grown up eating this because it's my family's favorite thing to get! Anyway, a lot of people like to use it as "pulled pork" or in bao (chinese steamed buns). I have purchased a can of young green jackfruit with the intent of making bao. I have made vegan bao before without it though, and it's a great treat.

@AmandaPanda I love me some roasted veggies, especially in the summer! My favorites are oyster mushrooms or portobello mushroom caps... Gosh, oyster mushrooms are just amazing if you haven't done that already. They have their own very savory flavor that you can enhanced with just a wee bit of sea salt. I also like roasted beets (quartered). They're good with raspberry balsamic vinegar (an idea from Barefoot Contessa/Ina Garten). I also like nibbling on roasted asparagus on those days I want something green but not like, ya know, a leafy green. If my local market carried it, I would loooove chinese broccoli all the time, which is perfect blanched and then stir fried with a bit of oil, garlic, and salt. Unfortunately I just don't like driving to my local asian grocery since it's kind of far, so asparagus is the next best thing. For bars, it's not exactly a candy bar, but Larabars are super good and can be a little decadent. That's how I prefer it anyway. Lenny and Larry's also makes vegan cookies, although I've only had their snickerdoodle cookie.  I have made my own chocolate chip cookies recently with vegan chocolate chips. They should normally be vegan if they're not milk chocolate... check the labels.

@CyanoStache I keep seeing "no oil" being related to vegan food... Do you know why this is a thing? I understand the health part of not adding extra/processed oils to your diet that don't come from whole foods like avocados or nuts, but can this really be related to veganism or is it just a personal preference?

@Malaysia41 I can relate to everything you said when visiting people. From thinking people "get" vegan food, but then when you go stay over... you're still starving because they really didn't have anything planned for you. Personally, as someone who likes to host things and pay attention to things that will make guests happy, I really fine this to be a strange oversight, but nonetheless, it keeps happening. Last time we were going to help my fiance's mom with moving stuff for one day/night. She kept stressing out saying, "I don't know what to make," before we even got there.  In the morning, we were served ONE platter of store-bought sushi. When I say platter, I mean a small tray for individuals, so maybe 8 pieces of sushi, so we each get 4 pieces... Then for lunch, it was crackers (with dairy in it!!) and one small bowl of store-bought pre-chopped fruit which didn't look that fresh, and chips and salsa. For two people. Who just expended a lot of energy. And didn't have a big breakfast. And were dying from starvation. When I politely tried to suggest going out to lunch, I was made out to be the weird one.  Then for my nephew's birthday party, my sister said, "Don't worry!! There will be tons of vegetables." There was no wholly vegan food except for fruit. -.-  And I didn't have time to bring/make something like I normally would because there was a mishap in her picking me up and not communicating things, therefore not giving me enough time, then I had to babysit her kids while she prepped for the party, etc. Le sigh.

I'm glad you got a good dish whipped up for you at least. And ditto on the gluten-free thing... One of my vegetarian friends ask me if I was gluten-free too and when I was a newborn vegan and I simply told her, "No, I don't have Celiac disease." Lmaoo... I just don't want to eat meat or dairy.

And yes, it's really hard to see people defend eating meat as part of a knee jerk reaction, and worse when they know some things about animal agriculture and still can't kick the habit... or even reduce it. My step sister said she watched Earthlings in school, and "feels bad" but still eats meat. The rationale? She doesn't cook (her mom or my dad does) so she doesn't control what to eat. I tried getting her a cookbook, but honestly, if someone seems like they give up before they even try, they just don't want to. At least not for the time being, anyway! But I think eating plant-based is becoming more and more popular every day, so you'll probably see some converts in your family at some point! If not fully converted, then at least they'll understand.