Author Topic: Go Whole Food Plant-Based (WFPD) Diet in 2018  (Read 21192 times)

nessness

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #100 on: February 02, 2018, 09:38:15 AM »
Thanks @DanTheYogi , I'll try to get to it this weekend.

DanTheYogi

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #101 on: February 02, 2018, 09:48:52 AM »
Thanks @DanTheYogi , I'll try to get to it this weekend.

Right on!  I will also add, that while it may seem long, and the video looks a little bland/boring when you first start, I personally find the speaker (Jeff Novick) incredibly entertaining and humorous.  He also does a great job of appealing to lay persons with no scientific background whatsoever through easy to understand, common sense explanations.  Perhaps I am just weird, but I often lose track of time when watching his presentations and am a little said when I realize they are over.  lol

imadandylion

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #102 on: February 02, 2018, 01:43:36 PM »

Hmmm, this wasn't what I took from your post, but no worries then!  I do stand by my assertion that there is no reason to supplement vitamin D unless you have discussed it with a medical professional and established a clear medical deficiency, as well as weighed the pros and cons of supplementation.


No problem.  I can understand the confusion because I didn't explicitly write either way in my original post, but that's what was in my head, and I tend to be really short about what I say.  For Vitamin D, yes, I respect your advice and agree Ė it's optional in that one needs to educate oneself and gather qualitative information about if they personally need it or not. Personally, I'm glad I did supplement with it (1000 IU once daily since becoming vegan, if anyone is curious) because I reasoned I don't get out much, and pretty much always cover up or wear sunscreen on my face, ruining any chance of any Vitamin D gains. (Office job setting and staying in constantly to 'side hustle,' as they say, doesn't help.)  As it turns out, I actually do have a deficiency.


Milk:  Ugh.

I feel like I have no proof, but I believe there is strong evidence of hormones and definitely a high amount of sugar in cow's milk. I was fed a lot of cow's milk and even still consumed it sometimes as a teenager. I had the worst acne out of everyone in my family growing up and didn't eat really junk-y or anything, since meals were almost always homemade and we didn't live on typical American cuisine. I thought it was just genetic, but all my siblings grew up elsewhere (not the U.S.) and weren't fed cow's milk or grew up under the influence of needing it to be a healthy, happy child... and their skin is amazing by comparison. My skin cleared up and looks better than it's ever been since quitting dairy. Can't even imagine the consequences of anything internally.  For any other nutritional benefits you are seeking, I'm sure you can find them from another readily available source.  (I have no genuine nutritional background, this is just my two cents.)

DanTheYogi

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #103 on: February 04, 2018, 09:39:24 AM »
A little late, but here is the pancake picture I promised.  :)

Not sure if I am imbedding the image correctly so let's see what happens.

EDIT:  Can't figure out how to imbed the image properly, so I'll just post a link to imgur.

https://imgur.com/a/RKS26
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 09:43:26 AM by DanTheYogi »

Serendip

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #104 on: February 04, 2018, 10:44:02 AM »
Had a really interesting discussion with a sports med MD who I met through a friend (we were all going on a mini ski-trip together).
She was flummoxed since she didn't know what to prepare (food-wise) for the 2 vegan-ish ladies on the trip...she said she actually had to ask at the grocery store exactly what that meant.

Fascinating.

Most people in my social circle are on board with reducing animal products so it was very interesting to chat with her about this. She was open, but not super interested on a personal level. But I think it was great to introduce her to some tasty meals and have non-judgemental conversations about why people are choosing this lifestyle.

e34bb098

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #105 on: February 04, 2018, 01:41:04 PM »
Posting to follow and offer advice. Iíve been vegan for 18 years so Iíve seen a lot of changes. The good news is that itís easier to be vegan now than ever before. Unfortunately thereís a lot of vegan junk food out there too, so you can be an unhealthy vegan and subsist on soy ice cream or whatever.

Anyway, good job to all the people who made it through January. Any questions, ask away.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #106 on: February 05, 2018, 07:39:39 AM »
Milk:  Ugh.

I feel like I have no proof, but I believe there is strong evidence of hormones and definitely a high amount of sugar in cow's milk. I was fed a lot of cow's milk and even still consumed it sometimes as a teenager. I had the worst acne out of everyone in my family growing up and didn't eat really junk-y or anything, since meals were almost always homemade and we didn't live on typical American cuisine. I thought it was just genetic, but all my siblings grew up elsewhere (not the U.S.) and weren't fed cow's milk or grew up under the influence of needing it to be a healthy, happy child... and their skin is amazing by comparison. My skin cleared up and looks better than it's ever been since quitting dairy. Can't even imagine the consequences of anything internally.  For any other nutritional benefits you are seeking, I'm sure you can find them from another readily available source.  (I have no genuine nutritional background, this is just my two cents.)

I had horrendous acne as an adolescent - TWO rounds of accutane actually made it WORSE - and well into adulthood.

Went plant-based at age 26 and skin has cleared up significantly.  It's not "perfect" but I no longer need weekly injections for cysts.  I'm guessing skin will continue to clear as I "detox" from dairy but we'll see.

cobbb11

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #107 on: February 14, 2018, 08:36:29 AM »
Amazing thread! So nice to see it 3 pages in and not degraded to a vegan vs meat eater brawl.

I'm still kind of shocked that MMM, with his "against the grain" lifestyle and critical thinking to nearly everything he does, hasn't gone vegan yet, or at least given it a shot.

I've been vegan over 2 years now, and the biggest game changers are the Vitamix blender and the Instant Pot. With the blender, you keep frozen bananas on hand at all times. Just by a crap ton and either eat them fresh when they're ripe or freeze them if you start falling behind and they are on the verge of going bad. Throw in some strawberries, kale/spinach, chia/flax/hemp seeds, peanut butter (or PB powder), almond milk, and you've got a cheaper, healthier smoothie than anything you can get at smoothie king. It's also a great coffee replacement, although I still drink coffee for fun with Silk caramel almond creamer.

The Instant Pot is the bean prep master. Just toss in dried beans, cover with water, about 30-40 minutes plus the depressurize time and you are golden. No more canned beans.

I also enjoy stir frys in the Wok, hummus is the best dip ever (making your own is super easy, plenty of youtube recipes), and best of all you are living healthier and victim-free.

If you ever need a treat I would suggest ben and jerrys and breyer's dairy-free ice cream, the various mock-meat stuff from Gardein, Oreos (if you're in the US, I think European oreos aren't vegan), "Just Mayo" mayonnaise, and dates (the fruit) taste so damn sweet (because they're like 99% pure sugar) they might as well be Snickers bars.

The protein myth is so ridiculous. No one that eats enough calories to subsist on is protein deficient. I take a B12 pill every couple of days (which is due to our sanitation methods and not veganism, since farm animals have to be supplemented with B12 in their feed, which is the only reason why meat eaters get it), eat your fruits/veg/legumes/grains, get some exercise (bike/run/lift weights) and you're good to go.

Yankuba

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #108 on: February 14, 2018, 09:11:37 AM »
Amazing thread! So nice to see it 3 pages in and not degraded to a vegan vs meat eater brawl.

I'm still kind of shocked that MMM, with his "against the grain" lifestyle and critical thinking to nearly everything he does, hasn't gone vegan yet, or at least given it a shot.

I've been vegan over 2 years now, and the biggest game changers are the Vitamix blender and the Instant Pot. With the blender, you keep frozen bananas on hand at all times. Just by a crap ton and either eat them fresh when they're ripe or freeze them if you start falling behind and they are on the verge of going bad. Throw in some strawberries, kale/spinach, chia/flax/hemp seeds, peanut butter (or PB powder), almond milk, and you've got a cheaper, healthier smoothie than anything you can get at smoothie king. It's also a great coffee replacement, although I still drink coffee for fun with Silk caramel almond creamer.

The Instant Pot is the bean prep master. Just toss in dried beans, cover with water, about 30-40 minutes plus the depressurize time and you are golden. No more canned beans.

I also enjoy stir frys in the Wok, hummus is the best dip ever (making your own is super easy, plenty of youtube recipes), and best of all you are living healthier and victim-free.

If you ever need a treat I would suggest ben and jerrys and breyer's dairy-free ice cream, the various mock-meat stuff from Gardein, Oreos (if you're in the US, I think European oreos aren't vegan), "Just Mayo" mayonnaise, and dates (the fruit) taste so damn sweet (because they're like 99% pure sugar) they might as well be Snickers bars.

The protein myth is so ridiculous. No one that eats enough calories to subsist on is protein deficient. I take a B12 pill every couple of days (which is due to our sanitation methods and not veganism, since farm animals have to be supplemented with B12 in their feed, which is the only reason why meat eaters get it), eat your fruits/veg/legumes/grains, get some exercise (bike/run/lift weights) and you're good to go.

I also love Gardein mock meats.

I was pescatarian from 2009 until last year (ethical and environmental reasons) but I'm trying to get back on the wagon (ethical, environmental and health reasons). I'm following Dr. Greger's vegan site (https://nutritionfacts.org) for tips on what to eat. My wife and kids are omnivores.

My gut tells me that a plant based diet should be healthier than a diet based on animal products but I've been reading about the good results people have been having on the zero carb diets (meat and eggs and cheese all day) and am a bit confused on what to eat.

FWIW, I'm trying to lower LDLs and don't have any issues with weight, blood pressure or diabetes.

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #109 on: February 14, 2018, 09:12:17 AM »
Amazing thread! So nice to see it 3 pages in and not degraded to a vegan vs meat eater brawl.

I'm still kind of shocked that MMM, with his "against the grain" lifestyle and critical thinking to nearly everything he does, hasn't gone vegan yet, or at least given it a shot.

I've been vegan over 2 years now, and the biggest game changers are the Vitamix blender and the Instant Pot. With the blender, you keep frozen bananas on hand at all times. Just by a crap ton and either eat them fresh when they're ripe or freeze them if you start falling behind and they are on the verge of going bad. Throw in some strawberries, kale/spinach, chia/flax/hemp seeds, peanut butter (or PB powder), almond milk, and you've got a cheaper, healthier smoothie than anything you can get at smoothie king. It's also a great coffee replacement, although I still drink coffee for fun with Silk caramel almond creamer.

The Instant Pot is the bean prep master. Just toss in dried beans, cover with water, about 30-40 minutes plus the depressurize time and you are golden. No more canned beans.

I also enjoy stir frys in the Wok, hummus is the best dip ever (making your own is super easy, plenty of youtube recipes), and best of all you are living healthier and victim-free.

If you ever need a treat I would suggest ben and jerrys and breyer's dairy-free ice cream, the various mock-meat stuff from Gardein, Oreos (if you're in the US, I think European oreos aren't vegan), "Just Mayo" mayonnaise, and dates (the fruit) taste so damn sweet (because they're like 99% pure sugar) they might as well be Snickers bars.

The protein myth is so ridiculous. No one that eats enough calories to subsist on is protein deficient. I take a B12 pill every couple of days (which is due to our sanitation methods and not veganism, since farm animals have to be supplemented with B12 in their feed, which is the only reason why meat eaters get it), eat your fruits/veg/legumes/grains, get some exercise (bike/run/lift weights) and you're good to go.

Hey cobbb11 - welcome!  Yeah - I'm surprised by many environmentally-minded people like MMM who even identify meat eating as unsustainable, and yet continue eating meat!  Take Nate Hagens for example. That guy studies our imminent collapse due to unsustainable fossil fuel and resource usage, quantifies it, proposes all these solutions, and he still eats 'spa beef'.  Does not bode well for my son's future when the guy who sees what coming continues taking part in accelerating toward collapse.

Yeah it's cool we haven't gotten in a shouting match over carnist bingo. 




As I'm developing my vegan legs (I'm about 9 months plant based, 5 1/2 months vegan), I'm learning how to navigate vegan conversations in a carnist world. Mostly people are curious, but holy shit, my Bernie Sanders fanatic friend from HS about lost his mind one night out drinking when he overheard me chatting freely with another plant based diet person.

You know - when you talk with someone who has researched a lot of the same material as you, you can let yourself get excited discussing the details rather than navigating landmines of carnist resistance. So my HS buddy overhears us and just explodes about how we're pussies and humans are meant to eat meat and incisors, and well, all the shit in that bingo card. I love the guy, so it was easy enough to divert him into plotting a totally unrelated prank on his roomate and he quickly forgot the vegan convo.  Since then, we've PMed a bit and he's asked a few questions. We'll see.  Anyway, it's a long winded way of saying that I know the conversation can get heated and non-productive really quick.  But this is a special forum.  There are a few trolls in the political threads, but for the most part, people are measured, or at least properly label their rants.

Quote
hummus is the best dip ever (making your own is super easy, plenty of youtube recipes), and best of all you are living healthier and victim-free.

^^ couldn't agree more.

Congrats on 2 years. That's great!  So how did you come into becoming vegan?  Story please !

cobbb11

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #110 on: February 14, 2018, 10:24:13 AM »
Amazing thread! So nice to see it 3 pages in and not degraded to a vegan vs meat eater brawl.

I'm still kind of shocked that MMM, with his "against the grain" lifestyle and critical thinking to nearly everything he does, hasn't gone vegan yet, or at least given it a shot.

I've been vegan over 2 years now, and the biggest game changers are the Vitamix blender and the Instant Pot. With the blender, you keep frozen bananas on hand at all times. Just by a crap ton and either eat them fresh when they're ripe or freeze them if you start falling behind and they are on the verge of going bad. Throw in some strawberries, kale/spinach, chia/flax/hemp seeds, peanut butter (or PB powder), almond milk, and you've got a cheaper, healthier smoothie than anything you can get at smoothie king. It's also a great coffee replacement, although I still drink coffee for fun with Silk caramel almond creamer.

The Instant Pot is the bean prep master. Just toss in dried beans, cover with water, about 30-40 minutes plus the depressurize time and you are golden. No more canned beans.

I also enjoy stir frys in the Wok, hummus is the best dip ever (making your own is super easy, plenty of youtube recipes), and best of all you are living healthier and victim-free.

If you ever need a treat I would suggest ben and jerrys and breyer's dairy-free ice cream, the various mock-meat stuff from Gardein, Oreos (if you're in the US, I think European oreos aren't vegan), "Just Mayo" mayonnaise, and dates (the fruit) taste so damn sweet (because they're like 99% pure sugar) they might as well be Snickers bars.

The protein myth is so ridiculous. No one that eats enough calories to subsist on is protein deficient. I take a B12 pill every couple of days (which is due to our sanitation methods and not veganism, since farm animals have to be supplemented with B12 in their feed, which is the only reason why meat eaters get it), eat your fruits/veg/legumes/grains, get some exercise (bike/run/lift weights) and you're good to go.

Hey cobbb11 - welcome!  Yeah - I'm surprised by many environmentally-minded people like MMM who even identify meat eating as unsustainable, and yet continue eating meat!  Take Nate Hagens for example. That guy studies our imminent collapse due to unsustainable fossil fuel and resource usage, quantifies it, proposes all these solutions, and he still eats 'spa beef'.  Does not bode well for my son's future when the guy who sees what coming continues taking part in accelerating toward collapse.

Yeah it's cool we haven't gotten in a shouting match over carnist bingo. 




As I'm developing my vegan legs (I'm about 9 months plant based, 5 1/2 months vegan), I'm learning how to navigate vegan conversations in a carnist world. Mostly people are curious, but holy shit, my Bernie Sanders fanatic friend from HS about lost his mind one night out drinking when he overheard me chatting freely with another plant based diet person.

You know - when you talk with someone who has researched a lot of the same material as you, you can let yourself get excited discussing the details rather than navigating landmines of carnist resistance. So my HS buddy overhears us and just explodes about how we're pussies and humans are meant to eat meat and incisors, and well, all the shit in that bingo card. I love the guy, so it was easy enough to divert him into plotting a totally unrelated prank on his roomate and he quickly forgot the vegan convo.  Since then, we've PMed a bit and he's asked a few questions. We'll see.  Anyway, it's a long winded way of saying that I know the conversation can get heated and non-productive really quick.  But this is a special forum.  There are a few trolls in the political threads, but for the most part, people are measured, or at least properly label their rants.

Quote
hummus is the best dip ever (making your own is super easy, plenty of youtube recipes), and best of all you are living healthier and victim-free.

^^ couldn't agree more.

Congrats on 2 years. That's great!  So how did you come into becoming vegan?  Story please !



Carnist bingo! Love it! I'm stealing it!

Yea I've been on a couple other threads regarding veganism here and one in particular was a total nightmare. Some guy named Maizeman I think. Just couldn't talk logic with him, which of course ends up frustrating me and I'm sure I ended up sounding like a raving lunatic, but whatever.

The incredible thing is so many meat-eaters try to talk about the virtues of it like I've never eaten meat before. It is THEY who have never tried OUR lifestyle. Finding a vegan from birth is like finding a unicorn.

I was just pursuing, as I normally do, one day in January of 2016, and came across that infamous Gary Yourofsky speech (Titled "Best speech you will ever hear" on Youtube), and the Q&A video he did after that lecture. After watching and being completely honest with myself, I realized he makes irrefutable points, I've been a hypocrite my whole life claiming to like animals and detaching myself with how meat gets to my plate, and I had to at least try. So I finished up the rest of the animal products I had in the house (being a bachelor at the time, my fridge/pantry were usually pretty sparsely filled anyway), and went vegan cold turkey after that (pun intended). It was supposed to just be 2 weeks, and that is pretty much what I'm still doing: just a 2 week experiment going past 2 years that I never found a good reason to quit. I dropped 30 pounds by the summer of that first year, no other changes besides the diet at the time. I was never obese, but at 5'11 and 230, I was a bit more sluggish than I used to be. I was 192 last year, but then I got a girlfriend and the struggle is real. Luckily she's slowly going full vegan, but she found ways to make vegan brownies and stuff so I'm 206 as of this morning. Training for my first 10K in 3 weeks so that will be fun.

The interesting thing is that it SO easy to topple the vegan argument. Just name me ONE nutrient we need that we exclusively get from animals. Even if we could synthesize it in a plant-based supplement form, there is nothing special about meat/dairy. B12 is from bacteria, we used to get it from well water and unwashed vegetables.

Don't forget veganism also excludes leather, wool, etc as well. It's not just the diet. So whatever stuff I currently have is "grandfathered" in, but I haven't found any issues finding synthetic replacements. I happen to be a gun enthusiast and found the nylon gun belts work better than leather, for example. It's just a matter of doing a bit more research into things that we didn't do pre-veganism, and to me, it's worth the extra effort to save innocent beings.

Serendip

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #111 on: February 14, 2018, 04:51:55 PM »
Just went for a lovely Valentines Day lunch of creamy vegan ramen with fried brussel sprouts.
So flipping tasty.


Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #112 on: February 15, 2018, 10:46:12 AM »
Carnist bingo! Love it! I'm stealing it!

Yea I've been on a couple other threads regarding veganism here and one in particular was a total nightmare. Some guy named Maizeman I think. Just couldn't talk logic with him, which of course ends up frustrating me and I'm sure I ended up sounding like a raving lunatic, but whatever.

The incredible thing is so many meat-eaters try to talk about the virtues of it like I've never eaten meat before. It is THEY who have never tried OUR lifestyle. Finding a vegan from birth is like finding a unicorn.

I was just pursuing, as I normally do, one day in January of 2016, and came across that infamous Gary Yourofsky speech (Titled "Best speech you will ever hear" on Youtube), and the Q&A video he did after that lecture. After watching and being completely honest with myself, I realized he makes irrefutable points, I've been a hypocrite my whole life claiming to like animals and detaching myself with how meat gets to my plate, and I had to at least try. So I finished up the rest of the animal products I had in the house (being a bachelor at the time, my fridge/pantry were usually pretty sparsely filled anyway), and went vegan cold turkey after that (pun intended). It was supposed to just be 2 weeks, and that is pretty much what I'm still doing: just a 2 week experiment going past 2 years that I never found a good reason to quit. I dropped 30 pounds by the summer of that first year, no other changes besides the diet at the time. I was never obese, but at 5'11 and 230, I was a bit more sluggish than I used to be. I was 192 last year, but then I got a girlfriend and the struggle is real. Luckily she's slowly going full vegan, but she found ways to make vegan brownies and stuff so I'm 206 as of this morning. Training for my first 10K in 3 weeks so that will be fun.

The interesting thing is that it SO easy to topple the vegan argument. Just name me ONE nutrient we need that we exclusively get from animals. Even if we could synthesize it in a plant-based supplement form, there is nothing special about meat/dairy. B12 is from bacteria, we used to get it from well water and unwashed vegetables.

Don't forget veganism also excludes leather, wool, etc as well. It's not just the diet. So whatever stuff I currently have is "grandfathered" in, but I haven't found any issues finding synthetic replacements. I happen to be a gun enthusiast and found the nylon gun belts work better than leather, for example. It's just a matter of doing a bit more research into things that we didn't do pre-veganism, and to me, it's worth the extra effort to save innocent beings.

Yeah - that Gary Yourofsky video is powerful. I was already pretty well down the path when I watched it. Also James Aspey's 'most inspiring speech ...' is quite powerful too.  I also like Earthling Ed because he uses the socratic method to get people thinking about their own beliefs. He asks questions like, "should culture and tradition dictated ethics?" 

As for clothing.  I've still been wearing some old shoes that TBH I love and they have really stiff soles so they protect my janky toe.  But my husband has been pestering me to get vegan shoes. Finally this last weekend I went out and bought a pair of Chuck Taylors - exactly like I used to wear in high school. 

I just learned about the practice of mulesing with sheep.  Ugh.  Capitalism. So powerful and awesome in so many ways, but often, when we're only focused on increasing profits, it can turn ugly. It just takes one group of a-holes to decide they don't GAF about the sheep - to only see them as a commodity, and you get these inhumane practices. Yep - not wiling to be a part of it.


DanTheYogi

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #113 on: February 16, 2018, 08:20:17 AM »
Amazing thread! So nice to see it 3 pages in and not degraded to a vegan vs meat eater brawl.

I'm still kind of shocked that MMM, with his "against the grain" lifestyle and critical thinking to nearly everything he does, hasn't gone vegan yet, or at least given it a shot.

I've been vegan over 2 years now, and the biggest game changers are the Vitamix blender and the Instant Pot. With the blender, you keep frozen bananas on hand at all times. Just by a crap ton and either eat them fresh when they're ripe or freeze them if you start falling behind and they are on the verge of going bad. Throw in some strawberries, kale/spinach, chia/flax/hemp seeds, peanut butter (or PB powder), almond milk, and you've got a cheaper, healthier smoothie than anything you can get at smoothie king. It's also a great coffee replacement, although I still drink coffee for fun with Silk caramel almond creamer.

The Instant Pot is the bean prep master. Just toss in dried beans, cover with water, about 30-40 minutes plus the depressurize time and you are golden. No more canned beans.

I also enjoy stir frys in the Wok, hummus is the best dip ever (making your own is super easy, plenty of youtube recipes), and best of all you are living healthier and victim-free.

If you ever need a treat I would suggest ben and jerrys and breyer's dairy-free ice cream, the various mock-meat stuff from Gardein, Oreos (if you're in the US, I think European oreos aren't vegan), "Just Mayo" mayonnaise, and dates (the fruit) taste so damn sweet (because they're like 99% pure sugar) they might as well be Snickers bars.

The protein myth is so ridiculous. No one that eats enough calories to subsist on is protein deficient. I take a B12 pill every couple of days (which is due to our sanitation methods and not veganism, since farm animals have to be supplemented with B12 in their feed, which is the only reason why meat eaters get it), eat your fruits/veg/legumes/grains, get some exercise (bike/run/lift weights) and you're good to go.

I also love Gardein mock meats.

I was pescatarian from 2009 until last year (ethical and environmental reasons) but I'm trying to get back on the wagon (ethical, environmental and health reasons). I'm following Dr. Greger's vegan site (https://nutritionfacts.org) for tips on what to eat. My wife and kids are omnivores.

My gut tells me that a plant based diet should be healthier than a diet based on animal products but I've been reading about the good results people have been having on the zero carb diets (meat and eggs and cheese all day) and am a bit confused on what to eat.

FWIW, I'm trying to lower LDLs and don't have any issues with weight, blood pressure or diabetes.

Hi Yankuba


In regards to your confusion, maybe I can help put some things into perspective for you.

First, I'm going to post a quote from RD Jeff Novick from a separate forum.  He is talking about fruit juice/juice fasting, but it applies to other "fad" diets as well, such as zero-carb (which he points out):

Quote
Yes, we all have heard these success stories related to juicing. So, lets put that in proper perspective.


1) The fact that people may use juicing and get better does not in anyway make juicing healthy. People get better on many diets and programs, short-term. If you head on over to the Paleo crowd, or the Atkins crowd, or the Zone crowd, or the MED diet crowd, etc etc, you will hear the same proclamations. Yet, I would not recommend any of these programs. I have even showed you a well done, published, peer-reviewed study where one of the diets was 47% white sugar, yet the DB subjects, lost weight, lowered their cholesterol, LDL, blood sugars and insulin all very quickly but I would not recommend that either.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6854&p=48020&h#p48020

There is more to this than just some short-term "results" but also putting it all into proper perspective and understanding the how and why about what is happening. Juicing is a highly processed food, even if you make it at home. Of course, juice is much better than the SAD and anyone who moves from the SAD to a healthier diet, especially if it is a whole foods plant based diet, which includes juices will do better. However, there is a reason why not one of the clinical programs that have published evidence over the last 60 years on a lower fat, minimally processed, lo/no SOS diet diet used liquid calories, juices or smoothies as a main part of the program. And, if any did use any, it was nothing more than an occasional condiment or flavoring or occasional treat or in rare and limited special instances (i.e. prune juice for constipation)

To make the point, you would now have to show that the same lower fat, minimally processed, lo/no SOS diet with juices is superior to the same lower fat, minimally processed, lo/no SOS diet without juices. Never been done, nor will it. On the other hand, we have over 60 years of clinical experience where for many people, we have to remove juices to get them to fully recover. The only exception to this is with the therapeutic initiation phase of the rice diet, where he was working with extremely ill people, on a very low calorie diet with extremely limited food and calorie options and was just trying to get a few extra calories in them.

https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=26106&p=495831#p495831


Is it really any surprise, that anyone who goes from eating a SAD diet (highly processed flour, processed meat, sugar, excess fat, saturated fat, sodium, no fresh/whole foods, etc.), to being more conscious about what they eat, sees short term improvements?

Even in these people who are eating nothing but animal products, the most likely "benefit" they are seeing is that:

1) They are usually cutting out processed food.

2) As a result of such large amounts of restriction, their calories naturally go down, and they lose weight.

3) They may be implementing other life-style changes at the same time that could also be playing a factor.

We know from countless studies that regardless of what you eat, if you lose weight, there is a good chance your bio-markers will improve (having said this, I have read about/spoken with many people who lost weight doing one of the low carb iterations but actually had their bio-markers worsen).

Personally, I am not interested in these short term results.  I want to know, what diet is going to be best for my short-term and long-term health?  What is happening to all these people doing low-carb/paleo 5, 10, 15 years down the line?  I am not interested in anecdotes either; otherwise, the uncle who lives until 99 smoking 2 packs a day and eating eggs and bacon is good justification to adapt those lifestyle habits.  :)

This is why it's important to stick to peer-reviewed evidence.  Otherwise, I could go online and find somebody who has found positive results with any diet.  Shoot, I don't have the reference on hand, but I know there was a university professor who went on a twinkies-only diet for a month just to prove that you can lose weight as long as you restrict calories (which he did).

Having said all that, I have not seen any well-done studies that put low-carb diets in a positive light long-term when you actually put the studies into proper perspective.  Certainly there are plenty of studies out there that might "appear" to make certain diets look good.  But this is usually the result of a study that was either poorly done or was intentionally set-up in some way to achieve certain results.

On the other hand, there are numerous studies on plant-based diets with long term follow-ups going out to 5, 10, 15+ years (I know of one with a 50 year follow up).  While I am not saying this evidence is perfect, it is the best we got.  Until I see results similar to the results that Ornish, Esselstyn, McDougall, Barnard, etc. have gotten, it is no contest.  When you combine this evidence with everything we have learned from epidemiological studies, it starts to become pretty overwhelming, IMO.

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #114 on: February 16, 2018, 10:56:34 AM »
Here's a few more websites for folks looking for recipe ideas:

https://chocolatecoveredkatie.com/ If you have a sweet tooth and don't plan to give it up, she has some great recipes! Also a decent amount that require no oil (I try not to use it when I cook) or can sub it with nut butter. My absolute favorite that I've made several dozen times is her blondies... the secret ingredient is chickpeas (no flour at all!) but no one that I've fed them to has ever guessed. My (non-vegan) friends request them often. https://chocolatecoveredkatie.com/2011/05/18/chocolate-chip-blondies-and-theyre-good-for-you/

http://thevegan8.com/ Also a favorite for both quality and simplicity (8 ingredients or less). This week I made her "cheesy mexican tortilla bake" and it turned out delicious (and it was easy)! I just finished the leftovers tonight and I found myself wishing there were more. http://thevegan8.com/2017/06/26/vegan-cheesy-mexican-tortilla-bake/

Thank you so much for turning me on to Katie!!! I have made 4 batches of her chocolate blender muffins, and the whole family loves them.  We all eat them every day.  Sweets were something holding me back because I didn't want to make anything with "weird" ingredients.  I already had everything to make these, and luckily they were fantastic.  I want to make other recipes of hers, but so far I've only gotten requests to repeat the chocolate muffins!

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #115 on: February 16, 2018, 11:39:53 AM »
Here's a few more websites for folks looking for recipe ideas:

https://chocolatecoveredkatie.com/ If you have a sweet tooth and don't plan to give it up, she has some great recipes! Also a decent amount that require no oil (I try not to use it when I cook) or can sub it with nut butter. My absolute favorite that I've made several dozen times is her blondies... the secret ingredient is chickpeas (no flour at all!) but no one that I've fed them to has ever guessed. My (non-vegan) friends request them often. https://chocolatecoveredkatie.com/2011/05/18/chocolate-chip-blondies-and-theyre-good-for-you/

http://thevegan8.com/ Also a favorite for both quality and simplicity (8 ingredients or less). This week I made her "cheesy mexican tortilla bake" and it turned out delicious (and it was easy)! I just finished the leftovers tonight and I found myself wishing there were more. http://thevegan8.com/2017/06/26/vegan-cheesy-mexican-tortilla-bake/

Thank you so much for turning me on to Katie!!! I have made 4 batches of her chocolate blender muffins, and the whole family loves them.  We all eat them every day.  Sweets were something holding me back because I didn't want to make anything with "weird" ingredients.  I already had everything to make these, and luckily they were fantastic.  I want to make other recipes of hers, but so far I've only gotten requests to repeat the chocolate muffins!

I'm so glad you're happy with her recipes! :-) Makes my day. And now I'm off to check out her chocolate blender muffins, because I've been craving muffins and they must be healthier than the vegan donuts I've been wanting (to buy at the shop, again!).

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #116 on: February 27, 2018, 09:10:47 AM »
Hirondelle made it to Verona, where I live, and we had vegan pizza. :) 

I keep seeing the keto & low-carb 'throw down the gauntlet' thread pop up and occasionally I peek in and I just don't get it.

This whole 'all carbs are bad' thing is out of hand. Also - unless you're modeling your keto regimen after the inuit, I don't think you would be eating such a high percentage of meat, and you certainly wouldn't be consuming dairy. At least that's my understanding based off of various readings of history.


Serendip

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2018, 09:32:16 AM »
Hirondelle made it to Verona, where I live, and we had vegan pizza. :) 

I keep seeing the keto & low-carb 'throw down the gauntlet' thread pop up and occasionally I peek in and I just don't get it.

This whole 'all carbs are bad' thing is out of hand. Also - unless you're modeling your keto regimen after the inuit, I don't think you would be eating such a high percentage of meat, and you certainly wouldn't be consuming dairy. At least that's my understanding based off of various readings of history.



There is a lot of conflicting information out there.
 
I recently listened to this podcast which addresses some of the clashing perspectives between whole food/plant-base & keto/high meat viewpoints.

 Of course, everyone has to come to their own conclusion and live the life that feels right for them.. but for me,   the Blue Zone studies of longevity are good indicators that high plant based diets are a key to long & healthy lives, regardless of short-term effects of Keto..can also do plant-based keto/intermittent fasting for similar weight-loss results (which they address toward the end of the podcast)


http://www.richroll.com/podcast/joel-kahn-349/   (have to skip 10-12 minutes in to jump over the ad portion!)

SachaFiscal

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2018, 09:38:08 AM »
Are we keeping this up for February and March?  I had dairy three times in February (desserts and mac and cheese) but was otherwise vegan.  I'm cooking pretty much the same thing for my husband and I every week and we feel pretty satisfied.

Mon/Wed lunch and dinner: Vegan Enchilada Casserole - https://www.thissavoryvegan.com/vegan-enchilada-casserole-jalapeno-cream-sauce/
Tue/Thu lunch and dinner: Indian veggie and potato stir fry, Indian lentil soup (sambar) with greens, and a mix of brown and white rice.
Friday lunch and dinner: Vegan bean and tofu chili and mashed potatoes (with soy milk no butter).
Saturday: Veggie burgers and salad for lunch. Pasta and sauce with greens, mushrooms, onions and veggie ground soy meat or seitan and steamed broccoli for dinner.
Sunday: Leftover chili for lunch. Tofu banh mi sandwiches (from a local Vietnamese restaurant) for dinner.

Also we sporadically add a side salad to lunch or dinner several times during the week.  This with a nut-based salad dressing like Cashew Mustard or Walnut Balsamic.

It's nice eating the same stuff each week, because it makes grocery shopping and cooking a no-brainer. So we'll keep doing it unless we get bored of something then we'll switch it up.

I'm going on vacation for a week in March so I might end up eating some dairy or eggs if I go out with friends or if my family cooks it but hopefully I'll be able to avoid it.




Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2018, 09:56:34 AM »
Are we keeping this up for February and March?  I had dairy three times in February (desserts and mac and cheese) but was otherwise vegan.  I'm cooking pretty much the same thing for my husband and I every week and we feel pretty satisfied.

Mon/Wed lunch and dinner: Vegan Enchilada Casserole - https://www.thissavoryvegan.com/vegan-enchilada-casserole-jalapeno-cream-sauce/
Tue/Thu lunch and dinner: Indian veggie and potato stir fry, Indian lentil soup (sambar) with greens, and a mix of brown and white rice.
Friday lunch and dinner: Vegan bean and tofu chili and mashed potatoes (with soy milk no butter).
Saturday: Veggie burgers and salad for lunch. Pasta and sauce with greens, mushrooms, onions and veggie ground soy meat or seitan and steamed broccoli for dinner.
Sunday: Leftover chili for lunch. Tofu banh mi sandwiches (from a local Vietnamese restaurant) for dinner.

Also we sporadically add a side salad to lunch or dinner several times during the week.  This with a nut-based salad dressing like Cashew Mustard or Walnut Balsamic.

It's nice eating the same stuff each week, because it makes grocery shopping and cooking a no-brainer. So we'll keep doing it unless we get bored of something then we'll switch it up.

I'm going on vacation for a week in March so I might end up eating some dairy or eggs if I go out with friends or if my family cooks it but hopefully I'll be able to avoid it.

thanks for the link to the enchilada casserole. I'm tiring of our same-old recipes and I think I'll try this in our rotation. Thanks.

Yeah - I'll start a march thread. I suppose I could change the title of this thread to "Go Plant-Based (Vegan) in January 2018", and we could keep it up for the year. What do you think?  That - or start a new thread?

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #120 on: February 27, 2018, 10:10:26 AM »
Okay - I've altered the title and made this thread for all year - all 2018.

Tell me if you have a strong preference to start a new thread instead. Otherwise, let's carry on with this one!

I saw this live video stream from Earthling Ed this morning. I shared it on my FB feed for a few hours - while the majority of my US based FB network slept.  After a few hours, I changed the visibility to 'Only Me'. I know people don't like to see this stuff.  But I think people need to see this stuff.

But - a few months ago - I made the decision to not try and 'show the truth' to my close friends and family.  The reason is this: if I show, say, my brother, everything that has me convinced to protest the industrial animal ag system, and he sees it, understands it,  feels it, and then goes on eating meat and diary from the grocery store, well, I'd be devastated.  And I don't want to put myself through that.

So,instead, I'll volunteer at the cube of truth in bologna in March, and head to Berlin Alexanderplatz for the huge Cube of Truth June 23.  I'll continue to sponsor Earthling Ed on Patreon, and look for other ways to show people what's really going on.

Here's the Earthling Ed video if you're interested. Keep in mind the pigs are babies really.  They typically go to slaughter between 12 and 18 months of age.  :(

I didn't start out really caring much about the animals and their suffering. But the more time I've abstained from eating animal products, the more I find myself caring.  It's not that I object to eating meat per se. It's this system of cruelty and environmental destruction that I oppose.

Anyhoo - if y'all would rather start a new thread, I'm down with that. But I think continuing with this one works too.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 11:46:07 AM by Malaysia41 »

Candace

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #121 on: February 27, 2018, 10:42:47 AM »
Hirondelle made it to Verona, where I live, and we had vegan pizza. :) 

I keep seeing the keto & low-carb 'throw down the gauntlet' thread pop up and occasionally I peek in and I just don't get it.

This whole 'all carbs are bad' thing is out of hand. Also - unless you're modeling your keto regimen after the inuit, I don't think you would be eating such a high percentage of meat, and you certainly wouldn't be consuming dairy. At least that's my understanding based off of various readings of history.



There is a lot of conflicting information out there.
 
I recently listened to this podcast which addresses some of the clashing perspectives between whole food/plant-base & keto/high meat viewpoints.

 Of course, everyone has to come to their own conclusion and live the life that feels right for them.. but for me,   the Blue Zone studies of longevity are good indicators that high plant based diets are a key to long & healthy lives, regardless of short-term effects of Keto..can also do plant-based keto/intermittent fasting for similar weight-loss results (which they address toward the end of the podcast)


http://www.richroll.com/podcast/joel-kahn-349/   (have to skip 10-12 minutes in to jump over the ad portion!)
Thanks for the podcast. I'll check it out. I'm personally experiencing this conflict, since I would love to be plant-based for ethical reasons but only feel satisfied with a high-protein-high-fat diet. This week I've made a vegan bean salad and a vegan soup with broccoli and tofu. Tomorrow I will make vegan whole-wheat fermented sourdough bread. All of these are delicious and nutritious. But while trying to maintain or lose weight, I find that unless I eat most of my calories in protein and fat I feel hungry and unsatisfied. And there's only so many meals I want to have free-range eggs as my main food. So it's a constant fight for me.

Hirondelle

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #122 on: February 27, 2018, 11:09:08 AM »
Hirondelle made it to Verona, where I live, and we had vegan pizza. :) 


That pizza was soooo good :)

I'd prefer to keep up this thread. There's already a ton of information in here that'd be lost or has to be reposted if we'd move.

Despite the vegan pizza in Verona most days in Italy I managed to eat vegetarian but not vegan. Upon getting home I bought a ton of veggies so this week I should be good eating (almost - ate cookies/cake at work) vegan. I did realize I haven't bought eggs in a long time and that used to be one of the few animal products I'd actually struggle with to not consume.

Yankuba

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #123 on: February 27, 2018, 02:12:31 PM »
Hirondelle made it to Verona, where I live, and we had vegan pizza. :) 

I keep seeing the keto & low-carb 'throw down the gauntlet' thread pop up and occasionally I peek in and I just don't get it.

This whole 'all carbs are bad' thing is out of hand. Also - unless you're modeling your keto regimen after the inuit, I don't think you would be eating such a high percentage of meat, and you certainly wouldn't be consuming dairy. At least that's my understanding based off of various readings of history.



There is a lot of conflicting information out there.
 
I recently listened to this podcast which addresses some of the clashing perspectives between whole food/plant-base & keto/high meat viewpoints.

 Of course, everyone has to come to their own conclusion and live the life that feels right for them.. but for me,   the Blue Zone studies of longevity are good indicators that high plant based diets are a key to long & healthy lives, regardless of short-term effects of Keto..can also do plant-based keto/intermittent fasting for similar weight-loss results (which they address toward the end of the podcast)


http://www.richroll.com/podcast/joel-kahn-349/   (have to skip 10-12 minutes in to jump over the ad portion!)

Thanks for sharing the podcast. I'm trying to get serious about my health (I'm almost 40) and have been confused with diet. My gut tells me Dr. Greger, Dr. Furman and the plant based people are right, but there are doctors and scientists who promote the zero carb, high animal product diet.

I listened to the first hour of the podcast and took notes. the guest was Dr. Joel Kahn, a vegan cardiologist:

All foods have protein, fat and carbs

Zero carb diets have been shown to age the body (bad). You may lose weight and gain energy but you increase mortality.

People in Okinawa are 90% plant based and are considered some of the healthiest people on earth

Animal products (beef, chicken, fish, dairy) age you. They contain Lucien (bad).

One patient of the guest cardiologist went zero carb and his cholesterol went from 250 to 750.

Keto has been shown to be beneficial for epileptic people

Virta Health is making noise - it promotes a Keto diet and claims the diet can reverse type II diabetes. Dr. Kahn said their data is junk science - a 10 week study printed in a bad journal. Dr. Kahn said the main 6 or 7 big health studies that covered 100,000s of people show low carb, high fat diets increase mortality.

Dr. Kahn doesn't recommend the keto diet and there isn't a keto death rate study yet.

Dr. Kahn recommended the Longevity Diet by Dr. Longo.

Increased protein consumption leads to increased mortality. Protein becomes more important when we age - bad to be frail and old (more fractures and pneumonia).

The American diet - everything in moderation - is dangerous. Animal products are dangerous.

It is a myth that sugar causes diabetes. Excess calories which leads to weight gain causes diabetes.

Refined sugar is bad. Fruit sugar is fine. May want to limit fruits to three per day. Fruit doesn't cause diabetes.

If you're going to cheat on your diet, cheat with desserts (sugar) and not fats, oils, dairy

Heart disease is still the #1 killer in USA (#2 in Canada). Cancer is #2 in USA and #1 in Canada.

This part is scary:

Some seemingly healthy people drop dead of heart attacks when young. Many have high Lipo Protein A (LPA/sticky cholesterol). This isn't checked on your routine lipid blood test when you get a physical. 20% of Americans have high Lipo Protein A. It's genetic and can't be reduced by diet. Niacin helps. It's not a bad idea to ask your doctor for a LPA blood test - it's only $25.

Additionally, Dr. Kahn recommends everyone over 40 to get a prescription and go to the local hospital for a heart cat scan to get a calcium score that measures hardening of the arteries. People can have high cholesterol numbers but low calcium scores and vice versa. High calcium scores are another scary silent killer.

There are about 19 things that can lead to heart disease - Lipo Protein A, cholesterol, high blood pressure, smoking, diabetes, excess weight, genetics, age, smoking, etc. The cat scan mentioned above cuts to the chase.

Ironically, ultra endurance exercise can make hardening of the arteries worse.

I will post the second half of the podcast later on....

EDIT:

30 minutes to go, but here is what else I picked up:

Ultra endurance exercise (marathons) may be worse than moderate exercise or even no exercise at all

10 minutes of exercise is better than 0 minutes of exercise

Heart and blood metrics post marathon aren't good but they may snap back in 24 hours.

It is false and dangerous to say that consuming saturated fats is okay and consuming saturated fats do not impact cholesterol levels. Dr. Kahn wants everyone to limit saturated fats - including olive oil. Saturated fats are associated with hardening of the arteries and heart disease. This has been known since the 1950s - early studies that cardiology patients who cut saturated fats did better than those that didn't.

Since 2014 it has been confirmed that butter and lard are bad (again)

It's hard to find pure food scientists who do not receive funding from food companies/industries

Completely remove coconut and palm oil from your diet

They chatted about this movie called "What the Health" - it is recommended

Processed meats (pepperoni, salami, sausage, hot dogs) increase risk of getting colon cancer.

If you're going to eat a "bad food" (e.g. hamburger) eat it with "antidotes" (leafy greens, avocado).

A bunch of stuff on fasting that I didn't really pay attention to

I will post the rest tomorrow!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 02:58:43 PM by Yankuba »

DarkandStormy

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #124 on: February 27, 2018, 03:02:23 PM »
Keto is garbage, imo.  It has only been proven to help with short-term weight loss (every diet does, basically) and epileptic seizure reduction.  Other than, over the long term it's not any better than any diet.

It was ranked among the lowest in all categories except short term weight loss by US News & World Report back in January.

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #125 on: February 27, 2018, 04:20:52 PM »
Although I'm a long-time ethical vegan, I'm not convinced that a vegan diet is that much healthier than any other.  The reason is that we are descended from millions of years of what are basically primate garbage disposals.  Any of our ancestors whose systems freaked out if they ate some slightly non-optimal food would've been eliminated from the gene pool a long time ago.  Our bodies will tolerate and thrive on a lot of different things, and I think this is evidenced by the existence of such a wide variety of allegedly-best diets: if there was one diet that was clearly and definitively better than all others, then the others would have fallen by the wayside.

The basics of health and nutrition are well known and not especially complicated, despite the popular breathless media narratives about nutritionists constantly changing their minds about everything:  Get most of your calories from a wide variety of fresh fruits and vegetables.  If you eat anything else, do it in moderation.  Get lots of low-level physical activity.

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #126 on: February 27, 2018, 04:44:10 PM »
we have been doing "mostly" whole foods plant based for about 4 months.  We do eat meat when we go out with other people.  My joint pain is gone.  My husband's plantar fasciitis hasn't bothered him.  His blood work has gone from prediabetic to normal.  My cholesterol has gone from 225 to 190.  I plan to stick with it for the most part.  We do cheat, but we are eating way healthier than we were before.

rpr

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #127 on: February 27, 2018, 05:09:55 PM »
Posting to follow. Almost vegan. Trying to get my partner to quit cheese, eggs. Any recommendations for

-- cheese substitutes. Did not like Daiya.
-- best plant substitute that comes close to cow's milk. I've tried soy and almond but no success yet with the taste. 

Thanks.

e34bb098

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #128 on: February 27, 2018, 06:29:48 PM »
-- cheese substitutes. Did not like Daiya.

Hard to recommend, because cheese is a very versatile food.  A vegan version that is good on pizza will not be good spread on crackers.  I've heard good things about Teese but haven't tried it (I am happy enough with Daiya so I don't branch out much).  For gourmet cheeses, Miyoko's is really good but pricey.  If you really like cheese, you will probably not be happy with anything currently out there if you need an exact substitute.  If you can be happy with something that is not cheese, but fits the basic flavor profile of "creamy plus tangy" then you'll have better luck.

Quote
-- best plant substitute that comes close to cow's milk. I've tried soy and almond but no success yet with the taste. 

Oat and hemp are good.

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #129 on: February 27, 2018, 11:00:49 PM »
Posting to follow. Almost vegan. Trying to get my partner to quit cheese, eggs. Any recommendations for

-- cheese substitutes. Did not like Daiya.
-- best plant substitute that comes close to cow's milk. I've tried soy and almond but no success yet with the taste. 

Thanks.

My parents watched 'Forks over Knives' with me. While my mom resisted most of the conclusions, she was willing to switch up her milk and coffee creamer to plant based ones.  ( I think she was more open to replacing the milks because i'd mentioned it a few times to her before she watched the movie - everything else like the ideas of giving up meat and eggs seemed to offend her).

I had her do a taste test for her creamer.  Here she is: FUD 4 - Mom tries Plant Based Creamers in Blind Taste Test

Since choosing ripple (it's pea protein), she and dad have swapped their milk for ripple too. They love it.




Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #130 on: February 27, 2018, 11:53:37 PM »
@Yankuba - thanks for that write up!

You may also enjoy the Rick Roll podcast with Dr. Garth Davis. Similar depth and message. He's quick to point out areas where studies are insufficient for him to make health claims like 'don't eat eggs', but he goes into a lot of detail about various meats and dairy products. He also describes his personal journey studying nutrition - it's really interesting.


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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #131 on: February 28, 2018, 12:23:48 AM »
Thanks for the summary Yankuba! I think I want to listen back to get into more detail about some of the points you've pointed out. Does he go into more detail (eg mention studies) when talking about cheat with sugars instead of oils? That's an interesting point to me and I'd be curious to learn more about it.

I've never understood the rave about keto diets. I get the point of low carb and know many people that do well on it, but as extreme as keto? Keto has been developed for epilepsy patients, not for overweight people. It's not a natural state of your body to be in and isn't healthy long term. Paleo does make sense to me as long as it's done right. Many people see it as an excuse to eat tons of meat while to me the main message is "WFPB + some meat/fish, no processed foods".

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #132 on: February 28, 2018, 06:06:06 AM »
Posting to follow. Almost vegan. Trying to get my partner to quit cheese, eggs. Any recommendations for

-- cheese substitutes. Did not like Daiya.
-- best plant substitute that comes close to cow's milk. I've tried soy and almond but no success yet with the taste. 

Thanks.

Miyoko's Creamery has some delicious "cheeses", things like English smoked farmhouse and Mt Vesuvius Black Ash, more artisanal than basic shredded. Good vegan "cheese" is hard to find. Agree with Malaysia that ripple might be closer to cows milk than the others, but you'll definitely still notice a difference.

I've been vegan for about 5 years now, after reading things like Eat to Live, The Blue Zones, and The China Study. Family history of heart disease/high cholesterol, my numbers are now fine on plant-based diet, and feel so much better.

My biggest challenge is simply eating enough and maintaining weight, doing more nuts, seeds, avocados.

Great thread!

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #133 on: February 28, 2018, 06:35:57 AM »
Thanks for the summary Yankuba! I think I want to listen back to get into more detail about some of the points you've pointed out. Does he go into more detail (eg mention studies) when talking about cheat with sugars instead of oils? That's an interesting point to me and I'd be curious to learn more about it.

I've never understood the rave about keto diets. I get the point of low carb and know many people that do well on it, but as extreme as keto? Keto has been developed for epilepsy patients, not for overweight people. It's not a natural state of your body to be in and isn't healthy long term. Paleo does make sense to me as long as it's done right. Many people see it as an excuse to eat tons of meat while to me the main message is "WFPB + some meat/fish, no processed foods".

I donít believe he mentioned any studies re: refined sugars.

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #134 on: February 28, 2018, 06:37:19 AM »
-- best plant substitute that comes close to cow's milk. I've tried soy and almond but no success yet with the taste. 

Thanks.
I think cashew milk tastes the closest to cow's milk.

Yankuba

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in January 2018
« Reply #135 on: February 28, 2018, 08:17:03 AM »
Hirondelle made it to Verona, where I live, and we had vegan pizza. :) 

I keep seeing the keto & low-carb 'throw down the gauntlet' thread pop up and occasionally I peek in and I just don't get it.

This whole 'all carbs are bad' thing is out of hand. Also - unless you're modeling your keto regimen after the inuit, I don't think you would be eating such a high percentage of meat, and you certainly wouldn't be consuming dairy. At least that's my understanding based off of various readings of history.



There is a lot of conflicting information out there.
 
I recently listened to this podcast which addresses some of the clashing perspectives between whole food/plant-base & keto/high meat viewpoints.

 Of course, everyone has to come to their own conclusion and live the life that feels right for them.. but for me,   the Blue Zone studies of longevity are good indicators that high plant based diets are a key to long & healthy lives, regardless of short-term effects of Keto..can also do plant-based keto/intermittent fasting for similar weight-loss results (which they address toward the end of the podcast)


http://www.richroll.com/podcast/joel-kahn-349/   (have to skip 10-12 minutes in to jump over the ad portion!)

Thanks for sharing the podcast. I'm trying to get serious about my health (I'm almost 40) and have been confused with diet. My gut tells me Dr. Greger, Dr. Furman and the plant based people are right, but there are doctors and scientists who promote the zero carb, high animal product diet.

I listened to the first hour of the podcast and took notes. the guest was Dr. Joel Kahn, a vegan cardiologist:

All foods have protein, fat and carbs

Zero carb diets have been shown to age the body (bad). You may lose weight and gain energy but you increase mortality.

People in Okinawa are 90% plant based and are considered some of the healthiest people on earth

Animal products (beef, chicken, fish, dairy) age you. They contain Lucien (bad).

One patient of the guest cardiologist went zero carb and his cholesterol went from 250 to 750.

Keto has been shown to be beneficial for epileptic people

Virta Health is making noise - it promotes a Keto diet and claims the diet can reverse type II diabetes. Dr. Kahn said their data is junk science - a 10 week study printed in a bad journal. Dr. Kahn said the main 6 or 7 big health studies that covered 100,000s of people show low carb, high fat diets increase mortality.

Dr. Kahn doesn't recommend the keto diet and there isn't a keto death rate study yet.

Dr. Kahn recommended the Longevity Diet by Dr. Longo.

Increased protein consumption leads to increased mortality. Protein becomes more important when we age - bad to be frail and old (more fractures and pneumonia).

The American diet - everything in moderation - is dangerous. Animal products are dangerous.

It is a myth that sugar causes diabetes. Excess calories which leads to weight gain causes diabetes.

Refined sugar is bad. Fruit sugar is fine. May want to limit fruits to three per day. Fruit doesn't cause diabetes.

If you're going to cheat on your diet, cheat with desserts (sugar) and not fats, oils, dairy

Heart disease is still the #1 killer in USA (#2 in Canada). Cancer is #2 in USA and #1 in Canada.

This part is scary:

Some seemingly healthy people drop dead of heart attacks when young. Many have high Lipo Protein A (LPA/sticky cholesterol). This isn't checked on your routine lipid blood test when you get a physical. 20% of Americans have high Lipo Protein A. It's genetic and can't be reduced by diet. Niacin helps. It's not a bad idea to ask your doctor for a LPA blood test - it's only $25.

Additionally, Dr. Kahn recommends everyone over 40 to get a prescription and go to the local hospital for a heart cat scan to get a calcium score that measures hardening of the arteries. People can have high cholesterol numbers but low calcium scores and vice versa. High calcium scores are another scary silent killer.

There are about 19 things that can lead to heart disease - Lipo Protein A, cholesterol, high blood pressure, smoking, diabetes, excess weight, genetics, age, smoking, etc. The cat scan mentioned above cuts to the chase.

Ironically, ultra endurance exercise can make hardening of the arteries worse.

I will post the second half of the podcast later on....

EDIT:

30 minutes to go, but here is what else I picked up:

Ultra endurance exercise (marathons) may be worse than moderate exercise or even no exercise at all

10 minutes of exercise is better than 0 minutes of exercise

Heart and blood metrics post marathon aren't good but they may snap back in 24 hours.

It is false and dangerous to say that consuming saturated fats is okay and consuming saturated fats do not impact cholesterol levels. Dr. Kahn wants everyone to limit saturated fats - including olive oil. Saturated fats are associated with hardening of the arteries and heart disease. This has been known since the 1950s - early studies that cardiology patients who cut saturated fats did better than those that didn't.

Since 2014 it has been confirmed that butter and lard are bad (again)

It's hard to find pure food scientists who do not receive funding from food companies/industries

Completely remove coconut and palm oil from your diet

They chatted about this movie called "What the Health" - it is recommended

Processed meats (pepperoni, salami, sausage, hot dogs) increase risk of getting colon cancer.

If you're going to eat a "bad food" (e.g. hamburger) eat it with "antidotes" (leafy greens, avocado).

A bunch of stuff on fasting that I didn't really pay attention to

I will post the rest tomorrow!

The end of the podcast:

Not every vegan has perfect lab numbers, blood pressure or weight, so there is more work to be done. One hack that has been showing good results is fasting a few days a month, cutting calories and limiting food intake to certain windows during the day.

The body can heal itself on a plant based diet.

Malcolm Gladwell hates plant based diets.

The host and cardiologist feel we passed the tipping point and plant based diets are now mainstream. Medical students are starting to come around. Food companies are starting to come around. Dr. Kahn spoke to a group of medical school students and half the class was vegetarian or vegan.

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #136 on: February 28, 2018, 11:44:31 AM »
Thank you everyone for all of the suggestions for the milk. I will look to see if I can find Ripple locally. And the video taste test was great. These have to go in an Indian Chai.

I also saw that Daiya had changed its formulation. So maybe I will try it again.

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #137 on: March 03, 2018, 01:40:39 AM »
@Hirondelle - here's a video where the doctor discusses studies linking cow milk consumption to type 1 diabetes among other diseases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT5IczyhFGQ

Here's a screenshot of the study he discusses:


Drole

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #138 on: March 03, 2018, 05:11:00 AM »
I've been PlantBased for about 5 weeks now.  Full disclosure: I do have 2 exceptions.  1) bone broth: because I have a bunch and haven't been good about collecting scraps for veg broth.  2) whey protein: because I have 3-4 containers to use up

That said, on week three I got a little indulgent with the nuts.  Basically I skipped lunch, got darn hungry and ate a lot of trail mix (pecan based) for two days at lunch.  After the second day, I reacted....got super itchy back at night.  So no nuts for about a week.  I then had coconut curry one night for dinner, no issues.  The next day had some PB....and now itchy back for 1.5 days now. 

So I'm wondering if anyone has any insights.  On a non-PlantBased diet, I have eaten a LOT of Peanut Butter in a single day.  I heart me nut butters.  But trying to poke around online, it seems like perhaps my amino acids might be unbalanced now....arginine appears to cause issues in some people. 

Advice?  Suggestions?  Sources of info to read?

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #139 on: March 03, 2018, 11:04:32 AM »
I didn't start out really caring much about the animals and their suffering. But the more time I've abstained from eating animal products, the more I find myself caring.  It's not that I object to eating meat per se. It's this system of cruelty and environmental destruction that I oppose.

Same here! Also I think the 2018 thread works great :)
 
@Yankuba thanks! I love Rich Roll's podcasts but I don't always keep up with them because they are so long. Great for longer drives though.

@Drole it's hard to imagine you would have some sort of imbalance after 5 weeks, but admittedly I have not researched your specific issue. I eat plenty of peanut butter, I just only buy the peanuts + salt kind. Regardless, I hope you get it sorted out and don't continue to have issues! I have heard sometime allergies can randomly show up in adulthood.

I have decided to do a no (added) sugar March. I was hitting the vegan sweets too hard... (purchased not homemade). I could just do a no store bought dessert challenge but I think it will be good for my body to have a little sugar detox. Not eliminating fruit of course. Would like to get back to super WFPB which I mostly am but am not doing as well as I'd like every week... still too much take out/processed vegan stuff. The no added sugar thing will be one step in the right direction without taking on too much of an overwhelming goal, I think. Maybe in April I will reintroduce sugar for homemade desserts only and focus on another aspect of WFPB eating.

This morning I had raw banana tacos for breakfast. A banana on top of a few layers of romaine leaves, slathered with almond butter and topped with some dates, walnuts, and pumpkin seeds. It wasn't bad but also not amazing (I also don't love almond butter like I love peanut butter). However, I felt good after eating it. :)

I suck at meal planning. Mostly it's laziness. Any tips?

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #140 on: March 04, 2018, 01:16:24 PM »
I've been PlantBased for about 5 weeks now.  Full disclosure: I do have 2 exceptions.  1) bone broth: because I have a bunch and haven't been good about collecting scraps for veg broth.  2) whey protein: because I have 3-4 containers to use up

That said, on week three I got a little indulgent with the nuts.  Basically I skipped lunch, got darn hungry and ate a lot of trail mix (pecan based) for two days at lunch.  After the second day, I reacted....got super itchy back at night.  So no nuts for about a week.  I then had coconut curry one night for dinner, no issues.  The next day had some PB....and now itchy back for 1.5 days now. 

So I'm wondering if anyone has any insights.  On a non-PlantBased diet, I have eaten a LOT of Peanut Butter in a single day.  I heart me nut butters.  But trying to poke around online, it seems like perhaps my amino acids might be unbalanced now....arginine appears to cause issues in some people. 

Advice?  Suggestions?  Sources of info to read?

When I eat nuts - esp hazelnuts with the brown skin bit on it - my throat gets super itchy.  Then i ease up off nuts, and then a week later eat some hazelnuts and don't feel a thing. Allergies are weird.

My husband gets super itchy forearms when he eats chocolate, bananas or too much sugar. Not that this has to do with nuts but our bodies seem to freak out in unique ways.

Sorry I don't have any sources or insights - just empathy. 

I've become quite bigoted against cow's milk - so I fully acknowledge the following question is based on having read studies here and there about weird reactions to cow's milk proteins and other substances: do you think the whey powder might have something to do with your reactions?  Maybe you're loading up on it too much in an effort to get rid of it?

DanTheYogi

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #141 on: March 04, 2018, 06:13:21 PM »
I've been PlantBased for about 5 weeks now.  Full disclosure: I do have 2 exceptions.  1) bone broth: because I have a bunch and haven't been good about collecting scraps for veg broth.  2) whey protein: because I have 3-4 containers to use up

That said, on week three I got a little indulgent with the nuts.  Basically I skipped lunch, got darn hungry and ate a lot of trail mix (pecan based) for two days at lunch.  After the second day, I reacted....got super itchy back at night.  So no nuts for about a week.  I then had coconut curry one night for dinner, no issues.  The next day had some PB....and now itchy back for 1.5 days now. 

So I'm wondering if anyone has any insights.  On a non-PlantBased diet, I have eaten a LOT of Peanut Butter in a single day.  I heart me nut butters.  But trying to poke around online, it seems like perhaps my amino acids might be unbalanced now....arginine appears to cause issues in some people. 

Advice?  Suggestions?  Sources of info to read?


Hi Drole.

I was able to eliminate an autoimmune disorder (IBS) through a strenuous elimination diet.  It took me over 8 months, but I'm finally at a point where I know exactly how and what I can eat and have 0 intestinal issues.

An elimination diet is the most extreme/last resort way of resolving issues like this.  However, for someone such as yourself, I would start off with eliminating common allergens:  all animal products (no whey/bone broth), nuts/seeds, and chocolate.  If that doesn't work, eliminate wheat, corn, citrus fruits, and tomatoes (these are very common allergens too).

If the problem still persists, then you would need to move on to a more comprehensive elimination diet.  I will say, it isn't easy an easy process; the only reason I followed through was because I was so motivated by the immense pain and discomfort.

Of course, this isn't a "forever" thing.  It's a 2 step process.  The easy part is honestly the elimination, IMO.  Your goal is to find a baseline of foods that don't cause you any issues at all.  Once you have that, you add foods back, 1 at a time, over a few days span, and see if your body reacts.  If it doesn't, great, test another food.  If it does, you know that food is an issue; at this point you are supposed to wait a week to give your body time to completely eliminate the problem food before testing a new food.  You can see how this would take a long time; I have heard of some people with very serious autoimmune issues taking multiple years to work through an elimination diet.  However, it is extremely effective when used correctly; most all autoimmune disorders and allergies can be eliminated.  Incidentally, I eliminated my life long "seasonal allergies" and saw my anxiety issues plummet after implementing the elimination diet.  Unexpected, but certainly not unwelcome.  :)

You can read more here:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/health-science/common-health-problems/allergic-reactions-to-food/

In regards to the amino acids:  I have never heard of anything about amino acid balance causing health issues of any sort, and I know of no good evidence to support such a notion.  Our bodies have a circulating supply of amino acids that are re-used regularly.  The majority of the amino acids our bodies use are simply recycled supplies; we do not require much from our diets.  Our protein requirements are very low, and any excess is eliminated via the kidneys.  Of course, there is some good evidence that excessive consumption of certain amino acids like methionine are strongly correlated with chronic disease and all-cause mortality, so it's a good idea to keep protein low regardless.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 06:15:55 PM by DanTheYogi »

Drole

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #142 on: March 06, 2018, 05:27:11 AM »
Thanks for the input.  The part that just really confuses me is I haven't added any new foods that I wasn't eating before going vegan.  I ate nuts, used the whey/bone broth, etc. and no issues.  I suppose it could be an adult onset allergy.

I'll go back to tracking what I am eating and maybe start the elimination diet cleanse though we have some travels coming up and I'm not sure if I'll have enough control over food prep/etc. 

Of the top 6 to start eliminating: dairy products, eggs, chocolate, nuts, shellfish, and fish; I've mostly eliminated chocolate already bc it keeps me awake...no fish, shellfish or eggs.  Leaving just the whey and nuts. 

In group 2: wheat, corn, citrus fruits, tomatoes, and strawberries....we're already gluten free, and none of the others play a major role in my diet.

Now the idea of eating a lot of nuts 3x a day to test this in elimination is just making me itch thinking about it since I think they are the culprit.  And having to test each type of nut...... but I really like nuts and want them back!



@DanTheYogi: "Of course, there is some good evidence that excessive consumption of certain amino acids like methionine are strongly correlated with chronic disease and all-cause mortality, so it's a good idea to keep protein low regardless." 

When I was exploring the amino acids, I came across something like this (http://aminoacidstudies.org/l-methionine/) stating that methionine helps/gets used up with allergies.  I haven't researched it any further but had been meaning to check nutritional profiles of it in different animal and non-animal sources of food.  This was part of my thinking on amino being out of whack.

Drole

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #143 on: March 06, 2018, 10:00:50 AM »
ooooohhh....hold the bus, I thought of something that might be the culprit!  I'll test and follow up....would be most awesome if this is the problem and I can go back to my nut habit.

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #144 on: March 06, 2018, 10:04:15 AM »
ooooohhh....hold the bus, I thought of something that might be the culprit!  I'll test and follow up....would be most awesome if this is the problem and I can go back to my nut habit.

A cliffhanger???  No hint as to what to expect in next weeks episode of

>>>   'Drole and the mysterious rash'?

Malaysia41

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #145 on: March 07, 2018, 03:29:32 AM »
Why do I torture myself popping into the low keto low carb challenge thread?

This time though was odd.  Comments like,
Quote
"I continue to not really lose weight, but Iím probably losing body fat %. Iím fine with that :)"

Quote
"HDL-C and LDL-C was kinda high, those numbers are mostly useless though without more info"

Sorry - this feels gossipy - but it's probably better me posting here rather than posting in their thread and coming off like a troll. I hope you all don't mind.

March 1st was my 6 month vegan anniversary - :).

DanTheYogi

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #146 on: March 07, 2018, 07:18:40 AM »
Why do I torture myself popping into the low keto low carb challenge thread?

This time though was odd.  Comments like,
Quote
"I continue to not really lose weight, but Iím probably losing body fat %. Iím fine with that :)"

Quote
"HDL-C and LDL-C was kinda high, those numbers are mostly useless though without more info"

Sorry - this feels gossipy - but it's probably better me posting here rather than posting in their thread and coming off like a troll. I hope you all don't mind.

March 1st was my 6 month vegan anniversary - :).

Congratulations!

I know exactly where you are coming from.  When I first found out about this WOE (way of eating), via a Dr. Greger talk, my first thought was "why haven't I heard of this before??"  Then I figured that everyone I knew would be excited to learn that the maladies of "aging" actually have nothing to due with aging, and can be prevented, stopped, or even reversed completely through some simple lifestyle changes.  Of course, as soon as I started raving about it to my coworkers, I was met with heavy resistance and the usual comebacks and excuses that we all know and expect.  It didn't take me long to realize that people simply don't want to hear bad news about their bad habits.

It's funny.  I am sure all of you are much more mustachian than me at this point, so you probably have had similar experiences as me, only with money instead of food.  Noticing coworkers that coworkers who complain about money also drive expensive vehicles and eat out every single day.  This is exactly how I feel with food - coworkers (and family members) complaining about health problems and poor bio-markers while simultaneously stuffing their face with copious amounts of animal products and processed CRAP.

It's one in the same to me.  I see so many similarities.  Eating animal products and processed foods is like consumerism - it is so ingrained in our society that it is like water to a fish.  Most people don't even realize it is there or that there is an alternative.

Nowadays I am pretty reserved despite my passion.  If I can tell someone has a very genuine interest and wants to learn, I can talk about food and lifestyle medicine all day.  Otherwise I just keep my mouth shut.  To each their own.

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #147 on: March 07, 2018, 08:03:54 AM »
Why do I torture myself popping into the low keto low carb challenge thread?

This time though was odd.  Comments like,
Quote
"I continue to not really lose weight, but Iím probably losing body fat %. Iím fine with that :)"

Quote
"HDL-C and LDL-C was kinda high, those numbers are mostly useless though without more info"

Sorry - this feels gossipy - but it's probably better me posting here rather than posting in their thread and coming off like a troll. I hope you all don't mind.

March 1st was my 6 month vegan anniversary - :).

Congratulations!

I know exactly where you are coming from.  When I first found out about this WOE (way of eating), via a Dr. Greger talk, my first thought was "why haven't I heard of this before??"  Then I figured that everyone I knew would be excited to learn that the maladies of "aging" actually have nothing to due with aging, and can be prevented, stopped, or even reversed completely through some simple lifestyle changes.  Of course, as soon as I started raving about it to my coworkers, I was met with heavy resistance and the usual comebacks and excuses that we all know and expect.  It didn't take me long to realize that people simply don't want to hear bad news about their bad habits.

It's funny.  I am sure all of you are much more mustachian than me at this point, so you probably have had similar experiences as me, only with money instead of food.  Noticing coworkers that coworkers who complain about money also drive expensive vehicles and eat out every single day.  This is exactly how I feel with food - coworkers (and family members) complaining about health problems and poor bio-markers while simultaneously stuffing their face with copious amounts of animal products and processed CRAP.

It's one in the same to me.  I see so many similarities.  Eating animal products and processed foods is like consumerism - it is so ingrained in our society that it is like water to a fish.  Most people don't even realize it is there or that there is an alternative.

Nowadays I am pretty reserved despite my passion.  If I can tell someone has a very genuine interest and wants to learn, I can talk about food and lifestyle medicine all day.  Otherwise I just keep my mouth shut.  To each their own.

I think this is, just like for the mustachianism aspect, a matter of how many "levels" someone is above or below you. To someone who eats meat and/or dairy at every meal and considers it a main (and healthy) aspect of their diet, going vegan sounds insane. Just like their level of meat and dairy consumption sounds insane to you.

I feel like that's where a lot of vegans "lose" to gain interest from the meat-fanatic public (not meant to anyone in this thread btw, more aiming at let's say a regular FB comment section). However, raising awareness and making small changes is possible. From a health viewpoint there's a very strong evidence that red and processed meat increases the risk for colon cancer. Asking people to just reduce their red meat consumption is usually possible. If you come from an environmental viewpoint, you could argue that eating chicken is more environmentally friendly compared to beef. Again this is a replacement that people might be willing to make.

Telling a meat/dairy fanatic to go vegan is just a too-big step for most, but a lot of them are willing to make smaller changes in their diet if this can improve their health or environmental impact.

Eg. my parents are meat and dairy fanatics. However, they've reduced the amounts of meat they put on their bread (this saves probably 150 grams of meat a week among 3 people, but hey it's a start). They've also reduced the size of their meat balls and switched from cow's yogurt to soy yogurt. They might not be willing to go vegetarian/vegan (heck, even I still didn't pull the trigger and willingly eat the meat/fish they serve me once a month), but they ARE willing to make changes to improve their health or reduce their impact on the environment.

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #148 on: March 07, 2018, 09:36:05 AM »

It's hard not resist the urge to tell everyone how amazing mustacianism and vegetarian/veganism is, but most people just really don't want to hear it. I let small bits slide in, but for the most part keeps things to myself. Most people know that I'm big into personal finance and am vegetarian, so I just let my happiness and my health speak for itself.


Agreed, I think this is totally key @AerynLee
If I see someone who is vibrant and excited about life it makes me want to know what they know (emotional/financial/lifestyle health included)

 I like the thought that we are all doing the best we can with the knowledge we currently have
 (and personally think mustachianism & plant-based diets go together beautifully but to each their own :) )

monstermonster

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Re: Go Plant-Based (Vegan) Diet in 2018
« Reply #149 on: March 07, 2018, 11:51:23 AM »
Hey, I just saw this gauntlet, and I don't need to join, but I thought I could be a good resource. Been vegan for 21 years, former competitive athlete and former vegetarian cook by profession. So happy to be a resource if you have questions about subs/nutrition/traveling etc. Just @ me and I will come!