Author Topic: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread  (Read 40290 times)

Sailor Sam

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #150 on: December 08, 2022, 08:52:37 AM »
I had a PT appointment today. I wrestled one of the PT’s down, and asked them to monitor an exercise and explain. It went fine, but it didn’t magically change anything. Benign neglect reigns.

Can you find a new PT? It took DH several tries. We specifically avoided some of the chain places with names like "Spine Zone." Even their websites were sleazy.

I'm not actually sure if Tricare would allow me to change providers, once the pre-authorized visits have been started.

In the spirit of honestly, I'm probably not going to try and find out. I've got surgery (for an unrelated thing) in 3 weeks, and that is going to take up most of my excitement and attention well into Feb.

Once I've been cleared for physical activity by the surgeon, I can revisit the hip issue.

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #151 on: December 08, 2022, 09:26:15 AM »
How is everyone doing today?

I am still slacking, mostly.  But I am doing a few exercises everyday, like when waiting for the dog to do what he needs to do, or just while microwaving something.  Better than nothing, but I do need to make a more concerted efforts to do most, if not all exercises and stretches at least 5 times a week.

dandarc

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #152 on: December 08, 2022, 09:35:33 AM »
I overslept, then stayed in bed an hour before actually getting up, then took a shower so long my back started hurting, and did not do my exercises before finally heading to work today. Very unlikely I will later today either. PT appointment bright and early tomorrow, so an opportunity to get back on the horse.

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #153 on: December 08, 2022, 10:21:21 AM »
I overslept, then stayed in bed an hour before actually getting up, then took a shower so long my back started hurting, and did not do my exercises before finally heading to work today. Very unlikely I will later today either. PT appointment bright and early tomorrow, so an opportunity to get back on the horse.

Like others have mentioned, unless I do my PT in the morning, it’s much less likely to be done at all.

FrugalShrew

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #154 on: December 08, 2022, 10:27:03 AM »
I slept poorly, but I still managed to do 30 minutes of PT with 15 minutes of exercises and 15 minutes of stretches. Thanks for the check-in, @G-dog!

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #155 on: December 08, 2022, 10:28:57 AM »
I slept poorly, but I still managed to do 30 minutes of PT with 15 minutes of exercises and 15 minutes of stretches. Thanks for the check-in, @G-dog!

Excellent @FrugalShrew.  Way to go!


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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #156 on: December 08, 2022, 11:37:23 AM »
I am mostly on track despite feeling really down.  This morning I did the relaxation / breathing exercise and a totally half-assed morning stretch.  I have PT appointment in two hours so I decided to skip the strengthening exercises, as I am just floating along slightly above going back to bed. 

Serendip

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #157 on: December 08, 2022, 07:33:57 PM »
I feel like I every few years, I become someone I wouldn't have recognized in the past.

I have fallen in love with breathwork. Eegads.

As someone who had asthmatic episodes as a teen and panic attacks in my 20's, practices which altered breathing patterns stressed me right now and I refused to do them.

For some reason, this last year I've started doing micro-pranayama sessions and it is really interesting how I've started craving it.
:)

mspym

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #158 on: December 08, 2022, 09:22:16 PM »
I did some yoga this morning and it was just what I needed.

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #159 on: December 09, 2022, 10:23:44 AM »
Had a PT appointment today. I still have minimal ability to keep my knees tracking correctly, but the combination of focus and exercises is keeping the sharp pains to a minimum. Everything is feeling very doable. The PT asked to see me again in 2-3 weeks to give me time to settle into the exercises and increase loading on the weighted squats.

Does anyone else lift barefoot/in socks?

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #160 on: December 09, 2022, 10:26:39 AM »
Had a PT appointment today. I still have minimal ability to keep my knees tracking correctly, but the combination of focus and exercises is keeping the sharp pains to a minimum. Everything is feeling very doable. The PT asked to see me again in 2-3 weeks to give me time to settle into the exercises and increase loading on the weighted squats.

Does anyone else lift barefoot/in socks?

I lift w/without footwear.  Just depends on where I am and how much weight.

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #161 on: December 09, 2022, 10:28:36 AM »
Good job everyone.  Let’s finish the week with a bang.  Can we get everyone to do at least some of their PT today and / tomoorow?

I am doing some of mine right now.  And I vacuumed yesterday so it’s a more pleasant prospect to do the floor exercises.

Dicey

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #162 on: December 09, 2022, 11:02:23 AM »
Appointment made! I got the same PT that DH had after his foot surgery. We both really liked her. Woo-hoo!

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #163 on: December 09, 2022, 11:36:18 AM »
Appointment made! I got the same PT that DH had after his foot surgery. We both really liked her. Woo-hoo!

Great! Sometimes making the first appointment is the hardest part.

philli14

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #164 on: December 09, 2022, 11:56:51 AM »
I knew office work was bad for me, but what a dramatic illustration.
Sitting at a desk in an office chair is basically the devil, as far as my body is concerned :-/  All pain all the time.

R'amen!

Sorry about your migraine. I can see how it might be difficult to build a PT (or other) habit when the repetition gets interrupted randomly by a higher priority health/self care situation.

@Malcat that sounds like magic, the good kind. Will you come to my house and custom design a workstation for me? 😉 Any tips for best using a sit stand desk?* I also fight against military neck. Imagine it must be ubiquitous in the developed world, with our high usage of phones and other screens.

* @philli14 is that something you can comment on?

Absolutely - the majority of patients with headache, neck pain and upper back pain that I work with have a job or lifestyle that includes prolonged sitting.

Ergonomically optimized or not, as humans it's not likely that we're designed or optimized for inertia. An "ideal posture" is something that is (rightfully) being less and less focused on, as our tissues are designed for movement, and require dynamic, multidirectional stress in order to function properly. Same goes for hormonal processes and cardiovascular function.

How best to mitigate the effects of inertia, accepting that some of us are in jobs that necessitate it?

1. Behavioral modifications - dynamic movements throughout the work day, breaking up periods of inertia as often as is feasible. Look to your PT for movements that may be specific to your impairments, and don't aggravate symptoms.
2. Work out hard and heavy when you're not - theres some evidence for "simple" aerobic exercise being able to mitigate many of the negative effects from prolonged sitting. My bias is also towards heavy resistance strengthening - this may or may not be appropriate for you if you are already in pain, but that should always be the final goal, and is a good strategy for reducing the likelihood of future pain.
3. Change postures when possible - whether thats working from standing vs. sitting, switching mouse position, changing monitor height, etc. Variation tends to be helpful.
4. Don't neglect the other things you know are good for you - eating well, sleeping. I prioritize sleep hygiene with all of my patients, regardless of what they're coming in for. If you want to know more, read "Why we Sleep" by Matthew Walker.
5. Be as ergonomic as possible - ergonomic modifications will reduce the repetitive load/strain on X tissue, but there will always be a breaking point. Would you expect to be able to do a repetitive movement or position forever if it was "ergonomically optimized"? No - it will just take longer to get to the breaking point. Having more resilient tissue will also move that marker further back (this is where exercise, strength and endurance work plays a part).

Hope that's helpful in some way.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #165 on: December 09, 2022, 01:17:30 PM »
I have an appointment next week for pelvic floor PT. One more thing for my list but I've carried 3 babies and had "sneeze leakage" since I was like 20, so...

dandarc

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #166 on: December 09, 2022, 03:05:48 PM »
Punching in - PT this morning went well. Actually they did a small assessment and the strength is starting to even out, no pain on a few movements that at the intial PT session there was definitely some pain. So it is progressing even if right now I feel like I never want to get off the couch again several hours later - for some reason even though the home workout is objectively longer (more reps / sets in HW vs the in-person), the Friday morning PT appointment pretty consistently kicks my ass substantially more.

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #167 on: December 09, 2022, 03:16:59 PM »
Punching in - PT this morning went well. Actually they did a small assessment and the strength is starting to even out, no pain on a few movements that at the intial PT session there was definitely some pain. So it is progressing even if right now I feel like I never want to get off the couch again several hours later - for some reason even though the home workout is objectively longer (more reps / sets in HW vs the in-person), the Friday morning PT appointment pretty consistently kicks my ass substantially more.

Yay progress!  Do you also actually see / feel your progress?  My PT noticed some progress before I did, but for a few exercises it was very cool when I actually felt the progress myself.

dandarc

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #168 on: December 09, 2022, 03:42:42 PM »
Punching in - PT this morning went well. Actually they did a small assessment and the strength is starting to even out, no pain on a few movements that at the intial PT session there was definitely some pain. So it is progressing even if right now I feel like I never want to get off the couch again several hours later - for some reason even though the home workout is objectively longer (more reps / sets in HW vs the in-person), the Friday morning PT appointment pretty consistently kicks my ass substantially more.

Yay progress!  Do you also actually see / feel your progress?  My PT noticed some progress before I did, but for a few exercises it was very cool when I actually felt the progress myself.
Some days I guess, some days definitely seems like backtracking. One exercise in particular I finally was able to do the number reps / sets asked for today, so that's progress. I've also got this clicking in my back whenever I'm lowering my good leg when it is lifted too far up and I lower it back down by itself which has actually been getting worse - no pain but I can hear and feel it in my back. It has crept into all my "on the back with one leg up at a time" stuff when it started on just one exercise in particular which was modified to avoid the click. Overall, kind of a mixed bag so far.

mspym

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #169 on: December 09, 2022, 04:09:09 PM »
Finished out the week with pre and post run physio exercises. Today the figure-4 twists were really doing it for me but I think it’s because my glute medius really needs some love to get rid of the hot-ball of ow.

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #170 on: December 09, 2022, 04:17:45 PM »
Finished out the week with pre and post run physio exercises. Today the figure-4 twists were really doing it for me but I think it’s because my glute medius really needs some love to get rid of the hot-ball of ow.

Glute medius is one of my targets too (hello clamshells, bridges).  My left side is very tight, pigeon pose is difficult

Dollar Slice

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #171 on: December 09, 2022, 05:13:43 PM »
I guess I'm declaring PT bankruptcy. I have been feeling terrible all week since that bad migraine last weekend - tons of weird symptoms, feeling very bad mood-wise (which can be migraine symptoms but might not be), lots of vertigo and anxiety and feeling light-headed and just generally all over strange and bad with no real reason. I assume massive migraine hangover? Anyway, I finally feel 90% better. Starting from square one. I've barely been doing anything, just minimal easy cardio every day.

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #172 on: December 09, 2022, 05:53:45 PM »
I guess I'm declaring PT bankruptcy. I have been feeling terrible all week since that bad migraine last weekend - tons of weird symptoms, feeling very bad mood-wise (which can be migraine symptoms but might not be), lots of vertigo and anxiety and feeling light-headed and just generally all over strange and bad with no real reason. I assume massive migraine hangover? Anyway, I finally feel 90% better. Starting from square one. I've barely been doing anything, just minimal easy cardio every day.

Don’t discount getting some cardio in each day - especially given your migraines.

Sailor Sam

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #173 on: December 09, 2022, 07:10:34 PM »
It’s finals week here in the Northeast. Busy for the kids, but what I didn’t know is that it’s busy for the teachers as well. Turns out grading sucks almost as much as taking the test.

Upshot, today was long, and I forgot about PT (willfully?) until this thread popped up. Now it’s done.

Despite how terrible my PT practice is, I can feel the movements making small muscles stronger. My hip is starting to feel better. Now all I have to do is keep doing exercise for the rest of of my life ;)

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #174 on: December 09, 2022, 07:39:05 PM »
It’s finals week here in the Northeast. Busy for the kids, but what I didn’t know is that it’s busy for the teachers as well. Turns out grading sucks almost as much as taking the test.

Upshot, today was long, and I forgot about PT (willfully?) until this thread popped up. Now it’s done.

Despite how terrible my PT practice is, I can feel the movements making small muscles stronger. My hip is starting to feel better. Now all I have to do is keep doing exercise for the rest of of my life ;)

Spouse is a professor - so very busy coming into finals (all the grading!, test prep, final projects…).

I am impressed that you did your PT after work, though I am not surprised that you are very disciplined.  Yes, I noticed differences as various supporting / stabilizing muscles got stronger.  How about we all get to do these exercises for the rest of our lives?  No. Well, I will work on that marketing.

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #175 on: December 10, 2022, 03:30:11 PM »
Did my floor exercises today - these mostly target the glute medius and/or core.  Did one forearm plank on knees.

Took about 10 minutes.

ixtap

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #176 on: December 10, 2022, 04:19:00 PM »
While I have manage to fit in the main exercises, today is the first time since Wednesday I got up, went for my walk, then went to the gym for my PT and yoga.

G-dog

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #177 on: December 10, 2022, 04:52:27 PM »
While I have manage to fit in the main exercises, today is the first time since Wednesday I got up, went for my walk, then went to the gym for my PT and yoga.

Gold star and to-do list item crossed off for today.

oneday

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #178 on: December 11, 2022, 09:14:28 AM »
Fantastic participation and momentum, everyone! Maybe one day the forum won't need this thread anymore!

@philli14 thank you for your detailed and helpful response. I am taking it all on, especially the concept of "the body can only take so much, even in ergonomic position". Another reason to FIRE, for office workers.

@La Bibliotecaria Feroz ⭐ for the appointment! Sure hope your leakage can be eliminated. That just seems unfair.

@dandarc I hope you communicate the changes in the clicking to your therapist. They have always told me "if it doesn't hurt, don't worry about it". But seems like PT is exacerbating it.

@Dollar Slice if you ever followed FlyLady, the house cleaning guru, she had a saying (I'm paraphrasing), jump right in where you are, something is better than nothing.

Did my floor exercises today - these mostly target the glute medius and/or core.  Did one forearm plank on knees.

Took about 10 minutes.

Gold star for you, too!

Yesterday was the first day since Wednesdays appointment where I didn't do the assigned PT. I will point to "unstructured weekend" and " all day, out of town event" as challenges, and will think about how to work the routine into them next time.

Today I did one set already, and am setting a timer for the next one.

Computer is still out of commission, but y'all don't need me, you are rocking it! Keep moving, friends!

ixtap

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #179 on: December 11, 2022, 09:23:28 AM »
The wind is howling, the rain is, well, falling at the moment, but it was pounding earlier, and I only have one pair of shoes at the moment that are not flip flops. So, I elected to stay dry and did boat modifications for my morning movement. I really need to figure out winter shoes/boots. I thought it was supposed to be another dry year, but that hasn't held so far.  Good: we need it!

Dollar Slice

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #180 on: December 12, 2022, 12:06:48 AM »
I did all my PT exercises today for the first time in ages. Although I didn't do as much cardio as I would have liked. It was cold and rainy (then snowy) so not a good day for walking.

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #181 on: December 12, 2022, 08:35:44 AM »
@oneday - yes have talked about the clicking and that it seems to be getting worse. Modified a couple more exercises to avoid the click since Friday. I've been clear with them that it doesn't hurt, but their judgement is to try to engage same muscles without triggering the click.

Congrats to those doing well with keeping it up. I'm doing terribly - have not done the workout even once since PT appointment on Friday. Sunday I usually do yoga but didn't do that either. In my head I can say "too much crap stacked up on this particular weekend - you were tired and mentally overwhelmed". But really I was just lazy - oversleeping then plodding along too much to get everything done that needed done due to three not-normal semi-major commitments I / we had starting on Friday.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #182 on: December 12, 2022, 11:38:20 AM »
OMG the intake form for the pelvic floor PT was super long and emotionally draining. Sure, let's talk about my miscarriage and my dead brother and my father's alcoholism and also pregnancy puke-peeing. I persevered. It is done.

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #183 on: December 12, 2022, 01:20:04 PM »
Great job, @La Bibliotecaria Feroz. I hope the PT is really helpful!

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #184 on: December 12, 2022, 02:45:04 PM »
@La Bibliotecaria Feroz - I hope your PT goes as well as mine is going.  It is a weird experience, but really nice to be able to sneeze without thinking. 

Have slowly been building up my strength exercises.  Physiotherapist said I am making great progress but warned me to pace myself.  The sets/ reps / holds are a goal: like in six months. 
Her guideline was to make it invigorating but not so much that I'm sore the next day. Dang it is hard to keep track of a shifting baseline is.


Still doing the pelvic floor relaxation exercises 2 x a day, and the gentle movement  face the day warm up. 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2022, 12:14:38 PM by Frugal Lizard »

mspym

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #185 on: December 12, 2022, 03:27:50 PM »
MVP exercises done, added in some pigeon pose and hip openers.

Sailor Sam

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #186 on: December 12, 2022, 03:34:08 PM »
Went to PT, and actually did a few new moves using their equipment.

I’ve drifted into doing my PT fairly late at night. I was getting upset about the timing, because my internal orientation is that things done in the morning are being attended to, and things done in the evening were put off due to laziness and avoidance, stuffed into the day only due to building guilt.

Then I realized that I actually enjoy doing the PT as a pre-bed routine. It feels nice to stretch and mobilize during a less structured & more relaxed time of day. Trying to get my mind to catch up, and see PT as a close to the day.

mspym

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #187 on: December 12, 2022, 04:15:38 PM »
@Sailor Sam that sounds like a nice way to wind down - here’s to reframing so you can recognise the positives.

the_hobbitish

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #188 on: December 13, 2022, 10:57:36 AM »
Did not want to go to the gym. Went to the gym anyway. Ba humbug. Satisfied that I did something which is better than not something. Telling myself tomorrows gym will be good because momentum.

RetiredAt63

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #189 on: December 13, 2022, 11:01:51 AM »
I've done my stretches for the last 3 days.  Trying to get back into the routine.

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #190 on: December 13, 2022, 11:47:28 AM »
I've also got a 3-day PT streak going. Still a little underwhelming on the cardio, but I walked a mile and a half doing errands/carrying my shopping yesterday, so a bit of an improvement.

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #191 on: December 13, 2022, 12:02:35 PM »
Excellent @the_hobbitish - going when you don’t feel like doing so is a huge success.

Way to keep the streak going @RetiredAt63 and @Dollar Slice

ixtap

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #192 on: December 13, 2022, 12:12:11 PM »
Did not want to go to the gym. Went to the gym anyway. Ba humbug. Satisfied that I did something which is better than not something. Telling myself tomorrows gym will be good because momentum.

We use what we have.

I am keeping up with the cardio fine, but have been very meh about my stretching and core exercises. It is easier when I get out of bed and get to, as others have stayed. But it was in the 40s on the boat this morning and we preferred cuddles to gym.

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #193 on: December 13, 2022, 01:44:13 PM »
Did the PT today. One thing I realized was making it a little harder to start - the list of exercises / substitutes has grown to where I'd easily forget something. So I wrote it all down in order before starting today. Also called out sick (really just hella tired since the weekend. Hopefully this isn't the start of something more significant) and had a fantastic day.

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #194 on: December 13, 2022, 11:36:13 PM »
@Dollar Slice not so underwhelming when you consider your coming off a week long migraine. If you had the flu, would you still be underwhelmed?

@dandarc I love a good organized list to work from! Helps me know when I'm doing it right/effectively.

Good habit adherence recently. Found a grid paper to use for tracking. Have not completed All.The.Things on any day, but have always done something. And doing a bit more as time goes on. Good.

Some muscle-use soreness is replacing the pain from trying to move normally and being constrained. Like, 15% more range of motion? Thus not hitting the constraints as often. Nice.

Dollar Slice

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #195 on: December 14, 2022, 12:06:43 AM »
@Dollar Slice not so underwhelming when you consider your coming off a week long migraine. If you had the flu, would you still be underwhelmed?

No. But I don't usually feel this way after migraines, either. I'm not sure what's been going on with me. (I mean, there's a LOT going on with me, as per usual. But I don't know what is the primary cause of this specific circumstance.)

On the plus side: managed to get all of my cardio in, late in the day today.

Frugal Lizard

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #196 on: December 14, 2022, 05:42:12 AM »
I did a really comprehensive slow PT session last night before bed. And it was a great preparation for sleep.

Thanks @Sailor Sam for the idea /reframe. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #197 on: December 14, 2022, 06:43:58 AM »
I had physio yesterday.   I could really feel the difference from last week.  Great motivation to do my exercises consistently.

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #198 on: December 14, 2022, 11:15:06 AM »
I did a really comprehensive slow PT session last night before bed. And it was a great preparation for sleep.

Thanks @Sailor Sam for the idea /reframe.

I’m glad it felt good for you! I was pretty cranky about it last night. I guess we’re on opposite schedules.

dandarc

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Re: The Physical Therapy/Gentle Movement Accountability & Resources Thread
« Reply #199 on: December 14, 2022, 03:30:20 PM »
Took off from work again. Did workout. Fumed about a supposedly progressive church being so stupidly conservative when it comes to its own operations and money.