#StopBurningStuff by 2030 or sooner

[Indio]

I feel as if my radon fan is accurately sized for the basement, but will double check its energy efficieny. I have an always on radon sensor, next to the basement laundry area, and in 12 years it has gone off three times alerting me that radon levels were above safe levels. Having the sensor always monitoring short and long range levels gives me a level of confidence that the subslab ventilation is effective. However, in winter, it's rare to get the levels below .9 pcl. In summer, we usually average about .4 when I keep the basement window cracked slightly. I tested the main living area and the radon levels were almost undetectable. The outdoor fan needed to be replaced once because the first fan burnt out, another incident was when the outdoor on/off switch was mistakenly turned off, and mostly recently, when the system was disconnected for the installation of a new roof and then reconnected with the fan upside down, blowing air in, rather than sucking it out.

@Glenstache My stove vent fan is pretty much useless because it circulates the air without removing it from the kitchen. Do you think changing cookware could reduce the PM 2.5 rating? It seems to be a little lower when I use the ceramic saute pan.

[middo]

The conversation about radon levels is interesting to me.  It isn't talked about at all in Australia and I have never heard of a house having a radon fan in it.  I checked on our official government ARPANSA website and my home appears to be in the 10 Bq/m3 range, which is low internationally and less than the dangerous range they list as more than 200 Bq/m3. 

[nereo]

The conversation about radon levels is interesting to me.  It isn't talked about at all in Australia and I have never heard of a house having a radon fan in it.  I checked on our official government ARPANSA website and my home appears to be in the 10 Bq/m3 range, which is low internationally and less than the dangerous range they list as more than 200 Bq/m3.

Well radon comes from the radioactive decay of uranium, which is only found in certain rock types. Background radon levels are very regional, even within the US.

[Glenstache]

This is why I bought the air quality monitor with radon detection for the house to begin with.  I wanted to be sure I wasn't doing something stupid. 

The inspector noted that the system wasn't installed to code when we bought the house, as the radon vent was routed through the house instead of outside the house.  I feel pretty confident the builder just slapped the cheapest components they could on it without doing anything correctly or professionally  It was a trend in my neighborhood. 

I've tested it out by turning the radon fan off when we went on vacation, and I watched the levels spike.  But they came back down with the new lower powered fan.  So I feel pretty good about it.  But yea, I don't have a professionals view on it.

I love a good empirical demonstration. As long as the detector is sensitive to the levels that are worrisome for health, then you should be good. Given how technical you have been in all of your other posts, this does not surprise me.

[Glenstache]

@Glenstache My stove vent fan is pretty much useless because it circulates the air without removing it from the kitchen. Do you think changing cookware could reduce the PM 2.5 rating? It seems to be a little lower when I use the ceramic saute pan.

Changes in cookware is far outside my area of expertise (I'm a geologist and occassionally do vapor intrusion assessment, so had some knowledge for the sub slab stuff). If you are stuck with a recirculation fan in your kitchen, I'd look to see if it is possible to retrofit to external exhaust or see if the filter package is up to snuff. I've only looked into those as a consumer trying to figure out if they work, and there is a huge amount of variability in how good they are.

[RWD]

The conversation about radon levels is interesting to me.  It isn't talked about at all in Australia and I have never heard of a house having a radon fan in it.  I checked on our official government ARPANSA website and my home appears to be in the 10 Bq/m3 range, which is low internationally and less than the dangerous range they list as more than 200 Bq/m3.

Well radon comes from the radioactive decay of uranium, which is only found in certain rock types. Background radon levels are very regional, even within the US.

Map, from Wikipedia:

[Indio]

Hmm… that map might be a wee bit off. I’m in one of the dark blue regions and my parents live in dark blue in another state and their radon levels were alarmingly high, especially compared to mine. All of my friends and neighbors in town, who live in homes, with and without basements, have radon remediation systems or ERV to fix issues.

[tygertygertyger]

Hmm. We had radon tested before we bought our house and levels were fine. Based on what was said upthread though, our adding insulation to the attic might mean higher radon levels? Huh.

[RWD]

The Technology Connections YouTube channel is doing a couple videos on home electrification.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVLLNjSLJTQ

[nereo]

The Technology Connections YouTube channel is doing a couple videos on home electrification.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVLLNjSLJTQ

Thanks for sharing..,

[geekette]

Technology Connextras unscripted, rambling follow up on the above home electrification video.  He mentions some good points about grid tied rooftop solar and its potential impact on grid maintenance.  I don't know how similar that is to elsewhere, but he cites that in CA, maintenance of the grid is 75% of the cost of electricity.  That's both a surprise to me, and not all that surprising when you consider all the poles, lines, transformers, power plants, and people employed to maintain them.

[RWD]

Technology Connextras unscripted, rambling follow up on the above home electrification video.  He mentions some good points about grid tied rooftop solar and its potential impact on grid maintenance.  I don't know how similar that is to elsewhere, but he cites that in CA, maintenance of the grid is 75% of the cost of electricity.  That's both a surprise to me, and not all that surprising when you consider all the poles, lines, transformers, power plants, and people employed to maintain them.

I saw that as well. Definitely worth thinking about. The obvious solution is to just have a fixed connection charge for infrastructure then set the rate for electricity use/production much much lower. And/or some tiering based on time/amount of use. The presumed issue with that is it may no longer be financially worth it to install residential solar panels. And maybe that's okay.

Absolutely agree with Alec that not putting solar panels on commercial buildings (especially big-box type stores) is a huge wasted opportunity.

[rockeTree]

There is always a back and forth with rates on this - you want to incentivize efficient use of energy which requires that reducing usage meaningfully reduces bills, and you want poorer users (who often have smaller houses and less stuff, although you can find studies going either way) to have a shot at lower bills. Retail customers feel a high fixed charges as a real affront and in a lot of states the folks making the call are elected, too.

Cali has breathtakingly high maintenance expenses because a lot of their systems are very old and were (allegedly) very poorly maintained for decades while the CPUC did little to hold them accountable.  I really enjoyed Katherine Blunt's book on PG&E about this, very accessible even if you are not an infrastructure dork. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/670012/california-burning-by-katherine-blunt/

[jeninco]

Wow, this conversation has really percolated along since the last time I had a look!

Questions, I got questions... (I did read over the last couple of pages first...)

1. Anyone use a heat-pump water-heater? It'll be living in our (5-foot high, soon to be sealed and "conditioned") crawl space, so although it gets pretty dang cold here in the winter, it'll be sharing the space with the furnace. Does it produce hot-enough water for people who really like hot showers? Any other experiences, positive or negative?

2. Any suggestions for reliable radon detectors (yeah, this is related to the whole "sealing the crawl space" thing)

3. We have forced air, with a 96% efficient not-quite 10-year old furnace. Do combo heat pumps (air + water) even exist?

4. A roofer friend had really rude things to say about most of the rooftop solar-panel installers around here, but we can get some nice stacked rebates if we get on this fairly soon. Any thoughts about what to ask the installers?

5. We'd like to also add a not-quite whole-house battery at some time in the future (because batteries are freaking expensive right now!). We're not intending to run every single circuit in the house, but it'd be nice to make heat (especially if we keep the existing furnace for a while) and not lose food. Our power lines are above ground and coming up on 60 years old, and we get high winds... Any thoughts about this?

Following on to @A mom and @nereo above, we've designed our bike shed so it's LESS effort to take a bike then a car. Just walk out the back door (the shoe rack with cycling shoes is right there), around the side, unlock the bikes, go through the gate, and you're on your way! I love the general principal of "make it easy to do the things you want to do"! (The bikes are locked because 1) there's a bit of theft around town, and 2) it means I can't get to where I'm going, lock up my bike, and THEN realize I forgot the key... which has happened, alas.)

[NorCal]

Wow, this conversation has really percolated along since the last time I had a look!

Questions, I got questions... (I did read over the last couple of pages first...)

1. Anyone use a heat-pump water-heater? It'll be living in our (5-foot high, soon to be sealed and "conditioned") crawl space, so although it gets pretty dang cold here in the winter, it'll be sharing the space with the furnace. Does it produce hot-enough water for people who really like hot showers? Any other experiences, positive or negative?

2. Any suggestions for reliable radon detectors (yeah, this is related to the whole "sealing the crawl space" thing)

3. We have forced air, with a 96% efficient not-quite 10-year old furnace. Do combo heat pumps (air + water) even exist?

4. A roofer friend had really rude things to say about most of the rooftop solar-panel installers around here, but we can get some nice stacked rebates if we get on this fairly soon. Any thoughts about what to ask the installers?

5. We'd like to also add a not-quite whole-house battery at some time in the future (because batteries are freaking expensive right now!). We're not intending to run every single circuit in the house, but it'd be nice to make heat (especially if we keep the existing furnace for a while) and not lose food. Our power lines are above ground and coming up on 60 years old, and we get high winds... Any thoughts about this?

Following on to @A mom and @nereo above, we've designed our bike shed so it's LESS effort to take a bike then a car. Just walk out the back door (the shoe rack with cycling shoes is right there), around the side, unlock the bikes, go through the gate, and you're on your way! I love the general principal of "make it easy to do the things you want to do"! (The bikes are locked because 1) there's a bit of theft around town, and 2) it means I can't get to where I'm going, lock up my bike, and THEN realize I forgot the key... which has happened, alas.)

1. Heat Pump water heaters are great.  That was my highest ROI electrification project.  It gets the water plenty hot and (counterintuitively) ends up being slightly more efficient if you keep the temp hot.  You may have some specific issues with the space you described.  The heat-pump portion is stacked on top of the water tank, so they end up being tall.  I'd guess mine is roughly 5' tall.  They need to be surrounded by a volume of air equivalent to a 10x10x10 room, otherwise ventilation needs to be added.  It should be fine in semi-conditioned space, but this is a good question to ask an installer.

2. Airthings makes a home air quality monitor that includes radon.  I use it and have been very happy with it.

3. I've never heard of combo air + water heat pumps, but that would be very cool if it existed.

4. I personally plan to stick with larger & more reputable solar installers.  There's a lot of smaller companies that won't be around for the warranty period.  My area has developed a market with what I'll call "mega regional" installers.  These are companies that have a lot of employees, do larger projects (parking structures, community solar, etc) and don't have the "ick" factor of dealing with Tesla or SunRun.  This is where I plan to start.  Go through the usual process of getting three quotes & calling references.

5. Batteries are expensive and do have a limited life.  My plan is to wait for cars that have V2H backup capabilities.  Today it's just the F150, but it's supposedly being deployed in some of the new models by GM and Volvo.  I expect this will be standard equipment in 5-10 years.  The new Enphase inverters/controllers/chargers for solar systems are supposed to support this as well, but details remain sparse.

[geekette]

Several Kia and Hyundai models have V2L (vehicle to load) capabilities. Not quite whole house with a transfer switch, but enough to run your fridge, some lights, and do a little light cooking off an extension cord for a few days.

Technology Connextras has a video up on running his kitchen from his IONIQ 5 (unscripted, so it gets a bit long).

[nereo]

Regarding #5 - this is always a bit unpopular, but if you are just protecting against the very occasional (< 10 days/year) power outages and only want to power a few circuits, like heating and your refrigerator, then a small generator with a manual throw switch is going to be by far the cheapest option.  For around $1k you can buy a generator that can power your fridge and a heat pump. The equivalent battery system will run you 10x that much, and have an enormous amount of embodied energy. Even after a decade of light use, a generator is going to have a lower footprint than a ≥50kw*h house battery pack.

You can also use the generator switch to hook up an EV (that allows 2-way charging) to accomplish the same thing.

Still, there are reasons where a battery can make sense - if your utility doesn't have net metering or has high nighttime electricty rates the daily benefit of battery storage can smooth out the production from your panels.

[jeninco]

Regarding #5 - this is always a bit unpopular, but if you are just protecting against the very occasional (< 10 days/year) power outages and only want to power a few circuits, like heating and your refrigerator, then a small generator with a manual throw switch is going to be by far the cheapest option.  For around $1k you can buy a generator that can power your fridge and a heat pump. The equivalent battery system will run you 10x that much, and have an enormous amount of embodied energy. Even after a decade of light use, a generator is going to have a lower footprint than a ≥50kw*h house battery pack.

You can also use the generator switch to hook up an EV (that allows 2-way charging) to accomplish the same thing.

Still, there are reasons where a battery can make sense - if your utility doesn't have net metering or has high nighttime electricty rates the daily benefit of battery storage can smooth out the production from your panels.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback! I think we'll continue with the original plan to wait a bit on the battery situation -- it's likely we'll wind up with an EV, and as long as it isn't our only vehicle, that's a battery we could use. However, I think we have to re-size the electrical panel...

@NorCal, thanks! I'll go have a more careful look at the water heaters and the radon detectors. Solar installers .... it's going on my list to start with calls, I guess.

[RWD]

The Technology Connections YouTube channel is doing a couple videos on home electrification.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVLLNjSLJTQ

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zheQKmAT_a0

[LD_TAndK]

The Technology Connections YouTube channel is doing a couple videos on home electrification.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVLLNjSLJTQ

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zheQKmAT_a0

Wow that 120V heat pump water heater is really cool. Great to have an option that plugs into existing wiring for gas households. I'd like a heat pump water heater, I have a 240V electric lowboy water heater, I don't think they're going to make heat pump heaters in lowboy geometry unfortunately.

The 120V battery electric range is a really neat idea. I doubt many people would be willing to pay the price premium and have a theoretical limit to their stove use, though few would actually hit the limit. With a 4kWh battery and 1.5 kW continuous power it'd cover all my cooking.

His statement about a standard propane tank containing 120kWh really piqued my interest. Are the "indoor safe" heaters actually safe to use indoors? I might have one around just as simple cold weather power outtage insurance.

[RWD]

But I want to insist on 100% electric for our next house purchase

Looks like we will be fulfilling this goal. I was almost looking forward to buying a house with a bunch of gas crap and ripping it out but our top candidate house just happened to have electric everything already! Doesn't even have a gas line. There are still two burning culprits though: a pair of fireplaces and a built-in patio propane grill. We'll probably just not use these much or at all.

There is potential for improvement though. No solar panels, so that'll be a big project. Could also replace the water heater with a heat pump version for efficiency (though the current one was new just last month).

All this is of course pending house inspection / closing / etc. But pretty excited to get away from natural gas with this move.

[NorCal]

But I want to insist on 100% electric for our next house purchase

Looks like we will be fulfilling this goal. I was almost looking forward to buying a house with a bunch of gas crap and ripping it out but our top candidate house just happened to have electric everything already! Doesn't even have a gas line. There are still two burning culprits though: a pair of fireplaces and a built-in patio propane grill. We'll probably just not use these much or at all.

There is potential for improvement though. No solar panels, so that'll be a big project. Could also replace the water heater with a heat pump version for efficiency (though the current one was new just last month).

All this is of course pending house inspection / closing / etc. But pretty excited to get away from natural gas with this move.

That sounds like a great find!

As happy and as proud as I am of my electrification projects, I would be even happier (and marginally richer) if I never had to go through with them in the first place.

If you still have the itch to "do something", there will always be energy efficiency projects to find.

I also have a propane barbecue, and I haven't found great alternatives.  It feels like there should be better options than there are.  My smoker is electric though.

[RWD]

Could also replace the water heater with a heat pump version for efficiency (though the current one was new just last month).

Sounds like there is also a second water heater in the house of unknown age. I didn't see it when touring the house. But maybe that would be a good candidate for a heat pump version replacement.

The house also has two heat pump units (for zoned A/C and heat), only 2 and 4 years old. Quite the score to not need to worry about those in the immediate future.

[alsoknownasDean]

The Technology Connections YouTube channel is doing a couple videos on home electrification.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVLLNjSLJTQ

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zheQKmAT_a0

The 120V battery electric range is a really neat idea. I doubt many people would be willing to pay the price premium and have a theoretical limit to their stove use, though few would actually hit the limit. With a 4kWh battery and 1.5 kW continuous power it'd cover all my cooking.

I'm not such a fan of having a battery so close to a hot oven. I somehow doubt the battery would last all that long. Better to put the battery outside.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[LD_TAndK]

Solar installed on my home, still waiting for the final inspection. My state gets the majority of its electricity from coal and nat gas.

Cost was $23k, after tax incentives $15k, for a 6.8kW system. Loan rates were high so we did cash. We should produce over 7MW annually to start. Install is warrantied for 15 years, equipment warrantied for 25 years.

The generation should save us about $1000 a year. If we incur no additional costs (due to roof replacement or whatever) it's a return similar to investing in a 2% return investment vehicle with a 25 year maturity date. Not great unfortunately considering our mortgage is a risk free 2.875%, but that's not why we're doing it!

[grantmeaname]

Isn't it like a 6% return year one?

[LD_TAndK]

Isn't it like a 6% return year one?

I'm considering the $15k principle gone, unlike a typical investment. I guess that's not necessarily true if it increases my home value. But after 25 years they will be depreciated majorly.

[grantmeaname]

I thought modern solar panels were still producing at 85-90% at year 25, not worthless?

[GilesMM]

Solar installed on my home, still waiting for the final inspection. My state gets the majority of its electricity from coal and nat gas.

Cost was $23k, after tax incentives $15k, for a 6.8kW system. Loan rates were high so we did cash. We should produce over 7MW annually to start. Install is warrantied for 15 years, equipment warrantied for 25 years.

The generation should save us about $1000 a year. If we incur no additional costs (due to roof replacement or whatever) it's a return similar to investing in a 2% return investment vehicle with a 25 year maturity date. Not great unfortunately considering our mortgage is a risk free 2.875%, but that's not why we're doing it!

Good work!


$3.3/w is a bit pricy. Did you get multiple bids?   At annual savings of $1000 it will take 15 years to pay back, which is fairly long (CA is about 5 years, OR 10 years).  Perhaps you have low electricity rates in addition to your somewhat high initial cost?

[LD_TAndK]

I thought modern solar panels were still producing at 85-90% at year 25, not worthless?

You're probably right I might be too pessimistic. Another factor in solar's favor is that my electricity provider adjusts rates biannually, upward over time, so the amount saved is somewhat inflationary.

$3.3/w is a bit pricy. Did you get multiple bids?   At annual savings of $1000 it will take 15 years to pay back, which is fairly long (CA is about 5 years, OR 10 years).  Perhaps you have low electricity rates in addition to your somewhat high initial cost?

I pay about $0.12 per kWh in Maryland. I quoted on energy sage and also through three local businesses and all were above $3/watt, some up in the mid $4/watt. Maybe it's my area?

[grantmeaname]

Both the system cost and the electric cost seem pretty similar to what I've seen in OH.

In my math I've assumed that the decline in production is equally offset by the cost inflation. Even that is arguably pessimistic IMO

[alsoknownasDean]

I thought modern solar panels were still producing at 85-90% at year 25, not worthless?

You're probably right I might be too pessimistic. Another factor in solar's favor is that my electricity provider adjusts rates biannually, upward over time, so the amount saved is somewhat inflationary.

$3.3/w is a bit pricy. Did you get multiple bids?   At annual savings of $1000 it will take 15 years to pay back, which is fairly long (CA is about 5 years, OR 10 years).  Perhaps you have low electricity rates in addition to your somewhat high initial cost?

I pay about $0.12 per kWh in Maryland. I quoted on energy sage and also through three local businesses and all were above $3/watt, some up in the mid $4/watt. Maybe it's my area?

What's your feed in rate for solar? But yeah $3.30 per watt is a lot.

Are the high prices due to special US-specific hardware for solar or just installer markup? 440W solar panels are about US$230 here, and a 5kW Fronius inverter about US$1500. 15 panels for 6.6kW and the inverter is about US$5K, plus maybe a couple of grand for installation hardware and labor. Maybe there's some extra tariffs on the panels there, but still, seems high.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[grantmeaname]

We have pretty significant tariffs here on Chinese and southeast Asian solar panels and inputs, apparently as high as 250% in some extreme cases but more typically 30%. Unbound Solar is a good example of the prices at the bottom end of the market - prices increase from there for an installer's quote. Beyond that it's the cost of the plans and engineering signoff, plus omnipresent giant markups from the installers and financing providers.

Edit: I'm curious if the inverters are pricier here due to the lower voltage/higher current. Idk, I'm an accountant, just a thought.

[nereo]

Sharing a collective “win” - for the past year I’ve been involved with a local group that is pushing for more climate-friendly approaches at the community level. The group I’ve worked most closely with has been focused on infrastructure and code. This week we testified before the town council and got them to unanimously the ‘stretch code’ for more stricter energy efficiency in all new builds and major renovations.

To address the affordability aspect we obtained enough private funding to meet the federal match requirement for block grants for low income houses to weatherize and replace inefficient heating systems with heat pumps. We expect it will pay for heat pumps and air sealing for 50-60 homes in our town of <10,000 in the next 18 months.

[RWD]

That's awesome! Improvement on a larger scale.

[nereo]

That's awesome! Improvement on a larger scale.

I highly recommend getting involved at the local (town/city) level to push forward change.  It does involve attending a lot of excessively dry meetings and listening to people who (real world recent example) want to discuss the "approval and flag policy exemption request for small businesses". But especially in small towns a smallish group of likeminded people can really influence town policy.  Instead of just impacting your one home, it can have an impact on hundreds, and is a more holistic approach.

[tygertygertyger]

Sharing a collective “win” - for the past year I’ve been involved with a local group that is pushing for more climate-friendly approaches at the community level. The group I’ve worked most closely with has been focused on infrastructure and code. This week we testified before the town council and got them to unanimously the ‘stretch code’ for more stricter energy efficiency in all new builds and major renovations.

To address the affordability aspect we obtained enough private funding to meet the federal match requirement for block grants for low income houses to weatherize and replace inefficient heating systems with heat pumps. We expect it will pay for heat pumps and air sealing for 50-60 homes in our town of <10,000 in the next 18 months.

This is incredible! I love this. We spent the winter walking around our neighborhood and gauging how much snow was on roofs, so I love the thought of doing something about that!

Question though... the code is for new builds and major renovations. How does the low income house achieve the private funding that was procured? Is that in the event a low income house is doing a major renovation, or is it separate from the code?

[GilesMM]

We started a Sustainability group for our neighborhood of about 1500 residences. We meet monthly. We share tips on [size=78%]how to get going on solar, reduce water use, end pesticides, native plants, and a bunch of other stuff. It works because neighbors really want to know how others are optimizing things. We had an Earth Day Fair with about 500 attendees.[/size]

[nereo]

We started a Sustainability group for our neighborhood of about 1500 residences. We meet monthly. We share tips on how to get going on solar, reduce water use, end pesticides, native plants, and a bunch of other stuff. It works because neighbors really want to know how others are optimizing things. We had an Earth Day Fair with about 500 attendees.

That's great.  Early on I learned a lot from an older faculty member who started a side-gig doing energy efficiency audits for homes (at no cost to the homeowner). Through her she introduced me to several other homeowners with similar issues and similar style homes, and we discussed ideas and solutions. 

[rockeTree]

That's so cool, nereo.  I am wondering if I can barista fire to insulation work at minimum wage or something but of course public engagement we can work on at any time :-)

[nereo]

[
Question though... the code is for new builds and major renovations. How does the low income house achieve the private funding that was procured? Is that in the event a low income house is doing a major renovation, or is it separate from the code?

Short version, we ( on behalf of the town) we’re able to get an $80k block grant through (I believe) the build-back-better legislation. Biggest barrier was that it required a 50% match, which we were able to do by reaching out to private donors.  We decided that what our older housing stock needed most was 1) weatherizarion and insulation and 2)mini-split heat pumps.  So through the grant we established three “tiers” bases on income, where the grant would pay 100%, 75% or 50% of the cost up to $6k. As a bonus it stacks with the state rebates which offer $750 per heat pump for everyone and up to $2,500 for the lowest income, plus $500 in free weather sealing for anyone willing to get a (free) energy audit with blower door test.

It adds up to an i impressive amount of support for the people who have the least disposable income, and who need more efficient homes the most

[eyesonthehorizon]

@nereo - this is incredible work, a universal win.

[Indio]

@nereo Congrats on the progress and raising awareness about benefits and cost savings of the mini-splits.

In my area, the installation was the expensive part. HVAC installers were charging $2k per head and $2k for the condenser. One even told me that with the tax rebate, it was ok to overpay by 40%. I ended up negotiating an hourly rate, after I did most of the install setup except for the part that required heavy lifting.

Our town sustainability committee has been making inroads, albeit slowly with many unnecessary obstacles. There are 8 subcommittees all focused on different sustainability issues. This week hoping for a decision about gas leaf blowers and lawn mowers, which have become a public health issue.

[NorCal]

This is some truly inspiring work in helping the community.  I certainly aspire to contribute in a similar fashion when my kids are a bit older.

[rockeTree]

Solar installed on my home, still waiting for the final inspection. My state gets the majority of its electricity from coal and nat gas.

Cost was $23k, after tax incentives $15k, for a 6.8kW system. Loan rates were high so we did cash. We should produce over 7MW annually to start. Install is warrantied for 15 years, equipment warrantied for 25 years.

The generation should save us about $1000 a year. If we incur no additional costs (due to roof replacement or whatever) it's a return similar to investing in a 2% return investment vehicle with a 25 year maturity date. Not great unfortunately considering our mortgage is a risk free 2.875%, but that's not why we're doing it!

So are you inspected connected and running now? How is it?

I am refreshing my old energy sage quotes from 2015 (!) and those old prices were a little below and a little above your price there, but I imagine the tech is a lot better - they used to say I could not meet all my needs on my tiny rowhouse roof and now they say I can. We will see when they update what I get price-wise (also in Maryland).

[LD_TAndK]

So are you inspected connected and running now? How is it?

Working great so far, exciting to start producing electricity in the sunniest part of the year. I'm setup with the enphase app that gives me copious data to play with. The installers if you're interested, I think they cover most of north central MD.

[rockeTree]

Thanks! Were they relatively low drama about the process?

[LD_TAndK]

Thanks! Were they relatively low drama about the process?

Yes they were very straightforward, no big sales pitch, forthright with pricing and design. Quick to respond to emails and accurately estimated the install timeline.

[NorCal]

Solar installed on my home, still waiting for the final inspection. My state gets the majority of its electricity from coal and nat gas.

Cost was $23k, after tax incentives $15k, for a 6.8kW system. Loan rates were high so we did cash. We should produce over 7MW annually to start. Install is warrantied for 15 years, equipment warrantied for 25 years.

The generation should save us about $1000 a year. If we incur no additional costs (due to roof replacement or whatever) it's a return similar to investing in a 2% return investment vehicle with a 25 year maturity date. Not great unfortunately considering our mortgage is a risk free 2.875%, but that's not why we're doing it!

Don't forget that the 2% return is a real return while you're thinking about your other investments in nominal terms.  I don't know about where you live, but electricity has been going up by something like 7-10%/yr her in CO.  That's still a pretty sizeable investment win if electricity price inflation stays on its current trend.

[grantmeaname]

Yes, but on the other hand the electricity generation fades over time and the terminal value of solar is $0.