The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Throw Down the Gauntlet => Topic started by: Herbert Derp on January 15, 2014, 09:31:43 PM
-
So in 2013, my total spending was a little over $11,300. For reference, that's slightly less than the poverty line in the USA for someone in my situation ($11,490). But I know I can do much better than that--if I maintain my current level of spending I could spend somewhere around $8,000 for the year. That's almost a 30% difference YOY, wow!
I'll be tracking my progress in this thread over the next year, let's see what happens. Anyone want to join me and keep a running tally of their spending for the year?
-
So in 2013, my total spending was a little over $11,300. For reference, that's slightly less than the poverty line in the USA for someone in my situation ($11,490). But I know I can do much better than that--if I maintain my current level of spending I could spend somewhere around $8,000 for the year. That's almost a 30% difference YOY, wow!
I'll be tracking my progress in this thread over the next year, let's see what happens. Anyone want to join me and keep a running tally of their spending for the year?
I would have to sell my house, my kids, my cars, and my wife -- err, no that wouldn't work either..
Good luck.
-
According to the OECD comparative price levels (halfway down this wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity), though I'm sure you could find the full info on the OECD site itself) it would take $145 US dollars to buy the same goods and services in Australia that would cost $100 in the US. Aussie dollar is at 88c right now, so that $145 US is $164.50 AUS.
Which means that $10,000 or less in the US effectively equals $16,450 in Australia when you take into account the exchange rate and a basic purchasing power parity calculation.
So if I can interpret this challenge as "spend less than $16,450 total in 2014" for Aussies, then not only am I planning to come in under that (hopefully at $12,000 Aus for 2014, depending on medical costs) but there's at least one other Aussie who is planning to do this too.
Great challenge.
-
If that's 10k per person in the household, I'm in.
Oooh, I like that version.
My first reaction to $10k annual spending was "no way" because our mortgage is more than double that, but we're a family of five and I'm pretty sure we can spend less than $50k all in. We have the past two years in a row, and that includes some pretty major purchases on top of our lavish lifestyle.
-
If that's 10k per person in the household, I'm in.
Oooh, I like that version.
My first reaction to $10k annual spending was "no way" because our mortgage is more than double that, but we're a family of five and I'm pretty sure we can spend less than $50k all in. We have the past two years in a row, and that includes some pretty major purchases on top of our lavish lifestyle.
Even accounting for being in Australia, we spent about 2.5x that last year per person. Good luck with it!
-
According to the OECD comparative price levels (halfway down this wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity), though I'm sure you could find the full info on the OECD site itself) it would take $145 US dollars to buy the same goods and services in Australia that would cost $100 in the US. Aussie dollar is at 88c right now, so that $145 US is $164.50 AUS.
Which means that $10,000 or less in the US effectively equals $16,450 in Australia when you take into account the exchange rate and a basic purchasing power parity calculation.
So if I can interpret this challenge as "spend less than $16,450 total in 2014" for Aussies, then not only am I planning to come in under that (hopefully at $12,000 Aus for 2014, depending on medical costs) but there's at least one other Aussie who is planning to do this too.
Cool maths, that makes me feel pretty good :) So, yes, I'll join your challenge! :D
-
Even accounting for being in Australia, we spent about 2.5x that last year per person. Good luck with it!
Meh, these numbers can be gamed a bit.
We spend about $10k per person if I just add up our monthly outlays (mortgage, total credit and cash spending). I just realized that this method does not include our paycheck deductions for things like healthcare, or our employer contributions to same. And we own our car outright so we don't have a car payment, which artificially deflates our spending in the same way that MMM owning his home outright deflates his family's spending. In both cases we've already incurred the up front cost, depleting the stash to keep ongoing expenses low.
It's also a little easier for family with three kids to live on $50k than it is for a single dude to live on $10k. Kids don't cost nearly as much to keep alive as does a working adult, and they're tax deductions to boot.
-
Which means that $10,000 or less in the US effectively equals $16,450 in Australia when you take into account the exchange rate and a basic purchasing power parity calculation.
Your math is a little suspect. Why would you price adjust for CPI and then do a currency exchange? One or the other, mate, take your pick.
Besides, the same trickery could be used in the US, too. I think it violates the spirit of the challenge to say "well I live in Beverly Hills and everything costs twice as much here, so I will meet the challenge by spending $20k instead!" Lame.
If you live somewhere that's expensive as hell (and I kind of do) then you are not badass enough to accept the thrown gauntlet. Meet him at $10k or stfu.
-
Which means that $10,000 or less in the US effectively equals $16,450 in Australia when you take into account the exchange rate and a basic purchasing power parity calculation.
Your math is a little suspect. Why would you price adjust for CPI and then do a currency exchange? One or the other, mate, take your pick.
Besides, the same trickery could be used in the US, too. I think it violates the spirit of the challenge to say "well I live in Beverly Hills and everything costs twice as much here, so I will meet the challenge by spending $20k instead!" Lame.
If you live somewhere that's expensive as hell (and I kind of do) then you are not badass enough to accept the thrown gauntlet. Meet him at $10k or stfu.
I'll interpret that as an attempt to inspire me to greater badassity, in the hope that that's the spirit in which it was offered. But I think I'll stick to my original choice of making this very cool challenge relevant to my location and keep participating. My conversion of the $10K limit to the same 'buying power' in Australia is an attempt to fully engage with the spirit and intent of the challenge instead of deciding that it's unrealistic for my location and not even trying because I can't comply with the strictest interpretation of the stated gauntlet, so I'm sad that you saw it as not being in the spirit of the challenge. How about you decide your parameters for this challenge, and I'll decide mine, and everyone can be happy?
From a more academic standpoint because your argument re: COL interests me, if you're honestly stating that you don't think COL adjustments country to country are acceptable, does that mean that anyone living in a developing nation with super low COL can live like a king, spend everything they earn (or more!) and still have technically met the challenge requirements if they've spent less than $10k US? Pretty sure there's a guy on the forum who mentioned his annual expenditure when he lived in Tanzania being something like $200 US... hot damn he would kill this challenge ;-)
And I'm honestly curious about why you wouldn't apply both COL AND an exchange rate if translating an amount across from the US, in US dollars, to Aus... Unless the COL conversion you were using already included a currency conversion? The OECD one didn't, and related the COL in the US in US $ to the COL in Aus in US $. Hence my addition of a currency conversion. So if you set aside your objection to COL conversion, why when translating COL would you not also convert the currency?
-
@ Herbert Derp you really do slam down the gauntlet sometimes.
If I go over by $7k but increase my income by $7k does that count?
-
@ Herbert Derp you really do slam down the gauntlet sometimes.
If I go over by $7k but increase my income by $7k does that count?
Nah, for this one I want to focus purely on spending, not cash flow.
-
ouch. i really cannot imagine managing the equivalent (£6,100) here in the uk. anyone in the uk going to manage that?!
i'm feeling very unbass because i just cannot see that as feasible. my current bare-bones budget is £8,400 including all rent, bills, food and going out (i spend more to allow for visiting family, holidays and a bit of christmas spending). The only way I could get below would be no socialising, no travel to visit family or friends and live in a tiny box room (this is doubly unappealing as I work from home). I just don't feel the need to do that. It would be miserable.
however, if i have a mortgage with my fiancé by the end of the year we could certainly manage $20k if we wanted.
best of luck to all you mad, amazing people!
-
Since rent is covered by my employer, I should definitely be able to manage this, but since I haven't been tracking my expenses for very long, I can't be sure. So I'll take this as a benchmark challenge.
-
Count me in :) I will add a bit based on higher cost of living in my country, but the general idea is on par with my goal of trying to cut spending from 32.000 dollars to 13.000 in 2014.
Two zero spending days in a row now, and 100 dollars since 1st of january.
Good luck.
-
Hmm, somehow I just spent $10 on a t-shirt. Perhaps posting this thread has inspired me to spend more; I'm still experimenting with frugality vs fun. Nevertheless, I don't anticipate going over budget this month.
-
In the debate of "Meet his challenge or go make your own" versus "Modify the challenge for myself," I personally see both sides, but would lean towards the former.
If you can't make the badassity gauntlet thrown down (for whatever reason - expensive COL area, kids, medical issues, whatever), it is what it is.
You should certainly set your own gauntlet, but why clutter up someone else's - that you can't meet, but hopefully others can - to whine or complain talk about how it isn't feasible for you?
A currency conversion makes sense to me, but other shenanigans (increase due to XYZ excuses) don't.
The thing I find the most lame though is those modifying the challenge to something you've already accomplished or are already on track for.
So I'm gonna administer some face punches, but don't take it personally. ;)
Two examples (not to specifically call these out, so names omitted, though obviously you could just scroll up, but just to point out these examples)..
Example 1:
Oooh, I like that version.
My first reaction to $10k annual spending was "no way" because our mortgage is more than double that, but we're a family of five and I'm pretty sure we can spend less than $50k all in. We have the past two years in a row, and that includes some pretty major purchases on top of our lavish lifestyle.
You're "pretty sure" you can, when you've already done it two years in a row? And that's WITH major purchases and lavish spending in those two years? And that's your gauntlet? Come on, that isn't a challenge!
Example 2:
So if I can interpret this challenge as "spend less than $16,450 total in 2014" for Aussies, then not only am I planning to come in under that (hopefully at $12,000 Aus for 2014, depending on medical costs) but there's at least one other Aussie who is planning to do this too.
Great challenge.
Wait, wtf? So you adjust the number up from 10k to 16k, then admit you're already planning on coming in 25% below that? How is it a challenge then to spend less than 16k if 16k is 25% over your budget? A challenge would be going from the 12k you're planning to the original 10k gauntlet thrown, not saying "look at this higher challenge I'm already easily meeting"!
WTF? How are these examples of badassity?
/facepunches administered
(No need to defend yourselves, I'm sure you have unique scenarios, etc. etc.. just pointing out how silly those posts are.)
@ Herbert Derp you really do slam down the gauntlet sometimes.
If I go over by $7k but increase my income by $7k does that count?
Nah, for this one I want to focus purely on spending, not cash flow.
Good call. Otherwise can't I just increase my spending by 50k and income by 50k and call it having met the challenge? That's - again - not badass or a challenge (spending-wise; it may be a challenge income-wise).
It's a tough gauntlet, to be sure.
I won't make it. I won't even make it at the 10k/person level (the wife and I spend about 25k between us).
I'd guess mostly younger people who have a roommate (or in another "nontraditional" living situation - living at home, living in an RV, etc.), so housing costs are super low, could make it. It's a very ERE-esque challenge - I'm sure multiple people on their forums can, and will, make that 10k spending.
It won't be most people that can meet it.
By all means, make your own challenges. But I tip my hat to those who can make this as-is (or with a currency conversion).
-
Hmmm. I see your points, arebelspy (though I'm honestly really interested in understanding why COL adjustments are so distasteful when comparing different countries - because I find that really interesting and potentially hugely problematic or at least challenging!). Your point about it not being a challenge if you're already doing it is something for me to ponder some more. You really do have a way of facepunching without being offensive, a rare skill.
I guess I'm used to gauntlets where posters are welcome to join in the challenge with their own flavor/modifications, and I certainly prefer them (to the point where I assumed that this would be 'that' sort of thread, whoops). I've been privy to some really inspiring discussions on those threads which probably wouldn't have happened if it was do x, only x, and if you do y you're not welcome here.
Can't wait to see how you go, herbert derp, because it really is an awesome goal.
-
I guess I'm used to gauntlets where posters are welcome to join in the challenge with their own flavor/modifications, and I certainly prefer them (to the point where I assumed that this would be 'that' sort of thread, whoops). I've been privy to some really inspiring discussions on those threads which probably wouldn't have happened if it was do x, only x, and if you do y you're not welcome here.
Yeah, like I said, I see both sides of it. I guess to me what you're describing is more of a personal goal. And a gauntlet is a specific challenge to do something.
Some gauntlets are more open-ended (e.g. "reduce your electric bill"), and can be tweaked similar to a personal goal and fit everyone, some are more specific (e.g. hit this number).
If it was a "reduce your electric bill by X%" everyone could do that. If it was "reduce your electric bill to an average of $20/mo," most couldn't, but that's okay, it's a challenge for those who can attempt it.
If someone threw down a gauntlet to run a marathon, for example. That's a specific goal. One that may not be feasible for some (or too easy for others - I know people who are going to spend way less than 10k this year). It'd be great for them to make their own goal (say, running a 5k). But it's disingenuous to then say they met the gauntlet (which they modified for themselves). They met a goal, not the gauntlet thrown down.
So some more narrow ones you just have to shrug, say "I can't do that, but I tip my hat to those of you that can" and set your own goal, hopefully inspired by them.
Hope that all made sense explaining what I meant. :)
-
Hmmm. I see your points, arebelspy (though I'm honestly really interested in understanding why COL adjustments are so distasteful when comparing different countries - because I find that really interesting and potentially hugely problematic or at least challenging!).
The COL adjustment is an issue because COL isn't so much country dependent as it is geographically dependent. Essentially everyone could invoke the COL adjustment, making the $10,000 part of the challenge pointless.
-
Interesting points. For me, I think key is that the OP referenced the spending as being near the poverty line for a household of one. So I would suggest, for those households seeking to join in that have more than one person in the household, to keep to the spirit of the challenge by spending 87% or less of your applicable household size below (adjusted by US, Hawaii and Alaska already). Trickier is other countries...do you go by your own countries poverty line as defined by that country or just a currency equivalency?...
http://www.irp.wisc.edu/faqs/faq1.htm
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Poverty Guidelines, 2013
Persons in Family/Household Annual Income:
48 Contiguous States and D.C. Annual Income:
1 $11,490
2 15,510
3 19,530
4 23,550
5 27,570
6 31,590
7 35,610
8 39,630
>8 persons Add $4,020 for each additional person Add $5,030 for each additional person Add $4,620 for each additional person
Our household of 2 will not be meeting this challenge ($13,499, ETA: 87% of $15,510), however I'll enjoy watching everyone else do so. A family of 5 would need to spend below $23,995 by this interpretation.
ETA: Note, for simplicity sake, folks might consider aspiring to simply spending below the applicable poverty line.
-
Interesting points. For me, I think key is that the OP referenced the spending as being near the poverty line for a household of one. So I would suggest, for those households seeking to join in that have more than one person in the household, to keep to the spirit of the challenge by spending 87% or less of your applicable household size below (adjusted by US, Hawaii and Alaska already). Trickier is other countries...do you go by your own countries poverty line as defined by that country or just a currency equivalency?...
I like this interpretation, it is much better than the 10K per person interpretation. As sol pointed out,
It's also a little easier for family with three kids to live on $50k than it is for a single dude to live on $10k. Kids don't cost nearly as much to keep alive as does a working adult, and they're tax deductions to boot.
I think this interpretation keeps with the spirit of the challenge.
-
I like that CommonCents.
Where did you get the 13499 number?
Our household of 2 will not be meeting this challenge ($13,499), however I'll enjoy watching everyone else do so. A family of 5 would need to spend below $23,995 by this interpretation.
I'm seeing (for 2 people): 15,510 (lower 48) 19,380 (Alaska) 17,850 (Hawaii)
Here's what I found for Australia (already in AUD, naturally): http://melbourneinstitute.com/downloads/publications/Poverty%20Lines/Poverty-lines-Australia-June2013.pdf
You can use the chart to look up what the line is for you depending on your circumstance (how many people in your house, how many working, etc.)
-
I like that CommonCents.
Where did you get the 13499 number?
Our household of 2 will not be meeting this challenge ($13,499), however I'll enjoy watching everyone else do so. A family of 5 would need to spend below $23,995 by this interpretation.
I'm seeing (for 2 people): 15,510 (lower 48) 19,380 (Alaska) 17,850 (Hawaii)
Here's what I found for Australia (already in AUD, naturally): http://melbourneinstitute.com/downloads/publications/Poverty%20Lines/Poverty-lines-Australia-June2013.pdf
You can use the chart to look up what the line is for you depending on your circumstance (how many people in your house, how many working, etc.)
OP posted he'd spend $10,000, which I calculated was 87% of the poverty line for his household. ($10,000/$11,490) $13,499 is 87% of $15,510. But if you wish to keep it simple, simply spend under the poverty line.
-
Ahh, got it. I figure he picked 10k because it's a nice round number, rather than because it was 87% of the poverty line. So maybe the gauntlet should be "the next nice round number below your poverty line." So maybe 15,000 for the family of two (15,510 poverty line for a family of two)?
-
The thing is, if nobody posted here who wasn't adapting the quantlet, and/or stating that they already meet the requirements, and/or saying "gee, I can't do that"... would we even have one reply so far? I like discussion (even debate!) and if gauntlets were going to be restricted that much then we wouldn't get to see nearly as many interesting discussions on this site.
I like the poverty line idea, though given that I live with a partner and keep separate finances I'm not sure which category I really fit in. Single not including housing (which I think is the best description of my financial situation) is $330 a week, or $17,160 a year (very close to my $16k calculation from the COL adjustment)... I spent something around $20k last year and as stated, I'm hoping to spend $12k this year, which is a significant push for me.
-
Ahh, got it. I figure he picked 10k because it's a nice round number, rather than because it was 87% of the poverty line. So maybe the gauntlet should be "the next nice round number below your poverty line." So maybe 15,000 for the family of two (15,510 poverty line for a family of two)?
I'm sure he did, I was just trying to equate it because it seemed above in the thread there were some concerns about drifting too far from the original challenge. But "next nice round figure below your poverty line" sounds good to me.
-
How many people are in my household? There's me, plus two kids who are with me 1/3 of the time, plus a kid who's away at college but I pay his expenses.
Do we include all expenses, or just after tax? Child support?
Enquiring minds...
-
I... don't even meet the basic requirements to tackle this gauntlet: $12k purely on renting the apartment, and that's not going away any time this year.. If I included my roommate in the equation, his unmustachian habits would up the expenses by at least $40k, so yeah, I can't even loophole my way through this one..
To anyone tackling this gauntlet, you are awe-inspiring!
If only I could throw away my stuff and live in a van down by the river...
-
Interesting points. For me, I think key is that the OP referenced the spending as being near the poverty line for a household of one. So I would suggest, for those households seeking to join in that have more than one person in the household, to keep to the spirit of the challenge by spending 87% or less of your applicable household size below (adjusted by US, Hawaii and Alaska already). Trickier is other countries...do you go by your own countries poverty line as defined by that country or just a currency equivalency?...
http://www.irp.wisc.edu/faqs/faq1.htm
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Poverty Guidelines, 2013
Persons in Family/Household Annual Income:
48 Contiguous States and D.C. Annual Income:
1 $11,490
2 15,510
3 19,530
4 23,550
5 27,570
6 31,590
7 35,610
8 39,630
>8 persons Add $4,020 for each additional person Add $5,030 for each additional person Add $4,620 for each additional person
Our household of 2 will not be meeting this challenge ($13,499, ETA: 87% of $15,510), however I'll enjoy watching everyone else do so. A family of 5 would need to spend below $23,995 by this interpretation.
ETA: Note, for simplicity sake, folks might consider aspiring to simply spending below the applicable poverty line.
I would like to try that. Family of six = $27483.30 (87% of poverty line)
Not sure we'll make it, but it would be interesting to try.
-
One month down! January was a month where I was somewhat free with my spending, and it shows in how close I got to hitting my budget.
January
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $161.28
Total: $661.28
Total spent so far for 2014: $661.28
Average monthly spending for 2014: $661.28
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,935.36
Let's see if I can keep that last number under $8,000!
-
I hit 10,600 last year so I'm going to try and join you. My life situation is drastically different than last year but I at least know that it is possible.
-
CommonCents, your comments are exactly what I got out the OP's challenge as well.
I won't be joining this challenge, but our family has spent at or below the poverty level(apart from medical insurance premiums) for 10 of the last 13 years. It's a great spending strategy to get ahead financially.
This year, we(family of five) are budgeted at 20% over the poverty guidelines and will most likely spend less. That extra 20% is almost all in the vacation budget. After all these years of just visits to relatives, we are finally buying a pop-up camper this year and seeing the country on "real" vacations. It's going to be a big part of our homeschooling education plan. :)
Good luck OP!
-
My only note/question on this awesome challenge is this: aren't people and families around the poverty line eligible for several kinds of financial assistance (like with buying food, and often subsidized housing), and then this doesn't get counted into the challenge?
*I am in no way advocating taking money away or giving more to any socioeconomic group.
But doesn't this make the challenge EVEN MORE difficult?
I'd like to try doing 200% of the poverty level, but still it is still considerably a large percentage of mortgage payments.
-
One month down! January was a month where I was somewhat free with my spending, and it shows in how close I got to hitting my budget.
January
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $161.28
Total: $661.28
Total spent so far for 2014: $661.28
Average monthly spending for 2014: $661.28
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,935.36
Let's see if I can keep that last number under $8,000!
Wow I'm really impressed! My rent is $480 and I was thinking there's no way I could meet this challenge. Can you elucidate your expenses/living situation for us? How do you only spend $160/month, ie. how do you eat and pay utilities and get around and clothe yourself?
-
My only note/question on this awesome challenge is this: aren't people and families around the poverty line eligible for several kinds of financial assistance (like with buying food, and often subsidized housing), and then this doesn't get counted into the challenge?
*I am in no way advocating taking money away or giving more to any socioeconomic group.
But doesn't this make the challenge EVEN MORE difficult?
I'd like to try doing 200% of the poverty level, but still it is still considerably a large percentage of mortgage payments.
Sure, but 1) not everyone qualifies (e.g. a pregnant woman in my state qualifies for health care that a man wouldn't qualify for), 2) people may not know about those programs, 3) the programs can be hard to get into/navigate (housing I think is particularly difficult to obtain) 4) due to pride/self-sufficiency desires, even qualified and knowledgable families may not apply and 5) this is a benchmark, so you can set your own goals, as you have done.
-
My only note/question on this awesome challenge is this: aren't people and families around the poverty line eligible for several kinds of financial assistance (like with buying food, and often subsidized housing), and then this doesn't get counted into the challenge?
*I am in no way advocating taking money away or giving more to any socioeconomic group.
But doesn't this make the challenge EVEN MORE difficult?
I'd like to try doing 200% of the poverty level, but still it is still considerably a large percentage of mortgage payments.
In addition to CommonCent's points, there's also the difference between spending at poverty level and making poverty level. Those making poverty level money aren't just in need of subsidies because they might not have enough to buy food but also because otherwise they have nothing extra to put towards emergency savings and retirement.
And in your case, you have a mortgage and someone at that income level definitely wouldn't be able to get together the downpayment or be approved for the loan, so you could consider that a subsidy if it helps?
edited for attribution error
-
While I spend more than $10k on rent/year, I'm following this thread carefully. I'm looking forward to everyone's progress...and please post tips for those of us with spending 'problems.' :)
-
Well for what its worth I'm inspired. I've got no chance at 10k, or 100%US poverty level for family size, but the idea of a hard cap is inspiring.
-
Since rent is covered by my employer, I should definitely be able to manage this, but since I haven't been tracking my expenses for very long, I can't be sure. So I'll take this as a benchmark challenge.
You can easily, Ian. Last year I spent ~$7842.09 (by today's rate; $8,015.64 USD when I converted back in December), and that includes over $1250 for my and my boyfriend's tickets to Texas. Your spending is even lower than mine!
I'm in, fully aware that I'm cheating by having no rent anyway. :-p
Edited for more accurate exchange rate!
Edited again: I just realized that the exchange rates might make this almost impossible for me to keep track of. Hrmm... I'll still keep an eye on things for a rough estimate. I'd actually like to spend less this year than I did last year...
-
Alright, assuming that employer-provided housing in Korea costs about 400,000w per month (~$375 USD), that's something like $4,500 a year.
I spent $8,000 last year, and if we pretended I had paid for rent as well, I'm at $12,500.
This challenge can actually be a major challenge for me if I push myself to spend less than $5,500 (+ $4,500 magic-free-housing = $10,000).
Over a year, that would give me about $460 per month, which is on par with my average months in 2013. However, not all months are average, and I'm already off to a rough start.
January 2014: $898.51 (international trip, which required a catsitter)
February 2014: already higher than average because of $587 owed in taxes and upcoming move
Can I spend ~$380.15 every other month for the rest of this year to meet Herbert Derp's challenge? It's certainly worth a shot! I'll try to remember to pop in here once a month to track progress.
I think a more interesting question will be: how long until I pass $5,500? :-p
-
Wow, only 8,000 spending (not counting the free housing)?! That's pretty awesome. How much is your annual pay there?
-
Wow, only 8,000 spending (not counting the free housing)?! That's pretty awesome. How much is your annual pay there?
Low :-p
Annual gross base pay at the job I'm transitioning out of (last day was yesterday!) comes to ~$25,971.60 USD. My net income last year ONLY from teaching (I had other side gigs), at today's exchange rate, is ~$27,683.34.
I have maybe $4,500 in a pension scheme (4.5%, fully matched by employer) that will be cashed out and given to me when I leave the country, no matter what age I am. My new job will be under a difference pension scheme which has even higher matches, but not until I've been in it 5 years. If I leave before my contributions are doubled at the 5 year mark, I only get back what I put in. And this month I'll be receiving severance pay, equal to one month's pay per year worked (2) at the rate of the average of my last three month's pay, or about $4,328.60.
But to consider that I only made $22,000 gross teaching at an American public university full-time before I moved to Korea, I've certainly put myself in a much better situation to save money!
-
Oh bummer, I thought the pay in South Korea was pretty decent.
Guess not. =/
It is something the wife and I are considering doing as a transition to FIRE in two years or so.
-
Oh bummer, I thought the pay in South Korea was pretty decent.
Guess not. =/
It is something the wife and I are considering doing as a transition to FIRE in two years or so.
Well it's the most I've ever made! :-p And compared to other places in Asia for teaching English, it pays well. The Middle East pays even better, but the lifestyle leaves a lot of people unhappy.
I've been thinking about perhaps making the scary jump to a new career. I have an M.A. in English, so I've just stuck to teaching. I don't even know what else I could do, and I have a tendency to be complacent. Buuuutttt... boyfriend lives in California and doesn't want to live in Korea. Hrmm.
Sorry for derailing this thread!
-
Oh bummer, I thought the pay in South Korea was pretty decent.
Guess not. =/
It is something the wife and I are considering doing as a transition to FIRE in two years or so.
I think it gets that reputation at least partially because of the lower cost of living, which means people who aren't very conscious of their spending feel like they have more. For example, I've seen people talk about saving 10k in a year like that's an astonishing amount (and it is compared to the margin on their lifestyles elsewhere). For this forum, the low gross salary is generally going to be the bigger factor.
If you get the right position, it can be a comfortable semi-retired position, though. And right now, it does seem to be the best paying ESL job you can get without substantial experience.
This challenge can actually be a major challenge for me if I push myself to spend less than $5,500 (+ $4,500 magic-free-housing = $10,000).
Good thought; I'll make this my new benchmark. Looking at January, my standard spending could meet this goal, but I don't have the numbers to predict unusual months.
-
Oh bummer, I thought the pay in South Korea was pretty decent.
Guess not. =/
It is something the wife and I are considering doing as a transition to FIRE in two years or so.
I think it gets that reputation at least partially because of the lower cost of living, which means people who aren't very conscious of their spending feel like they have more. For example, I've seen people talk about saving 10k in a year like that's an astonishing amount (and it is compared to the margin on their lifestyles elsewhere). For this forum, the low gross salary is generally going to be the bigger factor.
If you get the right position, it can be a comfortable semi-retired position, though. And right now, it does seem to be the best paying ESL job you can get without substantial experience.
That makes sense. Middle East is another option we looked at, and that pays more around 60k gross from what we've seen. 25 is pretty low.
-
I teach at an international high school here in Shanghai, China and can say that I've had three important benefits from teaching abroad (besides enjoying the work!):
Living rent-free (employer-provided housing)
Not paying US taxes (My employer handles my Chinese taxes but I don't earn enough to also owe US taxes).
Lower cost of living - Shanghai can be extravagantly expensive (with $15 cocktails, $200 steaks, etc.) if you aim to impress, or, if you do things right, it can be a very cheap place to live.
So while my salary wouldn't sound too impressive to those back home, the amount I'm able to save more than makes up for it (and I also have some side gigs). Basically my only expenses are food and entertainment/travel. Cooking at home and having cheap hobbies means that building my stache here has been relatively easy and I still find myself living what I would consider an incredibly luxurious lifestyle (especially compared to many of Shanghai's residents). That said, I see many of my colleagues who spend just about every penny earned eating out every night, drinking at trendy bars, taking taxis everywhere, and buying loads of "stuff". These are usually younger teachers who suddenly have "disposable" income for the first time and lifestyle inflation just takes over. Many even further inflate their lifestyle by tutoring afterschool and then spending that money too! I don't keep really careful track of yearly totals, but it's probably somewhere in the ballpark of $10,000/year and that includes a decent amount of travel for holidays/summer vacation. I could certainly get it lower if I eliminated travel, alcohol, and some imported food items, but I see no need to be that strict.
-
Oh--piggybacking Ian's use of the term "semi-retired", I should also mention that at my new job (university--requires M.A. and experience), I'll have 20 weeks vacation. Camps taught during vacation = overtime.
It's a good gig. My only problem is that my current boyfriend doesn't want to live in Korea... He's got me thinking about career changes just to live in America and continue my path toward ER.
-
That makes sense. Middle East is another option we looked at, and that pays more around 60k gross from what we've seen. 25 is pretty low.
I've had my eye on the Middle East as well, but I'm hoping to get several years with a single school and a solid recommendation before I move (and I'm pretty happy with the amount of free time). 60k is on the higher end of what I've seen, but maybe you're doing better research than I am. If you pursue this more, make a thread.
-
I'm in, although I won't be counting expenses that are a result of being a freelancer and are tax deductible.
Rent - $100 / month (I stay in my car, campgrounds, and with friends/family)
Food - $200 / month
Gas - $200 / month
Car Insurance - $80 / month
Misc - $20 / month
Health Insurance - ???, I really need to get on this and get myself coverage, not sure what it'll cost yet.
Car Maintenance - ???, This could ruin me, hopefully I have time to DIY anything
Climbing Shoes + Rope - $300
$600 * 12 = $7200 + $300 = $7500
So, if health insurance doesn't end up costing too much, and my car doesn't have any major issues I should be all set.
-
That makes sense. Middle East is another option we looked at, and that pays more around 60k gross from what we've seen. 25 is pretty low.
I've had my eye on the Middle East as well, but I'm hoping to get several years with a single school and a solid recommendation before I move (and I'm pretty happy with the amount of free time). 60k is on the higher end of what I've seen, but maybe you're doing better research than I am. If you pursue this more, make a thread.
I guess that is on the higher end. http://www.teachaway.com/teaching-jobs-abroad/elementary-teachers-abu-dhabi-public-schools-3
I'd be fairly confident in getting it though (but I have a masters and multiple years experience).
And secondary (think: high school) positions I've seen can pay more.
(Okay, I'll go back OT, just wanted to leave that link for you in case you wanted to follow up. There is a thread already about teaching overseas, somewhere.)
-
Climbing Shoes + Rope - $300
I'm sure you already have shoes and rope, so do you really go through them fast enough that you need to buy $300 worth every year? Or are they just so expensive that the $300 is like one pair of shoes and 2 ropes?
Also I'm sure like 2/3 of that food budget is oranges, right? ;)
-
My only note/question on this awesome challenge is this: aren't people and families around the poverty line eligible for several kinds of financial assistance (like with buying food, and often subsidized housing), and then this doesn't get counted into the challenge?
*I am in no way advocating taking money away or giving more to any socioeconomic group.
But doesn't this make the challenge EVEN MORE difficult?
I'd like to try doing 200% of the poverty level, but still it is still considerably a large percentage of mortgage payments.
No, I don't believe it makes the challenge more difficult. For instance, my employer pays for my healthcare, transportation, and a significant amount of my food. Poor people would not have access to these benefits.
-
Climbing Shoes + Rope - $300
I'm sure you already have shoes and rope, so do you really go through them fast enough that you need to buy $300 worth every year? Or are they just so expensive that the $300 is like one pair of shoes and 2 ropes?
Also I'm sure like 2/3 of that food budget is oranges, right? ;)
Ya, I typically go through about 1.5 shoes($150) and .5($150) of a rope per year.
Hah, ya, but I found a place here in LA selling 3lbs for $1 so maybe it'll go down.
-
Month two is down! I think I did quite well this month, aside from blowing $55 on videogames (44% of my non-rent spending, lol).
February
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $121.36
Total: $621.36
Total spent so far for 2014: $1,282.64
Average monthly spending for 2014: $641.32
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,695.84
-
What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line.
-
What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line.
July-ish for me, not counting giant tax bill. Otherwise April. :P
-
What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line.
Depends whether we have to buy a vehicle this spring. If not, June or July. If so, whenever we write the check for the car, pretty much. Paying back the money we owed my parents on building supplies has front-loaded our expenditures this year (done in April).
-
This site is interesting and relevant to our earlier discussion re: poverty line in various areas.
http://livingwage.mit.edu/
It has the living wage and poverty level broken down by location, as well as number and type of household members.
For Las Vegas, NV, it says the living wage is 14.81/hr for 2 adults, poverty is $7.00
It says the living wage annual income required is $30,813. Changing that to the poverty level (7/14.81 * 30813) gives 14,563.88 annual spending at poverty level for 2 adults in Las Vegas, NV.
Seems reasonable.
Posted about the site in this thread for further discussion: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachianism-around-the-web/calculate-your-locations-living-wage/
(Edit: Typo.)
-
What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line.
April's rent due on April 1st should bring me and my fiancée just about exactly up to the 10k line.
-
What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line.
Somewhere around July for me.
-
My hat's off to you guys for doing this challenge. My mortgage is $900/mo so I won't be able to this year, although I'm downsizing and changing payment so I only pay half the mortgage on the next house (fiancee is going to pay for half rather than me paying all of it), so in 2015 I could probably tighten my belt and shoot for $10K. The two of us reaching the equivalent ratio to the poverty level would be tougher.
As for the crossover point, mine would be early May since I paid $3,300 for a new car. If not for that and the down payment on our new house, it would be early July.
-
What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line.
Crossed it this week :(
-
Alright, assuming that employer-provided housing in Korea costs about 400,000w per month (~$375 USD), that's something like $4,500 a year.
I spent $8,000 last year, and if we pretended I had paid for rent as well, I'm at $12,500.
This challenge can actually be a major challenge for me if I push myself to spend less than $5,500 (+ $4,500 magic-free-housing = $10,000).
Over a year, that would give me about $460 per month, which is on par with my average months in 2013. However, not all months are average, and I'm already off to a rough start.
January 2014: $898.51 (international trip, which required a catsitter)
February 2014: already higher than average because of $587 owed in taxes and upcoming move
Can I spend ~$380.15 every other month for the rest of this year to meet Herbert Derp's challenge? It's certainly worth a shot! I'll try to remember to pop in here once a month to track progress.
I think a more interesting question will be: how long until I pass $5,500? :-p
I'm certainly not doing well with this modified challenge to see if I can spend less than $5,500! I've spent so much because of my tax bill and moving expenses, as expected. So far this year, I've spent $2,611.46! But I've also improved my quality of life (food), so it makes sense that I'm drifting further away from the poverty line.
-
I saw this and thought, 10,000 thats a lot of money to spend in one year!
Here are my monthly expenses that don't change each month.
1) Internet 100yuan = 16.40 at present exchange rate
That's it.
Free apartment, free phone (I actually make money as they give me more than I spend on my cheap Nokia brick), no car, no car insurance, I get cheapo health insurance from the university.
So I spend maybe two hundred dollars a month, total. But thats from spending money in previous years to buy the things that I do with my free time: free weights, squat rack, bench, board games, basketball, bball shoes, running shoes, lifting shoes. But those are all old now and have already been used so many times their price/use ratio is very low.
I dont drink, dont smoke, cook all my own meals (mostly rice cooker and then some veggies stir fried, eggs and veggies for breakfast).
-
I teach at an international high school here in Shanghai, China and can say that I've had three important benefits from teaching abroad (besides enjoying the work!):
Living rent-free (employer-provided housing)
Not paying US taxes (My employer handles my Chinese taxes but I don't earn enough to also owe US taxes).
Lower cost of living - Shanghai can be extravagantly expensive (with $15 cocktails, $200 steaks, etc.) if you aim to impress, or, if you do things right, it can be a very cheap place to live.
So while my salary wouldn't sound too impressive to those back home, the amount I'm able to save more than makes up for it (and I also have some side gigs). Basically my only expenses are food and entertainment/travel. Cooking at home and having cheap hobbies means that building my stache here has been relatively easy and I still find myself living what I would consider an incredibly luxurious lifestyle (especially compared to many of Shanghai's residents). That said, I see many of my colleagues who spend just about every penny earned eating out every night, drinking at trendy bars, taking taxis everywhere, and buying loads of "stuff". These are usually younger teachers who suddenly have "disposable" income for the first time and lifestyle inflation just takes over. Many even further inflate their lifestyle by tutoring afterschool and then spending that money too! I don't keep really careful track of yearly totals, but it's probably somewhere in the ballpark of $10,000/year and that includes a decent amount of travel for holidays/summer vacation. I could certainly get it lower if I eliminated travel, alcohol, and some imported food items, but I see no need to be that strict.
I find that if you aren't in the usual expat/bourgeois social circles you really can save a lot of money. You have to not be afraid to be different and weird though. My co-workers are always asking me if I'm not bored never travelling during vacations but just staying home. I think it's better to keep some information asymmetry and not talk about how busy I am with side projects during these breaks!
-
1) Internet 100yuan = 16.40 at present exchange rate
That's it.
Free apartment, free phone (I actually make money as they give me more than I spend on my cheap Nokia brick), no car, no car insurance, I get cheapo health insurance from the university.
Sounds pretty similar to my situation, though it could also be a study grant - what exacty are you doing for this setup?
-
I saw this and thought, 10,000 thats a lot of money to spend in one year!
Here are my monthly expenses that don't change each month.
1) Internet 100yuan = 16.40 at present exchange rate
That's it.
Free apartment, free phone (I actually make money as they give me more than I spend on my cheap Nokia brick), no car, no car insurance, I get cheapo health insurance from the university.
So I spend maybe two hundred dollars a month, total. But thats from spending money in previous years to buy the things that I do with my free time: free weights, squat rack, bench, board games, basketball, bball shoes, running shoes, lifting shoes. But those are all old now and have already been used so many times their price/use ratio is very low.
I dont drink, dont smoke, cook all my own meals (mostly rice cooker and then some veggies stir fried, eggs and veggies for breakfast).
Did you buy all that stuff on Taobao? I currently use a gym but I would rather lift at home.
-
1) Internet 100yuan = 16.40 at present exchange rate
That's it.
Free apartment, free phone (I actually make money as they give me more than I spend on my cheap Nokia brick), no car, no car insurance, I get cheapo health insurance from the university.
Sounds pretty similar to my situation, though it could also be a study grant - what exacty are you doing for this setup?
I work at a pretty good university in NE China. Its pretty standard as far as benefits. Also includes free air travel back home each year.
-
It's part of your compensation package. IMO the amount you spend would be the equivalent to what you would spend had you a different job that paid you in cash and let you buy your own accommodations, food, etc. You'll need to figure that out if you ever want to FIRE. Most of us have the same issue on a smaller scale, re: healthcare.
-
It's part of your compensation package. IMO the amount you spend would be the equivalent to what you would spend had you a different job that paid you in cash and let you buy your own accommodations, food, etc. You'll need to figure that out if you ever want to FIRE. Most of us have the same issue on a smaller scale, re: healthcare.
Yeah. Income and expenses dont mean much, its all about quality of life and how much money is saved. I save about 30k a year depending on what I do with the winter holiday (work, relax at home, or travel). 30k really isnt very much and its going to take me a LONG time to FIRE on that.
Even bigger problem: China is not for me longterm, its really polluted. I won't be able to earn much of anything once I go back to the Midwest where Im from, luckily housing is super cheap. So hopefully, buy a cheap house, renovate, and buy some other cheap houses and rent them out. Its good to save 30k a year (my family is poor so this seems like a lot to me) but I realize its not much and sadly it seems like the best I will do, since once I go back its 30k a year jobs, minus taxes, minus expenses. Ack! Majoring in History was the worst decision of my life so far. Thanks mom and dad for telling me to study what I liked! =)
-
I work at a pretty good university in NE China. Its pretty standard as far as benefits. Also includes free air travel back home each year.
I teach in South Korea, and I'm interested in comparing benefits. You mention housing, insurance, and a phone stipend - anything else? Aside from that, what's your salary in raw yuan? What about workload?
-
March results are in! To get a more accurate estimate of my extrapolated spending for the year, I have created a new target for abnormal spending since I know I have a couple one-off expenses coming up in the next few months.
March
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $109.82
Total: $609.82
Total spent so far for 2014: $1,892.46
Average monthly spending for 2014: $630.82
Abnormal spending target: $350.00
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,919.84
-
March results are in! To get a more accurate estimate of my extrapolated spending for the year, I have created a new target for abnormal spending since I know I have a couple one-off expenses coming up in the next few months.
March
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $109.82
Total: $609.82
Total spent so far for 2014: $1,892.46
Average monthly spending for 2014: $630.82
Abnormal spending target: $350.00
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,919.84
You, Mr. H. Derp, are crushing it. 130 bucks a month outside of rent/internet. Keep up the good fight! I dont remember what kind of job you had but it seems like it was pretty good. At the end of the experiment have you considered sharing how much money you saved during 2014?
-
I'll be posting periodic updates about my net worth, but for this topic I'm focused on spending. You can follow my journey to FI in this other topic: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/financial-independence-at-27/
-
My spending in 2013 was less than 10 000 euro (including getting married with wedding ring and party ;)).
I moved to the USA recently. We need to do our best to spend more than 1000 dollar/month (living in the south, which is cheap).
-
March results are in! To get a more accurate estimate of my extrapolated spending for the year, I have created a new target for abnormal spending since I know I have a couple one-off expenses coming up in the next few months.
March
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $109.82
Total: $609.82
Total spent so far for 2014: $1,892.46
Average monthly spending for 2014: $630.82
Abnormal spending target: $350.00
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,919.84
I'm so blown away by your frugality skills. Here I am patting myself on the back for keeping me and my wife's grocery bill under $300 this month..!
-
I second that! It's great to read such tiny numbers. I was on a (wonderful AND mostly-frugal) holiday in Jan and Feb so my numbers are a little skewed due to getting back in the rhythm of things, but my total for March looks reasonable at $1622.84 AUD, which is a little higher than the 1370 a month someone mentioned upthread. This is taken straight from my bank statement so it's going to be a little inaccurate - this doesn't include any electricity or gas since it sits between the pay period, but I think over the next few months I'm going to log my spendings with a little more depth and see where I can cut down.
So far for April I'm looking at $1358 (that's including my quarterly elec bill!) with no plans to splurge crazily over the next week. Here's hoping for an even thriftier May!
-
Hats off to everyone to accepting this challenge (especially those without employer subsidized living expenses)! I am especially impressed by Herbert Derp.
-
I like Nikki's modified-for-housing plan. When I was paying rent it was $350/mo with utilities and my share of internet, so I need to get under $5,800. Ouch. 1/1/14 through 4/28/14 I've spent $2,700, or ~$700/mo on average (monthly spending has been on the decline though!). So I have 3k leftover for the next 8 months; $375/mo. Not convinced I will manage this, but certainly worth a shot!
-
The modified-for-housing plan doesn't work as well for me, simply because my employer-provided housing is nicer than I need. I wouldn't pay for a place this nice if it were my own money (I'm estimating around $800/month, which would leave only $400 for everything else). But it's a take it or leave it situation. In other words, take the free housing or decline and get nothing else in exchange. Believe it or not, there are actually teachers who turn down the free housing so they can live closer to downtown bars/restaurants (maybe 10-12km away) but I guess that's a topic for the anti-mustachian section.
This discussion has led me to keep more careful track of my spending this year (and closer tracking means less spending), so thanks to everyone for the extra motivation. I've always been frugal but having an overall "spend less than x" goal has been helpful.
-
(I'm estimating around $800/month, which would leave only $400 for everything else). But it's a take it or leave it situation.
I think it might be more like $33 :) A challenge even for HD, perhaps
-
Right, I meant $400/year leftover. Living on $33/month probably isn't something to aspire to even if it is possible :)
-
April turned out to be one of my most frugal months yet! This was mostly due to the large amount of food I bought last month which is still not completely eaten. I only made one grocery shopping trip this month, and didn't need to buy any of my staples. I'm worried about the months to come, since it looks like my 10-15% rent increase is going hit my budget pretty hard (I still don't know the specifics, landlord is a huge procrastinator).
In other news, I got a $150 bonus for a new checking account this month, plus was able to employ some "manufactured spending" tactics to get a $75 bonus from Discover for "spending" $1,000. I have also been enjoying a cashback rate of a little over 6% on my grocery purchases, by exploiting my $0.10 per-purchase cashback with many small transactions.
I also got a raise, and although it won't save my budget from ruin once my rent increases, it will at least allow me to preserve my savings rate. Finally, though sheer luck I was able to avoid a one-off expense I had been planning for this month, so I was able to adjust my abnormal spending target for the year.
April
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $28.87
Total: $528.87
Total spent so far for 2014: $2,421.33
Average monthly spending for 2014: $605.33
Abnormal spending target: $250.00
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,513.99
I think it might be more like $33 :) A challenge even for HD, perhaps
:P
-
What does abnormal spending target mean?
Also, once your landlord does get to telling you the rate increase...try to negotiate it. Point out it's a large increase, suggest a 5% increase, offer to do something around the place instead, etc. Don't accept it for a given!
-
Abnormal spending means anticipated one-off spending which would skew my spending estimates if I didn't account for it. I think I'll change the name to "one-off spending target."
As for the rent increase, I've made my case but legally I don't have a say in it.
-
Right, I meant $400/year leftover. Living on $33/month probably isn't something to aspire to even if it is possible :)
Mark Boyle of the Moneyless Manifesto lived without money for a year. At that level, it's a statement. I think that it's something to aspire to, but it's highly unlikely that I personally would aspire to it. I actually like money a lot. The money doesn't have to be mine. (People frequently interpret this as "ch12 enjoys spending other people's money" but actually, I am just a bit dragon-ish and like to have the assurance of a hoard of gold somewhere nearby.)
-
I'm still under 10k but it doesn't look like I'll be able to stay under 10,000. I am currently at $ 6,583
-
Abnormal spending means anticipated one-off spending which would skew my spending estimates if I didn't account for it. I think I'll change the name to "one-off spending target."
As for the rent increase, I've made my case but legally I don't have a say in it.
Sort of off topic but there's a couple of dog stock companies in Australia that every year without fail come out with one-off writedowns and restructures. It's so predictable that they should stop with the pretences and include it in the normal operating profits, rather than disclose it outside of underlying results.
I've always had a laugh whenever I see the EBITDA numbers, or variations of it. It's like saying "Earnings Before All The Bad Stuff".
Not saying it applies to you Herbert Derp, but there's a case to be made that a lot of "one-off" expenses really are just normal expenses.
-
I'm out! I can't do it even with my low spending. Getting married in August and likely wiping out his debt ($8,000) in one go.
-
Man and I'm over here thinking I'll be doing awesome if I can keep it under $20k for the year lol.
Good stuff!!
-
My goal still seems plausible. This month felt like another expensive one, but I glanced at my totals and I'm going to come in under par for my target monthly average (unless these last few days are crazy somehow).
-
What happened to Mr. Herbert Derp?
-
He's been on, just not posting much.
Since this thread last came up, we've crossed the six month milestone. Based on my expenses for the first half of the year, I can say that the thread's goal seems... entirely plausible.
-
Just started the journey, so won't be doing this for 2014 calendar year.
But I am in
$30,980.70 - 7 people.
(I think I just soiled myself)
-
Love the concept of this challenge. So for MMM who has a family of 3 it would be 30K?
Here is a base budget to help everyone get well under the 10K mark
Monthly housing $250 (mort,ins,taxes, utes misc)
Monthly car $150
Monthly food $100
Misc $100
That puts you at roughly 7K per year a very doable college norm.
Most people will balk at the housing cost because "In my area blah, blah, blah."
So for MMM I just Zillowed 20 homes in Longmont in the $180,000 range. A 4% interest only mortgage would be $480 per month (144 borrowed with 20% down on 180)Insurance 45, taxes 65, utes 80.
Since he has a family of three that would put him well below $750 in total housing. (meaning he could sell his 400K home and live strictly of the interest of that alone for all the family expenses)
Alternative housing options - Live with your parents, family, friends, roomates or whatever. Live in an RV. Live in a one BR efficiency or rent a basement. (especially those single folks), move to a cheaper area. In most Midwestern small towns a person can buy a nice home for 50K. (this is a site about retiring right?)
BTW, I work with financially disadvantaged disabled people. Their monthly income is typically $700 per year and they are living pretty nice lives.
10K is a no brainer on paper, the problem will be overcoming your own ego and that of your spouse.
-
Their monthly income is typically $700 per year
ಠ_ಠ
-
Their monthly income is typically $700 per year
ಠ_ಠ
thanks for reading for content. looks like my editor was off that day. lol
-
Sounds hard to do without living in your car. But good luck to ya. And very good job if you can make it happen.
I'll try and challenge myself to only spend $17,500 in 2015. That would be a savings rate of about 72%, high enough for me.
-
We spent $60k just in federal tax in 2013 so I think we would fail out of the gate. Good luck though!
-
I'm at 9,700 for the year so it looks like I failed. Maybe next year
-
Mr Derp! This is one of my favorite threads. I keep hoping you pop up and post a 3 month update to keep the ball rolling.
-
Mr Derp! This is one of my favorite threads. I keep hoping you pop up and post a 3 month update to keep the ball rolling.
+1!!!
-
Just started the journey, so won't be doing this for 2014 calendar year.
But I am in
$30,980.70 - 7 people.
(I think I just soiled myself)
June: $2,709
July: $2,188
The average puts me just on pace!
-
Can only assume Herbert Derp has cut his internet and sold his laptop or starved to death.
A true Mustachian :(
-
Can only assume Herbert Derp has cut his internet and sold his laptop or starved to death.
A true Mustachian :(
Hah, the last line made me laugh.
He's out doing, and being.
A true Mustachian! :)
-
I couldn't do 10k because my rent puts me at 11.7k for a year alone. I have another $750 each month I put into a joint account that covers all bills/groceries except my phone (we invest most of it) == 20.7k right there. I've got bowling league and do like to sit around in a bar from time to time even though I don't buy consumer goods, etc etc, so I figure if I were to give myself a $300 monthly allowance to screw off, and round up to nearest 1k, I could see myself at $25k.
I live in a very high-cost area of living, but I could see myself living off of $25k. I will use the remaining months in 2014 to train myself and make a go of it in 2015 :)
EDIT: I hope they find Mr. Derp's body soon :(
-
I crossed $10k on July 2 :(
-
I'm still alive! Sorry I haven't updated in a while but I made a big move and am still getting settled into my new place--Herbert Derp is now a homeowner!
I'll post an update soon.
-
Nice! The home better have been less than $2k so you can still make the $10k goal. Don't let us down Herb ;)
-
I'm still alive! Sorry I haven't updated in a while but I made a big move and am still getting settled into my new place--Herbert Derp is now a homeowner!
I'll post an update soon.
Congrats! Looking forward to the update.
-
I'm still alive! Sorry I haven't updated in a while but I made a big move and am still getting settled into my new place--Herbert Derp is now a homeowner!
I'll post an update soon.
A homeowner! I didn't see that one coming.
I'm at ~$6,399.93 USD for the year so far. If I included an estimate of employer-provided housing costs like Ian and I considered early on in this gauntlet, I'm busted already, I think.
-
Hey, great to see you back!
-
After leaving my job I lost my financial tracking software so I can no longer break it down by category, but I've just reached a total of $8200 for the year so at the current rate I'll fail the challenge, but perhaps my expenses will be low enough in the last few months to still succeed.
-
After leaving my job I lost my financial tracking software so I can no longer break it down by category, but I've just reached a total of $8200 for the year so at the current rate I'll fail the challenge, but perhaps my expenses will be low enough in the last few months to still succeed.
Glad to see you back active! Curious where you're at nowadays. Still down in CA? Doing any online freelancing stuff?
Injuries all healed?
-
After leaving my job I lost my financial tracking software so I can no longer break it down by category, but I've just reached a total of $8200 for the year so at the current rate I'll fail the challenge, but perhaps my expenses will be low enough in the last few months to still succeed.
Glad to see you back active! Curious where you're at nowadays. Still down in CA? Doing any online freelancing stuff?
Injuries all healed?
Ya, I managed to get a gig in LA and got a months worth of work out of that. However, the injury wasn't healing up so I went back home to MA to rest up. Then spent the summer out west in CO/WY, but managed to get another finger injury and am now back in MA. However, this time I caught it much earlier and should be looking at just a month of recovery before heading back out again, most likely to KY for the fall!
-
Just started the journey, so won't be doing this for 2014 calendar year.
But I am in
$30,980.70 - 7 people.
(I think I just soiled myself)
June: $2,709
July: $2,188
The average puts me just on pace!
August = $2,471 - Still just on pace!
-
As promised, here is my update! After renting a room for a year, I bought a condo at the end of June in order to provide a stable long term housing solution and low cost of living. Although renting provided me greater financial flexibility, it came at the cost of my quality of living. When I realized that I could buy a condo next to my office and cut my commute from ~45 minutes of busing and walking to only eight minutes of walking, gain the privacy of having my own apartment all to myself, and still maintain my low cost of living, it was a no-brainer for me to make the move. The downside is that my investment in the condo has delayed my FI date by about a year, since a large part of my net worth has become home equity which doesn't provide any passive income as long as I live in the condo.
Three months in, I am loving my condo. My eight-minute commute on foot to work is saving me tons of time and I can sleep in later. I keep my apartment super clean at all times, which I couldn't do when I was sharing a house with other people. Plus, it is always quiet. No more getting woken up by my roommate's dog!
Without further ado, here are the numbers:
May
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Living: $79.94
Total: $579.94
June
Rent: $0.00 (My landlord kept my security deposit and personal freezer as payment for June)
Housing: $280.65 (closing costs minus credits)
Living: $61.60
Utilities: $0.00
Total: $342.25
July
Housing: $0.00 (July's dues were included in the closing costs)
Living: $90.45
Utilities: $0.00
Total: $90.45
August
Housing: $205.45 (HOA dues)
Living: $71.44
Utilities: $28.74 (electricity, includes one-time setup fee of $21.00)
Total: $305.63
Total spent so far for 2014: $3,729.60
Average monthly spending for 2014: $466.20
Estimated remaining one-off expenses: $620.66 (real estate taxes)
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $6,215.06
So looks like I am still on track to meet my goal. To think, when I started out this year I thought I would spend about $8,000 but now it's looking closer to $6,000!
-
Congrats! Nice minimal spending. I'm sure not having the long bus commute makes life significantly better in addition to you being able to save more per month now. How much did your condo end up costing?
-
Congrats! Do you see yourself staying there long term, after FIRE?
-
That is awesome! I am inspired to see how low I can get my spending rate over the rest of the year.
-
Congrats! Nice minimal spending. I'm sure not having the long bus commute makes life significantly better in addition to you being able to save more per month now. How much did your condo end up costing?
Mid 100K's
Congrats! Do you see yourself staying there long term, after FIRE?
Once I hit FIRE I will probably want to do some extensive traveling and settle down in a low cost of living area. Sadly, my condo is in a very high cost of living area so I doubt I will stay here. I'm only here for the jobs, but I plan to stay for a good ten years or so, so I'm glad I bought the place. I can always rent it out and create an extra source of income when it is time to leave, so I'm not worried.
-
Won't work for me, my credit card bill this month was $1500. That is all of our gas, groceries, supplies, dog food, cleaning supplies, some medical bills (we are both over 55), our night we spent at a nearby state park for our 39th anniversary, our Ting bill, and pretty much everything we bought for the month. I do it to get the cash back to use at Christmas. It doesn't include eating out which we do at least once a week or small stops at the grocery or walmart when I spend less than $10. Next bill won't be any better because my dog's annual visit to the vet and 6 months of heartworm medicine will be on that one and a few more medical bills. I've made some progress on cutting it down, but it seems like every month something comes up. But I do pay it off in full each month. My goal is to get it down to less than $900 each month. But it sounds like you are doing great. Good for you.
-
Awesome stuff Herb, real interesting twist, glad it's working out.
-
I feel like I am hijacking a little .... but to clarify the challenge I took. (Herbert Derp, let me know if you want me off your post)
I am a family of 7, read through this post, and what I interpreted the generally accepted challenge to be as 87% of the poverty table on the first page.
$35,610*.87 = $30,980.70/yr or $2,581.73/month
I only ran across this blog/lifestyle in May, so I started in June
June: $2,709
July: $2,188
August: $2,471
September: $2,622
Average = $2,497.50 - On pace!
-
30k annual for a family of 7 is pretty badass in my book!
-
Business as usual for September. Spending is up this month due to buying some furniture and trying new foods. I expect more furniture buying for October!
September
Housing: $205.45 (HOA dues)
Living: $122.28
Utilities: $8.93 (electricity)
Total: $336.66
Total spent so far for 2014: $4,076.26
Average monthly spending for 2014: $452.92
Estimated remaining one-off expenses: $620.66 (real estate taxes)
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $6,055.67
-
Awesome, just awesome Herbert Derp.
-
Business as usual for September. Spending is up this month due to buying some furniture and trying new foods. I expect more furniture buying for October!
September
Housing: $205.45 (HOA dues)
Living: $122.28
Utilities: $8.93 (electricity)
Total: $336.66
Total spent so far for 2014: $4,076.26
Average monthly spending for 2014: $452.92
Estimated remaining one-off expenses: $620.66 (real estate taxes)
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $6,055.67
Very cool. I'm ER'd and live on a small amount for my basic expenses too ($500 - $700/month on average) but can only do that because I have a paid off house with very low property taxes, free medical care thru the VA hospital (God help me if I actually ever need to use it :-)!), am single, no kids, no debts and most activities and hobbies are free or low cost. My passive income (pension) is approx. $1400/month (of which some is tax free so I am in the zero % tax bracket state (CA) and Fed), and the rest gets stashed for future use - house and car repairs, travel, etc... I didn't see where you had medical insurance and what that cost. Do you gets yours free, subsidized, thru an employer?
-
I get my healthcare through my employer. They take about $30/month from my paycheck to pay for it, but in return I get $41/month added to my HSA. So I guess they are paying me to have healthcare.
-
I made it 4 months keeping the average under the goal .... until October.
Main extra costs
- I did splurge before the other extra costs on $100 to make a set of gymnastics bars. It has been worth it, but ouch, it hurt the challenge.
- Plumbing emergency, cost $40 more to have someone come then to rent the roto-rooter .... watching them, it was worth it.
- Girls in gymnastics (once a year item they choose)
- 5 grocery trips vs. typical 4 (I also get 3 paychecks vs. 2, but doesn't help this challenge)
June: $2,709
July: $2,188
August: $2,471
September: $2,622
October: $3,626
Average: $2,723 (Goal is $2,582)
Time to tighten the belt and get the next 2 months back under control.
-
June: $2,709
July: $2,188
August: $2,471
September: $2,622
October: $3,626
November: $2,613
Average: $2,704 (Goal is $2,582)
Small progress in the right direction, but still over the goal ........
Not bailing yet, the effort is well worth it.
-
Results for October and November are in! I am in the home stretch now, and looks like I am going to come under $6,000 for the year. Starting November, I now have a water/sewer bill. The billing company is behind, so looks like they are doing two bills a month until they catch up. Once that happens, my utilities should go down. Also, now that its winter my electric bill is going to double to around $20 due to running the heater all the time.
October
Housing: $205.45 (HOA dues)
Living: $118.72
Utilities: $8.32 (electricity)
Total: $332.49
November
Housing: $205.45 (HOA dues)
Living: $39.25
Utilities: $49.45 (electricity/water/sewer)
Total: $294.15
Total spent so far for 2014: $4,702.90
Average monthly spending for 2014: $427.54
Estimated remaining one-off expenses: $682.32 (real estate taxes)
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $5,812.76
-
It seems like you aren't counting the cost of the condo in your yearly expenses. Is that right? Did you put $0 down?
Not giving you a hard time--just wondering.
-
It seems like you aren't counting the cost of the condo in your yearly expenses. Is that right? Did you put $0 down?
Not giving you a hard time--just wondering.
My closing costs summed up to $280.65, which was included in my recorded expenses. Since the condo is an appreciating asset, I'm counting it as an investment so the money I paid for it is not included in my expenses.
-
It seems like you aren't counting the cost of the condo in your yearly expenses. Is that right? Did you put $0 down?
Not giving you a hard time--just wondering.
My closing costs summed up to $280.65, which was included in my recorded expenses. Since the condo is an appreciating asset, I'm counting it as an investment so the money I paid for it is not included in my expenses.
Makes sense. Thanks.
-
Commenting so I can find this later and see how I compare! Dyk's numbers already put me to shame though.
-
Wow! What kind of savings rate will you have for the year? Very impressive!
-
Final update:
June: $2,709
July: $2,188
August: $2,471
September: $2,622
October: $3,626
November: $2,613
December: $3,039 (Christmas .....)
Average: $2,752 (Goal is $2,582)
Didn't make it, but will continue on in the 2015 challenge, the journey is well worth it.
(On a side note $400/month is charitable giving ..... this is one thing I don't want to work to shrink. It would be easy to shrink to zero. So I am wondering if my next goal needs to leave this out . . . .)
The real payoff, is that after a minimal savings rate (not tracked, but probably 2-3%) previously in my life, we saved at a rate of just over 40% after finding this blog! One income, 7 people. It is possible.
I owe you guys this: 'Thanks!!!!!!!'
-
It's over! What a year! I officially save (a lot) more in a month than I spend in a year. Next year is going to be a lot worse due to a special assessment, but I'll be fine.
December
Housing: $887.77 (HOA dues + taxes)
Living: $69.73
Utilities: $32.52 (electricity/water/sewer)
Total: $990.02
Total spent so far for 2014: $5,692.92
Average monthly spending for 2014: $474.41
-
Watching you kick your own challenge's ass has been inspirational. Thanks!
-
Herb Derp you're a legend!
-
Total spent [in] 2014: $5,692.92
...
I'm speechless.
Well done, sir.
-
It's over! What a year! I officially save (a lot) more in a month than I spend in a year. Next year is going to be a lot worse due to a special assessment, but I'll be fine.
Total spent so far for 2014: $5,692.92
Average monthly spending for 2014: $474.41
Amazing! Something to aspire to.
I just tallied up my spending for the year. Not including home renovations (i.e. the ones that made my new place livable) or my house purchase itself, I'm at $9838 for the year. Without non-reimbursable tuition fees, $8808, with tuition and home improvement, but not including the house: $11529. Now off to retract some statements elsewhere where I claimed my monthly spend was $550... *slouches in shame*
Thanks for the inspiration Señor Derp, and Dyk as well!
-
Herbert Derp, that is simply amazing!
(I love that we could both participate in this, coming from 2 very 'different' situations. I applaud you sir!)
-
Given my housing advantage, it's no surprise that I made this one without difficulty. Here's a more significant number: my expenses were 63% of the amount I estimated I'd spend per year. Nice to know I'm being conservative enough with my estimates.
-
Sweet read! I wanted to post some numbers from my single years (2007-2009) to compare, since it's very different now.
Rent: $480
Gas - $80 (max, mostly it was lower)
Elec - $25
Cell - $30
Internet - $12 (dial up)
Food - $100
Fun - $30
Car Gas - $30
Auto ins - $80
Cat - $13
=$880 (I didn't cover my own health insurance then, if I had to do it, it would have added around $200 a month! yikes!)
=$1080 with HI
=$10,560
=$12,960 with HI
Driving would have been less, but I volunteered with an animal rescue. Electricity was an estimation - usually it was less. I had the fun money but sometimes I saved it up for other bigger purchases. I had a gross salary of $15,000 at the time (net was around $13,000).
Sometimes wish I could get back to those days of spending! Now, we are around $31,000 for two people (although this is not that frugal and HI contributes $5,400 per year).
Good job to those who completed the challenge!