Spend less than $10,000 in 2014

[arebelspy]

That makes sense.  Middle East is another option we looked at, and that pays more around 60k gross from what we've seen.  25 is pretty low.

I've had my eye on the Middle East as well, but I'm hoping to get several years with a single school and a solid recommendation before I move (and I'm pretty happy with the amount of free time). 60k is on the higher end of what I've seen, but maybe you're doing better research than I am. If you pursue this more, make a thread.

I guess that is on the higher end.  http://www.teachaway.com/teaching-jobs-abroad/elementary-teachers-abu-dhabi-public-schools-3

I'd be fairly confident in getting it though (but I have a masters and multiple years experience).

And secondary (think: high school) positions I've seen can pay more.

(Okay, I'll go back OT, just wanted to leave that link for you in case you wanted to follow up.  There is a thread already about teaching overseas, somewhere.)

[arebelspy]

Climbing Shoes + Rope - $300

I'm sure you already have shoes and rope, so do you really go through them fast enough that you need to buy $300 worth every year?  Or are they just so expensive that the $300 is like one pair of shoes and 2 ropes?

Also I'm sure like 2/3 of that food budget is oranges, right?  ;)

[Herbert Derp]

My only note/question on this awesome challenge is this: aren't people and families around the poverty line eligible for several kinds of financial assistance (like with buying food, and often subsidized housing), and then this doesn't get counted into the challenge?

*I am in no way advocating taking money away or giving more to any socioeconomic group.

But doesn't this make the challenge EVEN MORE difficult?

I'd like to try doing 200% of the poverty level, but still it is still considerably a large percentage of mortgage payments.

No, I don't believe it makes the challenge more difficult. For instance, my employer pays for my healthcare, transportation, and a significant amount of my food. Poor people would not have access to these benefits.

[spider1204]

Climbing Shoes + Rope - $300

I'm sure you already have shoes and rope, so do you really go through them fast enough that you need to buy $300 worth every year?  Or are they just so expensive that the $300 is like one pair of shoes and 2 ropes?

Also I'm sure like 2/3 of that food budget is oranges, right?  ;)

Ya, I typically go through about 1.5 shoes($150) and .5($150) of a rope per year.

Hah, ya, but I found a place here in LA selling 3lbs for $1 so maybe it'll go down.

[Herbert Derp]

Month two is down! I think I did quite well this month, aside from blowing $55 on videogames (44% of my non-rent spending, lol).

February
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $121.36
Total: $621.36

Total spent so far for 2014: $1,282.64
Average monthly spending for 2014: $641.32
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,695.84

[CommonCents]

What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line. 

[arebelspy]

What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line.

July-ish for me, not counting giant tax bill.  Otherwise April.  :P

[Rural]

What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line.

Depends whether we have to buy a vehicle this spring. If not, June or July. If so, whenever we write the check for the car, pretty much. Paying back the money we owed my parents on building supplies has front-loaded our expenditures this year (done in April).

[arebelspy]

This site is interesting and relevant to our earlier discussion re: poverty line in various areas.

http://livingwage.mit.edu/

It has the living wage and poverty level broken down by location, as well as number and type of household members.

For Las Vegas, NV, it says the living wage is 14.81/hr for 2 adults, poverty is $7.00

It says the living wage annual income required is $30,813.  Changing that to the poverty level (7/14.81 * 30813) gives 14,563.88 annual spending at poverty level for 2 adults in Las Vegas, NV.

Seems reasonable.

Posted about the site in this thread for further discussion: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachianism-around-the-web/calculate-your-locations-living-wage/

(Edit: Typo.)

[TorontoDeveloper]

What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line.

April's rent due on April 1st should bring me and my fiancée just about exactly up to the 10k line.

[Paulie]

What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line.

Somewhere around July for me.

[gobius]

My hat's off to you guys for doing this challenge.  My mortgage is $900/mo so I won't be able to this year, although I'm downsizing and changing payment so I only pay half the mortgage on the next house (fiancee is going to pay for half rather than me paying all of it), so in 2015 I could probably tighten my belt and shoot for $10K.  The two of us reaching the equivalent ratio to the poverty level would be tougher.

As for the crossover point, mine would be early May since I paid $3,300 for a new car.  If not for that and the down payment on our new house, it would be early July.

[Cherry Lane]

What might be interesting for the rest of us (not doing the gauntlet) is to figure out when in the year we will cross over that line.

Crossed it this week :(

[nikki]

Alright, assuming that employer-provided housing in Korea costs about 400,000w per month (~$375 USD), that's something like $4,500 a year.

I spent $8,000 last year, and if we pretended I had paid for rent as well, I'm at $12,500.

This challenge can actually be a major challenge for me if I push myself to spend less than $5,500 (+ $4,500 magic-free-housing = $10,000).

Over a year, that would give me about $460 per month, which is on par with my average months in 2013. However, not all months are average, and I'm already off to a rough start.

January 2014: $898.51 (international trip, which required a catsitter)
February 2014: already higher than average because of $587 owed in taxes and upcoming move

Can I spend ~$380.15 every other month for the rest of this year to meet Herbert Derp's challenge? It's certainly worth a shot! I'll try to remember to pop in here once a month to track progress.

I think a more interesting question will be: how long until I pass $5,500? :-p

I'm certainly not doing well with this modified challenge to see if I can spend less than $5,500! I've spent so much because of my tax bill and moving expenses, as expected. So far this year, I've spent $2,611.46! But I've also improved my quality of life (food), so it makes sense that I'm drifting further away from the poverty line.

[Big Boots Buddha]

I saw this and thought, 10,000 thats a lot of money to spend in one year!

Here are my monthly expenses that don't change each month.

1) Internet 100yuan = 16.40 at present exchange rate

That's it.

Free apartment, free phone (I actually make money as they give me more than I spend on my cheap Nokia brick), no car, no car insurance, I get cheapo health insurance from the university.

So I spend maybe two hundred dollars a month, total. But thats from spending money in previous years to buy the things that I do with my free time: free weights, squat rack, bench, board games, basketball, bball shoes, running shoes, lifting shoes. But those are all old now and have already been used so many times their price/use ratio is very low.

I dont drink, dont smoke, cook all my own meals (mostly rice cooker and then some veggies stir fried, eggs and veggies for breakfast).

[innerscorecard]

I teach at an international high school here in Shanghai, China and can say that I've had three important benefits from teaching abroad (besides enjoying the work!):

Living rent-free (employer-provided housing)
Not paying US taxes (My employer handles my Chinese taxes but I don't earn enough to also owe US taxes). 
Lower cost of living - Shanghai can be extravagantly expensive (with $15 cocktails, $200 steaks, etc.) if you aim to impress, or, if you do things right, it can be a very cheap place to live.

So while my salary wouldn't sound too impressive to those back home, the amount I'm able to save more than makes up for it (and I also have some side gigs). Basically my only expenses are food and entertainment/travel. Cooking at home and having cheap hobbies means that building my stache here has been relatively easy and I still find myself living what I would consider an incredibly luxurious lifestyle (especially compared to many of Shanghai's residents). That said, I see many of my colleagues who spend just about every penny earned eating out every night, drinking at trendy bars, taking taxis everywhere, and buying loads of "stuff". These are usually younger teachers who suddenly have "disposable" income for the first time and lifestyle inflation just takes over. Many even further inflate their lifestyle by tutoring afterschool and then spending that money too! I don't keep really careful track of yearly totals, but it's probably somewhere in the ballpark of $10,000/year and that includes a decent amount of travel for holidays/summer vacation. I could certainly get it lower if I eliminated travel, alcohol, and some imported food items, but I see no need to be that strict.

I find that if you aren't in the usual expat/bourgeois social circles you really can save a lot of money. You have to not be afraid to be different and weird though. My co-workers are always asking me if I'm not bored never travelling during vacations but just staying home. I think it's better to keep some information asymmetry and not talk about how busy I am with side projects during these breaks!

[Ian]

1) Internet 100yuan = 16.40 at present exchange rate

That's it.

Free apartment, free phone (I actually make money as they give me more than I spend on my cheap Nokia brick), no car, no car insurance, I get cheapo health insurance from the university.

Sounds pretty similar to my situation, though it could also be a study grant - what exacty are you doing for this setup?

[innerscorecard]

I saw this and thought, 10,000 thats a lot of money to spend in one year!

Here are my monthly expenses that don't change each month.

1) Internet 100yuan = 16.40 at present exchange rate

That's it.

Free apartment, free phone (I actually make money as they give me more than I spend on my cheap Nokia brick), no car, no car insurance, I get cheapo health insurance from the university.

So I spend maybe two hundred dollars a month, total. But thats from spending money in previous years to buy the things that I do with my free time: free weights, squat rack, bench, board games, basketball, bball shoes, running shoes, lifting shoes. But those are all old now and have already been used so many times their price/use ratio is very low.

I dont drink, dont smoke, cook all my own meals (mostly rice cooker and then some veggies stir fried, eggs and veggies for breakfast).

Did you buy all that stuff on Taobao? I currently use a gym but I would rather lift at home.

[Big Boots Buddha]

1) Internet 100yuan = 16.40 at present exchange rate

That's it.

Free apartment, free phone (I actually make money as they give me more than I spend on my cheap Nokia brick), no car, no car insurance, I get cheapo health insurance from the university.

Sounds pretty similar to my situation, though it could also be a study grant - what exacty are you doing for this setup?

I work at a pretty good university in NE China. Its pretty standard as far as benefits. Also includes free air travel back home each year.

[arebelspy]

It's part of your compensation package.  IMO the amount you spend would be the equivalent to what you would spend had you a different job that paid you in cash and let you buy your own accommodations, food, etc.  You'll need to figure that out if you ever want to FIRE.  Most of us have the same issue on a smaller scale, re: healthcare.

[Big Boots Buddha]

It's part of your compensation package.  IMO the amount you spend would be the equivalent to what you would spend had you a different job that paid you in cash and let you buy your own accommodations, food, etc.  You'll need to figure that out if you ever want to FIRE.  Most of us have the same issue on a smaller scale, re: healthcare.

Yeah. Income and expenses dont mean much, its all about quality of life and how much money is saved. I save about 30k a year depending on what I do with the winter holiday (work, relax at home, or travel). 30k really isnt very much and its going to take me a LONG time to FIRE on that.

Even bigger problem: China is not for me longterm, its really polluted. I won't be able to earn much of anything once I go back to the Midwest where Im from, luckily housing is super cheap. So hopefully, buy a cheap house, renovate, and buy some other cheap houses and rent them out. Its good to save 30k a year (my family is poor so this seems like a lot to me) but I realize its not much and sadly it seems like the best I will do, since once I go back its 30k a year jobs, minus taxes, minus expenses. Ack! Majoring in History was the worst decision of my life so far. Thanks mom and dad for telling me to study what I liked! =)

[Ian]

I work at a pretty good university in NE China. Its pretty standard as far as benefits. Also includes free air travel back home each year.

I teach in South Korea, and I'm interested in comparing benefits. You mention housing, insurance, and a phone stipend - anything else? Aside from that, what's your salary in raw yuan? What about workload?

[Herbert Derp]

March results are in! To get a more accurate estimate of my extrapolated spending for the year, I have created a new target for abnormal spending since I know I have a couple one-off expenses coming up in the next few months.

March
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $109.82
Total: $609.82

Total spent so far for 2014: $1,892.46
Average monthly spending for 2014: $630.82
Abnormal spending target: $350.00
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,919.84

[Big Boots Buddha]

March results are in! To get a more accurate estimate of my extrapolated spending for the year, I have created a new target for abnormal spending since I know I have a couple one-off expenses coming up in the next few months.

March
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $109.82
Total: $609.82

Total spent so far for 2014: $1,892.46
Average monthly spending for 2014: $630.82
Abnormal spending target: $350.00
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,919.84

You, Mr. H. Derp, are crushing it. 130 bucks a month outside of rent/internet. Keep up the good fight! I dont remember what kind of job you had but it seems like it was pretty good. At the end of the experiment have you considered sharing how much money you saved during 2014?

[Herbert Derp]

I'll be posting periodic updates about my net worth, but for this topic I'm focused on spending. You can follow my journey to FI in this other topic: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/financial-independence-at-27/

[belgiandude]

My spending in 2013 was less than 10 000 euro (including getting married with wedding ring and party ;)).
I moved to the USA recently. We need to do our best to spend more than 1000 dollar/month (living in the south, which is cheap).

[samburger]

March results are in! To get a more accurate estimate of my extrapolated spending for the year, I have created a new target for abnormal spending since I know I have a couple one-off expenses coming up in the next few months.

March
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $109.82
Total: $609.82

Total spent so far for 2014: $1,892.46
Average monthly spending for 2014: $630.82
Abnormal spending target: $350.00
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,919.84

I'm so blown away by your frugality skills. Here I am patting myself on the back for keeping me and my wife's grocery bill under $300 this month..!

[Ascotillion]

I second that! It's great to read such tiny numbers. I was on a (wonderful AND mostly-frugal) holiday in Jan and Feb so my numbers are a little skewed due to getting back in the rhythm of things, but my total for March looks reasonable at $1622.84 AUD, which is a little higher than the 1370 a month someone mentioned upthread. This is taken straight from my bank statement so it's going to be a little inaccurate - this doesn't include any electricity or gas since it sits between the pay period, but I think over the next few months I'm going to log my spendings with a little more depth and see where I can cut down.

So far for April I'm looking at $1358 (that's including my quarterly elec bill!) with no plans to splurge crazily over the next week. Here's hoping for an even thriftier May!

[Cottonswab]

Hats off to everyone to accepting this challenge (especially those without employer subsidized living expenses)!   I am especially impressed by Herbert Derp. 

[griffin]

I like Nikki's modified-for-housing plan. When I was paying rent it was $350/mo with utilities and my share of internet, so I need to get under $5,800. Ouch. 1/1/14 through 4/28/14 I've spent $2,700, or ~$700/mo on average (monthly spending has been on the decline though!). So I have 3k leftover for the next 8 months; $375/mo. Not convinced I will manage this, but certainly worth a shot!

[mikecorayer]

The modified-for-housing plan doesn't work as well for me, simply because my employer-provided housing is nicer than I need. I wouldn't pay for a place this nice if it were my own money (I'm estimating around $800/month, which would leave only $400 for everything else). But it's a take it or leave it situation. In other words, take the free housing or decline and get nothing else in exchange. Believe it or not, there are actually teachers who turn down the free housing so they can live closer to downtown bars/restaurants (maybe 10-12km away) but I guess that's a topic for the anti-mustachian section.
This discussion has led me to keep more careful track of my spending this year (and closer tracking means less spending), so thanks to everyone for the extra motivation. I've always been frugal but having an overall "spend less than x" goal has been helpful.

[griffin]

(I'm estimating around $800/month, which would leave only $400 for everything else). But it's a take it or leave it situation.

I think it might be more like $33 :) A challenge even for HD, perhaps

[mikecorayer]

Right, I meant $400/year leftover. Living on $33/month probably isn't something to aspire to even if it is possible :)

[Herbert Derp]

April turned out to be one of my most frugal months yet! This was mostly due to the large amount of food I bought last month which is still not completely eaten. I only made one grocery shopping trip this month, and didn't need to buy any of my staples. I'm worried about the months to come, since it looks like my 10-15% rent increase is going hit my budget pretty hard (I still don't know the specifics, landlord is a huge procrastinator).

In other news, I got a $150 bonus for a new checking account this month, plus was able to employ some "manufactured spending" tactics to get a $75 bonus from Discover for "spending" $1,000. I have also been enjoying a cashback rate of a little over 6% on my grocery purchases, by exploiting my $0.10 per-purchase cashback with many small transactions.

I also got a raise, and although it won't save my budget from ruin once my rent increases, it will at least allow me to preserve my savings rate. Finally, though sheer luck I was able to avoid a one-off expense I had been planning for this month, so I was able to adjust my abnormal spending target for the year.

April
Rent: $500.00 (includes electricity/water/sewage/trash/internet)
Other: $28.87
Total: $528.87

Total spent so far for 2014: $2,421.33
Average monthly spending for 2014: $605.33
Abnormal spending target: $250.00
Extrapolated 2014 spending: $7,513.99

I think it might be more like $33 :) A challenge even for HD, perhaps

:P

[CommonCents]

What does abnormal spending target mean?

Also, once your landlord does get to telling you the rate increase...try to negotiate it.  Point out it's a large increase, suggest a 5% increase, offer to do something around the place instead, etc.  Don't accept it for a given!

[Herbert Derp]

Abnormal spending means anticipated one-off spending which would skew my spending estimates if I didn't account for it. I think I'll change the name to "one-off spending target."

As for the rent increase, I've made my case but legally I don't have a say in it.

[ch12]

Right, I meant $400/year leftover. Living on $33/month probably isn't something to aspire to even if it is possible :)

Mark Boyle of the Moneyless Manifesto lived without money for a year. At that level, it's a statement. I think that it's something to aspire to, but it's highly unlikely that I personally would aspire to it. I actually like money a lot. The money doesn't have to be mine. (People frequently interpret this as "ch12 enjoys spending other people's money" but actually, I am just a bit dragon-ish and like to have the assurance of a hoard of gold somewhere nearby.)

[pedostache]

I'm still under 10k but it doesn't look like I'll be able to stay under 10,000.  I am currently at $ 6,583

[marty998]

Abnormal spending means anticipated one-off spending which would skew my spending estimates if I didn't account for it. I think I'll change the name to "one-off spending target."

As for the rent increase, I've made my case but legally I don't have a say in it.

Sort of off topic but there's a couple of dog stock companies in Australia that every year without fail come out with one-off writedowns and restructures. It's so predictable that they should stop with the pretences and include it in the normal operating profits, rather than disclose it outside of underlying results.

I've always had a laugh whenever I see the EBITDA numbers, or variations of it. It's like saying "Earnings Before All The Bad Stuff".

Not saying it applies to you Herbert Derp, but there's a case to be made that a lot of "one-off" expenses really are just normal expenses.

[nikki]

I'm out! I can't do it even with my low spending. Getting married in August and likely wiping out his debt ($8,000) in one go.

[apfroggy0408]

Man and I'm over here thinking I'll be doing awesome if I can keep it under $20k for the year lol.

Good stuff!!

[Ian]

My goal still seems plausible. This month felt like another expensive one, but I glanced at my totals and I'm going to come in under par for my target monthly average (unless these last few days are crazy somehow).

[Big Boots Buddha]

What happened to Mr. Herbert Derp?

[Ian]

He's been on, just not posting much.

Since this thread last came up, we've crossed the six month milestone. Based on my expenses for the first half of the year, I can say that the thread's goal seems... entirely plausible.

[Dyk]

Just started the journey, so won't be doing this for 2014 calendar year.

But I am in
$30,980.70 - 7 people. 
(I think I just soiled myself)

[Bob W]

Love the concept of this challenge.   So for MMM who has a family of 3 it would be 30K?   

Here is a base budget to help everyone get well under the 10K mark

Monthly housing  $250  (mort,ins,taxes, utes misc)
Monthly car $150
Monthly food $100
Misc $100

That puts you at roughly 7K per year a very doable college norm.

Most people will balk at the housing cost because "In my area blah, blah, blah."   

So for MMM I just Zillowed 20 homes in Longmont in the $180,000 range.   A 4% interest only mortgage would be $480 per month (144 borrowed with 20% down on 180)Insurance 45, taxes 65, utes 80. 

Since he has a family of three that would put him well below $750 in total housing.  (meaning he could sell his 400K home and live strictly of the interest of that alone for all the family expenses)

Alternative housing options - Live with your parents, family,  friends,  roomates or whatever.   Live in an RV.  Live in a one BR efficiency or rent a basement.  (especially those single folks),  move to a cheaper area.  In  most Midwestern small towns a person can buy a nice home for 50K.  (this is a site about retiring right?) 

BTW,  I work with financially disadvantaged disabled people.   Their monthly income is typically $700 per year and they are living pretty nice lives. 

10K is a no brainer on paper,  the problem will be overcoming your own ego and that of your spouse. 

[griffin]

Their monthly income is typically $700 per year 

ಠ_ಠ

[Bob W]

Their monthly income is typically $700 per year 

ಠ_ಠ

thanks for reading for content.  looks like my editor was off that day.  lol

[RyanHesson]

Sounds hard to do without living in your car. But good luck to ya. And very good job if you can make it happen.

I'll try and challenge myself to only spend $17,500 in 2015. That would be a savings rate of about 72%, high enough for me.

[Roland of Gilead]

We spent $60k just in federal tax in 2013 so I think we would fail out of the gate.   Good luck though!