Author Topic: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?  (Read 8424 times)

Hirondelle

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #100 on: October 08, 2018, 11:53:41 PM »
Are you encouraging me to take another trip now to offset CO2 again? :D

No just joking. I'm out of money for this compensation tho, but I actually did already put some of my "monthly random charity budget" to your cause as I'd really like to see those subsidies go!

Malaysia41

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #101 on: October 09, 2018, 12:19:20 AM »
Are you encouraging me to take another trip now to offset CO2 again? :D

No just joking. I'm out of money for this compensation tho, but I actually did already put some of my "monthly random charity budget" to your cause as I'd really like to see those subsidies go!

Yeah, no.

I’m just sorry I didn’t post my lobbying link here a month ago :/.

https://www.lobbyists4good.org/animal-ag-subsidies

wenchsenior

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2018, 12:05:45 PM »
I wasn't sure where to post, but this seemed like the best overall fit.

DH and I already did the single biggest thing we can do to help reduce carbon output...no kids (a decision I made by the late 1990s, based largely on environmental ethics).  However, there are plenty of areas to improve in, and I've gotten lazy about them the past 10 years.

Reviewing our lifestyle, travel is a big problem.  We live in the 'asphodel fields' of the U.S., with almost no natural beauty or outdoor recreational opportunities (or even public land) for 3.5 hours' drive in every damn direction. We can't move (we have tried repeatedly) b/c of limited job locations in DH's specialized job.  And now we are supporting family and can't move to most locations that might be available due to cost limitations.  Plus, the rest of our friends and family live scattered ALL over the country, including on both opposite coasts and the far northern border.

So, we fly. A lot. Mostly for work, but also a couple times per year for recreation.  I had not thought before of purchasing offsets based on our flights, but this thread has inspired me to start doing this, at the very least for long recreational flights.

In the meantime, the calculators show our carbon footprint ~30% less than the average 2-person household in our area, but I'm sure we can do better in non-travel areas.

Goal 1: Reduce purchase of consumer goods.

We already don't buy much, but these discussions have me rethinking our buying habits anyway. In the past few years I've cut way down on book buying (somewhat of a 'gazinga pin' for me), and cds/dvds (which are becoming obsolete anyway).  I've never been much of a clothes buyer, but could still cut down somewhat there.  Recently I was planning to buy a couple of new bookshelves for my office, but now I'm thinking I should just read more aggressively and get rid of more books, rather than buy more shelves to store them!  I'm also planning to cut down somewhat on purchasing plants (gardening is my main hobby, but ugh...shipping costs...water needs in a dry climate...and as all gardeners know, lots of new plant experiments don't work out and amount to lost money anyway). Etc.

Goal 2: Driving. 

I work from home, and we've been a 1-car household for about 7 years, which is inconvenient but has trained me to 'save up' errands and try to efficiently do lots of them in one clockwise (right hand turns only, less idling) trip around the city.

The vast majority of our driving is husband's 18 mile commute to work and my 18 mile commute to the gym.  (Bikes are not an option where we live. Too dangerous in this particular bike-hostile city and too many of our friends have been seriously injured or killed biking over the years). My goal here is to dramatically reduce our tendency to 'just run to the grocery store for a few things for dinner', which is only a 2 mile trip, but probably happens 3-4 times per week b/c we are disorganized about meal planning.

Also, we have a lot of nice weather here, and if I just need a few things for dinner there is no damn reason I can't just walk to the store with a backpack and an ice pack if I am too lazy to meal plan!

Goal 3: Reduce meat and other high carbon foods (see attached graph).

This is my big one for this winter, along with cutting overall grocery costs and eating lower on the food chains.

On the positive side, we already don't eat lamb (at all), or much beef (I eat it maybe 1-2x/month, husband about 4-6x/month) or pork (1-2x per week, usually as bacon or sausage).  We eat no farmed fish.  We do eat a fair amount of eggs and husband eats a lot of dairy.  We regularly eat turkey (higher carbon footprint than chicken, which I didn't know), wild-caught fish, and chicken. We do not eat vegetarian dinners. Husband also eats lunch (I don't) and often has meat then.

My first goal for 2019 is to explore vegetarian protein substitutes and then to develop at least 4 vegetarian meals that we really like and can work into our weekly dinner (and maybe husband's lunch) rotation.  If this goes well, I might try to shift even more meals over to vegetarian.  This will have the added bonus of forcing me to meal-plan a bit more and, thus, cut down on those emergency car trips to 'pick up a few things' at the grocery store!

Secondary goal for 2019 is for husband to get us a deer or two this year, which will mean we don't need to buy beef at all.  Husband might also be supplying us with rabbits (depending on whether he flies a hawk this year).  That would cut down our big-ag meat purchases, as well.

Phew, as pessimistic as I feel, I'm glad for the enthusiasm of Malaysia41 and everyone who is participating in these climate-change related threads. You guys have inspired me to recover my 'go down fighting' mentality, as opposed to my prevailing 'fuck it, it's hopeless' mentality.

Thanks all.

BicycleB

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #103 on: October 24, 2018, 02:48:49 PM »
Good plan!  Also, very nice graph.


Malaysia41

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2018, 03:41:21 PM »
Wow Wenchsenior!  I like your plan too.

Quote
(Bikes are not an option where we live. Too dangerous in this particular bike-hostile city and too many of our friends have been seriously injured or killed biking over the years).


^^ That sucks!

Quote
Also, we have a lot of nice weather here, and if I just need a few things for dinner there is no damn reason I can't just walk to the store with a backpack and an ice pack if I am too lazy to meal plan!

Right on!

If you want ideas for incorporating more plant based meals, join us over in the throw down the gauntlet section in our

Go WFPB (Whole Food Plant Based) Challenge thread.

Tonight I made beefless stew from straightupfood (based on Dr. McDougall's recipe) My husband slurped it up and said, 'it's like being in a cozy pub.' 

With the potatoes and peas, you get all the protein you need. Seriously, protein is in every single damn plant. You can't name one that has zero protein.

But if you're looking for the big protein packers: tofu in tofu scramble, and lentils in shepherd's pie, and black beans in ginormo burritos. But you'll find that discussion over on the WFPB thread if you'd like to join us.

Yeah that graph is useful. I am surprised dairy milk is so low. Dairy cows are worse Carbon emitters than beef cattle, mainly because of the poor management of their manure. Anyway thanks for posting it.  Now I can look closer into where they're getting their data. Could be there's something I'm missing with the dairy story.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 03:52:24 PM by Malaysia41 »

Malaysia41

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #105 on: October 24, 2018, 03:50:07 PM »
Phew, as pessimistic as I feel, I'm glad for the enthusiasm of Malaysia41 and everyone who is participating in these climate-change related threads. You guys have inspired me to recover my 'go down fighting' mentality, as opposed to my prevailing 'fuck it, it's hopeless' mentality.

<3 <3 <3

Lately, my 'go down fighting' has translated into, 'fuck my circle of control, I'm expanding it!'

That lobby campaign I posted? fully funded as of yesterday: https://www.lobbyists4good.org/animal-ag-subsidies

That local Anonymous for the Voiceless vegan activism I organize? We're up to 64 members on the local AV: Verona facebook group, and we're doing a Cube of Truth just about every week.

I'm meeting with another activist tomorrow and we will plan how to bring the Be Fair Be Vegan campaign to Verona. OMG the people here will get their jimmies in a knot! But talking to my activist friends in Seattle, the campaign there was super effective. And well, yeah - going down fighting. And having a great time doing it. So happy I'm FIREd. I've the time, interest and means to keep pushing that circle of influence ever wider. Okay time for bed, I've got to be up at 4am for a call with the Vegan Justice League. OMG the people in that thing are SO FIRED UP. I love it.

Thanks for taking the time to post that plan and write up Wenchsenior. I loved reading it.  Cheers.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 03:53:01 PM by Malaysia41 »

wenchsenior

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #106 on: October 24, 2018, 03:57:28 PM »
Wow Wenchsenior!  I like your plan too.

Quote
(Bikes are not an option where we live. Too dangerous in this particular bike-hostile city and too many of our friends have been seriously injured or killed biking over the years).


^^ That sucks!

Quote
Also, we have a lot of nice weather here, and if I just need a few things for dinner there is no damn reason I can't just walk to the store with a backpack and an ice pack if I am too lazy to meal plan!

Right on!

If you want ideas for incorporating more plant based meals, join us over in the throw down the gauntlet section in our

Go WFPB (Whole Food Plant Based) Challenge thread.

Tonight I made beefless stew from straightupfood (based on Dr. McDougall's recipe) My husband slurped it up and said, 'it's like being in a cozy pub.' 

With the potatoes and peas, you get all the protein you need. Seriously, protein is in every single damn plant. You can't name one that has zero protein.

But if you're looking for the big protein packers: tofu in tofu scramble, and lentils in shepherd's pie, and black beans in ginormo burritos. But you'll find that discussion over on the WFPB thread if you'd like to join us.

Yeah that graph is useful. I am surprised dairy milk is so low. Dairy cows are worse Carbon emitters than beef cattle, mainly because of the poor management of their manure. Anyway thanks for posting it.  Now I can look closer into where they're getting their data. Could be there's something I'm missing with the dairy story.

I am not sure of the robustness of the data with that graph...I was just googling around and I think maybe I got it from a Guardian article?  It's possible that the milk is lower just b/c milk is a renewable resource...in the sense that one cow produces repeated batches of milk, whereas beef is one cow producing a set amount of food one time only.

Malaysia41

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #107 on: October 24, 2018, 04:16:21 PM »
It could be they aren't including the carbon emissions of all the grain and corn they grow to feed the cows, and maybe they're not including the methane from manure management - which my research tells me is worse than that for beef cows.

So ... IDK. But to your point, one cow in the US produces 23,000 lbs of milk a year or 10,000 kg. Isn't that insane?  Can you imagine being milked 2-3x a day for 3-4 years each and every day and producing that massive quantity of milk? (not to mention being made pregnant every 12 months so that your body produces milk, only to lose your baby within hours of birth because that milk's being diverted to humans.)  Has your husband tried ripple, or oatly, or cashew milk, or any plant milks?

Source for the 23k lbs of milk a year (USDA) : https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Milk_Production_and_Milk_Cows/cowrates.php

And, good luck with walking to the store; maybe you won't have to go to the gym as often if you get in 4 miles going to the store 3x a week. I love combining exercise with errand-running. It's win win.


Malaysia41

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #108 on: October 25, 2018, 12:22:42 AM »
Did that appeal to ethics regarding dairy cows make you guys uncomfortable? Did it feel misplaced here? What would you have preferred?  I'm must trying to hone my outreach skills. Sometimes a jarring fact aimed at the feels works, other times, it repulses people.

So do be honest, as this is for posterity. ;)  (double points for getting this reference).

wenchsenior

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #109 on: October 25, 2018, 08:24:16 AM »
Did that appeal to ethics regarding dairy cows make you guys uncomfortable? Did it feel misplaced here? What would you have preferred?  I'm must trying to hone my outreach skills. Sometimes a jarring fact aimed at the feels works, other times, it repulses people.

So do be honest, as this is for posterity. ;)  (double points for getting this reference).

Meh.  Not completely misplaced here IMO, but probably more appropriate/useful in threads dedicated specifically to vegetarianism/veganism.  I suspect most people who turn to vegan and vegetarian diets b/c of  their concerns about the conditions of individual animals in big-ag environments are already pretty motivated to do so and  have already sought out info such as what you presented. Whereas, my own valuation of nonhuman life is very strong and one of the foundational ethical principles of my life; but, because I am trained as a scientist, it operates at a different biological scale than e.g., a 'typical' non-scientist, animal-rights-oriented person (and occasionally is in direct conflict with such a person's values).  For me, reducing the suffering of individual animals is a very pleasant side effect of trying to eat lower on the food chain, but isn't ever going to be a primary motivator for my actions.

Re: your question...DH doesn't eat a ton of milk, mostly a couple times per week on his dry cereal.  I think he uses water to make oatmeal at work (and I do sometimes make his oatmeal at home with half milk/half plant milk, which is fine with him), but he adores cheese and yogurt.  And he would laugh in someone's face if they tried to offer a non dairy 'substitute' for his beloved Tillamook sharp cheddar.

I was more open to switching partly b/c I have some trouble with lactose, and partly b/c I just don't love cheese as much as a lot of Americans seem to.  I regard it as a condiment.  I already use mostly plant milks.  Neither of us can lean very heavily on soy products b/c of thryoid related autoimmune disease, and I want to save our soy allowance for better things than soy milk.  My trouble with giving up dairy entirely is that I need the calories, and plant milks are so low calorie!  Except hemp.  Ugh. I wish more variants of hemp milk were sold in my area.

Tass

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #110 on: October 28, 2018, 01:28:25 PM »
Yikes. I have mostly seen "dairy" grouped together before, so didn't know cheese in particular was such a significant carbon source. That's a definite guilty pleasure for me.

I also didn't know turkey was more carbon-intensive than chicken, and turkey sandwiches are about the only non-fish meat I still eat regularly. Anybody have any filling deli meat substitutes to recommend? I can't make myself eat mushroom or bell pepper sandwiches every day.

I can also pay more attention to whether the fish I eat (almost exclusively in sushi) is farmed or wild-caught, and if wild-caught whether it's responsibly fished.

I am finally biking to work. Regularly. I can't take too much credit for it, because the move that enabled it now requires my partner to drive instead of walking, so our net carbon output hasn't changed. But I am hoping that this will be an investment - if I can prove to myself a bike commute is possible now I will be more willing to consider and pursue it for the rest of my life.

Malaysia41

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #111 on: October 28, 2018, 03:46:49 PM »
Anybody have any filling deli meat substitutes to recommend? I can't make myself eat mushroom or bell pepper sandwiches every day.

Hi Tass, I *highly* recommend signing up on challenge22.com and doing a 22 day whole food plant based diet. You'll learn all sorts of substitutes and recipes. It's seriously worth the time - just for expanding your options. I've been eating vegan over a year now, and have never had a mushroom bell pepper sandwich :).   I eat burritos, cereal, lasagna, pizza, shepherd's pie, apple crisp, pancakes, tabouleh, pad thai, pho' ... the list goes on and on.

For sandwiches, we make a 'tuna' fish out of seitan. I don't remember exactly where I got the recipe but this is similar: https://www.connoisseurusveg.com/seitan-chickpea-salad-with-dill-and-almonds/

Here are some of my favorite recipe sites in general:

http://www.onegreenplanet.org
 ... http://www.onegreenplanet.org/vegan-food/how-to-make-vegan-seafood-dishes-without-the-fish/

http://www.minimalistbaker.com
 ... https://minimalistbaker.com/1-pot-golden-curry-lentil-soup/

https://www.exceedinglyvegan.com
 ... https://www.exceedinglyvegan.com/vegan-recipes/dips-sauces-cheese/vegan-cranberry-cheese

https://itdoesnttastelikechicken.com/
 ....  https://itdoesnttastelikechicken.com/hearty-vegan-tofu-salad-sandwich/

Good luck. Before WFPB, I liked food ok, but after going WFPB, I love food. And I can stuff my face with as much of it as I want and stay at a weight I hadn't been at since I was 16 years old. I've learned all about spices and naturally vegan ethnic foods like mesir wot and many Indian dishes.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 03:48:56 PM by Malaysia41 »

palebluedot

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #112 on: October 28, 2018, 07:32:33 PM »
I commute to work on a regular bike (~4.5 miles) but there's this interesting Wheel to turn it into electric. It's designed by former SpaceX engineers. I haven't tried it but if others are looking for an easier commute by bike it might be something to look into.
https://www.geoo.com/

So far this year I've donated to two activist groups pushing to elect pro-science candidates into office.
314: $132
Sunrise Movement: $70

I'm going to make another donation this week before election day in the US. Keep up the good work people!

wenchsenior

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #113 on: October 29, 2018, 08:54:49 AM »
Yikes. I have mostly seen "dairy" grouped together before, so didn't know cheese in particular was such a significant carbon source. That's a definite guilty pleasure for me.

I also didn't know turkey was more carbon-intensive than chicken, and turkey sandwiches are about the only non-fish meat I still eat regularly. Anybody have any filling deli meat substitutes to recommend? I can't make myself eat mushroom or bell pepper sandwiches every day.

I can also pay more attention to whether the fish I eat (almost exclusively in sushi) is farmed or wild-caught, and if wild-caught whether it's responsibly fished.

I am finally biking to work. Regularly. I can't take too much credit for it, because the move that enabled it now requires my partner to drive instead of walking, so our net carbon output hasn't changed. But I am hoping that this will be an investment - if I can prove to myself a bike commute is possible now I will be more willing to consider and pursue it for the rest of my life.

I was fairly impressed with seitan, which is gluten protein that has a texture similar to meat (and is often sold in 'deli meat' slices), and an earthy flavor.  However, the brands I've tried are somewhat salty and the gluten is a problem for some.  But it was a good substitute, for sure. I'm going to try it in my husband's sandwiches as an occasional vegetarian option.

I also tried tempeh, which (to me) essentially seems like firm, heavily textured blue cheese.  Unfortunately, I don't like the taste of blue cheese. What I found, though, was if I left the tempeh package open for a few days, the intensity of the cheesy taste diminished somewhat.  I will definitely use tempeh in soups, etc, in the future.

Tass

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #114 on: November 01, 2018, 01:25:25 PM »
Thanks for the recs, all. I have lots of vegetarian recipes for dinner already, what I've been lacking is an easy vegetarian sandwich to pack for lunch on days when there are no leftovers handy.

Hirondelle

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #115 on: November 01, 2018, 01:29:20 PM »
How 'extensive' do you like your sandwiches to be Tass (I'm aware that the American concept of sandwich is generally quite different from our Dutch one). Some simple things I've done often is stuff like hummus + cucumber slices, peanut butter (unsweet) + cucumber, pesto + some spinach leaves and/or dried tomatoes.

My absolute favorite are spring rolls filled with veggies tho - not actually a sandwich and slightly more work chopping, but def worth it :)

Tass

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #116 on: November 01, 2018, 01:31:30 PM »
Spring rolls do sound pretty awesome. Do you have to prep those daily or can you make them in advance?

The sandwiches I rely on now are usually turkey, cheese, and mayo/mustard. Deeply carbon sinful. ;) On good days I will also have lettuce and tomato but those don't keep as long and well.

Hirondelle

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #117 on: November 01, 2018, 01:36:08 PM »
If you want to go lower on the carbon scale; how about switching to eggs? Omelet/fried egg is delicious and even a boiled egg with the other ingredients you mention can be pretty good.

When I've made spring rolls I think I've taken them with me for lunch up to 3-4 days, but the last day the paper started ripping very easily so it was more of a veggie mush with rice paper in my lunch box :p. But they def survive 2-3 days refrigerated (assuming you've used fresh veggies/herbs that weren't about to go bad)!

palebluedot

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #118 on: November 13, 2018, 07:05:26 PM »
Today, a large group of young activists went to Washington to put pressure on the new Congress to get working on climate policy. These kids are working their tails off.

https://www.facebook.com/sunrisemvmt/videos/415148215973422/

SnackDog

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #119 on: November 14, 2018, 06:51:41 AM »
Today, a large group of young activists went to Washington to put pressure on the new Congress to get working on climate policy. These kids are working their tails off.

https://www.facebook.com/sunrisemvmt/videos/415148215973422/

I hope they rode their bikes to Washington!

Bicycle_B

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #120 on: December 08, 2018, 09:53:10 AM »
Hi, gang. Spinning my wheels here. Itís almost the end of the year, and i havenít done half the stuff on my climate list. So today I tried to jump in and do my carbon offset calculations and purchase in one big jump.

The good news is before I reached the end of my rope, the Nature.org calculator determined my carbon use at 9 tons, 62% better than average. Existing home efficiency, less driving this year, and some meat reduction were the main advantages.

But I have gotten lost trying to sort out how to offset. Just posting instead of not posting.

Malaysia41

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #121 on: December 08, 2018, 11:57:23 PM »
Hi, gang. Spinning my wheels here. It’s almost the end of the year, and i haven’t done half the stuff on my climate list. So today I tried to jump in and do my carbon offset calculations and purchase in one big jump.

The good news is before I reached the end of my rope, the Nature.org calculator determined my carbon use at 9 tons, 62% better than average. Existing home efficiency, less driving this year, and some meat reduction were the main advantages.

But I have gotten lost trying to sort out how to offset. Just posting instead of not posting.

:) Hey Bicycle_B. If you're not sure about the $ amount for carbon offsets, I'd suggest picking a number between $30-$200 a ton.

If you want ideas for where to send this $, consider doing what I'm doing, and give to people who are pushing for humanity to consume fewer animal products.

We are way overpopulated with people. And yet we grow food to feed 1.5 billion cows worldwide as well. These cows intensify global warming as they produce 35-40% of anthropogenic methane emissions*. Methane is 23x more powerful a ghg than CO2. Our cow addiction is insanity. In truth, we need to drastically reduce our animal consumption. Cow meat and cow milk is a good place to start - especially if your concern is global warming.

Here are the activists I give to.

End US fed subsidies to animal ag (and include animal ag in Green New Deal): 
(yes this is my own effort, but hey, why not list it here?)

On Patreon:
Earthling Ed   < I adore this guy
Bite Sized Vegan
Alex Seb
Activists On the Road

Donate to the Vegan Justice League. $50 a year gives you basic membership to this lobbying group. Bonus: You already know the newly minted VJL head of research. (it's me). 

* From Livestock's Long Shadow - pg. 113 - (Food and Ag Org of the United Nations):

Quote
Methane

Livestock account for 35–40 percent of global anthropogenic emissions. The leading role of livestock, in methane emissions, has long been a well-established fact. Together, enteric fermentation and manure represent some 80 percent of agricultural methane emissions and about 35–40 percent of the total anthropogenic methane emissions.


« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 11:59:20 PM by Malaysia41 »

BicycleB

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Re: Self Imposing Carbon Taxes - Who's With Me?
« Reply #122 on: December 11, 2018, 09:04:16 PM »
Ok, making progress:
1) Decided on $30/ton.
2) Decided on 10 tons (9 tons from Nature Conservancy calculator, plus 1 ton to account for mistakes in the data I guessed at)
3 Partway through picking organizations to donate to. Tentatively includes Union of Concerned Scientists, possibly EarthJustice.