Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 955026 times)

ca-rn

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5500 on: November 03, 2021, 06:01:28 PM »
Officially crossed over to the $2M mark!   And of course, can't share this with anyone IRL :)
 
Shocked since I never imagined I'd ever even have $1M in my life!  All thanks to LBYM, 20 years of 401K investing, 10 years of taxable and the huge run up for a long while. 

My mind doesn't see the money there (401K/taxable) as the same money that's in my checking and saving accounts.... But to celebrate, I recently upgraded some small kitchen appliances ($200-300 each) and they weren't even on sale (!) (by habit, I did look for coupon codes- none to be found) and still hit-BUY.

Otherwise, feeling about the same, working my PT job, cooking/packing healthy meals and diy'ing when I can.   

Growing up poor, I still have lingering money anxiety but now more than ever, I know I am financially secure and feel SECURE.

Congrats.. Not sure if my money anxiety will ever go away. We crossed $3M invested 2 weeks ago.. I still seem to worry the same as I always have..:)

Congrats to you too! 

Yes, the anxiety still lingers for me too but I can take a step back more now, be kind and also laugh at myself when I catch myself sweatin' about spending a few bucks on something that is perfectly within my budget... and I gently remind myself "I can afford it" "You can buy it, its OK"

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5501 on: November 03, 2021, 09:16:20 PM »
Officially crossed over to the $2M mark!   And of course, can't share this with anyone IRL :)
 
Shocked since I never imagined I'd ever even have $1M in my life!  All thanks to LBYM, 20 years of 401K investing, 10 years of taxable and the huge run up for a long while. 

My mind doesn't see the money there (401K/taxable) as the same money that's in my checking and saving accounts.... But to celebrate, I recently upgraded some small kitchen appliances ($200-300 each) and they weren't even on sale (!) (by habit, I did look for coupon codes- none to be found) and still hit-BUY.

Otherwise, feeling about the same, working my PT job, cooking/packing healthy meals and diy'ing when I can.   

Growing up poor, I still have lingering money anxiety but now more than ever, I know I am financially secure and feel SECURE.

Congrats.. Not sure if my money anxiety will ever go away. We crossed $3M invested 2 weeks ago.. I still seem to worry the same as I always have..:)

Congrats to you too! 

Yes, the anxiety still lingers for me too but I can take a step back more now, be kind and also laugh at myself when I catch myself sweatin' about spending a few bucks on something that is perfectly within my budget... and I gently remind myself "I can afford it" "You can buy it, its OK"

Oh yeah, I was trying to break my retirement plan today.  With a 40% pension, itís even more of an I can spend what and still it shows 90% success rate.

jeroly

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5502 on: November 04, 2021, 07:33:05 AM »
Regarding crypto's I'm not an expert but one of my companies has been dealing with crypto's and blockchain's for about 8-9 years now.

I give you example of why I like Bitcoin as much as I do. FIAT kind of works as long as you have bank account in the same country where you've born or hold passport, live and work. When it comes to international transactions specially SWIFT things get broken. I hold passport from Finland, live in Thailand and had bank account in Hong Kong. When I tried to transfer money from HK to Vietnam to pay for my apartment there it took total of four weeks and then the money bounced back (- massive fees). When we tried to send money from Thailand to Finland, we did 6 visits to bank, total of 100+ documents and 10+ hrs in the end we got money transferred and paid about 3,000 USD in fees (note we had EUR account so there was no currency conversion involved) and finally thanks to EU money laundry laws and my current residency being Thailand about half of my transfer in europe get blocked by the banks. Bank's can decide if I'm allowed to transfer money to my brother for examle or how much. So when it comes to FIAT and banks, I don't really have control over my money, banks and governments can decide who I can send money to or who I can receive money from. With Bitcoin there is none of that + the transfers are pretty much instant so I can pay to anyone on the planet almost instantly without needing any permission from anyone.

When it comes to blockchain there isn't a short answer, however I do want to say this. If I would to be starting company now, I would fully run it with blockchain. Tokens would replace shares, salaries would be paid in tokens and clients would pay in cryptos. Smart contracts would allow payment automation, when certain work is done and enough of token holders will verify it payment will be automatically sent out, also any disputes could be handled with tokens, where random token holders would be called as a "jury" to decide a disputes. A very good example of a platform that would allow to do this kind of stuff is this one: https://aragon.org/ I did recently wrote my master thesis about it.

While I have never lived abroad for an extended period of time, I had investigated the possibility at various points in my lifeÖand never have I heard about protracted difficulties in transferring funds that can only be surmounted using cryptocurrency.

There are other mechanisms for moving money that bypass traditional banking such as Western Union and Xoom.  They work quickly (e.g., when I lost my debit card in Argentina, my gf was able to Xoom me $500 worth of pesos that were available in about three hours (or perhaps a lot lessÖit was seven years ago).  Low transaction fee, maybe 1%, and their exchange rate was about 50% better than the Ďofficialí rate.

This really feels like yet another concocted reason to justify cryptoís existence.  The only real use IMNSHO is for money laundering.

Finntastic

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5503 on: November 06, 2021, 02:23:11 AM »
Regarding crypto's I'm not an expert but one of my companies has been dealing with crypto's and blockchain's for about 8-9 years now.

I give you example of why I like Bitcoin as much as I do. FIAT kind of works as long as you have bank account in the same country where you've born or hold passport, live and work. When it comes to international transactions specially SWIFT things get broken. I hold passport from Finland, live in Thailand and had bank account in Hong Kong. When I tried to transfer money from HK to Vietnam to pay for my apartment there it took total of four weeks and then the money bounced back (- massive fees). When we tried to send money from Thailand to Finland, we did 6 visits to bank, total of 100+ documents and 10+ hrs in the end we got money transferred and paid about 3,000 USD in fees (note we had EUR account so there was no currency conversion involved) and finally thanks to EU money laundry laws and my current residency being Thailand about half of my transfer in europe get blocked by the banks. Bank's can decide if I'm allowed to transfer money to my brother for examle or how much. So when it comes to FIAT and banks, I don't really have control over my money, banks and governments can decide who I can send money to or who I can receive money from. With Bitcoin there is none of that + the transfers are pretty much instant so I can pay to anyone on the planet almost instantly without needing any permission from anyone.

When it comes to blockchain there isn't a short answer, however I do want to say this. If I would to be starting company now, I would fully run it with blockchain. Tokens would replace shares, salaries would be paid in tokens and clients would pay in cryptos. Smart contracts would allow payment automation, when certain work is done and enough of token holders will verify it payment will be automatically sent out, also any disputes could be handled with tokens, where random token holders would be called as a "jury" to decide a disputes. A very good example of a platform that would allow to do this kind of stuff is this one: https://aragon.org/ I did recently wrote my master thesis about it.

While I have never lived abroad for an extended period of time, I had investigated the possibility at various points in my lifeÖand never have I heard about protracted difficulties in transferring funds that can only be surmounted using cryptocurrency.

There are other mechanisms for moving money that bypass traditional banking such as Western Union and Xoom.  They work quickly (e.g., when I lost my debit card in Argentina, my gf was able to Xoom me $500 worth of pesos that were available in about three hours (or perhaps a lot lessÖit was seven years ago).  Low transaction fee, maybe 1%, and their exchange rate was about 50% better than the Ďofficialí rate.

This really feels like yet another concocted reason to justify cryptoís existence.  The only real use IMNSHO is for money laundering.
Western Union is actually one that will loose a lot of income while the use of crypto's increase. When it comes to money laundering that is under 1% of the crypto usage according to some recent studies and I bet single big bank say HSBC launders more money than crypto markets also USD cash it's by far the most used currency for illegal activities.

Having said that, this might change though, there are some much more anomonous crypto's out there than BTC or ETH that could have potential user cases for criminals and when the big banks get into crypto's then for sure money laundry will sky rocket.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5504 on: November 06, 2021, 08:31:57 AM »
As of close of the markets yesterday, we joined this race for the first time with an aggregate balance of $2.005M across all our savings/retirement/investment accounts.  TNW including home equity is somewhere a little north of $2.4M.

Still holding the line at $2.029M LNW after a couple weeks.  I know we're likely to dip below $2M from time to time, but for now it's fun to see our balances staying (just) above that threshold.

The RE market has been pretty strong here as of late, and SmartZip now estimates our paid-off house at $472k.  Probably unrealistic, but I like how it makes our TNW +/- $2.5M.

LNW was flirting with $2.2M for what seemed like months.  We finally crossed that threshold sometime in the past couple weeks and have stayed there since.  With similar market performance for the rest of the year we could be knocking on the door of $2.5M by end of year, or about $3M TNW.   100k/year @ 4% SWR.  That's nuts.

We crossed $2.3M today.  I don't know why it seemed like such a long time to go from 2.2 to 2.3.  It was only two months.

The recent market run-up brought us to just over $2.4M invested as of COB Thurs.  This last $100k took almost 3 months (cue world's smallest violin).  Closing out the year at $2.5M may be a stretch, but is certainty feasible.

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5505 on: November 07, 2021, 08:48:15 PM »
Looks like everyone is expecting the market to always go up.

frugalecon

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5506 on: November 08, 2021, 03:39:40 AM »
Looks like everyone is expecting the market to always go up.

I donít. Iím old enough to remember 1987. And the tech meltdown. And 2008-2009. And more recently, December 2018 and, of course, March 2020. It is only a matter of time before something comes along to precipitate a market decline. We just canít see what it is.

That said, my portfolio of financial assets has increased to more than $3 million this year. Never would have predicted that, either.

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5507 on: November 08, 2021, 06:34:34 AM »
Looks like everyone is expecting the market to always go up.

No, I also remember the drops from 1987 onwards.   

We expect the market to erratically trend upwards over time.   We expect that the collective brains, hard work, resources and greed of most of the world's major companies to make profits over time.   And we expect that if that turns out not to be true, we'll have such big and immediate problems in front of us that we won't much care what our portfolio used to be worth.

So, why worry?   Volatility is part of the process, and that includes recessions and depressions.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5508 on: November 08, 2021, 06:56:51 AM »
Looks like everyone is expecting the market to always go up.

I donít. Iím old enough to remember 1987. And the tech meltdown. And 2008-2009. And more recently, December 2018 and, of course, March 2020. It is only a matter of time before something comes along to precipitate a market decline. We just canít see what it is.

That said, my portfolio of financial assets has increased to more than $3 million this year. Never would have predicted that, either.
I could have written this, but @frugalecon beat me to it. To which I'll add: The market going down is the same as the market having a "Sale". It may happen at irregular intervals, but it's predictable. Like a lot of mustachians, I consider it an opportunity, and opportunities for the prepared are something to look forward to.

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5509 on: November 08, 2021, 09:19:46 AM »
Looks like everyone is expecting the market to always go up.

I donít. Iím old enough to remember 1987. And the tech meltdown. And 2008-2009. And more recently, December 2018 and, of course, March 2020. It is only a matter of time before something comes along to precipitate a market decline. We just canít see what it is.

That said, my portfolio of financial assets has increased to more than $3 million this year. Never would have predicted that, either.

I too am old enough that I have also experience all of the above! We started monthly automated investing in index funds in 1998 and it has continued unbroken until now.

I just found an old spreadsheet and here are some progression numbers for our invested net worth:
December 2010 - $1.11M
March 2017 - $3.1M
November 2021 - $6.2M

Wow, this still feels unreal at times!

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5510 on: November 08, 2021, 11:29:40 AM »
Looks like everyone is expecting the market to always go up.

I donít. Iím old enough to remember 1987. And the tech meltdown. And 2008-2009. And more recently, December 2018 and, of course, March 2020. It is only a matter of time before something comes along to precipitate a market decline. We just canít see what it is.

That said, my portfolio of financial assets has increased to more than $3 million this year. Never would have predicted that, either.

I too am old enough that I have also experience all of the above! We started monthly automated investing in index funds in 1998 and it has continued unbroken until now.

I just found an old spreadsheet and here are some progression numbers for our invested net worth:
December 2010 - $1.11M
March 2017 - $3.1M
November 2021 - $6.2M

Wow, this still feels unreal at times!

You are in the ".... and Beyond!"  I guess the rules that define many of the rest of us no longer apply to you.

$6,200,000 X .04 = $248,000 per annum

That's $679.45 each day.

That's $28.31 each hour and not an 8 hour day but a 24 hour day.

frugalecon

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5511 on: November 08, 2021, 11:47:47 AM »
Looks like everyone is expecting the market to always go up.

I donít. Iím old enough to remember 1987. And the tech meltdown. And 2008-2009. And more recently, December 2018 and, of course, March 2020. It is only a matter of time before something comes along to precipitate a market decline. We just canít see what it is.

That said, my portfolio of financial assets has increased to more than $3 million this year. Never would have predicted that, either.
I could have written this, but @frugalecon beat me to it. To which I'll add: The market going down is the same as the market having a "Sale". It may happen at irregular intervals, but it's predictable. Like a lot of mustachians, I consider it an opportunity, and opportunities for the prepared are something to look forward to.

Hey @Dicey, JP Morgan is reputed to have said that ďIn bear markets, stocks return to their rightful owners.Ē https://theirrelevantinvestor.com/2020/04/03/their-rightful-owners/

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5512 on: November 08, 2021, 12:54:15 PM »

You are in the ".... and Beyond!"  I guess the rules that define many of the rest of us no longer apply to you.

$6,200,000 X .04 = $248,000 per annum

That's $679.45 each day.

That's $28.31 each hour and not an 8 hour day but a 24 hour day.

These are fun calculations for sure but the truth is we never expected to be able to save this much. In any case the actual money is going to be lower due to taxes. We are going to be paying a lot of tax when we eventually start taking money out from the tax deferred accounts. Very much a first-world problem :-)


frugalecon

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5513 on: November 08, 2021, 01:40:38 PM »
Looks like everyone is expecting the market to always go up.

I donít. Iím old enough to remember 1987. And the tech meltdown. And 2008-2009. And more recently, December 2018 and, of course, March 2020. It is only a matter of time before something comes along to precipitate a market decline. We just canít see what it is.

That said, my portfolio of financial assets has increased to more than $3 million this year. Never would have predicted that, either.

I too am old enough that I have also experience all of the above! We started monthly automated investing in index funds in 1998 and it has continued unbroken until now.

I just found an old spreadsheet and here are some progression numbers for our invested net worth:
December 2010 - $1.11M
March 2017 - $3.1M
November 2021 - $6.2M

Wow, this still feels unreal at times!

What I find interesting about the growth of your portfolio is that both periods reflect just about the same compound annual growth rate, in the range of 17.5% per annum. That is a pretty remarkable growth rate over an 11 year period. A lot of the effect of sustained compounding shows up towards the end of the compounding period. I would be surprised if the next 11 years have a comparable growth rate.

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5514 on: November 08, 2021, 02:25:41 PM »

What I find interesting about the growth of your portfolio is that both periods reflect just about the same compound annual growth rate, in the range of 17.5% per annum. That is a pretty remarkable growth rate over an 11 year period. A lot of the effect of sustained compounding shows up towards the end of the compounding period. I would be surprised if the next 11 years have a comparable growth rate.

According to the S&P 500 dividends reinvested Calculator, its 15.361% annualized return.

So, I did only a little bit better than the S&P 500. Probably this is because I did also buy the Dow 30 tracking ETF regularly for many years. I recall that after the 1987 crash, shares mostly stagnated until about 1995 when the tech bubble started expanding. Buying index funds in the early 1990s days felt like an exercise in futility.

frugalecon

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5515 on: November 08, 2021, 03:07:26 PM »

What I find interesting about the growth of your portfolio is that both periods reflect just about the same compound annual growth rate, in the range of 17.5% per annum. That is a pretty remarkable growth rate over an 11 year period. A lot of the effect of sustained compounding shows up towards the end of the compounding period. I would be surprised if the next 11 years have a comparable growth rate.

According to the S&P 500 dividends reinvested Calculator, its 15.361% annualized return.

So, I did only a little bit better than the S&P 500. Probably this is because I did also buy the Dow 30 tracking ETF regularly for many years. I recall that after the 1987 crash, shares mostly stagnated until about 1995 when the tech bubble started expanding. Buying index funds in the early 1990s days felt like an exercise in futility.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Of course, another factor contributing to the growth of your portfolio is your additions to the portfolio. Early in oneís investing career that accounts for a big chunk of the annual growth, less so later. I am still working, so still adding, but that only accounts for a small piece of the growth rate of my portfolio. This year net contributions will only be about 2.5% of the portfolio value at the beginning of the year. It is fun to get to the point where the portfolio largely just grows organically.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5516 on: November 09, 2021, 07:22:58 AM »

What I find interesting about the growth of your portfolio is that both periods reflect just about the same compound annual growth rate, in the range of 17.5% per annum. That is a pretty remarkable growth rate over an 11 year period. A lot of the effect of sustained compounding shows up towards the end of the compounding period. I would be surprised if the next 11 years have a comparable growth rate.

According to the S&P 500 dividends reinvested Calculator, its 15.361% annualized return.

So, I did only a little bit better than the S&P 500. Probably this is because I did also buy the Dow 30 tracking ETF regularly for many years. I recall that after the 1987 crash, shares mostly stagnated until about 1995 when the tech bubble started expanding. Buying index funds in the early 1990s days felt like an exercise in futility.

You seem to have beaten me pretty handily.  I looked back to match up those dates for me for invested assets:

December 2010 - $700k
March 2017 - $1.4M
November 2021 - $3.85M

It looks great for the latter period for me, but $800k of that increase was profit from a great business year I was able to invest at the beginning of 2019.
I'm guessing the drag was that my portfolio has been closer to VT than VTI/s&p500, and the international piece has definitely under-performed over the past decade.  I guess there's also one now significant part of my NW that built up completely in that time period I don't count in here (the $400k worth of 529s for all my kids that they are starting to use now)

I do agree its quite the revelation when you realize your income is such a small piece of your NW.  The main thing that convinces me re: my RE in a few months is not that I'm so certain the market can't perform so poorly that my ~4%SWR can't be tested, but rather that a couple more years of income wouldn't make that much a difference to it even if it did  (certainly not as much as tiny withdrawal tweaks could do over the years).

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5517 on: November 09, 2021, 03:57:01 PM »
I don't think I can go full Mustachian.  I'm going to need at least 2 million working for me before I retire.  I do not feel rich or comfortable having passed the 1 million mark.  I admire those who can make it work on less.

2014.  About 1 million.

2018.  About 2 million

2021   Almost 3.2 million


American GenX

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5518 on: November 09, 2021, 05:18:27 PM »
I don't think I can go full Mustachian.  I'm going to need at least 2 million working for me before I retire.  I do not feel rich or comfortable having passed the 1 million mark.  I admire those who can make it work on less.

2014.  About 1 million.
2018.  About 2 million
2021   Almost 3.2 million

I was about to agree with the post you replied to and add that I feel even less rich with inflation skyrocketing these days, despite having over $2M, then I noticed that post was from 2014!   You should be able to afford a nice lifestyle in Citrus County.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5519 on: November 09, 2021, 05:56:08 PM »
I don't think I can go full Mustachian.  I'm going to need at least 2 million working for me before I retire.  I do not feel rich or comfortable having passed the 1 million mark.  I admire those who can make it work on less.

2014.  About 1 million.
2018.  About 2 million
2021   Almost 3.2 million

I was about to agree with the post you replied to and add that I feel even less rich with inflation skyrocketing these days, despite having over $2M, then I noticed that post was from 2014!   You should be able to afford a nice lifestyle in Citrus County.

I'm not quite as astute as some on this thread.  I'm working another 18 months before tossing in the towel.  That should help bunker the savings.  Citrus County Florida is an affordable place to live as well as beautiful.   Good luck to you in your journey.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5520 on: November 11, 2021, 10:48:15 AM »
I know we generally don't count RE on this thread. Our rentals have seen a huge appreciation spike in the last year. We are in the process of re-fi-ing them, so I thought I'd look at the numbers.

Drumroll please...our RE portfolio, net of mortgages, is $2.67M. Add everything else in and we're in "Beyond" territory, which absolutely blows my mind. Squeeee!

It's theoretical, because our primary would go for over the estimates and I can't quite grok the new valueations on the rentals. That and we're not selling anything, but it was a pleasant surprise. I bought my first house in 1988 for $101k.

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5521 on: November 11, 2021, 11:18:25 AM »
Drumroll please...our RE portfolio, net of mortgages, is $2.67M. Add everything else in and we're in "Beyond" territory, which absolutely blows my mind. Squeeee!

Wow - that's amazing! What's your typical income from the rentals every year, if I may ask?

catccc

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5522 on: November 11, 2021, 02:24:48 PM »
Popping in this thread, although possibly slightly prematurely.

12/31/18 $932K
12/31/19 $1.265
12/31/20 $1.606

Random updates from this year:
02/22/21 $1.705
04/06/21 $1.760
09/28/21 $1.832
11/10/21 $1.926

This doesn't include primary home equity, which we just bought in July of this year.  We put down about $103K on a $513K home.  With our home equity, we are over the $2M mark.  I mostly like to hold that home equity off to the side and pretend it isn't a thing most of the time.  But today I want to pop in here and be excited about possibilities.

I always thought we'd quit working somewhere north of $2M, but I want some serious security.  We've lived lean for so long and maybe we can continue that, but maybe we want to do a lot of things to our new home that will cost $.  And the kiddos will get older and car insurance isn't cheap with teens.  And healthcare is a big wild card.  There's just a lot of unknowns and I would feel a lot better with twice as much stashed than we have now.  The problem is what happens if/when we get to that and I'd feel a lot better with twice as much as we will have stashed then...

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5523 on: November 11, 2021, 05:14:15 PM »
Drumroll please...our RE portfolio, net of mortgages, is $2.67M. Add everything else in and we're in "Beyond" territory, which absolutely blows my mind. Squeeee!

Wow - that's amazing! What's your typical income from the rentals every year, if I may ask?
Hmmm, not actually sure, for two reasons. DH handles all of that, plus we're in the middle of refinancing. First one is done, second one is approved and in process. The third one may not make sense to refi, so we'll see. We don't use the rental income for living expenses, so I don't pay as much attention as I used to. In fact, when the second re-fi is done, we're going to close the account with the bank that held the loans. Our MPP is we're not sure what to do with the balance. We were planning to use the money to buy another rental, but prices are nuts right now.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5524 on: November 12, 2021, 06:15:46 AM »

I always thought we'd quit working somewhere north of $2M, but I want some serious security.  We've lived lean for so long and maybe we can continue that, but maybe we want to do a lot of things to our new home that will cost $.  And the kiddos will get older and car insurance isn't cheap with teens.  And healthcare is a big wild card.  There's just a lot of unknowns and I would feel a lot better with twice as much stashed than we have now.  The problem is what happens if/when we get to that and I'd feel a lot better with twice as much as we will have stashed then...

My kids are all teens now and they seem to keep getting more expensive.  Driving is near and when it does we can expect insurance to increase by $2-3k with the first one, not sure what happens when the other two get there.  Then college will come. 

But all those expenses are temporary (or transitory in FED speak) and mostly included in our spending plans.   So when we get the kids off the payroll and overhead we hopefully/likely will find that we oversaved and have quite a bit more than needed.  But there are plenty of things that could also detail that too.  So who knows

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5525 on: November 12, 2021, 07:00:33 AM »

I always thought we'd quit working somewhere north of $2M, but I want some serious security.  We've lived lean for so long and maybe we can continue that, but maybe we want to do a lot of things to our new home that will cost $.  And the kiddos will get older and car insurance isn't cheap with teens.  And healthcare is a big wild card.  There's just a lot of unknowns and I would feel a lot better with twice as much stashed than we have now.  The problem is what happens if/when we get to that and I'd feel a lot better with twice as much as we will have stashed then...

My kids are all teens now and they seem to keep getting more expensive.  Driving is near and when it does we can expect insurance to increase by $2-3k with the first one, not sure what happens when the other two get there.  Then college will come. 

But all those expenses are temporary (or transitory in FED speak) and mostly included in our spending plans.   So when we get the kids off the payroll and overhead we hopefully/likely will find that we oversaved and have quite a bit more than needed.  But there are plenty of things that could also detail that too.  So who knows

Hitting FI gave me the breathing room and clarity to figure out what I really wanted.  Turned out, once I didn't 'have to' work, I actually enjoyed the whole set up a whole lot more.  Our lifestyle has inflated a bit in real terms (quite a bit in nominal terms!) so having cash flow does have its upside, although we'd be fine with the markets being what they have been.  Another upside of continued work, there's a lot of talk of raises and larger bonuses.  Not that I need more, but it still feels nice.

On a side note, having a routine built around my work during the Pandemic has been a life-saver for me.  This is probably just how I'm built, and I look forward to travel and attending events in ER, but I imagine 2020 and most of 2021 would've been a slog.   
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 07:05:36 AM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5526 on: November 12, 2021, 10:47:59 AM »

My kids are all teens now and they seem to keep getting more expensive.  Driving is near and when it does we can expect insurance to increase by $2-3k with the first one, not sure what happens when the other two get there.  Then college will come. 

But all those expenses are temporary (or transitory in FED speak) and mostly included in our spending plans.   So when we get the kids off the payroll and overhead we hopefully/likely will find that we oversaved and have quite a bit more than needed.  But there are plenty of things that could also detail that too.  So who knows

Seeing the word "temporary" has me sitting back a bit with a smirk on my face thinking "we'll see".

I have a 25 year old and a 21 year old.  I'll let you know when any of them are off, out of the house and independent.  I'd honestly estimate in a decade, perhaps.  Not before.  On the bright side, the $300k for engineering school is behind us for son #1 and he has an excellent job that's a perfect fit and pays very well.  He also owns 2 cool cars (new STi and Honda S2000).  Sure...some kids graduate, find a job miles away and are truly out of the house.  I have not experienced that beyond myself when I graduated college.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5527 on: November 12, 2021, 12:23:13 PM »

My kids are all teens now and they seem to keep getting more expensive.  Driving is near and when it does we can expect insurance to increase by $2-3k with the first one, not sure what happens when the other two get there.  Then college will come. 

But all those expenses are temporary (or transitory in FED speak) and mostly included in our spending plans.   So when we get the kids off the payroll and overhead we hopefully/likely will find that we oversaved and have quite a bit more than needed.  But there are plenty of things that could also detail that too.  So who knows


Seeing the word "temporary" has me sitting back a bit with a smirk on my face thinking "we'll see".

I have a 25 year old and a 21 year old.  I'll let you know when any of them are off, out of the house and independent.  I'd honestly estimate in a decade, perhaps.  Not before.  On the bright side, the $300k for engineering school is behind us for son #1 and he has an excellent job that's a perfect fit and pays very well.  He also owns 2 cool cars (new STi and Honda S2000).  Sure...some kids graduate, find a job miles away and are truly out of the house.  I have not experienced that beyond myself when I graduated college.

Wow!  Three hundred thousand to get a degree!  Times have changed and not all for the better.  Was it a state school or a private school?

tooqk4u22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5528 on: November 12, 2021, 01:21:11 PM »

My kids are all teens now and they seem to keep getting more expensive.  Driving is near and when it does we can expect insurance to increase by $2-3k with the first one, not sure what happens when the other two get there.  Then college will come. 

But all those expenses are temporary (or transitory in FED speak) and mostly included in our spending plans.   So when we get the kids off the payroll and overhead we hopefully/likely will find that we oversaved and have quite a bit more than needed.  But there are plenty of things that could also detail that too.  So who knows

Seeing the word "temporary" has me sitting back a bit with a smirk on my face thinking "we'll see".

I have a 25 year old and a 21 year old.  I'll let you know when any of them are off, out of the house and independent.  I'd honestly estimate in a decade, perhaps.  Not before.  On the bright side, the $300k for engineering school is behind us for son #1 and he has an excellent job that's a perfect fit and pays very well.  He also owns 2 cool cars (new STi and Honda S2000).  Sure...some kids graduate, find a job miles away and are truly out of the house.  I have not experienced that beyond myself when I graduated college.

Well if #1 has a good job and two cool cars I would think he should be firmly on his own dime.  So then that leaves #2 as the ?

savingstldad

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5529 on: November 12, 2021, 01:58:33 PM »
I have my oldest in college now.  He did well in high school but received pretty standard scholarships.  With room/board/tuition and a comprehensive meal plan it costs me about $6500 per semester to send him to the University of Missouri.  I'm not really shocked by some of these costs I see thrown around for college because I've been hearing about it for years.  I just thought I'd share my experience on that front so people know it doesn't have to be so insanely expensive.

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5530 on: November 12, 2021, 02:10:32 PM »
Public universities in NC are fairly inexpensive, it's in the state constitution.
Some are even less expensive, five NC universities are extremely inexpensive.  For example, one near us is $3500 per year (plus books) for those who live at home and commute to school, assuming they're on their parent's health insurance. 

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5531 on: November 12, 2021, 02:47:04 PM »
There is a great deal of variation in the opinions of what parents should do for their kids' college educations and what the best route is.  Two areas of great variation are (1) how much the parents should pay, and (2) what the "best" college choice is for the student.

Some parents are willing to and thing it is "best" to pay for the best school a kid can get into, and that it's worth the $75K a year to go to Rice or Oberlin or MIT or Yale.  The value of connections, top notch jobs, and the college experience of being taught by Nobel laureates and eating at the dining hall with the children of famous people is worth it to some.

Others think a degree is more of a commodity or checklist item and it's the student themselves who determines the outcome in terms of job and career.  These parents can see that a school that is adequate to good can be an order of magnitude cheaper and maybe it's better for the kid to have a college degree from an in-state public and $270K in the bank.

I think there are elements of truth to the above two endpoints and that things vary across the entire spectrum in between.  I've observed great variation in my own family in terms of which schools the students have chosen, the out-of-pocket price tags, and the results.  Most of us are working with small sample sizes of only a few children, and we want to believe that our chosen strategy was a good one.  The kid who ended up paying $300K for their education and got a great job - well, maybe they needed that degree from that school to get that job, maybe not.  The kid who got the public school degree for $30K may have had an entirely different life if they had just roomed at Princeton with the kid of a Silicon Valley robotics startup.  We can't roll back time and test the counterfactual.

I'm glad people think about it a lot and put a lot of effort into it.

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5532 on: November 12, 2021, 05:07:31 PM »
I don't think I can go full Mustachian.  I'm going to need at least 2 million working for me before I retire.  I do not feel rich or comfortable having passed the 1 million mark.  I admire those who can make it work on less.

2014.  About 1 million.
2018.  About 2 million
2021   Almost 3.2 million

I was about to agree with the post you replied to and add that I feel even less rich with inflation skyrocketing these days, despite having over $2M, then I noticed that post was from 2014!   You should be able to afford a nice lifestyle in Citrus County.

I'm not quite as astute as some on this thread.  I'm working another 18 months before tossing in the towel.  That should help bunker the savings.  Citrus County Florida is an affordable place to live as well as beautiful.   Good luck to you in your journey.

I understand @Bateaux , lately I've been thinking of $3.25M as my "number" but this is still a few years in the future for me and I can certainly see how if I were just hitting that mark today, I would have some reservations about pulling the cord right now.  Namely 6.2% inflation, a supply chain trainwreck and a pandemic that seems to be holding on longer than it should.   I suppose that's the challenge with planning that far out....once you get there you can't help but to re-evaluate in light of the current circumstances that you find yourself in.  Good luck to you!

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5533 on: November 12, 2021, 06:19:13 PM »
My original FIRE number was a million dollars by age 40. Then we hit 1.5 and started thinking seriously about it. Then the pandemic hit and I was like, WFH and still get big bucks, cool! Now weíre at $3M and just enjoying the ride until I want to get off of it. In the meantime, maybe 3 will go to 4 or beyond, and that wouldnít be bad. But we figured out a couple of years ago that we could maintain our current lifestyle on two minimum wage jobs. Frankly Iíd prefer to make 15x minimum wage and have more freedom in my work even if there is some more stress. The stress level goes way down when the worst thing that could happen is I donít have to deal with it anymore. Keep going as long as you feel like it, Bateaux.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5534 on: November 12, 2021, 08:15:48 PM »
Yeh, as Arcturus noted, it looks like the inflation is here.

https://www.reuters.com/business/us-consumer-prices-surge-weekly-jobless-claims-fall-2021-11-10/

They say it's a "global shortage" of workers.

We do live in interesting times.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5535 on: November 12, 2021, 10:30:17 PM »
With no clue as how to turn this jumbled mess into a paycheck replacement, I'm going to move the goal posts out another 500K and see if that brings more clarity.   1.5 million was gonna be it.  Silly me.  Then 2 million.  Nope not a clue yet.  Then 2.5 million.  Nope, if anything I'm more nervous than ever.  Moving on to 3 million. That's got to be it right?  We'll see.  Probably more an age now than a number. Everthing gets easier taxwise at 55.  1077 days to go.

Well the 3 million mark was reached.  Lots of days have passed.   That 1077 days are now 548.  In no time that will be less than a year.  I think my wife will retire in September, 2022.  May 2023 for me.  I have it better than ever at work, almost scary easy.
The inflation threat isn't all that great for those in this thread. Most here have had a 500K or more portfolio increase in the last year alone!  We're not worried about the price of gasoline all that much.  We're headed to our Florida house Monday for a week.  Let's say it takes 75 gallons round trip.  At $2 a gallon that's $150 dollars.  At $4 a gallon it's $300.   You think $150 will keep me from going to my house?  Our wealth increased over $1500 dollars a day, everyday in the past 365 days.  I just gleefully filled the 34 gallon tank of my Expedition.  Before inflation even puts a dent in our budget, the common folks will be in the streets with pitchforks.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 11:49:19 PM by Bateaux »

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5536 on: November 14, 2021, 08:07:58 AM »
Public universities in NC are fairly inexpensive, it's in the state constitution.
Some are even less expensive, five NC universities are extremely inexpensive.  For example, one near us is $3500 per year (plus books) for those who live at home and commute to school, assuming they're on their parent's health insurance.

I've certainly seen how big a difference states can make.  I went to school myself in NC, and have nieces/nephews doing that now.  But I'm in PA where the large state schools tuition is twice what they are in NC.  Given costs of living are such a big part of school costs, and the fact private schools tend to give large discounts vs. state schools, I've found the costs of our private schools to be fairly similar to the large public universities, something I never thought would have been the case before I lived here.  The smaller state schools in PA are the 'true' state schools (as far as solid funding goes) and priced more like NC.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 08:11:08 AM by Much Fishing to Do »

lhamo

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5537 on: November 14, 2021, 11:41:23 AM »
There are several regional public university tuition exchange programs that can drop the cost for students attending a public university that is outside their state but within the program's region -- I am most familiar with the Western University Exchange program, but it looks like there are similar programs for certain states in the Northeast, Midwest and South:

https://www.nasfaa.org/State_Regional_Tuition_Exchanges

The way WUE works is that the participating universities charge out of state students applying through the consortium only 150% of the in-state tuition.  In some cases that means tuition for an out of state school may be lower than in state tuition costs.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5538 on: November 14, 2021, 08:08:34 PM »
There are several regional public university tuition exchange programs that can drop the cost for students attending a public university that is outside their state but within the program's region -- I am most familiar with the Western University Exchange program, but it looks like there are similar programs for certain states in the Northeast, Midwest and South:

https://www.nasfaa.org/State_Regional_Tuition_Exchanges

The way WUE works is that the participating universities charge out of state students applying through the consortium only 150% of the in-state tuition.  In some cases that means tuition for an out of state school may be lower than in state tuition costs.

I think progressive states do better in providing educational options in that manner.

Minnesota has reciprocity agreements with Wisconsin, North Dakota, and South Dakota. It also has an agreement with the Canadian province of Manitoba, and a limited agreement with Iowa Lakes Community College in northwestern Iowa.

ixtap

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5539 on: November 15, 2021, 12:34:45 PM »
I guess some people would think it funny to realize that there are couple of multi millionaires hiking to the airport like college students. Don't think anyone is going to see us hiking to the airport and realize that, though.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5540 on: November 15, 2021, 04:32:59 PM »
Holy crap!  What have I gotten myself into!
https://teamrubiconusa.org/
I've joined Team Rubicon.  Team Rubicon is a rapid disaster response civilian organization.  I've been training for this my while life.  About 80 percent of the members are prior military.  I saw them working in my state of Louisiana helping Hurricane Ida victims.  I was doing this anyway in my own home town.  But, disasters strike everywhere.  The thousands of hours I've trained for this shouldn't be wasted.  It's not a paid position in money, but we've got plenty of that.  It's about love and giving back. 
« Last Edit: November 15, 2021, 04:39:28 PM by Bateaux »

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5541 on: November 15, 2021, 05:47:07 PM »
Holy crap!  What have I gotten myself into!
https://teamrubiconusa.org/
I've joined Team Rubicon.  Team Rubicon is a rapid disaster response civilian organization.  I've been training for this my while life.  About 80 percent of the members are prior military.  I saw them working in my state of Louisiana helping Hurricane Ida victims.  I was doing this anyway in my own home town.  But, disasters strike everywhere.  The thousands of hours I've trained for this shouldn't be wasted.  It's not a paid position in money, but we've got plenty of that.  It's about love and giving back.

That's a great idea, and thank you for volunteering.   But the name gives me the creeps given the political climate amongst the alt-right.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5542 on: November 15, 2021, 06:18:09 PM »
Holy crap!  What have I gotten myself into!
https://teamrubiconusa.org/
I've joined Team Rubicon.  Team Rubicon is a rapid disaster response civilian organization.  I've been training for this my while life.  About 80 percent of the members are prior military.  I saw them working in my state of Louisiana helping Hurricane Ida victims.  I was doing this anyway in my own home town.  But, disasters strike everywhere.  The thousands of hours I've trained for this shouldn't be wasted.  It's not a paid position in money, but we've got plenty of that.  It's about love and giving back.

That's a great idea, and thank you for volunteering.   But the name gives me the creeps given the political climate amongst the alt-right.
I think they have contained the politics raging across the country.   From what I've learned they are open all and would be opposed to alt right movements.  They promote a culture of mutual respect and care.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5543 on: November 16, 2021, 06:03:17 AM »
Holy crap!  What have I gotten myself into!
https://teamrubiconusa.org/
I've joined Team Rubicon.  Team Rubicon is a rapid disaster response civilian organization.  I've been training for this my while life.  About 80 percent of the members are prior military.  I saw them working in my state of Louisiana helping Hurricane Ida victims.  I was doing this anyway in my own home town.  But, disasters strike everywhere.  The thousands of hours I've trained for this shouldn't be wasted.  It's not a paid position in money, but we've got plenty of that.  It's about love and giving back.

That's a great idea, and thank you for volunteering.   But the name gives me the creeps given the political climate amongst the alt-right.
I think they have contained the politics raging across the country.   From what I've learned they are open all and would be opposed to alt right movements.  They promote a culture of mutual respect and care.

The name Team Rubicon makes me think of Jeeps.

The link to their website shows that they do a lot of good.  A quick glance didn't show any overt politics.  I think helping people is kind of a left wing thing myself, i.e. soup kitchens, etc.  It's good you are putting your skills to the best use possible,......helping people who need it.   And,.....you might just get great satisfaction doing it.

If this climate change thing is true like the people on the internet say, you might be busy with lots of hurricanes in the next few years.  Hurricanes won't care about the politics.

You are setting a good example for some of us.

I guess I could do something like that as I pass into the "......and Beyond!"


SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5544 on: November 16, 2021, 07:15:25 AM »
The name Team Rubicon makes me think of Jeeps.
It makes me think of starting a coup or a civil war.

Crossing the Rubicon is the historical phrase with that meaning.  It goes all the way back to when Julius Caesar destroyed the Roman Republic and became dictator.   So when a bunch of military-oriented people get together under such a name, particularly in a year where we've already had an attempt at destroying our Republic and we've got retired generals fomenting treason, it gives me the creeps.

Glad to know that apparently the name was picked for a jeep.

MoseyingAlong

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5545 on: November 16, 2021, 07:28:58 AM »
The name Team Rubicon makes me think of Jeeps.
It makes me think of starting a coup or a civil war.

Crossing the Rubicon is the historical phrase with that meaning.  It goes all the way back to when Julius Caesar destroyed the Roman Republic and became dictator.   So when a bunch of military-oriented people get together under such a name, particularly in a year where we've already had an attempt at destroying our Republic and we've got retired generals fomenting treason, it gives me the creeps.

Glad to know that apparently the name was picked for a jeep.

Team Rubicon was founded in 2010.
I find their story and both parts of their mission compelling. I've signed up with them but haven't deployed yet.

https://teamrubiconusa.org/story/
"When Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon at the head of his legions and marched on Rome, it marked a point of no return. The phrase ďcrossing the RubiconĒ has since survived in reference to any group committing itself to a risky course of action.

Crossing over the Artibonite River, the natural border between the Dominican Republic and Haiti, the small team of eight volunteers called themselves ďTeam RubiconĒ in reference to the Rubicon River in Rome Ė by crossing their Rubicon, the team acknowledged they were irrevocably committed to their task of helping those in need."

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5546 on: November 16, 2021, 11:12:02 PM »
MoseyingAlong, very happy to see you may be getting involved.  They appear to be a good group.  I think their hearts are in the right place.  Adopting their culture would be very natural for me. 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 11:14:48 PM by Bateaux »

Extramedium

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5547 on: November 19, 2021, 09:30:06 AM »
MoseyingAlong, very happy to see you may be getting involved.  They appear to be a good group.  I think their hearts are in the right place.  Adopting their culture would be very natural for me.

Yes, organization looks great, doing ethical work.  Good job making yourself available for deployment.  Thank you!

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5548 on: November 20, 2021, 11:01:26 AM »
I just read through the active topic about living on 25k or less.

What do you $2M-$4M'ers think about this? We definitely don't live on $25k per year. On the other hand, I think we are very low spenders by the standards of people in our income group. For many years, we lived on my salary and saved almost all of my wife's salary. We have lived in the same house for over 25 years and still have modest cars that we keep for a minimum of ten years. We really don't buy a lot of stuff in general and we don't travel a lot either. We don't have any expensive hobbies either.

Our expenses are higher than many (except probably the Bay Area crowd), mainly because of where we choose to live - right across the Hudson river from Manhattan. But we like it here and have no plans of moving and we can afford it.

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5549 on: November 20, 2021, 12:14:04 PM »
What do you $2M-$4M'ers think about this?

We don't and haven't had any desire to do so in this millennium. 

We have hobbies, we want to travel, and watching out spending to get it to that level would have been too much work.

Besides, we have a special needs child who can't take care of themselves, so it was essential that we plan for an extra extra extra level of financial safety so there would be money to assist in taking good care of her.