Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 603324 times)

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3650 on: August 09, 2020, 04:43:21 PM »
@2sk22 .. Dull is good. I only started investing in index funds 17 years ago and I'm roughly at half of what you got ($2.4M invested).

Seems like a not believable sum to me!

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3651 on: August 09, 2020, 05:32:53 PM »
@2sk22 .. Dull is good. I only started investing in index funds 17 years ago and I'm roughly at half of what you got ($2.4M invested).

Seems like a not believable sum to me!

Add 7 years or so and you get one more (nominal) doubling, so it sounds about right.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3652 on: August 09, 2020, 07:29:04 PM »
Getting back on topic.. I decided to check out our networth today.

Holy crap We are currently about $100k above our previous all time high!

I can't believe the stock and bond markets will stay up around these levels with the economy in tatters but we'll take it for now.

I just checked and we are now at
Spoiler: show
5.2 million
in invested assets - our highest ever too :-)

I think anyone with more than $4M should be declared as a "THEM" and thrown out the group..;)

Naah. Theyíre an ďand beyondĒ and an inspiration to the rest of us to get our acts together. :-p

Solidarity dontchaknow.

You'll have to get your inspiration elsewhere. I must surely have the dullest story of anyone here: I was paid reasonably well for developing software for 29 years and discovered index funds early :-)

...and if Iíd followed your ďdullĒ strategy when I shouldíve, Iíd be in the 8 digit club today.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3653 on: August 10, 2020, 01:38:19 AM »
You could live off the lump sum for 5 years while you set up a Roth conversion ladder. This would be more flexible than SEPP, which you would have to carry through to 59.5, rather than 55.
Does the Roth conversion ladder make sense since my spouse wants to keep working the next 10 years? I was kinda pushing the ladder out of mind since he will keep working but maybe I should revisit that.
Sorry if this is obvious to everyone but me, but is it not possible for the two of you to just live on your spouse's income if he intends to keep working?

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3654 on: August 10, 2020, 03:26:08 AM »
@2sk22 .. Dull is good. I only started investing in index funds 17 years ago and I'm roughly at half of what you got ($2.4M invested).

Seems like a not believable sum to me!

I started regular index fund investing in the early 1990s. You have to remember that the market was flat for years back then. I really thought I was making a big mistake as the S&P index rose so slowly but having read interviews with Jack Bogle and Burton Malkiel, I kept on the course. Then of course the late 90s bubble sent everything upwards

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3655 on: August 10, 2020, 06:23:43 AM »
You could live off the lump sum for 5 years while you set up a Roth conversion ladder. This would be more flexible than SEPP, which you would have to carry through to 59.5, rather than 55.
Does the Roth conversion ladder make sense since my spouse wants to keep working the next 10 years? I was kinda pushing the ladder out of mind since he will keep working but maybe I should revisit that.
Sorry if this is obvious to everyone but me, but is it not possible for the two of you to just live on your spouse's income if he intends to keep working?
Short answer is yes.

Longer answer is much more complicated. Iíve always been the major bread winner. We canít keep our current lifestyle just on his salary alone. I would classify our lifestyle as upper middle class. Weíd have to downsize a lot. Iím willing to do that. If I was single Iíd already be doing that. Spouse doesnít understand why I want to retire and while he would downsize, it would cause tension.

Iíve also go back and forth on downsizing because my mom is aging and will need help. She lives alone right now and I donít know how sustainable that is. Iím the only family member with the real means to help support her, including come living with us.

Live is never clear cut, is it?


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Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3656 on: August 10, 2020, 10:03:47 AM »
You could live off the lump sum for 5 years while you set up a Roth conversion ladder. This would be more flexible than SEPP, which you would have to carry through to 59.5, rather than 55.
Does the Roth conversion ladder make sense since my spouse wants to keep working the next 10 years? I was kinda pushing the ladder out of mind since he will keep working but maybe I should revisit that.
Sorry if this is obvious to everyone but me, but is it not possible for the two of you to just live on your spouse's income if he intends to keep working?
Short answer is yes.

Longer answer is much more complicated. Iíve always been the major bread winner. We canít keep our current lifestyle just on his salary alone. I would classify our lifestyle as upper middle class. Weíd have to downsize a lot. Iím willing to do that. If I was single Iíd already be doing that. Spouse doesnít understand why I want to retire and while he would downsize, it would cause tension.

Iíve also go back and forth on downsizing because my mom is aging and will need help. She lives alone right now and I donít know how sustainable that is. Iím the only family member with the real means to help support her, including come living with us.

Live is never clear cut, is it?


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I'm kinda waking up to that reality as well.  We've had some lifestyle creep ourselves.  But we also will have to build a bigger pile as a safety net for family.  Who knows maybe it will be unecessary.  Our work conditions for our great income level is tolerable a bit longer.  Just working till 55 will make an incredible increase in the amount of good we are capable of.  We'll be approaching 4 million by then and coasting to 5 million and beyond.  We don't have grandchildren yet, but having the ability to help them is also a consideration.  There is a tipping point to where it's not just about you anymore.  When you build wealth beyond 5 million you are in my opinion morally obligated to help the greater good.  That whole rich man and camel through the eye of a needle starts to apply.

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3657 on: August 10, 2020, 11:19:28 AM »
Hit $2.9M last week.  :D

I built my stache the way the most successful Fidelity 401k investors did.  (well, not counting those who were dead)  I ignored my accounts for decades.  When I decided to pay attention so I could see costs, it literally took me a year to figure out what accounts we had from past employers and stuff my dad got for me.  When I got everything on the spread sheet, I had $1.56M.  Always living like college students has made "living below your means" child's play. 

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3658 on: August 10, 2020, 12:07:56 PM »
You could live off the lump sum for 5 years while you set up a Roth conversion ladder. This would be more flexible than SEPP, which you would have to carry through to 59.5, rather than 55.
Does the Roth conversion ladder make sense since my spouse wants to keep working the next 10 years? I was kinda pushing the ladder out of mind since he will keep working but maybe I should revisit that.
Sorry if this is obvious to everyone but me, but is it not possible for the two of you to just live on your spouse's income if he intends to keep working?
Short answer is yes.

Longer answer is much more complicated. Iíve always been the major bread winner. We canít keep our current lifestyle just on his salary alone. I would classify our lifestyle as upper middle class. Weíd have to downsize a lot. Iím willing to do that. If I was single Iíd already be doing that. Spouse doesnít understand why I want to retire and while he would downsize, it would cause tension.

Iíve also go back and forth on downsizing because my mom is aging and will need help. She lives alone right now and I donít know how sustainable that is. Iím the only family member with the real means to help support her, including come living with us.

Live is never clear cut, is it?


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I'm kinda waking up to that reality as well.  We've had some lifestyle creep ourselves.  But we also will have to build a bigger pile as a safety net for family.  Who knows maybe it will be unecessary.  Our work conditions for our great income level is tolerable a bit longer.  Just working till 55 will make an incredible increase in the amount of good we are capable of.  We'll be approaching 4 million by then and coasting to 5 million and beyond.  We don't have grandchildren yet, but having the ability to help them is also a consideration.  There is a tipping point to where it's not just about you anymore.  When you build wealth beyond 5 million you are in my opinion morally obligated to help the greater good.  That whole rich man and camel through the eye of a needle starts to apply.
Agreed. Plus for me if I work another 2.5 years it makes a huge difference in our retirement and wonít have to really downsize much. I can then retire and help take care of mom and do some volunteering. Sounds short but it feels like forever since works sucks. No need for me to take victory laps after that and keep accumulating wealth. Retire and help others which I havenít done enough of yet.


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2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3659 on: August 10, 2020, 12:29:21 PM »
decades.  When I decided to pay attention so I could see costs, it literally took me a year to figure out what accounts we had from past employers and stuff my dad got for me.  When I got everything on the spread sheet, I had $1.56M.  Always living like college students has made "living below your means" child's play.

I too spent a big part of 2019 consolidating my various brokerage and retirement accounts. It felt like a big achievement when I could see everything in Quicken on one page.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3660 on: August 10, 2020, 01:22:45 PM »
decades.  When I decided to pay attention so I could see costs, it literally took me a year to figure out what accounts we had from past employers and stuff my dad got for me.  When I got everything on the spread sheet, I had $1.56M.  Always living like college students has made "living below your means" child's play.

I too spent a big part of 2019 consolidating my various brokerage and retirement accounts. It felt like a big achievement when I could see everything in Quicken on one page.

oh gee, tell me about it! I had accounts all over the place and I have finally chiseled them down to 6 .. Well the Fidelity and Vanguard pages have multiple accounts but at least they are all on the same webpage.

We found that Vanguard would also combine the accounts of DW and I because I "gave" her my accounts. Now I just log onto her account and it gives me all of the Vanguard goodness on one page.

I felt the urge to use something Like Mint so I (and more importantly DW if I should get hit by a bus) could see everything in one place. I never felt comfortable with giving my passwords to a third party however.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3661 on: August 10, 2020, 01:25:27 PM »
@Bateaux So the Camel and eye of the needle thing only happens at above $5M?

Phew, thats a relief..I can continue to be completely selfish for a while yet..:)

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3662 on: August 10, 2020, 01:39:15 PM »
@Bateaux So the Camel and eye of the needle thing only happens at above $5M?

Phew, thats a relief..I can continue to be completely selfish for a while yet..:)
You read my mind.

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3663 on: August 10, 2020, 01:52:32 PM »
@Bateaux So the Camel and eye of the needle thing only happens at above $5M?

Phew, thats a relief..I can continue to be completely selfish for a while yet..:)

Generosity is good for the heart and the soul.  :)

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3664 on: August 10, 2020, 01:54:24 PM »


I'm kinda waking up to that reality as well.  We've had some lifestyle creep ourselves.  But we also will have to build a bigger pile as a safety net for family.  Who knows maybe it will be unecessary.  Our work conditions for our great income level is tolerable a bit longer.  Just working till 55 will make an incredible increase in the amount of good we are capable of.  We'll be approaching 4 million by then and coasting to 5 million and beyond.  We don't have grandchildren yet, but having the ability to help them is also a consideration.  There is a tipping point to where it's not just about you anymore.  When you build wealth beyond 5 million you are in my opinion morally obligated to help the greater good.  That whole rich man and camel through the eye of a needle starts to apply.

Noblesse oblige FTW.

The goal for us is generational wealth so there never really is an end number anyway.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3665 on: August 10, 2020, 10:15:37 PM »
Hit $2.9M last week.  :D

I built my stache the way the most successful Fidelity 401k investors did.  (well, not counting those who were dead)  I ignored my accounts for decades.  When I decided to pay attention so I could see costs, it literally took me a year to figure out what accounts we had from past employers and stuff my dad got for me.  When I got everything on the spread sheet, I had $1.56M.  Always living like college students has made "living below your means" child's play.

It could have been me that wrote that except for the part about the dad.  My dad called us "lower middle class."  He never gave me a car on graduation, but I gave one to him a few years later.  I remember a conversation with my brother noting I was living like a college student quite a number of years ago.  He told me to keep doing it.  I did. Now I am able to post nonsense herein.

It's Summer and the stock markets are rising.  I hope today won't be black Tuesday.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3666 on: August 11, 2020, 10:56:02 AM »
@Bateaux So the Camel and eye of the needle thing only happens at above $5M?

Phew, thats a relief..I can continue to be completely selfish for a while yet..:)
You read my mind.

We've been doing good stuff for over ten years now, pre seven figures.  Y'all know what I'm about.  Jackasses.  Y'all are already probably helping people and causes.  Ours is, children with cancer.  If we end up oversaving, they will get what we don't need.

MOD EDIT: Please don't be rude. Forum rule #1.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 10:43:00 PM by arebelspy »

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3667 on: August 11, 2020, 11:21:51 AM »
Children with Cancer is a bad thing.  Thank you.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3668 on: August 11, 2020, 10:49:00 PM »
I've got five more weeks left of work!!
This past week I started to feel very at peace with my decision to leave. I think I'm actually ready. It feels great.

Checked on the net worth today. $3M total. $2.9M without the house. That includes $62k in kids 529s though. And $30k that we are still planning to spend on a new car for DH. I'm not sure what he's waiting for on that. Guess he's just trying to get every last mile out of old the old Accord.

As I was checking on NW, I realized that when we hit $4.3M a 3% draw down will bring us $130k a year which is exactly what we bring home (net of taxes and retirement etc, $240k gross) right now with both of us working and it is more than enough for all the things. Including crazy tuition. That's nuts. So unless we have another crazy drop or a few years of really stagnant returns, we should hit $4.3M relatively easy. Not that we really need, or even want to do that, I just predict it will happen.
At that realization made me really glad I put in my notice. I do not want to look back and have too much money but feeling like I didn't have enough time to do the things I want, with the people I want.
Life is good, and kind of unbelievable.


This is awesome!  Do you mind me asking how old you are?  Congratulations!

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3669 on: August 11, 2020, 11:57:15 PM »
I've got five more weeks left of work!!
This past week I started to feel very at peace with my decision to leave. I think I'm actually ready. It feels great.

Checked on the net worth today. $3M total. $2.9M without the house. That includes $62k in kids 529s though. And $30k that we are still planning to spend on a new car for DH. I'm not sure what he's waiting for on that. Guess he's just trying to get every last mile out of old the old Accord.

As I was checking on NW, I realized that when we hit $4.3M a 3% draw down will bring us $130k a year which is exactly what we bring home (net of taxes and retirement etc, $240k gross) right now with both of us working and it is more than enough for all the things. Including crazy tuition. That's nuts. So unless we have another crazy drop or a few years of really stagnant returns, we should hit $4.3M relatively easy. Not that we really need, or even want to do that, I just predict it will happen.
At that realization made me really glad I put in my notice. I do not want to look back and have too much money but feeling like I didn't have enough time to do the things I want, with the people I want.
Life is good, and kind of unbelievable.


This is awesome!  Do you mind me asking how old you are?  Congratulations!

Thanks! We are 43. Friday is my last day of work. My DH is planning to keep going for awhile still.

LightTripper

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3670 on: August 12, 2020, 03:12:47 AM »
That is great @BeanCounter : must feel really exciting!  Do you have plans for immediately post-work, or are you just going to decompress for a bit?

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3671 on: August 12, 2020, 07:28:13 AM »
It seems to be more difficult to quit when you have a larger portfolio. Money keeps to increase at a faster speed.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3672 on: August 12, 2020, 12:29:21 PM »
Congrats, @BeanCounter ! I find it so interesting to look at split of assets/net worth for different people, in different areas of the country. Real estate is a much bigger part of our net worth (bay area), with a plan to relocate somewhere else in the future, freeing up a large portion of that asset into investments.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3673 on: August 13, 2020, 05:08:19 AM »
Were at about 2.45M invested in addition add to that a 800k+ paid for house. Being fired now in my 6th year (56 in October) We didnt start indexing till about 7 years ago. What hurts us the most is 4 kids (2 in college 1 had a sports scholarship and walked away from after 2 years the other still on full ride be we have 2 still in HS) but were still above our all time high. Our rate of spending we easily can live on 3% but were dumping $ into our home when its all said in done probably will be over 200k top 250k BUT will fortunately get it back living on a lake house in a very high demand area. We would be higher too but as the market has been rising i have been taking more out then I need and am over 25% cash. It seemed like a smart idea with covid and all and still might be BUT worse case I will live off cash and reinvest on large dip. Not going to lie I like having the cash (cds, VMMXX etc..) to pay for my projects and stuff I personally cant do but its cost me some upside as of now.

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3674 on: August 13, 2020, 08:14:17 AM »
Well, I sold in the dip and bought bonds.  I would count that as cash, too.   I just keep flunking the Boglehead strategy.  Self flagellation in progress...

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3675 on: August 13, 2020, 10:14:11 AM »
So getting close to house build being done. Being asked today if I want to lock in 30yr fixed at 2.49 today????? Is this real? Will I never move or prepay a mortgage again?????


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Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3676 on: August 13, 2020, 10:16:52 AM »
So getting close to house build being done. Being asked today if I want to lock in 30yr fixed at 2.49 today????? Is this real? Will I never move or prepay a mortgage again?????


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Great rate.   Definitely no need to prepay.

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3677 on: August 14, 2020, 05:14:37 AM »
That is great @BeanCounter : must feel really exciting!  Do you have plans for immediately post-work, or are you just going to decompress for a bit?
We are headed out to the beach for a week and then it will be time to get the kids back to school. I do have a couple home projects to work on. I think that will help me transition a bit. I expect the first few weeks will be rough. If the kids are back at school and my DH is back in the office, itís going to feel a bit odd.
A neighbor put a RETIREMENT card with a gift certificate to a local wine shop in my mailbox last night. Which was super sweet but also felt strange. Can I really celebrate retirement? Iím only 43. Iíve only been working 20 years. But then if I just say I quit my job, that feels like a let down. I mean I did earn this!!
Well off to the office to turn in my laptop and badge. Hope I donít cry!

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3678 on: August 14, 2020, 10:29:07 AM »
Great job BC!..:)

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3679 on: August 14, 2020, 11:21:02 AM »
OMG YOU GUYS IT FELT SO GOOD!!! I handed IT my ball and chain laptop, grabbed my box of personal stuff and walked out with a smile!

LWYRUP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3680 on: August 14, 2020, 11:41:37 AM »
OMG YOU GUYS IT FELT SO GOOD!!! I handed IT my ball and chain laptop, grabbed my box of personal stuff and walked out with a smile!

:):):)

bluebelle

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3681 on: August 14, 2020, 12:19:38 PM »
OMG YOU GUYS IT FELT SO GOOD!!! I handed IT my ball and chain laptop, grabbed my box of personal stuff and walked out with a smile!
Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3682 on: August 14, 2020, 01:27:42 PM »
Yay, BeanCounter!  You'll get used to the free time in a big fat hurry.   It's kind of like when the kids first go off to school (what will you do with all that free time?). Somehow, bit by bit, you'll adjust. 

Herbert Derp

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3683 on: August 14, 2020, 02:38:07 PM »
More progress has been made! Up $1.5MM for the year. I turn 30 in a few weeks, so much for being young.

Spoiler: show
11/23/2012: $45,000.00
08/03/2013: $100,000.00
01/01/2016: $408,896.04
01/01/2017: $617,283.09
06/06/2017: $758,104.40
10/15/2017: $856,488.71
11/18/2017: $929,536.54
11/27/2017: $944,395.35
12/17/2017: $956,928.07
01/01/2018: $968,307.87
01/05/2018: $987,442.11
01/08/2018: $996,215.32
01/09/2018: $998,819.79
01/10/2018: $999,079.24
01/11/2018: $1,003,101.34
02/01/2018: $1,061,732.89
02/28/2018: $1,062,750.48
05/18/2018: $1,149,432.76
06/06/2018: $1,203,026.63
07/11/2018: $1,232,435.26
08/02/2018: $1,269,509.32
09/01/2018: $1,326,015.73
03/05/2019: $1,327,833.14
06/10/2019: $1,462,549.50
07/07/2019: $1,519,162.03
12/14/2019: $1,628,320.78
01/01/2020: $1,705,284.27
02/02/2020: $1,838,397.87
02/13/2020: $1,961,653.87
02/19/2020: $2,000,505.43
04/14/2020: $2,002,087.12
05/09/2020: $2,148,999.11
06/20/2020: $2,471,306.02
07/01/2020: $2,632,979.23
07/02/2020: $2,721,395.70
07/10/2020: $3,098,138.96
08/14/2020: $3,243,042.90

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3684 on: August 14, 2020, 03:52:04 PM »
More progress has been made! Up $1.5MM for the year. I turn 30 in a few weeks, so much for being young.

Spoiler: show
11/23/2012: $45,000.00
08/03/2013: $100,000.00
01/01/2016: $408,896.04
01/01/2017: $617,283.09
06/06/2017: $758,104.40
10/15/2017: $856,488.71
11/18/2017: $929,536.54
11/27/2017: $944,395.35
12/17/2017: $956,928.07
01/01/2018: $968,307.87
01/05/2018: $987,442.11
01/08/2018: $996,215.32
01/09/2018: $998,819.79
01/10/2018: $999,079.24
01/11/2018: $1,003,101.34
02/01/2018: $1,061,732.89
02/28/2018: $1,062,750.48
05/18/2018: $1,149,432.76
06/06/2018: $1,203,026.63
07/11/2018: $1,232,435.26
08/02/2018: $1,269,509.32
09/01/2018: $1,326,015.73
03/05/2019: $1,327,833.14
06/10/2019: $1,462,549.50
07/07/2019: $1,519,162.03
12/14/2019: $1,628,320.78
01/01/2020: $1,705,284.27
02/02/2020: $1,838,397.87
02/13/2020: $1,961,653.87
02/19/2020: $2,000,505.43
04/14/2020: $2,002,087.12
05/09/2020: $2,148,999.11
06/20/2020: $2,471,306.02
07/01/2020: $2,632,979.23
07/02/2020: $2,721,395.70
07/10/2020: $3,098,138.96
08/14/2020: $3,243,042.90


Some of are old enough to remember when the expression, "Don't Trust Anybody Over Thirty."  I'm sure that was quite a bit more than 30 years ago.  If you have your health, by far most of it is still in front of you.  You are doing something right.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3685 on: August 14, 2020, 07:53:23 PM »
HD-you made me check the hubs account- up 10x this year. I still think it is insane....when does Elonís shares vest? Sometimes I think there is outside engineering on prices. Well A bit before he vests, dump as there will be a dip. Buy again in the valley.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3686 on: August 14, 2020, 08:44:49 PM »
More progress has been made! Up $1.5MM for the year. I turn 30 in a few weeks, so much for being young.

Spoiler: show
11/23/2012: $45,000.00
08/03/2013: $100,000.00
01/01/2016: $408,896.04
01/01/2017: $617,283.09
06/06/2017: $758,104.40
10/15/2017: $856,488.71
11/18/2017: $929,536.54
11/27/2017: $944,395.35
12/17/2017: $956,928.07
01/01/2018: $968,307.87
01/05/2018: $987,442.11
01/08/2018: $996,215.32
01/09/2018: $998,819.79
01/10/2018: $999,079.24
01/11/2018: $1,003,101.34
02/01/2018: $1,061,732.89
02/28/2018: $1,062,750.48
05/18/2018: $1,149,432.76
06/06/2018: $1,203,026.63
07/11/2018: $1,232,435.26
08/02/2018: $1,269,509.32
09/01/2018: $1,326,015.73
03/05/2019: $1,327,833.14
06/10/2019: $1,462,549.50
07/07/2019: $1,519,162.03
12/14/2019: $1,628,320.78
01/01/2020: $1,705,284.27
02/02/2020: $1,838,397.87
02/13/2020: $1,961,653.87
02/19/2020: $2,000,505.43
04/14/2020: $2,002,087.12
05/09/2020: $2,148,999.11
06/20/2020: $2,471,306.02
07/01/2020: $2,632,979.23
07/02/2020: $2,721,395.70
07/10/2020: $3,098,138.96
08/14/2020: $3,243,042.90


Thanks for the updates, but it's a bit dry without any enthusiasm about what your plans are.  Numbers - even with a dollar sign in front of them - are pretty boring.  Surely you have some dreams and aspirations?

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3687 on: August 14, 2020, 08:52:59 PM »
Thanks for the updates, but it's a bit dry without any enthusiasm about what your plans are.  Numbers - even with a dollar sign in front of them - are pretty boring.  Surely you have some dreams and aspirations?

I thought I already shared this a while back?
This is what I'm currently thinking about.

Short term:
  • Get a car
  • Get a girlfriend

Medium term:
  • Move out of the city
  • Gain experience working on farms

Long term:
  • Relocate to another country?
  • Marriage / children?
  • Buy a bunch of land and see if I can live off-grid?

I'm currently working on the "get a car" and "get a girlfriend" parts! Long term, my current plans involve buying land and seeing if I can create a small business running a small organic vegetable farm and Airbnb lodge on the property.

I think it would be awesome to grow vegetables using these things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s5GU9SWquQ

Airbnb lodge could be something along these lines:
https://www.glamping.com/destination/south-america/patagonia/coyhaique/fundo-panguilemu/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iWqylbuscE




« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 09:03:26 PM by Herbert Derp »

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3688 on: August 14, 2020, 09:40:23 PM »
@Herbert Derp Thanks for that.  I don't follow you elsewhere on the forum, but you haven't shared any of that on this thread.  I enjoy hearing other folks talk about how FI is improving their lives and you were just showing up with solidly FI numbers but no context.  For some sad people, even your numbers aren't FI, so who knows you from Adam.  Hopefully you join our crowd a bit more and continue to share the evolution of these aspirations and endeavors...

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3689 on: August 14, 2020, 09:44:24 PM »
I do have a journal thread, which this thread is not. I go into more detail about my life over there! This thread is just the race to $4MM :P

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3690 on: August 14, 2020, 10:47:07 PM »
I do have a journal thread, which this thread is not. I go into more detail about my life over there! This thread is just the race to $4MM :P

This thread kinda became the hangout for Mustachians that hit 2M and found themselves going higher.  The 'and beyond' and 'race' part evolved a bit to just mean, this is a good place for folks to discuss how they are enjoying their FI and what the future holds.  There is a 4M and beyond thread that might be more appealing to you, if 4M+ is your goal.  I'll check out your journal, but please throw in more to this thread than what is typical in a 'race to' thread because it kinda detracts from those of us just hanging out here enjoying our FI.  Not sure if you've really read the full thread, but you'll understand us better if your TSLA stock slows down and/or you realize you have enough to already accomplish stuff 90+% of the world can only dream of (like ER, dream home location, dream pursuits that don't pay as well, helping others, self actualization, etc).  Glad to have you here, sorry to go all 'hall monitor' on you. 

GreenEggs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3691 on: August 15, 2020, 07:32:44 AM »
To be fair, most of us seem to be see these account levels as our slow down point where we've either RE or looking at the finish line.  HD is younger and still racing.  He's still thinking about buying a vehicle, getting property, finding a mate, and settling down.  His situation is quite unique here.  We're all impressed & probably envious of his youth. We are curious what it would have been like to be in his position, and are eager to hear what he actually chooses.  At his present rate of accumulation he'll be in the "well beyond" of end of our group soon.  There $4 and beyond thread barely exists, so from a social perspective this is the last stop on the MMM forum.   


HD's presented a number of his plans or dreams.  He's in a fortunate position in that he's unattached & free to make his choices without concern over anyone else's needs or schedules.  But, that will come & he'll have to adjust to the compromises and responsibilities they require. 


I'm wondering when he's planning to buy a vehicle?  That seems to be the first major thing on his list.  I've found that it's hard to decide what to drive when you can afford whatever you want.  Buying a car is the simplest thing on his to-do list.  Deciding where to live & buying property is a much bigger & much more binding decision.  Then, the biggest thing on his list of all, finding a mate, is unlike any of the others.  That's more important than anything else, and yet almost something that you aren't totally in control of.  And sadly, adding vast assets to the equation usually complicates relationships.


Anyway, we're all interested in hearing about what choices HD makes. 


(ps. The robotic garden looks pretty hokie to me.  Gardening's about being "hand on" and getting to know your soil, your crops, the pests & weeds, etc.  If you want to play a video game that's fine, but there's no reason to drag the hardware into your garden.) 

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3692 on: August 15, 2020, 11:04:27 AM »
Open ended question where I could use some input:

How much bay area real estate would you be comfortable holding right now?

Our house equity is a significant portion of our net worth (for rounding ease of use, let's say 1/2 of a $4M portfolio). Current plan is to get the kids through high school (5 years left) & then relocate somewhere less expensive, freeing up 1/2 or so of that equity, putting the rest into another house. We have a paid off house on the Oregon coast, but living there full time isn't likely in the cards. We'd choose a similar climate to the bay area, but much cheaper COL.

We work in tech (same company) & are able to WFH for the next year or so, as most tech companies have announced. COVID will likely have a significant impact on remote working in the tech space, and likely drive down the cost of real estate. In real life, that's great, as the bay area is crazy expensive. Selfishly, I of course don't wan to be sitting on a $3M house as the market trends down.

We will likely be under $1M in a loan in a year, so it would take a major black swan event for us to be "under water" on the house. But, still getting antsy in the market. We live in an incredibly desirable area (even within the bay area), that is a close commute to most tech employers, but retains a smallish town vibe. It's a great place to live & raise kids, so no concerns about the area, minus the potential market decline.

Thoughts?

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3693 on: August 15, 2020, 12:59:23 PM »
@GreenEggs I appreciate you're wisdom you imaparted here. I'm sure there a few of us older (more cynical perhaps) folks who recognise that finding a mate is fraught with problems of attracting the "wrong sort".

This is why I advocate for making a list of qualities that you are looking for in a mate before you start looking. Most people it turns out have no idea what they are looking for beyond the obvious.

Certainly a large stash could be like ringing the dinner gong in the middle of a crowd of hungry people.

A good idea to fly under the radar as far as displaying wealth is concerned.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3694 on: August 15, 2020, 03:50:00 PM »
Open ended question where I could use some input:

How much bay area real estate would you be comfortable holding right now?

Our house equity is a significant portion of our net worth (for rounding ease of use, let's say 1/2 of a $4M portfolio). Current plan is to get the kids through high school (5 years left) & then relocate somewhere less expensive, freeing up 1/2 or so of that equity, putting the rest into another house. We have a paid off house on the Oregon coast, but living there full time isn't likely in the cards. We'd choose a similar climate to the bay area, but much cheaper COL.

We work in tech (same company) & are able to WFH for the next year or so, as most tech companies have announced. COVID will likely have a significant impact on remote working in the tech space, and likely drive down the cost of real estate. In real life, that's great, as the bay area is crazy expensive. Selfishly, I of course don't wan to be sitting on a $3M house as the market trends down.

We will likely be under $1M in a loan in a year, so it would take a major black swan event for us to be "under water" on the house. But, still getting antsy in the market. We live in an incredibly desirable area (even within the bay area), that is a close commute to most tech employers, but retains a smallish town vibe. It's a great place to live & raise kids, so no concerns about the area, minus the potential market decline.

Thoughts?

If youíre planning on being in the area for several more years, then thatís a lot of time for the market to go up, down, and all around. I donít pretend to know the intricacies of the SF market, indeed Iím on the other coast. The concern I would have is that youíve got a whole heck of a lot of your NW is locked up in real estate in a very pricey market.

I like to turn these questions around. Given what you know about the market right now and what you could likely sell your home for today, would you buy it?  If the answer is YES, then youíre where you should be. If the answer is NO, then why isnít the house on the market?

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3695 on: August 15, 2020, 04:33:59 PM »
@GreenEggs I appreciate you're wisdom you imaparted here. I'm sure there a few of us older (more cynical perhaps) folks who recognise that finding a mate is fraught with problems of attracting the "wrong sort".

This is why I advocate for making a list of qualities that you are looking for in a mate before you start looking. Most people it turns out have no idea what they are looking for beyond the obvious.

Certainly a large stash could be like ringing the dinner gong in the middle of a crowd of hungry people.

A good idea to fly under the radar as far as displaying wealth is concerned.




Even with a checklist for the "ideal mate" you've got to be somewhat flexible.  None of us are perfect, and we can't expect our mates to be either. 


I agree with keeping financial details confidential, and it's always better to use general terms like "well off, comfortable, or secure" than any specific amounts.  It would be wise for HD to consider placing his assets in a trust to protect them from uncertainties of any future relationships, and also from other general liabilities.  (Having a trust is similar to having a prenup without the uncomfortable discussion or paperwork.)  The (your) trust can own millions, while you can personally own very little. 


Having a trust in place will help alleviate the stress of worrying about going through a messy, expensive divorce before you've even met someone. 
 











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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3696 on: August 15, 2020, 04:39:55 PM »
@Buffaloski Boris - I was uncomfortable with the price tag when we bought it, and we've invested money in the house, plus the market has continued to rise steadily. So... I'd say I'd really have to close my eyes at the idea of ever spending that kind of money on a house (even more than we paid before). Realistically, while property values might drop a bit, this is where we want to be for the next five years at least, and it's hard to predict what will happen in that time.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3697 on: August 15, 2020, 05:19:24 PM »
@Buffaloski Boris - I was uncomfortable with the price tag when we bought it, and we've invested money in the house, plus the market has continued to rise steadily. So... I'd say I'd really have to close my eyes at the idea of ever spending that kind of money on a house (even more than we paid before). Realistically, while property values might drop a bit, this is where we want to be for the next five years at least, and it's hard to predict what will happen in that time.

Sounds to me like youíve made up your mind. If youíd buy today, eyes closed or shut, then you have your answer. Something you might think about is refi or cashing out given current interest rates. IIRC, real estate debt is non recourse in Cali.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3698 on: August 15, 2020, 05:37:42 PM »
@Buffaloski Boris - I was uncomfortable with the price tag when we bought it, and we've invested money in the house, plus the market has continued to rise steadily. So... I'd say I'd really have to close my eyes at the idea of ever spending that kind of money on a house (even more than we paid before). Realistically, while property values might drop a bit, this is where we want to be for the next five years at least, and it's hard to predict what will happen in that time.

Sounds to me like youíve made up your mind. If youíd buy today, eyes closed or shut, then you have your answer. Something you might think about is refi or cashing out given current interest rates. IIRC, real estate debt is non recourse in California.
Except for the mistake I fixed, I pretty much agree with BB's thoughts. Bonus is that I'm in the Bay Area, too. OMG, I can't believe how much we paid for our house and what we've spent to maintain it for the last seven years. I also can't believe how much it's gone up in value. If you're going to continue to work, I think I'd ride the Real Estate Pony until you're ready to saddle up and get out of Dodge.

I really, really like BB's suggestion to re-fi and pull some of your equity out, but be careful of IRS limits on deductibility. Just for fun, let's ping some experts. Are @Cpa Cat, @SeattleCPA, or @seattlecyclone still in the house? Anyone else who knows is welcome to chime in.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3699 on: August 16, 2020, 11:34:53 AM »
Just thought Iíd check in...

Negotiations with my employer are at a stalemate.

The pressure is mounting for me to just back down and accept my company not honouring my current employment contract, if I want the next job.

The amount in dispute is fairly large I suppose, but not life altering. Enough to pay cash for a fancy German car, but not enough for a ski chalet to go with it. nevertheless Itís causing me some sleepless nights.

Whilst I am certainly in a place of ample FU money, I donít know if burning down the castle to get whatís mine is necessarily the way to go.

My stance is strong legally (almost bulletproof Iíd say), but there is always the risk that if you are counting on lawyers you could end up in tears. Also I have negotiated a pretty good package that is unlikely to be replicable if I leave my current employer.

I just need to find some way to exert leverage without being too threatening. Really not sure how to force their hand. Or should I just adhere to the ďbetter is the enemy of the goodĒ logic (Voltaire)

Flight departs in 9 days, will I be on it? or will I do the ballsy thing and refuse to fly until I am paid.... what will then be a termination 😬