Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!

[Dicey]

I stepped into a Walmart about ten+ years ago with a gift card to spend. I found the place incredibly depressing.

I'm hitting up lots of local stores and restaurants on behalf of my beloved library's upcoming fund raiser, therefore I'm darkening far more retail doors than I do in real life. I was waiting for a manager at a grocery store I use only in a minor way. I noticed they have a dry ice freezer. This gave me an unexpected thrill, because up to that moment, the only place I knew that sold dry ice was a Wally World two towns over. Having knowledge of this is giving me a weird sort of giddiness. How often do I buy dry ice? Never. But it's still a relief knowing that if I did have need for it, I wouldn't have to go to Wally's. Oddly soothing discovery.

Its amazing how many meme's I see , articles about all there labor issues, dumpy stores etc.. but yet the store is the only one seemingly that is not being affected by Amazon.

Everyone feels the impact of Amazon, whether they admit it or not.

[soccerluvof4]

I stepped into a Walmart about ten+ years ago with a gift card to spend. I found the place incredibly depressing.

I'm hitting up lots of local stores and restaurants on behalf of my beloved library's upcoming fund raiser, therefore I'm darkening far more retail doors than I do in real life. I was waiting for a manager at a grocery store I use only in a minor way. I noticed they have a dry ice freezer. This gave me an unexpected thrill, because up to that moment, the only place I knew that sold dry ice was a Wally World two towns over. Having knowledge of this is giving me a weird sort of giddiness. How often do I buy dry ice? Never. But it's still a relief knowing that if I did have need for it, I wouldn't have to go to Wally's. Oddly soothing discovery.

Its amazing how many meme's I see , articles about all there labor issues, dumpy stores etc.. but yet the store is the only one seemingly that is not being affected by Amazon.

Everyone feels the impact of Amazon, whether they admit it or not.

Yea good point! I meant more adapting ,surviving it the best. They were the first of the big boys that I remember to really get into the e commerce online sales seriously when they bought Jet back in 2016 for the infrastructure.

[soccerluvof4]

I stepped into a Walmart about ten+ years ago with a gift card to spend. I found the place incredibly depressing.

I'm hitting up lots of local stores and restaurants on behalf of my beloved library's upcoming fund raiser, therefore I'm darkening far more retail doors than I do in real life. I was waiting for a manager at a grocery store I use only in a minor way. I noticed they have a dry ice freezer. This gave me an unexpected thrill, because up to that moment, the only place I knew that sold dry ice was a Wally World two towns over. Having knowledge of this is giving me a weird sort of giddiness. How often do I buy dry ice? Never. But it's still a relief knowing that if I did have need for it, I wouldn't have to go to Wally's. Oddly soothing discovery.

Its amazing how many meme's I see , articles about all there labor issues, dumpy stores etc.. but yet the store is the only one seemingly that is not being affected by Amazon.

Everyone feels the impact of Amazon, whether they admit it or not.

Yea good point! I meant more adapting ,surviving it the best. They were the first of the big boys that I remember to really get into the e commerce online sales seriously when they bought Jet back in 2016 for the infrastructure.

Laughed when I saw this...so true-

[Much Fishing to Do]

Yes but when can I do all my international travel in Business class and eat caviar every day?

$3M is just NOT enough..;)

I don't understand why the same thing wouldn't be said about $2M? Or $1M? or $500K?

Sorry, trying to increase my net worth (as more seems better than less) and I'm not exactly sure at what dollar amount that goes from a good thing to a bad thing.  I'm not gonna be so obnoxious as to get into DAFs I've created, etc.  My only defense is that my business took off so fast I couldnt quit earlier (I went form $1M to $3m in the last 3 years).  I wanted to make sure the employees had a job elsewhere or I swear I would have stopped earning income sooner.  I promise.  I'm sorry.  If it helps I hate cavier and I've never flown anything other than coach and I am admittedly worried about the price of living today for most and left 529s worth a lot to each  of my 3 kids.  I'm sorry.  I swear I'll make a tax/investing/healthcare mistake in the next few years and be poor again agian if possible, lord knows its easy.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Yes but when can I do all my international travel in Business class and eat caviar every day?

$3M is just NOT enough..;)

I don't understand why the same thing wouldn't be said about $2M? Or $1M? or $500K?

Sorry, trying to increase my net worth (as more seems better than less) and I'm not exactly sure at what dollar amount that goes from a good thing to a bad thing.  I'm not gonna be so obnoxious as to get into DAFs I've created, etc.  My only defense is that my business took off so fast I couldnt quit earlier (I went form $1M to $3m in the last 3 years).  I wanted to make sure the employees had a job elsewhere or I swear I would have stopped earning income sooner.  I promise.  I'm sorry.  If it helps I hate cavier and I've never flown anything other than coach and I am admittedly worried about the price of living today for most and left 529s worth a lot to each  of my 3 kids.  I'm sorry.  I swear I'll make a tax/investing/healthcare mistake in the next few years and be poor again agian if possible, lord knows its easy.

Yeah, this site is quite peculiar from real life in the fact that 'over - saving' is looked upon as 'years of life wasted'.  Although I appreciate the well-intended nature people have when they mutter 'ER already', it does come across as very different from the real world.  I don't think anyone will regret sailing in to old age being able to live comfortably and not have to worry about running out of money.  I just keep my NW vague when I talk about it and focus on the FI aspect. 

[Much Fishing to Do]

Yes but when can I do all my international travel in Business class and eat caviar every day?

$3M is just NOT enough..;)

I don't understand why the same thing wouldn't be said about $2M? Or $1M? or $500K?

Sorry, trying to increase my net worth (as more seems better than less) and I'm not exactly sure at what dollar amount that goes from a good thing to a bad thing.  I'm not gonna be so obnoxious as to get into DAFs I've created, etc.  My only defense is that my business took off so fast I couldnt quit earlier (I went form $1M to $3m in the last 3 years).  I wanted to make sure the employees had a job elsewhere or I swear I would have stopped earning income sooner.  I promise.  I'm sorry.  If it helps I hate cavier and I've never flown anything other than coach and I am admittedly worried about the price of living today for most and left 529s worth a lot to each  of my 3 kids.  I'm sorry.  I swear I'll make a tax/investing/healthcare mistake in the next few years and be poor again agian if possible, lord knows its easy.

Yeah, this site is quite peculiar from real life in the fact that 'over - saving' is looked upon as 'years of life wasted'.  Although I appreciate the well-intended nature people have when they mutter 'ER already', it does come across as very different from the real world.  I don't think anyone will regret sailing in to old age being able to live comfortably and not have to worry about running out of money.  I just keep my NW vague when I talk about it and focus on the FI aspect.

Gotcha.  It wouldn't have normally caught me off-guard guess I just thought I'd be safe on this thread given the name of it...

[PhrugalPhan]

Yeah, this site is quite peculiar from real life in the fact that 'over - saving' is looked upon as 'years of life wasted'.  Although I appreciate the well-intended nature people have when they mutter 'ER already', it does come across as very different from the real world.  I don't think anyone will regret sailing in to old age being able to live comfortably and not have to worry about running out of money.  I just keep my NW vague when I talk about it and focus on the FI aspect.

I don't post often and even I have already had people ask (in the main forum) why I am not retired (In my case its $2Mil (adding in the GFs funds + our pensions down the road)).  I'm mostly looking at the FI too, and really when you get to our finance levels I can understand why someone would say that.  For me I am just waiting until my pension will start day one of RE and I am out the door.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Gotcha.  It wouldn't have normally caught me off-guard guess I just thought I'd be safe on this thread given the name of it...

Yup, nowhere is safe apparently.  Just a well-intentioned quirk that I got used to after the first hundred or so times ;)  And hey, nothing wrong with challenging someone in the comfort zone to make sure they are making the right decisions.

[JoJoP]

Gotcha.  It wouldn't have normally caught me off-guard guess I just thought I'd be safe on this thread given the name of it...

Yup, nowhere is safe apparently.  Just a well-intentioned quirk that I got used to after the first hundred or so times ;)  And hey, nothing wrong with challenging someone in the comfort zone to make sure they are making the right decisions.

These two comments have me very confused.  Did I miss something?  ExFlyBoy commented, somewhat tongue in cheek, that 3MM might not keep him in caviar and business class.   I thought it was a cute comment and the followup posts are confusing.   Where did anyone say anything personally negative?   Color me clueless...

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Gotcha.  It wouldn't have normally caught me off-guard guess I just thought I'd be safe on this thread given the name of it...

Yup, nowhere is safe apparently.  Just a well-intentioned quirk that I got used to after the first hundred or so times ;)  And hey, nothing wrong with challenging someone in the comfort zone to make sure they are making the right decisions.

These two comments have me very confused.  Did I miss something?  ExFlyBoy commented, somewhat tongue in cheek, that 3MM might not keep him in caviar and business class.   I thought it was a cute comment and the followup posts are confusing.   Where did anyone say anything personally negative?   Color me clueless...

Not clueless, just another thing I have run across with posting online as opposed to this being a conversation in person.  EFB sarcastically commented, as you noted, tongue-in-cheek.  MFtD maybe did not fully pick up on the sarcasm, this being online and missing things like body language and tone, but also it is a common refrain on MMM Forums that over-saving is a problem to be avoided.  I don't think anyone was being negative though, just continuing the conversation about this 'over-saving calamity'.

[MiserlyMiser]

Just venting—my investments hit a high today, but I didn’t withhold enough from my paycheck over the year, plus my taxes are higher because of the stupid new tax law, so my NW will be back down as soon as my tax check gets cashed.
I’m strongly in favor of higher taxes, but I have Strong Feelings about our current politicians not even trying to pretend that they’re not using their offices for personal gain, and it’s sticking in my craw.

[ysette9]

Just venting—my investments hit a high today, but I didn’t withhold enough from my paycheck over the year, plus my taxes are higher because of the stupid new tax law, so my NW will be back down as soon as my tax check gets cashed.
I’m strongly in favor of higher taxes, but I have Strong Feelings about our current politicians not even trying to pretend that they’re not using their offices for personal gain, and it’s sticking in my craw.

I’d be irked in your position also. I’m not a fan of the new tax law though it will be a boon for us in retirement.

[MiserlyMiser]

Just venting—my investments hit a high today, but I didn’t withhold enough from my paycheck over the year, plus my taxes are higher because of the stupid new tax law, so my NW will be back down as soon as my tax check gets cashed.
I’m strongly in favor of higher taxes, but I have Strong Feelings about our current politicians not even trying to pretend that they’re not using their offices for personal gain, and it’s sticking in my craw.

I’d be irked in your position also. I’m not a fan of the new tax law though it will be a boon for us in retirement.

Yeah. On the glass half full side, this extra tax liability is an annoyance but doesn’t materially affect my finances, and I’m lucky to be in that position. I would just feel better about paying it if I felt my taxes were being instead of grifter/wasted.

[DavidAnnArbor]

On the other hand much of the tax cut will go toward corporate stock buy backs which is driving up the stock market and hence your net worth.

[Exflyboy]

Those of us with significant stock exposure should be feeling more wealthy than we ever have today...:)

[pecunia]

Hmmmmmm - Something about those last posts smells 1929.  Underneath the stack of cards, I just feel there is a real value there crying to get out.  Unfortunately, it's a small voice which indicates its actual size.

But, I guess it's not happening to everyone like 1929.  Most people just live paycheck to paycheck.  It's just if it seems to good to be true,....

I'm still working, but it sure is a good feeling that if they told me to go, I could go with a smile that they probably wouldn't understand. 

[DavidAnnArbor]

Hmmmmmm - Something about those last posts smells 1929.  Underneath the stack of cards, I just feel there is a real value there crying to get out.  Unfortunately, it's a small voice which indicates its actual size.

But, I guess it's not happening to everyone like 1929.  Most people just live paycheck to paycheck.  It's just if it seems to good to be true,....

I'm still working, but it sure is a good feeling that if they told me to go, I could go with a smile that they probably wouldn't understand.

If we have people like Stephen Moore elevated to the Federal Reserve Board trying to impose the Gold Standard then yes it will be 1929 Redux.

Stephen Moore would be clueless on how to navigate a financial crisis if it hit.

[pecunia]

- SNIP -

If we have people like Stephen Moore elevated to the Federal Reserve Board trying to impose the Gold Standard then yes it will be 1929 Redux.

Stephen Moore would be clueless on how to navigate a financial crisis if it hit.

Whoa!  I thought this was a guy who owned a bar in Ypsilanti.  I was wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Moore_(writer)

This guy looks like bad news.  He is a supply sider.  They maintain their philosophy despite reality giving them the indication that they should take an alternate approach.  I'm beginning to think the election of 2020 can't come fast enough.  It's time for a change in the country's management.

Despite the great stock market gains of recent times, some of these boys may be doing their best to kill the 4 percent rule.

[Bateaux]

This sucks. 
Last week we had a new roof installed on our Florida home.  The cost was over $25,000.  That price includes removal of the old roof, removal of all damaged plywood, cost of new materials, disposal of old materials, paychecks for the crew of workers and profits for the company.   It took them four days.  In that same time, the market provided us with an increase greater than the total cost of the job.  Working for a living is a silly way to make money.

[Exflyboy]

This sucks. 
Last week we had a new roof installed on our Florida home.  The cost was over $25,000.  That price includes removal of the old roof, removal of all damaged plywood, cost of new materials, disposal of old materials, paychecks for the crew of workers and profits for the company.   It took them four days.  In that same time, the market provided us with an increase greater than the total cost of the job.  Working for a living is a silly way to make money.

Your right totally does suck.. ;)

[pecunia]

Some of you may soon be hitting your "beyond."  Predictions are for new stock market highs.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/dow-finishes-higher-tuesday-and-a-new-high-looks-almost-inevitable-51555450227

These are strange times we live in.

[Exflyboy]

Some of you may soon be hitting your "beyond."  Predictions are for new stock market highs.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/dow-finishes-higher-tuesday-and-a-new-high-looks-almost-inevitable-51555450227

These are strange times we live in.

If I count funny money (pension valuations and home value) I think I am "beyond". Feels like the Voyager space craft having just left the solar system.. Where will it end?

I'm wondering if I'll live long enough to see 8 figures...:)

[Bateaux]

Some of you may soon be hitting your "beyond."  Predictions are for new stock market highs.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/dow-finishes-higher-tuesday-and-a-new-high-looks-almost-inevitable-51555450227

These are strange times we live in.

If I count funny money (pension valuations and home value) I think I am "beyond". Feels like the Voyager space craft having just left the solar system.. Where will it end?

I'm wondering if I'll live long enough to see 8 figures...:)

If I were to continue to work and invest.   It looks like 8 figures would come at age 67.
That's 17 years, with continued 8% growth.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Some of you may soon be hitting your "beyond."  Predictions are for new stock market highs.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/dow-finishes-higher-tuesday-and-a-new-high-looks-almost-inevitable-51555450227

These are strange times we live in.

If I count funny money (pension valuations and home value) I think I am "beyond". Feels like the Voyager space craft having just left the solar system.. Where will it end?

I'm wondering if I'll live long enough to see 8 figures...:)

If I were to continue to work and invest.   It looks like 8 figures would come at age 67.
That's 17 years, with continued 8% growth.

That's been the most disorienting part about compounding at these large numbers.  It was one thing when 1 million slowly but surely became 2 million, but then 3 million comes in half the time!  And when you hit 4 million, then 5 million comes really quickly!  And you start to see net worth jumps of tens of thousands of dollars every day as being 'normal'.

But alas, once you have enough, more than enough is all the same.  I try not to let any of it change me, because I could easily justify doing some really dumb things with all this easy 'compounding money'.  I have to stop and remind myself how great a simple, efficient life is.  As long as I have my health, my family, and access to the internet, the rest is gravy.

[Car Jack]

It's tough to emotionally accept that there's some attainable number where you can stop working and be ok.  I'm there and my wife is 1000 times there.  My goal has been to hit 50 times spending and I'm $50k away from hitting that number.  I like seeing my pay hit and the market go up and see my stache growing out and being able to form waxed curls at each end like handle bars.  But life goes on and between paying for black swan events last year and DS#1 changing course and going to grad school it doesn't "feel" like I can stop working.  So I do plan to cruise right by my target number and continue working my low stress, highly paid job until he's out of grad school.  DS#2 will still be in college but is going the low cost route with years 1 and 2 in community college and plans for 3 and 4 at state college.  So I'm not expecting to pay the cost of a new Lamborghini Huracan (what DS#1 cost) for DS#2. 

[PhrugalPhan]

That's been the most disorienting part about compounding at these large numbers.  It was one thing when 1 million slowly but surely became 2 million, but then 3 million comes in half the time!  And when you hit 4 million, then 5 million comes really quickly!  And you start to see net worth jumps of tens of thousands of dollars every day as being 'normal'.

I remember when moves of $1,000 or more in my accounts were amazing.  Its gotten to the point now if my accounts don't move $1,000 in a day I am surprised.  So yes, the daily movements when your stache hits these numbers is starting to look like pretend values.  And I'm sure like many here my stache grew faster than my salary in 2016 & 2017 which was amazing.

I joke/not joke at work to my buddy I am working any more for the subsidized health insurance.  In reality I am just waiting for the pension to kick in, but there are days I look at the 'stache movements and ask "Why am I coming in to work again?".

[JoJoP]

I'm wondering if I'll live long enough to see 8 figures...:)

If I were to continue to work and invest.   It looks like 8 figures would come at age 67.
That's 17 years, with continued 8% growth.

I'm solidly in the "and beyond" territory, but it never dawned on me to hope for or realistically expect 8 figures.   If I stumble upon that level of NW, then, cool.   Since most of our NW and income is from rental properties, I'll have to take a look at what could be a reasonable expectation over the next 2 decades.  Will it exponentially grow like the market does?  I'm not sure.   I'll have to re-read the "returns of just about everything' study. 
Real Estate equity seems more prone to growth/ plateau patterns, and you only cash in when you sell. There's only so much your rents can go up, but mine have increased about 50% in the past 6 years or so.   My goal is to spend our monthly income worry free, with no further need to save.   If there's excess, sure, into the market it goes.  Or, I'll donate more, help the grandkids more, or order the lobster. 

[itchyfeet]

I feel reasonably confident that if I worked until 65 I’d hit 10M by retirement but that’s not the plan.

[Bateaux]

We should reach 2.5M by 2021, it is possible we'll see 8 figures and still retire at 52.  Hope to spend about 60K annually.   Here's what simplified FIRECalc says.


FIRECalc looked at the 119 possible 30 year periods in the available data, starting with a portfolio of $2,500,000 and spending your specified amounts each year thereafter.

Here is how your portfolio would have fared in each of the 119 cycles. The lowest and highest portfolio balance at the end of your retirement was $2,500,000 to $17,820,987, with an average at the end of $7,936,852. (Note: this is looking at all the possible periods; values are in terms of the dollars as of the beginning of the retirement period for each cycle.)

For our purposes, failure means the portfolio was depleted before the end of the 30 years. FIRECalc found that 0 cycles failed, for a success rate of 100.0%.

[Exflyboy]

It's tough to emotionally accept that there's some attainable number where you can stop working and be ok. 

Its even tougher to actually do it.. I.e quit work.

Even after 2 full years of no income whatsoever I still have the nagging doubt thats its all going to come crashing down one day soon.

[DavidAnnArbor]

I do have that anxiety as well.

I'm still working part time, but I've cut back, and part of me is relieved, and part of me still has some worry. But when I think about the rate of death as one guys from 50's, to 60's, and beyond, I think the real issue is to make sure I maintain healthy life habits. Taking the time for health and wellness is way more important than going from 2 million to 10 million. 

[Exflyboy]

I do have that anxiety as well.

I'm still working part time, but I've cut back, and part of me is relieved, and part of me still has some worry. But when I think about the rate of death as one guys from 50's, to 60's, and beyond, I think the real issue is to make sure I maintain healthy life habits. Taking the time for health and wellness is way more important than going from 2 million to 10 million.

Yup you're absolutely right, the risk of running out of time is far higher than the risk of running out of money.

[pecunia]

-SNIP-

Yup you're absolutely right, the risk of running out of time is far higher than the risk of running out of money.

Those are wise words.

[Dicey]

-SNIP-

Yup you're absolutely right, the risk of running out of time is far higher than the risk of running out of money.

Those are wise words.

They're also hard earned, aren't they, EFB? *snirt*

[Exflyboy]

-SNIP-

Yup you're absolutely right, the risk of running out of time is far higher than the risk of running out of money.

Those are wise words.

They're also hard earned, aren't they, EFB? *snirt*

Ouch!..;)

[soccerluvof4]

It's tough to emotionally accept that there's some attainable number where you can stop working and be ok. 

Its even tougher to actually do it.. I.e quit work.

Even after 2 full years of no income whatsoever I still have the nagging doubt thats its all going to come crashing down one day soon.

I feel that way after 4 years so not sure when that feeling goes away!

[EscapeVelocity2020]

It's tough to emotionally accept that there's some attainable number where you can stop working and be ok. 

Its even tougher to actually do it.. I.e quit work.

Even after 2 full years of no income whatsoever I still have the nagging doubt thats its all going to come crashing down one day soon.

I feel that way after 4 years so not sure when that feeling goes away!

SL4 - One thing that should help is that, if you begin to struggle at some point, then you'll know others are REALLY struggling.  This is what I think of around health care.  Think of it as a marathon full of people the same age where you are walking the last mile to the finish line and others, that may even be faster than you at this point (still working and training), are still at the one mile mark.

And if things get unfair enough for those people trying to finish their race and finding the obstacles to be 'unjust', then the whole race will change and there is nothing you can do about that.  But for the time being, you kicked enough butt in the first 25 miles to enjoy this last mile (or so).

[Bateaux]

I like the race analogy.   It hits home.  I've had a lifetime of almost, but not quite finished things.  Very important life things that nag at me.  These were 90 to 95 percent finished things that I just never fully accomplished or completed.  I'm at that same point in my career.  Quitting now could be perceived as one more unfinished thing.  Working and saving is about all I've ever got right.  I've gotta finish this.

[Exflyboy]

I like the race analogy.   It hits home.  I've had a lifetime of almost, but not quite finished things.  Very important life things that nag at me.  These were 90 to 95 percent finished things that I just never fully accomplished or completed.  I'm at that same point in my career.  Quitting now could be perceived as one more unfinished thing.  Working and saving is about all I've ever got right.  I've gotta finish this.

I think we are somewhat hardwired to finish saving as well. Trouble is the finish line is somewhat ill defined.

In reality I found I started saving for multiple black swan events.. I.e what if we both have cancer that we have to fund out of pocket then both immediately move into a nursing home?

Its not logical but you can easily justify working till you die.

[DavidAnnArbor]

I've had similar thoughts and wondered if I were disabled how much money would I need for medical expenses above and beyond living expenses to come up with a safe withdrawal rate.

but I think most of us on here would be fine if such an unexpected event occurred.

[itchyfeet]

Boy, a lot of fear here today..... and from the rich kids with more than $2m in the bank no less. Lord help the other 95%.....

.... but false bravado aside, I too have to admit some trepidation at the next steps I take.

I really don’t know for certain whether I will pull the pin later this year. I’d really like to, but I feel like I am still waiting on a definitive sign to confirm it’s the right course of action.

Using an annuity calculator, I showed my wife how much we could spend for the next 50 years assuming returns of inflation+3%. She said “wow that’s loads, and what chance is there we will even live 50 more years?”..... of course annuity calculators ignore sequence Of return risk, but we have some protection against SORR in that at least 40% of our budget is discretionary and 15% of our income is an indexed govt secured pension, and we are well diversified between stocks and property.

We really should be fine..... but the nagging fear is there.... and so i lose a lot of sleep about what I’ll do in 4 months time. It’s seems surreal that I could be doing whatever the hell I want and wrapping up my career 20 years early.....

[Taran Wanderer]

We have a family friend who has told me, “Retire early and often!”  I can’t wrap my mind around the optimism that says you can just hang it up and then bounce back in and work some more if you need to.  The fear and trepidation is real!

[Exflyboy]

Boy, a lot of fear here today..... and from the rich kids with more than $2m in the bank no less. Lord help the other 95%.....

.... but false bravado aside, I too have to admit some trepidation at the next steps I take.

I really don’t know for certain whether I will pull the pin later this year. I’d really like to, but I feel like I am still waiting on a definitive sign to confirm it’s the right course of action.

Using an annuity calculator, I showed my wife how much we could spend for the next 50 years assuming returns of inflation+3%. She said “wow that’s loads, and what chance is there we will even live 50 more years?”..... of course annuity calculators ignore sequence Of return risk, but we have some protection against SORR in that at least 40% of our budget is discretionary and 15% of our income is an indexed govt secured pension, and we are well diversified between stocks and property.

We really should be fine..... but the nagging fear is there.... and so i lose a lot of sleep about what I’ll do in 4 months time. It’s seems surreal that I could be doing whatever the hell I want and wrapping up my career 20 years early.....

Exactly my point.. What if there is no definitive sign? I mean sure if you get sick or laid off thats definitive kind of.. But even then there are lots of jobs to be had.

Honestly for most of us I think its a case of hitting the number then pulling the pin.. What else is there?

[JoJoP]

We couldn't/wouldn't pull the pin until about a year and a half ago, and even then, since we're self employed and running the property management, it's debatable whether or not it was actually pulled.   But the bulk of DH's workload was lifted when we sold a business in 2017.  We made good money but still had big debt on the rentals-- 6 or 7 mortgages just a couple of years ago.  I still felt like our future was not secure, rather that we were juggling just as many balls on a smaller income/cash flow.  There was profit, but the margins were thin.   Now the multiple mortgages are paid off, and it feels like things have changed and are secure.   I'm not NW/debt reduction obsessed like I once was, when I was chipping, chipping chipping away at those mortgages. 

 FWIW, the unfinished projects are still unfinished, because we're busy doing really fun things (travel, hiking, relaxing) and not doing a heck of a lot of tidying up the loose ends of projects.  They waited this long, they can wait a while longer.

[pecunia]

- SNIP -

Honestly for most of us I think its a case of hitting the number then pulling the pin.. What else is there?

It's the 900 lb gorilla, health care.  The ACA thing may be in there solid enough that it can be relied upon, but I am still looking to see how things shake up in the next few months approaching 2020.  So, I keep working and building up the stash and using up the days of my life to do so.

However, I think about how it would be to be retired.  I would eat more healthy as I would have more time to gather and prepare the food.  I would exercise more as I like to hike and bike.  I would probably sleep better. 

So, maybe building up the stash largely for health care trepidation, may be unwarranted.

[Dicey]

- SNIP -
So, maybe building up the stash largely for health care trepidation, may be unwarranted.

A quick perusal of the cost of healthcare vs. inflation over the last twenty years might give you pause, pecunia. Healthcare trepidation is a hugely valid concern, especially with aging, no matter how good your self care is.

[Bateaux]

I'd say most of my fears revolve around the cost of care.   I don't see a healthy future for myself or my family.   May have to push a little further and lockmin the company benefits.

[soccerluvof4]

It's tough to emotionally accept that there's some attainable number where you can stop working and be ok. 

Its even tougher to actually do it.. I.e quit work.

Even after 2 full years of no income whatsoever I still have the nagging doubt thats its all going to come crashing down one day soon.

I feel that way after 4 years so not sure when that feeling goes away!

SL4 - One thing that should help is that, if you begin to struggle at some point, then you'll know others are REALLY struggling.  This is what I think of around health care.  Think of it as a marathon full of people the same age where you are walking the last mile to the finish line and others, that may even be faster than you at this point (still working and training), are still at the one mile mark.

And if things get unfair enough for those people trying to finish their race and finding the obstacles to be 'unjust', then the whole race will change and there is nothing you can do about that.  But for the time being, you kicked enough butt in the first 25 miles to enjoy this last mile (or so).

Great Analogy!

Boy, a lot of fear here today..... and from the rich kids with more than $2m in the bank no less. Lord help the other 95%.....

.... but false bravado aside, I too have to admit some trepidation at the next steps I take.

I really don’t know for certain whether I will pull the pin later this year. I’d really like to, but I feel like I am still waiting on a definitive sign to confirm it’s the right course of action.

Using an annuity calculator, I showed my wife how much we could spend for the next 50 years assuming returns of inflation+3%. She said “wow that’s loads, and what chance is there we will even live 50 more years?”..... of course annuity calculators ignore sequence Of return risk, but we have some protection against SORR in that at least 40% of our budget is discretionary and 15% of our income is an indexed govt secured pension, and we are well diversified between stocks and property.

We really should be fine..... but the nagging fear is there.... and so i lose a lot of sleep about what I’ll do in 4 months time. It’s seems surreal that I could be doing whatever the hell I want and wrapping up my career 20 years early.....

Exactly my point.. What if there is no definitive sign? I mean sure if you get sick or laid off thats definitive kind of.. But even then there are lots of jobs to be had.

Honestly for most of us I think its a case of hitting the number then pulling the pin.. What else is there?

That's why I pulled the pin because there will always be something otherwise to talk you out of it.


Healthcare to us 4 years ago when I fired was the biggest consideration in our decision and its still something that we constantly evaluate and probably always will have to. Having said that I agree until there is a resolution if the shit really hits the fan for most people here if need be there is plenty of work just like its a back up plan if portfolios for some just went bust. Think about it rationally but dont let it stop you from moving forward.

[Bateaux]

I'm very ready to go.   I'm having to cancel a luxury 4 bedroom condo in Mazatlan Memorial Day week.   It's my wife's work conflict and a change in dates of our sons graduation that's blocking us.  Waiting out the election next year won't kill me.  As soon as we know the future of the ACA is safe, I'm done.

[DavidAnnArbor]

Healthcare is one of my primary motivators for voting Democrat