Author Topic: Mortgage Payoff Club!!  (Read 487494 times)

Money Badger

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1550 on: April 03, 2018, 07:39:15 PM »
Just so no one ever thinks it's all rainbows and unicorns...    Just took 2 major hits with a tax bill and some expenses to fix up our house.   It's a minor set back of a month, maybe two.   We could have easily covered the latter expenses if there wasn't a mortgage payment...  Grrrr.   Just goes to show how expectations towards the end can get ahead of cash flow though.   Staying the course despite the headwinds...

Maverick1

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1551 on: April 04, 2018, 04:51:39 PM »
The credit union I deal with allows annual prepayments up to 20% of the original mortgage balance.  As of today I've prepaid 20% for 3 straight years.  I'm kind of sad I won't be able to do that again because the mortgage balance is now less than 20% of the original balance.

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1552 on: April 11, 2018, 01:15:02 AM »
Just so no one ever thinks it's all rainbows and unicorns...    Just took 2 major hits with a tax bill and some expenses to fix up our house.   It's a minor set back of a month, maybe two.   We could have easily covered the latter expenses if there wasn't a mortgage payment...  Grrrr.   Just goes to show how expectations towards the end can get ahead of cash flow though.   Staying the course despite the headwinds...
Do you mean you don't have enough savings or a healthy enough emergency fund to cover homeownership's inevitabilities? Taxes and repair bills never go away, mortgage or no mortgage.

Rowellen

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1553 on: April 11, 2018, 05:43:20 AM »
June 16 $200,813

Apr 17 $151,412
May 17 $144,681
June 17 $139,075
July 17 $136,332
Aug 17 $131,585

Apr 18 $110,747
We've slowed down the mortgage payoff in order to contribute more to super (retirement accounts).

boarder42

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1554 on: April 12, 2018, 09:32:11 AM »
Just so no one ever thinks it's all rainbows and unicorns...    Just took 2 major hits with a tax bill and some expenses to fix up our house.   It's a minor set back of a month, maybe two.   We could have easily covered the latter expenses if there wasn't a mortgage payment...  Grrrr.   Just goes to show how expectations towards the end can get ahead of cash flow though.   Staying the course despite the headwinds...
Do you mean you don't have enough savings or a healthy enough emergency fund to cover homeownership's inevitabilities? Taxes and repair bills never go away, mortgage or no mortgage.

sounds like the latter expense could have easily been covered with capital invested in equities as well.  one of the many issues over looked by the pay down your mortgage crowd.  having to keep an overly large E - Fund - in this case it appears that wasnt enough.  and then having non tax advantaged capital to fund un expected costs be them home related or not.  you should throw down the full story to educate your bretheren on this thread of the short comings of pumping money into an illiquid asset and the risks that entails. 

plainjane

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1555 on: April 13, 2018, 08:47:28 AM »
Just so no one ever thinks it's all rainbows and unicorns...    Just took 2 major hits with a tax bill and some expenses to fix up our house.   It's a minor set back of a month, maybe two.   We could have easily covered the latter expenses if there wasn't a mortgage payment...  Grrrr.   Just goes to show how expectations towards the end can get ahead of cash flow though.   Staying the course despite the headwinds...
Do you mean you don't have enough savings or a healthy enough emergency fund to cover homeownership's inevitabilities? Taxes and repair bills never go away, mortgage or no mortgage.
sounds like the latter expense could have easily been covered with capital invested in equities as well.  one of the many issues over looked by the pay down your mortgage crowd.  having to keep an overly large E - Fund - in this case it appears that wasnt enough.  and then having non tax advantaged capital to fund un expected costs be them home related or not.  you should throw down the full story to educate your bretheren on this thread of the short comings of pumping money into an illiquid asset and the risks that entails.

Thank you Boarder. Your comments have been noted and this page of the thread now has a person or two saying that it is not a good idea. Now we can wait until there are enough other posters in the thread to have a page where your concerns aren't showing, and you can post this point again.

FWIW, I don't think the OP meant that they didn't have a big enough E fund. I think they meant that the things meant that they weren't able to throw more money at their mortgage this month because of those things. Perhaps it was too optimistic a reading, but it certainly was how I would have described that sort of thing when I was in the later stages.

(Note, I am a person who prepaid their mortgage because I am in Canada where things generally reset every 5 years, and I made many mistakes with that mortgage, but on the plus side now I have lots of money to throw into my retirement investments and hindsight is 20/20)

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1556 on: April 13, 2018, 09:55:35 AM »
Just so no one ever thinks it's all rainbows and unicorns...    Just took 2 major hits with a tax bill and some expenses to fix up our house.   It's a minor set back of a month, maybe two.   We could have easily covered the latter expenses if there wasn't a mortgage payment...  Grrrr.   Just goes to show how expectations towards the end can get ahead of cash flow though.   Staying the course despite the headwinds...
Do you mean you don't have enough savings or a healthy enough emergency fund to cover homeownership's inevitabilities? Taxes and repair bills never go away, mortgage or no mortgage.
sounds like the latter expense could have easily been covered with capital invested in equities as well.  one of the many issues over looked by the pay down your mortgage crowd.  having to keep an overly large E - Fund - in this case it appears that wasnt enough.  and then having non tax advantaged capital to fund un expected costs be them home related or not.  you should throw down the full story to educate your bretheren on this thread of the short comings of pumping money into an illiquid asset and the risks that entails.

Thank you Boarder. Your comments have been noted and this page of the thread now has a person or two saying that it is not a good idea. Now we can wait until there are enough other posters in the thread to have a page where your concerns aren't showing, and you can post this point again.

FWIW, I don't think the OP meant that they didn't have a big enough E fund. I think they meant that the things meant that they weren't able to throw more money at their mortgage this month because of those things. Perhaps it was too optimistic a reading, but it certainly was how I would have described that sort of thing when I was in the later stages.

(Note, I am a person who prepaid their mortgage because I am in Canada where things generally reset every 5 years, and I made many mistakes with that mortgage, but on the plus side now I have lots of money to throw into my retirement investments and hindsight is 20/20)
@plainjane, let's be honest here. Everyone in the "Don't" Club is perfectly clear that we are advocating holding onto affordable, low fixed-rate mortgages, that are most likely tax deductible. For those of you who are not lucky enough to have these advantages, we offer no advice whatsoever.  Frankly, the way other countries handle mortgages scares the bejeebers out of me. This is a US-based site, so we are endeavoring to help the majority of readers make the most optimal decisions to reach FIRE faster. And yes, the message bears repeating, every few pages or so. Thanks for noticing.

boarder42

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1557 on: April 14, 2018, 03:05:35 AM »
Just so no one ever thinks it's all rainbows and unicorns...    Just took 2 major hits with a tax bill and some expenses to fix up our house.   It's a minor set back of a month, maybe two.   We could have easily covered the latter expenses if there wasn't a mortgage payment...  Grrrr.   Just goes to show how expectations towards the end can get ahead of cash flow though.   Staying the course despite the headwinds...
Do you mean you don't have enough savings or a healthy enough emergency fund to cover homeownership's inevitabilities? Taxes and repair bills never go away, mortgage or no mortgage.
sounds like the latter expense could have easily been covered with capital invested in equities as well.  one of the many issues over looked by the pay down your mortgage crowd.  having to keep an overly large E - Fund - in this case it appears that wasnt enough.  and then having non tax advantaged capital to fund un expected costs be them home related or not.  you should throw down the full story to educate your bretheren on this thread of the short comings of pumping money into an illiquid asset and the risks that entails.

Thank you Boarder. Your comments have been noted and this page of the thread now has a person or two saying that it is not a good idea. Now we can wait until there are enough other posters in the thread to have a page where your concerns aren't showing, and you can post this point again.

FWIW, I don't think the OP meant that they didn't have a big enough E fund. I think they meant that the things meant that they weren't able to throw more money at their mortgage this month because of those things. Perhaps it was too optimistic a reading, but it certainly was how I would have described that sort of thing when I was in the later stages.

(Note, I am a person who prepaid their mortgage because I am in Canada where things generally reset every 5 years, and I made many mistakes with that mortgage, but on the plus side now I have lots of money to throw into my retirement investments and hindsight is 20/20)

You have a different market but your plus side is flawed thinking regardless of the market. Money is fungible.

birdman2003

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1558 on: April 17, 2018, 07:43:32 PM »
Another $5k slam to the principal.  Down to $94k remaining...

Money Badger

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1559 on: April 17, 2018, 08:38:49 PM »
dicey and boarder42, thank you for the (bit presumptive) comments, but all's well and the plan to kill the mortgage is firmly intact.   Your counter-arguments to remain indebted add to my inspiration to kill the mortgage this year.   It has had almost zero tax benefit the past 2 years and will have zero tax benefit with the new tax law and standard deductions in 2018 tax year as well.    And thanks to plainjane for the comments that were indeed correct.   The house expenses didn't touch emergency funds and the tax bill payment was planned/saved in advance.   Just a large chunk to drop in a particular month out of normal cash flow (and the small side account for taxes) leaving little to pay down the mortgage is all.   Still on track to be free in July (and looking forward to figuring out how to change my username to something like... "free4ever"! ;-)

frizzywhiskers

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1560 on: April 17, 2018, 09:53:49 PM »
dicey and boarder42, thank you for the (bit presumptive) comments, but all's well and the plan to kill the mortgage is firmly intact.   Your counter-arguments to remain indebted add to my inspiration to kill the mortgage this year.   It has had almost zero tax benefit the past 2 years and will have zero tax benefit with the new tax law and standard deductions in 2018 tax year as well.    And thanks to plainjane for the comments that were indeed correct.   The house expenses didn't touch emergency funds and the tax bill payment was planned/saved in advance.   Just a large chunk to drop in a particular month out of normal cash flow (and the small side account for taxes) leaving little to pay down the mortgage is all.   Still on track to be free in July (and looking forward to figuring out how to change my username to something like... "free4ever"! ;-)

Yes!  Cheers to Freedom 2018! :-)

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1561 on: April 18, 2018, 01:53:14 AM »
dicey and boarder42, thank you for the (bit presumptive) comments, but all's well and the plan to kill the mortgage is firmly intact.   Your counter-arguments to remain indebted add to my inspiration to kill the mortgage this year.   It has had almost zero tax benefit the past 2 years and will have zero tax benefit with the new tax law and standard deductions in 2018 tax year as well.    And thanks to plainjane for the comments that were indeed correct.   The house expenses didn't touch emergency funds and the tax bill payment was planned/saved in advance.   Just a large chunk to drop in a particular month out of normal cash flow (and the small side account for taxes) leaving little to pay down the mortgage is all.   Still on track to be free in July (and looking forward to figuring out how to change my username to something like... "free4ever"! ;-)
Speaking only for myself, congratulations! At least the discussion got you to think about it, which is a good thing.

Blindsquirrel

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1562 on: April 18, 2018, 03:04:10 PM »
    I wrote a check for the final balance on our mortgage last week. It is a very, very good feeling to have that expense gone. Will not carry that monthly expense in retirement.

Trifele

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1563 on: April 18, 2018, 05:32:13 PM »
    I wrote a check for the final balance on our mortgage last week. It is a very, very good feeling to have that expense gone. Will not carry that monthly expense in retirement.

Congrats Blindsquirrel! 

DreamFIRE

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1564 on: April 18, 2018, 07:14:20 PM »
    I wrote a check for the final balance on our mortgage last week. It is a very, very good feeling to have that expense gone. Will not carry that monthly expense in retirement.

Congratulations!  I've paid off two mortgages over my career.  Both were quite a long time ago when rates were in the 7 to 9% range, and I was still better off sticking with the standard deduction, so there was no tax deduction, either.  It's definitely a great feeling getting those paid off.  My savings rate has been quite high almost every year since paying off my house.

Money Badger

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1565 on: April 19, 2018, 06:29:38 AM »
Way to go Blindsquirrel!!   Well on your way to Handlebar ‘stache level savings and investing now.  ;-)

Blindsquirrel

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1566 on: April 20, 2018, 02:51:46 PM »
    Thanks a ton for the nice thoughts and very warm feels. For me it is the financially sound thing to do as it freed up $1265 a month in mandatory spending. This pay off is to reduce tail end risk. The Big Ern who is a very astute fellow makes quite good cases for my deed of paying off my mortgage. Not only that, we have gone crazy and paid off our rental properties as well! The horror! The Angst? The sleeping like a baby feeling is pretty damn good.

https://earlyretirementnow.com/2017/10/11/the-ultimate-guide-to-safe-withdrawal-rates-part-21-mortgage-in-retirement/

Also, I was definitely awoken by the mortgage vs bonds argument  which I found a great read.

 https://earlyretirementnow.com/2016/11/02/why-would-anyone-have-a-mortgage-and-a-bond-portfolio/

Thanks again and keep on trucking, interest is what you should receive, not pay!

Bateaux

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1567 on: April 21, 2018, 06:55:51 AM »
It's as if you drove a wooden stake into B42's heart.

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1568 on: April 21, 2018, 07:03:54 AM »
It's as if you drove a wooden stake into B42's heart.
WTF? If this statement came from someone less respected, it might be face punch worthy. Care to elaborate, Bateaux?

tomsang

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1569 on: April 21, 2018, 09:23:43 AM »
    Thanks a ton for the nice thoughts and very warm feels. For me it is the financially sound thing to do as it freed up $1265 a month in mandatory spending. This pay off is to reduce tail end risk. The Big Ern who is a very astute fellow makes quite good cases for my deed of paying off my mortgage. Not only that, we have gone crazy and paid off our rental properties as well! The horror! The Angst? The sleeping like a baby feeling is pretty damn good.

https://earlyretirementnow.com/2017/10/11/the-ultimate-guide-to-safe-withdrawal-rates-part-21-mortgage-in-retirement/

Also, I was definitely awoken by the mortgage vs bonds argument  which I found a great read.

 https://earlyretirementnow.com/2016/11/02/why-would-anyone-have-a-mortgage-and-a-bond-portfolio/

Thanks again and keep on trucking, interest is what you should receive, not pay!

Have you calculated how many extra years you have added to your FIRE date?  Would you be retired if you invested vs. paid off your low interest fixed rate mortgages?  Anyone paying down their mortgage early over the past decade has taken a large financial hit. Everyone who is accumulating wealth over the US history has been better off investing vs paying off a sub 4% mortgage.

Did you read the article that was imbedded in the link that you posted?  https://earlyretirementnow.com/2016/12/28/seven-reasons-in-defense-of-debt-and-leverage/

Blindsquirrel

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1570 on: April 21, 2018, 09:26:34 AM »
     I was not trying to wee in any ones Wheaties with the post but a mortgage can make Sequence of Return Risk (SoRR) a pretty scary risk that you really do need to consider and hedge against. When you have good sized mandatory withdrawals from a declining portfolio, the process is has been termed Dollar Cost Ravaging :) and not something that you want. Markets will always recover but it may not happen quickly enough to fix your mauled stash.

  There can also be solid reasons to keep fixed rate debt in retirement. If real estate craters, and you can't pay the mortgage, go to foreclosure,  the bank eats 80% of the loss and you only eat 20% of the loss at 80% LTV. A "win" for you.  Also, a big fixed rate mortgage can also serve as a giant synthetic short position on the US $. If inflation gets very high, you can pay off your crib in future dollars that are worth a heck of a lot less than the big fat pre-inflation $ the bank initially leant you. To each his own I say but leverage has caused an awful lot more bankruptcy and strife than a paid off house has ever caused a family. Peace

Blindsquirrel

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1571 on: April 21, 2018, 12:14:38 PM »
  Yep I read the link and agree with quite a bit of it, like I said to each his own. It is purely a risk management decision.

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1572 on: April 21, 2018, 12:55:31 PM »
  Yep I read the link and agree with quite a bit of it, like I said to each his own. It is purely a risk management decision.
Respectfully disagree again, Bs. It is purely an emotional decision if one makes it without fully understanding what they are giving up in the long run. Don't understand inflation, leverage, or sequence of returns? Leaving money on the table in terms of employer match or tax-advantaged savings? Then you do not understand risk management. Don't prepay a cent on your cheap-ass, affordable, fixed-rate mortgage until you do. Simple. Educate yourself. Don't make important decisions based on "feelings". Or do. Just know it will take longer and require more hard-earned green soldiers to get to FI if you do. Who wants that?

boarder42

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1573 on: April 21, 2018, 01:06:31 PM »
  Yep I read the link and agree with quite a bit of it, like I said to each his own. It is purely a risk management decision.

And until the day you paid it off fully you were at a higher state of risk than having invested vs paying down. So you looked at the risk. Were emotionally afraid of being in a riskier financial spot and actively chose the riskier path.  I mean that's if it was even evaluated from a risk standpoint
 
I mean the only semi risk of a non paid off house is sequence of returns. (hyper deflation also but this destroys the current economy so it's highly improbable). When acruing wealth sequence of returns is not a risk with an real weight. Post FIRE it carries more weight but is more a product of your life expectancy than anything else. Anyone retiring sub 50 easily needs to curb logevity risk instead of sequence of return based on historical metrics.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 02:34:38 PM by boarder42 »

Blindsquirrel

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1574 on: April 21, 2018, 03:41:54 PM »
 I am 50 years old so I meet the requirement to pay off the dadgum house. :).

boarder42

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1575 on: April 21, 2018, 04:16:00 PM »
I am 50 years old so I meet the requirement to pay off the dadgum house. :).

Betting on a shorter life. To each their own I guess.

tomsang

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1576 on: April 21, 2018, 06:31:38 PM »
If you want to calculate how much it has hurt you, by paying off your mortgage, you can use this calculator.

Here is the S&P 500 calculator with dividends:
https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 06:36:21 PM by tomsang »

Bateaux

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1577 on: April 21, 2018, 08:16:31 PM »
It's as if you drove a wooden stake into B42's heart.
WTF? If this statement came from someone less respected, it might be face punch worthy. Care to elaborate, Bateaux?

He's going to come out and prove mathematically that it's less profitable to pay off the mortgage.     I mean no malice to the spreadsheet gurus.

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1578 on: April 21, 2018, 11:12:54 PM »
It's as if you drove a wooden stake into B42's heart.
WTF? If this statement came from someone less respected, it might be face punch worthy. Care to elaborate, Bateaux?

He's going to come out and prove mathematically that it's less profitable to pay off the mortgage.     I mean no malice to the spreadsheet gurus.
And how does that drive a stake through his heart, exactly? If you didn't mean malice, what did you mean, please?

jedsbud

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1579 on: April 22, 2018, 02:13:19 PM »
Tomorrow is going to be a glorious day.  The wire instructions for my mortgage payoff are all set.  I have/had a 5/1 ARM 30 Year that has served me well as interest rates crashed and remained low for the last 13 years.  A couple of years ago I got serious about paying down my mortgage or not paying it down.  Did all the math on refinancing to a fixed rate mortgage and investing the extra I was paying or just paying it off and the end difference was nothing more than a rounding error.  Therefore, paying it off became the goal.
 
I was tracking my debt and enjoyed watching the number drop every month.  Then Harvey happened and basically everything was lost.  There are multiple things that helped me recover and to be at this point today.  First, I had flood insurance, many people I knew didn’t but I am thankful I made that decision years ago.  Second, I already had a decent savings rate so I was in a better position than most of my neighbors.  Third, I had a great amount of support from family and friends primarily from church and my faith never waivered even when I finally succumbed to the reality about two weeks after the water receded.   Fourth, I have been blessed with a great job and the highest paid bonus of my life, which has put me in this position today.
 
It’s time to put that mortgage money to work.  I will invest some, but I also need to give back more.  This freedom is hard to calculate on a spreadsheet and it can’t be measured on an expected investment return for the future. 

Aug 2016 - $192K in Mortgage Debt
Aug 2017 - $88K in Mortgage Debt
Sep 2017 - Harvey
May 2018 – Freedom
Full disclosure: I had a home for my oldest son to live in for college that was sold in May of 2017 reducing $71K in debt. 


Bateaux

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1580 on: April 22, 2018, 08:08:39 PM »
It's as if you drove a wooden stake into B42's heart.
WTF? If this statement came from someone less respected, it might be face punch worthy. Care to elaborate, Bateaux?

He's going to come out and prove mathematically that it's less profitable to pay off the mortgage.     I mean no malice to the spreadsheet gurus.
And how does that drive a stake through his heart, exactly? If you didn't mean malice, what did you mean, please?

Dicey I was just being an asshole.

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1581 on: April 22, 2018, 09:37:02 PM »
It's as if you drove a wooden stake into B42's heart.
WTF? If this statement came from someone less respected, it might be face punch worthy. Care to elaborate, Bateaux?

He's going to come out and prove mathematically that it's less profitable to pay off the mortgage.     I mean no malice to the spreadsheet gurus.
And how does that drive a stake through his heart, exactly? If you didn't mean malice, what did you mean, please?

Dicey I was just being an asshole.
Oh, Bateaux, I totally call bullshit on that! You're never an asshole. I also do not keep up with anything Vampire, so I really didn't understand. The consequences of a low televised entertainment diet, I guess.

BlueHouse

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1582 on: April 27, 2018, 02:08:00 PM »
It's as if you drove a wooden stake into B42's heart.
WTF? If this statement came from someone less respected, it might be face punch worthy. Care to elaborate, Bateaux?

He's going to come out and prove mathematically that it's less profitable to pay off the mortgage.     I mean no malice to the spreadsheet gurus.
And how does that drive a stake through his heart, exactly? If you didn't mean malice, what did you mean, please?

oh FFS, Dicey, boarder42, others who don't want to pay off the mortgage, can you please just leave this thread?  You've been asked multiple times and you always come back with the same reason:  people don't understand the numbers.  Yes, WE UNDERSTAND.  WE ARE NOT FUCKING MORONS.   Seriously?  Someone pays off their largest expense and the response is to put them down?  Please allow people to make choices even if they are not the choices you would make.  STOP with all of your unsolicited advice.  This is a celebration thread and you're throwing cold water on all of us.   

I'm so tired of people being having to be polite to you guys even after you tell them how stupid they are.  There are perfectly good financial reasons to pay off a mortgage and we've explained it to you over and over and over again.  And you think that any emotional reason is not as important as a financial reason.  But you know what's so interesting to me?  you two (Boarder and Dicey) both have no fear of losing your homes because Dicey's is paid off and Boarder has rich parents that will loan him money such that sequence of returns doesn't impact him as much as it would others who still have that risk.  Lucky for you two!  Now get off the backs of everyone else while we try to get to a spot where we feel comfortable with our level of risk.   

I know I'm being somewhat harsh and Dicey will probably turn me in to the internet police (again), but I'm sick and tired of you guys condescending to everyone over here.  You've been asked to leave previously, so why won't you just go?  It's really gotten under my skin.  BTW, an appropriate response to this is to keep quiet and leave, not to lecture me about risk. 


Still Being

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1583 on: April 27, 2018, 02:43:08 PM »
MOD NOTE:

This thread is for celebrating mortgage payoffs.

Not for debating if one should pay off a mortgage, or not.

All posts regarding the merits of paying off a mortgage are off topic. Please find another, more appropriate thread to post these arguments in.

Cheers!


Livethedream

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1584 on: April 28, 2018, 08:06:43 PM »
Back on topic!

We just paid $45k towards our loan, new balance of $93k! Just got some other good news that my wife’s family business is sitting on some extra cash and looking to distribute it, might scrape up some cash and try to pay it off next month.

Started 10/24/16 @ 187k.

boarder42

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1585 on: April 29, 2018, 05:59:13 AM »
It's as if you drove a wooden stake into B42's heart.
WTF? If this statement came from someone less respected, it might be face punch worthy. Care to elaborate, Bateaux?

He's going to come out and prove mathematically that it's less profitable to pay off the mortgage.     I mean no malice to the spreadsheet gurus.
And how does that drive a stake through his heart, exactly? If you didn't mean malice, what did you mean, please?

oh FFS, Dicey, boarder42, others who don't want to pay off the mortgage, can you please just leave this thread?  You've been asked multiple times and you always come back with the same reason:  people don't understand the numbers.  Yes, WE UNDERSTAND.  WE ARE NOT FUCKING MORONS.   Seriously?  Someone pays off their largest expense and the response is to put them down?  Please allow people to make choices even if they are not the choices you would make.  STOP with all of your unsolicited advice.  This is a celebration thread and you're throwing cold water on all of us.   

I'm so tired of people being having to be polite to you guys even after you tell them how stupid they are.  There are perfectly good financial reasons to pay off a mortgage and we've explained it to you over and over and over again.  And you think that any emotional reason is not as important as a financial reason.  But you know what's so interesting to me?  you two (Boarder and Dicey) both have no fear of losing your homes because Dicey's is paid off and Boarder has rich parents that will loan him money such that sequence of returns doesn't impact him as much as it would others who still have that risk.  Lucky for you two!  Now get off the backs of everyone else while we try to get to a spot where we feel comfortable with our level of risk.   

I know I'm being somewhat harsh and Dicey will probably turn me in to the internet police (again), but I'm sick and tired of you guys condescending to everyone over here.  You've been asked to leave previously, so why won't you just go?  It's really gotten under my skin.  BTW, an appropriate response to this is to keep quiet and leave, not to lecture me about risk.

You probably should stop referncing my name and referencing my posts here if you just want it to be celebratory. And for the record not everyone gets the math as you say. You can finds multiple posts in here where people are giving their reason for paying down their mortgage and the reason clearly indicates they do not understand and the paying down of a mortgage actually increases the risk they are claiming to mitigate. 

And you clearly do not understand the math bc the contingency of my parents possibly helping out is a reason that would mitigate risk when payi g down a mortgage over investing. Those not paying down a mortgage are at much lower risk of financial failure which you clearly do not grasp.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 04:29:22 PM by boarder42 »

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1586 on: April 29, 2018, 08:47:19 PM »
I'm not going to quote BH's comments directly. Rather, here are excerpts from my last few posts on this thread. Can we bury the hatchet, please?

Congrats, frizzy!
Ditto [snip]
Well done!
[snip]
Love ^this^. Congratulations, SS!

Today our mortgage is $54,960. Below $55k! [snip]
Congratulations!

just wired in the final $48K today to reduce the mortgage balance to...$0...
Holy cow, that's a lot of money! Good for you! FIRE must not be far away.


 

couponvan

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1587 on: April 30, 2018, 04:55:08 AM »
I'm not going to quote BH's comments directly. Rather, here are excerpts from my last few posts on this thread. Can we bury the hatchet, please?

Congrats, frizzy!
Ditto [snip]
Well done!
[snip]
Love ^this^. Congratulations, SS!

Today our mortgage is $54,960. Below $55k! [snip]
Congratulations!

just wired in the final $48K today to reduce the mortgage balance to...$0...
Holy cow, that's a lot of money! Good for you! FIRE must not be far away.

Good job saving anywhere everyone! It’s a personal decision even MMM has made to payoff the mortgage. There’s shockingly simple math, and then there’s reality, laziness,  and foresight/hindsight and lots of guessing and second guessing because “past returns are not guaranteed”. 

Trifele

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1588 on: April 30, 2018, 04:56:13 AM »
Dicey, you are being very disingenous.  You are cherry picking some congratulations comments to try to disguise your true intentions:

This is a US-based site, so we are endeavoring to help the majority of readers make the most optimal decisions to reach FIRE faster. And yes, the message bears repeating, every few pages or so. Thanks for noticing.

This is a celebration thread, period.  Your 'message' is not wanted on this thread, so please -- just take it elsewhere.

boarder42

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1589 on: April 30, 2018, 07:05:21 AM »
Dicey, you are being very disingenous.  You are cherry picking some congratulations comments to try to disguise your true intentions:

This is a US-based site, so we are endeavoring to help the majority of readers make the most optimal decisions to reach FIRE faster. And yes, the message bears repeating, every few pages or so. Thanks for noticing.

This is a celebration thread, period.  Your 'message' is not wanted on this thread, so please -- just take it elsewhere.

so if there was a celebration thread about eating lunch out every day b/c you know it makes sense b/c of the time it saves me - no one should comment there when people make blatantly incorrect statements - got it.. man has this site gone soft!

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1590 on: April 30, 2018, 07:07:15 AM »
Dicey, you are being very disingenous.  You are cherry picking some congratulations comments to try to disguise your true intentions:

This is a US-based site, so we are endeavoring to help the majority of readers make the most optimal decisions to reach FIRE faster. And yes, the message bears repeating, every few pages or so. Thanks for noticing.

This is a celebration thread, period.  Your 'message' is not wanted on this thread, so please -- just take it elsewhere.
Did you notice the comments quoted were made after ARS' mod note?

Curious that having supposed "true intentions" is somehow being negative. Isn't the whole damn point of MMM how to muster one's green soldiers for maximum effect? MMM is all about using a different approach to achieve the goal of FIRE.

This thread is in the General Discussion section. If someone started a topic crowing about their purchase of a brand new Tesla Model X, do you really believe the same "This is a celebration thread, period" warning would apply? I heard the mod's comment, and responded, but let's not forget we're all still on the MMM Forum.

Finally, I have mostly kept a low profile on this thread since the mid note, a calm which was shattered by BlueHouse.

iluvzbeach

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1591 on: April 30, 2018, 08:05:04 AM »
@arebelspy Can a mod please ask Dicey & boarder42 to, once again, stop posting in this thread? Their insistence at posting in it, even after being told not to, is getting really, really old.

birdman2003

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1592 on: April 30, 2018, 08:16:11 AM »
Another $4k hit to the principal balance, now under $90k!

frost7777

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1593 on: April 30, 2018, 08:23:43 AM »
To keep the celebration going, and to make sure our newest club members don't get lost in the noise...

Congratulations @jedsbud!  Enjoy your new found freedom and enjoy the possibilities that you now know are within reach.

@Livethedream, Great job getting your balance down to 5 digits.  Sounds like you have some big decisions to make if you are looking at potentially paying that mortgage off next month!

@birdman2003, you are flying through that principal.  (nothing like a bad pun to lighten things up)

Have a great day everyone.

verfrugal

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1594 on: April 30, 2018, 09:23:25 AM »
Woot!  I joined the club twice in the last three years!

For full disclosure, I own both of my houses outright.  One I bought in cash, the other I bought with a mortgage and paid off in just over a year.  I was lucky enough to sell a startup, so this was not a hardship nor did it require the kind of long-term dedication and perseverance that others have shown here.

When I was a teen, my family had our house foreclosed on.  This certainly makes the entire notion of owning a house an emotional issue for me, and I did NOT approach it in terms of optimizing financial outcomes, or the return I could have gotten from that money.  The first house is the one I live in with my wife.  The second one is a house I bought for my mother, and the family, in our hometown.  I was optimizing for peace of mind, and minimizing my monthly expenses -- aka health, resilience and security.

I knew the math -- I can guess how much I would have made had I put it into the market over the last couple years, WAY more than the 3.X interest rate on the two loans would have cost me in that time.  Would have recovered a chunk of the taxes I paid on that income, and it would still be growing now, faster than the market value of the two houses.

I knew it would add a year or two to my FIRE savings schedule.  But, I was planning working for a several more years anyways to ensure my team was established in the new company, and apparently to also build a new team and a new product!  Lastly, the golden handcuffs made it worthwhile to stick around.

It also made financial sense to diversify into real-estate, since all of my deferred compensation would be in stock.  Really tho, I don't consider the houses an investment.  I do consider it a diversification and risk mitigation -- and it comes with a pool!  Had I kept that money in the market, I would not get the diversification of assets.  The risk it mitigates is losing my income, our monthly nut, with both houses, is now smaller than DWs educator earnings.

I don't get the same satisfaction from looking at my VSTAX balance as I do from waking up in a house I own outright, and seeing my mother's face when she knows that she has a home for the rest of her life to enjoy with the grandkids, and that it can be passed down to them without a bank involved, and with only property tax and insurance to keep up with.  I'm going to set up a trust to handle that soon.

I know that the value of that to me is significantly higher than the opportunity cost.  That's why I did it.

There is also the value of not having debt, in terms of flexibility in how I live, where I live, and how I spend my time and mental energy.  Those are very valuable to me, and directly relate to my mental health, and thus my physical health.  My sensitivity to that may well be a result of the childhood trauma of losing a house, but it is part of who I am.  Hah! I guess I'm doing some exposure therapy for that, with the short mortgage I had, and now I am opening a HELOC as a supplemental emergency fund.

Anyways, that's why I was so happy to join the club, twice 8^)

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1595 on: April 30, 2018, 09:58:12 AM »
Woot!  I joined the club twice in the last three years!

For full disclosure, I own both of my houses outright.  One I bought in cash, the other I bought with a mortgage and paid off in just over a year.  I was lucky enough to sell a startup, so this was not a hardship nor did it require the kind of long-term dedication and perseverance that others have shown here.

When I was a teen, my family had our house foreclosed on.  This certainly makes the entire notion of owning a house an emotional issue for me, and I did NOT approach it in terms of optimizing financial outcomes, or the return I could have gotten from that money.  The first house is the one I live in with my wife.  The second one is a house I bought for my mother, and the family, in our hometown.  I was optimizing for peace of mind, and minimizing my monthly expenses -- aka health, resilience and security.

I knew the math -- I can guess how much I would have made had I put it into the market over the last couple years, WAY more than the 3.X interest rate on the two loans would have cost me in that time.  Would have recovered a chunk of the taxes I paid on that income, and it would still be growing now, faster than the market value of the two houses.

I knew it would add a year or two to my FIRE savings schedule.  But, I was planning working for a several more years anyways to ensure my team was established in the new company, and apparently to also build a new team and a new product!  Lastly, the golden handcuffs made it worthwhile to stick around.

It also made financial sense to diversify into real-estate, since all of my deferred compensation would be in stock.  Really tho, I don't consider the houses an investment.  I do consider it a diversification and risk mitigation -- and it comes with a pool!  Had I kept that money in the market, I would not get the diversification of assets.  The risk it mitigates is losing my income, our monthly nut, with both houses, is now smaller than DWs educator earnings.

I don't get the same satisfaction from looking at my VSTAX balance as I do from waking up in a house I own outright, and seeing my mother's face when she knows that she has a home for the rest of her life to enjoy with the grandkids, and that it can be passed down to them without a bank involved, and with only property tax and insurance to keep up with.  I'm going to set up a trust to handle that soon.

I know that the value of that to me is significantly higher than the opportunity cost.  That's why I did it.

There is also the value of not having debt, in terms of flexibility in how I live, where I live, and how I spend my time and mental energy.  Those are very valuable to me, and directly relate to my mental health, and thus my physical health.  My sensitivity to that may well be a result of the childhood trauma of losing a house, but it is part of who I am.  Hah! I guess I'm doing some exposure therapy for that, with the short mortgage I had, and now I am opening a HELOC as a supplemental emergency fund.

Anyways, that's why I was so happy to join the club, twice 8^)
Congratulations,verfrugal! I think your reasoning is very sound, given your circumstances. In fact, double congratulations!!

arebelspy

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1596 on: April 30, 2018, 10:27:06 AM »
MOD NOTE:

This thread is for celebrating mortgage payoffs.

Not for debating if one should pay off a mortgage, or not.

All posts regarding the merits of paying off a mortgage are off topic. Please find another, more appropriate thread to post these arguments in.

Cheers!


The above remains the case. Posts made arguing about whether or not you should pay off a mortgage will henceforth be deleted and result in temporary bans.

Feel free to post in other threads about why paying off the mortgage is mathematically sub-optimal. This thread one is for people who understand it may be sub-optimal, but are doing it anyways, and celebrating their paying down debt.

Please report any such posts violating this. Cheers!
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BlueHouse

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1597 on: April 30, 2018, 12:07:38 PM »
Woot!  I joined the club twice in the last three years!

...

There is also the value of not having debt, in terms of flexibility in how I live, where I live, and how I spend my time and mental energy.  Those are very valuable to me, and directly relate to my mental health, and thus my physical health.  My sensitivity to that may well be a result of the childhood trauma of losing a house, but it is part of who I am.  Hah! I guess I'm doing some exposure therapy for that, with the short mortgage I had, and now I am opening a HELOC as a supplemental emergency fund.

...

Anyways, that's why I was so happy to join the club, twice 8^)

Congratulations @verfrugal!  That is extremely motivating to me.  I, too, am using my personal and rental residence as a way to diversify.  I don't invest in REITs, so my vast property holdings (all one and a half of them) represent that portion of my portfolio.  I'm also trying to reduce expenses post-FIRE, so I can avoid capital gains taxes in some years (I know it won't be possible every year).

On a personal note, congratulations on being able to take care of your mom.  Great karma right there!  :) 

couponvan

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1598 on: April 30, 2018, 12:21:47 PM »
Another $4k hit to the principal balance, now under $90k!

Great job! It's in the sub $100K now where things start to pick up speed.

Trifele

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1599 on: May 01, 2018, 04:40:04 AM »
Another $4k hit to the principal balance, now under $90k!

Great job! It's in the sub $100K now where things start to pick up speed.

Yep!  And when the balance gets lower you start to find ways to pay it off even quicker!  Great job Birdman!